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Α forum dedicated to Hino's Matsuri best-seller manga Vampire Knight and the manga we love

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» Do you trust Hino?
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 02, 2022 12:37 am by juliet

» Our Kaname is here!! Vampire Knight memories chapter 38
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon May 02, 2022 12:35 am by juliet

» Vampire knight Memories 38
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 10, 2022 4:18 am by juliet

» Where to Find Vampire Knight Memories Translation
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 10, 2022 1:29 am by juliet

» The Final Countdown
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 09, 2022 11:43 pm by juliet

» New VK Chapter is HERE!
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» Links for Other Vampire Knight Forums and Sites that you like and enjoy!!
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 21, 2016 7:25 pm by Saphira_K

» VK Memories CH 6!
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18, 2016 6:13 pm by Saphira_K

» VK Memories
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 01, 2016 5:59 pm by Saphira_K

» New VK Chapter SPOILERS!
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 18, 2016 5:47 pm by Saphira_K

» New VK Bonus Ch!!
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 18, 2015 12:53 am by Saphira_K

» Translation of 'Fleeting Dreams'
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2015 2:20 am by Saphira_K

» Bunko Editions
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» New Vampire knight Extra
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2015 2:15 am by Saphira_K

» The Musical (Original and Revive)
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 23, 2015 2:40 am by Dreamiel

» NEW CHAPTER IN 2015?
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 01, 2015 12:16 am by Unknown00

» Newbie in the forum...
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 01, 2015 7:13 pm by aisan4494

» Who do you think Yuki loves more: Kaname or Zero?
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 01, 2015 7:09 pm by aisan4494

» Zeki or Yume?
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri May 01, 2015 7:04 pm by aisan4494

» So What will happen of Kaname?
What kind of feeling? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 19, 2015 6:25 pm by matei alina

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would you like to read a sequel of vk?or is hino thinking of writing one?
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What kind of feeling? - Page 2 Bar_left15%What kind of feeling? - Page 2 Bar_right 15% [ 6 ]

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    What kind of feeling?

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    Post by Ribbon07 Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:50 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    In chapter 87, Yuuki said her feeling for Zero are real. But what do think what kind of feeling she means?

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    Post by RIchard Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:12 pm

    You took the note in the wrong way, they were not saying that the word it's self is only meant as romantic, what they are saying is the context of the word in that situation is romantic, mainly yuuki and zero kissing each other is what makes it mean romantic, in a situation like this no matter what word you use will imply the same thing rather it be love/like/cherish and so on.

    As fir why they would add it, cause they knew it could be taken in different context so they explained before why they chose the context they did. I don't speak or read Japanese my self but from what I hear it is a hard language and the meaning of a word can change depending on the other words around it or in the context it is used to describe. Then again all this is 2nd hand knowledge so I cant say for sure my self.

    Talk to your friend again and describe to him that the scene the text involves the man and the women kissing then ask him what it means, I am sure he will give you a different answer. You should never go on words alone when there are pictures to back it up.

    Any phrase you use can have it's meanings changed when added to the right imagery.
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    Post by kanachanimmortal Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:15 pm

    the feeling is romantic.i am definitely not getting any siblings vibes here.you don't kiss your brother if your feelings are siblings type.so sibling thing was never there.if she thinks him as a friend and then she is kissing him then she definitely don't deserve any of these guys.so only thing left is romantic love for zero.

    i think hino is trying to say that true love remains same even if it goes far away from you like yuuki left with kaname but it didn't erased their feelings and now when they reunited they are all ready to loose to their passions.the only victim here is kaname.kaname saw in her bloodt his passion and decided to let himself get killed by yuuki so that he doesn't become an obstacle in zeki.


    this is the only explanation i am getting with this stupid chapter.
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    Post by kanachanimmortal Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:26 pm

    juliet wrote:
    also if zero was her hero from beginning for her useless heroine yuuki,then i must say hino has no writing skills.i can say stephanie meyer proved herself better.atleast in twilight,we are sure of character's feelings.here one day oh zero,next day oh kaname,other day i want to be alone,another day its again oh kaname.to be frank it has become sick for both fandoms.and there are characters which are doing nothing but sitting and having tea.where is seiren?why yuuki didn't asked her about kaname's plans?why aidou don't ask rukain for the reason of dono's death?
    so many cheap plot holes.

    that right now exist without reason, i agree...all secondary characters are back now, they should be asked "what's the deal? what's the game"? that way a normal character looking for answer, perhaps Zero, not Yuuki alone would progress.

    To not risk her surprise Hino could perhaps not show the answers but the progress should be obvious.

    The lack of these answers or lack of effort to get them, makes the plot seem unnatural and very technically plotted to keep readers in the dark. The same as the trolling plan; a set up device more than a real necessity of development of feelings;

    these gaps exists in the plot irrelevant to the end. Hino should have progressed smoother by now..

    @ Lucy have you doubled posted? i need to erase the one answer...please avoid doing so...

    this is my comp playing with me.sry i will keep that in mind.
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    Post by juliet Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:27 pm

    lucykaede wrote:
    juliet wrote:
    also if zero was her hero from beginning for her useless heroine yuuki,then i must say hino has no writing skills.i can say stephanie meyer proved herself better.atleast in twilight,we are sure of character's feelings.here one day oh zero,next day oh kaname,other day i want to be alone,another day its again oh kaname.to be frank it has become sick for both fandoms.and there are characters which are doing nothing but sitting and having tea.where is seiren?why yuuki didn't asked her about kaname's plans?why aidou don't ask rukain for the reason of dono's death?
    so many cheap plot holes.

    that right now exist without reason, i agree...all secondary characters are back now, they should be asked "what's the deal? what's the game"? that way a normal character looking for answer, perhaps Zero, not Yuuki alone would progress.

    To not risk her surprise Hino could perhaps not show the answers but the progress should be obvious.

    The lack of these answers or lack of effort to get them, makes the plot seem unnatural and very technically plotted to keep readers in the dark. The same as the trolling plan; a set up device more than a real necessity of development of feelings;

    these gaps exists in the plot irrelevant to the end. Hino should have progressed smoother by now..

    @ Lucy have you doubled posted? i need to erase the one answer...please avoid doing so...

    yes exactly.all secondary characters are back and they are just sitting there doing nothing.if yuuki makes an army then it will be easy to stop or kill whatever she wants to do.i am very much disappointed by the development and sudden development of zeki.yuuki grew love feelings for zero in one chapter.even bella took three books to discover that.i guess yuuki has grown very intelligent in discovering her feelings.lol. Twisted Evil

    @okay my mistake, i am in hurry and totally confused the threads...

    can you please re-write it to the correct thread? I shall return to erase it later...thanks.
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    Post by kanachanimmortal Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:29 pm

    juliet wrote:
    lucykaede wrote:
    juliet wrote:

    that right now exist without reason, i agree...all secondary characters are back now, they should be asked "what's the deal? what's the game"? that way a normal character looking for answer, perhaps Zero, not Yuuki alone would progress.

    To not risk her surprise Hino could perhaps not show the answers but the progress should be obvious.

    The lack of these answers or lack of effort to get them, makes the plot seem unnatural and very technically plotted to keep readers in the dark. The same as the trolling plan; a set up device more than a real necessity of development of feelings;

    these gaps exists in the plot irrelevant to the end. Hino should have progressed smoother by now..

    @ Lucy have you doubled posted? i need to erase the one answer...please avoid doing so...

    yes exactly.all secondary characters are back and they are just sitting there doing nothing.if yuuki makes an army then it will be easy to stop or kill whatever she wants to do.i am very much disappointed by the development and sudden development of zeki.yuuki grew love feelings for zero in one chapter.even bella took three books to discover that.i guess yuuki has grown very intelligent in discovering her feelings.lol. Twisted Evil

    @okay my mistake, i am in hurry and totally confused the threads...

    can you please re-write it to the correct thread? I shall return to erase it later...thanks.

    sry i got confused in threads.my mistake.forgive me. Smile
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    Post by Duskola Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:43 pm

    RIchard wrote:You took the note in the wrong way, they were not saying that the word it's self is only meant as romantic, what they are saying is the context of the word in that situation is romantic, mainly yuuki and zero kissing each other is what makes it mean romantic, in a situation like this no matter what word you use will imply the same thing rather it be love/like/cherish and so on.

    As fir why they would add it, cause they knew it could be taken in different context so they explained before why they chose the context they did. I don't speak or read Japanese my self but from what I hear it is a hard language and the meaning of a word can change depending on the other words around it or in the context it is used to describe. Then again all this is 2nd hand knowledge so I cant say for sure my self.

    Talk to your friend again and describe to him that the scene the text involves the man and the women kissing then ask him what it means, I am sure he will give you a different answer. You should never go on words alone when there are pictures to back it up.

    Any phrase you use can have it's meanings changed when added to the right imagery.

    RIchard, you are right when you say that Japanese is a hard language with any sort of different shades in a single sentence, and that's exactly what my friend said when I wrote him the whole kanji sequence. That's why, after his first "non-romantic" interpretation, I explained him the whole scene and plot (spoilering a bit) and he didn't take back his interpretation, he only added that the sentence may be at least ambiguous. So, for him, the note is too "sure" and "absolute", even if it simply tries and contextualize a translation. I mean: we haven't seen her lips touching yet (as we have seen for Yume in lot of ways elsewhere). We still don't know the following words of "BUT...". Why the other translation teams, for example, didn't feel the need to state the opposite?

    "Suki can be used in this context to express some romantic feelings, but we chose to translate this with "cherish" or "fondness" in any case".

    If there truly is a matter of ambiguity in the sentence - you are right, we don't know Japanese, but this matter is very important and should be explained in every translation.

    And on top of that, translating this with "like" doesn't mean at all that Yuuki's feelings are not beginning to change or that the scene is less "romantic", so I can't understand the forcing. If I was a Zeki, I would have preferred the "like" because it's more consistent both with the sintax and the current plot - and here is the reference to Japanese culture my friend gave me. He asked me what words did Yuuki use to express her feelings for Kaname before, because if she truly used words with "AI", above all "AISHITERU", it's very hard that Hino could take them back with a simple "SUKI" because in Japanese culture is very hard to express one's feelings without being polite - with absolute open words. AND taking them back after a single chapter in which Yuuki said "I belong to Kaname" is absolutely out of discussion. So, Hino would not build only a frivolous character, but also a girl completely out from the habits of Japanese culture.

    So, as you say, even in Japanese sintax everything is still open lol!
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    Post by Fine of Fate Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:06 pm

    I remember Aidou telling Kaname that he liked "suki" him when they were kids.
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    Post by juliet Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:13 pm

    Fine of Fate wrote:I remember Aidou telling Kaname that he liked "suki" him when they were kids.

    haha naughty Aido...LOL

    @ Lucy i will refrain from erasing the posts since the discussion progresses and since we sorted it out (i hate deleting posts anyway, sorry for the trouble caused...)
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    Post by kanachanimmortal Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:18 pm

    juliet wrote:
    Fine of Fate wrote:I remember Aidou telling Kaname that he liked "suki" him when they were kids.

    haha naughty Aido...LOL

    @ Lucy i will refrain from erasing the posts since the discussion progresses and since we sorted it out (i hate deleting posts anyway, sorry for the trouble caused...)

    don't be sry at all,you are moderator.you know better which things to be allowed and which to be not.
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    Post by Duskola Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:18 pm

    Oh, well. I don't believe I'm doing this for real. But I went and looked for some explanation on Google so that I can state better what my friend wanted to mean.

    http://japanese.about.com/library/weekly/aa021101a.htm

    Here you can read exactly the reason why, if Yuuki has ever referred to kaname with "Aishiteru" or "Ai" - that is, "love" - is very hard for her to take back those words.

    AND here is stated, too, that Japanese usually don't put their feelings into words, but, if they want to use SUKI to express love, they use:

    好きです Suki desu
    好きだ Suki da
    好きだよ Suki dayo (male speech)
    好きよ Suki yo (female speech)


    "If you like somebody or something very much, "dai (literally means, big)" can be added as the prefix, and you can say "daisuki desu 大好きです."

    So, it seems to me that we have only one word in the sentence: "好き" , with no prefixes and suffixes (please correct me @mariangie if I'm wrong - I'm fond of Japanese culture and language but I'm absolutely not an expert, especially as regards the language).
    And as @Fine of Fate stated out, Aido refers to Kaname with "好き", too?

    Anyone who can tell me if Yuuki ever used:


    愛しています
    愛してる

    and so on? lol!
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    Post by RIchard Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:20 pm

    Duskola wrote:And on top of that, translating this with "like" doesn't mean at all that Yuuki's feelings are not beginning to change or that the scene is less "romantic", so I can't understand the forcing. If I was a Zeki, I would have preferred the "like" because it's more consistent both with the sintax and the current plot - and here is the reference to Japanese culture my friend gave me. He asked me what words did Yuuki use to express her feelings for Kaname before, because if she truly used words with "AI", above all "AISHITERU", it's very hard that Hino could take them back with a simple "SUKI" because in Japanese culture is very hard to express one's feelings without being polite - with absolute open words. AND taking them back after a single chapter in which Yuuki said "I belong to Kaname" is absolutely out of discussion. So, Hino would not build only a frivolous character, but also a girl completely out from the habits of Japanese culture.

    So, as you say, even in Japanese sintax everything is still open lol!

    I found a page on yahoo answers saying that ai even thought does mean love is rarly used in japan and instead it is common practice to use suki dasu, I would post the link but I cant cause it hasn't been 7 days yet.

    This just confuses me more and more, no one is going to accepting yuukis feelings for 1 side or the other till she ties one of them to a bed. Razz

    This is the problem with reading a story wrote in another language, not every thing can be transferred over.


    Last edited by RIchard on Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Duskola Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:21 pm

    @RIchard: we probably posted at the same time, maybe it's the same link I wrote now ;)


    EDIT: To be absolutely objective, I have to say that prefixes and suffixes can also be implied, so it may be true that the sentence in the context can mean "I love you". That's why we need to know if Yuuki ever used some word with "AI" to express her feelings, because if this is the real twist in the story in which she understands her true feelings, it seems to me very strange that she leaves something implied in the sentence - in the end, it's her POV and nobody can hear her thoughts, so she may simply use a more explicit sentence - especially if she used some sentence of this kind to describe her feelings for Kaname.



    This is the problem with reading a story wrote in another language, not every thing can be transferred over.

    You are right here ;) that's why it's so important to show the ambiguities.

    But it's not the fact to accept Yuuki's feelings - they must be accepted for the both of them. So here is my other question: why it's so important, when one states that she loves Zero, to absolutely deny her love for Kaname?
    And if she simply loves the both of them? lol!
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    Post by RIchard Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:58 pm

    I actually have never doubted that yuuki loves them both, only thing is the type of love.
    IMO yuukis love for kaname started out as
    admiration [for the man who saved her life],
    after that it became fondness [For a person that was always there]
    Then it became forbidden fruit [A man she could never be with]
    Then after she turned and got her memories from childhood it became affection [A man she thought she could never have was hers all along]
    This is the part where most people would disagree with me I believe.
    At the point she lived alone with kaname it became sibling/parental [a man by her side teaching her how to live.]
    The mansion is what killed the yumi romance in my eyes, being away from zero makes her feelings grow and being with kaname shows that he is not the unattainable person that drove the start of the yuumi romance. Not to mention kaname needing to teach her how to live as a vampire going as far as punishing her when she makes mistakes. This yells out sibling/parental love to me. To top it all off the only kiss yuuki ever initiated was to the check [talking about when they were in the mansion]. I am not asking you to agree with my take on this part, just trying to explain it. Also why is yuuki so mean? After she finds out that kaname is the ancestor she says she wont call him onni anymore, just kaname, but she still calls him it up till he leaves.

    Ps is there a topic about aido's dads death? I just had a thought and I dont want to take this topic off course.
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    Post by kanachanimmortal Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:24 pm

    its romantic feeling,get over it already.jeez why to use suffix to find it out.you don't say i love you and kiss a guy if you don't love him romantically.
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    Post by Duskola Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:05 pm

    @RIchard, I understand your view - even if I don't share it as regards Yuuki's feelings for Kaname - I think and keep thinking there's a big love between them and that this love can't be erased but by something very serious - and I really can't see - for now - how "the mansion" could have killed it.

    RIchard wrote:Not to mention kaname needing to teach her how to live as a vampire going as far as punishing her when she makes mistakes.

    Kaname is trying to protect her, that's why he has conversations with Rido about binding her or letting her free. Their parents were trying to protect her too, by locking her and keeping her existence secret to everyone. Yuuki is in danger - for what reason, we don't know yet - and what Kaname's done until now is not only his duty as a king - as you wrote elsewhere - but there's also some secret regarding Yuuki that has yet to be discovered. At first he thought that he could keep her besides him, then he decided to let her use Artemis and to let her go - and the final proof of the fact that he let her totally free to decide her path is the very fact that he abandoned her, letting her free to do whatever she wants ("Don't hesitate").

    So, I may think that Yuuki's feelings for Zero are more than friendly (I've always thought this, anyway). I may think this because I identify myself in Yuuki very much and I am also capable of BIG feelings, so I understand her POV. But I've no proof for now that her love for Kaname is gone - that's why we are discussing about "May a simple ball, or a mansion, let her change her mind?" or about "Suki" and so on. If the facts were plain, there would be no need to debate lol! I don't think we are a bunch of stubborn people who simply don't want to see "the truth". If you want to divide us between Yume and Zeki you can do it - I'm not fighting for anything else than what I consider to be the beauty and originality of the story, anyway.

    The simple fact that Yuuki wants to stop and save Kaname is a big proof that Kaname is important to her. May she change her mind at Zero's advantage? Maybe. But - as I keep saying - DUE TO HOW HINO DEVELOPED THE STORY UNTIL NOW - and I know you've seen a different development, so I keep saying this is MY opinion - we will need a lot of chapters to see this twist - OR a very big surprise that can make Yuuki detach forever from Kaname.

    So, either she has romantic feelings in this scene or not, until we don't see a real CUT - until Yuuki simply forget Kaname's importance - or, I explain better, until Hino WRITES this clearly - well, I would take the story as it is. It's not a matter of interpretation for me, it's a matter of taking every sentence and panel "as is".

    And the story as it is, for me, is that she loves Kaname, and that she also has strong feelings for Zero - feelings that, for now, whatever they are, don't erase her love for Kaname. (That BUT)

    We will see in the next chapters what will be the consequence of that "BUT".

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    Post by RIchard Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:40 pm

    Sorry if it seemed I was splitting up the fans into yumi and zeki, all I meant by using it was to refer to the couples and there supporting fandoms instead of typing out the names all the way.
    But about taking the sentence and panel "as is" U cant really do that cause your "as is" is different every ones is. It is not realy my intent to change anyone else s opinion on the story but only to explain my own interpretation of the VK world and to see if anyone else s interpretations of the world can further complete my own..

    In the end it is best just to wait and see what plays out. So far I am predicting that the but will most likly be some thing like but it will never work cause I belong to kaname, or it wont work cause I am a pb/vampire. At least if you go on the past history of yuuki. We might even see a but all I can ever do is hurt him. I curious to see just how far off I am off on this. WHy do I have ot wait a month Sad

    Thought of another but
    yuuki "But ... I have to stop kaname before anything else."
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    Post by lililovelilica Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:53 pm

    First:The feelings he have for her ARE REAL!
    She met him after his family were attacked by a vampire pureblood, Yuuki took care of him with all her warm heart and she also always checked if he was okay,and as the years passed by his feelings were growing bigger,this is common on shoujo manga,He also loved her after she transformed into vampire.
    Kaname realized that and used zero to protect her until he was planning his next moves to kill Rido Kuran.
    When he was freed from Rido,he took Yuuki away to the house she was born and after that they've spent years there^^
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    Post by Saphira_K Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:16 pm

    for me, zero's feelings for yuuki are as real as it gets. he loves her, and has for a very long time.

    yuuki loves him, but in a sibling way. if you pay close attention to the story and keep an open mind, you'll notice that in every way that yuuki has treated him, it has been as an "older" caring/loving sister. she worries for him, wants him to be happy, etc...

    in that scene she is acknowledging how she feels about him. what it all amounts too. but she doesn't love him like he loves her. she knew that, and that's one reason why she removed the memories of her from him. she's giving him a chance to move foreward instead of living the past. he always said that kaname was the one for her, and both zero and yuuki know that being together could not be.....another reason why zero is always telling what an idiot she is when she gets all nostalgic about what they had.

    yuuki was reminiscing, and that is imo what this scene was about.
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    Post by lililovelilica Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:50 am

    Now that chapter 91 is out
    I'm certain that the man Yuuki has chosen to be her husband and lover is Kaname
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    Post by Moonstone Song Wed May 22, 2013 1:43 pm

    LOVE!!! What kind of feeling? - Page 2 1694537797 What kind of feeling? - Page 2 3751784264 PLEAS! PLEAS!PLEAS! BE LOVE!!!... Shocked Embarassed sorry... I'm a big Zeki fan.... ha-ha-ha shy
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    Post by blood-girl Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:37 am

    I've always thought this for a long time. There is the type of love that you feel for a brotherly type figure, then there's the love that you feel for someone you are attracted too. I think the brotherly type love, like the "I married my best friend" love, is what Yuki feels for Zero. What kind of feeling? - Page 2 2289681036 What kind of feeling? - Page 2 230572241
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    Post by Kara Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:50 pm

    blood-girl wrote:"I married my best friend" love, is what Yuki feels for Zero. What kind of feeling? - Page 2 2289681036 What kind of feeling? - Page 2 230572241

    I think so, too Smile  It's a different kind of love from what she felt for Kaname. With Kaname, Yuuki always knew. She had a crush on him for years and years, and Kaname was her first love. First loves are passionate and all-consuming. With Zero it was only platonic... at first. I think Yuuki was surprised when her feelings for Zero grew (as were a lot of readers  Razz ). But Zero and Yuuki's friendship is / was a solid foundation for them to develop a more intimate relationship wub We all know that Kaname will never disappear from Yuuki's heart (Zero understands this more than anyone, because he knows Yuuki). Still, I don't think that invalidates Zero and Yuuki's relationship at all. They both cared for each other, and both Yuuki and Zero got to be happy and spend centuries by each other's sides. Did they actually get married? I don't think that's ever mentioned. But when Zero takes Yuuki's hand and says he regrets ever turning his back on what he wanted (bonus chapter 93.5), I think it's implied that they get together after that point. At least the ending of Vampire Knight wasn't  entirely devastating in the end What kind of feeling? - Page 2 3161994949
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    Post by Saphira_K Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:03 am

    it's funny how a person's mindset can change over time. i was totally bummed with how there was not to be a Yumi ending....that sucked. a lot.

    nothing can be changed though, it was over and done with....you're left with it, and then you get to thinking!

    personally i always shipped Yumi but i never had anything against Zero. i just didn't think the love was as strong as with Yumi, (at least on Yuki's side). but, if she had to be with anyone else then Kaname, i'm glad it's Zero, and i don't mind that at all. i don't know if they got married, but for sure they lived together to the end of Zero's life, and she also gave birth. (as she had 2 kids in the end. -one for each-)

    so i have to agree. it wasn't a complete devastating ending.

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