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      Kaname Sin

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      aya-chan
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      Kaname Sin

      Post by aya-chan on Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:12 pm

      First topic message reminder :

      This subject was discussed on another thread http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1079p40-vampire-knight-chapter-78-full-raws-first-translation#24325 and decided to make a topic about this matter, and my reply is as respons to caela.

      Spoiler:
      caela wrote:About what Zero is accusing Kaname of: If Zero was just accusing Kaname of messing/causing the hunter's twin curse, which happened thousands of years ago, I doubt there would be this much anger.

      Also, I doubt a Chinese translator would confuse "blood-line," "clan" and "family". These are all separate Japanese Kanji/Chinese characters.

      Zero is blaming the deaths of his parents, Ichiru's death and the forced change of Zero's from human to vampire, on Kaname.

      ********************************

      Is the accusation possible? As far as I am concerned, Kaname is smart enough to fool Shizuka. Also The girl was stuck in a cage for who knows how long. Its not like Shizuka was privy to all the latest information like Sara was.

      All I know is that, the entire time I have been on all-up, I have always questioned even Rido's physical ability to change the list (his motive isn't that great either). Who ever changed the list is probably the enemy of the purebloods and Kaname, to me, is still a candidate. I suppose that means Sara is also a possibility. Rido was never written with enough brains to be a real possibility.

      ********************************

      About Zero trying to save Yuuki from Kaname: I meant it in a moral sense. Yuuki and Zero's dynamic has always been conditional (as opposed to Yume's unconditional dynamic): Yuuki protected Zero because of her sense of justice, and Zero protected Yuuki because of his respect of that sense of justice (yes, other reasons as well....but focusing on one reason for both for a reason).

      Yuuki claims to be willing to be "tainted" by Kaname. So far, that statement of hers has not really been tested. If Yuuki accepts Kaname now, without verifying Zero's accusations as either true or false, it looks like Zero is willing to cut ties with Yuuki.

      Why I dissagree with kaname being the culprit behind zero's tragedy:

      I. For Kaname to be the real culprit for zero's tragedy, means for him - kaname - to predict with a 100%accuracy the following events:
      >>>shizuka to have a lover
      >>>to put shizuka's lover on hunter list
      >>>gave this mission to zero's parents
      >>>and shizuka reacting this way:
      • kill zero parents

      • turn zero into a vampire

      • taking care of ichiru

      • ichiru returns and he's badly wounded by rido

      • zero devour his brother and he became the most powerful hunter


      And let's be serious, is impossible to predict those things. Shizuka was a vampire in grief, she could react in many ways, such as:
      >>>turning both children in vampires in front of their parents and let the parents alive
      >>>killing both children in front of their parents and let the parents alive
      *a parent biggest pain is to lose their children
      >>>Turning both children in vampires and then killing the parents
      >>>killing both children and then killing the parents
      >>>to kill the parents and zero and keep ichiru as a vampire or human

      But shizuka turned zero into a vampire in front of his parents and later she killed them, and keep ichiru on her side.

      For zero to be turned into a vampire and shizuka keeping ichiru and later zero to devour his brother was a must for zero to become the most powerful hunter.

      For me this seems to be a gamble, and kaname doesn't gamble.
      Moreover, for kaname to alter hunting list meant for him to have power in hunters association, which we knows he did not have nor in the present.
      But we knows who had: rido. rido was hand in hand with asato and the last one was an accomplice with the former hunter president.

      In the worse case, kaname released shizuka from the cage - maybe he pitied her because she grew up into a cage for her whole life, and she did nothing to deserve that.

      Info from official fanbook

      >>>The Hio family has a history of members going berserk, so she was brought up into a cage. she also lost the one she loved, so she grew to have a peculiar sense of life and death

      >>>She was locked and confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. She began to love a man, but he was executed by vampire hunters. She goes berserk and with rage and sorrow and attacks her enemy, kiryu family.


      But what happened with her lover has nothing to do with kaname, as well her reaction to her lover death.

      II. Shizuka came into cross academy to gain kaname's blood in order to have the power to kill rido, the real culprit. After shizuka regained her senses she made her own investigation and according to that the real culprit is rido.
      Facts sustained by:
      >>>kaname chapter 19

      We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka - refference to rido - and continued in chapter 20

      I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.

      >>>Maria chapter 26

      There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.

      >>>Ichiru chapter 40

      I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.

      All these quotes, as a whole show rido as the real culprit.

      Why Zero shouted with so much passion, remains for us to find out in the upcomings chapters, but one thing I am sure: kaname is not the real culprit behind zero's tragedy.

      In my opinion the sin of kaname is the twin curse - and this is the goal of this thread.

      I doubt the curse was put on hunters after HW death. Initially Kaname had wanted to sacrifice his life, and obviously he did not intend to cast a curse upon them, and I doubt he did it after her sacrifice.

      Something must be behind that.

      If hunters ate another female pureblood - kaname past wife - who probably was pregnant, it makes sense for kaname to curse them. Eating her, lifes got lost, and the perfect punishment for them was for pregnant hunter women to lose a child/children as well.
      A life for a life.

      According to twin curse when a mother is pregnant with twins is a misscarriage or stillbirth - both children will die or only one will survive. - zero and ichiru case was a rarity.
      Facts sustained by kaname chapter 37

      This is the first time I've seen a pair of hunter twins who both are alive. It's rare so I...In the hunter lineage when a mother is pregnant with twins there usually is a miscarriage or a stillbirth...

      The fetuses aren't selfaware yet. Manipulated by instinct the two will devour each other in the mother wombs just like vampires.

      Kaname: Occasionally a twin fetus will devour the entire life and powers of the twin in the womb and be born into this world as one of the strongest and most depraved hunters.









      Last edited by aya-chan on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

      Maria Kuran
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Maria Kuran on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:04 pm

      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      You're forgetting Sara...it seems she's also have many secrets so she could be the key too!? confused

      But the are more importants Kaname´s secrets!!!
      YEAH
      you have a point
      Kaname's secrets have been always the most mysterious thing in this manga
      so what if we don't get to see Kaname saying everything next chapter,what if he only go away from Yuuki again?

      well the answer to that is simple!!! I will died!!! Kaname you have to tell me everything or i would die!!!
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      lililovelilica
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by lililovelilica on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:17 pm

      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:

      But the are more importants Kaname´s secrets!!!
      YEAH
      you have a point
      Kaname's secrets have been always the most mysterious thing in this manga
      so what if we don't get to see Kaname saying everything next chapter,what if he only go away from Yuuki again?

      well the answer to that is simple!!! I will died!!! Kaname you have to tell me everything or i would die!!!
      You'll not die...since we'll get the answer from Kaname or Sarah sooner or later okay?
      Kaname can't hide his mystery and secrets forever>.<
      explosive but i will explode too if he doesn't say anything that's happening or talk to Yuuki already... bounce
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Maria Kuran on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:31 pm

      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      YEAH
      you have a point
      Kaname's secrets have been always the most mysterious thing in this manga
      so what if we don't get to see Kaname saying everything next chapter,what if he only go away from Yuuki again?

      well the answer to that is simple!!! I will died!!! Kaname you have to tell me everything or i would die!!!
      You'll not die...since we'll get the answer from Kaname or Sarah sooner or later okay?
      Kaname can't hide his mystery and secrets forever>.<
      explosive but i will explode too if he doesn't say anything that's happening or talk to Yuuki already... bounce

      I think the next chapter will go into memories. Or it will not be the same Kaname to reveal his own secrets, but maybe someone else like the sSig_censored of sara, when they are face to face. Or will be Zero, who says the secret?
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      lililovelilica
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by lililovelilica on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:35 pm

      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:

      well the answer to that is simple!!! I will died!!! Kaname you have to tell me everything or i would die!!!
      You'll not die...since we'll get the answer from Kaname or Sarah sooner or later okay?
      Kaname can't hide his mystery and secrets forever>.<
      explosive but i will explode too if he doesn't say anything that's happening or talk to Yuuki already... bounce

      I think the next chapter will go into memories. Or it will not be the same Kaname to reveal his own secrets, but maybe someone else like the sSig_censored of sara, when they are face to face. Or will be Zero, who says the secret?
      I think the one to saying everything is Kaname... scratch not Zero,nor Sara...Kaname's the real Hero here on the Manga king
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Maria Kuran on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:42 pm

      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      You'll not die...since we'll get the answer from Kaname or Sarah sooner or later okay?
      Kaname can't hide his mystery and secrets forever>.<
      explosive but i will explode too if he doesn't say anything that's happening or talk to Yuuki already... bounce

      I think the next chapter will go into memories. Or it will not be the same Kaname to reveal his own secrets, but maybe someone else like the sSig_censored of sara, when they are face to face. Or will be Zero, who says the secret?
      I think the one to saying everything is Kaname... scratch not Zero,nor Sara...Kaname's the real Hero here on the Manga king

      But you know how Kaname is, it does not suit that he get along with Yuki (I think) right now, and he will not defend himself of those who accuse him, so if Kaname does not speak, someone else has to, but anyway I have a hunch that if he is going to speak, even a simple explanation ...
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      lililovelilica
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by lililovelilica on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:47 pm

      Maria Kuran wrote:
      lililovelilica wrote:
      Maria Kuran wrote:

      I think the next chapter will go into memories. Or it will not be the same Kaname to reveal his own secrets, but maybe someone else like the sSig_censored of sara, when they are face to face. Or will be Zero, who says the secret?
      I think the one to saying everything is Kaname... scratch not Zero,nor Sara...Kaname's the real Hero here on the Manga king

      But you know how Kaname is, it does not suit that he get along with Yuki (I think) right now, and he will not defend himself of those who accuse him, so if Kaname does not speak, someone else has to, but anyway I have a hunch that if he is going to speak, even a simple explanation ...
      The things is:
      the plort should go this way
      1-Yuuki calls Kaname
      2-Yuuki rocks Kaname's blood and goes to his past
      3-Yuuki discovers the rest of his secrets
      4-Kaname have Yuuki's aid again
      5-Kaname kills Sara
      6-End of the game(after all Zero stays with Maria and eveyone is happy again^^
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Maria Kuran on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:50 pm



      But you know how Kaname is, it does not suit that he get along with Yuki (I think) right now, and he will not defend himself of those who accuse him, so if Kaname does not speak, someone else has to, but anyway I have a hunch that if he is going to speak, even a simple explanation ...
      The things is:
      the plort should go this way
      1-Yuuki calls Kaname
      2-Yuuki rocks Kaname's blood and goes to his past
      3-Yuuki discovers the rest of his secrets
      4-Kaname have Yuuki's aid again
      5-Kaname kills Sara
      6-End of the game(after all Zero stays with Maria and eveyone is happy again^^[/quote]

      And everyone lives happily ever after I like how you think!
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Falc0n on Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:33 am

      I also believe that twin curse like some of you said here is simply a result of the blood of hw that
      made them act much like vampires and not b/c of Kaname or any other.


      but why Kaname looked so very surprised to see a hunters twin ? it's rare yes, but not impossible.
      this made me think ..is the twin curse have some kind of prophecy ? something like "if a twin hunters are born, a great war will occur" or any other prophecy..


      And regarding Sara who said Zero is the fruit of Kanema’s “great sin” or something, perhabs she meant that him, Kaname the ancestor, encouraged the HW to kill her self so humans can devour her blood and flesh, thus in a way he killed one of his own kind to kill his own kind. And so Zero’s twin curse was result of Kaname’s sin ?


      so I don’t think that the secret, or I should say the lie that she told Zero about opening Shizuka’s cage have
      anything to do with Kaname’s great sin. Since as you said even if he done this (which he didn’t) it’s not that big of a crime to be called a sin.
      .............


      I have this thought bugging me. Zero's sense is higher than his parents and brother b/c he was
      born with one and a half hunter power. and he and he can sense vampires back then by their evil aura/ intention right ?
      then how come he as a kid sensed Kaname's presence on the mountains ?


      and another thing, why it's not Yagari who took Zero in but Kaien ? even if Kaien requested it from him,how come Kaname agreed to have someone who might fall to a level e any moment near his precious girl ? or was Kaname the one who suggested it ?


      I don't put much weigh on "he saw visions of the future" thingy. I prefer to rely on facts.

      is it the fact that Kaname thought that Zero even inside the womb defied/fought that violent nature and let his brother live, thus he must be a good-natured person deep down ?

      And even for four years, unlike usual people who were bitten, Zero suppressed his nature and Kaname was impressed by it, or lets say he expected that much of him ?


      Also I have been wondering about the tattoo/bracelet thing, which until now didn't get a serious treatment/use. to actually make the future queen tame the future president of hunters.. hmm sure hunters aren't impressed by that.

      is it for something that has to do with the past which he doesn't want it to repeat ?

      or only a new strategy for the future ? since Zero is also a key for the coexistence beside him and Yuuki. and he expects him to go berserk at some point ar/and to prevent another pureblood/ancestor (Sara + white chessmaster) to take control of a strong weapon like him.

      and he chose Yuuki b/c Zero is under her dept but he will definitely revolt against being tamed by him xD plus hunters too. but Yuuki is okay since she's the harmless cub for them.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by aya-chan on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:51 pm

      Falc0n wrote:And regarding Sara who said Zero is the fruit of Kanema’s “great sin” or something, perhabs she meant that him, Kaname the ancestor, encouraged the HW to kill her self so humans can devour her blood and flesh, thus in a way he killed one of his own kind to kill his own kind. And so Zero’s twin curse was result of Kaname’s sin ?

      Kaname hadn't forced her in any way to sacrifice herself; she decided this alone without kaname knowing; moreover his original plan was to sacrifice himself.

      Chapter 64: I did not wish for that woman sacrifice in the least. That was what I had intended to do myself.



      Apparently kaname's sin is him giving an order for vampires to not turn humans into vampires against their will; in humans eyes that is not a sin, but in purebloods or vampire eyes is.

      I have this thought bugging me. Zero's sense is higher than his parents and brother b/c he was
      born with one and a half hunter power. and he and he can sense vampires back then by their evil aura/ intention right ?
      then how come he as a kid sensed Kaname's presence on the mountains ?

      Kiryu family was a strong family hunter, and zero was born with more powers than others since he ate half of his brother's powers.
      Any hunter can sense a vampire presence is one is near, but zero senses were/are shaper since he had/has something extra.

      and another thing, why it's not Yagari who took Zero in but Kaien ? even if Kaien requested it from him,how come Kaname agreed to have someone who might fall to a level e any moment near his precious girl ? or was Kaname the one who suggested it ?

      I do not think kaname told kaien to take zero into his care. when kaname came for the first time in kaien's house he was attacked by zero.

      Zero: You smell the same as that woman.

      Kaname: That woman? Then you're Zero Kiryu? I've heard about you. I am sorry about what happened to your family...


      Kaname was surprised to see/know him. Another fact is kaien never told kaname zero was bitten by shizuka - that was something kaname discovered/sensed himself. exactly when we do not know.

      About zero being taken in kaien's care and not Yagari's maybe has something to do with kaien's steady life.
      Zero suffered a trauma and he needed someone who should have watch over him constantly, while Yagari was a hunter still sent in missions not having too much time to raise a traumatized child.

      Also, another relevant fact i think is kaien retirement from his duty as a hunter and he wasn't under HA orders anymore, while yagari was still under HA orders; a HA ruled by a corrupt president.
      With zero under kaien's care zero was protected by HA and their president.

      Also I have been wondering about the tattoo/bracelet thing, which until now didn't get a serious treatment/use. to actually make the future queen tame the future president of hunters.. hmm sure hunters aren't impressed by that.

      is it for something that has to do with the past which he doesn't want it to repeat ?

      or only a new strategy for the future ? since Zero is also a key for the coexistence beside him and Yuuki. and he expects him to go berserk at some point ar/and to prevent another pureblood/ancestor (Sara + white chessmaster) to take control of a strong weapon like him.

      and he chose Yuuki b/c Zero is under her dept but he will definitely revolt against being tamed by him xD plus hunters too. but Yuuki is okay since she's the harmless cub for them.

      The sole purpose of that tattoo was to delay zero transformation into a vampire - this is one of the reason he resisted so long. However that tattoo didn't stop the transformation, and for that vampire to be stopped if he goes berserk another item was needed - in this case the bracelet. Yuuki got that bracelet because she was closest to zero.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by juliet on Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:17 pm

      aya-chan wrote:

      and another thing, why it's not Yagari who took Zero in but Kaien ? even if Kaien requested it from him,how come Kaname agreed to have someone who might fall to a level e any moment near his precious girl ? or was Kaname the one who suggested it ?

      I do not think kaname told kaien to take zero into his care. when kaname came for the first time in kaien's house he was attacked by zero.

      Zero: You smell the same as that woman.

      Kaname: That woman? Then you're Zero Kiryu? I've heard about you. I am sorry about what happened to your family...


      Kaname was surprised to see/know him. Another fact is kaien never told kaname zero was bitten by shizuka - that was something kaname discovered/sensed himself. exactly when we do not know.

      About zero being taken in kaien's care and not Yagari's maybe has something to do with kaien's steady life.
      Zero suffered a trauma and he needed someone who should have watch over him constantly, while Yagari was a hunter still sent in missions not having too much time to raise a traumatized child.

      Also, another relevant fact i think is kaien retirement from his duty as a hunter and he wasn't under HA orders anymore, while yagari was still under HA orders; a HA ruled by a corrupt president.
      With zero under kaien's care zero was protected by HA and their president.


      To help you with that a bit Aya, it was mentioned in a conversation between Yagari and Kaien that Yagari normally should had taken care of Zero but at that time Yagari had to go away. Later on its mentioned that he was investigating the one that had changed the list (Discussion between Kaname-Yagari). So its no wonder...

      I hope that answers the question Falcon.






      I' ll show you a sweet dream next time
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Falc0n on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:05 am

      [quote="aya-chan"]
      Kaname hadn't forced her in any way to sacrifice herself; she decided this alone without kaname knowing; moreover his original plan was to sacrifice himself.

      Chapter 64: I did not wish for that woman sacrifice in the least. That was what I had intended to do myself.

      hehe, I know that aya-chan xD I was talking about how Sara will say it in her own twisted way.
      so if she lied and put it in that way, then he committed a sin. a great one.


      Apparently kaname's sin is him giving an order for vampires to not turn humans into vampires against their will; in humans eyes that is not a sin, but in purebloods or vampire eyes is.
      nah, doesn't sound like a sin to me. Sara said it's just a waste of time and power to not bite humans. she didn't relate it with the "great sin" as far as I remember




      Any hunter can sense a vampire presence is one is near, but zero senses were/are shaper since he had/has something extra.
      Zero told Maria that he can only sense vampires by their evil aura
      he sensed Shizuca when she bared her fangs to attack them, He sensed Sara when she was with the girls she'll bite. he sensed Touma's alterverion when he attacked Yuuki and later in HA with Kaien,

      though he failed to sense Kaname's alter at ch79 b/c Kaname had no evil aura about him then.
      but why he sensed him on the mountains ? was it Kaname's aura that got intense when he sensed a twin hunters ? who or what came on his mind back then ?
      or is it simply that Zero can sense him regardless of the aura ?




      Zero: You smell the same as that woman.

      Kaname: That woman? Then you're Zero Kiryu? I've heard about you. I am sorry about what happened to your family...


      Kaname was surprised to see/know him. Another fact is kaien never told kaname zero was bitten by shizuka - that was something kaname discovered/sensed himself. exactly when we do not know.

      Kaname must have been well informed about what happened with Shizuka and the Kiryuus. and that conversation prove it.

      how did he know for sure which pureblood woman the boy was talking about ?
      how did he know his name ? why he knows for sure "then you're Zero" ? why not Ichirou ??
      b/c simply he knows that the one who was bitten was Zero. and he can sense the boy in front of him is a vampire.

      and even if we pretend that he doesn't know, what did he do about knowing that ? nothing. he simply said to Yuuki "the one who is feeling pain is not me"
      he shrugged it off like whatever.


      About zero being taken in kaien's care and not Yagari's maybe has something to do with kaien's steady life.
      Zero suffered a trauma and he needed someone who should have watch over him constantly, while Yagari was a hunter still sent in missions not having too much time to raise a traumatized child.

      not just traumatized, but a vampire too. I was thinking if Zero was with Yagari and Kaito, Kaito will shot him if he showed that hungry face like he did to his own brother =_=
      Yagari did shot him too though not with intent of killing him. xD


      Also, another relevant fact i think is kaien retirement from his duty as a hunter and he wasn't under HA orders anymore, while yagari was still under HA orders; a HA ruled by a corrupt president.
      With zero under kaien's care zero was protected by HA and their president.

      hmm.. a convenient reason too.


      The sole purpose of that tattoo was to delay zero transformation into a vampire - this is one of the reason he resisted so long. However that tattoo didn't stop the transformation, and for that vampire to be stopped if he goes berserk another item was needed - in this case the bracelet. Yuuki got that bracelet because she was closest to zero.
      yup, back then Kaien didn't tell Zero the other propose of the tattoo, and I mean " the taming" thing until later when he bit Yuuki.
      it was a condition from Kaname to allow him to stay in the day class. and knowing that Kaname always think and plan away ahead, I believe that bracelet/tattoo will come in handy for some time to come.

      b/c when Yuuki was a human, she couldn't use it on him b/c he simply and easily grabbed her hand away from him. sure Kaname knows she was too weak as human to get near him when he's berserk

      thus I concluded that Kaname thought of this for the future, when she's a powerful pureblood

      juliet wrote:
      To help you with that a bit Aya, it was mentioned in
      a conversation between Yagari and Kaien that Yagari normally should had
      taken care of Zero but at that time Yagari had to go away. Later on
      its mentioned that he was investigating the one that had changed the
      list (Discussion between Kaname-Yagari). So its no wonder...

      I hope that answers the question Falcon.

      ah, thank you juliet ^^ that explains alot
      so Yagari was busy investigating . anyways, Kaien was a good choice for Zero's condition back then.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by mariangie on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:59 am

      Both vampires and vampire hunters have the power to know who is a vampire from their smell or aura . They even appear to differenciate from a which level the vampire is .

      What appears to differ is from which distance a vampire or hunter could smell / detect the aura of another vampire . As more powerful a vampire hunter or vampire is ; the longest distance .

      It appears also , a pureblood vampire has a very peculiar smell / aura that is easiest to diferenciate from other kind of vampires .

      Zero is kind of a unique situation . He is one vampire hunter who got not only his own powers but part of the ones supossed to be his twin brother's hunter powers . This increases the natural vampire hunter powers of Zero . So his hunter senses were sharper even as a kid .

      Ichiru lacked most hunter powers . So Ichiru couldn't detect a vampire smell / aura easy .

      **************************

      About the tatto - bracelet spell :

      This is an issue Hino introduced very early on into the story. Zero was shown with the tatto since the start . The spell was introduced at chapter 5 . A spell which made Yuuki the master of Zero and the one who can stop him if he turned bersek .

      We had see the bracelet and the tatto a lot of times . But no many mentions of the spell . The only ones I remember were when Yuuki was about to use the spell at chapter 18 ( during the Shizuka incident ) ; but Zero stopped her . A more recent scene was when Zero told her to use the spell and Yuuki answer she will only use it if he turn Level E .

      So the bracelet / tattoo spell appears to be a very important thing . But not used a lot until now . I presume this will play a very important part near the end of the story . Near the resolution of Yuuki and Zero issues .

      What I suspected from long ago is Zero will eventually fall to Level E . Yuuki will use the spell to stop him . Zero would ask her to kill him . But Yuuki would find the way to save him without the need to kill him .

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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by moniksosonik on Wed Mar 14, 2012 12:46 am

      did anyone notice that Rido Kuran was already "dead" (slumbering/recuperating) when Shizuka killed Ziro's parents? Yuki was already with Kaien.. i mean, maybe someone else did alter the hunter's list (Kaname)...i don't know...it's just a thought.. sFun_banghead2
      what do you think?
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by aya-chan on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:16 pm

      moniksosonik wrote:did anyone notice that Rido Kuran was already "dead" (slumbering/recuperating) when Shizuka killed Ziro's parents? Yuki was already with Kaien.. i mean, maybe someone else did alter the hunter's list (Kaname)...i don't know...it's just a thought.. sFun_banghead2
      what do you think?

      This subject was discussed before and no, kaname wasn't involve with the hunter's list; some of us even brought evidence /facts from manga which showed rido as the real culprit - he ordered to the senate to kill shizuka's lover - even if he was regenerating his body in a blood bath.
      Even if rido couldn't use his own body, his spirit was intact and he could possess the body of a relative.

      If you want to know more about this sujbect I kindly advice you to read older posts, and if you don't trust us then you can simply read manga or hino's fanbook - you would find out there the same information.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by mariangie on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:42 pm

      A funny thing is to see most people consider Rido's dead .

      These are very important facts :

      1- Rido is alive .

      2- A pureblood don't die until the last of his / her body cells are turned into crystals and dust .

      3- Purebloods need a ton of blood ( specially from their own pureblood family members ) to regenerate if their body had suffered a lot of damage .

      4- Even when a pureblood's body is severely damage , he / she can continue to talk / give orders / use mind control powers / possess other vampires or humans .

      5- For a pureblood vampire to die ; its required to totally impair their healing regenerating powers for an X - period of time ( as using an anti - vampire weapon )then cut their head or rip their hearts .

      It's kind of weird ; but for the most part in V. K.'s plot . Rido has being a very physically damaged pureblood ( now he is basically a puddle of blood ) who required pureblood's blood to regain his original body back . But this hasn't made Rido an harmless pureblood vampire . He had used his smooth talk and powers to control people for making others to do his bidding . Now there is the situation Rido is trying to make Kaname get to his side for him gettting his own body back . Planting doubts and dark thoughts to Kanane's heart . Rido probably wants Yuuki's blood to regain his lost body . Needs Kaname for doing the dirty work . As Rido don't have enough power to sacrifice Yuuki by himself . (Kaname's knightmare / vision of the future )
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by moniksosonik on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:55 pm

      You explained very nice and thank you! I dind't have the patience to read all the posts so...i had to ask!
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Knightmare on Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:14 am

      mariangie wrote:A funny thing is to see most people consider Rido's dead .

      These are very important facts :

      1- Rido is alive .

      2- A pureblood don't die until the last of his / her body cells are turned into crystals and dust .

      3- Purebloods need a ton of blood ( specially from their own pureblood family members ) to regenerate if their body had suffered a lot of damage .

      4- Even when a pureblood's body is severely damage , he / she can continue to talk / give orders / use mind control powers / possess other vampires or humans .

      5- For a pureblood vampire to die ; its required to totally impair their healing regenerating powers for an X - period of time ( as using an anti - vampire weapon )then cut their head or rip their hearts .

      It's kind of weird ; but for the most part in V. K.'s plot . Rido has being a very physically damaged pureblood ( now he is basically a puddle of blood ) who required pureblood's blood to regain his original body back . But this hasn't made Rido an harmless pureblood vampire . He had used his smooth talk and powers to control people for making others to do his bidding . Now there is the situation Rido is trying to make Kaname get to his side for him gettting his own body back . Planting doubts and dark thoughts to Kanane's heart . Rido probably wants Yuuki's blood to regain his lost body . Needs Kaname for doing the dirty work . As Rido don't have enough power to sacrifice Yuuki by himself . (Kaname's knightmare / vision of the future )

      or, the antivampire weapon has to pierce their hearts or heads.

      i don't agree. kaname wasn't killed he just went to sleep and starved himself, without being able to die. rido was crushed by a powerful pureblood. they werent the final death of an antivampire, as long as there was no injury to the heart or the head by those, they can revive from anything.

      but rido was crushed by the BR and pierced through the chest by the artemis and turned to crystal. it pretty much seems like he is dead.

      hanadagi dies when kaname puts his sword in the hole in his chest where his heart was removed. i don't think the art has to be all that accurate to make assumptions that rido is dead.

      what sticks to kaname has to be the remnants of what kaname posseses from rido by drinking heaps from him. i don't think this is the real rido as he once existed. that can only be a fake rido, as kaname said in this chapter, the pb blood that has been drunk remains a part of that pureblood always. kaname is the only one that ever sees this rido, who is also in his dreams. this rido will never revive.

      it was the same as the thing that tried to take control of the president, which almost had its own consciousness, but was not a part of the real rido/under his control. if rido had gone to the president, he probably could have controlled his blood like kaname does to zero. but there is no real rido alive to control the blood in kaname.

      i agree that something of rido still remains like a ghost, but not that the real one did not die and could revive.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by mariangie on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:06 am

      Knightmare wrote:
      mariangie wrote:A funny thing is to see most people consider Rido's dead .

      These are very important facts :

      1- Rido is alive .

      2- A pureblood don't die until the last of his / her body cells are turned into crystals and dust .

      3- Purebloods need a ton of blood ( specially from their own pureblood family members ) to regenerate if their body had suffered a lot of damage .

      4- Even when a pureblood's body is severely damage , he / she can continue to talk / give orders / use mind control powers / possess other vampires or humans .

      5- For a pureblood vampire to die ; its required to totally impair their healing regenerating powers for an X - period of time ( as using an anti - vampire weapon )then cut their head or rip their hearts .

      It's kind of weird ; but for the most part in V. K.'s plot . Rido has being a very physically damaged pureblood ( now he is basically a puddle of blood ) who required pureblood's blood to regain his original body back . But this hasn't made Rido an harmless pureblood vampire . He had used his smooth talk and powers to control people for making others to do his bidding . Now there is the situation Rido is trying to make Kaname get to his side for him gettting his own body back . Planting doubts and dark thoughts to Kanane's heart . Rido probably wants Yuuki's blood to regain his lost body . Needs Kaname for doing the dirty work . As Rido don't have enough power to sacrifice Yuuki by himself . (Kaname's knightmare / vision of the future )

      or, the antivampire weapon has to pierce their hearts or heads.

      i don't agree. kaname wasn't killed he just went to sleep and starved himself, without being able to die. rido was crushed by a powerful pureblood. they werent the final death of an antivampire, as long as there was no injury to the heart or the head by those, they can revive from anything.

      but rido was crushed by the BR and pierced through the chest by the artemis and turned to crystal. it pretty much seems like he is dead.

      hanadagi dies when kaname puts his sword in the hole in his chest where his heart was removed. i don't think the art has to be all that accurate to make assumptions that rido is dead.

      what sticks to kaname has to be the remnants of what kaname posseses from rido by drinking heaps from him. i don't think this is the real rido as he once existed. that can only be a fake rido, as kaname said in this chapter, the pb blood that has been drunk remains a part of that pureblood always. kaname is the only one that ever sees this rido, who is also in his dreams. this rido will never revive.

      it was the same as the thing that tried to take control of the president, which almost had its own consciousness, but was not a part of the real rido/under his control. if rido had gone to the president, he probably could have controlled his blood like kaname does to zero. but there is no real rido alive to control the blood in kaname.

      i agree that something of rido still remains like a ghost, but not that the real one did not die and could revive.


      But not all purebloods had a little vial of blood kept in the Vampire Senate building . Nor shown sticking as a huge blood stain to Kaname's clothes at the start of chapter 44.

      A very important detail . A pureblood only need a single cell from his body to keep him alive . Meaning a pureblood who has his / her regenerating powers intact could be reborn from a little blood sample kept in a flask . The only problem is that pureblood would require a lot of blood to regenerate . Even if that blood is from another pureblood .
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by SassyKnight on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:13 am

      Rido is not alive...Zero killed him xD Only his spirit in Kaname remains...So Kaname IS Rido...A part of him wants Yuki, while the other is trying to push her away. And IMO I think Kaname is supporting ZeKi Very Happy Just as in the first arc, Zero supported YuMe.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by KuranPrince on Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:02 pm

      SassyKnight wrote:Rido is not alive...Zero killed him xD Only his spirit in Kaname remains...So Kaname IS Rido...A part of him wants Yuki, while the other is trying to push her away. And IMO I think Kaname is supporting ZeKi Very Happy Just as in the first arc, Zero supported YuMe.

      Personally, Sassy, I don't buy that at all. The important thing is Kaname is NOT supporting ZeroxYuuki at all. Truth of the matter is, especially in the first arc, he loves Yuuki and is willing to do anything in his own power to bring peace to both species (vampires and humans) and for his fiancee Yuuki to walk free upon.
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by chacile on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:20 pm

      SassyKnight wrote:Rido is not alive...Zero killed him xD Only his spirit in Kaname remains...So Kaname IS Rido...A part of him wants Yuki, while the other is trying to push her away. And IMO I think Kaname is supporting ZeKi Very Happy Just as in the first arc, Zero supported YuMe.

      Wow… for the first time, my nose really bled on this post.. I cannot fathom how on earth can one arrive such kind of conclusion??! KANAME IS RIDO? Shocked Are my eyes playing tricks on me? Shocked Indeed, in Ch60, remnants of Rido talked to Kaname, but Kaname later on destroyed what remained of him (Ch60 pg6) and we hadn’t been heard or seen him after that. Though I would say that a part of Rido would continue to exist inside Kaname’s body due to the fact that Kaname was able to drink blood from him at the moment of his reawakening from the coffin, this doesn’t tantamount to Kaname being Rido.. I mean, where’s the logic in there??? If Kaname if shipping for Zeki, then what’s the “My beloved and pitiful.. My Yuuki” lines are for? Kaname might wish for Yuuki a better life and world without purebloods but this does not mean that he’s doing all these to make Zero and Yuuki end up together..
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by kialovejapan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:18 pm

      mariangie wrote:
      Knightmare wrote:
      mariangie wrote:A funny thing is to see most people consider Rido's dead .

      These are very important facts :

      1- Rido is alive .

      2- A pureblood don't die until the last of his / her body cells are turned into crystals and dust .

      3- Purebloods need a ton of blood ( specially from their own pureblood family members ) to regenerate if their body had suffered a lot of damage .

      4- Even when a pureblood's body is severely damage , he / she can continue to talk / give orders / use mind control powers / possess other vampires or humans .

      5- For a pureblood vampire to die ; its required to totally impair their healing regenerating powers for an X - period of time ( as using an anti - vampire weapon )then cut their head or rip their hearts .

      It's kind of weird ; but for the most part in V. K.'s plot . Rido has being a very physically damaged pureblood ( now he is basically a puddle of blood ) who required pureblood's blood to regain his original body back . But this hasn't made Rido an harmless pureblood vampire . He had used his smooth talk and powers to control people for making others to do his bidding . Now there is the situation Rido is trying to make Kaname get to his side for him gettting his own body back . Planting doubts and dark thoughts to Kanane's heart . Rido probably wants Yuuki's blood to regain his lost body . Needs Kaname for doing the dirty work . As Rido don't have enough power to sacrifice Yuuki by himself . (Kaname's knightmare / vision of the future )

      or, the antivampire weapon has to pierce their hearts or heads.

      i don't agree. kaname wasn't killed he just went to sleep and starved himself, without being able to die. rido was crushed by a powerful pureblood. they werent the final death of an antivampire, as long as there was no injury to the heart or the head by those, they can revive from anything.

      but rido was crushed by the BR and pierced through the chest by the artemis and turned to crystal. it pretty much seems like he is dead.

      hanadagi dies when kaname puts his sword in the hole in his chest where his heart was removed. i don't think the art has to be all that accurate to make assumptions that rido is dead.

      what sticks to kaname has to be the remnants of what kaname posseses from rido by drinking heaps from him. i don't think this is the real rido as he once existed. that can only be a fake rido, as kaname said in this chapter, the pb blood that has been drunk remains a part of that pureblood always. kaname is the only one that ever sees this rido, who is also in his dreams. this rido will never revive.

      it was the same as the thing that tried to take control of the president, which almost had its own consciousness, but was not a part of the real rido/under his control. if rido had gone to the president, he probably could have controlled his blood like kaname does to zero. but there is no real rido alive to control the blood in kaname.

      i agree that something of rido still remains like a ghost, but not that the real one did not die and could revive.


      But not all purebloods had a little vial of blood kept in the Vampire Senate building . Nor shown sticking as a huge blood stain to Kaname's clothes at the start of chapter 44.

      A very important detail . A pureblood only need a single cell from his body to keep him alive . Meaning a pureblood who has his / her regenerating powers intact could be reborn from a little blood sample kept in a flask . The only problem is that pureblood would require a lot of blood to regenerate . Even if that blood is from another pureblood .

      If Rido is still alive...What a boring thing!!! The reader want to read story with new caracters,new enemies, otherwise everything in the manga becomes repetitive....I think that Hino Matsuri has in mind for us new hot! New caracters, new mistery, new solution of mistery...etc
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by aya-chan on Wed Apr 25, 2012 8:34 pm

      SassyKnight wrote:Rido is not alive...Zero killed him xD Only his spirit in Kaname remains...So Kaname IS Rido...A part of him wants Yuki, while the other is trying to push her away. And IMO I think Kaname is supporting ZeKi Very Happy Just as in the first arc, Zero supported YuMe.

      sSc_jawdrop3 how did you reach such conclusion? - I suppose you have a theory about this issue; I am willing to listen to it
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by Falc0n on Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:07 am

      since you guys are talking about if Rido still alive (most likely he's not xD), I got a question...

      "the HW's heart and soul are still alive in the weapons and the furnace b/c her heart wasn't pierced with AV weapon nor devoured by a pureblood. plus, her blood is still whispering to hunters"

      do you guys think this statement true or false ?
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by juliet on Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:06 pm

      "the HW's heart and soul are still alive in the weapons and the furnace b/c her heart wasn't pierced with AV weapon nor devoured by a pureblood. plus, her blood is still whispering to hunters"

      she threw it in the furnace, i think if they were chances of revival that should have already happened but that was not her wish anyway...

      nevertheless, i think your statement refers more into some kind of spiritual remains there...can not be completely untrue, we saw that her aura or how else should i describe it- an atmosphere that reminds her- is evident around the headquarters...

      moving on the discussion

      I think that she is dead along with Rido, of course and i do think that there are no chances of survival or revival somehow - but the spirituality element is nice, adding more fantasy elements in the script...more than this it can not hurt anyone at this stage...






      I' ll show you a sweet dream next time
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      Re: Kaname Sin

      Post by SassyKnight on Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:03 pm

      Rido is only alive within Kaname himself...that is why Kaname is a contradiction. The Rido part of him (who wanted Juri) now is possessive over Yuki so that side of him is awakening inside of Kaname. Rido wants Yuki so Kaname is finding it difficult to push her away. As Kaname has stated "A part of me wants to keep you for myself" or something similar to that ( i cant remember the exact line right off the top of my head, but it was similar)

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