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    Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

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    is yuuki really reincarnation of herself from past??

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    Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Rose on Fri May 13, 2011 8:34 pm


    • We have seen that Kaname loved hooted women and now Yuki,but with who did he started the clan??
      Is she still alive,was it love or just desire..
      What do you think about Kanames past?
      Would he be in love with Yuki if she didn't "fall trough time" and met Kaname??
    :Hehe:

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by nina on Fri May 13, 2011 8:58 pm

    I don't believe that Kaname was IN love with the hooded-lady ... at least I'm not convinced from what I've see thus far that they shared a romantic relationship. My feeling is that the hooded-lady was an attempt from Hino to "foggy" more the identity of the real woman who drove Kaname to despair and then to slumber.

    If Kaname had a mate in the past with whom had children then must be another PB that we don't know anything about her yet ...
    or do we?





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Rose on Fri May 13, 2011 9:09 pm

    nina wrote:
    If Kaname had a mate in the past with whom had children then must be another PB that we don't know anything about her yet ...
    or do we?
    that was my tough..he must have children, otherwise how did the clan started??maybe Hino wants to put another PB in story to complicate everything,,
    I tough that Kaname loved hooted women because he was devastated after her death and that sentence you probably know " no one can be replacement for other person" but on the other hand maybe you are right and actually he loved a THIRD SOMEONE!?
    :question:

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by aya-chan on Fri May 13, 2011 9:13 pm

    nina wrote:I don't believe that Kaname was IN love with the hooded-lady ... at least I'm not convinced from what I've see thus far that they shared a romantic relationship. My feeling is that the hooded-lady was an attempt from Hino to "foggy" more the identity of the real woman who drove Kaname to despair and then to slumber.

    If Kaname had a mate in the past with whom had children then must be another PB that we don't know anything about her yet ...
    or do we?

    i second that
    you know, kaname and hooded woman wasn't real lovers. kaname said when he started to feel close to her he lost her. this means theire relationship wasn't so romantic.
    i believe kaname cared at that woman, but his feelings for yuuki are stronger.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by nina on Fri May 13, 2011 9:22 pm

    Rose wrote:
    nina wrote:
    If Kaname had a mate in the past with whom had children then must be another PB that we don't know anything about her yet ...
    or do we?
    that was my tough..he must have children, otherwise how did the clan started??maybe Hino wants to put another PB in story to complicate everything,,
    I tough that Kaname loved hooted women because he was devastated after her death and that sentence you probably know " no one can be replacement for other person" but on the other hand maybe you are right and actually he loved a THIRD SOMEONE!?
    :question:

    Rose we have discussed Kaname's past and about his relationship with the hooded-lady and other theories here ...

    http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t11-the-ancestor-theories ... if you like you can take a look ;)

    aya-chan wrote:

    i second that
    you know, kaname and hooded woman wasn't real lovers. kaname said when he started to feel close to her he lost her. this means theire relationship wasn't so romantic.
    i believe kaname cared at that woman, but his feelings for yuuki are stronger.

    Yes yes exactly!!! sLo_BigBearHug

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Kanamelover<3 on Fri May 13, 2011 10:48 pm

    Okay this was mentioned in another post but remember Yuki's time travelling when she named Artemis? Yeah maybe she travelled back again then had children with Kaname then, she died in that time so then Kaname knew she was from the future and he went into slumber to wait for Yuki to be born or something like that I don't know :question:

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by mariangie on Fri May 13, 2011 11:15 pm

    nina wrote:I don't believe that Kaname was IN love with the hooded-lady ... at least I'm not convinced from what I've see thus far that they shared a romantic relationship. My feeling is that the hooded-lady was an attempt from Hino to "foggy" more the identity of the real woman who drove Kaname to despair and then to slumber.

    If Kaname had a mate in the past with whom had children then must be another PB that we don't know anything about her yet ...
    or do we?

    I believe Kaname had something in the past with the hooded braided pureblood lady . Most probably they were lovers . But I don't think Kaname loved her . More for comfort and to have a person near him than true love . I think you're right in the spot with your idea of the braided hooded lady being a distraction for the true Kaname's Queen / wife that was the cause of his despair .

    The most thing we can use as a clue for the real identity of that unknown wife / love of Kaname is the picture at chapter 60 . Whrn Kaname is talking about his dual nature . The mystery is who is that Yuuki - alike girl with a hood . I think most think this girl could be really Yuuki that travelled to the past and remains there . Marry Kaname . So in that version she would be her own ancestress . I know my idea for who she was is not popular / acceptable for most . But I continue to think she could be a daughter Kaname had with the braided pureblood hooded lady . That became his wife later .

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by rumland on Fri May 13, 2011 11:19 pm

    I highly doubt that it is yuki from the past, there is also no garenty that yuki is the one kaname was talking to in the past when the staff was named, I think we are missing some thing, when you see into the past you see memories, so you see thru some one elses eyes, as we seen from yuki seeing the hooded women thru kanames eyes, it is highly possible there was a 3rd person there, as we see yuki seeings from a 3rd point of view often when in the past.

    My thery on the matter is that the person she was seeing the most of the past from was a 3rd women, the women who bore kanames children, so this is about where you would say that isn't true cause how would yuki be seeing her memmories instead of kanames, well about that, if kaname feed on her then he could have taken her memories as well, so this might be what happen there.

    Right now I am against the time travel option cause no clue has been mention that time travel was possible or attempted in VK universe.

    KK for this last part I already know a few people are going to be mad about it, but here goes, it is not cool if kaname ment for yuki to see thru her eyes, if she is the one who bore his kids she obviously had feelings for him, feelings that yuki would now have absourbed thru the memories, and right after she meet with zero again after all that time, it just seems a little to well timed for me.

    We know kaname will do anything to keep yuki, make he showed her the past and the other womens memories cause he was afrade yuki might try to go see zero again, it is not exacly some thing kaname would not do, but we cant be sure it is some thing he will do ether. Hunestly kaname is a enigma, if seems to have both a good and a evil side and you never know which side is in control at any given time.

    This is all just thery on my part, but it is possible and it gives another possiblity on the events.

    If there is a 3rd person it is possible the only way she would have gotten with kaname would be for the hooded lady to die, so it might have all been fate. Then if kaname were to say, try to use the bloodyrose and lose control like zero did and accedently kill that 3rd person it could be the reason for his slumber.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by nina on Sat May 14, 2011 1:28 pm

    mariangie wrote: I believe Kaname had something in the past with the hooded braided pureblood lady . Most probably they were lovers . But I don't think Kaname loved her . More for comfort and to have a person near him than true love . I think you're right in the spot with your idea of the braided hooded lady being a distraction for the true Kaname's Queen / wife that was the cause of his despair .

    Oh! I can’t exclude the possibility that he indeed had a physical relationship with the hooded-lady. My main concern was to point out that he probably didn’t have deep sentimental connection with her … passionate romantic connection. I don’t mind if they comforted each other or if they were lovers and frankly I’d like that … a man must have a certain experience …

    But when I comparing how much passionate and romantic is Kaname towards Yuuki, or how desperate was before he go to slumber and how he reacts to hooded-lady’s death then it’s easy to conclude that he wasn’t in love with the ancestor.







    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Knightmare on Sat May 14, 2011 3:03 pm

    mariangie wrote: I believe Kaname had something in the past with the hooded braided pureblood lady . Most probably they were lovers . But I don't think Kaname loved her . More for comfort and to have a person near him than true love . I think you're right in the spot with your idea of the braided hooded lady being a distraction for the true Kaname's Queen / wife that was the cause of his despair .
    I tend to think the opposite, if only because she seemed too busy to be anybody's lover. I think he was in love with her, but she perhaps not with him, but she at least loved him and wanted to protect him along with everyone else. Based on her observation, Kaname didn't want to fall in love with anyone, but found himself attached to her and didn't realise it until she'd gone and he'd lost her.

    The feelings that Yuuki sensed from Kaname about her, that he no longer felt alone. The only loss that Kaname has spoken of, has all been connected to the hooded woman, so I don't believe there was any other woman who had meaning to him. I think that he didn't run off into despair after she was gone because he wanted to fulfil her wishes and give meaning to her sacrifice, but was eventually driven into despair seeing that in spite of all their efforts, vampires were doomed to repeat their mistakes, thus proving to Kaname that her sacrifice was for nothing.

    I did not get the sense of desperation when he went into his eventual slumber, but a weary sense of loss from his words and his back to being all alone.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by minimalve on Sat May 14, 2011 6:03 pm

    I have been hung on the crazy idea that, there is no mother of the Kuran clan, rather it all began as a crazy experiemt on Kanames behalf after the great war.
    He did try to create weapons to hurt vampires, he did manage to tame the "goo" leftover of the other ancestor to make those weapons (they do have a personality of their own it seems aswell...),
    what if, he managed to mix that hobby with trying to create vampires like himself?
    (crazy theory, even too crazy for VK... I know but it is different)





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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Akaruisama on Sat May 14, 2011 9:09 pm

    I have another theory. In my opinion Kaname is not srtictly the ancstor of Kuran clan. Maybe he had sibilings and they were also pureblood vampires, so the line was begun in such way.
    Lower vampires can call him ancestor not as a start of they genetic lineage, but as one of vampires who has created vampire race.
    I know Kaname was an ally of human race, and he never turned them agains their will to create his army, but we saw a scene where he was force to do it. I think he can do it for humans who really wanted that and in this meaning, he is an ancestor, or maker of vampire race.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Kanamelover<3 on Sat May 14, 2011 9:59 pm

    Akaruisama wrote:I have another theory. In my opinion Kaname is not srtictly the ancstor of Kuran clan. Maybe he had sibilings and they were also pureblood vampires, so the line was begun in such way.
    Lower vampires can call him ancestor not as a start of they genetic lineage, but as one of vampires who has created vampire race.
    I know Kaname was an ally of human race, and he never turned them agains their will to create his army, but we saw a scene where he was force to do it. I think he can do it for humans who really wanted that and in this meaning, he is an ancestor, or maker of vampire race.

    That was exactly what I was thinking, Kaname might have had siblings!
    bouncing

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by nina on Sat May 14, 2011 10:19 pm

    minimalve wrote:I have been hung on the crazy idea that, there is no mother of the Kuran clan, rather it all began as a crazy experiemt on Kanames behalf after the great war.
    He did try to create weapons to hurt vampires, he did manage to tame the "goo" leftover of the other ancestor to make those weapons (they do have a personality of their own it seems aswell...),
    what if, he managed to mix that hobby with trying to create vampires like himself?
    (crazy theory, even too crazy for VK... I know but it is different)

    That crazy idea crossed my mind too sSc_hidingsofa when Kaname said that Rido is somehow HIS miscalculation, at the battle with Haruka ...

    Akaruisama wrote:I have another theory. In my opinion Kaname is not srtictly the ancstor of Kuran clan. Maybe he had sibilings and they were also pureblood vampires, so the line was begun in such way.

    Also another theory ... maybe Kaname didn't have children after all but the Kuran clan came from his siblings ... but this theory requires that Kaname's humans parents should have born another one PB/ancestor ??? Is that possible? scratch

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Akaruisama on Sun May 15, 2011 12:01 am

    nina wrote:
    minimalve wrote:I have been hung on the crazy idea that, there is no mother of the Kuran clan, rather it all began as a crazy experiemt on Kanames behalf after the great war.
    He did try to create weapons to hurt vampires, he did manage to tame the "goo" leftover of the other ancestor to make those weapons (they do have a personality of their own it seems aswell...),
    what if, he managed to mix that hobby with trying to create vampires like himself?
    (crazy theory, even too crazy for VK... I know but it is different)

    That crazy idea crossed my mind too sSc_hidingsofa when Kaname said that Rido is somehow HIS miscalculation, at the battle with Haruka ...

    Akaruisama wrote:I have another theory. In my opinion Kaname is not srtictly the ancstor of Kuran clan. Maybe he had sibilings and they were also pureblood vampires, so the line was begun in such way.

    Also another theory ... maybe Kaname didn't have children after all but the Kuran clan came from his siblings ... but this theory requires that Kaname's humans parents should have born another one PB/ancestor ??? Is that possible? scratch

    Why not? Had Kaname really human parents? I didn't notice it cheers
    If his parents were humans, they could have another pureblood childrein. We don't know what was happened and why the first pureblood have appeared in this world.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by juliet on Sun May 15, 2011 1:39 pm

    He should have mated with a pureblood though -haha, obviously. But if he had brothers or sisters, then they should also resemble him a lot (haha imagine another five Kaname) LOL...

    since all the Kuran line Haruka-Rido-Kaname- have a resemblance to each other. Same with Yuuki and Yuuri so I tend to think that the first Kuran ancestor should be alike them also (of course Kaname's genes here may also be dominate) but if it was his sister in the past that he recognized after all and made the Kuran dynasty? then they would be alike all along.
    Long shot I know - but again the hooded woman does not strike me like a mother figure- certainly not...






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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by mariangie on Sun May 15, 2011 4:20 pm

    juliet wrote:He should have mated with a pureblood though -haha, obviously. But if he had brothers or sisters, then they should also resemble him a lot (haha imagine another five Kaname) LOL...

    since all the Kuran line Haruka-Rido-Kaname- have a resemblance to each other. Same with Yuuki and Yuuri so I tend to think that the first Kuran ancestor should be alike them also (of course Kaname's genes here may also be dominate) but if it was his sister in the past that he recognized after all and made the Kuran dynasty? then they would be alike all along.
    Long shot I know - but again the hooded woman does not strike me like a mother figure- certainly not...

    I don't think Kaname has any siblings that were the direct ancestors of the Kurans .No logic to say he is the Kuran's ancestor if he is just a great - granduncle . Probably also no logic if Kaname was supposed to be the first Vampire King . How a king could create a vampire clan without him being a direct ancestor .

    Unless Kaname resulted to have a sister and he ended marrying her . At first that was what I believed . But unless the braided hooded pureblood lady was Kaname's sister , there is no way that could explain the Kuran's unique ability to carry anti - vampire weapons .

    If Kaname had a child / children with the braided pureblood lady ( and I suspect they had a daugther ) , she probably had died a short time after her baby / ies was / were born . I don't see her the maternal type either . I imagine Kaname more as a single father .

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by juliet on Sun May 15, 2011 4:36 pm

    mariangie wrote:
    juliet wrote:He should have mated with a pureblood though -haha, obviously. But if he had brothers or sisters, then they should also resemble him a lot (haha imagine another five Kaname) LOL...

    since all the Kuran line Haruka-Rido-Kaname- have a resemblance to each other. Same with Yuuki and Yuuri so I tend to think that the first Kuran ancestor should be alike them also (of course Kaname's genes here may also be dominate) but if it was his sister in the past that he recognized after all and made the Kuran dynasty? then they would be alike all along.
    Long shot I know - but again the hooded woman does not strike me like a mother figure- certainly not...

    I don't think Kaname has any siblings that were the direct ancestors of the Kurans .No logic to say he is the Kuran's ancestor if he is just a great - granduncle . Probably also no logic if Kaname was supposed to be the first Vampire King . How a king could create a vampire clan without him being a direct ancestor .

    Unless Kaname resulted to have a sister and he ended marrying her . At first that was what I believed . But unless the braided hooded pureblood lady was Kaname's sister , there is no way that could explain the Kuran's unique ability to carry anti - vampire weapons .


    Kaname created the anti-vampire formula using his own body parts and also he said that he was the one who wanted to sacrifice himself instead of her. So his anti-vampire power were there...with or wirhout the ancestor.

    So he must have mated with another pureblood in order to have the Kuran Clan. It could be a lost sister or anybody else, but certainly a pureblood and one with a good character too (I suppose).

    Now about the siblings thing, I do not know, also we are not certain that he did became the King (what if he went into slumber before his descedants established their power among the purebloods?) isn't that possible?

    It could be..even though Kaname gives away the majestic/royal vibe.

    I am really wondering why Hino leaves that part blank. Is it so important or unimportant?






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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun May 15, 2011 4:53 pm

    juliet wrote:
    mariangie wrote:
    juliet wrote:He should have mated with a pureblood though -haha, obviously. But if he had brothers or sisters, then they should also resemble him a lot (haha imagine another five Kaname) LOL...

    since all the Kuran line Haruka-Rido-Kaname- have a resemblance to each other. Same with Yuuki and Yuuri so I tend to think that the first Kuran ancestor should be alike them also (of course Kaname's genes here may also be dominate) but if it was his sister in the past that he recognized after all and made the Kuran dynasty? then they would be alike all along.
    Long shot I know - but again the hooded woman does not strike me like a mother figure- certainly not...

    I don't think Kaname has any siblings that were the direct ancestors of the Kurans .No logic to say he is the Kuran's ancestor if he is just a great - granduncle . Probably also no logic if Kaname was supposed to be the first Vampire King . How a king could create a vampire clan without him being a direct ancestor .

    Unless Kaname resulted to have a sister and he ended marrying her . At first that was what I believed . But unless the braided hooded pureblood lady was Kaname's sister , there is no way that could explain the Kuran's unique ability to carry anti - vampire weapons .


    Kaname created the anti-vampire formula using his own body parts and also he said that he was the one who wanted to sacrifice himself instead of her. So his anti-vampire power were there...with or wirhout the ancestor.

    So he must have mated with another pureblood in order to have the Kuran Clan. It could be a lost sister or anybody else, but certainly a pureblood and one with a good character too (I suppose).

    Now about the siblings thing, I do not know, also we are not certain that he did became the King (what if he went into slumber before his descedants established their power among the purebloods?) isn't that possible?

    It could be..even though Kaname gives away the majestic/royal vibe.

    I am really wondering why Hino leaves that part blank. Is it so important or unimportant?

    there's a high/sure chance kaname had some kind of grand authority back then because of what he said to the council before killing them:
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-43-page-5.html
    those doesn't sound like the words from a man who knows few about leading.

    as for the mystery how Kuran began.. it's difficult to tell for sure, really. But considering like you mentioned earlier juliet, since Kurans look the same nearly all of them has similarities with Kaname's appearance (for the male: Haruka, Rido) and for the female Juri and Yuki look alike.
    It is possible the male responsible for the beginning of Kuran is Kaname
    and the female is someone who looks like Yuki/Juri, following the theory of similar appearance by gender.
    The hooded woman does not look like a Kuran, nor does she appear to share similar characteristics. She is more of a tactician, a fighter with a strong sense of justice, while Kuran females (Yuki, Juri) are mainly cheerful, optimistic, family-centered, etc. so it doesn't look like they came from her (the hooded woman).

    Most probably Kaname's wife is someone who is similar to Yuki or Juri's personality and appearance, again just following by theory..

    EDIT: although how did the intermarriage inside the family started? I have another theory where Kaname created his wife out of another sort of experiment...you know, like molding a clay then giving it life sort of thing. It seems a bit premeditated that the Kuran generation we've seen so far always advocated incest, and it seems they keep falling in love with one another instead of someone outside their family, so it must be in their genes? Like how Kaname input the gene in the hunter's blood to have the natural instinct to hate vampires, he had done this to his created wife too???
    ?
    Or it could be that after the hooded woman died, and somewhere between that he discovered he had one remaining relative in the form of someone who looked like Yuki. And he fell in love with that relative and started the Kuran line with her. Then she died and Kaname went to slumber and left his sons/daughters with instructions to keep their power intact?

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by Kanamelover<3 on Sun May 15, 2011 5:35 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    juliet wrote:
    mariangie wrote:

    I don't think Kaname has any siblings that were the direct ancestors of the Kurans .No logic to say he is the Kuran's ancestor if he is just a great - granduncle . Probably also no logic if Kaname was supposed to be the first Vampire King . How a king could create a vampire clan without him being a direct ancestor .

    Unless Kaname resulted to have a sister and he ended marrying her . At first that was what I believed . But unless the braided hooded pureblood lady was Kaname's sister , there is no way that could explain the Kuran's unique ability to carry anti - vampire weapons .


    Kaname created the anti-vampire formula using his own body parts and also he said that he was the one who wanted to sacrifice himself instead of her. So his anti-vampire power were there...with or wirhout the ancestor.

    So he must have mated with another pureblood in order to have the Kuran Clan. It could be a lost sister or anybody else, but certainly a pureblood and one with a good character too (I suppose).

    Now about the siblings thing, I do not know, also we are not certain that he did became the King (what if he went into slumber before his descedants established their power among the purebloods?) isn't that possible?

    It could be..even though Kaname gives away the majestic/royal vibe.

    I am really wondering why Hino leaves that part blank. Is it so important or unimportant?

    there's a high/sure chance kaname had some kind of grand authority back then because of what he said to the council before killing them:
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-43-page-5.html
    those doesn't sound like the words from a man who knows few about leading.

    as for the mystery how Kuran began.. it's difficult to tell for sure, really. But considering like you mentioned earlier juliet, since Kurans look the same nearly all of them has similarities with Kaname's appearance (for the male: Haruka, Rido) and for the female Juri and Yuki look alike.
    It is possible the male responsible for the beginning of Kuran is Kaname
    and the female is someone who looks like Yuki/Juri, following the theory of similar appearance by gender.
    The hooded woman does not look like a Kuran, nor does she appear to share similar characteristics. She is more of a tactician, a fighter with a strong sense of justice, while Kuran females (Yuki, Juri) are mainly cheerful, optimistic, family-centered, etc. so it doesn't look like they came from her (the hooded woman).

    Most probably Kaname's wife is someone who is similar to Yuki or Juri's personality and appearance, again just following by theory..

    EDIT: although how did the intermarriage inside the family started? I have another theory where Kaname created his wife out of another sort of experiment...you know, like molding a clay then giving it life sort of thing. It seems a bit premeditated that the Kuran generation we've seen so far always advocated incest, and it seems they keep falling in love with one another instead of someone outside their family, so it must be in their genes? Like how Kaname input the gene in the hunter's blood to have the natural instinct to hate vampires, he had done this to his created wife too???
    ?
    Or it could be that after the hooded woman died, and somewhere between that he discovered he had one remaining relative in the form of someone who looked like Yuki. And he fell in love with that relative and started the Kuran line with her. Then she died and Kaname went to slumber and left his sons/daughters with instructions to keep their power intact?

    Yeah erm the experiment thing not too sure about but I think the relative thing might be it because think about Kaname and Yuki look similar and all the other kuran males look like Kaname.. hard to explain what I mean is is that all of the kurans have like red/brown eyes, dark hair I mean for appearance I think it has to be a sibling or someone who really really looks like a kuran to have all the others look the same.

    Sorry I was really bad at explaining so eg

    Kaname + Hooded Woman = no otherwise some kurans would have white/blonde/silver hair.

    Kaname + sibling = Yes similar appearance means they have very similar genes so other kurans resemble them

    Yeah that's kinda what I mean

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by mariangie on Sun May 15, 2011 5:49 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    juliet wrote:
    mariangie wrote:

    I don't think Kaname has any siblings that were the direct ancestors of the Kurans .No logic to say he is the Kuran's ancestor if he is just a great - granduncle . Probably also no logic if Kaname was supposed to be the first Vampire King . How a king could create a vampire clan without him being a direct ancestor .

    Unless Kaname resulted to have a sister and he ended marrying her . At first that was what I believed . But unless the braided hooded pureblood lady was Kaname's sister , there is no way that could explain the Kuran's unique ability to carry anti - vampire weapons .


    Kaname created the anti-vampire formula using his own body parts and also he said that he was the one who wanted to sacrifice himself instead of her. So his anti-vampire power were there...with or wirhout the ancestor.

    So he must have mated with another pureblood in order to have the Kuran Clan. It could be a lost sister or anybody else, but certainly a pureblood and one with a good character too (I suppose).

    Now about the siblings thing, I do not know, also we are not certain that he did became the King (what if he went into slumber before his descedants established their power among the purebloods?) isn't that possible?

    It could be..even though Kaname gives away the majestic/royal vibe.

    I am really wondering why Hino leaves that part blank. Is it so important or unimportant?

    there's a high/sure chance kaname had some kind of grand authority back then because of what he said to the council before killing them:
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-43-page-5.html
    those doesn't sound like the words from a man who knows few about leading.

    as for the mystery how Kuran began.. it's difficult to tell for sure, really. But considering like you mentioned earlier juliet, since Kurans look the same nearly all of them has similarities with Kaname's appearance (for the male: Haruka, Rido) and for the female Juri and Yuki look alike.
    It is possible the male responsible for the beginning of Kuran is Kaname
    and the female is someone who looks like Yuki/Juri, following the theory of similar appearance by gender.
    The hooded woman does not look like a Kuran, nor does she appear to share similar characteristics. She is more of a tactician, a fighter with a strong sense of justice, while Kuran females (Yuki, Juri) are mainly cheerful, optimistic, family-centered, etc. so it doesn't look like they came from her (the hooded woman).

    Most probably Kaname's wife is someone who is similar to Yuki or Juri's personality and appearance, again just following by theory..

    EDIT: although how did the intermarriage inside the family started? I have another theory where Kaname created his wife out of another sort of experiment...you know, like molding a clay then giving it life sort of thing. It seems a bit premeditated that the Kuran generation we've seen so far always advocated incest, and it seems they keep falling in love with one another instead of someone outside their family, so it must be in their genes? Like how Kaname input the gene in the hunter's blood to have the natural instinct to hate vampires, he had done this to his created wife too???
    ?
    Or it could be that after the hooded woman died, and somewhere between that he discovered he had one remaining relative in the form of someone who looked like Yuki. And he fell in love with that relative and started the Kuran line with her. Then she died and Kaname went to slumber and left his sons/daughters with instructions to keep their power intact?

    Why we know so little about the Kuran geneaology tree has to be very crucial to the plot . If no relevant , we were supposed to know all Yuuki's ancestors by now .

    First :because they were the royal vampire family . Royals usually are the most concern with keeping who their ancestors were . Because of the need to prove to others their rights to the throne .

    Second : the Kurans appears to be a small family . So easy to remember who was who there .

    Third : Hanabusa Aido is a historian freak . Probably the most royalist vampire noble in existance . And most of all , Kaname's more loyal follower . Even more , Hanabusa is a person who is easy for him to notice things other can't . So is strange he had not given Yuuki yet a whole tutorial / class about the Kuran family and all her ancestors name's , deeds , how they officially died , ect .

    Fourth : Kaname had not mentioned yet his real family relationship to Yuuki . As I said before , it's rare Yuuki only knows he is her ancestor . But not if he is her great - grandfather ( her only one apparently ) or even a farther relation .

    Fifth : We don't know yet the name of the braided hooded pureblood lady . If she Yuuki's original ancestress that is the minimal information we could be given .

    Sixth : When the Kuran imbreeding started ? And whom were the first ? Was Kaname and an unknown relative of his ????

    Seventh : How the Kuran's inherited the gene for yielding anti - vampire weapons ? If just Kaname had limited power to carry the weapons . And some of his descendants have full power to yield them .

    Eight : We don't know almost nothing of Kaname as Vampire King . If he was King for a long time ( many millenia ) , how there is so little information how he was as ruler . If he was a good or bad king . If he was fair or not . How the people remembers him .


    These and so many other mysteries are not being clarified yet . So I think a good explanation of Kaname's geneaology has to be given to the readers in a future to explain some events . Maybe explaining why Kaname is acting as he is now .

    ************************

    A little detail :

    Kaname was the one who make the research for the anti - vampire weapons . But the hooded braided pureblood vampire lady was the one who sacrificed herself to make the original metal ore for making all the anti - vampire weapons the hunters had for millenias . Artemis and Bloody Rose appears to be the prototypes for anti - vampire weapons . But even them appeared to be made using the metal modified by the hooded lady flesh and blood . Kaname had the intention to be the one who would be sacrified for making the weapons . He just was too late for doing so . So the hunter's anti - vampire weapons have no portion of Kaname's flesh / blood inside .

    Kaname probably has partial control over those weapons because he had drank from the hooded braided pureblood vampire lady's blood before and get some of her powers . But not enought for full use of anti - vampire weapon as his descendants .

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun May 15, 2011 6:53 pm

    Kanamelover<3 wrote:
    Kaname + Hooded Woman = no otherwise some kurans would have white/blonde/silver hair.
    yes the hooded woman was drawn to be fair-haired so if Kaname mated with her his children would have genes of fair hair... but his descendants as what was known all had dark hair.

    mariangie wrote:First :because they were the royal vampire family . Royals usually are the most concern with keeping who their ancestors were . Because of the need to prove to others their rights to the throne .
    true. this could explain why they practice incest. But mostly talking about Haruka and Juri falling in love with each other, Rido also lusting for Juri, Kaname and Yuki falling for each other...these are all incestuous love born out of being in love with their siblings. Maybe the previous Kuran generation also had this predisposition towards one another, that's why keeping the bloodline by practicing incest as compulsory was not that necessary because of the love factor? could it be in their genes? or just coincidence perhaps...?

    mariangie wrote:Second : the Kurans appears to be a small family . So easy to remember who was who there .
    from what we know they seem like they make two to three children at a time. They have cousins but live apart so the family members are often the only companions for a long time. this probably contributes to incest too

    mariangie wrote:Third : Hanabusa Aido is a historian freak . Probably the most royalist vampire noble in existance . And most of all , Kaname's more loyal follower . Even more , Hanabusa is a person who is easy for him to notice things other can't . So is strange he had not given Yuuki yet a whole tutorial / class about the Kuran family and all her ancestors name's , deeds , how they officially died , ect .

    mariangie wrote:Eight : We don't know almost nothing of Kaname as Vampire King . If he was King for a long time ( many millenia ) , how there is so little information how he was as ruler . If he was a good or bad king . If he was fair or not . How the people remembers him .

    its strange that Yuki isn't too avid in researching about Kaname, given that she knew he is ancestor now and he disappeared, she should be digging up clues about him in history books...to know more about his plans, his motives, etc... or there should be a record of his exploits or something... her frustration of not knowing anything about him is sheer evidence she was not educated about Kuran ancestors.

    As for availability/accessibility of history information, there seems to be some data that has spells on them
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-27-page-32.html
    the record where Yuki was first attacked by a vampire had a "spell" so when Yuki touched it that page burned. this might be reason why some information are witheld and accessible only to select few.

    Here it shows that even the battle between vampires and humans are kept away from the public.
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-27-page-23.html
    they are "private" records that is probably only available inside the hunter's association.

    As for vampire history, perhaps one of the council has the detailed records as well and there was no mention of it yet.. so far the historian who taught aido only mentioned important facts
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-28-page-13.html
    and aido also just know the important facts such as the creation of the antivampire weapon . Maybe there wasnt a detailed records of the Kuran line, probably the records only included what the Kurans contributed (monarchy, etc)

    mariangie wrote:Fourth : Kaname had not mentioned yet his real family relationship to Yuuki . As I said before , it's rare Yuuki only knows he is her ancestor . But not if he is her great - grandfather ( her only one apparently ) or even a farther relation .

    Kaname just said he is ancestor, but if you think about it, 10,000years ago was the climate change, and that was when Kaname as the Kuran ancestor started moving by himself. It's a bit odd (but not impossible) that by that time there was already a Kuran family existing besides himself, perhaps the family of his sister or brother.. but then again if you look at Kuran generation now the males look similar with each other and mainly had Kaname's characteristics, so it is more probable he is the sole male that began Kuran line, the other female either being another pureblood stranger, or his relative. If Kaname began the Kuran line, and he is the only Kuran alive, then he would have mated with another pureblood or vampire and from there start the incest practice..
    So Kaname created his descendants. This is just by theory. if one average lifespan of one Kuran generation is over 3,000years (based on Juri's age when she was "ready" and accepted death) divide by 10,000, then approximately 2-3 kuran generation has passed since Kaname's time as the ancestor.

    mariangie wrote:Fifth : We don't know yet the name of the braided hooded pureblood lady . If she Yuuki's original ancestress that is the minimal information we could be given .

    yes...why would her name remain a mystery, I wonder? She did play an important part in the story... I have a feeling she will appear again in a flashback to give her name. So her appearance doesn't only end with her creating the av weapons...maybe she has another important role in kaname's life

    mariangie wrote:Sixth : When the Kuran imbreeding started ? And whom were the first ? Was Kaname and an unknown relative of his ????

    if Kaname is one of the Kuran ancestor, and when he wandered the lands at the start of his flashback he was alone, it could be he was separated from his other relatives, so he was companion-less until he met with the hooded woman. Maybe somewhere there he met with his remaining relatives...or some of them that continued his bloodline, hmmm

    mariangie wrote:Seventh : How the Kuran's inherited the gene for yielding anti - vampire weapons ? If just Kaname had limited power to carry the weapons . And some of his descendants have full power to yield them .

    mariangie wrote: Kaname had the intention to be the one who would be sacrified for making the weapons . He just was too late for doing so . So the hunter's anti - vampire weapons have no portion of Kaname's flesh / blood inside .

    Kaname probably has partial control over those weapons because he had drank from the hooded braided pureblood vampire lady's blood before and get some of her powers . But not enought for full use of anti - vampire weapon as his descendants .

    that time was war, and he made that experiment himself, it's a bit futile that he wouldn't absorb some of that power too to help in the war.. lol. I can't imagine Kaname standing by the sidelines because he can't do anything to help in the war, not even with his own experiments.

    It also couldn't be that he absorbed some of the hooded woman's blood that's why he had gained the ability to wield av weapons, because he had done it before she sacrificed herself, it was only after she sacrificed herself and absorbed the experiment in her body that she began to have the power inside her that enables wielding of weapons. Kaname has it too, I think, since that was his experiment after all and the best thing to do at that time was, yes, make use of it. lol!
    however his ability to wield antivampire weapons at present speaks for itself that he does possess it, yes maybe he did absorb some of the experiment to himself since he was the one who taught the hunters how to use the weapons, so he have some knowledge about that power... perhaps he did this during the woman's sacrifice and the furnace was created. Maybe there were leftovers from the results of his experiment and he absorbed this


    Last edited by sweetsolace on Sun May 15, 2011 7:30 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : added)

    juliet
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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by juliet on Sun May 15, 2011 7:46 pm

    true. this could explain why they practice incest. But mostly talking about Haruka and Juri falling in love with each other, Rido also lusting for Juri, Kaname and Yuki falling for each other...these are all incestuous love born out of being in love with their siblings. Maybe the previous Kuran generation also had this predisposition towards one another, that's why keeping the bloodline by practicing incest as compulsory was not that necessary because of the love factor? could it be in their genes? or just coincidence perhaps...?

    As Mariangie said incest is or was a common practise among royals or members of high political/social power that wanted to preserve their status quo among the barriers of their own familly (power and wealth included).

    At vampire knight I think that we can all agree that the anti-vampire power (that makes Kings the Kurans) is a considerable rare power that should not fall or become part of the wrong clan. Therefore the protection, the familly's reservation to trust its members with other vampires (example Kaname with yuuki at the ball, or Yuuri that had to attend highschool with the permission of her grandpa and the surviellance of Haruka her brother. That's one part I think, and the other the fact that they are beasts as Kaname had said and that allows them not only to mate without the human moral restrictions of incestious relationships but perhaps it also reinforces their bonds as they identify with their own kind.
    They naturally seem to have a longing for each other and perhaps that functions as a natural selection for the most suitable mate. Am I making any sense here? LOL...

    its strange that Yuki isn't too avid in researching about Kaname, given that she knew he is ancestor now and he disappeared, she should be digging up clues about him in history books...to know more about his plans, his motives, etc... or there should be a record of his exploits or something... her frustration of not knowing anything about him is sheer evidence she was not educated about Kuran ancestors.

    Tell me about it...she realizes that he is her ancestor...SO? where is the rest part of the story? she did remember to mention though that that woman named him Kaname. She does recognize Kaname as her ancestor but not that woman. Or am I wrong? If they were related though, wouldn't even that piece of information shock her enough to call that woman the Kuran ancestor/progenitor as well? That woman seems to have no direct relation to Yuuki (by the way Yuuki expresses it).

    Kaname probably has partial control over those weapons because he had drank from the hooded braided pureblood vampire lady's blood before and get some of her powers . But not enought for full use of anti - vampire weapon as his descendants .

    It couldn't be that he absorbed some of the hooded woman's blood because he had done it before she sacrificed herself, it was only after she sacrificed herself and absorbed the experiment in her body that she began to have the power inside her that enables wielding of weapons. Kaname has it too, I think, since that was his experiment after all and the best thing to do at that time was, yes, make use of it.

    Solace I agree..

    Mariangie as you see his descedants have the full power- he made the metal blend with the part of his body (that had the anti-vampire power) and that formula was the key that the ancestor lady was waiting in order to pass the secret of the weapon's creation to the hunters.
    Plus since Kaname could have been sacrificed in her position that means that he had enough power to make the hunters + weapons, so wouldn't that be enough for his descedants sunce he was fully capable of creating the hunters?

    Also apparently the weapons have Kaname's blood since bloody Rose recognize them. I tend to believe that she borrowed his power to pass it with to the hunters and then with the formula that Kaname created, the secret how to make the weapons, was also revealed.

    Even though the part with the weapons is irrelevant to Kaname's anti-vampire powers. Since he had the power originally and used his parts in the experiment that means that fully explains and the ability of his descedants. The thing is that this is one power. I always wondered what was the power of the morther (?. Logicall shouldn't there be one more power in the family? Unless Kaname did marry one his sisters - so the power is the same in within the familly, I guess.

    there's a high/sure chance kaname had some kind of grand authority back then because of what he said to the council before killing them:
    http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-43-page-5.html
    those doesn't sound like the words from a man who knows few about leading.

    Yes I know and I go get that majestic aura all the time, no matter what he does, lol. But the thing is that Hino does not give us a solid clue towards that direction. So I am a bit reserved here, sFun_hailtheking as she always surprise us.






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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by nina on Sun May 15, 2011 8:30 pm

    About the source of the anti-vampire ability here is the link where we lengthily discussed it …

    http://vampireknight.all-up.com/t522p10-anti-vampire-weapons

    … juliet made a very good remark about hooded-lady’s paleness which might be related with the “birth” of the anti-vampire weapons and the genuine source of the anti-vampire ability.

    I’ll try to sum up to eventually conclude why I think the hooded-lady it’s not the female ancestor of Kuran clan.

    Here it goes …

    Kaname most likely is the genuine source of this ability:

    He made the experiments using his own flesh and blood. The result probably was an anti-vampire formula which if it blended with a PB’s heart it could create the anti-vampire weapons. The important element in this process is the unique formula cuz if not then the creation of anti-vampire weapons would be an easy one since the only necessity would be a PB’s heart and so it would be simply for other PBs to create their own. Also before the anti-VWs appear most likely the PBs were immortals viz nothing could kill them, not even another PB (<< I assume this from Kaname’s words “perhaps the only thing that can kill us is ourselves” …)

    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-3/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

    … so how the hooded-lady died since the lack of heart isn’t enough to kill her!?

    And here comes juliet’s observation … the ancestor lady looked pale and Kaname noticed it but he didn’t pay much attention at that time but only after her sacrifice. So maybe the hooded-lady took/”drank” Kaname’s anti-vampire formula, which made her sick>> pale and then went to the hunters and threw her heart into that furnace and etc etc. If this is what happened then also explains the death of her … the anti-vampire formula diminished her ability to regenerate (<< like a blow from an anti-VW) and then the remove of her heart was the lethal blow.

    As a conclusion of this process we can say that the anti-vampire weapons were made from Kaname’s blood/flesh (formula) plus hooded-woman’s heart hence Kaname can use/talk/order them and his descendants could wield them. Also if the hooded-woman had offsprings I suppose they also could wield the anti-VWs.

    Now if Kaname and the hooded-lady together started the Kuran’s clan then all of their offsprings should have the ability to use anti-vampire weapons but according to Isaya’s words not all of them had that ability …
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-43743-31/vampire-knight/chapter-57.html

    “…from time to time the Kuran’s gives birth to children who are able to wield hunter weapons …” so if Isaya’s words are true then the Kuran clan should have another PB as the female progenitor of their lineage, a PB who didn’t have the ability to wield the anti-VWs hence and not all of the Kurans had it.

    I hope I made sense …





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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

    Post by rumland on Sun May 15, 2011 9:00 pm

    It is not only being sick that makes you pail, in some cases emotional states can also cause it, like the state you might be in before you head out to sacrefice your life to help protect human kind, maybe even a lack of sleep while thinking it all over.

    On her death, so far we know that a pb cant be killed easily, they have to have there heart removed (being shot by a AV weapon stops it from regenerateing) and there blood drained and the hooded lady was giving out her blood even after she removed her heart, All kaname realy said about the anti vampire formula is that it requires the molten cocktail (a normal term in blacksmithing) to be combined with a certain part of a pb's body to get the effect.

    As for not all the kurans not being able to use it, even yuki was not able to use a av weapon at first after she turned, it is a ability she awakend, so it is not that all kurans can't use the weapons, it is just cause not all of them awakend the ability.

    Sence kaname is not able to weild the weapons with out getting hurt the ability obviously has to come from the mother of the clan so when you look at it this way she kinda has to be the mother of the clan, this does however kinda kill my 3rd person thery when looked at this way lol.

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    Re: Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

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