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    Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

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    juliet
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    Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:24 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

    I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

    During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

    There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

    We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

    So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

    Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

    I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

    First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

    I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

    I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

    What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?








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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:43 pm

    awes0m3 wrote:I'm not convinced that Kaname wants to kill all Purebloods. Or at least, not necessarily.

    Rather, I think the key to all this is maybe a desire to stop the bloodlines from continuing? The targets seem to be the head of the families. All of whom happen to be male so far. No male Purebloods? No eligible Purebloods for the females to have children with. (As for the female Purebloods, he may be leaving it to Yuuki to take care of them if they misbehave.)

    In his account of the past, Kaname mentions:

    The bereaved moved forward together. Bearing a desire for family.

    Spoiler:

    Kaname's mission from long ago was to kill vampires, specifically bad Purebloods. Artemis and the Bloody Rose drove him into such a frenzy that he could no longer feel emotions. Somehow he snapped out of it because maybe the 'bad' Purebloods were all eliminated and only the 'good' Purebloods remained.

    So now we have a scenario where the Purebloods are starting families of their own. Imagine the beginnings of the Vampire Society as we know it today. Purebloods at the top, and the Nobles serving them below. There would be marriages and mistresses as everyone strengthened their alliances and established their bloodlines. The vampire race would start multiplying. They would start believing the idea that they're superior to humans and have no need for any sort of open co-existence. They would create their own superior society … in the shadows.

    And Kaname would witness them building this sort of gilded cage around themselves. And yet he hesitates to do anything about it. Maybe because of all the Pureblood babies running around. Maybe he has a family of his own. (Or not. We're still not sure how the Kuran family began.) He's not about to wipe out vampire hierarchy if there's a tiny bit of hope that they might change for the better. Children, after all, are the hope of the future … maybe they could learn to tame their vampire instincts? And move towards some sort of reconciliation with humans?

    Heh. But they didn't. Or their natures couldn't, wouldn't allow them. That would be enough to drive someone like him to despair! So Kaname decides to go into slumber. He has no intention of waking from it, but maybe in the far future … maybe then, vampire society would have sorted themselves out. Remember: he has premonitions of future Yuuki. He's seen a young vampire miss whose eyes exudes warmth, love, and sincerity.

    But instead, it's the beginning of a nightmare: Rido wakes him up forcefully by having him ingest baby Kaname. (Kaname's statement that Rido's existence was a miscalculation on his part makes some sort of sense in this context. Maybe he didn't take into account that a real monster would be born? I dunno.) Then his 'parents' Haruka and Juri are murdered before his eyes. He witnesses the corruption of vampire society, the evil that lurks in the hearts of vampires, their indecent desire for the blood of Purebloods and human babies.

    He realizes his premonitions of Yuuki did not really come from a happy future full of warmth. There is no happy future yet. Not for vampires. Not for humans. Not for Yuuki.

    So he proceeds with the plans he made so long ago. The extermination of the Vampire Council is only the beginning. This brings us to the part that has always bothered me in the first arc. Takuma says:

    Grandfather … let us together put an end to the Ichijou line.

    Spoiler:

    Kaname walks away from what would have been a relatively easy battle with a noble. He accepts Takuma's sincerity. And he leaves his best friend to perform what is basically a suicide mission … and put an end to a Noble bloodline. sSc_jawdrop3 (Unless he somehow knew Sara was on her way to save Takuma. Not likely? )

    tl;dr: So Kaname's plan is to stop Purebloods from continuing their bloodlines. This most likely involves killing all Pureblood males, including himself. Sad (This would also weaken Noble bloodlines because there would be no Pureblood males to offer their daughters as mistresses to.) Even if Pureblood females decided to engage in relationships with vampires or humans, no Pureblood children would result.

    This theory goes out the window, of course, when Kaname decides to leave Isaya or any other male Purebloods alone. Very Happy

    (I actually have a different theory about why he had to kill Hanadagi and Hiou, but I will try to find an appropriate thread.)

    Nice wording cheers I think you've compiled what we were mostly discussing regarding this before in a nutshell and more. cheers

    Either way the idea does not address vampire society's problems in general, most of all Sara's, and only implies the extinction of purebloods.

    If pureblood females cannot create more pureblood babies, they cannot create a family > they cannot continue their species, and with only pureblood females left they would eventually stop growing old and either become miserable or find mate in the lower classes of vampires, or possibly with the humans.

    This creates a sort of "Queen Bee" symbol literally in the vampire society; nobles would flock to these pureblood females offering their sons to strengthen their genetic pool. And this in a way creates a new form of pureblood in the form of their offspring.

    In short, the remaining pureblood females would also, still, be revered as a higher class in the hierarchy. In essence nothing changed and purebloods are still revered.

    The "Queen Bee" outcome doesn't match what Kaname said to Nagamichi before he died,
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/32

    "Who said purebloods should be revered? You're like bees who can't function without a queen bee.."

    Kaname seems to disagree that the lower classes are revering the purebloods. If he is only aiming to stop the bloodline of purebloods AND the implications of purebloods as superior to all, why not just kill the males? why take the risk of repeating it again? As you said, perhaps only the good purebloods remained, but why did Sara as a female pureblood existed to create havoc?

    Leaving only pureblood females doesn't make the vampire society a better place. The only certainty is complete renewal of the system.

    When Kaname killed the council, it was the first step to his plans, the council's elimination was necessary as a corrupt form of vampire government. When he referred to gilded cage, it was the council abusing power while maintaining control,
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-5/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html
    Kaname mainly mentioned about "the conditions of vampires" which has generally degenerated throughout the centuries, based on what he saw and experienced before and after his slumber. In short he was talking in general about all the classes of vampire society and not just one. In a way he was talking about addressing the problems of vampire society by first eliminating the council, so, ergo if his only plan is to kill all pureblood males to stop the bloodline, it only achieves stopping the pureblood race from continuing, which somehow achieves little if the remaining pureblood females also started acting like Sara and starts wrestling over dominance and control over society in the future.

    I believe the general problem that Kaname wishes to address is about Purebloods being seen as having more authority over everyone and the vampires' perceptions regarding purebloods. Kaname was generally fed up over the vampires nature to lust and greed over power and destruction it was virtually not making any sense and creating more problems. In a way he was addressing the nature of a vampire, and how he takes to this by eliminating only the heads of pureblood families.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:21 am

    After chapter 75 I am really started thinking that eventually kaname's plan to kill all purebloods (as it is stated), opens more fronts that actually appear from nowhere;

    -An area is the hunters, it totally reveals their natural insticts and hate against Purebloods, we thought that it was just Zero (with so intense feelings) but right now the hunters reveal another side of them, which is interesting.

    Are they also "dangerous" and "bersek", I wonder and who will stop them? Kaien alone? Kaien with Yuuki? Eventually to how many purebloods are they referring to when they say that they want to kill them ALL?

    -Kaname sounds here more determined than ever before to change all of Yuuki's perception about him; he actually asks from kaien to lie about Ouri's death and to confirm Sara's words to Yuuki when she entered the academy.

    So why is he putting all that extra effort to keep her away, totally destroying her trust in him? isn't enough that she is bound to the academy and apparently Kaien as he asked has no intention to give it back to Kaname?

    - Finally kaname's plans is still not revealed. We learned that in the past (when they were kids) he had intended to sacrifice himself to make her human. Kaname seems to be inclined in sacrifices by the way...but ever since then a lot happened.

    Kaname fell in love with Yuuki and decided to spend eternity with her, he aborted his plan. Then he introduced her to vampire society (in order to make clear who is that he is protects), he gave Artemis to her.
    And then Kaname takes another path again and he leaves Yuuki in order to set out and to fulfill his original plan. But why? It does not make sense.

    Apparently Yuuki's wish to offer herself as the reaper affected his decision. But still why is he reaching these extremes to protect her? how much protection does she need?
    Still it does not make sense why Kaname decides to set out when he had decided to spend eternity with her and why he is totally destroying himself there, purposely burning the bridges.

    What do you make out of all of these?











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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by keira on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:09 am

    juliet wrote:After chapter 75 I am really started thinking that eventually kaname's plan to kill all purebloods (as it is stated), opens more fronts that actually appear from nowhere;

    -An area is the hunters, it totally reveals their natural insticts and hate against Purebloods, we thought that it was just Zero (with so intense feelings) but right now the hunters reveal another side of them, which is interesting.

    Are they also "dangerous" and "bersek", I wonder and who will stop them? Kaien alone? Kaien with Yuuki? Eventually to how many purebloods are they referring to when they say that they want to kill them ALL?

    -Kaname sounds here more determined than ever before to change all of Yuuki's perception about him; he actually asks from kaien to lie about Ouri's death and to confirm Sara's words to Yuuki when she entered the academy.

    So why is he putting all that extra effort to keep her away, totally destroying her trust in him? isn't enough that she is bound to the academy and apparently Kaien as he asked has no intention to give it back to Kaname?

    - Finally kaname's plans is still not revealed. We learned that in the past (when they were kids) he had intended to sacrifice himself to make her human. Kaname seems to be inclined in sacrifices by the way...but ever since then a lot happened.

    Kaname fell in love with Yuuki and decided to spend eternity with her, he aborted his plan. Then he introduced her to vampire society (in order to make clear who is that he is protects), he gave Artemis to her.
    And then Kaname takes another path again and he leaves Yuuki in order to set out and to fulfill his original plan. But why? It does not make sense.

    Apparently Yuuki's wish to offer herself as the reaper affected his decision. But still why is he reaching these extremes to protect her? how much protection does she need?
    Still it does not make sense why Kaname decides to set out when he had decided to spend eternity with her and why he is totally destroying himself there, purposely burning the bridges.

    What do you make out of all of these?







    i think that the intentions of the some hunters are pretty scary. They dont bother to understand the vampires at all if you see chapter 64 where then hunter commented ' werent you monsters supposed to be incapable of dying' to kaname after the hooded woman sacrificed herself. Even some noble vampires like Rima are afraid because they can only fend for themselves because humans can go killing vampires without being punished by law.

    Kaname did mention that he hesitated about his plans for a while becaue he wanted to spend an eternity with yuuki etc. But later decided to go with his original plans (to kill all purebloods except for yuuki) [ chapter 67 ]

    He probably decided on that because of Sara's plans. If you recall Sara is building an army humans with the school girls willing to sacrifice themselves for her so that she can become 'queen'. (a replay of the past) Kaname probably decided that unless he puts an end to the pureblood race this kinds of thing would repeat itself again and again. So before yuuki finds out and sacrifice herself or gets herself killed in the process of stopping Sara, he wants to stop Sara and to stop a repeat of this ever again.

    In the past, he was also trying to stop a similar incident, which ended in the death of the hooded woman. He is blaming himself for being unable to carry out his plan of sacrificing his life to produce those hunter weapons which resulted in the hooded woman doing it first. Kaname said that 'he regrets losing her (the hooded woman)' and was even more firm about his decision to continue his plans to kill all purebloods when he saw yuuki getting herself hurt by touma in a bid to 'prevent innocent people from getting hurt' which confirms his fears that yuuki is also unable to 'sit back and watch and let people get hurt' just as the hooded woman had been. And so 'he dosent want to live through that a second time' and regret losing another loved one due to his hesitaion to carry out his plans. (those were such heart-wrenching chapters Crying or Very sad )

    To sum it all, he dosent want more humans OR his loved ones hurt/sacrificed. i doubt he could live all alone AGAIN, if yuuki were to die. He rather sacrifice himself to make sure no more human lives are lost ( what he has been doing since the past) and make sure that yuuki dosent go suicidal if she finds out (thus wanting to turn her human and erase her memories) than to live through all the pain and regret once more.

    He probably also gave yuuki artemis to protect herself while he's not with her since she cant excatly control her powers.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:33 am

    juliet wrote:After chapter 75 I am really started thinking that eventually kaname's plan to kill all purebloods (as it is stated), opens more fronts that actually appear from nowhere;

    -An area is the hunters, it totally reveals their natural insticts and hate against Purebloods, we thought that it was just Zero (with so intense feelings) but right now the hunters reveal another side of them, which is interesting.

    Are they also "dangerous" and "bersek", I wonder and who will stop them? Kaien alone? Kaien with Yuuki? Eventually to how many purebloods are they referring to when they say that they want to kill them ALL?

    I've made a topic about this, Razz

    as for the question WHO will stop them, who indeed, they are the ones posing to be the "law" here, and yet THEY'RE THE SAME ONES who go with Kaname's UNLAWFUL actions! haha now this makes me remember the old days...

    who's going to accuse anyone now of killing purebloods, do include the lawful hunters and what should be done to stop their mentality.

    -Kaname sounds here more determined than ever before to change all of Yuuki's perception about him; he actually asks from kaien to lie about Ouri's death and to confirm Sara's words to Yuuki when she entered the academy.

    So why is he putting all that extra effort to keep her away, totally destroying her trust in him? isn't enough that she is bound to the academy and apparently Kaien as he asked has no intention to give it back to Kaname?
    I think he's trying to make her do something. Before Kaname left her he said "not to hesitate". Maybe what he's doing now is to help her vanquish this hesitation in order for her to do what he wants?
    The demoralizing he is doing clearly upsets Yuki, and despite the fact she's already cared for by Kaien still Kaname tries her faith in him by adding the lie that he killed Ouri.

    I think this demoralizing has two consequences that I can think of:
    -Yuki will change her mind on going after Kaname and stay where she is for the remainder of his plan execution, therefore ensuring she is safe. Whether or not Kaname plans to take her back after its over probably will remain to be seen
    -Yuki will be demoralized enough to convince herself that Kaname is the enemy, and as one who goes against her beliefs she will try to stop him (as she also said to Zero). This may result in Kaname's voluntary death, or not. However IMO it is too simple and even straightforward, which is not like Kaname at all. It seems he intentionally brings down a bad image onto himself, but there's a missing hint that tells he does it for a reason other than Yuki. There are other questionable purebloods remaining such as Sara, and now Isaya, somehow I think this "kill all purebloods" is a diversion to a greater plan lurking underneath


    Apparently Yuuki's wish to offer herself as the reaper affected his decision. But still why is he reaching these extremes to protect her? how much protection does she need?
    Still it does not make sense why Kaname decides to set out when he had decided to spend eternity with her and why he is totally destroying himself there, purposely burning the bridges.
    its strange back then he knew Yuki would return to human again and he found it necessary to sacrifice his life again if that happens just like Juri did. How did he know?

    He decided to break the spell at its "peak" point where Yuki was starting to become insane and turn her before she does, which means the spells usability was at its limit. What if it wasnt spent yet, was there another circumstance that would necessitate turning her AGAIN to human, and can Yuki really break spells? Kaname saw that need to turn her again when they were young, not only Juri. Why she needs so much protection?
    And I'm wondering, if the threat is something Yuki can handle physically as she does have artemis after all and pureblood powers, then why not teach her when she was young? but they didn't. Kaname also didn't teach her when she became a pureblood. So it leads me to think the threat over her as a pureblood is far more serious to necessitate changing her and even sacrificing their own lives for that, and I have a feeling its not only Rido. But something else. I could be wrong though
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:02 am

    sweetsolace wrote:

    I've made a topic about this, Razz

    Saw it, and thanks for opening that issue concerning the hunters morals...still I entered this subject here with a suspicious theory on my mind that actually involves Kaname's plan in it...Due to lacking time, I shall not go that much into developpping but

    Kaname: As the President of the Vampire Hunter Association, you should have no problems with my actions, Kaien Cross.

    This line here is curious; Kaname knows Kaien and all the ideal that he preserves and fights for, yet he is actually doubting by saying this line; reminding the raw hate that vampire hunters have as an instict about purebloods.

    Could actually Kaname be betting on this? Could it be that he moves like this actually knowing that his actions will meet the accordance and perhaps the support of the HA hunters?

    And can it even be that he wants two fronts - hunters VS purebloods?

    If the remaining purebloods are 22 apparently he can not kill him all byhimself or we shall reading VK for too many chapters and how the plot is going to be filled?

    But if the vampires move against the remaining purebloods and Kaname slowly has led them into it, perhaps we see two fronts appearing Vampire hunters acting againts purebloods (Purebloods can have as an alliance Cross)? How do you judge this theory? Can it fit to Kaname's plan?







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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:01 pm

    juliet wrote:
    But if the vampires move against the remaining purebloods and Kaname slowly has led them into it, perhaps we see two fronts appearing Vampire hunters acting againts purebloods (Purebloods can have as an alliance Cross)? How do you judge this theory? Can it fit to Kaname's plan?

    the hunters doesnt seem to be taking the offense against purebloods ever since scratch they only took the initiative when kaname started it, and they gave him their support. For me this is not enough indication to start a war between them.
    as kaito said, they seem to consider purebloods as problematic hence their extermination would help make their job easier--their job.
    their nature has nothing to do with exclusively hating them, as they should hate ALL vampires, not just one kind.
    Kaname's plan to is to kill all purebloods, he knows he will have the hunters agreement when he does it. But from this does he plan to start a war between hunters and purebloods?? if so, how, because i dont see it.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Sep 24, 2011 5:24 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    juliet wrote:
    But if the vampires move against the remaining purebloods and Kaname slowly has led them into it, perhaps we see two fronts appearing Vampire hunters acting againts purebloods (Purebloods can have as an alliance Cross)? How do you judge this theory? Can it fit to Kaname's plan?

    the hunters doesnt seem to be taking the offense against purebloods ever since scratch they only took the initiative when kaname started it, and they gave him their support. For me this is not enough indication to start a war between them.
    as kaito said, they seem to consider purebloods as problematic hence their extermination would help make their job easier--their job.
    their nature has nothing to do with exclusively hating them, as they should hate ALL vampires, not just one kind.
    Kaname's plan to is to kill all purebloods, he knows he will have the hunters agreement when he does it. But from this does he plan to start a war between hunters and purebloods?? if so, how, because i dont see it.

    You are right they are hating all vampires; not just one kind...

    Spoiler:

    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    Kaito: Whatever. If Kaname Kuran was to destroy the purebloods, then our wishes would be fulfilled.


    Rima: Us vampires are totally submerged into the human society and their politics.
    But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence. And to casually push out a relatively unknown new blood tablet.
    We might have a lifespan that’s so much longer than a human’s and much stronger powers. But apart from the reputation of nobles, we really have nothing to protect ourselves. If only the Senate had better used their powers...
    The reason for my bitter thoughts...
    (Image of Kaname's back) is because the king of the purebloods have already betrayed us vampires...

    So it seems that
    1. The hunters have released their original insticts against purebloods asking for bloodshed (feeling no emotions of guilt) to rise.
    For me, kaname gave them the allibi, a permission, to finally release their hate (which yes is part of their nature).

    It's actually their golden opportunity to get rid of the purebloods...the ones that all the world fears and all vampires and hunters are considering to be sacred and in general untouchable.

    As for the other vampires, they do not even need a legal excuse in order to be killed by humans (not even vampire hunters) so it seems that the purebloods are the real problem that now hunters have the chance to eliminate.

    Of course Kaname knows it (Vampire hunters about purebloods/vampires in general) he was there and confirms this notion when he says to Kaien that he as a vampire hunter should actually have no problem over his decision.

    Some chapters ago, the idea that the vampire hunters would support Kaname's action was very far away, unpredictable and distanced and yet it happened as we all ignored the original intentions of the hunters that are to kill and hunt the vampires.

    So I was just thinking (and that's more an idea) if Kaname's plan could have involved the hunters, as he who so well knows them, would knew that by killing the purebloods, he would actually give them a gift or fulfill their wish as Kaito says.

    Judging from his approach to Kaname, his trick with Touma, he so much tries to convince the hunters (especially Kaname) that HE WANTS TO KILL THEM ALL> which could or could not be his intention in the first place, but for a certainty he wants the impression and the conclusions created, he wants to leave them no space of doubt.

    What is fishy is that he tries too much LOL (as he tries to break Yuuki's trust with Ouri's death ect)


    Kaname wants to make the hunters believe that he plans to Kill all purebloods, and wants to bring out that natural instict (as in Kaien's case provoking him to remember his old self). Why? Now, he apparently could make a use of that instict couldn't he?

    So perhaps he needs them in order to realize his plan / to use them as a military force againts a great threat rising and this is the beggining in order to bait them into action> why?



    anyway, this is a theory, don't take it seriously if you do not wish, (I have not finished it yet, LOL, but I am thinking about it).














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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:34 pm

    It's actually their golden opportunity to get rid of the
    purebloods...the ones that all the world fears and all vampires and
    hunters are considering to be sacred and in general untouchable.

    As
    for the other vampires, they do not even need a legal excuse in order
    to be killed by humans (not even vampire hunters) so it seems that the
    purebloods are the real problem that now hunters have the chance to
    eliminate.
    agree Kaname is giving them a chance they would not have dreamed of, also it seems hunters would do anything to lessen their workload especially regarding protecting humans

    Kaito: To spare a pureblood who’s sympathetic to humankind is not a bad thing. As long as it’s just one person.
    so there's also a hint of their wish to see purebloods death, not just their nature -- less crime rate = less work. Purebloods feed on humans and the humans become level E, level E which they have to take care of.

    So I was just thinking (and that's more an idea) if Kaname's plan
    could have involved the hunters, as he who so well knows them, would
    knew that by killing the purebloods, he would actually give them a gift
    or fulfill their wish as Kaito says.

    Judging from his approach to Kaname, his trick with Touma, he so
    much tries to convince the hunters (especially [Kaien]) that HE WANTS TO
    KILL THEM ALL
    > which could or could not be his intention in the first
    place, but for a certainty he wants the impression and the conclusions
    created, he wants to leave them no space of doubt.

    What is fishy is that he tries too much LOL (as he tries to break Yuuki's trust with Ouri's death ect)
    I know right. He is risking too much, but I think he also knows Yuki

    Page 10:
    Kaname: That’s so like Yuuki...
    Maybe he also has FAITH that she won't change her mind? haha.. Razz it is a gamble but I get that feeling sometimes he deliberately wanted her to become upset. Razz
    Here we get a hint of Kaname's "dark" side literally.. Razz he exploits, he baits all while keeping a cool front Razz Embarassed

    So perhaps he needs them in order to realize his plan / to use them
    as a military force againts a great threat rising and this is the
    beggining in order to bait them into action> why?
    perhaps he's achieving many things at once by killing all purebloods?
    -one was to gain the hunter's confidence in him, and as nina said in anotehr thread, so they will leave him alone, which gives him a lot of space to move around
    -another could be to lure out the other pureblood "enemy" and make him reveal his intentions. This cannot be Sara though.
    -another could be killing only the heads of pureblood families will achieve something or prepare the initial phase of his grand plan---we still don't know what he will do with the volcano.
    -convincing Kaien that he is a very bad person and telling him to relay this message to Yuki, meanwhile making Kaien kill Touma to "heighten" that believable "effect", perhaps Kaname wants Kaien to play a role? His role, presently is to serve as Yuki's guardian. Maybe its to convince Yuki more about Kaname OR maybe its to keep him away too as an intended effect similar to demoralizing Yuki?

    LOL maybe he's expecting a "flight" reaction from both Kaien and Yuki? "Kaname is a bad guy now there's no reason to remain here " pack their bags and leave for another place? Razz it is farfetched but another assumption I have is that they will not be interfering with his plans because they know he's "bad" hence he can do whatever this is without their interruption. As we know only Kaien and Yuki are with the idea of coexistence, they're also the only ones outside who knows he is a good person (Aido's faith was already tried and tested when his father was killed by Kaname--though we see that didn't work on him to keep him away LOL), so if he targeted them --demoralize them-- then Kaname had technically succeeded in making everyone believe that he is a bad guy.
    Though what does this achieve? This seems to me he is acting like Lelouch (though of course I dont think it will happen ) maybe being known as the world's evil will grant him something that is part of his ultimate plan? maybe it will give him courage to go on, perhaps, knowing no one else believed in his kindness? Though its too sad to imagine it, I can see it may help his focus, especially in how Yuki would see him, which might hinder his actions.
    But I don't see Aido nor Yuki changing their minds despite this. :/ lol something's wrong... haha. Razz maybe he needs to convince them more lol


    Last edited by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by Vanille-chan on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:49 pm

    Well, Kaname's life is marked by two women, two women who made him change his view on some points:

    HW: His plan was to build anti vampires weapons and for that, he had to sacrifice himself.
    But HW did the sacrifice and he put himself into an eternal sleep. Apparently, his plan was to be swallowed up by time. Rido Kuran interrupted that almost eternal rest. With the Y´s life, he decided to protect the warmth - the same warmth he felt for HW.
    When he killed the council, in later chapters it is implied that the desire he had of to kill some vampires, that wish never ended. Before Y entering in his life, I understand that he planned to kill PB and fall asleep again - a fact that was modified with the interference of Rido Kuran.

    But Yuki changed his perspective - he delayed his original plan. In fact, I can tell he really, at times, he stoped the original plan and decided to live eternity next to Yuki.

    However, old enemies threats Yuki. The current attitudes show that Kaname knows that Yuki does not agree with his plans. So I think he is doing what is necessary to cut the link between them: he asks for Kaien tell Yuki that was him who killed Ouri. In K´s reasoning, this will lead Y to disappointment irreversible. Kaien said she still relies on Kaname. If Yuki trust him, she will interfere. And that will leave Y vulnerable.

    I think Kaname wants Y to feel anger about him. Maybe then she could continue her life freely.

    Today, history shows that Kaname will kill all PB and kill himself. It is possible that he intends to transform Y into a human again, through his sacrifice or Kaien´s sacrifice.

    That's what history leads now, but I can not imagine Yuki happy if this happens, especially about Kaname.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:57 pm

    Vanille-chan wrote:Well, Kaname's life is marked by two women, two women who made him change his view on some points:

    HW: His plan was to build anti vampires weapons and for that, he had to sacrifice himself.
    But HW did the sacrifice and he put himself into an eternal sleep. Apparently, his plan was to be swallowed up by time. Rido Kuran interrupted that almost eternal rest. With the Y´s life, he decided to protect the warmth - the same warmth he felt for HW.
    there are some parts of Kaname's past that was missing-- for example its not certain WHO is the mother of the Kuran clan, and it was obviously not the hooded woman. Hence the "warmth" he felt for baby Yuki could not have been hers, but belonged to another woman--his wife.
    The HW is such an old theory thats not even solidly supported by an equal love, rather it was more of an attachment, a passing phase in Kaname's life.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sat Sep 24, 2011 8:51 pm

    And to drop a quick observation here about the hunters;

    Remember Isaya's note that Isaya had received and Nina had mentioned and we all had discussed some chapters ago; that the reputation of the purebloods will go bad, but so the reputation of the hunters?

    I am adding here Nina's observation from another thread;


    Moreover since afterwards Kaname could have proceeded with Isaya’s elimination…
    Could it be that Isaya knows something more??? I’m thinking again the “anonymous” note he received lol.

    Finally a development that confirms the note ;

    So Isaya knew and who ever send him the note also knew what the hunters can support, thus the bad reputation.

    Now what about his apathy when standing and watching Kaname vs Kaien, he neither run away when Kaname appeared outside his door (and we all know how a pureblood instantly vanishes), neither did he help Kaien...was it apathy that reaches the sky or he knew more than we expect him to know?

    And if he knew, from whom? Who could know and predict the hunter's behaviour? And why to inform Isaya, unless he wanted something from him or Isaya's implication in the story was not predetermined as well?


    Last edited by juliet on Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total






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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by aiko on Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:53 pm

    If Kaname sacrifices his life, his original plan, it would be too obvious of an ending. There would be no surprises and would be a huge let down. Yuuki was born a pureblood who was turned human, but if she is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is. I would loathe an ending where Kaname, who is the heart of the story in my opinion, has to perish. No, I do not want this. It would be an ending that would champion deception somehow.

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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by caela on Sat Sep 24, 2011 11:42 pm

    From Aiko:
    if [Yuuki] is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is.

    I totally agree, if Yuuki survives the ending, I see her surviving as a vampire. It would be amoral for this manga to end with Yuuki not being who she was born as. It sends the wrong message to the younger fans.

    Kaito: To spare a pureblood who’s sympathetic to humankind is not a bad thing. As long as it’s just one person.

    To sweetsolace: I pretty much agree with everything you wrote (except with Kaname teaching Yuuki on how to be a pureblood: he taught her the manners side, not the practical fighting/spells stuff) Also, I don't see the Hunter Association as a neutral or harmless part of VK.

    I think that the above quote means that the Hunter Association is not doing anything for the moment, but when Kaname has killed enough purebloods, the Hunter Association will be hunting Kaname down. I'm not even sure that they would spare Yuuki.

    The Hunter Association may be made up of hunters and not vampires, but I don't see their presence as harmless to the existence of Yuuki, either as a vampire or a human. Someone else pointed out that Yuuki's blood tasted good to vampires as a human and I see hints here and there that Yuuki's value is higher than a pureblood's and she might have powers even as a human. Corrupt people have existed before in the Hunter's Association and some of those bad people used their power to get vampire blood. Kaname's plans must include a plan for the hunters as well.

    Right now, my impression of Kaname's words to Kaien: (paraphrase) Tell Yuuki that I killed Ouri

    Yuuki was with Kaname at the start of the party and at the end of the party. She has drunk his blood on occasions after the party. She has been inside his mind and saw all the people who Kaname has drank from. Yuuki should have no reason to believe the first lie I have ever heard from Kaname. (I am a Zeki, I've been waiting for Kaname to tell a lie) Sara is the obvious killer because she had Ouri-blood-breath when Yuuki was speaking to her. Yuuki also sensed the fresh blood on Sara.

    Kaname's purpose is twofold: (1) to get the Hunter Association to start to target him and draw their attention away from somewhere else (telling this to a current head of Hunter Association is a like an official confession) (2) This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her. He wants her to lose faith in their relationship, not he himself

    I don't think Kaname's message would change Yuuki's mind much about Kaname much.

    His real next steps? other than squishing Sara? I have no idea.

    Juliet's Isaya mention:

    My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association and then combine it with some vampire leadership, a combo Hunter association and Vampire counsel. Since Isaya is a pureblooded friend of Kaien, I think that Kaname is not going to kill Isaya but instead will approach Isaya to be a part of that new leadership.

    Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.









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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by aiko on Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:48 am

    The fact that Kaname could see Yuki when she travelled back in time and named Artemis, I feel that this has to be very crucial to the story. What does it mean? Kaname told Yuuki since they were very young that he would always be with her. Kaname giving up on this relationship is disheartening and all the fight and struggle of the past chapters would have been in vain, pointless. It can't end like this. Maybe this will incite Yuuki to finally fight for Kaname and save him - she did declare to Kaname after she was turned into a vampire that she wanted to protect him and he told her that she would have to be very strong if she wanted to do that.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by Conrad Weller on Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:55 am

    aiko wrote:The fact that Kaname could see Yuki when she travelled back in time and named Artemis, I feel that this has to be very crucial to the story. What does it mean? Kaname told Yuuki since they were very young that he would always be with her. Kaname giving up on this relationship is disheartening and all the fight and struggle of the past chapters would have been in vain, pointless. It can't end like this. Maybe this will incite Yuuki to finally fight for Kaname and save him - she did declare to Kaname after she was turned into a vampire that she wanted to protect him and he told her that she would have to be very strong if she wanted to do that.

    well i agree with you, in ch 64 last pages he did realise that this little kid [yuuki] in juri's arms was familiar to him[when yuki and he talked in past]. but i dont think kaname wants to give up on his relationship with yuuki as you said the whole manga would be pointless otherwise, as for yuuki fighting for to protect kaname for that she needs to get out of the academy and stop this new night class since i really dont think its doing any great favours to anyone.

    she also needs to trust kaname like aidou hanabusa does she should not listen to sara. she should keep her promise i remember aidou and yuuki promised they would remain by kaname's side no matter what.

    kaname's path well i think yuuki will not let him turn her into human.neither will she allow him to die for her like her mother. she loves him too much.it would be extremely bad. maybe thats why many say yuki is the vampire knight though i strongly believe its kaname. this might be the reason yuuki. is kaname's knight not[theoretically but according to their actions, only protector]. some images also show yuki being protective of kaname. this is what i think. so no i dont think kaname will die to turn yuuki, yuuki will stop him and live with him happily.

    also kaname knows almost what everyone is doing he mocked kaien that even he believed sara's words that kaname killed ouri thats why he said go tell yuki i killed ouri since he knows kaien beleived sara, so i really dont think he wants to kill himself to turn yuki. yes he said that but this time yuuki is not a child she will stop him.she couldn't stop her mother but she will stop her fiance kaname.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by nina on Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:22 pm

    Juliet wrote: So why is he putting all that extra effort to keep her away, totally destroying her trust in him? isn't enough that she is bound to the academy and apparently Kaien as he asked has no intention to give it back to Kaname?

    Haha … may I add more questions? Why he is doing whatever he can in order to crash Yuuki’s trust and apparently her feelings for him since - as some fans believe - Kaname left her cuz he knows that Yuuki is in love with Zero and not with him???? Why when Kaien said that Yuuki still believes in him he answered “That’s so like Yuuki” huh?
    Seems to me that Kaname and Kaien know how deep, strong and unshakable Yuuki’s feelings for Kaname are … bounce

    - Finally kaname's plans is still not revealed. We learned that in the past (when they were kids) he had intended to sacrifice himself to make her human. Kaname seems to be inclined in sacrifices by the way...but ever since then a lot happened.

    Right … this info made me thrilled lol. Hino has threw this possibility out of the window now cuz even IF Kaname had the same idea (which as it seems he hasn’t) apparently this isn’t going to happen … I suppose an author wouldn’t revealed the end of the story before hand … would he/she???? The question is rhetorical ofc … Razz

    Anyway … the point is why he thought that he might have to turn her into a human cuz Juuri’s spell perhaps would have an expired date?>>>

    sweetsolace wrote: its strange back then he knew Yuki would return to human again and he found it necessary to sacrifice his life again if that happens just like Juri did. How did he know? He decided to break the spell at its "peak" point where Yuki was starting to become insane and turn her before she does, which means the spells usability was at its limit. What if it wasnt spent yet, was there another circumstance that would necessitate turning her AGAIN to human, and can Yuki really break spells?

    I think the answer is because Yuuki indeed can break spells. We have three incidents thus far as indications:
    1. Yuuki broke Kaname’s spell when he tried to “erase” her memory about the fight Zero vs Shizuka (as Maria) … eventually she remembered what witnessed that night.
    2. She broke her mother’s spell (well Zero’s bites also helped in that direction).
    3. As we saw lately she also broke the spell of the kidnapped child at the HA and synchronously she absorbed its memories …

    So for me the questions are:
    - How did Kaname knew about her ability back then since supposedly a baby PB hasn’t developed its abilities in such premature age … Could be cuz Yuuki had broke Kaname’s own spell (the one he put upon himself when he sealed his memory and turned into a baby) when she grabbed his finger for the first time? Kaname appears to start retrieving his memory around that age. ???
    - But IF so then another question rises … how he could guarantee that Yuuki wouldn’t break HIS spell as well in the future????

    I don’t make any sense lol.

    Kaname saw that need to turn her again when they were young, not only Juri. Why she needs so much protection?

    Right … and I think that Juuri had this idea from when she was still pregnant to Yuuki … she requested from Kaien to “give” his life to her and his school so she could send her child there >>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-19/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    Note her wording “I want them to see the many faces of this world and to enjoy their youth in a lively world where they’ll have all the freedom of laughing and crying at will …” I think this line is an innuendo about Juuri’s intention to turn her child into human …

    Also when Rido attacked their home with the intention to take Yuuki, Haruka said to Juuri that it was time to do what they had discussed long ago i.e. to sacrifice herself and turn Yuuki into human.

    So did they take that decision due to their previous terrible experience with their first child; or could it be cuz they knew how special would be Yuuki hence the extreme measures for her safety???

    So it leads me to think the threat over her as a pureblood is far more serious to necessitate changing her and even sacrificing their own lives for that, and I have a feeling its not only Rido. But something else. I could be wrong though

    I share the same feeling sweet … or could be a combination >>> an enormous threat plus Yuuki’s importance and I don’t mean only for Kaname … Yuuki as the heroine of VK should justify her title eventually >>> why she is so important and why she is one of the keys for co-existence! Thus far she hasn’t show much but I think her time to shine is coming …

    As we have seen the Kurans are like magnets for evilness … even Kaien at some point thought that if he could annihilate the Kurans (the core of vampires’ society) his “curse” it might come to its end lol.
    So even and if Yuuki isn’t more special than her mother for example, still since she is a Kuran with the unique ability to wield anti-vampire weapon that alone is enough reason to be a target.

    aiko wrote: If Kaname sacrifices his life, his original plan, it would be too obvious of an ending. There would be no surprises and would be a huge let down. Yuuki was born a pureblood who was turned human, but if she is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is.

    caela wrote: I totally agree, if Yuuki survives the ending, I see her surviving as a vampire. It would be amoral for this manga to end with Yuuki not being who she was born as. It sends the wrong message to the younger fans.
    .
    .
    Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.

    Totally agree with both of you!!!! cheers

    So to sum up … Kaname doesn’t intent or can’t turn Yuuki into human again cuz it would be pointless and inefficient (she can break her spell, plus since her existence is known to the hunters and to the nobles she won’t be safe either as a human!)

    Therefore let’s see the alternative scenario … leaving Yuuki as a PB which I think is the most plausible outcome.

    My question is … even IF Kaname is planning to wipe off all the PBs and end his life in the end (the method is irrelevant) HOW can be sure that Yuuki will be safe??? As we saw in this chapter the hunters wish to annihilate ALL the PBs. Even if Kaito said that Yuuki could survive since she is likeable to the human kind her convo with Zero says otherwise >>>

    Page 30:
    Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
    Zero: Yes, eventually
    Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
    Zero: All
    [Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

    So in other words eventually they won’t spare Yuuki either! Even if Zero oppose in such drift his lifespan is very shorter than Yuuki’s so he can’t protect her for ever. In other words Kaname is the only one who can do that.

    Another potential threat is the nobles … even if Yuuki as a PB is more powerful from them still this doesn’t mean that they won’t view her as a prey for her blood for eternity! Also note what Rima said in this chapter >> “The reason for my bitter thoughts... is because the king of the purebloods have already betrayed us vampires...” she believes that Kaname has betray their race and she is bitter. Who says that the rest of the nobles won’t feel the same way after Kaname’s plan and try to avenge the Kurans through Yuuki since she’ll be the ONLY PB Kuran???. Or capture her and use her blood (Shizuka’s case) …
    In fact I think that’s the most plausible scenario judging from what we know about their nature. We saw how they treated Yuuki when she requested their cooperation for the re-opening of the NC.

    And I want to add another factor in this difficult equation >>> the humans. I have mentioned in the past as well that the humans it might be involved in this arc.
    Hints:

    1. Juri’s words to Kaien in the past >>>
    “What change of heart has made you try to kill me just now? You know well I don’t do the type of things that would get me in the hunters’ execution lists. OR is it that you were planning to capture me and sell me to the ill-intentioned people who desire PBs for the miracle drug our blood represents?”
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-17/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    2. If we add on Juuri’s words the fact that Kaname has used his blood as medicine in the past for the villagers and how they claimed for his blood when figured its miraculous effects then I think is safe to assume that humans who are in high positions now and know the existence of vampires would like to do the same. Ergo Yuuki as the only one remained PB will be their “prey” as well.

    3. Yagari already implied about the humans’ views for the vampires >>>
    “… and for the ones among them who know the truth … the vampires’ superior intelligence and special skills are inevitably something those men are burning to exploit and they are also all thinking that that if they do things right they should also be able to get their hands on the vampires’ longevity as well … Just like the previous HA president … and just like those vampires who attacked the school to target your adoptive daughter … ”
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-6/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

    I think Yagari’s words it might be proven prophetic!

    4. The intro of a human congressman … Yori’s father. Again from his words we can see that powerful humans want to get along with the vampires.

    5. And lastly Rima’s words! She shed light about their position in society and how vulnerable are actually>>>

    Page 20:
    Rima: Us vampires are totally submerged into the human society and their politics.
    But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence. And to casually push out a relatively unknown new blood tablet.
    We might have a lifespan that’s so much longer than a human’s and much stronger powers. But apart from the reputation of nobles, we really have nothing to protect ourselves.

    Also can it be that there are humans who collaborate with Sara for the tampered tablets???
    I have said before … in the 1st arc we had as villains the senate (i.e. the nobles who manipulated PBs for their blood) + corrupted hunter + PBs … all of them had joined forces. What if now the role of the senate will be played from powerful humans? Could have Sara joined forces with humans??? IF humans with ill-intentions are involved in the production of Sara’s tablets (as Rima implied) then the whole race of the vampires is running a great danger here! Think how they could be manipulated using these tablets! Takuma’s “happy face” isn’t so promising lol.

    What I’m trying to say here is that even IF Kaname’s plan is indeed to annihilate ALL the PBs that will be not enough for Yuuki’s safety neither for the mankind nor for the vampire race.
    Sure he’ll accomplish to stop the “production” of the level-es and ONE root of evilness but the nobles can pose a threat for Yuuki and for the humans with their superior abilities. The hunters won’t spare Yuuki as well and who says that they aren’t gonna exterminate the entire vampire race in the future (>>>Rima: “But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence.”).

    Therefore from what I understand both races are potentially victims and victimizers.
    So the problem here is far more complex to be solved only by wiping off ALL the PBs and moreover with Kaname’s sacrifice/death in the end. From what I can see this isn’t the solution and I think Kaname is far cleverer not to realise that!

    Maybe juliet’s theory about a war is possible after all … Sara has prepare an army already … what for?
    The problem is that the fronts aren’t obvious at the moment! Shocked






    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by mariangie on Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:55 pm

    About this scene from chapter 66 :

    The scene said as this ( pages 24 to 26 from a translation I own ) :


    Kaname : "... hey Yuuki . In return is it okay to ask you a question . How have I seen by Yuuki ? I want to hear no longer the words that I tell myself . "

    Yuuki : " ... About you , I just recently knew of the things like you being my honorable ancestor and so on , but I'm proud of you being my oniisama , and I'm proud of you being my sempai . You and I are the same kind , but you are a beast that has the shape of a beautiful man all the time . In spite of you being a beast , you are weak somewhere . You are a liar you are somewhat vicious , and you have too many secrets . Although I promise to become your wife when we were little , i don't understand well whetever you really like me or not ... no ... you like me but it's mixed with various things ... Kaname ... I ... will start over watching you intently and firmly . I want to start over this . From here , I want to start this properly . This is my utmost answer to you . "





    [Note : this is just my interpretation . ]


    Chapter 75 makes more clear about why Yuuki got mixed messages from Kaname when she bited him . Makes a little more clear what was Yuuki's confussion .

    As I said a lot of times before , Kaname has a dual nature . With mixed feelings about Yuuki . He trully loves her . He desires the best for her , her liberty . At the same time he wanted Yuuki for himself . A think I call : Kaname being both Prince charming and Demon King at the same time .

    When Yuuki was turned human by Juuri , Kaname knew her spell wasn't permanent . Probably because he knew Yuuki has the power to break spells . So even as human , she could someday dispell whatever Juuri done to Yuuki . Kaname's original intention was to watch over Yuuki . Making sure her spell continues to be okay . In the case of failling , Kaname would proceed to remake it with his life as sacrifice .

    During those 10 years , Kaname knew he loved her with all his heart . So much as to not drinking flesh blood except for some rare instances . The Ruka incident ;where Kaname drank from Ruka to avoid drinking from Yuuki . And the time he drank from the human offering given by the Vampire Senate after he knew Yuuki could not give him more of the nurishment he desired from her . Losing days without sleeping as he knew Yuuki could not be his again .

    When the time for the spell breaking came . Yuuki started to lose her mind . She wanted answers from Kaname . To Kaname confess what he knew from her past life . Kaname said to her to become his lover as a way to protect her . Tried to continue hiding her past from her . Then Yuuki confess loving Kaname . Kaname snapped . His desire for her love ; to be at her side for eternity , was bigger than his original intention for recasting the spell to make a vampire human . Kaname needed Yuuki so much at his side ; he choses to turn her a pureblood vampire again . Instead of allowing Yuuki a life as an innocent human girl . Because of his love and desire for her .

    Most probably Kaname considered at that time he could eliminate all the elements he identified as harmful to Yuuki's well - being ( the Vampire Senate , Rido and the corrupt Vampire Hunter President ) . Then hide Yuuki until he could check everything in the Vampire society was stabilized enough to garantee Yuuki's safety .

    But for some reason around a year after living with Yuuki , Kaname decided vampire society continues to be dangerous for her . Maybe because of her powers . Maybe just because of her inexperience . Or her generous and kind nature . Or because vampires continues with their traditional ways to interact with humans . Or because some purebloods continues turning humans into Level E vampires . All of the above , some or even other reasons why to continue Yuuki being a target from enemies . That no matter how egoist he could be with him wanting to keep her from harm . Yuuki could be harm . As she wanted freedom to do what she wants . He began to plan how to protect her . His idea involved eliminating all the things he associated could harm Yuuki . His idea of protecting her implied getting her out of his plans to avoid Yuuki to be harmed or even dying . Maybe even considered making Kaien and / or Zero her protectors and shield again . Maybe even retaking the idea of returning Yuuki to human .

    Kaname had to be very confused what to do about Yuuki . When Yuuki drinks from him , she had to feel all those insecurities Kaname had about what to do with her : To love her as his mate /wife . But taking the chance of someone in the future harming or even kill her . Or to gave her her freedom . But by doing it sacrificing everything ( even his life ) for making her road free of obstacles .

    So basically Yuuki felt Kaname loved her when drinking his blood . But also felt his anxiety and insecurities about her well being . His feelings of sorrow to know he would not be with her forever as he wanted to be . As he had already taken the choice to leave her to implement the plan he believed could garantee her happiness . A live without needing to worry about vampires who could harm her . A plan which required sacrificing himself . Making Yuuki believe he had destroyed her trust and love .

    But Yuuki's answer to Kaname's denote . Even the contradictory feelings she got from Kaname were not enough to make her lost her trust and love for Kaname . So I want to see her next move . When she at last decided to look for Kaname and confront him about what its happening .
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:17 pm

    @accepting one's nature
    I agree with both, the point of the story is to accept one's nature. Kaname also gives an important message after Yuki became pureblood--she shouldn't deny her true nature.

    caela wrote: This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her.

    Yuki is already too naive to realize Sara's plans right under her nose, much less interpret a coded message inside a lie, IF it is a code. If she got too bored and has nothing to do perhaps there's a chance the thought will occur to her. But I doubt it, for now.

    My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association
    yes. exactly. the way the association is presented now, it seems their ways must be changed if the future will hold a new world for Yuki and its inhabitants. Either the HA function is nulled, all hunters are killed which doesn't make sense with idea of coexistence (since they also cant help their nature to hate, they are part of coexistence), or the hunters lose their job because there's no job--there are no more level Es, therefore no excuse to kill. I find that the hunters lose their job and HA purpose itself would be better. Also, this is another reason why I don't see Zero continuing to become HA president, because the HA itself is not pro-coexistence, its job relies on the beliefs of the hunters that compose it so it can be indiscriminate towards who should be killed. Another thing is, HA's purpose itself is to kill level E's, how can there be TRUE peace if blood is still shed, even the ones who needs to be.

    nina wrote:So for me the questions are:
    - How did Kaname knew about her
    ability back then since supposedly a baby PB hasn’t developed its
    abilities in such premature age … Could be cuz Yuuki had broke Kaname’s
    own spell (the one he put upon himself when he sealed his memory and
    turned into a baby) when she grabbed his finger for the first time?
    Kaname appears to start retrieving his memory around that age. ???
    - But IF so then another question rises … how he could guarantee that Yuuki wouldn’t break HIS spell as well in the future????
    Note her wording “I want them to see the many faces of this
    world and to enjoy their youth in a lively world where they’ll have all
    the freedom of laughing and crying at will …”
    I think this line is an innuendo about Juuri’s intention to turn her child into human …

    Also when Rido attacked their home with the intention to take Yuuki, Haruka
    said to Juuri that it was time to do what they had discussed long ago
    i.e. to sacrifice herself and turn Yuuki into human.

    So did they take that decision due to their previous terrible experience with their first child; or could it be cuz they knew how special would be Yuuki
    hence the extreme measures for her safety???

    good points. it may be so, I can understand why her parents would want to give her a different future as a human, but did they know it would be temporary? Or does only Kaname know Yuki's power to break spells? Also to go so far as to give his life to give Yuki a chance to be human in case juri's spell misses , Kaname gave away his original plans in exchange for yuki's happiness, with no thought of continuing it or securing her safety in the future. which means when he did the original plans he already thought of going for a long term investment that would secure not only Yuki's life but also her happiness in the future.



    What I’m trying to say here is that even IF Kaname’s plan is indeed
    to annihilate ALL the PBs that will be not enough for Yuuki’s safety
    neither for the mankind nor for the vampire race.
    Sure he’ll accomplish to stop the “production” of the level-es and ONE root of
    evilness but the nobles can pose a threat for Yuuki and for the humans
    with their superior abilities. The hunters won’t spare Yuuki as well and
    who says that they aren’t gonna exterminate the entire vampire race in
    the future (>>>Rima: “But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence.”).

    Therefore from what I understand both races are potentially victims and victimizers.
    Sothe problem here is far more complex to be solved only by wiping off
    ALL the PBs
    and moreover with Kaname’s sacrifice/death in the end. From
    what I can see this isn’t the solution and I think Kaname is far
    cleverer not to realise that!

    exactly nina. This is why I don't buy that "kill all purebloods" reason, it is too cheap for Kaname's taste and myself. It seems more like a preparation or a diversion, something else, but i don't think it is the main plan and the only plan he has. I'm definitely sure there's more here than meets they eye.
    To create a utopia for Yuki all the problems of all races and their issues must be addressed. In short if we think about it simplistically, it simply means wiping out EVERYONE and leaving Yuki ALONE, with the humans, probably. rofl
    She will live her life as an outcast, the last vampire, becoming some sort of lone hero in the distant future.. ah a possibility but a bad one. I still think Kaname will become part of her new life, it is, in a way, his redemption.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:23 pm

    caela wrote:
    Juliet's Isaya mention:
    My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association and then combine it with some vampire leadership, a combo Hunter association and Vampire counsel. Since Isaya is a pureblooded friend of Kaien, I think that Kaname is not going to kill Isaya but instead will approach Isaya to be a part of that new leadership.
    Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.

    About Isaya's note; I dare to assume that it was kaname that send it and yes, it prepared Isaya for what he was about to witness, therefore he almost stands there apathetic, doing nothing.

    (there is also the chance that Isaya informed Kaien about Kaname’s prominent visit and kaien took the bait and appeared to defend his friend).

    Of course that can only be my opinion, but right now I have nothing else to interpret, Kaien's sudden appearance there, Isaya's apathy and also "the bad reputation of the hunters" referred in the note.

    In general I agree, Isaya if an ally can be also used later on and finally step into action as a far more active figure.

    About Kaname's plan in relation to Yuuki ;
    It seems predetermined a long way back; we do not have information about it but eventually there are pieces of information that now fall into place;

    “We seem so cruel and even hesitant to sacrifice even one for the greater good”
    Spoiler:

    “A person like you, could you really stand against Kaname (or stop according to another translation?)
    Spoiler:

    It almost sounds like a prophecy, Aido-dono seems to know far more than he tells..

    “I want you to maintain peace; it’s the selfish wish of a parent”
    Spoiler:


    Aido-Dono seems to be very well aware of Kaname’s intentions, or he does not know them, he suspects them (unless he has premonitions too Cool ).


    caela wrote:
    This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her.

    I understand that Kaname wants to protect Yuuki, but protection from breaking all ties and trust with a person is very long-distanced.

    A logical question; Yuuki is already in the academy, tied up with a role and heavy duties. Kain seems to have no intention to let her go and this is exactly what he says to Kaname when he sees him.
    So why is Kaname going further than that? Actually, burdening and burning himself with lies such as he killed Ouri and going even further saying that he will go and kill Sara? (Confirming Sara’s fears when she pleaded Yuuki to enter the academy?)

    It’s not just about protection, is it? I believe that Kaname knows that Yuuki eventually will throw herself into action. He just wants to make sure that this action will be against him and that prior to that action, she will not have understood the show that is going on, actually falling for the already served dinner.

    Kaname feels confident that he knows the path that she will choose;
    Spoiler:

    Yuuki already showed who she wants to be and on which side she is going to stand;
    Spoiler:
    Spoiler:

    So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

    He should now have become, to her eyes, with all these he did and said, the one that will not allow co-existence and her ideas to flourish. Why?

    In my opinion, Kaname wants to force Yuuki to deliver him the final blow and be the one that shall receive his powers, becoming the one that will eventually realize the co-existence, be able to finally command and rule all. She who is pure and innocent and whose ideals are still alive and fresh.

    He does not want her to abandon her ideas and to sacrifice herself or burn herself with him; and he knows she will..
    Spoiler:

    Therefore, he has to find a way to stop her because falling with him is something he does not intend to allow; if Yuuki does not remain true to her ideals, there will be no one to deliver peace when Kaname’s plan to erase all threats and hate shall be accomplished and all the pillars for vampires will be shattered.

    And I think that’s the importance of Yuuki right now for kaname; not only to be safe but to be true and pure, to be the one that shall realize co-existence for him. She has to be, if not her, there is nobody else he can put trust and faith on. If there is a hope for him to change the condition of vampires, I believe that this hope is Yuuki.

    The hunters need to change/ their natural instincts are prohibiting the co-existence- The purebloods play foolish games out of boredom and are messing with the people> kaname knows by heart their history and both races’ crimes. So perhaps that’s a long game in order to turn the one against the other while other threats like Sara or threats that are summoned from the past to prohibit the co-existence, are also eliminated on the way.

    I tend to think that kaname’s decision to move forward with his plan was triggered Hanadagi’s awakening (whatever that means), and also Sara’s threats. That showed him that co-existence could not be realized through a long term project (as he had said at the HA meeting). In combination with Yuuki’s path, he can not afford the peaceful and long-term ways.

    In his mind. I believe Yuuki represents co-existence and he shall protect, defend and make her rise with all means.


    As he had already taken the choice to leave her to implement the plan he believed could garantee her happiness . A live without needing to worry about vampires who could harm her . A plan which required sacrificing himself . Making Yuuki believe he had destroyed her trust and love .

    I agree Mariange, and Kaname’s plan seems to involve this step that you described. I believe that Hino indirectly throws the idea of the sacrifice here through a flashback of the past.
    Kaname is a planner and too smart, but I hope that Yuuki proves to him that she shall not eat his excuses and his ready impressions.
    She needs to wake up before its too late and Kaname reaches the latest part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man that loves her more than his own life.


    This is my opinion, although I do not believe that kaname will sacrifice himself in the end, because other things will not let him, but until now I believe that's his ultimate intention and that's the role that he is keeping in his mind for Yuuki.

    eventually I think that his intention shows that Yuuki also has to sacrifice a part of her own hapiness, just as he did, for the ultimate good.

    Eventually the sacrifice wish can also be seen as his redemption and never been granted.

    And my bets are on Zero…haha... damn, he must do something (why did Hino give him a role? to stand there all day long? haha...)

    If you have other versions of kaname's plans (less pessimistic, please do write it!! LOL)






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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by Shoujo-Zo18 on Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:25 am

    I think Kaname's plan of action is more simple than he makes it out to be. He wants to get rid of all the purebloods an let yuuki live... he may or may not change her back into a human. How he does it though.... who knows.
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by caela on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:16 am

    I personally don't want to think that Yuuki would be not smart enough to know that Kaname did not kill Ouri. (Zero and Kaname are both in love with Yuuki for something.) I'm hoping that Kaname said that he killed Ouri for the sake of Kaien having something productive to report to the Hunter's and give a legal basis to charge Kaname with the murder of hunter who died with Ouri. This allows the Hunter's Association to take out Kaname.

    Juliet, my guesses of what Kaname might do:

    Spoiler:
    Kaname will go after Sara and frees Takuma at the Academy. Sara dies.

    Kaname gets arrested (on purpose) afterwards at the school by the hunters.
    (He wouldn't be able to enter Hunter headquarters without getting arrested due to their anti-vampire spells)

    While in the Hunter's Association, Kaname kills the power players, leaving a power vacuum and leaving Zero as President. (He would prefer Zero as president over anyone else because at least with Zero, Kaname knows all Zero's weaknesses and Kaname does have a blood bond with Zero, [compare with how Sara controls Takumi])

    Kaname gets recaputured (I guess Zero does this) and put on trial. I predict that we will see Kaname in chains (hopefully without a shirt)

    The trial sentences him to death and Kaname fakes his own execution.

    The only people who are aware that Kaname is still alive is Cross, Zero, Akatski, Isaya and Souen.

    Kaname hides out with Isaya and takes over the bodies of Akatski and Souen (they give permission) to influence the rest of the story from behind the scenes.






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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:16 pm

    juliet wrote:
    Aido-Dono seems to be very well aware of Kaname’s intentions, or
    he does not know them, he suspects them (unless he has premonitions too
    Cool ).

    yes Nagamichi seems to know something about Kaname's plans--before Kaname lopped his head off in chapter 67, Kaname said something to him and his eyes showed recognition or consent. It's not a reasonable expression for someone who just found out he's going to die, rather someone who knew very well the significance of his "death". And I have no doubts he knew it has something to do with Kaname's plans.
    Also he had knowledge about Sara--unlike the others who take her for granted, Nagamichi seems to be more vigilant towards her than the rest. He also knows about the seal on Hanadagi's castle and Hanadagi himself--whatever his role is. He knew about certain things that others did not seem to know, and this gives me the idea it played a part in the consent of his death.

    juliet wrote:
    So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will
    need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It
    almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

    He
    should now have become, to her eyes, with all these he did and said, the
    one that will not allow co-existence and her ideas to flourish. Why?

    In
    my opinion, Kaname wants to force Yuuki to deliver him the final blow
    and be the one that shall receive his powers, becoming the one that will
    eventually realize the co-existence, be able to finally command and
    rule all. She who is pure and innocent and whose ideals are still alive
    and fresh.

    He does not want her to abandon her ideas and to sacrifice herself or burn herself with him; and he knows she will..

    Therefore, he has to find a way to stop her because falling with him
    is something he does not intend to allow; if Yuuki does not remain
    true to her ideals, there will be no one to deliver peace when Kaname’s
    plan to erase all threats and hate shall be accomplished and all the
    pillars for vampires will be shattered.

    And I think that’s the
    importance of Yuuki right now for kaname; not only to be safe but to be
    true and pure, to be the one that shall realize co-existence for him.
    She has to be, if not her, there is nobody else he can put trust and
    faith on. If there is a hope for him to change the condition of
    vampires, I believe that this hope is Yuuki.

    somehow its too obvious. The fact this was also predicted by Kaname's haters way before this chapter makes it even more conspicuous. And conspicuous is not Hino's style. For countless times some of theories have been proven wrong even though it really seemed like it can only go there, for this reason im inclined to believe there's another path. Though I'm still thinking WHAT it is we are already at the bottom of the options here.


    She needs to wake up before its too late and Kaname reaches the latest
    part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man
    that loves her more than his own life.
    yes... but the question is, wake up to what realization?
    Kaname is evil? She already knew it and she accepted him despite that.
    Kaname must be stopped for her plans for peace?
    First of all, what does Yuki have for her plans for peace---- being a grimreaper? In essence she brings down the one who is causing chaos against peace/coexistence, but the question we have to ask is, IS Kaname the only one who is a threat to coexistence? Is his actions a threat to coexistence, who says it won't result to coexistence, and who says killing is evil when the hunters have approved of it and even Aido-dono's own death which he agreed to? This questions the very act of killing Kaname himself, when we still don't know WHERE and WHAT his actions will lead to, WHY he is doing it, and WHY is Sara ignored, who is ALSO A THREAT.

    WHY he deliberately turns everyone against him, YET he also promises to eliminate the VERY THREATS in vampire society-- THE PUREBLOODS. Or does he? ...

    What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain? Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?

    Ask yourself this question: So she stops him. Surely she must think her ways are better than his. So what are her ways, and how is it betteR?

    The Night class and prefect method is better? The night class whose president is the same one who is distributing tampered blood tablets in the streets and has more charisma than her?

    And if Yuki KILLS him in the end what did that achieve? If he killed all purebloods and that resulted to PEACE for both the hunters and humans, THEN Yuki killed him, she is the SLAYER of a HERO. And her consequence will lie heavily on her guilt, which she will live up to by trying to boost herself and in turn be the one to redeem herself---a Typical Suzaku Ending per Code Geass---in short, A PUNISHMENT ENDING, where Yuki is plagued with Guilt feelings and the feelings of Heavy Responsibility to continue Peace by her own hands. Alone. And even more so, burdened by the fact her lover was dead and she killed him, her chance to eternal happiness gone. She might as well die.

    Of course, Kaname would not want this for her.

    How can she become Kaname's substitute in delivering peace? How would you know that by eliminating Kaname by her hands, the world will be peaceful for her? How would you know that Yuki is the key to coexistence when she has poor leadership skills and her service has no customers so far, she is the weakest pureblood alive even subject to be usurped by the likes of Sara. WHAT does Kaname entrusts her to do, WHAT does his provocations do to her trust in him, and WHY does she not have to hesitate in doing what he wants?

    The point I'm trying to make is that Yuki looks like someone who will eventually end up saving lives and being the KEY to coexistence, IMO imagine if the only thing she does to fulfill this is to kill Kaname who kills purebloods or finished killing purebloods it doesn't make sense---what did she achieve there? What did she rid the world of? Presuming she had only given redemption to one man, while Kaname had paved the way for change to happen in VS. What then? We have seen her skills in leading vampires, and it is poor. Can we say she can lead the new change Kaname presumably invoked in Society? No. Yuki, by herself, appears to be useless in leading.

    In this sense, and my above reasoning I don't believe in an ending where Kaname dies, but an ending where Yuki redeems herself as a heroine of the story. To have ultimately lived up to her own words---that she does not want to see sadness nor cruelty--must be solidified until the very end, to see to it no one has to die for her sake again.

    She has wasted lives on her existence, it is her turn to give back.


    And my bets are on Zero…haha... damn, he must do something (why did Hino give him a role? to stand there all day long? haha...)
    well, his role still stands. But ok, I think he will do something, we all know he is predictable and simple enough to see he will eventually help Yuki in the future. Somehow its his only role and the only one that makes sense. He had helped Yuki by giving her blood to achieve her role, in a way she had "tamed" him a little, I think Zero will play his role again to bring Yuki and Kaname together, as he always did in the first arc.


    Last edited by sweetsolace on Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by caela on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 pm

    What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain? Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?

    I agree with sweetsolace. Kaname is not trying to be killed by Yuuki, at least not yet, considering how weak Yuuki is right now.

    Kaname has been very public about his actions of killing purebloods. That is not his normal style: he would usually have others do his dirty work for him (Zero was the first to seriously wound Shizuka and was the one who killed Rido). He is trying to draw attention and I think he is trying to draw the attention of the enemy of the purebloods.

    The enemy of the purebloods is not Rido: Rido was still vampire jelly (due to pre-teen Kaname) when the Hunter's execution list was changed to have the name of Shizuka Hio's human lover.

    To draw the ultimate bad guy of VK out in the open, Kaname will have to very publicly kill some people (to draw attention) and then very publicly die. Kaname is too strong a protector of Yuuki for this enemy to attack Yuuki right now. The way Kaname killed Touma shows that Kaname can fake his own death convincingly. I think all this points to a fake capture, public trial and execution (by either the vampires or the Hunters) of Kaname that Yuuki can't stop. Kaname is looking for all the attention he can get.

    (I also think that it would be alot more work to convince Yuuki to kill Kaname)

    Kaname had Aidou and Takuma in his night class for a reason: these two are the future heads of the most politically powerful vampire noble families. This is part of Kaname's overall protection plan for Yuuki. I don't think it is also a coincidence that Zero received so much Kuran blood and that Zero is next-in-line for the Hunter presidency. Zero is also part of Kaname's long term plan for Yuuki.

    Is Zero suitable for that role? Right now, no. Is he showing any progress with his extreme hatred for purebloods? I personally think that Zero pointed the gun at Yuuki in chapter 75 because she was getting too chummy with Zero and he is not about to get romantically involved with someone with a fiancee. He is focused on getting some emotional distance with Yuuki.

    When Sara showed up, Zero put the gun down, instead of threatening Sara as well (like he did in chapter 46 with Kaname's arrival at another Zero-pointing-gun-at-Yuuki scene.) Zero's actions in chapter 75 doesn't reflect his hatred for purebloods; its a clumsy way of telling Yuuki to get lost, your blood smells too good, I can't think straight when you're around...etc.

    Ok then, so again, is there any possibility that Zero will change his mind about pureblood genocide (hitler, pol pot, etc...I think that genocide is considered evil in any culture.) Does the fact he put down the gun when Sara came, who is another pureblood, impress anyone? I mean, it is progress for Zero.





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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:15 pm

    Kaname is not trying to be killed by Yuuki, at least not yet, considering how weak Yuuki is right now.
    Its the point of Yuki killing Kaname. If she killed him, she will carry the responsibility of continuing what he started, its a given. And the way she is now doesn't seem too solid or promising.

    Kaname has been very public about his actions of killing purebloods.
    That is not his normal style: he would usually have others do his
    dirty work for him (Zero was the first to seriously wound Shizuka and
    was the one who killed Rido). He is trying to draw attention and I
    think he is trying to draw the attention of the enemy of the purebloods.

    The
    enemy of the purebloods is not Rido: Rido was still vampire jelly (due
    to pre-teen Kaname) when the Hunter's execution list was changed to
    have the name of Shizuka Hio's human lover.

    To draw the
    ultimate bad guy of VK out in the open, Kaname will have to very
    publicly kill some people (to draw attention) and then very publicly
    die.
    The way Kaname killed Touma shows that Kaname can fake his own death
    convincingly. I think all this points to a fake capture, public trial
    and execution (by either the vampires or the Hunters) of Kaname that
    Yuuki can't stop. Kaname is looking for all the attention he can get.
    I agree, seems like he is luring someone out into the open, or so I think.

    yes It does seem like he wants a lot of attention. He is trying his best I believe. As for the fake trial/execution it seems possible as he did use his bats to cover up Touma, maybe he let Kaien and Isaya see that intentionally to show that he is capable of such deception? So they will know what to think if they see this fake execution happen? Kaien and Isaya as we know are two of his trusted friends/allies/colleagues. It also fits that he is demoralizing Yuki so she would not be too miserable once she finds out his supposed death, if thats his intention, then Kaname would not want to involve her further.

    Though another question rises, why fake his death? so he plunges himself into a series of criminal acts, suffers the consequences for it thru the fake execution, and then? the ultimate boss of VK comes out when yuki is most vulnerable? hmmm this seems like a likely idea Smile

    Kaname
    had Aidou and Takuma in his night class for a reason: these two are the
    future heads of the most politically powerful vampire noble families.
    This is part of Kaname's overall protection plan for Yuuki.
    The Aido family is the pro Kuran faction, while Ichijou family is in the anti Kuran faction, so is the Shiki who is in the night class.
    For now doesn't seem to make sense how Hanabusa is going to turn powerful leader someday, nor is Takuma who is under Sara's control nor Senri or Rima.

    I don't
    think it is also a coincidence that Zero received so much Kuran blood
    and that Zero is next-in-line for the Hunter presidency. Zero is also
    part of Kaname's long term plan for Yuuki.
    who knows. Kaname gave him blood as replacement for Shizuka's blood, it was the contingency plan, the reason was for Zero to kill Rido later on. Kaname might have planned Zero beside Yuki through Kaien though we've yet to know. Zero is apparently stabilized through multiple blood he received, not only Kaname's.


    Does the fact he put down the gun when Sara came, who is another
    pureblood, impress anyone? I mean, it is progress for Zero.
    ok I didn't notice that, but i think if he knows something about Sara and he doesnt want to make it obvious he would refrain from alarming her, especially when she is acting suspicious of every single thing.
    I think Zero's surprised Yuki told him he was kind, he had tried to show the opposite for the past few chapters--struggled to it--and she saw through him. I bet he was pissed. We all know he cares and shows it through being rough, though its understandable he'll snap when someone says he's kind while he does it.
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    juliet
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by juliet on Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:24 pm

    Also he had knowledge about Sara--unlike the others who take her for granted, Nagamichi seems to be more vigilant towards her than the rest. He also knows about the seal on Hanadagi's castle and Hanadagi himself--whatever his role is. He knew about certain things that others did not seem to know, and this gives me the idea it played a part in the consent of his death.

    It certainly does, but he seems to already have stated that; “Few to sacrifice for many to be saved”
    So in a way an answer is provided to us; Kaname’s plan has good intentions, I believe than in order to justify it, Hino will use the above lines to redeem Kaname. Ιt seems an acceptable and possible outcome.

    somehow its too obvious. The fact this was also predicted by Kaname's haters way before this chapter makes it even more conspicuous. And conspicuous is not Hino's style. For countless times some of theories have been proven wrong even though it really seemed like it can only go there, for this reason im inclined to believe there's another path.

    I am talking about Kaname’s plan and not the actual script and the course that is going to take. Sorry if that is not obvious. I believe that Kaname, yes intends to sacrifice himself in order to supply Yuuki with his power ; perhaps through that he wants to achieve another goal as well that has to do with the vampires and the hunters. Not sure though about the last.

    You seem to disagree with Yuuki’s importancy but why?

    Yuuki’s path as you say is “In essence she brings down the one who is causing chaos against peace/coexistence” and that’s a task that she decided for herself. That is the path that she wants to follow.

    Apparently there are two ways for kaname;

    One to prohibit her to walk that path and keep her to himself (but in that way he would make her unhappy; chained Yuuki in image with Rido) and one to support her (happy Yuuki smiling with the vase). But isn’t the last image (the free Yuuki) the one in /kaname’s mind that shall bring her the ultimate happiness?
    I think that Kaname thinks that her happiness is indentified with that role. Perhaps Kaname sees that in their eternal time, this task is far more important, than binding down Yuuki with him.

    Remember what he said to Kaien; “Yuuki has chosen her own path, I have no means to bind her”.

    That still shows his perception that Yuuki will need to achieve her goals in order to be happy. But again, I just say I think that this is his perception.

    IS Kaname the only one who is a threat to coexistence? Is his actions a threat to coexistence, who says it won't result to coexistence, and who says killing is evil when the hunters have approved of it and even Aido-dono's own death which he agreed to?

    I said in my post that Kaname wants to be seen by Yuuki as as if he is a threat to co-existence.

    Previous quote…
    So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It
    almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

    I never said that his actions are NOT leading to co-existence, if he wants to protects Yuuki, he needs co-existence and if he wants co-existence he also needs Yuuki safe because I believe that she will become the main pillar,for me that’s one and the same.
    So how can it be that Kaname does not support co-existence when he is going extreme in order to keep Yuuki safe but also innocent from the crimes that he is accused now?
    How can she become Kaname's substitute in delivering peace?
    Ah this is what they also wondered;
    Spoiler:

    She already is, it’s actually Kaname that opened for her the way to become his substitute as with his absence, the hunters passed the Kuran’s legacy to her shoulders. So the typical part has been fulfilled.

    Yuuki is now the representative of the peace treaty, and stands where he stood. We all know that she has taken that role in order to preserve the prosperity of the vampires, and we all know that she wants to try and prove herself at that field.

    So what Kaname’s last message to Kaien: “I killed Ouri, I am coming for Sara..” conveys? When he knows that he does not just say that to Yuuki but to the current representative of the peace treaty?

    So I think that his intention to be perceived as the enemy of co-existence is obvious. And that’s the problem that I see here; because he does not limit himself to her protection but he tries to invade her ideals, her role, her responsibilities and challenges to choose.

    The hunters may not care about co-existence but Yuuki is right now at that school promoting the ideal and she has the total responsibility for the nobles that followed her and the families that supported her there.

    So eventually Kaname obliges Yuuki (due to her position) to stand against him. Or brings out a dilemma…on which side is she going to stand?/ which positions is she going to defend? What am I trying to explore is the “Why?” Why to go that far? In relation to Yuuki’s weakness to actually do anything, what is he trying to achieve?

    For me the most obvious answer is because Kaname wants Yuuki to defend her path and her position and in that way, he can promote her further in the eyes of the vampire society. To earn recognition and respect, to detach herself from him and finally be able to walk on her path without ties, binds and restrictions. You said it yourself “Yuuki cannot support her ideals, she is far too weak”.

    she is the weakest pureblood alive even subject to be usurped by the likes of Sara.

    Kaname knows about her weakness that prohibits her from realizing her plans.
    Spoiler:

    And perhaps his plan also targets at aiding her in this destination.
    The hunters are talking in front of her as if she is thin air, no one takes seriously her role and her obligations. This needs to be changed. How? That’s a thought. Can it be that Kaname creates the conditions that can promote Yuuki at the leadership in a fast forward motion? I am thinking possibilities here.
    Right now Yuuki is thinking going after him, but if she follows him at this dark path, she could highly risk her role and lose the faith and the trust of the vampires and the nobles. What they said to her;
    Spoiler:
    [

    They hardly trusted her and to me it seems that right now her choice, her path is restricted.

    So for kaname wants to avoid that, he wants to prevent Yuuki from throwing that title and that crucial role away and right now to jeopardize to identified with a “killer” and a “bersek”.

    In combination to the above and the difficult dilemma that he is creating to her, it shows me that he has other plans for Yuuki, which are not limited solely at her protection, Yuuki’s destination seems greater than this and Kaname guards it.

    How would you know that Yuki is the key to coexistence when she has poor leadership skills and her service has no customers so far.

    Wish that her service never gets customers…

    How do I know? If someone is putting Yuuki as a key, and is turning her little existence into a great one, that’s Kaname; when he decides to drive these actions, when he decides to reach the extremes in order to keep her safe, he is the one making her existence important. And that’s because he knows who she is.If it was all about a girl,any girl that he favored apparently he would not intend to sacrifice himself for her when she was human, neither make all these efforts for her.

    We already saw Kaname’s path in the past; it led to co-existence and peace and Yuuki’s path is not different. Weak or powerful; it makes no difference, it is the intentions that count and she is a Kuran after all, her legacy is undeniable, it has already been charged to her. Sooner or later she shall become what she is destined to be.

    I believe that he believes in her; what she believed, he also believed; he also wanted to sacrifice himself for the humans (the innocent ones), he also never hurt humans, and he also choose to take a path defending the weak ones against the powerful.

    That’s exactly what Yuuki stated to Isaya that she is willing to do; that’s her path. Her path was his path.

    It also belonged to him also. And he knows that these kind of people are willing to make sacrifices for the others to be saved, he knows it not only from the ancestor but also from himself.

    So apparently, if Yuuki can do something, she might be after all willing to do it. That is the fear that drove Kaname into taking action; we cannot ignore it.
    As I said before, it’s obvious has the intentions but not the means and that’s a dangerous combination because she needs to grow but she also needs to be prevented.

    If Yuuki’s character does not develop into something greater, and if Kaname’s actions are driven by his motive to keep her safe and just concern her as a simple girl all the script shall fail to convey true meaning and significance.

    What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain?
    The question is who he wants to be? For others he wants to be the villain and he is going desperately in trying to be identified as “dangerous” and “bersek”, in reality yes he is a hero, and I believe a heart made of gold.

    Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?
    She cannot actualize co-existence by herself that’s why I said; Actually my deepest fear is that Kaname will realize co-existence for her but totally “burn” himself in the process.

    I said…
    She needs to wake up before it’s too late and Kaname reaches the latest part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man that loves her more than his own life.

    The latest part…when kaname will have actualize and opened the way to co-existence by cleaning the way from the threats, and he shall ask her to grand him freedom and redemption as he may go on killing more innoncents (I suspect that can be his ultimate reason to force her to kill him – reminding to her, her services).

    In addition, what he may try to achieve will be (according to my opinion) his own sacrifice in order to pass the ultimate power to Yuuki so she can finally be undoubtedly the pillar of the society in all means.

    The only people who are aware that Kaname is still alive is Cross, Zero, Akatski, Isaya and Souen. Kaname hides out with Isaya and takes over the bodies of Akatski and Souen (they give permission) to influence the rest of the story from behind the scenes.

    You have already heard Kaname, if it is to leave without Yuuki he prefers to be killed by her own hands.

    And if Yuki KILLS him in the end what did that achieve? If he killed all purebloods and that resulted to PEACE for both the hunters and humans, THEN Yuki killed him, she is the SLAYER of a HERO.

    I do not think that she will kill him on her own will, if she would kill him, it would be, because he would have wanted her to kill him and he would present it (I assume if that ever happened) as if she has no orher choice.

    Apparently the “sacrifice” part worries me because kaname has that tendency (twice) in the past and because by the end of the story he will be the one who will have taken all the burdens and the crimes on his shoulders.

    What I am actually thinking is that he would be wanting Yuuki to receive the acknowledgements and the glory, Yuuki to be the one that shall rip the fruits of this success and finally to fulfill her role (meeting free her destiny), the ultimate happiness for her as he has it in his mind.
    Therefore he would not want anyone to know and reveal his true intentions. He would not like anyone to attribute to him the title of the “hero”.

    @ Yes I know, I ‘ ve written a story myself here (you know) that can not be avoided with me, but anyway, I am talking about Kaname’s plan, not the actual plot. Apparently many more things may come in the way and Yuuki will need to make a great twist. I agree its time to pay her dues and show that she can support what she initiated.








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    sweetsolace
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    Re: Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

    Post by sweetsolace on Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:36 am

    @juliet

    I am talking about Kaname’s plan and not the actual script and the course that is going to take. Sorry if that is not obvious.

    are you kidding me?? you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

    You seem to disagree with Yuuki’s importancy but why?
    no I didn't disagree, I was questioning her importancy as heroine of the story. She has to redeem herself as the main character, and only killing Kaname doesn't make sense for me.


    Apparently there are two ways for kaname;

    One to prohibit
    her to walk that path and keep her to himself (but in that way he would
    make her unhappy; chained Yuuki in image with Rido) and one to support
    her (happy Yuuki smiling with the vase). But isn’t the last image (the
    free Yuuki) the one in /kaname’s mind that shall bring her the ultimate
    happiness?
    I think that Kaname thinks that her happiness is
    indentified with that role. Perhaps Kaname sees that in their eternal
    time, this task is far more important, than binding down Yuuki with him.

    Remember what he said to Kaien; “Yuuki has chosen her own path, I have no means to bind her”.

    That
    still shows his perception that Yuuki will need to achieve her goals in
    order to be happy. But again, I just say I think that this is his
    perception.

    those were his contradictions, and it helped him decide his next moves--which was to let her go.

    yes, he said "I no longer have the means to bind her to me". What are the means he was talking about? chains, padlocks, his love? and was Yuki bound to him? was Kaname enforcing her to do household chores like Kaien does to keep her occupied, and therefore bound to him? How is he binding her?

    Kaname was the one who said before, "Yuki I already know which path you will take.. You have held this hands for so long.."
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c063/13.html
    And now he's saying, "Yuki has already chosen her path" --But what IS her path?

    path to freedom? is that what she wanted? Its what Kaname decided.
    Also see that its Kaname who decided this, not her. He tells her he knows which path she will take, but he also forces her to go on this path by leaving her. The path was forced onto her--Kaname left her and she's forced to be with Kaien and Zero, Kaname tells lies and kills, pitting Yuki to decide to stop him. Its a path he decided she would take, a path he influenced her to take, and a path she had no decision over.

    But do we really know what she's going to do? No. We only know she will stop him--HOW? It doesn't convince me, she can't even do anything to the hunters--when in fact she can control them as a pureblood. And yet she fears for her life while with them, too peace-loving Yuki.

    I said in my post that Kaname wants to be seen by Yuuki as as if he is a threat to co-existence.

    I
    never said that his actions are NOT leading to co-existence,

    the questions were things that needed to be answered by Yuki or anyone, not specifically you. It questions the logic of his actions---if he's indeed planned to kill himself by Yuki's hands because he's demoralizing her, as your post keep reiterating.

    if he
    wants to protects Yuuki, he needs co-existence and if he wants
    co-existence he also needs Yuuki safe because I believe that she will
    become the main pillar,for me that’s one and the same.
    So how can it
    be that Kaname does not support co-existence when he is going extreme
    in order to keep Yuuki safe but also innocent from the crimes that he is
    accused now?
    we're actually NOT SURE of what Kaname's saying, if its a game or its for real. He is so cryptic so Im actually wondering how you can sound certain it would be that simple for him. Obviously he's willing to go through all of this to achieve something, the question is what is that? and how it ties to the events? The path of "Yuki will kill him" only answers one set of questions--what about the rest? whats the volcano for, what does he plan to do with Sara, Isaya or Kaien? What did he plan for Yuki? He says he hesitated in his original plans before and now he's resuming it-- BUT is killing all purebloods just that or is that only a facade, a prologue to his Original Plans? And will this O.P. bring coexistence? is he planning coexistence? do you know?
    is it still about Yuki or his O.P.? if its about Yuki, how?
    this questions need to be answered.


    She already is, it’s actually Kaname that opened for her the way
    to become his substitute as with his absence, the hunters passed the
    Kuran’s legacy to her shoulders. So the typical part has been fulfilled.


    Yuuki is now the representative of the peace treaty, and stands
    where he stood. We all know that she has taken that role in order to
    preserve the prosperity of the vampires, and we all know that she wants
    to try and prove herself at that field.

    BUT WHO is leading the night class now? Not Yuki, SARA. she lost by CHARISMA alone. Rima herself says she needed it to lead. she doesnt have it.
    And she still hasn't noticed she is doing her blood tablets right under her. And you say that she is the substitute for Peace? O_o
    What was the RESPONSE of Yuki soliciting help from the nobles? They were actually reluctant because of Kaname's actions outside, how do you say he had facilitated her entry to become "his substitute" when he did not prepare or aided it by his present actions?
    Kaien was the one who forced her to do Kuran responsibility, to keep her away as you have once said , if Kaname predicted this too then he's going risky here, he left her in a daycare center to be cared for and play with other children---I don't see Yuki being a good leader when she's weak, presently, she needed to drink blood because she cant tolerate tablets, she lacked charisma to lead, her name as Kuran is presently not helping. Her leadership is presently being challenged and even MOCKED. I don't see this as a productive step towards leadership, but more like a daycare center where she is left out of Kaname's path while he goes on to his job.


    So what Kaname’s last message to Kaien: “I killed Ouri, I am
    coming for Sara..” conveys? When he knows that he does not just say that
    to Yuuki but to the current representative of the peace treaty?

    So
    I think that his intention to be perceived as the enemy of co-existence
    is obvious. And that’s the problem that I see here; because he does not
    limit himself to her protection but he tries to invade her ideals, her
    role, her responsibilities and challenges to choose.
    it is like I said previously, we have to ask ourselves what coexistence means right now in vampire knight. If purebloods go down, that will mean peace, right? Tell me im not wrong. Purebloods ARE most often the antagonist in the story. The hunters even liked the idea, but Kaien does not. why Kaien hates it? it means killing and it goes against his school's ideology to try to live together. Yuki goes against it because it kills even the innocent ones.
    Kaien and Yuki's solution is to herd a pack of vampires and humans to show living together is possible, in short they want a REPEAT of THE FIRST ARC---PREFECTS SECRECY galore, meanwhile hiding existence of vampires to humans. BUT where is the PUREBLOODS in this HERD, the purebloods which Kaname is addressing? The nobles say purebloods can only fight purebloods, the hunters don't do anything to enforce law on the purebloods, and now Kaname is killing them ITS WRONG? Now this goes back to the question, if Kaien and Yuki thinks its wrong then whats the solution?
    Yuki's grimreaper service, come all who wants to die I will give it to you? Yagari also said the same thing after the ball incident, "those pbs who want to die come here and we'll give it". But even Isaya says its a ridiculous idea, and yes it is, who would volunteer for death when you can have everything? so what's the REAL solution here?
    What makes Kaname WRONG in killing purebloods?
    How is coexistence done in VK, when whats being shown now is A REPEAT of the first arc? so this is Kaien and Yuki's ideology? a REPEAT?
    What makes Kaname's solution a bad one and why it has to be stopped, according to Yuki?
    I hope I'm getting across here, but what Kaname's doing is seen as bad because of the killing part in my opinion, but what makes it different from Yuki's or Kaien's?
    If Kaien for example says he represents peace and the treaty de blah, then how come he had just ALLOWED the one who will disrupt peace inside his academy--SARA?
    And if Yuki wants to stop Kaname for killing the innocent purebloods, then why is she allowing the one who will disrupt coexistence TO BECOME PRESIDENT instead of her?
    Sara here represents THE IRONY of their ideas.
    So they are against Kaname because he is killing, but they didn't know they already ALLOWED someone who might destroy peace itself.


    What am I trying to explore is the “Why?” Why to go that far? In
    relation to Yuuki’s weakness to actually do anything, what is he trying
    to achieve?
    I have the same question. But again, conspicuous is not Hino's style in my opinion. Something that had already been massively predicted--Kaname will be killed by Yuki's hands-- may not happen. I dont think its that simple.


    For me the most obvious answer is because Kaname wants Yuuki to
    defend her path and her position and in that way, he can promote her
    further in the eyes of the vampire society. To earn recognition and
    respect, to detach herself from him and finally be able to walk on her
    path without ties, binds and restrictions. You said it yourself “Yuuki
    cannot support her ideals, she is far too weak”.
    Kaname's actions does not support Yuki's. It actually contradicts. At the start of the project the nobles were wary of giving her support because of Kaname, and even now her position runs a thin line between immature and average. How is she going to redeem herself?
    Think about it, if Kaname just does all this to piss her off so she would kill him in the end because she's the Good Girl and he's the Bad Guy---what about Kaname's Original plan?
    it seems to me the most obvious yet reasonable that he's doing this to cleanse the "bad roots" and let it be known to others he is doing so especially Yuki, she will kill him and then she'll be known as the hero who will lead everyone to the Repeat of the First Arc School and Prefect System.
    This is probably the most boring ending and repeat ever.


    Right now Yuuki is thinking going after him, but if she follows him
    at this dark path, she could highly risk her role and lose the faith and
    the trust of the vampires and the nobles.

    They hardly trusted her and to me it seems that right now her choice, her path is restricted.

    So
    for kaname wants to avoid that, he wants to prevent Yuuki from
    throwing that title and that crucial role away and right now to
    jeopardize to identified with a “killer” and a “bersek”.

    In
    combination to the above and the difficult dilemma that he is creating
    to her, it shows me that he has other plans for Yuuki, which are not
    limited solely at her protection, Yuuki’s destination seems greater than
    this and Kaname guards it.
    ...
    that's it? he's doing all that lying to keep her away? LOL. honey, its just too simple. which is why I agree with the bolded part. still lots to reveal. and we're not even at the ending yet.

    How do I know? If someone is putting Yuuki as a key, and is turning
    her little existence into a great one, that’s Kaname; when he decides to
    drive these actions, when he decides to reach the extremes in order to
    keep her safe, he is the one making her existence important. And that’s
    because he knows who she is.If it was all about a girl,any girl that he
    favored apparently he would not intend to sacrifice himself for her when
    she was human, neither make all these efforts for her.
    Exactly, he safeguards her for a more important role, or a reason. What that is, we'll find out...


    We already saw Kaname’s path in the past; it led to co-existence and
    peace and Yuuki’s path is not different. Weak or powerful; it makes no
    difference, it is the intentions that count and she is a Kuran after
    all, her legacy is undeniable, it has already been charged to her.
    Sooner or later she shall become what she is destined to be.
    how do you answer to Sara then? a bad pureblood managed to prove she got the upperhand to the Representative of Peace and Kaname's Substitute Yuki. That was no longer about being weak or powerful, it was a danger sign even, that Yuki can be tricked in the future, which is not good if all this advertises a Better Future.
    If Kaname is ensuring she will turn out to be a better substitute for him, shouldn't he have prepped her more?


    Actually my deepest fear is that Kaname will realize co-existence for
    her but totally “burn” himself in the process.
    which is why I said makes it a punishment ending. Yuki is forced to go on a path that Kaname decides for her, he places the burden of his supposed death onto her guilt, which drives her forward, relentlessly, to work on his goals---her goals too. In a Repeat of the First Arc.

    In addition, what he may try to achieve will be (according to my
    opinion) his own sacrifice in order to pass the ultimate power to Yuuki
    so she can finally be undoubtedly the pillar of the society in all
    means.
    and then what will Yuki do to the hunters who are threatening her life, stopping her from going after Kaname?
    I suppose when she got Kaname's powers she will take them off the picture too, lol, then this just trashes the whole idea of PC.
    another thing you're suggesting here is that Yuki becomes the only pureblood alive which creates problems for the hierarchy of vampires as already mentioned--unless she makes herself Queen Bee the "pillar of society", which contradicts what Kaname said about purebloods being revered.
    So she stays at the academy to create a Repeat of the prefect system, same thing. and then?
    do we start reading from chapter 1 again? LOL
    Whats happening right now is a REPEAT just Yuki swapped uniforms so she's wearing white now.
    in which case both the idea of Yuki being pureblood queen and Yuki being night dorm president is contradicting to several ideas presented currently.


    You have already heard Kaname, if it is to leave without Yuuki he prefers to be killed by her own hands.
    that was IF Yuki left him. It was KANAME who LEFT HER.
    and that was IF Yuki choose to leave him. she wants to go after him presently.


    I do not think that she will kill him on her own will, if she would
    kill him, it would be, because he would have wanted her to kill him and
    he would present it (I assume if that ever happened) as if she has no
    orher choice.
    so what are you saying, that he is going to force the decision to make her? affraid
    HE WILL FORCE HER TO KILL HIM?
    WHAT KIND OF ENDING IS THAT? Where's the love there?
    not only does this make it selfish and full of assumptions you have concluded, but it also sounds contrived now. affraid Yuki has to be forced upon a circumstance by which she must raise her artemis down and kill him---AGAIN AND AGAIN, THIS CONTRADICTS HER IDEA THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO SUFFER. DEATH is still suffering.

    And all this because of what Kaname said, you've already reached a FINALE here as if you've been thinking and planning how it can happen all along, struggling to reach a possible conclusion where it ends in death. But how sure are you?

    Remember how you thought Kaien was being a bad father a chapter ago? and NOW, what is he now? Cool

    @ Yes I know, I ‘ ve written a story myself here (you know) that
    can not be avoided with me, but anyway, I am talking about Kaname’s
    plan, not the actual plot. Apparently many more things may come in the
    way and Yuuki will need to make a great twist. I agree its time to pay
    her dues and show that she can support what she initiated.

    Kaname drops an uncertain hint and you RUN with it to the finish line faster than anyone else as if someone's actually chasing...

    I hope there's actually a rope waiting there for you because I'm not betting on this "race" in the first place....

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