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We and the Youtube

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would you like to read a sequel of vk?or is hino thinking of writing one?
59% 59% [ 24 ]
27% 27% [ 11 ]
15% 15% [ 6 ]

Total Votes : 41

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    Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

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    nina
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    Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by nina on Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:15 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1811076515




    Translation here http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/1008065.html

    Many thanks to Senbyafanatic cheers




    English scanlation HERE


    Last edited by nina on Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:22 pm; edited 2 times in total





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

    mariangie
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by mariangie on Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:31 am

    As no more anti - vampire weapons infused with HW's spirit . They are supposed to be rendered useless .

    This means Kaname has no way to kill a pureblood vampire . Because in a normal fight between them , it will be a draw .

    What appears to be the next step is. Kaname resolved to susbtitute HW as the new pureblood material to make a new metal furnace . Meaning Kaname will replace HW as the new spirit controlling the anti - vampire weapons .

    The Kaname: "I’ll carry on your will." promise .

    The problem here is if Yuuki will allow Kaname to die as a sacrifice to create new anti - vampire weapons .

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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by juliet on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:03 am

    Changing her to a human to keep Yuuki uninvolved in the eventual massacre of purebloods seems a likely explanation, I think. It's clear now that Kaname has always known of the HW's intentions against purebloods.

    Yes I think it’s evident somehow that one way or another HW would reach a point where she would desire the elimination of all purebloods and perhaps that’s the main reason why Kaname expressed such a fatalistic and also certain attitude towards Yuuki and her future such as here;
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-61-page-10.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-61-page-9.html

    There was always the question why Kaname was certain that he shall lose Yuuki in a task; perhaps HW’s determination to put an end to all purebloods would mean that Yuuki would be involved in this and risk her life, because she had already expressed her ultimate wish to not allow to another innocent one to be sacrificed.

    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-58-page-6.html

    And in HW’s case we have the killing of all purebloods, even innocent ones, at least this is what I think.

    So most certainty, he sets out to fulfill HW’s will in order to protect Yuuki, but also earn a chance for her (at least) not to die. This is my thought about it.

    What is missing of course from this theory is the point where Kaname’s behavior changes, because I do believe that at the beginning when they return at the Kuran mansion he is highly thinking about staying with her, and so I am under the impression that even though at the back of his head there had always been the notion that he should have to deal with HW’s wishes at some point, therefore he hesitated changing her and always searched for alternatives, we still do not know what set the final stage for the elimination of the purebloods to take place in such a rushed way>
    What I mean is what made the ancestor to react at this time and moment? What brought the execution threat so close at this point in time?

    There is this fishy line from Sara that I never understood before;
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-13/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html
    How Sara judges that since Kaname is the ancestor he shall let her for now? I mean this knowledge about him how it affects her plan?

    Then it was Hanadagi> Kaname had been watching the castle before Ouri’s murder to ensure the place’s peace (what for?) and we see that Sara evaded in the castle in order to launch an attack. She had intended to wake Hanadagi and Aido-dono warned her not to start a conflict between the purebloods.
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-67-page-21.html

    So my theory here is that Aido’s dono line is about Kaname that shall take action to kill Hana since Kaname’s role ever since the ancient times was bringing nemesis to the evil ones. I think that Aido-dono knows about it and we saw before so Hanadagi’s servant is aware of Kaname’s role and totally overlooks that fact, putting the blame to Sara. So to keep it short, Sara does create a conflict there in purpose, stepping on Kaname’s role to achieve results> but still not many info…

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-21/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html
    And then the tablets that were to change humans recreating an environment like the first progenitor who changed people in the past, though Sara monks about it Kaname in an ironic way of course;

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/27
    And some additional points that show that Sara had fully knowledge about Kaname’s past, his role to eliminate all purebloods but also that the elimination was unavoidable to happen;

    Takuma’s line when he sees that Kaname has come to finish Sara;
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/28
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/29
    So Sara and Takuma knew about the elimination > and more than this they seem to have played a great role in creating the conditions up to this moment, and Kaname also permitted them to do so in order (IMO) to reach the moment where he would take control of the elimination as he did at the current chapter to protect Yuuki.
    And about Sara’s final entrance in the Hunter Association;

    (I found it strange because once the hunters learn about the tablets normally that should be the last place that she would wish to visit but if she knows all Kaname’s past and has been using it, wisely until now to move things to her advance, then she knew also about the mother metal, the elimination (as Takuma suggests) and perhaps she thought that this shall be the way that Kaname shall die >

    since she knows that HW shall seek the termination of all purebloods. So at that time she tries to make an exit but the delay makes her the first victim.

    Zero is used as a delay. The real potential killer though is the mother metal I believe. But Sara’s impatient nature does not allow her to stop there and run, she is so ambitious that she decides to make the final move herself. So…

    Theories up to this point (now I can not think of anything more).

    So he watched her grow up as a human, and delayed transforming her back into a pureblood to prolong her safety. Because Kaname did care for the HW as well and wants to help fulfill her will, but not at Yuuki's expense.

    So it seems as though Kaname found a loophole to help and save both women he cared for:

    Kaname will fulfill the HW's wish by protecting their society from the 'darkness of purebloods'. But before beginning the hunt, he intended to keep Yuuki human. Because if she were human, the HW wouldn't see a need to kill her as well and she would be out of harms way.

    I do not think that Kaname cares here about the HW’s will, since HW tried to kill everyone, I think that Kaname had no other choice but to accept that role, because it’s a blackmailing situation actually. Either Kaname would accept it or she would instantly kill them all…and I think that this was the deal from the beginning that Kaname sets out for his plan; he knows what is coming and so the rest, therefore they all decide to help like a chance of the last minute to save if they can what they can or to cease the destruction and the killing insticts once and for all.

    Personally I am on Yuuki’s side right now, HW has lost her purpose trying to kill all purebloods, having being transformed into something else that this is why I believe that Hino brings forward Yuuki’s impression about HW’s wishes (the same impression that we also had actually that wished only the extermination of the ones that changed humans)…so now that HW woke up and stretches out loud her internal wishes we can see the great difference and see that this is not Kaname that forgot but she who changed her demands.

    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-84-page-17.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-84-page-24.html

    Nina made a very good possible explanation of this here;
    Kaname: I can barely feel HER emotions in it anymore… (means HW emotions in the weapons) … These weapons are consumed with the desire to kill vampires (volume 14)

    The above passage made me think that HW’s will had been somehow deviated from the initial goal or if you like the numerous killings and the blood that had fed these weapons had consumed all the (“human-ish”) emotions except from the desire to kill. Thus and the HW in the end turned into a monster which tried to kill even Yuuki.

    And perhaps it was time to stop since the weapons were indeed a great source, “cursed” themselves, such as in Kaien’s case where he was trying to get rid of that curse to kill vampires by trying to slaughter them all and be rid of that role for good. That was until she met the “pure good”, something that also Kaname met with Yuuki and this is why he had wished to stop with this role and be with her, but then again now it seems impossible for him, since he said that he succeed her, whatever that means.

    Sorry long post but I wanted to say this in case you might also come up with an idea that can add to it all.

    What appears to be the next step is. Kaname resolved to susbtitute HW as the new pureblood material to make a new metal furnace . Meaning Kaname will replace HW as the new spirit controlling the anti - vampire weapons .

    The Kaname: "I’ll carry on your will." promise .

    The problem here is if Yuuki will allow Kaname to die as a sacrifice to create new anti - vampire weapons .

    can be so...but with the purebloods that have remained won't he deal with them first? I am under the impression that three weapons might function...but we shall see...






    I' ll show you a sweet dream next time

    nina
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by nina on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:37 pm

    @Jul very good analysis!! \0/

    What is missing of course from this theory is the point where Kaname’s behavior changes, because I do believe that at the beginning when they return at the Kuran mansion he is highly thinking about staying with her

    Right … this is one of the key questions because he indeed thought that he could spend eternity with Yuuki. So what factor made him to change his mind and when?
    From what we know thus far I think that Kaname started to think about his OP again around the time of the soirée where he introduced Yuuki and he made his final decision in the mausoleum … during his talk about his contradictions with Rido.

    I always thought that a free Yuuki (as the pic in his contradictions) meant for him the restart of his plan but the query was remaining; why?

    Now seeing the threat that the HW posed for any PB –even for Yuuki- I wonder if she was the threat.
    Many of us wondered; what was this huge threat that Kaname couldn’t counter; why he couldn’t protect Yuuki? >>

    Another point that had created to me questions and maybe is relevant now is this Kaname’s line to Kain at the soiree >>

    Kaname: In order to protect her I need everyone to know of her existence…

    What he meant??? Any idea is welcomed lol

    And Juliet is right … seeing now clearly what the HW wants and what Yuuki represents we can assume that the two women are in polar opposite positions… both of them were into Kaname’s contradictions as figures … so was it inevitable a clash between them? And I do not mean a confrontation face to face but their opposite wills and where Yuuki’s actions could have led (???) >>
    According to Kaname to Yuuki’s death/sacrifice >> did Yuuki’s decision to grab her Artemis going to the outside world motivated to make a difference; played a role to Kaname’s decision?

    I am under the impression that even though at the back of his head there had always been the notion that he should have to deal with HW’s wishes at some point, therefore he hesitated changing her and always searched for alternatives,

    Alternatives yes … and I don’t think that these alternatives regarded only Yuuki.
    - His choice to go into slumber instead of fulfilling HW’s will in the far past could have been another alternative that he was seeking. If Kaname wanted the same thing as the HW or was so important for him (for emotional reasons) to fulfill her will then why he didn’t do it back then when moreover he was alone and with nothing to lose?
    - The monarchy, the Kurans’ philosophy and the rule that no one should change humans into vampires. All these choices allowed the PBs to go on living for millennia, creating families and in extension the vampires’ society with level B, C, D as it is now.

    Could all these have been his efforts to set, let’s say, in “slumber” the will of the HW?

    IMO and with the info that we have so far the answer is yes cuz all that was his doings and were coming clearly in contrast with what the HW wanted. Thus Kaname in a sense tried to negate or reverse the inevitable (as it seems now) i.e. the annihilation of all the PBs?


    And perhaps it was time to stop since the weapons were indeed a great source, “cursed” themselves, such as in Kaien’s case where he was trying to get rid of that curse to kill vampires by trying to slaughter them all and be rid of that role for good. That was until she met the “pure good”, something that also Kaname met with Yuuki and this is why he had wished to stop with this role and be with her, but then again now it seems impossible for him, since he said that he succeed her, whatever that means.

    Same thoughts here Jul … I was reading again the volume 12 … the extra chapter about Cross’s past as a fearful hunter takes another meaning now. (for whoever wants to refresh its memory >
    HERE

    The most juicy parts >>

    Cross: One day I’ll burn those photos and wipe out every one of you
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-5.html

    Juuri: Do you mean that? You intend to kill every one of us?

    Cross: Our job will be done once we annihilate you… and this godforsaken curse I have may disappear once you’re gone. Surely I’m allowed that dream, right?
    (I did tell her it was my dream but it was a dark dream and there was no hope of it coming true.


    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-6.html

    Cross back then clearly states and wishes what all the hunters want > the annihilation of the vampires > HW’s will. But on the same time he is seeking for a way out of that curse >>

    Godforsaken curse … a curse that Cross was tired of and he thought that it might stop only if the vampires would cease to exist.
    And now after we heard HW’s will > I can’t die myself before destruction is complete…I have to hunt down purebloods who bring darkness to others…that’s the purpose of my existence. isn’t Cross talking about the same thing?
    I think he is … but we also see the Kurans’ notion through Juuri >>

    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-8.html

    However there is still the question; what triggered now after millennia HW’s rampage? Why this didn’t happen before? One factor that now exists and not in the past is Yuuki without being able to particularize it further though.

    So … was Kaname himself who triggered this on purpose in order to put an end once and for all?
    Was it Sara’s doings by turning humans and accumulating powers to dominate over the world?
    Was it a combination; like Kaname utilized Sara’s plan to trigger the mother metal in order to destroy it?
    What?

    If not then why Kaname didn’t annihilate the rest of the PBs BEFORE he goes at the HA?
    If his plan is to annihilate all the PBs wouldn’t have been better to go on, rather than going at the HA? No one was trying to stop him anyway, Sara was restrained inside the HA for the time being so he could have dealt with her later, the project with the tablets have been disclosed and the HW’s will would have been fulfilled and maybe her rampage could have been prevented.

    Thus I’m thinking that his timing seems weird O.O

    There is this fishy line from Sara that I never understood before;
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-13/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html
    How Sara judges that since Kaname is the ancestor he shall let her for now? I mean this knowledge about him how it affects her plan?

    Hm … I always wondered myself but while I was writing a thought crossed my mind.
    Could Sara meant that since Kaname is the ancestor is bound to fulfill HW’s will and thus he wouldn’t touch her (for the time being at least) since she was aiding him on that task?
    Didn’t Takuma say more or less the same thing to Kaname at the academy as you also pointed out?? >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-79-page-28.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-79-page-29.html

    It’s like Takuma suggesting to Kaname to leave his task as the ancestor to fulfill HW’s will on Sara, isn’t it?

    And now I’m thinking … could Sara have had betted on the wrong horse there???
    Could Takuma with his info about Kaname to have had misled her unintentionally?

    Don’t know just a thought lol

    Another question … Is the “curse” of the HW still active or no?
    But even if the HW is gone for good and the hunters have lost their weapons i.e. and their power to kill; can Kaname leave the rest of the PBs alive leaving the possibility to repeat the history itself moreover if there won’t be hunters?

    One thing is for sure … by “destroying” the HW or taken upon him the responsibility to succeed the HW he saved Yuuki’s life but what about the rest of the PBs? Is he bound to continue or there is a way out?

    Thus I’m going back on the timing of Kaname’s intrusion at the HA as a key point again.

    Even if Kaname intends to carry on – compelled from the “curse” which in’t destroyed completely or cuz he can’t leave the world with PBs and without hunters or for any other reason that I cannot think of lol – if we look the situation plot-wise I think that Hino’s timing to put Kaname inside the HA opens a window for a way out … a way out that perhaps is Yuuki’s role to find and accomplish.

    Because I’m thinking as Sara said; Yuuki is Kaname’s light and salvation and it is kinda what Aido-dono said to Yuuki as well.

    So if Hino intends to put Yuuki to save the day now is the perfect timing >

    - Sara is gone so this circle has come to its end
    - The project HW/HA seems destroyed or at least Yuuki is saved since Kaname is the one who will succeed the HW.
    - And most importantly there are still PBs alive

    Hence if Yuuki is destined as the heroine to save something now is the time cuz if for example Kaname kills all the PBs what is she gonna save; only Kaname from his death? I don’t think so.

    Or even in the scenario that Kaname intends to succeed the HW by sacrificing himself to create new weapons which are gonna be controlled by him saving Yuuki, the PBs who do not turn humans and the hunters and he will accomplish that plan; again what is left for Yuuki to save???

    That’s why I’m thinking that the timing that Kaname made his move at the HA might be the window for a general salvation or else Yuuki’s role as the heroine would be a failure.





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

    juliet
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by juliet on Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:17 am

    nina wrote:@Jul very good analysis!! \0/

    Kaname: In order to protect her I need everyone to know of her existence… What he meant??? Any idea is welcomed lol

    haha, no ideas yet Nina...i guess the obvious that nobody should dare to harm her because you know explosive , so if the deal is a threat more metaphysic such as HW's will to kill all purebloods and if something activated that, then someone found a way to overpass this barrier? perhaps?





    And Juliet is right … seeing now clearly what the HW wants and what Yuuki represents we can assume that the two women are in polar opposite positions… both of them were into Kaname’s contradictions as figures … so was it inevitable a clash between them? And I do not mean a confrontation face to face but their opposite wills and where Yuuki’s actions could have led (???) >>
    According to Kaname to Yuuki’s death/sacrifice >> did Yuuki’s decision to grab her Artemis going to the outside world motivated to make a difference; played a role to Kaname’s decision?

    Here I have an observation to make; Why Artemis does not effect Yuuki? or does not transfer her HW’s will, as with Kaname or Zero or the rest of the hunters?

    Kaman’s question “Can’t you feel it as you wield that weapon? Killing the pureblood are her desires”, suggests that Yuuki should be feeling the desires of the HW. Yet, Yuuki is unaffected and actually has the same impression that we had that HW did not wish the total destruction of the pureblood, an impression that is no longer valid. So what is happening there?

    Is Artemis the only weapon that is uneffected? Did Hino make a mistake here, after insisting on the “cursed” weapons and exposing their hostility at certain chapters?
    But the same thing was happening and with her mother Yuuri...whereas Haruka we never saw him featuring a weapon> so the Kuran females are the only ones that can wield the weapons without being effected by them?
    Is this what Hino tell us?

    As an observation; Yuuki’s stance to make a difference and stop any unnecessary sacrifices in combination with the factor that she is trully unaffected from the weapons is a trait rather unwanted for HW and her extermination plans. Add to that the great influence that Yuuki has on Kaname who wanted to rest with her, HW desires had no chances of being fulfilled. Zero on the other hand had managed to tame his own feelings and agreed to act only upon an official reason. So who is the factor that sets all reels into motion again for the plan “elimination of the pureblood” to come forward?


    Alternatives yes … and I don’t think that these alternatives regarded only Yuuki.
    - His choice to go into slumber instead of fulfilling HW’s will in the far past could have been another alternative that he was seeking. If Kaname wanted the same thing as the HW or was so important for him (for emotional reasons) to fulfill her will then why he didn’t do it back then when moreover he was alone and with nothing to lose?
    - The monarchy, the Kurans’ philosophy and the rule that no one should change humans into vampires. All these choices allowed the PBs to go on living for millennia, creating families and in extension the vampires’ society with level B, C, D as it is now.

    Could all these have been his efforts to set, let’s say, in “slumber” the will of the HW?

    IMO and with the info that we have so far the answer is yes cuz all that was his doings and were coming clearly in contrast with what the HW wanted. Thus Kaname in a sense tried to negate or reverse the inevitable (as it seems now) i.e. the annihilation of all the PBs?

    Very likely...

    It was Kaname's role and responsibility, a task that HW had placed in his solders and it seems that he and the rest of the Kuran family did their best to protect all sides by establishing a monarchy and later on progressing even further with establishing the council and even now progressing society a step further, creating the blood tablets.

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/84/2 > wise words from Aidou who questions about the blood tablets and their services, they are meant to protect both humans but also vampires.


    Same thoughts here Jul … I was reading again the volume 12 … the extra chapter about Cross’s past as a fearful hunter takes another meaning now. (for whoever wants to refresh its memory >
    HERE

    The most juicy parts >>

    Cross: One day I’ll burn those photos and wipe out every one of you
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-5.html

    Juuri: Do you mean that? You intend to kill every one of us?

    Cross: Our job will be done once we annihilate you… and this godforsaken curse I have may disappear once you’re gone. Surely I’m allowed that dream, right?
    (I did tell her it was my dream but it was a dark dream and there was no hope of it coming true.


    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-6.html

    Cross back then clearly states and wishes what all the hunters want > the annihilation of the vampires > HW’s will. But on the same time he is seeking for a way out of that curse >>

    Godforsaken curse … a curse that Cross was tired of and he thought that it might stop only if the vampires would cease to exist.
    And now after we heard HW’s will > I can’t die myself before destruction is complete…I have to hunt down purebloods who bring darkness to others…that’s the purpose of my existence. isn’t Cross talking about the same thing?
    I think he is … but we also see the Kurans’ notion through Juuri >>

    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-59.5-page-8.html

    The resemblance is spooky...once i read the lines, yes it's talking about a curse. It's talking about killing all purebloods and more than this it seems that Kaien does not want this role> goes to extreme to get rid of it, also reminded me of Kaname and his decision to enter slumber releasing himself from that obligation that had been placed upon his shoulders.

    Kaname seems to be tired by that “Nemesis” role, he does not like it, has realized or experienced the consequences of that role;

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

    Going to eternal slumber not only shows that he had reached a dead-end.
    Perhaps due to this role, his memories were not pleasant, so when Rido revives him, he erases all the past...from his mind> perhaps another effort to erase this role and responsibility from himself, to lift that “curse” in a way? or break the bond with his older nature?

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-11/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html

    However there is still the question; what triggered now after millennia HW’s rampage? Why this didn’t happen before? One factor that now exists and not in the past is Yuuki without being able to particularize it further though.

    So … was Kaname himself who triggered this on purpose in order to put an end once and for all?
    Was it Sara’s doings by turning humans and accumulating powers to dominate over the world?
    Was it a combination; like Kaname utilized Sara’s plan to trigger the mother metal in order to destroy it?
    What?

    If not then why Kaname didn’t annihilate the rest of the PBs BEFORE he goes at the HA?
    If his plan is to annihilate all the PBs wouldn’t have been better to go on, rather than going at the HA? No one was trying to stop him anyway, Sara was restrained inside the HA for the time being so he could have dealt with her later, the project with the tablets have been disclosed and the HW’s will would have been fulfilled and maybe her rampage could have been prevented.

    Thus I’m thinking that his timing seems weird O.O

    Not so weird, seeing his effort to release himself from that role in the past, his hesitation to complete it (a hesitation that he repeatedly mentioned throughout the chapters), the efforts that he put in the society and even the new life that Kaname had counted to have with Yuuki, the guilts that he had wanted to share with her to clear himself, everything pintpoint in the opposite direction that Kaname did not want to kill the purebloods. Not only for them but also for himself; Kaname's paradise was here, in these lines;

    “My hands are far more tainted than you think. Can you stand these hands touching you everyday?...”

    Kaman’s thoughts: “How many countless nights...did i spend in vain? I have finally got hold of the girl i love, and with whom i will be spending million of nights”...

    Kaname had quit from that role, but then something happened; something that forced him to take that responsibility again. When he visits the HA at this timing that you refer, it's not weird, IMO, it's the golden opportunity to take advantage of all the conditions there that shall contribute to HW's awakening and destroy her or stop her action; to prevent any more killing. Now he took that under his control, he can control the game and possible be able to protect. So perhaps as he cut his bond with Rido, now he also cut his bond with HW since she was released from that role. What worries me is that she said that she can't rest until the elimination of all; so what does that mean? is she destroyed or not? is he still bound to her will? this point i do not understand yet. I need to see it in order to believe it, LOL.


    Hm … I always wondered myself but while I was writing a thought crossed my mind.
    Could Sara meant that since Kaname is the ancestor is bound to fulfill HW’s will and thus he wouldn’t touch her (for the time being at least) since she was aiding him on that task?
    Didn’t Takuma say more or less the same thing to Kaname at the academy as you also pointed out?? >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-79-page-28.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-79-page-29.html

    It’s like Takuma suggesting to Kaname to leave his task as the ancestor to fulfill HW’s will on Sara, isn’t it?

    Yes, Sara there is looking how to save her head and also seems to have prepared him a trade; She shall replace him so that the plan to be completed (Hey Zero that was your call there), and Kaname can hit the road with Yuuki. She is actually offering him the freedom so that she can be queen with Kaname;s blessings.

    “Yuuki-Chan said that she believes in you. Because it’s about you. Something going on isn’t that so?”
    So even stating it, it's like actually fully confessing that she led him at this point where he can not act otherwise in order to blackmail him.

    And now I’m thinking … could Sara have had betted on the wrong horse there???
    Could Takuma with his info about Kaname to have had misled her unintentionally?

    Perhaps Sara thought that Kaname's plan was to kill all purebloods and not to destroy the mother metal you mean? perhaps...Perhaps she thought that Kaname shall be so determined to finish all purebloods, because he is moving out of pure necessity, due perhaps to the conditions that she created(?) and she offered him a gate out,that normally should sound like a paradise...but it does not, perhaps because Kaname if he took her proposal would miss the opportunity to find a way for the destruction of that "curse". I am wondering though how Sara offer such a trade, can she kill purebloods? Seriously Zero is not the solution or she thought that Kaname would offer her his power so she could also be officially Queen? and also protected from HW? (she thought perhaps that HW would not harm the Kuran lineage since they are answering to her call?) or simply put her bets on Zero?

    if we look the situation plot-wise I think that Hino’s timing to put Kaname inside the HA opens a window for a way out … a way out that perhaps is Yuuki’s role to find and accomplish.

    Because I’m thinking as Sara said; Yuuki is Kaname’s light and salvation and it is kinda what Aido-dono said to Yuuki as well.

    So if Hino intends to put Yuuki to save the day now is the perfect timing >

    - Sara is gone so this circle has come to its end
    - The project HW/HA seems destroyed or at least Yuuki is saved since Kaname is the one who will succeed the HW.
    - And most importantly there are still PBs alive

    Hence if Yuuki is destined as the heroine to save something now is the time cuz if for example Kaname kills all the PBs what is she gonna save; only Kaname from his death? I don’t think so.

    Or even in the scenario that Kaname intends to succeed the HW by sacrificing himself to create new weapons which are gonna be controlled by him saving Yuuki, the PBs who do not turn humans and the hunters and he will accomplish that plan; again what is left for Yuuki to save???

    That’s why I’m thinking that the timing that Kaname made his move at the HA might be the window for a general salvation or else Yuuki’s role as the heroine would be a failure.

    We need more information on that...I am lost...what works...what does not work...I do not know...I think though that now we can see the past more clearly and all elements just give so hard the element of necessity for Kaname to act the way that he did;

    Kaname to Yuuki: After I started having doubts, I decided to live out time with you. But it seems ...I must carry out what i had originally planned...”

    This must expresses a necessity. Why there is a must? What lead him into changing his opinion?

    There must have been a reason good enough to persuade Ruka and something that as Ruka says even Hanabusa, whose father was killed by Kaman’s hand to be able to understand...

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/80/6
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/80/7

    And Kain also to co-operate understanding as he says the seriousness of the situation;

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/80/8

    And Hanabusa’s father who first expressed his objections to Sara and also to Kaname about a war between pureblood and sacrifices, and also shared his concerns with Yuuki and pleaded her to stop Kaname (from interfering into anything I can guess), what convinced that man to be the first one that would be sacrificed ?

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-8/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/21
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/33

    My initial idea was that perhaps Kaname sensed that HW would kill all purebloods and the time that she would be acting against all was approaching and set out to reach this point here in order to prevent the worst; to take under control the situation so that Yuuki would be safe.

    I also have the feeling that Sara seems to have triggered certain actions basing her plan on Tacoma’s information and revelations about Kaname. The greatest revelation though is the one of the ancestor and there she to have step in order to create conditions that would force him to follow his original plan. If so, then Sara was aware of the bond that Kaname had with the HW, or his ancient role and sets out a plan, challenging him to take action.


    From Kaname's part he may have overlooked Sara's actions at the start, as he considers that she knows about his role (after all she had Takuma there) and Sara also notices that when she wonders who of the two is playing the more danger game. It's also a strong possibility that Kaname sees the desperation into all of these as he knows that in order to finish HW and the metal he may need to go in great depths, it's risky, it's hard, but he can't miss the opportunity, if they are all threatened and Sara is so naive to believe that Kaname let her be just because she would offer him the chance to get rid of that role or curse and was eager to replace him, well... she got what she deserved...as Kaname would say...LOL

    many theories came up with this chapter but my curiosity is so eager...want more...






    I' ll show you a sweet dream next time

    nina
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by nina on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:20 pm

    Juliet wrote: haha, no ideas yet Nina...i guess the obvious that nobody should dare to harm her because you know , so if the deal is a threat more metaphysic such as HW's will to kill all purebloods and if something activated that, then someone found a way to overpass this barrier? perhaps?

    Okay … if the meaning of his words was the obvious one, then this is another clue which perhaps shows that Kaname at that point had indeed the intention to stay put as the leader of the vampires having beside him Yuuki so he wanted everyone to know her existence in order not to dare anyone to harm her.
    Because as I see it his decision later to leave her and put in motion his plan rather hinder her position in the society as a Kuran since she was the fiancée of a dangerous PB.
    However though if that was his plan it didn’t work that much >> see Touma’s attack on her exactly because she was a Kuran.
    And since we wonder about Yuuki, her existence and role in all these, and if and how could be “connected” with the HW’s nemesis >>

    Here I have an observation to make; Why Artemis does not effect Yuuki? or does not transfer her HW’s will, as with Kaname or Zero or the rest of the hunters?

    Kaman’s question “Can’t you feel it as you wield that weapon? Killing the pureblood are her desires”, suggests that Yuuki should be feeling the desires of the HW. Yet, Yuuki is unaffected and actually has the same impression that we had that HW did not wish the total destruction of the pureblood, an impression that is no longer valid. So what is happening there?

    As an observation; Yuuki’s stance to make a difference and stop any unnecessary sacrifices in combination with the factor that she is trully unaffected from the weapons is a trait rather unwanted for HW and her extermination plans.

    If I may add to your observations;

    1. Touma attacks on her because >
    Touma: Now listen! The stage is finally getting set for a bloody scene that is much more to my liking. So you get it?
    Don’t hamper my enjoyment of watching the drama unfold.


    How Touma knew Yuuki’s pacifying intentions; only from her act to play the reaper? Or how a powerless b i t c h as he says could stop this bloodshed?
    Or exactly because she was a female Kuran with a certain traditionally pacifying role to play?
    And in any case this signifies that at least some of the PBs did not accept Kaname as their leader i.e. they wanted a bloodshed. Remember, Cross’s question to Kaname; if the vampires will accept him after the extermination of the senate?
    Sara is another one.

    2. As you said … Juuri and Yuuki seem unaffected from Artemis and Yuuki has also HW’s blood inside her (via Kaname) and still she doesn’t get HW’s msg, she stays unaffected from that curse, so why?
    Could it be her blood? Sort of like what happened with Sara’s blood/tablets? We saw how Yuuki’s blood negates Sara’s blood which btw contains Ouri’s and Hanadagi’s power together.

    So could it be Yuuki’s own existence which would eventually provoke/waken up HW’s nemesis; especially in an environment which simulates the past with Sara’s efforts???

    It was Kaname's role and responsibility, a task that HW had placed in his solders and it seems that he and the rest of the Kuran family did their best to protect all sides by establishing a monarchy and later on progressing even further with establishing the council and even now progressing society a step further, creating the blood tablets.

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/84/2 > wise words from Aidou who questions about the blood tablets and their services, they are meant to protect both humans but also vampires.

    Very good observation Jul!

    The resemblance is spooky...once i read the lines, yes it's talking about a curse. It's talking about killing all purebloods and more than this it seems that Kaien does not want this role> goes to extreme to get rid of it, also reminded me of Kaname and his decision to enter slumber releasing himself from that obligation that had been placed upon his shoulders.

    Right. And Kaien seems the only hunter who managed to liberate himself from that bloody curse. How and when? Wasn’t because of love? He saw the love between Juuri and Haruka and it was a love on a first sight as he says.
    Could it be the same case for Kaname too in the past and in the present? >>

    Add to that the great influence that Yuuki has on Kaname who wanted to rest with her, HW desires had no chances of being fulfilled


    Both Kaname and Cross tried to find a way out > the monarchy, the slumber, the rules, Kaname's thought to sacrifice himself to turn Yuuki into a human again, the tablets, the academy … all these were efforts against HW’s will.
    So could it be the mother of the Kurans who made that difference; thus and her females descendants are unaffected from HW’s curse? And I mean it in a more symbolic way from Hino to imply things.

    Another observation here which might be relevant is this panel >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-84-page-6.html

    It was as no one could tear them apart

    The background in this panel is the HA i.e. the core of the mother metal … is this another innuendo from Hino about what “tear them apart”; i.e. HW’s will/curse?
    And to stretch it further … using an image of them both which one could say that it could have been from a far past … isn’t Yuuki like a queen in that pic?

    When he visits the HA at this timing that you refer, it's not weird, IMO, it's the golden opportunity to take advantage of all the conditions there that shall contribute to HW's awakening and destroy her or stop her action; to prevent any more killing.

    Exactly my point ^^ That’s why I said it is weird because his timing is in contrast with the notion that Kaname indeed wanted to kill all the PBs. It is in contrast with what he also says that he wants to eliminate all the PBs … it is in contrast with his action to not kill Touma or Isaya for example.
    Some of his actions and his timing contradict his words and the impression that he worked to build about his intentions.

    Now if he indeed wanted to destroy the mother metal in order to save what he can save then yes his timing makes perfect sense ^^

    What worries me is that she said that she can't rest until the elimination of all; so what does that mean? is she destroyed or not? is he still bound to her will? this point i do not understand yet. I need to see it in order to believe it, LOL.

    Same here … I’m confused with that too i.e. if Kaname is still compelled/bound to her will in some way. Because she left behind at least 3 weapons thus I tend to think that these weapons should still function. (???)
    If so then does this mean that Kaname ain’t totally free from this curse?

    Perhaps Sara thought that Kaname's plan was to kill all purebloods and not to destroy the mother metal you mean? perhaps...

    Yup … this is exactly what I meant. And if so then her knowledge about Kaname being the ancestor suddenly takes a whole other gravity. And it seems that Sara had built up all of her plan upon that information as Hino highlighted in the beginning of her plan > Ouri’s murder.
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-13.html

    I always wondered why it was so important for Sara the fact that Kaname was an ancestor.

    Perhaps she thought that Kaname shall be so determined to finish all purebloods, because he is moving out of pure necessity, due perhaps to the conditions that she created(?)

    Yup … first she creates conditions that compelled Kaname to take action or better to pick up again his role of the far past. Maybe she also wanted to provoke or activate HW’s nemesis … or to say it better to corner Kaname that if he wouldn’t pick up his role again to fulfill HW’s will then Yuuki would be in danger?
    And then when it wouldn’t be any other path but to kill the PBs she offers him the way out as you also said >>

    and she offered him a gate out,that normally should sound like a paradise..

    Reading again the chapters about the far past of the progenitors and the conditions that drove the HW to her sacrifice I found many similarities with the conditions that Sara tried to simulate >>

    I’m worried … there are those who are creating servants indiscriminately.

    They say it’s both sides want but…
    (volume 13)

    Isn’t what Sara did exactly with her harem? She was creating servants with the pretext that this was consensual! Not to mention the prisoners, the president of the pharmaceutical company and her tablets later.

    This could have been another signal that she was sending to Kaname though knowing his past. Here what Aido-dono also says to him >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-65-page-33.html

    Yagari as well >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-76-page-16.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-76-page-17.html

    And the HW in the past who IMO at that phase she was bossing Kaname around, however it shows the role that she was preparing for him>>

    - I have something to ask of you in return. I need your help
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-62-page-32.html

    - Keep a level head. I’m relying on you
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-63-page-15.html

    - You said you would use your powers to stop them. Go!
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-63-page-18.html


    - The number of the humans have finally increased but more than half our members are already thinking about turning every human into one of our own. No, not like us… they want loyal slaves
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-63-page-17.html

    Isn’t what Sara wanted as well? >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-78-page-30.html
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-78-page-31.html

    The question is though; why Kaname let it escalate? Why he didn’t stop her after Ouri’s murder? If Hino doesn’t provide any concrete reason for that then the only that I could assume is that Kaname saw Sara’s plan as the opportunity to lead the things here that we stand now i.e. to the destruction of HW’s curse. In other words Sara fell in her own trap.

    I am wondering though how Sara offer such a trade, can she kill purebloods? Seriously Zero is not the solution or she thought that Kaname would offer her his power so she could also be officially Queen? and also protected from HW? (she thought perhaps that HW would not harm the Kuran lineage since they are answering to her call?) or simply put her bets on Zero?

    I think that she indeed was betting on Zero cuz even for the trade to be valid she should have a killing machine since on her own couldn’t kill PBs. So, or Kaname would have taken her offer or she would use Zero to kill Kaname. She also was counting on her blood and how through it she would be able to control Zero as she did with Takuma >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-78-page-29.html

    >> and then making Zero her weapon >>
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-78-page-31.html

    Ofc now that her plan didn’t work seems kinda naïve but if her plan was flawless then it would have come to fruition so it was inevitable that somewhere she would fail.

    I think though that now we can see the past more clearly and all elements just give so hard the element of necessity for Kaname to act the way that he did;

    Kaname to Yuuki: After I started having doubts, I decided to live out time with you. But it seems ...Imust carry out what i had originally planned...”

    This must expresses a necessity. Why there is a must? What lead him into changing his opinion?


    I agree and my feeling is that we miss a piece of the puzzle here … but if I had to bet I would say that this piece is connected with Yuuki’s existence and her role>>

    -Yuuki: He (Kaname) left this (Artemis) with me probably because he wanted to see what I’d do.
    Something only I can do…

    If I don’t do something this world will consume me…


    So what is that ONLY Yuuki can do? scratch

    And something lastly … why Kaname went where Takuma was in the end? Could it be an opportunity to have an insight from Kaname at least regarding Sara’s plan since it seems that was based on Takuma’s info?





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

    juliet
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by juliet on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:03 pm

    I think Kaname's plan its becoming now more transparent; since he knew that HW had wished for the extermination of all the purebloods, he should find a way to secure and save Yuuki, even if that meant that he had to succeed her. And now Hino leaves a window that the other pure bloods can be saved as well? I am talking about the fully innocent ones like Shoutou for example.

    If Kaname's plan was just to fulfill HW' wishes, did he even needed an opportunity or excuse to do it? either in the past or now in the present, if he had wanted so much to satisfy her intentions, then why didn't he?

    He could kill Ouri, take the powers, kill Hanadagi, then Touma, then Hio...who else is left? yes, and then commit a suicide in order not to kill Yuuki. Why to go back and fourth? Let Ouri, then kill Hana, spare Touma then throw him at Cross? Hio seemed to be available all the time also. So why now all of these incoherent actions?

    Neither in the past he would have expressed the wish to Kain to turn Yuuki into human again, because since he would be dead, then how would he fulfill HW's wishes?

    So there must be something more or else it does not make sense..

    Especially his intention to change Yuuki in the past shows that what he had in mind was to guarantee Yuuki's safety and do nothing concerning HW’ wishes; sacrificing one self (what greatest evidence there is that you love someone deeply and unconditionally) to save another soul.

    So his view was fatalistic about it.

    Then again Takuma at the car says to Kaname about the existence of the twins. And Takuma there appreciates that this moment could have been the beginning of Kaman’s plans. And I wonder if this means that perhaps Kaname saw in Zero a hunter that could eliminate all pureblood (so fulfill HW’s wishes) and that meant that Kaname could be free of this role so he could indeed save Yuuki and himself, and eventually have a life.

    And to explain it I do not mean it in a bad sense > perhaps Kaman’s ultimate wish would be Zero to be the one that could succeed him in his role to keep the pure bloods under control (?), in any case that would also prevent HW’s rampage.

    Cross is the one that gives to Zero BR so perhaps this is not a coincidence and we were always wondering why Kaname allowed to a hunter to live next to Yuuki.
    So his plan to create a forceful hunter with his own characteristics (powerful to kill but with a soft side for Yuuki) starts....



    About Yuuki’s intentions and role;

    Yuuki was really standing alone there...if we see it from another angle, if Kaname did not proceed with the plan, sooner or later HW would finish all purebloods since their war games could really menace the humans as Yagari noticed and warned;

    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-76-page-17.html

    Yuuki could stand right in the middle > right in the middle of chaos >
    I like your comment about Yuuki; I think that Yuuki with her pacifism ideas is a hindrance to everyone and since HW wants all purebloods to be destroyed, we know now that she is/was a hindrance even to her own salvation....

    But will she accept such a salvation if she finds out that Kaname is ready to sacrifice himself for her?

    Would she even have accepted that HW had desired the extermination of all in the past if Kaname had explained that to her or would she try to rescue the day and inevitably be dead one way or another?

    As you said … Juuri and Yuuki seem unaffected from Artemis and Yuuki has also HW’s blood inside her (via Kaname) and still she doesn’t get HW’s msg, she stays unaffected from that curse, so why?
    Could it be her blood? Sort of like what happened with Sara’s blood/tablets? We saw how Yuuki’s blood negates Sara’s blood which btw contains Ouri’s and Hanadagi’s power together. So could it be Yuuki’s own existence which would eventually provoke/waken up HW’s nemesis; especially in an environment which simulates the past with Sara’s efforts???

    She seems to break spells, resist HW’ wishes, dissolve bad effects so her main power could be to neutralize all effects...

    So I am wondering, if Yuuki knew that HW wishes are to exterminate all pureblood and new that Kaname is bound to her will and that the weapons were cursed, in her effort to save Kaname and the rest of the pureblood, could she use her own life to create weapons and so neutralize the curse of the weapons? Could that have been the main sacrifice that kaname is afraid?

    So again like a repetition in the past, he is running this time, ahead of time to sacrifice himself first?

    I do not know, just theories but as you say and i agree, Yuuki has to play a role, to prove that finally there is something that only she can do, so we are left to see it.

    I think that Mariangie had mentioned that Yuuki with her breaking spell powers could release Kaname from Rido, but right now the menace is HW> could Yuuki find a way (different than the one that kaname thinks) to break his spell and save the day for all?

    Still there are many exits that i see, especially since Hino has left many unanswered scenes and there are cues, lines, events that Hino can take advantage of in order to create a twist, because I can not see that she has given us the end already in hand.

    More than this Kain, Ruka, Hanadagi's guardian, Touma are now here to answer some things > so we might be moving to a resolution....

    And more than this, is this going to be epic or what? Razz

    @Takuma> I think that Takuma knows more details than everyone about Kaname's plan and Sara's plan > so perhaps Kaname wants to secure him at least by his side. I still hope that Takuma shall come around to his back self...









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    nina
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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by nina on Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:48 pm

    Kara wrote: None-the-less, I'm still intrigued as to how events might progress from this point forward; especially now that Sara is out of the picture. Shocked Does Sara's death signify the end of the corrupt blood tablet plot-line? What about the girls of Sara's harem? What will be Takuma's next move now that he is no longer affixed to Sara's side?


    Hm maybe not entirely and I mean that probably there is still need for new tablets which can reverse/negate Sara’s tabs effects. I’m not sure but I base my assumptions on the fact that Hino brought back the topic with the tablets in the previous chapter –putting Aido thinking about it- so I assume that she’ll have to address this issue even though Sara is dead.

    Maybe also she’ll use a potential chaos in the city to distract us from Yuuki’s resolution about Kaname gaining time (???) lol.

    About her harem … I think it would be alright meaning that the girls will go on living as Level-D vampires without the danger to fall into Level-es because as we saw Sara shared her blood with them so I want to believe that they are stabilized.
    I suppose she did the same with the president of the pharmaceutical company just because she needed him sane and associable to develop her tablets.

    However I don’t know about her prisoners… they might have a different fate. pale

    Juliet wrote: And more than this, is this going to be epic or what? Razz

    Indeed
    Hino has left many things unexplained and many loopholes into Kaname’s reasoning and actions. And ain’t only us who wonder and questioning things here but it been also Yuuki. So I guess there must be a point for doing that. Or else the plot will be flat. And I cannot imagine that she wants a flat/predictable climax without having hidden ace on her sleeve ^^

    @Takuma> I think that Takuma knows more details than everyone about Kaname's plan and Sara's plan > so perhaps Kaname wants to secure him at least by his side. I still hope that Takuma shall come around to his back self...

    I hope he will cuz I really couldn’t stand him like Hino portrayed him AFTER he drank from Sara in chapter 73. So hopefully after he cut off the “drugs” Razz he’ll come to his senses ^^

    Anyway … I would be satisfied even if Hino will give us an insight of Kaname using Takuma there exactly cuz he knows much more as you said.
    And maybe a bitter or angry Takuma can pull off more info from Kaname … he is still very emotional to think rational at the moment … at least this is the vibe I got from his face lol.

    However your thought that Kaname might want to “seal” his lips and take him by his side makes sense too, even though Kaname also gives me the vibe that he wants to proceed alone from now on >> f.e. Ruka and Kain ... doesn't he care for what they can tell as well?

    More than this Kain, Ruka, Hanadagi's guardian, Touma are now here to answer some things > so we might be moving to a resolution....

    Very good observation \0/ … they should start talking now that are all “free”!
    And this parallel liberation of all these sources can’t be random. scratch
    Maybe Hino will use them to tie up some of the loose ends … especially Ruka. She wanted anyway in the previous chapters to talk and explain to Aido. So maybe she’ll do that now.





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by juliet on Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:33 pm

    Hm maybe not entirely and I mean that probably there is still need for new tablets which can reverse/negate Sara’s tabs effects. I’m not sure but I base my assumptions on the fact that Hino brought back the topic with the tablets in the previous chapter –putting Aido thinking about it- so I assume that she’ll have to address this issue even though Sara is dead.

    I am afraid that she can use the tablets to postpone action in the next chapter...but perhaps there is also more in this plan, considering the plan that we have no found out yet...

    However your thought that Kaname might want to “seal” his lips and take him by his side makes sense too, even though Kaname also gives me the vibe that he wants to proceed alone from now on >> f.e. Ruka and Kain ... doesn't he care for what they can tell as well?

    I doubt that they know all extensions of Kaname's plan. Logically Ruka and Kain may know that Kaname had to fulfill /was bound to fulfill HW's will and perhaps that is why Ruka said at the ancestor's crypt/masoleum that she is pity of him...

    Takuma though may know more, may know the absolute reason why Kaname set out to this plan> this is implied from the fact that Sara had kept Takuma by her side and stepped on the knowledege that Kaname was the ancestor in order to form her plan. I think that Takuma has the better insight of all and in Sara's and in Kaname's plan. So he might be a piece that Kaname wants to gather...or at least i hope so, even though that means that the anticipation will go on and Hino shall prolong the torture...

    perhaps it would be better if Takuma had stayed there to shed light to Yuuki and the rest of the vampires... Razz

    She wanted anyway in the previous chapters to talk and explain to Aido. So maybe she’ll do that now.
    Isn't it about that we have some kind of explantion...what Aido-dono was told and persuaded to sacrifice himself, despite his beliefs that wars should be prevented, and what potentially Aidou should also understand...if anything is just explained by HW's wishes to kill all purebloods and also Kaname's intention to fulfill them, why so much mystery? what for?

    meanwhile Hanadagi, Touma and Hio are purebloods that were introduced and referredor had interactions with characters before their final attack...if the point was just killing the purebloods, why didn't Hino showed randomn purebloods without introductions and references?

    no the plain "kill them all" explanation does not satisfy me and does not cover the logical assumptions that are opened by the plot.

    HW's wishes was a fact given in the chapter that we had not taken into consideration at all, since Hino covered her wishes masterfully and we thought what Yuuki also thought...so I am wondering there are many points that we are mislead as well? could be...






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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

    Post by nina on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:30 pm

    Juliet wrote: I am afraid that she can use the tablets to postpone action in the next chapter...but perhaps there is also more in this plan, considering the plan that we have no found out yet...

    Hm maybe a chaos in the town could be utilized to become wide known the existence of vampires or maybe Sara’s plan can have more implications even with her dead. For example we never learnt what she wanted to do or done with the prisoners; what was the use of them?

    I doubt that they know all extensions of Kaname's plan. Logically Ruka and Kain may know that Kaname had to fulfill /was bound to fulfill HW's will and perhaps that is why Ruka said at the ancestor's crypt/masoleum that she is pity of him...

    Takuma though may know more, may know the absolute reason why Kaname set out to this plan> this is implied from the fact that Sara had kept Takuma by her side and stepped on the knowledege that Kaname was the ancestor in order to form her plan.

    My feeling is that none of them had/has the whole picture of Kaname’s plan but every one of them knows a part of it … like everyone is keeping one piece of the puzzle.
    However I agree that Takuma probably know more from the rest but I also have the feeling that he might have had misled Sara, unintentionally though, about Kaname’s aiming hence and every attempt of her to stop Kaname failed.

    Isn't it about that we have some kind of explantion...what Aido-dono was told and persuaded to sacrifice himself, despite his beliefs that wars should be prevented, and what potentially Aidou should also understand...if anything is just explained by HW's wishes to kill all purebloods and also Kaname's intention to fulfill them, why so much mystery? what for?

    And in any case IMO HW’s wishes do not explain or justify Aido-dono’s “sacrifice” or Ruka/Kain’s acceptance of this sacrifice.
    Why; wasn’t there any other way for Aido-dono to be saved? Or what’s the meaning of the small talk between him and Kaname? I mean if the guy was about to be sacrificed what’s the reason of an explanation? To understand what; that he had to be sacrificed for a greater good? If so then I find this explanation petty…

    no the plain "kill them all" explanation does not satisfy me and does not cover the logical assumptions that are opened by the plot.

    HW's wishes was a fact given in the chapter that we had not taken into consideration at all, since Hino covered her wishes masterfully and we thought what Yuuki also thought...so I am wondering there are many points that we are mislead as well? could be...

    Me either except if there is more than meets the eye.
    And neither HW’s wishes –even if they are compulsory in a way or another- do not satisfy me completely.
    Cuz I was thinking … except from the fact that Kaname chose the slumber instead of fulfilling her demands and even if we accept the assumption that this was a way for him to escape from that unwanted role/bond, still there is a bigger proof that contradicts the hypothesis that Kaname WANTS voluntarily to fulfill HW’s will above everything >> the fact that he made his own family! << This isn’t a path that defies HW’s wishes to the core?
    Regardless if Hino will ever give us this part of his past or the mysterious mother of the Kuran clan the fact remains the same >> he is the patriarch … the very first Kuran as Rido said i.e. he procreated … he continued a specie that should cease to exist according to HW’s will! If this isn’t the biggest defiance of HW’s will I do not know what is!(?) lol

    Not to mention that with the latest twist about HW I think the possibility of her to have been the mother of the Kuran clan are getting even slightest cuz I cannot imagine that a woman whose the core of her existence was the elimination of her own specie –as she says- would ever give birth to another PB; or worst than that, that she would attempt to kill her own descendant i.e. Yuuki < this would have been horrendous!

    Except if her will deviated from her initial purpose and I mean if at the very beginning she didn’t want the extermination of the entire PB’s race but only the PBs that turned humans thus and Yuuki formed the wrong idea about her wishes as we did.
    This could explain a lot but synchronously creates new questions:
    -When did this change happen and HW posed a threat for ALL the PBs?
    -When Kaname realized it; now or in the past? Cuz my feeling from Kaname’s line “I cannot feel her emotions in it (weapon) anymore only the desire to kill” is that he knew it, or suspected it from the far past. But even if he didn’t; how he realized it now; through the sword? Which brings me to another query >>
    - What was the catalyst now; Why the HW didn’t go in rampage for millennia?
    -Is it Yuuki; and her own existence? Because the only factor which was missing all these millennia is Yuuki and Kaname since he was in slumber.

    No, there must be something more that we miss here … because the plain explanation “kill them all” as Juliet pointed out not only contradicts facts of the story but also contradicts the common logic …





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    Re: Vampire Knight 85 FULL RAWS! AND FIRST TRANSLATION!

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