Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

First topic message reminder :

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

[quote="aya-chan]

how you said, sara can target yori. sara knows already yori is a close friend to yuuki and zero. sara will not let escape an opportunity to cause more ploblems. she want to join night class just for fun - sara is a very boored vampire. probably sara will want to turn yori into a vampire. yori probably will appear more in the next chapters.

probably sara will attempt to hurt yuuki too. sara made her moves with a reason and her main goal is too kill kaname. at some point she will lure kaname from where he is. if sara will try to hurt yuuki, kaname will want to chop her head off. kaname will not allow for someone to hurt his precious girl.

kaname-sama where are you? two panels with you wasn't enough for me [/quote]

Me too Aya...very interesting the idea Sara going for Yori in the academy- after all their acquaintance to the vampire's ball seems to pinpoint at a further interaction between the two. Sara was quite fond of Yori and Yori can be used perhaps to contro Yuuki or to eliminate her moves?
what if Sara turned Yori to a slave (another vampire?)...and the others should hide the fact or Yuuki's night class would be in extreme danger.
Of course with Sara in there there is an extreme danger for all the girls but she would not go that far.
also the hunters - I believe they must know- didn't they monitor her moves? they did...I think that right now, perhaps briging her in could be more convenient (they can think of it) in order to better control her than to have her lose outside, especially since now there is the nightclass and all attention is diverted there.

I think that maybe we have another clue in chapter 72 about Kaname’s plan and what he is doing …

But first of all I think we have the confirmation that Kaname was the first King after all … the phrase on the cover "The King who cast aside the world he could see from the throne..." puts Kaname in that position … Now if was he, who also stepped down from his throne and established the senate; I don’t know …

Now since his plan is the original one he had as an ancestor/King we can assume that he is finishing the unfinished job … but what he was doing back then?

We know he “declared” the war against the PBs ancestors who were creating slaves massively. The creation of the anti-vampire weapons and the hunters was a declaration of war lol. So the opponents in that war should be …

a) Kaname as a leader of the ancestors who were against the idea of turning humans into vampires, plus the hunters, plus maybe humans; << for the later I’m not sure cuz their contribution in such war could be limited if not zero …
b) The ancestors-PBs plus their slaves, ex-humans vampires … Now I’m speculate that these ancestors could be the so called “protectors of the PBs” since they wanted to maintain the power to turn the humans into vampires/slaves and also cuz their opponents were killing off PBs.

I’m basing my theory of who were the opponents on hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-18/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

… “more than half of our race has chosen the ideology of turning the entire human population … into submissive slaves” <<< so the majority of the ancestors were against Kaname but I suppose some of them were by his side.

So my idea is that Kaname is wiping off his opponents from back then aka the remaining ancestors (?).

Clues for that ^^^.

1. First of all hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-20/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“… the only way to stop the multiplication of ex-humans being turned is to cut the problem down at the root” … what was the root? I suppose one root could be the ancestors …

2. Hanadagi’s servant’s words … “the Hanadagi family … the protectors of the PBs” << could be this is an indication of the “side” which Hanadagi belonged? I think it is … also Hanadagi was an ancestor and the head of his clan, so it is plausible Kaname and Hanadagi to were old acquaintances or better old enemies from the first war …

3. In the latest chapter (72) Kaname is being accused of killing off the head of the Hio’s who was also in slumber! Hio’s situation resembles with Hanadagi’s case … both of them were the heads of their clans and also in slumber so currently they didn’t do anything wrong. But maybe the head of the Hio’s was also an ancestor; … since Shizuka was much older than Kaname and she wasn’t the head we can assume that the leader of the Hio’s was after all an ancestor; (much older than Shizuka so approximately we driven back on ancestors era).

Another hypothesis from my part … since Kaname became at some point the King of his race I suppose that requires that he won the war; and then for some unknown reason out of despair he chose the eternal slumber. But what happened to his opponents viz the other ancestors? Maybe the ones who survived of the war chose also to go into slumber? Possible … but the question is before Kaname’s slumber; (as an acceptance of defeat ;) or after Kaname’s slumber???? I’m guessing after Kaname’s slumber judging again from the words of Hanadagi’s servant that her lord chose to sleep for 500 years and there are still 400 left before he awakes so he went into slumber 100 years ago, viz way after Kaname’s slumber. Another question … why the ancestors?! And is this enough???

Well I suppose that the remaining of the ancestors were his enemies since Kaname said (before his slumber) that before he notice he was completely alone…

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… ergo if not all of his allies the majority of them were killed.

Also as we know from the fanbook the ancestors are even more powerful from the second PBs generation … so exterminating them right after they’re awakening from their slumber (<< being weaker) is an easier job and avoids annecessary bloodshed ... but the second question remains unanswered ... is this enough? I don’t know … but certainly we still missing lots of info …

Anyway my point was that maybe we can form an idea of how Kaname choosing his targets … based on what criteria? Cuz we’re in the dark for so much time arghhh …

Nina, wonderful idea you have there...

I want to add...

"Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.
Also the war might have ended because the mean purebloods retreated and went into slumber. This is also possible that Kaname did not finish them then, so they survived with their clans up to this days…featuring the same ideology.
Another point that supports here your theory is kaname’s latest attack to Hio’s.
Shizuka for example – Hio had the ideology to turn humans into vampires and thus slaves, I think apart from Zero for reasons of revenge, she did it with her ex-lover in order to have him with her (she was supposed to eat him anyway).
The council now changing people, they all had that philosophy, so even though Kaname had won a war back then, when the council went corrupted, one can say that lost it again…
There is more to see but I think that up to now all these points must connect somehow to light Kaname’s actions and give us a better understanding of the vampire history.

nina wrote:I think that maybe we have another clue in chapter 72 about Kaname’s plan and what he is doing …

But first of all I think we have the confirmation that Kaname was the first King after all … the phrase on the cover "The King who cast aside the world he could see from the throne..." puts Kaname in that position … Now if was he, who also stepped down from his throne and established the senate; I don’t know …

Now since his plan is the original one he had as an ancestor/King we can assume that he is finishing the unfinished job … but what he was doing back then?

We know he “declared” the war against the PBs ancestors who were creating slaves massively. The creation of the anti-vampire weapons and the hunters was a declaration of war lol. So the opponents in that war should be …

a) Kaname as a leader of the ancestors who were against the idea of turning humans into vampires, plus the hunters, plus maybe humans; << for the later I’m not sure cuz their contribution in such war could be limited if not zero …

vs

b) The ancestors-PBs plus their slaves, ex-humans vampires … Now I’m speculate that these ancestors could be the so called “protectors of the PBs” since they wanted to maintain the power to turn the humans into vampires/slaves and also cuz their opponents were killing off PBs.

I’m basing my theory of who were the opponents on hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-18/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

… “more than half of our race has chosen the ideology of turning the entire human population … into submissive slaves” <<< so the majority of the ancestors were against Kaname but I suppose some of them were by his side.

So my idea is that Kaname is wiping off his opponents from back then aka the remaining ancestors (?).

Clues for that ^^^.

1. First of all hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-20/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“… the only way to stop the multiplication of ex-humans being turned is to cut the problem down at the root” … what was the root? I suppose one root could be the ancestors …

agree with everything you said above.. this all ties up to the present.

2. Hanadagi’s servant’s words … “the Hanadagi family … the protectors of the PBs” << could be this is an indication of the “side” which Hanadagi belonged? I think it is … also Hanadagi was an ancestor and the head of his clan, so it is plausible Kaname and Hanadagi to were old acquaintances or better old enemies from the first war …

juliet wrote:"Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.

I second this. If kaname has currently killed two pureblood families Hio and Hanadagi, with one of them claiming to be a family that is the "protector of pbs" then he definitely started off right by killing off the guardian of pbs. But pbs of what? It would make more sense if it said, "protector of the Kurans" right since they established stuff, but it said protector of the purebloods perhaps this is another faction that in a way will possibly oppose kaname's objectives in the future (which is to eliminate pureblood heads) so his first kill was the guardian. well, in theory anyway.

*Previously in this forum it was also discussed about the existence of factions in vampire society such as the pro-Kuran and anti-kurans
pros- aido's and another noble family i forgot
anti- shiki and ichijou

so its also possible there are those who oppose kuran rule in the past.... perhaps this is connected to those deemed as "protector of the pbs"? does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going... because he started with the protector of the pbs... next was hio.. if you just look at motive Kaname has motive to kill off Hio because of what their daughter's plans to kill him... perhaps his killing is also tinted with revenge? i think no... kaname's goal doesnt seem to be marred by personal reasons. So my theory is that Hio is connected with council dealings.
Remember that the senate locked Shizuka up and constantly feed her with regular humans, but they havent revealed to have done the same towards other purebloods? why so? That was before Rido intervened with her exhuman lover right, so the decision to lock shizuka was senate related and hio-related. is it because Shizuka's family consented to her being used by the council? (she was being used by the council.. i will find that page later i hope i remember lol anyway) If her family consented to her getting locked up, after all who'd want their daughter to be freely used under supposedly legit reasons, then their family Hio is guilty of corruption because of its collaboration with the senate's ways. So Kaname has right to kill the head..just what he did with the council. i think his wiping out the council was the beginning step of his plans. the entry phase.

as for Hanadagi's death.. yes one reason could be his family was the "protector of purebloods"... again i have to wonder if this has anything to do with the past, or his family once protected the ancestor purebloods who were kaname's enemies. Also another reason that can hint is hanadagi's knowledge of sara. he seems to be acquaintances with her. hm.

EDIT: as for Hanadagi being the first kill, Im starting to be more open to the possibility that Kaname is using Sara's plans to get started, he probably knew that Sara was going after Hanadagi, whose castle needed ouri power to be unlocked so Kaname used this to his advantage and let Sara weaken hanadagi. Then when his heart was gone he killed him. Then Aido dono (still dont know why T_T) as to why he's "allowing" sara to run free i think he does this on purpose, with the clue given in the heading "the king who abandoned his throne" etc it gives the feeling that kaname doesn't care about vampire society anymore, so why would he care what Sara's destruction does to vampire society? I also think he definitely has plans for her, only for now he lets her go, because her plans suits his... sara is in a way, part of his pawns. its a chess game after all.. well in theory

EDIT2: Shizuka...remember when her lover was killed off, and she escaped.. she didn't go back to her family who were still alive as we've seen? Also when Ichiru and her escaped after killing the Kiryuus, it was said they went into hiding.. (lol if you want to know where i can look or i will post the link later) The point is that Shizuka did not consider hiding in the Hio's. her own family. The question is WHY? Before I thought she was the only Hio remaining because of her lack of mention to them, but they were alive and she never went there? Again.. why? I get the feeling that her family sold her to the Senate and abandoned her to be imprisoned like that... So Shizuka always felt lonely and wanted to die. So this gives another more reason for Kaname to kill off the Hio head. Remember Kaname also promised not to make her death in vain, by killing off the one responsible... I think he had fulfilled her promise

juliet wrote:
Also the war might have ended because the mean purebloods retreated and went into slumber. This is also possible that Kaname did not finish them then, so they survived with their clans up to this days…featuring the same ideology.
Another point that supports here your theory is kaname’s latest attack to Hio’s.
The council now changing people, they all had that philosophy, so even though Kaname had won a war back then, when the council went corrupted, one can say that lost it again…

it could be so... kaname mentioned something about purebloods back then being in large numbers but because of the war and time i guess their number grew scarce. will find that page later.
So I think its unavoidable that some purebloods must die in the war.. and the ones who remained.. well so far in vampire knight they have stayed quiet right, during the phase of the school arc, so the dangerous puerbloods back then probably perished but what remained is that corruptive power-thinking that led Rido to corrupt the council and such. i also think there's another dangerous pb out there that didnt die and whose philosophy to command and conquer grew more solid through the years... lol passage of time changes people and its been 10,ooo years since then

I second this. If kaname has currently killed two pureblood families Hio and Hanadagi, with one of them claiming to be a family that is the "protector of pbs" then he definitely started off right by killing off the guardian of pbs. But pbs of what? It would make more sense if it said, "protector of the Kurans" right since they established stuff, but it said protector of the purebloods perhaps this is another faction that in a way will possibly oppose kaname's objectives in the future (which is to eliminate pureblood heads) so his first kill was the guardian. well, in theory anyway.

Right solace, this is the theory, anyway as you say... (but I do not think that is impossible to be also totally true and Kaname trying to eliminate possible dangers that would come from the protector of purebloods that more likely would oppose to his plan since the guardian, would defend the superiority of the purebloods)…that’s what I think.

does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going...

Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…
I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

Spoiler:

About the Hio Clan…so that you do not have to go pages (I never find these pages from so long ago)…

From the fanbook quick points about Shizuka’s parents;

The Hio family has a history of members going bersek, so she was brought up in a cage. She was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. Shizula grew up without love…

So we see that Shizuka’s familly was not angelic, no way. In fact it was considered dangerous (totally bersek, yet the parents give the baby? while they are free as we see now?).

Anyway, since she was locked in confinement right after being born, I tend to think that her parents of course were collaborating with the council and their practices and agreed with them. (Because apparently except for Kurans that DID not wish to hurt the weakest ones, all other purebloods would not consent with the council if not agreeing).

[quote]well so far in vampire knight they have stayed quiet right, during the phase of the school arc, so the dangerous puerbloods back then probably perished but what remained is that corruptive power-thinking that led Rido to corrupt the council and such. i also think there's another dangerous pb out there that didnt die and whose philosophy to command and conquer grew more solid through the years... [quote]

Yes, it’s logical, if you just think of it, Kaname had said that the council will be the first ones to go but also that he shall finish what he had started once but stopped back then because he hesitated.
So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

Sara’s plan perhaps is not that irrelevant to Kaname’s plan and to really fit the plot, it should not be…
Sara aims at being the Queen, aims at having humans as slaves. That means that in a way she represents the council’s ideals (that was also one reason why she elaborated with the council) BUT if other threats from the past have survived (because Kaname in the past hesitated to finish them-limiting its action to his ruling as king) then Sara can awaken them, unite them or summon them and take them as her allies because 10.000 after She takes the risk to create slaves again.
So Kaname moves to kill her allies/the potential dangers first or even the descedants whose ideology would permit them to allign with Sara. Hio for example could be another case whereas as the council fitted their plans and they did not rebel against it, the same could happen now with Sara.
It’s an idea…

juliet wrote:
Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…
I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

Spoiler:

ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? was there any particular reason, aren't seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? what's inside the castle

and why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?? who is Ouri?? so many questions..

juliet wrote: About the Hio Clan…so that you do not have to go pages (I never find these pages from so long ago)…

From the fanbook quick points about Shizuka’s parents;

The Hio family has a history of members going bersek, so she was brought up in a cage. She was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. Shizula grew up without love…

So we see that Shizuka’s familly was not angelic, no way. In fact it was considered dangerous (totally bersek, yet the parents give the baby? while they are free as we see now?).

Anyway, since she was locked in confinement right after being born, I tend to think that her parents of course were collaborating with the council and their practices and agreed with them. (Because apparently except for Kurans that DID not wish to hurt the weakest ones, all other purebloods would not consent with the council if not agreeing).

myaaa thank you
i was about to go into it.. I think I remember now that Shizuka was called the madly blooming princess... lol, I totally missed that

shizuka doesn't seem insane though, she only went berserk when her exhuman lover was assassinated.

so the hio has history of members who go berserk... :bom: another theory could be that (and yes its another theory!!lol) kaname, just like with the Hanadagi being protector of pbs, killed the next one who can be a threat... who's the next one? touma? it seems all the purebloods we've known so far except isaya has history of malice.

juliet wrote:
Yes, it’s logical, if you just think of it, Kaname had said that the council will be the first ones to go but also that he shall finish what he had started once but stopped back then because he hesitated.
So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

it could be... we don't know what happened when he decided to sleep. was everything peaceful? could it be he couldn't handle what was going on presently so he slept it off? was everything prepared before he slept, meaning he was content to leave everyone before his eternal rest?

I think I understand Kaname's viewpoint here.. there are some things that recur over time even if its gone. For example is its in human's nature to destroy and create no matter if the evil ones die, others are born. Then it's also in pureblood's nature to dominate and destroy-something like that. I believe this is what Kaname says that "no matter what you do there are somethings you cant do anything about..." I think he was talking about vampire nature. He also said one time, "coexistence doesn't take place over night. vampires must overcome their nature first.." Here he also talks about nature.

I think its not that he didn't take care of something before he rested, its because he hesitated, his plan is probably to eliminate everyone (vampires) to put a stop to their cyclical nature to devour others in their schemes (for example). And of course a plan that grand will need lots of thought.. so he hesitated... He woke up and was faced with the same wicked nature he dealt with in the past.. I think it all just gradually build up to form his decision to accomplish his original plan.

here is what he said to yagari about killing the council
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-27.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-28.html

he said something about his actions safeguarding the future [for yuki]. It gives more and more confirmation that kaname's plans intend to make everyone start on a cleaner slate.
he is only eliminating the heads of the pb families from what it looks like... if you think about it, he doesn't eliminate all pbs right? he just cuts the command center, the one who leads the family so it ceases to function but he doesn't kill all.. (on the subject, does this mean Sara won't be killed since she's not the head of the family???? noo)

juliet wrote:
Sara aims at being the Queen, aims at having humans as slaves. That means that in a way she represents the council’s ideals (that was also one reason why she elaborated with the council) BUT if other threats from the past have survived (because Kaname in the past hesitated to finish them-limiting its action to his ruling as king) then Sara can awaken them, unite them or summon them and take them as her allies because 10.000 after She takes the risk to create slaves again.
So Kaname moves to kill her allies/the potential dangers first or even the descedants whose ideology would permit them to allign with Sara. Hio for example could be another case whereas as the council fitted their plans and they did not rebel against it, the same could happen now with Sara.
It’s an idea…

she said one time that she collaborates with the council so that she would be in good favor with them
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-12.html

Sara has been kissing asses for the whole time, like how she is doing with the hunters and Yuki but underneath it she has plans to prolong her existence and prevent from feeling suicidal like Ouri, Juri or Haruka. and that is to become queen.

i cant think of her trying for a more grander scheme such as the kidnappings of the toddlers it doesnt seem like something she'd do, she's just content playing with her harem, so I think the other disturbances were caused by another pureblood... perhaps the final boss in vk? the one who can truly stand up to kaname? because sara now is looking to be nothing more than a schemer... and kaname is not too threatened by her. he almost seems relax, an "I've got this under control" manner of dealing with her, which from the way it looks that way, he probably already read her motives and has plans for it... But this other pb.. i wonder.?

about the seal, pb's blood is sought after and you have a entire family of pb's sleeping in that castle if I am not mistaken, just a possible reason for the seal.

juliet wrote: "Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.

About Hanadagi being an ancestor … I have no solid evidence only a reference by Cross …

http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-67-page-27.html

“ … Hanadagi’s family ancestral home…” so why Cross use the word ancestral? Even if he refers on his home still it could be a hint that Hanadagi was indeed an ancestor himself as the head of his clan no?

Now that I’m thinking about it maybe Cross gave us something bigger!
That castle could be the one which the hooded-woman was talking about???
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-19/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“the castle they’re making their slaves build for them” !!!!???

juliet wrote: I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

sweetsolace wrote: ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? was there any particular reason, aren't seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? what's inside the castle
and why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?? who is Ouri??

This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!
What you think???

sweetsolace wrote: Also another reason that can hint is hanadagi's knowledge of sara. he seems to be acquaintances with her. hm.

Sweet I think you are referring on this passage …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/25

Now the only way for Hanadagi to know Sara is Sara to be older than 100 years since Hanadagi is sleeping for the past 100 years. Is she so old??? And wants to join in school???

Haha it is possible … we can’t dismiss that, after all I remember Takuma’s sarcastic comments about her age lol.

However what if Hanadagi’s comments had other meaning??
He calls her weak, greedy little girl and he is also quite surprised that she managed to kill Ouri dono … What I mean is that if Hanadagi was an ancestor that could be an explanation for his superiority towards Sara since the powers of the ancestors are superior of the second, third generation of PBs … furthermore if Ouri dono was also an ancestor that could explain his surprise of how she killed him and concludes that probably she must be good at using deception otherwise she couldn’t accomplish to kill him.

Now I know that Hanadagi’s superior tone it could be originate from the age difference which translated into powers difference as well, but we have also Kaname’s plan which is directly related with the ancestors’ era. Plus all the history “lessons” we had about this era bla bla bla … in short the second arc focuses on the past (not only Kaname’s past but in general) so the existence of the ancestors it might be a bridge to connect the past with the present.

sweetsolace wrote: does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going...

juliet wrote: Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…

Totally agree with both of you!!!!

Furthermore the ideology of their clans is one element but is it enough to justify their extermination? I mean Kaname can’t kill them only based on a speculation that since they belong in a certain clan that makes them automatically his enemies! Except from the fact that such an act it would be totally out of character, since Kaname isn’t a villain and he isn’t gonna be one lol, another proof is his behavior towards Takuma for example! He trusted him and distinguish him from his grandfather … he didn’t judge him by his last name but by his personality … as an individual!!!! And let’s not forget that the origins can not ensure the development of each individual (<< this goes for both ways of course) … “bright” example is Rido’s case … he was the black sheep of the Kurans lol. Bottom line, Kaname doesn’t kill randomly and blindly neither for revenge or hate!

IMO Hanadagi, Hiou and maybe Ouri it’s possible to were ancestors and the first two of them (Hanadagi and Hiou) to were Kaname’s opponents at the first war lol. Ouri seemed more pacifist and he also attended at Kaname’s ball <<< where Kaname supposed would count his supporters and his enemies … so I don’t know about him.


Another possibility!

What if their connection lays on senate’s era? We also have some hints which could pinpoint at that period and while Kaname was in slumber.

They could be involved with the senate’s schemes at some point. This option doesn’t require for them to be ancestors necessarily and brings them closer to the present time.

Let’s see the clues …

> For Hiou we don’t know how many years was sleeping but Hanadagi was active before 100 years<< which automatically places him during the senate’s rule.

> As very well sweetsolace and juliet pointed out there is Shizuka’s case which is directly related with the senate’s plotting. She was imprisoned by the senate and also don’t forget she was Rido’s fiancée. This matchmaking was obviously for “political” reasons, since Shizuka wasn’t in love with Rido and he as we know was in love with Juuri. Furthermore Rido was used by the senate and vise versa. He was the one who changed the hunters list to achieve the extermination of Shizuka’s lover (if not something bigger that we don’t know yet) and that’s how a new bloody circle began. Behind of all this tragedies was the senate. So the Hiou’s most likely cooperated with the senate. Shizuka and partly Rido were the known victims of the senate’s rule.

> Also there are Kaname’s words while he was killing Shizuka …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2130-26/vampire-knight/chapter-20.html

“ I will surely destroy it … the one who ruined the destiny of the PBs” << probably he was meaning Rido and the senate (basing on the development of the plot) but there is another updated reference on that era …

> Aidou dono words … “something that happened before Shisuka went missing”

http://www.mangareader.net/104-57815-35/vampire-knight/chapter-65.html

… which means before Shizuka kill Zero’s family! Obviously he is referring on the senate’s era cuz Kaname witnessed/participated on that as a child I suppose.


Now to conclude … we have and a third option which could combine the above two theories…

Hanadagi could be an enemy from the ancestors’ era and either if he is himself an ancestor or not, as the head and the protector of that “significant” castle should be wiped off!
And Hiou if he isn’t an ancestor he could be related with the senate’s era and Aidou’s dono words! lol

Just thought I would throw this out there.
ancestral home = a place where the previous generations of your family lived (aka your ancesters).
FE I am german so germany is my ancestral home, you guys might be over thinking the matter lol

rumland wrote:Just thought I would throw this out there.
ancestral home = a place where the previous generations of your family lived (aka your ancesters).
FE I am german so germany is my ancestral home, you guys might be over thinking the matter lol

Very quickly got to go..yes but what if the previous generations were vampires? Purebloods? you know still living there?

Then it would still be your ancestral home, only now you will have a old creepy grandfather liveing there, every one has that 1 creepy g-dad.

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

Ah now you got a negative from me, LOL so you might not wonder who did it......in the sense that you are putting it, you do not want to me to go through the twins relationship with Zero visiting graveyards and speaking to his brother is this the man you want us to give our little girl? But i am not going into that since obviously since I read it I have to accept that point too...

I disagree with Zero's decision and ways (his hate or his negative attitude) but not with the script...here you don't like the script! or the story since it sounds so wrong.. So why are you reading it? to buzz others with how "wrong" it sounds?

Do not think that this is an agressive post towards you, it's an honest question; you don't like it, you judge fiction to sound wrong, do not spoil the fun and the entertaiment of the people who like it. Respect their own positive attitude and approach, is it so hard not to infest it with negativism and criticism that after all offers nothing but bad mood?

Ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? Was there any particular reason, aren' t seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? What' s inside the castle…

And why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?

Perphas because Ouri had sealed it?
Ouri’s power unlocked the castle’s seal for Sara. Sara being a younger vampire did not posses that power as it is evident, yet that means that Ouri and Hanadagi are both from the older generation with higher superior powers, the seal proves it.

about the seal, pb's blood is sought after and you have a entire family of pb's sleeping in that castle if I am not mistaken, just a possible reason for the seal.

But where is his family? It is possible to be still in slumber and not to be referred? I have the impression that Hanadagi is alone in there.

I think its not that he didn't take care of something before he rested, its because he hesitated, his plan is probably to eliminate everyone (vampires) to put a stop to their cyclical nature to devour others in their schemes (for example). And of course a plan that grand will need lots of thought.. so he hesitated... He woke up and was faced with the same wicked nature he dealt with in the past.. I think it all just gradually build up to form his decision to accomplish his original plan.

Yes I second that, exactly my thoughts. He hesitated to eliminate or to cut the problem to its root as the ancestor lady had said due to his own more soft nature. When he entered slumber he had left the world at the hands of his descendants, bearing a little hope (as Rido says) as he was sleeping in that coffin that the world around him and the vicious vampire nature would be changed. (I think that’s what he waited resting in that coffin).

But again his hopes are shattered the moment he has to give up Yuuki and the family that truly raised Kaname as a true son and gave him the love that he never had in the past. I believe that now Kaname does not want to see any more victims losing their lives as they wait for the long –term peace. So his action to eliminate the dangers from the roots, gets again into action, especially from the moment that he realizes that Yuuki also won’t deny her pacifism legacy and will actively try to participate thus risk to lose her life, getting caught in the purebloods games.

I think his plan is twofold; one to eliminate the real dangers of the past and the present and to promote Yuuki’s role in a position that will make her a worthy leader of the vampire society since she is the one that can lead without basing her position in fear but in bonds of friendship and respect due to her soft nature.

if you think about it, he doesn't eliminate all pbs right? he just cuts the command center, the one who leads the family so it ceases to function but he doesn't kill all.. (on the subject, does this mean Sara won't be killed since she's not the head of the family???? noo)

For now yes, he is taking down to Heads. So the clues until now show that he addresses his plans to the older and more powerful members of the vampire society.

i cant think of her trying for a more grander scheme such as the kidnappings of the toddlers it doesnt seem like something she'd do, she's just content playing with her harem, so I think the other disturbances were caused by another pureblood... perhaps the final boss in vk? the one who can truly stand up to kaname? because sara now is looking to be nothing more than a schemer... and kaname is not too threatened by her. he almost seems relax, an "I've got this under control" manner of dealing with her, which from the way it looks that way, he probably already read her motives and has plans for it... But this other pb.. i wonder.?

I wonder too but under the circumstances there is not a clan we have not met;
-Hanadagi (dead)
-Hio (dead?)
-Touma (blown away? He was that old it seems)
-Isaya ( do not remember the other name, alive and possible an ally since Yori protected his area when he was sleeping)
-Ouri (possible ally since he appeared in the ball supporting the pacifism but dead)
Who am I forgetting?

“This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!

Ou..:cheers:Nina, that’s a good one… there are very strong references to that castle…and it is highlighted all through the latest chapters…and also in irrelevant pages that we have shown. It could be the ancient castle of the first era when the evil started and the slaves were marching towards it. We never saw the face of the pureblood who had gathered all these slaves. I am really wondering about the title “Protector of the Purebloods”. What if this title is coming from that era?
When the purebloods needed to be protected from the hunters= protected the pureblood’s existence / Kaname’s –human’s opponent…the title can be Hanadagi’s clan type of legacy like pacifism is for the Kurans.

Of course there is the question how and why Hanadagi’s clan managed to escape the Kuran’s scythe if their sins were so heavy? I guess they could have retreated, locked up in their castle and refrain from everything. And the Kurans could have let it be as kaname was hesitating to go all the way.

He calls her weak, greedy little girl and he is also quite surprised that she managed to kill Ouri dono … What I mean is that if Hanadagi was an ancestor that could be an explanation for his superiority towards Sara since the powers of the ancestors are superior of the second, third generation of PBs … furthermore if Ouri dono was also an ancestor that could explain his surprise of how she killed him and concludes that probably she must be good at using deception otherwise she couldn’t accomplish to kill him.

M..Ouri was killed because a part of him had gotten tired and in a way allowed to Sara to put an end to his long living. Ouri was definitely old and I do expect Hanadagi also since Sara has the same idea for Hanadagi that she had for Ouri “you are probably bored” she had said entering his tomb.

And let’s not forget that the origins can not ensure the development of each individual (<< this goes for both ways of course) … “bright” example is Rido’s case … he was the black sheep of the Kurans lol. Bottom line, Kaname doesn’t kill randomly and blindly neither for revenge or hate!

I agree but there seems to be a kind of a common ideology and scopes shared among family members; Hio’s are going bersek, Kurans fight for co-existence…we are starting to see some kind of patters there. No that does not justify a killing, it’s just an observation…

IMO Hanadagi, Hiou and maybe Ouri it’s possible to were ancestors and the first two of them (Hanadagi and Hiou) to were Kaname’s opponents at the first war lol. Ouri seemed more pacifist and he also attended at Kaname’s ball <<< where Kaname supposed would count his supporters and his enemies … so I don’t know about him.

Not just the first…they were fighting over centuries..so yes apparently this fight is everlasting and ongoing…now it has changed a bit; instead to be an open war, we see more politics and schemes getting in the way, instead of marching hypnotized slaves and open fires… I still get the feeling that Hanadagi’s is from the first era (quite close to the period that Kaname decided to enter the slumber), Hio could be a far more recent wound with their own tolerance in forgiving the council’s way…

Hanadagi could be an enemy from the ancestors’ era and either if he is himself an ancestor or not, as the head and the protector of that “significant” castle should be wiped off!
And Hiou if he isn’t an ancestor he could be related with the senate’s era and Aidou’s dono words! lol

Very good work Nina, you are so observant and I do believe the same. For the time being I think we have covered many aspects of the script and the possible versions. Now want more!!

juliet wrote:
I wonder too but under the circumstances there is not a clan we have not met;
-Hanadagi (dead)
-Hio (dead?)
-Touma (blown away? He was that old it seems)
-Isaya ( do not remember the other name, alive and possible an ally since Yori protected his area when he was sleeping)
-Ouri (possible ally since he appeared in the ball supporting the pacifism but dead)
Who am I forgetting?

you forgot Shirabuki! (haha... she is hated this much.. poor girl)

here's the clue to number of remaining purebloods, the ones that yuki know anyway
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-28.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-29.html

the ones under the council's control were 19. but kaname said if the inactive sleeping ones were included the number would reach 33. Perhaps he's talking of the number of all purebloods existing, instead of number of clans (33 clans sounds too many).

So... since the council was destroyed, then not only level E's were loose?? but also these 19 purebloods??? now... there's your possible culprit for the sudden rise in crime rate... possibly, quite possibly, somewhere in these 19 purebloods, 2 of which are dead (Rido, Shizuka) its quite high chance they're out taking advantage of their freedom... perhaps one of them is responsible for the toddler kidnappings?

speaking of purebloods and clans, Kaname also says there that there are less [clans] now than there was back then... since pbs cant easily die (except if they want to) then they must've died back during the war, during kaname's reign, hence the decrease in pureblood clans...remember juliet you were saying Kaname could've allowed the bad ones to run free when he slept, however i dont think so, the purebloods left were placed in control of the senate (who did this, and when, i dont know.) but they're probably the problematic ones...and the ones who remained uninvolved were left alone.

nina wrote: “This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!

well hanadagi was not the only pb who has a castle , Touma has too and perhaps also Hio, Shirabuki and Isaya (though its more like a mansion in his case).

that said im curious about the castle that the slaves were building in the past... perhaps thats what became kaname's castle? there must be something that happened to it after the war...

but here anyway says that after the war, the survivors went to create families
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-64-page-26.html

i dont get how the pbs existence can be erased from history though....maybe vampires decided to hide themselves from mankind from that time onwards, and that's what started the legend and division of VK world from outside human world who knew nothing of vampires? they separated themselves and create families... the ancestor hunters did the same and went living on their own, as they can't have been of use during the monarchy that much since they came to service after monarchy when senate was created and they had to collaborate with them

I agree but there seems to be a kind of a common ideology and scopes shared among family members; Hio’s are going bersek, Kurans fight for co-existence…we are starting to see some kind of patters there. No that does not justify a killing, it’s just an observation…

yes also add
Hanadagi- protector of pbs who seals their castle
Touma- ageless brats looking like lolita, easily pissed
Hio- berserker family, possibly has asian influences due to clothing styles and manner
Shirabuki- drama actors possibly has western influences due to Sara's name
Shoutou- the neutral ones
Ouri- charity workers, generous to the point of giving a life for a fiancee

a title for everyone~

There are 7 pureblood vampire families remaining at the present in V. K . ( The same as noble families with royal rights at Meru Puri. )

They are :

1- Kuran ( the one Yuuki and Kaname are part )

2 - Shirabuki ( Sara's )

3- Shouto ( Isaya )

4 - Hio ( Shizuka )

5 - Ouri ( Sara's fiancee )

6 - Hanadagi ( the one with a castle with a barrier )

7 - Touma ( kid mad hatter one )

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

Kaname told Yuuki when she was born , there were 33 pureblood vampires alive . ( 34 in total if Yuuki was included ) . Nineteen ( 19 ) were under Senate vigilance . The rest ( 15 if Yuuki included ) don't . Probable most of the above were in a slumber . We know during that time Haruka , Juuri , Kaname and Yuuki weren't involved with the Senate . Kaname passed to being a Vampire Senate ward after Haruka and Juuri died .

How many pureblood vampire remains ?

From a total of 34 pureblood vampires ( including Yuuki ) that existed when Yuuki was born . These had died :

1- Haruka Kuran ( Killed by Rido . )

2 - Juuri Kuran ( Self - killed for the spell to make Yuuki human .

3- Shizuka Hio ( Killed by Kaname. With a little help from Zero . )

4 - Ouri ( Killed by Sara . )

5 - Hanadagi ( Killed by Kaname . )

6 - Hio's family head ( Killed by Kaname . )

7- Rido Kuran ( Killed by Zero and Yuuki . This one could be considered alive . But no physical body for now . As he is bound with Kaname . )

So we have 34 - 7 = 27 vampire purebloods alive . ( 28 if counting Rido as alive. )

We have see for now 12 ( maybe 13 if the girl in shadows beside Touma is his sister ) of all 34 purebloods who were alive at the moment Yuuki was born .

We have see :

1- 5 Kurans ( Haruka , Juuri , Rido , Kaname and Yuuki)

2- 2 Hios ( Shizuka and Hio's head of family )

3 - 1 Ouri

4 - 1 Hanadagi

5 - 1 Shirabiki ( Sara )

6 - 1 Shouto ( Isaya )

7 - 1 Touma ( 2 if the shadow girl is a Touma also )

Total 12 ( 13 if the Touma girl is included )

During the past . Prior to the pureblood vampire war . Pureblood numbers probably were over the thousand . Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves . To keep the pureblood numbers small .

Imagine if there are 1000 purebloods alive . If only half drank ( and turned ) a human per week . During a year ( 52 x 500 ) = 26,000 humans became vampire . If 100 years passed , at least 2,600,000 humans are turned vampire . This is only a conservative number . Humans have to notice their diminishing numbers . Specially in a time as before the pureblood war ( 10,000 years ago in V. K. ) . When a natural catastrophe ( climate change ) make humankind to almost extintion . This implies human population was smaller than the present one .

A more extreme scenario : 1000 purebloods drink and turn human / killed one human per day . In a year , 1000 x 356 = 356,000 humans became vampires / died . In a ten year interval 10 x 365,000 = 3,650,000 humans became vampires / died . In a 100 year interval 100 x 365,000 = 36,500,000 humans died / became vampires . One thousand pureblood vampires could almost extinguish the human population of 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in less than 500 years interval .

I imagine vampire population ( all Levels ) is supposed to be keep small . Probably no more than a few thousand . Maybe no more that a hundred thousand in total . Most vampires don't kill humans for food nor play with them . Only drink some blood . Leave the human alive ; but a little anemic . But a huge vampire population would make some logistic problems . To hide their existance to the general human public . Vampire hunters appears to be relative few in quantity . Maybe some thousand . Probably around 10,000 .

juliet wrote:

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

Ah now you got a negative from me, LOL so you might not wonder who did it......in the sense that you are putting it, you do not want to me to go through the twins relationship with Zero visiting graveyards and speaking to his brother is this the man you want us to give our little girl? But i am not going into that since obviously since I read it I have to accept that point too...

I disagree with Zero's decision and ways (his hate or his negative attitude) but not with the script...here you don't like the script! or the story since it sounds so wrong.. So why are you reading it? to buzz others with how "wrong" it sounds?

Do not think that this is an agressive post towards you, it's an honest question; you don't like it, you judge fiction to sound wrong, do not spoil the fun and the entertaiment of the people who like it. Respect their own positive attitude and approach, is it so hard not to infest it with negativism and criticism that after all offers nothing but bad mood?

Indeed, Party Pooper.

However, it is interesting to hear viewpoints form people who actually do not really like the story,. (yet they keep on reading it so something must be interesting) (probably drooling over Kaname and Zero ;) )

mariangie wrote:There are 7 pureblood vampire families remaining at the present in V. K . ( The same as noble families with royal rights at Meru Puri. )

They are :

1- Kuran ( the one Yuuki and Kaname are part )

2 - Shirabuki ( Sara's )

3- Shouto ( Isaya )

4 - Hio ( Shizuka )

5 - Ouri ( Sara's fiancee )

6 - Hanadagi ( the one with a castle with a barrier )

7 - Touma ( kid mad hatter one )

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

Kaname told Yuuki when she was born , there were 33 pureblood vampires alive . ( 34 in total if Yuuki was included ) . Nineteen ( 19 ) were under Senate vigilance . The rest ( 15 if Yuuki included ) don't . Probable most of the above were in a slumber . We know during that time Haruka , Juuri , Kaname and Yuuki weren't involved with the Senate . Kaname passed to being a Vampire Senate ward after Haruka and Juuri died .

How many pureblood vampire remains ?

From a total of 34 pureblood vampires ( including Yuuki ) that existed when Yuuki was born . These had died :

1- Haruka Kuran ( Killed by Rido . )

2 - Juuri Kuran ( Self - killed for the spell to make Yuuki human .

3- Shizuka Hio ( Killed by Kaname. With a little help from Zero . )

4 - Ouri ( Killed by Sara . )

5 - Hanadagi ( Killed by Kaname . )

6 - Hio's family head ( Killed by Kaname . )

7- Rido Kuran ( Killed by Zero and Yuuki . This one could be considered alive . But no physical body for now . As he is bound with Kaname . )

So we have 34 - 7 = 27 vampire purebloods alive . ( 28 if counting Rido as alive. )

We have see for now 12 ( maybe 13 if the girl in shadows beside Touma is his sister ) of all 34 purebloods who were alive at the moment Yuuki was born .

We have see :

1- 5 Kurans ( Haruka , Juuri , Rido , Kaname and Yuuki)

2- 2 Hios ( Shizuka and Hio's head of family )

3 - 1 Ouri

4 - 1 Hanadagi

5 - 1 Shirabiki ( Sara )

6 - 1 Shouto ( Isaya )

7 - 1 Touma ( 2 if the shadow girl is a Touma also )

Total 12 ( 13 if the Touma girl is included )

During the past . Prior to the pureblood vampire war . Pureblood numbers probably were over the thousand . Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves . To keep the pureblood numbers small .

Imagine if there are 1000 purebloods alive . If only half drank ( and turned ) a human per week . During a year ( 52 x 500 ) = 26,000 humans became vampire . If 100 years passed , at least 2,600,000 humans are turned vampire . This is only a conservative number . Humans have to notice their diminishing numbers . Specially in a time as before the pureblood war ( 10,000 years ago in V. K. ) . When a natural catastrophe ( climate change ) make humankind to almost extintion . This implies human population was smaller than the present one .

A more extreme scenario : 1000 purebloods drink and turn human / killed one human per day . In a year , 1000 x 356 = 356,000 humans became vampires / died . In a ten year interval 10 x 365,000 = 3,650,000 humans became vampires / died . In a 100 year interval 100 x 365,000 = 36,500,000 humans died / became vampires . One thousand pureblood vampires could almost extinguish the human population of 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in less than 500 years interval .

I imagine vampire population ( all Levels ) is supposed to be keep small . Probably no more than a few thousand . Maybe no more that a hundred thousand in total . Most vampires don't kill humans for food nor play with them . Only drink some blood . Leave the human alive ; but a little anemic . But a huge vampire population would make some logistic problems . To hide their existance to the general human public . Vampire hunters appears to be relative few in quantity . Maybe some thousand . Probably around 10,000 .

Cute numbers, although I do not really think we should get stuck on the numbers for this story, Hino never seems to focus on anything but strategy, romace, and tragedy eh?
So,..
There might be more PB, there might even be Less, we do not really know, did they every say even, that in those families there is only 1 pb left alive? Like, did they really say it, or did they only hint it ;) hihi*

Go Vampire Society

mariangie wrote:T

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

It's very interesting what you wrote here. I always thought the name is getting from kurai-it means dark. It fits to him, even if it is not so good for Yuuki and Yuri. So it can be, Hino wants that is sounds similar

sweetsolace wrote: well hanadagi was not the only pb who has a castle , Touma has too and perhaps also Hio, Shirabuki and Isaya (though its more like a mansion in his case).

that said im curious about the castle that the slaves were building in the past... perhaps thats what became kaname's castle? there must be something that happened to it after the war...

Yes of course you’re right … all of them having from a humble mansion … poor guys living in poverty hahaha.

However Hanadagi’s castle was the only one which is spotlighted in many scenes, even in panels where there wasn’t a specific reference to Hanadagi or his clan, or his castle … and as juliet said …

juliet wrote: there are very strong references to that castle…and it is highlighted all through the latest chapters…and also in irrelevant pages that we have shown. It could be the ancient castle of the first era when the evil started and the slaves were marching towards it. We never saw the face of the pureblood who had gathered all these slaves. I am really wondering about the title “Protector of the Purebloods”. What if this title is coming from that era?
When the purebloods needed to be protected from the hunters= protected the pureblood’s existence / Kaname’s –human’s opponent…the title can be Hanadagi’s clan type of legacy like pacifism is for the Kurans.

… and in my opinion the reference of the hooded-lady in that ancient castle was a bit out of the blue … I mean what purpose was serving?

… the face of that PB huh? I thought about it too … the opponents of Kaname didn’t have a leader as well? And with that thought in mind … maybe we have only his back … ???

http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-31/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html

… about his title “the protector of the PBs” … that was my point >>> he protected the PBs from the ones who fought them aka the hunters+ Kaname!

Now I know is a far fetched theory to be Hanadagi’s castle the one which was built from the slaves but either way I think that this castle is important … I searched for the displays of that castle …

> First introduction …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-18/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… the sleeping castle deep in the gorge …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-19/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… except from the fact that this castle has also a name (which I know it could be had named in that way cuz it’s owner is sleeping there lol), Ruka also commenting about the location and we also have a panoramic view … All in all Hino seems like she emphasizes on this castle …

> Then again when Yuuki see through Kaname’s blood his great grief …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… it’s a bit irrelevant with the content … so could have anything to do with Kaname’s despair or loss???

> Another one …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-32/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html

… “there is something dark lurking under the death of Ouri sama” >> now we know how Ouri’s murder connected with Hanadagi’s castle (which is also displayed in the bottom panel again) and what was probably behind Yuuki’s words “dark lurking”, but why such a “protection” for a “plain” castle if it has no special importance as a building or if the owner was just a “plain” PB?

> The icy shield …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/18

> And another one reference on the name of the castle by Sara … the “castle of dreams” … http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/20

Also Hanadagi’s castle has a domical part, like a tower on the frontage whereas Kurans mansion has a different architectural design …

here the frontage of the Kurans mansion …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-22/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html

… and here the exterior of the building that Kaname is right now …




… the scan isn’t very clear but still it doesn’t seem like the exterior of the Kurans mansion … there is an upper part like a tower and if it is a side aspect of the building and not the frontage, it resembles with Hanadagi’s castle if we look at it from the side …






However the landscape is quite different … so I can’t be sure … (???)

Bottom line is that Hino has used many panels to display a “plain” castle and is a bit odd if the owner of the castle was just a plain PB who his extermination was so “easy” and with not much importance/implications … in short I think we might see more about Hanadagi’s role in the history and maybe his castle …

you forgot Shirabuki! (haha... she is hated this much.. poor girl)

here's the clue to number of remaining purebloods, the ones that yuki know anyway
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-28.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-29.html

Haha, she is dead already that’s why…who is she again? thanks for the pages…
19 before the birth of Yuuki, 33 with the ones that were away (can he mean in slumber?)

speaking of purebloods and clans, Kaname also says there that there are less [clans] now than there was back then... since pbs cant easily die (except if they want to) then they must've died back during the war, during kaname's reign, hence the decrease in pureblood clans...
remember juliet you were saying Kaname could've allowed the bad ones to run free when he slept, however i dont think so, the purebloods left were placed in control of the senate (who did this, and when, i dont know.) but they're probably the problematic ones...and the ones who remained uninvolved were left alone.

No, I did not say that, if it sounded that way, my bad..what I meant is that back them obviously Kaname went in slumber hesitating to give a final end to the existence of the ones that he should have.
Eitherwise, it’s obvious he would not have to go on with his plan now…
Why he did not moved on?
He hesitated because they retreated or they surrendered or promised to change to avoid certain death…

So he believes that he has limited the problem and goes to slumber leaving either his descendants or the council in charge…that’s what I meant or I want to believe, but the ways of the vampires have not change thousands of years later, neither their ambitions to turn humans into slaves seeing them as food (Asato, Sara). Now imagine Kaname’s disappointment all over nothing…
At least that’s what I believe that happened.

Now since Kaname had been in slumber apparently the amount the purebloods must have been decreased either by the Kurans or by the hunters which makes me want to ask;
What happened to the grandfather or Yuuri’s father? And their mates of course. Kurans are the only ones with the anti-vampire power. So they cannot be just eliminated in the same way they can eliminate other purebloods who may turn against them. This part is also vague right now.

Ouri- charity workers, generous to the point of giving a life for a fiancee…

Haha….that Ouri was more than charity worker he was a stupidity sample walking at balls- letting Sara to kill him- that would be for good? What was he thinking? LOL

@Maria wonderful post. So there are still many purebloods out here left to see, if Hino wants to use them, of course she can and one of them (from any clan) can be behind the kidnapping of children.

Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves .To keep the pureblood numbers small .

This is another version as the clans spared could have resorted into some kind of retreat or agreement (if they were against Kaname at the past). Is it possible though that the agreements were not kept? So, back to zero.

@Νina, I just love your posts because it sums up all the pages where we have a straight reference to Hanadagi’s castle…and especially in and between scenes that the castle is not supposed to be relevant…
I just add it in spoiler for a faster glance...

Spoiler:

A sense of loss?

So why is this castle important and pictured multiple times and out of logical context? The castle is it supposed to be connected with an evil lurking?
Notice then how it is twice shown in relation to Kuran’s discussion about the past (mainly)…one with Kaname grieving and Yuuki asking "How it is possible that you are mine" the action in the castle interfears and one where Kaname says that these were in the past...and we are shown Hanadagi's castle again..without a continuation...the next page shows just the hunters...

Spoiler:

Why was this all about, for a scene where Sara takes Hanadagi’s heart?

Many panels and anticipation wasted over nothing.

Yet with Ouri, when his death becomes even more important since he became the reason that pushed Yuuki to take Artemis and declare her intentions, the vampire was not even introduced to us before. his first and last scene at the ball (in a flashback).

Very strange…

@ About the castle and the lava that's coming; Nina it does seem quite familiar the exterior outline specially since the middle part with the columns is higher and all the building has that square geometry ( I think). It can not be Hio’s as Hio’s were reported to have a mausoleum and Kaname was seen to exit from there, so it can be possible if seen from a different angle. From Kaname’s window though the trees are quite close. But could the difference be due to the lava that has divided the land in two and melts, flats things around? can't be sure.

If this is not Hanadagi's, does that mean that Kaname could have moved (apart from the Hio's that we saw last chapter) on with a new pureblood?

juliet wrote:Haha, she is dead already that’s why…who is she again?

well her family still alive what if she has sisters!?

juliet wrote:No, I did not say that, if it sounded that way, my bad..what I meant is that back them obviously Kaname went in slumber hesitating to give a final end to the existence of the ones that he should have.

you said this a page back:

juliet wrote:So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

that was in response to it.

juliet wrote:Haha….that Ouri was more than charity worker he was a stupidity sample walking at balls- letting Sara to kill him- that would be for good? What was he thinking? LOL

well Ouri also wanted to die as he didn't hesitate when he was about to be killed... although his generosity may come from being a charity worker. I think it was deliberate

juliet wrote:So why is this castle important and pictured multiple times and out of logical context? The castle is it supposed to be connected with an evil lurking?

come now... the castle was depicted twice, thrice? lol... IMO, doesn't make it so relevant... except for the seal spell. lol Kuran mansion was also depicted in the same manner

juliet wrote:Notice then how it is twice shown in relation to Kuran’s discussion about the past (mainly)…one with Kaname grieving and Yuuki asking "How it is possible that you are mine" the action in the castle interfears and one where Kaname says that these were in the past...and we are shown Hanadagi's castle again..without a continuation...the next page shows just the hunters...

it seems Hanadagi has something to do with his past, see when a flashback of the past appears its always connected with thoughts of despair or is related to it. this is the only thing im sure of for now..

nina wrote:However the landscape is quite different … so I can’t be sure … (???)

yes... I think it's different too... Hanadagi's castles sits under a place that looks like a ravine, with rock formations jutting around it. The mansion overlooks the ocean and the grounds around it is clear, its at the top of the hill. The Hanadagi place is at the bottom.

well her family still alive what if she has sisters!?

She should have thought about leaving them alone...


you said this a page back:

juliet wrote:So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

that was in response to it.

Yes, I got it that this confused you, thus I provided the explanation why I believe that Kaname did not move on completely erasing the threats of that time (they might retreated, agreed to behave or fall in slumber and promised to comply with the new rules).

I do not believe that Kaname would leave chaos or would abandon the role that this woman had left him with - but somewhere it is obvious that back then he hesitated to go all the way...and perhaps that's also a reason why he feels bad and apologizes to Yuuki here;

About the weakness and the so many mean vampires...

Spoiler:

sweetsolace wrote:come now... the castle was depicted twice, thrice? lol... IMO, doesn't make it so relevant... except for the seal spell. lol Kuran mansion was also depicted in the same manner

it seems Hanadagi has something to do with his past, see when a flashback of the past appears its always connected with thoughts of despair or is related to it. this is the only thing im sure of for now..

Hanadagi and the castle are one and the same; meaning it's not Hanadagi depicted there but the castle. What can be their significance or relevelance that bonds with the past I wonder...

Anyway we will see, I am thinking that Hanadagi's role can not be that limited...and since their is no future for him...Hino has also to explain the importance of his death along with his title "Protector of the purebloods"..

yes... I think it's different too... Hanadagi's castles sits under a place that looks like a ravine, with rock formations jutting around it. The mansion overlooks the ocean and the grounds around it is clear, its at the top of the hill. The Hanadagi place is at the bottom.

It's probably not Hanadagi's, but then whose is it?
If it was Hanadagi's that would mean completely change of the landscape...lol...

@ Juliet I took the liberty to quote here a passage from your post which was posted in another thread … https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t724p10-is-yuuki-kuran-a-pawn-in-sara-s-game#12149

My answer fits here better so … I hope you don’t mind

juliet wrote: The fact that sets all reels in action seems to be Hanadagi’s murder, then Kaname states it’s time to leave…he chooses that moment when Sara attacks the Hanadagi castle to set his plan in action > thus abandon his position in the leadership> leave that position for Yuuki that tries to stand up to the Hunter’s expectation and to the nobles doubt and to represent the Kuran’s legacy.

So it’s quite strange that Hanadagi’s murder leads to such an event…we are missing the lost dots there….

First of all we are missing, why Hanadagi!? And what Sara has gained from his heart, aside of the power which all of the PBs posses??? >>> cuz … was it, an easy target by being in slumber??? I don’t think so, since she got into an extra trouble to kill Ouri in order to be able to pass Hanadagi’s icy-shield. Also as we saw recently, there was at least one more PB in slumber … the head of the Hiou’s clan. Ergo it can’t be a random choice.
Furthermore, Kaname was monitoring Hanagagi’s castle, prior the ball where Sara killed Ouri.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-19/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

I mean that, Ouri’s murder, it could be an indication for Sara’s next move, cuz I guess if Sara knew about Hanadagi’s icy-shield and what she should do to break it, then I suppose Kaname would knew as well, and his murder would be given away Sara’s plan. Ergo, it would be more logical to monitor Hanadagi’s castle after Ouri’s murder … but no!
So how and why Kaname expected a move towards Hanadagi???? And again I come to the beginning … why Hanadagi? The only I could think of is Hanadagi’s special power/charisma as a PB. Kaname knew this info and figured out that Sara would aim for him??? Or he was monitoring him for his own reasons?

Another question which seems to have also the hunters as well … Why Kaname let Sara to proceed with her plan?
1. Kaname most likely had figured out, that Sara was behind Ouri’s murder but he didn’t do anything to expose her.
2. He knew that she was “naughty” by turning girls into “slaves”, but still he was sitting back and “waited”. Doing that, was raising suspicions towards himself. As a result were, the hunters suspecting him as Sara’s ally, and Aidou-dono questioning why he doesn’t stop Sara.

Seems like Sara’s doings served him up to a point … and I think that point was Hanadagi …

So I’m thinking … maybe Hanadagi was his original target (part of his original plan?) and he waited Sara to break that shield and then wiping him off. I’m guessing that the difficulty was to “trespass” the shield (>> Ouri’s power which now possessed by Sara) and not that he needed Sara to do the half job for him, viz take his heart out and weakening him. He could do it easily with his anti-vampire sword since Hanadagi was also in slumber.

Is that why he was letting Sara to move freely all along? Probably … if the gain was greater than the loss … he could afford to be a suspect and he could deal with Sara afterwards if he had to. After all as we saw he had to do another move meanwhile >> Hiou’s head.

So it could be that Sara’s attack to Hanadagi; set the reels in motion for his “original plan” as you said juliet???? I think it makes sense.

But if so, another question rises … why he let her to take the heart and he didn’t stepped in, right after the shield was destroyed? Could it be cuz in the long run Sara will expose her intentions more openly?
Also is likely that it was more important to process to the next target than deal with Sara at that moment? I don’t know … maybe we miss another piece of the puzzle here.

Furthermore I think that Sara wasn’t included into his original plan, cuz if this plan was a concept he had as an ancestor, but for an unknown reason chose the slumber rather to proceed with it … then he couldn’t have known Sara from back then, since Sara probably isn’t so old.

So her actions seem to be the turning point … the reason to stop hesitate anymore and proceed with his plan. The time was running out after Ouri’s murder. Is like a mirror of the 1st arc … he was expecting for Rido’s come back, but he was also hoping/wishing for the opposite…

When Seiren informed him for Rido’s awakening says … “I see … it would have been nice if he had slept on forever…”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2155-18/vampire-knight/chapter-29.html

@ Nina, as always you make good observations, its weird; why would Kaname wait for Hanadagi in order to go and fullfil his plan? that's a key point there that we are missing.

Why is Hanadagi's awakening of so much importancy that Kaname rushes out?

It's not Sara, Sara's intrusion wakes up Hanadagi...it's Hanadagi's awakening as a fact that in reality sets the reels in motion.

We do not know anything about Hanadagi, apart from the fact that he is considered the protector of purebloods and the fact that they did not wish to participate in the current politics of the vampire society.

Could he probably pose a danger for anyone? like Rido that you mentioned earlier... Until Hino decides to shed some light there we are out of the blue with Kaname's intentions other than the very obvious ones; to wipe out the remaining pureblood heads, the males specifically.

I am very down with Kaname's plan...he seems to risk it all to achieve what? the reformation of the vampire society?

Spoiler:

Now to get back to the part with Sara and Hanadagi's castle that we at least now.

I think that Kaname remained silent until Hanadagi's awakening. He suspected that Sara would break the seal and move on with her plan, after Sara had taken Ouri's powers. You are right that Kaname should have known about Ouri's special ability, here Sara knew it.

So he waits to see what will happen with that aspect, will she use the power to surpass the shield, if she did that, that means Hanadagi is awaken, it's time to get on with his plan. So when she breaks in, he must move, it's his call, his time. Why?

What drives me nuts here is the fact that Kaname instantly moves and kills Hanadagi. He waits for no introductions...if Sara took what she took and did what she did, I agree it's irrelevant, other than making a damage there and awakening Hanadagi, she has no other importancy.

very good nina. I didn't see that before. It all make sense now, Hanadagi's death is the turning point, the decisive factor where Kaname start to move.

chapter 52 - Kaname was already monitoring Hanadagi's castle thru Ruka and Kain in chapter 52. By that time, two things were confirmed: Hanadagi's guardian girl was still there and healthy, and there were no movements seen. This means Sara did not begin her move yet.

Kaname then organized the "Party" to introduce Yuki to the Vampire World and deliberately sent out an invite to Sara and Takuma... He knew Takuma was staying with Sara but didn't say anything. How did he know where Takuma lived?

*Kaname must have known that Sara kidnapped Takuma after his fight with ichijou and is now leeching information from him..
This means he knows Sara is up to something and is out to get him. This must be the reason why Kaname is strict on keeping Yuki inside the house, and not to let anyone in, as he still doesn't know what she could be planning.
And it seems like Kaname could have predicted that Ouri was prone to being killed by Sara, who has that personality, the latter only wanting an opportunity to do this. So Kaname probably set up the party to confirm this suspicion.. I'm guessing here.

Chapter 54- Kaname had allowed Sara free in chapter 54 when he suspected her of killing Ouri, note that he was already thinking she was up to something when he asked Seiren to watch over Ouri's room. So he was already thinking ahead here.
Perhaps by this time he already knew what she would do? That she will eventually grab an opportunity to take Ouri's power to access the castle? So if I were thinking in Kaname's mind, if I knew Sara planned to take Hanadagi I would let her do it first, then kill Hanadagi later. Again its like juliet said long ago, it seems Kaname and Sara's plans match, the difference is Kaname knew this and Sara doesn't... or does she?

chapter 57 Kaname then prepares Yuki for whats coming next. He knew Sara has begun to move by killing Ouri, so he leaves Artemis to Yuki.

chapter 58 Sara makes the next step in her plans and visits the all girls school to create her harem source. Someone anonymous informs the hunters, then Kaito and Zero were dispatched to the school right when Sara is leaving. But they couldnt do anything

chapter 60 Kaname is assaulted by his contradictions as Rido whispers in his ear.
Then he decides to tell Yuki his past.

chapter 65 Sara completes her harem set and proceeds to her next plan: the blood tablets. She visits the president of the pharmaceuticals... Later on, a hunter outside that pharmacy building suddenly knows what's going on and says to the messenger boy "go tell the association about this". Again, like juliet previously observed, how the hell did that hunter-san know what's happening inside that building?? and what did he order to tell the association about?? (to "keep quiet and pretend nothing's happening when sara comes over ok!! last time zero didn't catch her, so this time once she's inside we can trap her in the act! muaha" OK that was a laugh, but hey that makes sense right... why in the world are they QUIET about it? most of all KAIEN? you cant trust those who wear eyeglasses and he wears one !! LOL! ok but seriously...it fits)
and WHO is watching over Sara and informs the hunters every time she makes the next step on her plans?? right?? Kaname? orTakuma as his undercover agent?
So it seems that nothing goes unnoticed... because everytime she makes a new step it is informed in the association... but they're not doing anything...

Chapter 65 Kaname starts drinking glasses with blood tablets on them. later on he also drinks another glass. It seems like he is expecting something... and there's the bloodstained floor on Yuki's room.

Chapter 66 Kain and Ruka informs there was movement in the hanadagi castle. It was time to move. Kaname says his goodbye to Yuki, with promises to come back and do her wishes... he leaves the key to her.

Cahpter 67 Sara rips off Hanadagi's heart and disappears. Kaname sees that everything is going according to plan: Sara did the job for him, entered the castle and stole Hanadagi's heart.
Kaname steps in, taps Aido-dono's shoulder as if to say (I'll handle this, dont worry) and stabs Hanadagi. Then Aido-dono's death (which is mystery to me, still... hmm)

chapter 68 Yuki insists on going after Kaname then Kaien slaps some sense to her, not noting that Yuki just grew some wings on her back and hit his face with it. Nothing unusual, to be expected perhaps? He says he has to detain her... coincidence?

chapter 69 Kaien is vague in questioning her about Kaname, (note how his eyeglasses are shaded ) then says its her responsibility as Kuran to continue his works... Yuki then decides to form the NC

chapter 70 Yuki forms the NC under the watch of the association. Kaien specifically assigns Zero to be with her. Takuma receives an invite to be part of the NC and Sara decides to go too... was the invite a coincidence? who sent it, was it really Yuki? Sara would not know about the NC without that invitation
but since she was uninvited she went to beg for her invitation in the hunter's association..

chapter 71 the NC is created... Kaname kills the Hio head in the next part of his plan... Sara goes to the hunter's association (and who else greets her but Hunter-san--as if he was waiting for her) and then begs that Kaname will kill her next... she must have known the rumors and used it to her advantage... note that the hunter-san here allowed her to get in...

chapter 72 Kaname starts the lava flow going to cover the mansion... whose mansion is it? he says it has something to do with climate change.. Sara gets inside the association and when she tells Kaien about seeing Kaname, Kaien says nothing, he looks like he's more worried about Yuki's reaction. Sara then gets free lodging inside the academy/association. Zero gets hungry. Sara notices

chapter 73 Sara takes advantage and wants a hunter's hand and tells Zero. Maria stops her. bla bla. Yuki bites Zero. The culminating act.

---

nina wrote:Is that why he was letting Sara to move freely all along? Probably …
if the gain was greater than the loss … he could afford to be a suspect
and he could deal with Sara afterwards if he had to. After all as we
saw he had to do another move meanwhile >> Hiou’s head.

yes I think another reason he could afford to be a suspect was because it also can't change the fact that he will be a criminal once he starts his original plans (which was to kill pureblood heads) So in a way Kaname is using Sara's plans, and Sara is thinking that she is using Kaname's actions to serve her plans

nina wrote:
But if so, another question rises … why he let her to take the heart
and he didn’t stepped in, right after the shield was destroyed? Could
it be cuz in the long run Sara will expose her intentions more openly?
Also
is likely that it was more important to process to the next target than
deal with Sara at that moment? I don’t know … maybe we miss another
piece of the puzzle here.

it could be he knows he will kill sara in the end, so he allows her to take the heart so it would save him the trouble... meh but that sounds lame though.. yes im with you that part seems vague. for now

juliet wrote:
I am very down with Kaname's plan...he seems to risk it all to achieve what? the reformation of the vampire society?

omg you have no idea, everytime i look at him my heart aches.. i mean he just looks SO SAD!!
He looks like an abandoned puppy that wants to be taken home...

juliet wrote:
I think that Kaname remained silent until Hanadagi's awakening. He
suspected that Sara would break the seal and move on with her plan,
after Sara had taken Ouri's powers. You are right that Kaname should
have known about Ouri's special ability, here Sara knew it.

So he
waits to see what will happen with that aspect, will she use the power
to surpass the shield, if she did that, that means Hanadagi is awaken,
it's time to get on with his plan. So when she breaks in, he must move,
it's his call, his time. Why?

yes thats what i think too. that part is shady

What drives me nuts here is the fact that Kaname instantly moves
and kills Hanadagi. He waits for no introductions...if Sara took what
she took and did what she did, I agree it's irrelevant, other than
making a damage there and awakening Hanadagi, she has no other
importancy.

i think kaname waited until sara took the heart and fled. or maybe he was too late. but i wouldnt vouch for him being late..
because he tapped aido-dono's shoulder before stabbing hanadagi, as if to say he was going to handle that. and then he explained to aido-dono a bit about purebloods...

Why was Kaname taking blood tablets when he had Yuuki to take blood from? Especially after he bit her so messy (her neck and arm). Also, right before he made his exit, Yuuki commented that he had seemed to be craving her blood lately....

hmmm