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    Will Zero claim Yuuki?

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    juliet
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    Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by juliet on Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:05 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    How do you see Zero and his intentions towards Yuuki? do you believe that he has quit hopping or is he going to claim her? because i do not see him doing anything about it more than perhaps silently being there...how do you estimate his current intentions?






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    VampireCythia
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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by VampireCythia on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:10 pm

    juliet wrote:
    nina wrote:
    Vanille-chan wrote:Sorry, Nina, but although your arguments are based, they are insufficient to solve the LT. You just selected scenes that best describe what you think and you are ignoring the reverse. So far, all the Zeki scenes are canceled through Yume scenes and the reverse also occurs. Matsuri always is creating new ways to keep the old triangle.

    Good arguments, but not enough to know the final decision.

    I bet if I bring another 10 examples won’t make any difference. But anyway my intention wasn’t to solve the LT but to show that some of the past ambiguities are starting to clear up by the NEW developments. That’s the point of progressing a story …


    Actually I think the same as you example Hino used that phrase just now "finally a flower that blooms only for you" so how is she going to move it back and forth again by canceling her own progress and presenting Yuuki's feelings as uncertain while the latest chapters have at lest for the yume court clarified the ambiguity of the past?

    And from Zero's side there are also other declarations that he made such as the moment she took his blood and there was no further revelation or taste of his feelings for her. I can understand that he loves her, but perhaps no more romantically to claim her or even get himself in the trouble of doing so...but if he still has passionate feelings about her then how Hino is going to excuse again the fact that Yuuki tasted nothing more in his blood as Zero was tasting her feelings for Kaname during the first arc? I do not know, it does not make sense and the above scene did not gave out the expected passion.

    Anyway, to get back to the subject, I think that Zero is standing still mainly because he is not interested that much in her with the "eros" aspect, either wise he would try to make a move and see how Yuuki stands in relation to him now that he is free, alive, safe and Kaname is absent.

    But I do not see him moving towards that direction at least for now (aka testing the waters to see). If Hino however intends to put him through this, I think that she should not delay this anymore, because the script loses its touch and its magic. Example what Aido said to him in the carriage; "If i were you, i would keep at it no matter how many times it took...to steal her away", where Zero even silences. Perhaps his feelings are not that high to drive his actions? do not know, but what's stopping him right now has the form of total acceptance for who Yuuki is and with whom she is with and also of his own feelings that after a year seem to have relaxed.


    There is something i must disagree about. When Yuuki did drink Zero´s blood she didn´t see anything because he didn´t want her to see it. When Yuuki did begin to see inside Zero´s memories and feelings. He pushed her out. When he said: "Don´t pry into my mind" Yuuki finally did realize she should pull away. She hadn´t merly sat her food into his mind before she get pushed out. And if she had tasted any of his feelings she would have made comments about in her thoughts. And I have theory about that Vampires feel and see memories and feelings better when they not hungry. If they only do it for the passion they can better see it. And I think that Zero was able to sense Yuuki feelings despite being hungry was because he did get alot more than Yuuki did in that bite scene. I don´t believe any of this "He hasen´t any feelings for her anymore because she didn´t see anything in his blood" before we get a proper bitting scene that actually shows it. When he actually don´t push her out of his mind. But that´s just my opion Smile xD

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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by Vanille-chan on Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:35 pm


    I bet if I bring another 10 examples won’t make any difference. But anyway my intention wasn’t to solve the LT but to show that some of the past ambiguities are starting to clear up by the NEW developments. That’s the point of progressing a story …


    Actually, I did not want to be rude. It´s just my personal perception. I believe there are 10 Yume scenes and Matsuri create 10 Zeki scenes again.

    ""finally a flower that blooms only for you""
    -This phrase refers to a past moment. Later, this beautiful flower came to be confusing and uttered this thought (chap 73):

    "If you leave me, I want you to kill me. This way, Kaname keep me at his side" - I really feel confused, cruel. The same flower who was blooming for him, it was thinking that way in the following chapters.

    I really think Matsuri is tied to a chair and this story is written by two people: a Yume fan and a Zeki fan.

    Yuki could have actually restarted with Kaname at this time. But it was stopped.

    Zero ... it is possible that her restarted with him (friendship or love) will be stopped too, considering S´s action.

    There is a mirror on Zeki / Yume. And Y´s words are easily contestable in both cases. Matsuri is good in her role: she is still keeping the LT. I do not see a clear solution and all the arguments pointing in one direction are disrupted by other arguments. The only difference is whether you are a Zeki or Yume. You will see what you want. Because Matsuri gives arguments for both sides.

    So while Yuki continues to look like a ping-pong ball ... this question is still open....Y_____________Y

    But, I really want to know what´s Kaname´s plan ... I think this LT so freak...

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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by Anneliezz on Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:54 pm

    juliet wrote: do not know, but what's stopping him right now has the form of total acceptance for who Yuuki is and with whom she is with and also of his own feelings that after a year seem to have relaxed.


    Not involving the triangle here^^ but I do think he loves her enough (and by now it seems that he has accepted her too), but that won't make sure he makes a move.
    For the reason why not, I agree with the points the others made
    - She is still Kaname's fiancee
    - He doesn't know that she has feelings for him (Please Im not intending this as an LT argument, but more in the way that he doesnt even have the slightest idea that it could be)
    - Even if she loves zero (wich I'm not going to discuss), she loves kaname too. He knows that, and he accepted that even when she was a human.
    - He thinks he's not good enough for her.
    - He want's to keep his distance to not get hurt( again)
    -....

    So a lot of reasons are because how he thinks of himself, and because of his character. But also because he loves her. And because he doesn't know she cares..There are more reasons, but I want to keep this short( And I think these are the most important.) Ofcourse I can't look into zero's mind (if only I could Razz) So I can never be sure, but there's evidence in the manga for these statements.


    Ps: Sorry for repeating over and over again I don't intend any Lt discussion Razz maybe it's annoying but most of the times I rather keep out of these discussions since they lead to nothing...

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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by juliet on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:38 pm

    I don´t believe any of this "He hasen´t any feelings for her anymore because she didn´t see anything in his blood" before we get a proper bitting scene that actually shows it. When he actually don´t push her out of his mind. But that´s just my opion xD

    M...yes and the fact that she actually did not intend to look into his mind or even stated a curiosity or had a second thought about it, after the bite (if she had any interest in it) does not seem strange at all to you?

    (I do not mean to drag it but since you bring it up as a point, I wanted to say that there are more indication that lean towards the friendship mode case, for now at least)...okay anyway we are never going to agree on this I know it beforehand but can not resist Razz ...

    and another question in general: the phrase "a rose that only blooms for you" how would it have been perceived by the Zeki side if it was stated for Zero?

    Is that a strong sign at this point/phase of the manga, Yuuki's emotions and feelings are given to Kaname?

    No, no one seriously can not exclude the LT of the discussion, its understandable.

    What we miss though so far is Zero's struggle to keep Yuuki or make an extra effort to bring her closer and close the bridge that exists between them in the romantic/sense aspect, not hiding anymore any intention. But the distance between him and Kaname just becomes bigger in this way.

    - She is still Kaname's fiancee
    - He doesn't know that she has feelings for him (Please Im not intending this as an LT argument, but more in the way that he doesnt even have the slightest idea that it could be)
    - Even if she loves zero (wich I'm not going to discuss), she loves kaname too. He knows that, and he accepted that even when she was a human.
    - He thinks he's not good enough for her.
    - He want's to keep his distance to not get hurt( again)

    I believe that there are these reasons and perhaps many more (the fact that he is a hunter and has not yet made his final truce with the pureblood kind) but if he just sticks to all these reasons then he is reasoning "love", love can not be reasoned (meaning from a realistic point of view) when you really want somebody you have to make that leap of faith because there is no option left for you to keep him/her either wise as long as you have the opportunity.

    But if all of these reasons and logical arguments are enough to hold you back then apparently they can overcome feelings.

    This is why I said that Zero's feelings have relaxed, because its not that passion that would make him loss sense, he is keeping quite composed and that's honoring him in a way, but does that benefit his position in the LT as a hero in action? or it softens his character in a way that if later his feelings woke up and burst out it will be unrealistic?

    I see that Hino offers now to the readers the option to accept that Zero's feelings have decreased because that's how she mainly potrays him now (by saying that he only has few memories, thats its okay, that he offers his blood and that's also a confirmation because how would he know if he could control his feelings or no?) and its an adequate reason for not claiming Yuuki whereas the reverse, according to my opinion, creates "gaps".

    As a reader I would be very annoyed going back and forth all the time with Yuuki not meaning a thing and Zero not meaning a thing.

    Okay I think I said enough about the issue...already.








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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by Anneliezz on Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:56 pm

    juliet wrote:
    I don´t believe any of this "He hasen´t any feelings for her anymore because she didn´t see anything in his blood" before we get a proper bitting scene that actually shows it. When he actually don´t push her out of his mind. But that´s just my opion xD

    M...yes and the fact that she actually did not intend to look into his mind or even stated a curiosity or had a second thought about it, after the bite (if she had any interest in it) does not seem strange at all to you?

    (I do not mean to drag it but since you bring it up as a point, I wanted to say that there are more indication that lean towards the friendship mode case, for now at least)...okay anyway we are never going to agree on this I know it beforehand but can not resist Razz ...

    and another question in general: the phrase "a rose that only blooms for you" how would it have been perceived by the Zeki side if it was stated for Zero?

    Is that a strong sign at this point/phase of the manga, Yuuki's emotions and feelings are given to Kaname?

    No, no one seriously can not exclude the LT of the discussion, its understandable.

    What we miss though so far is Zero's struggle to keep Yuuki or make an extra effort to bring her closer and close the bridge that exists between them in the romantic/sense aspect, not hiding anymore any intention. But the distance between him and Kaname just becomes bigger in this way.

    - She is still Kaname's fiancee
    - He doesn't know that she has feelings for him (Please Im not intending this as an LT argument, but more in the way that he doesnt even have the slightest idea that it could be)
    - Even if she loves zero (wich I'm not going to discuss), she loves kaname too. He knows that, and he accepted that even when she was a human.
    - He thinks he's not good enough for her.
    - He want's to keep his distance to not get hurt( again)

    I believe that there are these reasons and perhaps many more (the fact that he is a hunter and has not yet made his final truce with the pureblood kind) but if he just sticks to all these reasons then he is reasoning "love", love can not be reasoned (meaning from a realistic point of view) when you really want somebody you have to make that leap of faith because there is no option left for you to keep him/her either wise as long as you have the opportunity.

    But if all of these reasons and logical arguments are enough to hold you back then apparently they can overcome feelings.

    This is why I said that Zero's feelings have relaxed, because its not that passion that would make him loss sense, he is keeping quite composed and that's honoring him in a way, but does that benefit his position in the LT as a hero in action? or it softens his character in a way that if later his feelings woke up and burst out it will be unrealistic?

    I see that Hino offers now to the readers the option to accept that Zero's feelings have decreased because that's how she mainly potrays him now (by saying that he only has few memories, thats its okay, that he offers his blood and that's also a confirmation because how would he know if he could control his feelings or no?) and its an adequate reason for not claiming Yuuki whereas the reverse, according to my opinion, creates "gaps".

    As a reader I would be very annoyed going back and forth all the time with Yuuki not meaning a thing and Zero not meaning a thing.

    Okay I think I said enough about the issue...already.



    Ok sorry for going on about it, since you said you've talked enough about it, but i'll keep it short^^

    Zero can't just go up to her and kiss her (Or something like that. Any other move that leads to this future, fits to my argument, but this is more clear).

    For all he knows, the only thing she feels for him is pity. If he'd do that, how would he respect (and thus love)her in any way?? (I don't wanna bring up the last arc ending, at that time he thought he was never going to see her again, he at least had to make his feelings clear once, and blahblah ....well, you get it Razz)

    That's why I said earlier on that it should be Yuuki to give him a hint. Then he would have the right to do it and to let all the other issues fade away. But right now he thinks she only loves K. Why would he involve himself in that if he has no hint at all? He's just keeping the little sense he has left, that doesn't neccesarily mean that he doesn't love her enough to make a move.

    What I mean with all of this, is that him making a move now, without any clue, would be unrealistic. But if he got a clue and then let his feelings take over, it would.

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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by juliet on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:22 am

    What I mean with all of this, is that him making a move now, without any clue, would be unrealistic. But if he got a clue and then let his feelings take over, it would.

    Yes, it would be but he could start with apologizing for example in order to open the way at least because this is what I mean with strong feelings that if his feelings were guiding his thoughts a very realistic attitude would be to soften his attitude towards her as Zero not as a hunter or a person responsible for the night class and the project (no more excuses). So at least from his side he would make a leap that would improve his position as a man to her eyes (especially because of the way they parted as you say), but Zero's stance is still difficult and unreachable to her.

    Even if he loves her what good is this behavior to him or her? or to say it better to the development of him as a character when he does nothing towards a romantic direction to improve himself and his chances? Is it only Yuuki? but when she goes to bite him, he is also saying that there is nothing more there than...so he presents her a cold result, we see no worry from his part if she is going to see anything or understand anything about his so called feelings, he feels assured of that. How far did he lied?

    Zero gives no real signs that deep down he still wishes to claim her, independently of Yuuki's stance, meaning him as a character who is supposed to have strong feelings about this girl.






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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by darkvampire on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:11 am

    I belive both Kaname and Zero have a fair chance to be with Yuki it is bit early to tell as Kaname isn't around right now and Zero is keeping his distance. Only time will tell

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    Re: Will Zero claim Yuuki?

    Post by Anneliezz on Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:58 pm

    juliet wrote:
    What I mean with all of this, is that him making a move now, without any clue, would be unrealistic. But if he got a clue and then let his feelings take over, it would.

    Yes, it would be but he could start with apologizing for example in order to open the way at least because this is what I mean with strong feelings that if his feelings were guiding his thoughts a very realistic attitude would be to soften his attitude towards her as Zero not as a hunter or a person responsible for the night class and the project (no more excuses). So at least from his side he would make a leap that would improve his position as a man to her eyes (especially because of the way they parted as you say), but Zero's stance is still difficult and unreachable to her.

    Even if he loves her what good is this behavior to him or her? or to say it better to the development of him as a character when he does nothing towards a romantic direction to improve himself and his chances? Is it only Yuuki? but when she goes to bite him, he is also saying that there is nothing more there than...so he presents her a cold result, we see no worry from his part if she is going to see anything or understand anything about his so called feelings, he feels assured of that. How far did he lied?

    Zero gives no real signs that deep down he still wishes to claim her, independently of Yuuki's stance, meaning him as a character who is supposed to have strong feelings about this girl.

    I understand what your saying: why isn't he making any move if he loves her. But what if he believes (due to the reasons that I've already mentioned), that no matter wich move he makes, there's no hope. Zero tends to think fatalistic like that.

    And not because of situations, but becaues of yuuki herself. Then I think Yuuki could give a hint, and then he would know there's at least a chance for him to try. If he had just no idea of how she felt, it would be worth the try(from his pov), but he thinks he has no chance. It's what he's always been thinking. He loves her, but thinks it won't turn out right anyways (btw: I's not what I'm thinking here, but what zero's thinking Razz)

    But I get where you're coming from. Zero doesn't say much, nor does much. But if we compare this chapter to the first chapter of the arc, there's a difference in behaviour. Maybe he's starting to hope after all Razz...

    I'm repeating myself here, but I wished Zero would just open his damn mouth ...It would help all of us a lot Razz

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