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    The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

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    Li.llium
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    The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Li.llium on Sat May 26, 2012 9:47 pm


    1. Shizuka had been arrested by the vampires because she was considered dangerous.
    2. It is said that they gave to her humans as food. What is curious, afterall, the greatest sin of a vampire is to transform a human into a vampire, without authorization. This human diet - was it voluntary?
    3. Shizuka was under the care of the vampires. The first quote about the worst sin was said by Aido-Nagamichi. Nagamichi says that Kaname committed the worst crime. Some translations use the verb participate.

    Well, Kaname knew that Shizuka would get her revenge. But it seems hat the council knew about it too. Because Kaname did this in secret. How did Nagamichi knew about it? Kaname said it to him. Or her release was one permission of some vampires.

    Because if Kaname opened the cell freely, how did Nagamichi know about it? For me, if he opened the cell, it was a decision of the vampires. Kaname would not allow anyone had found this secret, because Yuki and Kaien would never have forgiven him. At the same time, this was a moment shared only among the vampires.

    This leads me to think about the following: When the list was modified, Kaname was to investigate the reason. He found that Rido had begun to act again. He talked about it with Nagamichi (nagamichi was council member too, I think) and the Hio clan, the clan that had probably Shizuka's custody.

    Kaname freed Shizuka for her kill Rido. But things got out of his control. I think it was this ...
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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by aya-chan on Sat May 26, 2012 10:25 pm

    Shizuka had been arrested by the vampires because she was considered dangerous.

    A little correction - shizuka wasn't arrested due to her violent past.
    she was locked into a cage since she was a child due to the violent record of her own clan; also the council motivated their reason as protection (a big lie). But shizuka herself commited no crime to be caged.

    Also, when shizuka escaped she ran away together with her lover, so kaname couldn't have released her under the reason he provided to zero.

    >>> Aidou-dono said to kaname "before shizuka went missing you participated in the most sinful crime a vampire can commit" - it's not clear at what he's referring to (when she escaped from the cage or after she killed the kiryu's). Also we still don't know if the sinful crime aidou-dono is referring has a connection with shizuka (but probably is connected with shizuka) and not with another matter.

    >>> I doubt kaname would have released a pb who's family have a violent past if he knew her lover would be killed (kaname don't sacrifice humans for his plans.)

    >>> how could kaname knew that the list was changed? he had/has no influence in hunter's association, nor he decided/decide which mission goes to whom.

    >>> and lastly, shizuka didn't kill kiruy's immediately after her lover's death but countless days later, time in which she meet and socialized with ichiru.

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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Fine of Fate on Sun May 27, 2012 12:30 am

    The sin that Aidou-dono was speaking of might have been the creation of the hunters and the war against the vampires as from a vampire's perspective it would be the worst thing you could do agains your own kind, wouldn't it?
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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by juliet on Sun May 27, 2012 12:52 am

    if you want to reason with Kami's actions at the current moment there are several events that we can display...things that contradict...that shout..."hey, there is something wrong in this picture and there are many errors here, can you find them?" so listening to all fans, here and there can you find any?

    later on i shall make a cute thread with scans and actions that erase one another..now i am a bit occupied...but for the fellows of discussions and theories...you are sure to find one coming up....






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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Li.llium on Sun May 27, 2012 1:19 am

    @Fine:But the creation of hunters - through the sacrifice of HW - is not considered a crime. But as you said, on vampire´s view ...
    Once time, Zero told to Aido "you are unable to honor this woman ..."
    Still, I do not think the crime which was related to Kaname is it. Although I think it is possible this crime taking out Kaname of Kiryu case - relating him only with vampires. {Here speaks one who has faith in Kaname until the last word of the last chapter of VK)
    And there is a chance of Nagamichi be wrong, assigning a Kanme one responsibility he hasn´t. My major conflict is the verb commit. It seems being something done just by Kaname. Kaname did not create the hunters. But if Nagamichi means "participate", so ...

    @Aya-chan
    Shizuka knew that her lover was not a Level-E yet. She concluded that the list had been modified. The question is how she discovered that Rido did it. So I think it may have been a conversation between her and Kaname when she tells him that the list was changed because it had no reason to her beloved being there.

    Off: I had thought that The Kiryus realizing that Shizuka´s lover was not a Level-E. Because I thought the hunters were able to realize it.
    But Shizuka tells to Ichiru his parents were just doing their duty.
    And recently, Yagari killed his bride. This shows that she managed to hide her degradation.

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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Fine of Fate on Sun May 27, 2012 1:39 am

    Well said Li. I was thinking of the first and most obvious thing that came to mind, but I didn't really have any faith in it. It's just another (though probably not insignificant 'cause of Zerorin<3) thing on the pile of 'don't knows'. But just to ask in general, can YOU think of what Kana-chama's so called 'greatest sin' is?
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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Li.llium on Sun May 27, 2012 2:24 am

    One thing that makes me curious is to know that Maria clearly said to Zero that the main responsible for the death of his parents was Rido Kuran and not only Shizuka. Maria never saw Kaname, she recognized him for the first time through the fragments of Shizuka´s memory.
    Well, why Shizuka not said to Maria that Kaname was also responsible for the death of zero´s parents too? And why Shizuka wanted to kill Kaname if he helped her carry out her vengeance, partly?

    It is not said when Kaname decided to sleep indefinitely. If that happened moments after the death of HW and the creation of hunters or if he waited a bit to do this.

    HW said that she could not forgive the person who was doing it with humans. Kaname might have killed that person and several others. Then he decided to sleep forever.

    When Nagamichi said Kaname committed the greatest sin, in the following section he says that would come one day when only Yuki will be able to stop Kaname.

    It is possible that one thing is link to another: Nagamichi knew what was the greatest sin of Kaname. And he was predicting that there would come a day that Yuki would have to fight against Kaname. Probably the greatest sin of Kaname (if not the case Kiryu) was kill several PB, as he is doing now.

    An addition: when Isaya had knew about Nagami-s and hanadagi´s death, he said " then, you kill Nagamichi, what a pity" . It´s like Isaya had knew something about it.

    However .... Isaya spent 50 years asleep. He could not find anything that was related to the case Kiryu. The math here does not match.Or, Isaya liked Nagamichi and he said it like " he was a nice person,how pitiful!

    But yes, for all purposes, so far, Kaname was complicit, at last. for now.
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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by Knightmare on Sun May 27, 2012 2:39 am

    just wanna make a distinction

    my friend told me that the words that nagamichi uses are "worst crime/sins against/to purebloods" as opposed to takuma's works to sara which were "of purebloods". but my book translated it the same. maybe someone can check that.

    Nagamichi only knows about it, because ichio tells him. i think maybe the sin has something to do with kaname killing purebloods now, cos i think ichio once said something about letting purebloods destroy themselves. i dont think it was about freeing shizuka he was talking about. but it might be something to do with WHY kaname let her out. maybe kaname was hoping for the same thing that happened with sara, that shizuka would go around killing purebloods. she did go after kaname for power after all.

    i don't think shizuka spoke to kaname about who changed the list, we saw all their conversations when they met up at the school and they hadn't met since she saw him at her jail, at least thats what i took away from their conversation.

    @level E - i don't think they are always crazy or obviously so. the nurse was level e, but zero thought she was fine and gentle until she attacked. its probably different for all of them. plus the list does not just contain level e vampires, but others who have committed crimes. so the kiryuus probably would not think to verify if he was justly on the list or not.

    how did shizuka know? thats the big question. no one alive can tell us it seems. yagari had been investigating after the kiryuus death, but he only found out that someone was manipulating the hunters, he did not find out who. its a bigger mystery, how shizuka, on the run, found out about what happened within the hunters hq...i think shizuka guessed that rido was the one who did it because he wanted to supress her and he was the only one she was aware any interest in her affairs.

    but why would rido want to do it? why would he care? he was busy repairing his body and manipulating a kuran to come and ressurect him. his involvement with the senate was over gaining his power back from kaname. he could have done it out of spite and if the hunter president had been taking ridos blood 5 years ago, rido might have controlled him through his blood.

    the other part of the equation is though, how did the kiryus get assigned her lover. any hunter could have done it. so was that a manipulation too?

    what gets me though, is that kaname had an interst in the twins before the massacre and its clear he had some plan when he learned about them, based on what takuma said. its awfully coincidental that all this other stuff happened to their family as well...and it worked in kaname's favour.

    Li.llium wrote:
    An addition: when Isaya had knew about Nagami-s and hanadagi´s death, he said " then, you kill Nagamichi, what a pity" . It´s like Isaya had knew something about it.

    However .... Isaya spent 50 years asleep. He could not find anything that was related to the case Kiryu. The math here does not match.Or, Isaya liked Nagamichi and he said it like " he was a nice person,how pitiful!
    you mean in 69? after getting the news, isaya said the reputation of the purebloods was getting bad and that was sad.
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    Re: The release of Shizuka: a strange circumstance

    Post by mariangie on Sun May 27, 2012 6:22 am

    A lot of random rants :

    Zero's school nurse or Yagari's fiancee was a Level D vampire for X time Remember all Level D that had not being stabilized by their pureblood masters had a period where they keep part of their humanity and control of their urges . Later , under an indeterminated period in the story ; a Level D lost all the remains of his / her humanity / urges . During the time she continues to keep a little of her humanity / self - control , she tried to pass as human . Yagari could had eventired to hide her . But when the time came . She lost the last of her humanity . Turned into a berseker , beast vampire ; AKA . Level E . That time was the same time Zero and Yagari where present with her . She attacked Zero . Yagari could not kill her quickly enough . Because of both his feelings of Zero and him for the girl . Yagari lost his eye and ended killing her in the process .

    The fandom definition of Level E is ( from page 135 ) :


    Former humans

    Humans who transform into vampires after a pureblood drinks their blood . They're different from common vampires in that they gradually lose their reason and lose control over the urge to drink blood . These who attack humans indiscriminately are called " Level E " .

    It's possible to prevent becoming a Level E by drinking a pureblood's blood .

    ****************************
    Mega speculation here :

    Aido - dono is a very important missing piece to the past related to present Kaname ( the one who was raised a s Yuuki's brother ) , Zero and Shizuka . It's a fact he knew a lot of Kaname's past as the the present Kaname . It's a mystery if he did knew the present Kaname was the same ancestor , Vampire King Kaname from the past . If he knew , Aido - dono had to know about Kaname's plan to kill all the purebloods ; as he did during the time he was Vampire King .

    Here's the catch . There are not many people who can be interrogated about the Shizuka incident alive at this moment . Zero knows random bits . Maria knows about the same that Shizuka could know . Takuma did knew a lot of information about the incident because of Kaname confessing him some info . Takuma could also know some details from his grandfather . Rido knows something about this ( but don't expect Rido to talk so soon . ). Of course Kaname knows almost all angles ( if not all ). But the one who apparently got the whole information was Aido - dono .

    If Aido - dono indeed was a reliable source of almost all the Shizuka incident events . And he wasn't really being killed . But hide somewhere . He could be a very important clue to clarify what truly happened . But to this to works , He had to be hide by Ruka and Akatsuki . And Ruka has to reveal the truth of her being creating an illusion of killing Aido - dono .

    But in this scenario . If Aido - dono is alive . A lot of answers will be found from him .

    Of course the opposite could be argue . Kaname killed Aido - dono to prevent the truth out . But Kaname doesn't appear to want to hide his involvement to Shizuka's incident to Zero . So I don't expect Kaname killing Aido - dono just for this purpose .

    ***************

    From the past chapters . Kaname has being told he was involved with the worse sin from a vampire . This sin is " to create a ex - human vampire / Level D without the consent of the human " . We know that sin was created during the Vampire King period . This implies Kaname was the one who created the sin . Most probably after HW saying to him pureblood vampires needed only a few servants for keeping them alive . Humans who consentedto be vampires .

    So if the sin was to turn Zero vampire . When we know Shizuka was the one who bites Zero ( and the one who commited the sin ) . Why Kaname is accused from having a participation or being a witness here ? A reason could be he was the intellectual author . But this is questionable as he had told a half lie / half truth to Zero about his involveent .

    Kaname could be also an indirect participant of this .( waht I'm more inclined to think ) . I believe after Kaname knew about the existance of Shizuka . Her being the fiancee of Rido . Knowing about her hate for the Vampire Senate and Rido being encaged . Kaname could plan to free Shizuka . Believing she would expend her revenge over Rido and / or the vampire Senate . ( Remember Kaname couldn't kill Rido himself . Because of the bond between them . ) And his plan backfired . Due so somehow Rido and the Vampire Senate discover her escape with a ex - human lover . Altering the vampire hunter's list . Changing Shizuka's goals of vengance .


    ************

    This issue is one of the issues I'm getting a lot of troube getting a workable theory . For now what I know I got rigth was : Kaname's being the one involved with Shizuka's escape . ( This one from the very Shizuka mini arc . But no many comments at forums from me about this .

    So now the thing I'm sure it will happen is someone at last narrate the whole incident . To make clear what happened in reality . Whose this person will be ; is kind of a mystery to me yet . As I said Aido - dono is the best witness for this . But it could be any other person .

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