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      Kaname Sin

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      aya-chan
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      Kaname Sin

      Post by aya-chan on Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:12 pm

      First topic message reminder :

      This subject was discussed on another thread http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1079p40-vampire-knight-chapter-78-full-raws-first-translation#24325 and decided to make a topic about this matter, and my reply is as respons to caela.

      Spoiler:
      caela wrote:About what Zero is accusing Kaname of: If Zero was just accusing Kaname of messing/causing the hunter's twin curse, which happened thousands of years ago, I doubt there would be this much anger.

      Also, I doubt a Chinese translator would confuse "blood-line," "clan" and "family". These are all separate Japanese Kanji/Chinese characters.

      Zero is blaming the deaths of his parents, Ichiru's death and the forced change of Zero's from human to vampire, on Kaname.

      ********************************

      Is the accusation possible? As far as I am concerned, Kaname is smart enough to fool Shizuka. Also The girl was stuck in a cage for who knows how long. Its not like Shizuka was privy to all the latest information like Sara was.

      All I know is that, the entire time I have been on all-up, I have always questioned even Rido's physical ability to change the list (his motive isn't that great either). Who ever changed the list is probably the enemy of the purebloods and Kaname, to me, is still a candidate. I suppose that means Sara is also a possibility. Rido was never written with enough brains to be a real possibility.

      ********************************

      About Zero trying to save Yuuki from Kaname: I meant it in a moral sense. Yuuki and Zero's dynamic has always been conditional (as opposed to Yume's unconditional dynamic): Yuuki protected Zero because of her sense of justice, and Zero protected Yuuki because of his respect of that sense of justice (yes, other reasons as well....but focusing on one reason for both for a reason).

      Yuuki claims to be willing to be "tainted" by Kaname. So far, that statement of hers has not really been tested. If Yuuki accepts Kaname now, without verifying Zero's accusations as either true or false, it looks like Zero is willing to cut ties with Yuuki.

      Why I dissagree with kaname being the culprit behind zero's tragedy:

      I. For Kaname to be the real culprit for zero's tragedy, means for him - kaname - to predict with a 100%accuracy the following events:
      >>>shizuka to have a lover
      >>>to put shizuka's lover on hunter list
      >>>gave this mission to zero's parents
      >>>and shizuka reacting this way:
      • kill zero parents

      • turn zero into a vampire

      • taking care of ichiru

      • ichiru returns and he's badly wounded by rido

      • zero devour his brother and he became the most powerful hunter


      And let's be serious, is impossible to predict those things. Shizuka was a vampire in grief, she could react in many ways, such as:
      >>>turning both children in vampires in front of their parents and let the parents alive
      >>>killing both children in front of their parents and let the parents alive
      *a parent biggest pain is to lose their children
      >>>Turning both children in vampires and then killing the parents
      >>>killing both children and then killing the parents
      >>>to kill the parents and zero and keep ichiru as a vampire or human

      But shizuka turned zero into a vampire in front of his parents and later she killed them, and keep ichiru on her side.

      For zero to be turned into a vampire and shizuka keeping ichiru and later zero to devour his brother was a must for zero to become the most powerful hunter.

      For me this seems to be a gamble, and kaname doesn't gamble.
      Moreover, for kaname to alter hunting list meant for him to have power in hunters association, which we knows he did not have nor in the present.
      But we knows who had: rido. rido was hand in hand with asato and the last one was an accomplice with the former hunter president.

      In the worse case, kaname released shizuka from the cage - maybe he pitied her because she grew up into a cage for her whole life, and she did nothing to deserve that.

      Info from official fanbook

      >>>The Hio family has a history of members going berserk, so she was brought up into a cage. she also lost the one she loved, so she grew to have a peculiar sense of life and death

      >>>She was locked and confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. She began to love a man, but he was executed by vampire hunters. She goes berserk and with rage and sorrow and attacks her enemy, kiryu family.


      But what happened with her lover has nothing to do with kaname, as well her reaction to her lover death.

      II. Shizuka came into cross academy to gain kaname's blood in order to have the power to kill rido, the real culprit. After shizuka regained her senses she made her own investigation and according to that the real culprit is rido.
      Facts sustained by:
      >>>kaname chapter 19

      We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka - refference to rido - and continued in chapter 20

      I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.

      >>>Maria chapter 26

      There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.

      >>>Ichiru chapter 40

      I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.

      All these quotes, as a whole show rido as the real culprit.

      Why Zero shouted with so much passion, remains for us to find out in the upcomings chapters, but one thing I am sure: kaname is not the real culprit behind zero's tragedy.

      In my opinion the sin of kaname is the twin curse - and this is the goal of this thread.

      I doubt the curse was put on hunters after HW death. Initially Kaname had wanted to sacrifice his life, and obviously he did not intend to cast a curse upon them, and I doubt he did it after her sacrifice.

      Something must be behind that.

      If hunters ate another female pureblood - kaname past wife - who probably was pregnant, it makes sense for kaname to curse them. Eating her, lifes got lost, and the perfect punishment for them was for pregnant hunter women to lose a child/children as well.
      A life for a life.

      According to twin curse when a mother is pregnant with twins is a misscarriage or stillbirth - both children will die or only one will survive. - zero and ichiru case was a rarity.
      Facts sustained by kaname chapter 37

      This is the first time I've seen a pair of hunter twins who both are alive. It's rare so I...In the hunter lineage when a mother is pregnant with twins there usually is a miscarriage or a stillbirth...

      The fetuses aren't selfaware yet. Manipulated by instinct the two will devour each other in the mother wombs just like vampires.

      Kaname: Occasionally a twin fetus will devour the entire life and powers of the twin in the womb and be born into this world as one of the strongest and most depraved hunters.









      Last edited by aya-chan on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

      SassyKnight
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by SassyKnight on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:03 pm

      Rido is only alive within Kaname himself...that is why Kaname is a contradiction. The Rido part of him (who wanted Juri) now is possessive over Yuki so that side of him is awakening inside of Kaname. Rido wants Yuki so Kaname is finding it difficult to push her away. As Kaname has stated "A part of me wants to keep you for myself" or something similar to that ( i cant remember the exact line right off the top of my head, but it was similar)
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by juliet on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:19 pm

      SassyKnight wrote:Rido is only alive within Kaname himself...that is why Kaname is a contradiction. The Rido part of him (who wanted Juri) now is possessive over Yuki so that side of him is awakening inside of Kaname. Rido wants Yuki so Kaname is finding it difficult to push her away. As Kaname has stated "A part of me wants to keep you for myself" or something similar to that ( i cant remember the exact line right off the top of my head, but it was similar)

      Sassy how can that be? Kaname was always devoted to her, long before he kills Rido...remember all of his words-saying and worries even before Rido?






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      Knightmare
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Knightmare on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:54 pm

      juliet wrote:
      SassyKnight wrote:Rido is only alive within Kaname himself...that is why Kaname is a contradiction. The Rido part of him (who wanted Juri) now is possessive over Yuki so that side of him is awakening inside of Kaname. Rido wants Yuki so Kaname is finding it difficult to push her away. As Kaname has stated "A part of me wants to keep you for myself" or something similar to that ( i cant remember the exact line right off the top of my head, but it was similar)

      Sassy how can that be? Kaname was always devoted to her, long before he kills Rido...remember all of his words-saying and worries even before Rido?

      well, i think kaname can want her, but rido can be the side that refuses to let go.

      rido has been part of kaname since kaname woke from his slumber. kname has always carried a part of rido within in, probably most of the reason why he couldn't kill him, since theres no real reason we saw why he became kaname's master.

      rido ghost mocked kaname for giving yuuki freedom and kaname replied that he was gonna go fetch her. kaname wanting to rip off yuuki wings smacks of rido talk.

      being devoted is not the same as being possessive, and possessiveness is definitely a rido trait.
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      kanachanimmortal
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by kanachanimmortal on Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:15 pm

      who cares about that idiot rido??he is dead now,i fear that maybe kaname wants to kill himself because rido is still a part of him.

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