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    sara's bloodtablets

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    Bloodredhead
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    sara's bloodtablets

    Post by Bloodredhead on Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:24 am

    First topic message reminder :

    someone pointed out to me that the shape of the bloodtablets seems to have changed in this chapter, from round to an oval shape. it seems to me sara has altered them probably not just their shape but their formulae too.

    personally i think they are going to bring out the vampire nature more, and make vampires thirst more for real blood. sara was thinking about the tablets in her room with her little sara squad in the new chapter. she seemed to be giving the new tablets to them. maybe trying them out?

    what are everyone else's opinions on the tablets? and what might it lead too?

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by libra on Sun Jun 26, 2011 12:56 pm

    rumland wrote:I dont belive that yuki's thirst is as bad as it is made out to be.

    2 The thing with yori, if yuki was so thirsty over that then why did she take only a single tablet dureing there meeting? I think she was trying to warn yori to be afrade of the night class in her own way, but failed realy bad at it, no fear factor at all.

    Sorry disappointing you, but that scary face of Yuki, dreading for her own thoughts and urges doesn't really support your Yuki-Yori theory



    It looks pretty scared to me and not at all a you-have-to-be-afraid-of-me act little thing!

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by rumland on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:08 pm

    I never said yuki didn't consider yori as a meal, I just said that scene isn't as bad as people make it out to be, of course she would be worried, that looks like a worried look more then a scared look to me. The fact that yuki is a vampire means she will consider any she loves as a meal and she is worried about that, hence the act she puts on.
    Now to explain this a little better, in the first arch before zero feed on yuki the first time, he actualy tryed to keep him self away from her cause he realized he was hungering for her blood. That was intence hunger. Now with yuki, she finds her self thinkin g that yori might taste good and she sits down to talk to her.
    The point I was making is if the hunger was so strong then why didn't she try to keep her self away and why did she take only 1 tablet? When the previous time we saw her take 3. It just dosen't suport her hunger going out of control.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by libra on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:20 pm

    libra wrote:
    rumland wrote:I dont belive that yuki's thirst is as bad as it is made out to be.

    2 The thing with yori, if yuki was so thirsty over that then why did she take only a single tablet dureing there meeting? I think she was trying to warn yori to be afrade of the night class in her own way, but failed realy bad at it, no fear factor at all.

    Sorry disappointing you, but that scary face of Yuki, dreading for her own thoughts and urges doesn't really support your Yuki-Yori theory



    It looks pretty scared to me and not at all a you-have-to-be-afraid-of-me act little thing!

    rumland wrote:I never said yuki didn't consider yori as a meal, I just said that scene isn't as bad as people make it out to be, of course she would be worried, that looks like a worried look more then a scared look to me. The fact that yuki is a vampire means she will consider any she loves as a meal and she is worried about that, hence the act she puts on.
    Now to explain this a little better, in the first arch before zero feed on yuki the first time, he actualy tryed to keep him self away from her cause he realized he was hungering for her blood. That was intence hunger. Now with yuki, she finds her self thinkin g that yori might taste good and she sits down to talk to her.
    The point I was making is if the hunger was so strong then why didn't she try to keep her self away and why did she take only 1 tablet? When the previous time we saw her take 3. It just dosen't suport her hunger going out of control.

    Her look is supporting that her hunger is great, otherwise she wouldn't have jump over Yori. Yori is a human after all. The damage of biting her would be fatal. Yuki hass just started to drink the tablets, so probably that's why she's drinking only one. She is out of herself control anyway...
    No concentration (forgetting her room's door open, not sensing Yori approaching)
    Behaving immature (hiding from Zero while he senses her)

    All these are clues to give us how distracted and unfocused she is.
    All these clues led Zero to the conclusion that she is thirsty.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by rumland on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:35 pm

    Again I just dont see it as you do, if the reason she took 1 is cause she is new to tablets then why did she take 3 before? As for the jumping over yori that seems normal to me. At least my friends and I get close and play around. Remember the 2 are friends and that look dosent stay on yuki's face thru out it all.
    But I have already voiced all the evidence I have for this part and I belive I have explained away all the evidence you provided, if we dont see eye to eye now then we simply wont so it would be best to agree to disagree.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:35 pm

    S_R wrote:
    sweetsolace wrote:how do you say that's natural thirst? And how is Yuki's hunger not in question? how is it sure it is how you say it is, and that is being "sound"?

    Yuuki hunger isn't in question. We know that she is hungering. That's a fact. We all agree on it as far as I can tell. We are discussing the reason behind her hunger. That's what is in question. Like I said as to huge thirst natural I pointed out events before Sara showed up last chapter in which Yuki has also had similar cravings. Lets take for example humans hunger. You get hungry right? What's the cause? You get hungry when you don't eat right? You know this from experience. It's happened before so when you get hungry again you will naturally infer that's its due not to eating not to infer that its just elaborate plot to make you hungry right?
    following your example, so Yuki's hungry "due to not eating" and she needs a bite. She took a temporary thirst supplement which is the blood tablets for the first time. As juliet posted, blood tablets are supposed to
    alleviate thirst, as for the time of effect or its duration of effect,
    that's debatable for now. In this case, she took 3 times more than its average dose. She was still hungry the next day, so she took one dose. And that supposed to calm the hunger. But she meets with Zero and she's still hungry?! scratch

    so by your logic its either the tablets she took are expired so it doesn't have an effect no matter how much she took, or its not a blood tablet but another medicine, or Yuki developed immunity against the tablets so the dosages have to be increased as usual, which means there's something wrong with her.
    Furthermore its her first time taking the tablets so the effect should be greater or should be at its maximum therapeutic level or its intended effect which should be to alleviate her thirst. And also since its the first time, the body has no chance of developing immunity against it (since you did a human comparison, im basing it on the human body's chance to become tolerant to medicine after taking it for some time )

    So it's not about an elaborate plot as you claim it is behind the hunger, but why the blood tablets does not seem to be taking effect.

    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?

    And no, Kaname and Zero do not fit into this, they were hungry for a long long time and facing lots of real stress/ conflict compared to Yuki so taking lots of BT was justifiable in their situation.

    EDIT

    and no, her thirst is not great, it is gradual and it is caused by
    unexplained situational stress. It builds up, so when she took three
    tablets that was the measure by which she thought would be enough to
    calm her thirst. But the next day she smelled Yori's blood as delicious. She had not done that at the party where she even hugged her and was close to her neck-- it was argued it was because she recently took real blood, but take it for the fact that she just took 3-4 tablets last night, it should be enough to last her the next day. But the next day its as if that didnt work. scratch and she is craving for real blood. Moreover the fact that she pounced on Yori is something to be noted, its not normal, Yuki never did that with anyone, Yori's laughing at it because it was unusual, but Yuki's thoughts and actions indicate otherwise. That's why she takes another tablet, because she have to calm the thirst, which means she was not joking when she scared Yori into biting her. Right after that, Yuki is hungry again! affraid


    It possible that their was a plot to make you hungry? Sure but logically your going to have a hard time showing that to people without them thinking your crazy. I don't know if the my theory is correct but like I said it based on solid reasoning.
    if Yuki felt weird about what she ate and so far she's not suspecting it, then no, there's no reason to think there's a plot behind the hunger. She may not feel it happening if she's already affected, but from a reader's point of view we can follow the changes she transitioned from and see if there's something wrong or not.

    You claim there's nothing wrong, how can you be sure this is the case, what makes the situation normal? scratch


    The question for me is how is it abnormal? Like I said I don't believe it is based on previous scenes. You can disagree with that if you want but at least understand that logic is based on solid things. I didn't say it was correct but I say that my logic is understandable based on these events. I didn't construct these scenes to imply normalcy. If Yuki was not shown craving blood before this and then I inferred that she must have been just to give "evidence" towards my theory then my argument isn't really solid.
    no, I'm asking you how it can be normal base on her taking the BTs? I want to see where you are basing this for you to trash others theory. You say it is normal but what's your proof? you say your logic is solid but its not founded on solid arguments except that its logical by your definition. And everything else is wrong, unsound, etc. except for your point of view. And your point of view can either be logical or illogical depending on another point of view, you're not the one creating rules that establish which is logical or not since you're merely contradicting points and judging them as is. scratch


    If you believe it is too sudden that still doesn't run counter to my argument. At least you acknowledge that these events are not unexpected even without the blood tablet theory.
    so what's your argument exactly? that its normal for yuki to hunger? everything is backed by reason and if you can't justify how this is normal then it doesn't make it any different from an opinionated one.


    Last edited by sweetsolace on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

    libra
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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by libra on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:39 pm

    rumland wrote:
    But I have already voiced all the evidence I have for this part and I belive I have explained away all the evidence you provided, if we dont see eye to eye now then we simply wont so it would be best to agree to disagree.

    I second that, pointing that there is at lest one point that we finally agree lol! lol!

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by rumland on Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:44 pm

    I am not sure if this would be considered off topic or not, it does have to do with blood tablets, but did you guys drop the thery on kaname being affected by sara's blood tablets? I remember it used to be a hot topic.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:19 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    following your example, so Yuki's hungry "due to not eating" and she needs a bite. She took a temporary thirst supplement which is the blood tablets for the first time. As juliet posted, blood tablets are supposed to
    alleviate thirst, as for the time of effect or its duration of effect,
    that's debatable for now. In this case, she took 3 times more than its average dose. She was still hungry the next day, so she took one dose. And that supposed to calm the hunger. But she meets with Zero and she's still hungry?! scratch

    so by your logic its either the tablets she took are expired so it doesn't have an effect no matter how much she took, or its not a blood tablet but another medicine, or Yuki developed immunity against the tablets so the dosages have to be increased as usual, which means there's something wrong with her.
    Furthermore its her first time taking the tablets so the effect should be greater or should be at its maximum therapeutic level or its intended effect which should be to alleviate her thirst. And also since its the first time, the body has no chance of developing immunity against it (since you did a human comparison, im basing it on the human body's chance to become tolerant to medicine after taking it for some time )

    So it's not about an elaborate plot as you claim it is behind the hunger, but why the blood tablets does not seem to be taking effect.

    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?

    And no, Kaname and Zero do not fit into this, they were hungry for a long long time and facing lots of real stress/ conflict compared to Yuki so taking lots of BT was justifiable in their situation.

    EDIT

    and no, her thirst is not great, it is gradual and it is caused by
    unexplained situational stress. It builds up, so when she took three
    tablets that was the measure by which she thought would be enough to
    calm her thirst. But the next day she smelled Yori's blood as delicious. She had not done that at the party where she even hugged her and was close to her neck-- it was argued it was because she recently took real blood, but take it for the fact that she just took 3-4 tablets last night, it should be enough to last her the next day. But the next day its as if that didnt work. scratch and she is craving for real blood. Moreover the fact that she pounced on Yori is something to be noted, its not normal, Yuki never did that with anyone, Yori's laughing at it because it was unusual, but Yuki's thoughts and actions indicate otherwise. That's why she takes another tablet, because she have to calm the thirst, which means she was not joking when she scared Yori into biting her. Right after that, Yuki is hungry again! affraid

    Kaname used to swallow entire bottles and we've only seen Yuuki eat a couple pills. The desire is still there and we haven't been shown that blood tablets get rid of the desire just keeps it contained. I don't think we have any solid numbers on how long blood tablets last even if we did she was desiring blood not necessarily in a condition where she'd go mad without it. Like I pointed out before she had Kaname blood but yet was still biting herself and losing her cool back then from desire. I still haven't seen anything that give me reason to believe Sara is fueling this desire with these magical pills.

    if Yuki felt weird about what she ate and so far she's not suspecting it, then no, there's no reason to think there's a plot behind the hunger. She may not feel it happening if she's already affected, but from a reader's point of view we can follow the changes she transitioned from and see if there's something wrong or not.

    You claim there's nothing wrong, how can you be sure this is the case, what makes the situation normal? scratch

    I've already given my reasoning numerous times. I won't repeat it again. I just don't think a vampire hungering for blood is abnormal. Maybe I'm just being crazy.


    no, I'm asking you how it can be normal base on her taking the BTs? I want to see where you are basing this for you to trash others theory. You say it is normal but what's your proof? you say your logic is solid but its not founded on solid arguments except that its logical by your definition. And everything else is wrong, unsound, etc. except for your point of view. And your point of view can either be logical or illogical depending on another point of view, you're not the one creating rules that establish which is logical or not since you're merely contradicting points and judging them as is. scratch

    Logic is a school of thought. I didn't make it up. I'm saying you can't base theories on theories and then call that solid logic. Maybe it's because I'm a philosophy student so i do this all the time but you just can't do that and expect people not to poke holes in it. If a scene showed reasonable evidence for Sara switching the tablets then we can theorize from that and bring forth a number of theories reasonably solid to figure out her reasoning and her aims and also to theorize on the effects it could have on Yuuki. Though the farther down the line you go with theorize the less you theory is based on solid reasoning and not conjecture.

    Basically I can claim that Zero only allowed Yuuki to suck his blood because of pills given to him by Sara and she controlling him with it now. Zero was about to kill her last time she tried but now he allows it! Obviously proof that he's being manipulated by Sara correct? She switched out his pill when he was out hunting with Yuuki last chapter. She wants to get Kaname jealous by having Yuuki drink Kaname's blood and thereby having him come after them so she can pounce.

    Of course I could point out of number of inconsistencies to this but that doesn't make it impossible. Honestly though if you don't like your theories to be critiqued then keep them to yourself. That's a big reason people come to forum to read other theories and debate them.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by nina on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:02 pm

    S_R wrote: I'm generally having a hard time working out Sara's motivations here for giving Yuuki these pills.

    And why only Yuuki? Zero seems the most vulnerable here.

    These ^^^ questions are already answered previously so …

    This is one proof (out of many) that you hardly have read the theory, that so rabidly trying to trash. If not out of decency, at least for not to make fool of you self, try to read first what you are about to “criticize” (bash, trash).

    S_R wrote:
    - these theories beyond this as they seem complete contrivances.
    - I find this entire theory a bit... sad?
    - I don't think they are true. They are made up. Fake. Phony. Unreal. Artificial.
    - All I'm trying to show is the unsoundness of the theory.
    - My basic motivation is to show the illogical nature of this theory.
    - Look the theory relies on backward logic.
    - That's not actual logic.
    - What I am doing though it trying to show how unsound this theory is.
    - As you can see a lot of this reasoning isn't solid.
    - but I can prove your reasoning isn't solid
    - Logic has rules as to how to tell a good theory from a bad/unsound one. Yes, I'm attacking this theory,

    Good at least you are frank … So why so much effort to prove that these theories are contrivances, sad, fake, phoney, unreal, artificial, unsound, illogical, backward, no solid, bad ?????? You waste time and energy attacking to a trash? … hm what it says that for your logic and motivations after all? My poor mind would tell me not to bother with a transparent trash = no value.

    My poor mind also tells me that these theories/trash have succeed to lure you here for the first time, since from what I can tell from your date register you are an old member.

    I feel the need to apologise for forcing you to pop out from your pink-Zekish-bubble … really sorry.

    Now if you haven’t understood yet, your posts were indirect insults not only to the illogical minds who wrote them but also to the ones who found them logical.

    And something last … in this thread are a few members who don’t accept these theories but they haven’t been “attacked” from the others cuz are expressing their arguments by avoiding to bash and insult the others << is the proof that if you had express your opposition with civility no one would mock or attack to your posts.

    Enough said …






    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:27 pm

    nina wrote:These ^^^ questions are already answered previously so …

    This is one proof (out of many) that you hardly have read the theory, that so rabidly trying to trash. If not out of decency, at least for not to make fool of you self, try to read first what you are about to “criticize” (bash, trash)

    Yes, yes evil little me. Deeming to disagree with the loudest and most righteous on this forum. I understand your righteous indignation for me being so impertinent. Now lets move. I started up the world smallest violin just for you guys.

    To be clear I just generally don't agree with those theories. You might have find me a liar but unlike you I'd like to focus on the theory not attacking someone's character. Even if I was satan or hitler doesn't make my arguments any more/less valid. So lets stick with them. Ok?

    Good at least you are frank … So why so much effort to prove that these theories are contrivances, sad, fake, phoney, unreal, artificial, unsound, illogical, backward, no solid, bad ?????? You waste time and energy attacking to a trash? … hm what it says that for your logic and motivations after all? My poor mind would tell me not to bother with a transparent trash = no value.

    My poor mind also tells me that these theories/trash have succeed to lure you here for the first time, since from what I can tell from your date register you are an old member.

    I feel the need to apologise for forcing you to pop out from your pink-Zekish-bubble … really sorry.

    Now if you haven’t understood yet, your posts were indirect insults not only to the illogical minds who wrote them but also to the ones who found them logical.

    And something last … in this thread are a few members who don’t accept these theories but they haven’t been “attacked” from the others cuz are expressing their arguments by avoiding to bash and insult the others << is the proof that if you had express your opposition with civility no one would mock or attack to your posts.

    Enough said …


    I kept my arguments pretty strictly on the theory. Any pushing of them towards insulting the intelligence of those making it is absurd. You can not agree on something without thinking the person putting it forth is an idiot. Unless that it something you have trouble doing on your own. Saying that someone is bashing has basically become the shield a lot of people in this community to avoid any sort of people disagreeing with them. A victim complex I generally don't concern myself with. I don't think I've been uncivil and I've kept my opinions pretty focus on the argument and not the people who makes the arguments.

    Now your evidence against my stance is? You don't like me? K, duly noted.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by Bloodredhead on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:30 pm

    rumland wrote:I am not sure if this would be considered off topic or not, it does have to do with blood tablets, but did you guys drop the thery on kaname being affected by sara's blood tablets? I remember it used to be a hot topic.

    I’m not sure where the topic went but it’s not off topic to discuss the tablets and if they affected Kaname.

    libra wrote:
    Sorry disappointing you, but that scary face of Yuki, dreading for her own thoughts and urges doesn't really support your Yuki-Yori theory

    It looks pretty scared to me and not at all a you-have-to-be-afraid-of-me act little thing!
    libra wrote:Her look is supporting that her hunger is great, otherwise she wouldn't have jump over Yori. Yori is a human after all. The damage of biting her would be fatal. Yuki hass just started to drink the tablets, so probably that's why she's drinking only one. She is out of herself control anyway...
    No concentration (forgetting her room's door open, not sensing Yori approaching)
    Behaving immature (hiding from Zero while he senses her)
    All these are clues to give us how distracted and unfocused she is.
    All these clues led Zero to the conclusion that she is thirsty.

    I agree. Yuuki does seem to have her head in the clouds recently, she doesn’t seem focused at all. Her control also seems off, I don’t think a Yuuki in control would have been affected by smelling Yori’s blood to the extent she did. Even Yuuki was horrified at herself and her thoughts. Yuuki’s thirst seems a bit too much all of a sudden. She was fine a couple of chapters ago and now she is craving a lot. Yes she hasn’t fed for a while, and she’s in close proximity to Zero someone she has strong feelings about. But think about it when Yuuki was injured by Touma she should have craved for a lot of blood considering she lost a lot, she was very close to Zero but didn’t bite him, (she did nearly but pulled out.) she controlled her thirst. Where has that control gone?

    S_R wrote:
    Kaname used to swallow entire bottles and we've only seen Yuuki eat a couple pills.

    Erm…where did Kaname swallow a whole bottle down????? Zero has but not Kaname if memory serves me right.

    Oh and with this whole thing of logic. Where’s yours? You haven’t backed any evidence that I’ve seen to your words. If you want to argue against this theory fine that’s your right and your opinion, but please use evidence instead of just bashing. With what I’m reading you seem to be saying your right and the rest of us are wrong due to your logic, but who’s to say your logic isn’t flawed?

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by mariangie on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:38 pm

    S_R said :
    I've already given my reasoning numerous times. I won't repeat it again. I just don't think a vampire hungering for blood is abnormal. Maybe I'm just being crazy.


    All vampires desire blood . But if a normal vampire could not control his / her bloodlust probably humanity would be extinct by now . Or hunters would had to eliminate all vampires alive . Or at least the Night class proyect could never be developed . As everytime a vampire student lost his / her control , he / she will attack a human Day Class student . Compromising the secrecy of the existence of vampires .The main difference between born vampires or stabilized Level D vampires and unstabilize D or E vampires is the the former lost the control to keep their bloodlust in check . No matter if they have blood tablets or a real blood source available .

    For most vampires , blood tablets , even if tasteless or bad - tasting , are enought to keep their desire for blood in check . Not a perfect substitute . But an acceptable way to deal with the desire for blood .

    Somehow Yuuki couldn't control her bloodlust in the past few days . Not known how many days have passed from the time Kaname left her . Maybe several weeks / some months . As this chapter states 1 1/2 year has passed since Yuuki left the Academy originally . So around 6 months had passed since Yuuki was presented to vampire society to the present .

    The important point is : Yuuki is not assimilating the blood tablets . No matter these are the usual type or a new kind given just to her . The blood tablets given to her didn't have the effect desired . She craves blood . She had to snap after almost losing control when beside her best friend . A loved one . Desiring to drink the blood of one of the people she loves more in the world ( Not romantically in this case of course . ). Smelling her blood and finding it good for the take . But if she did that , Yori now would be a vampire . Or dead . Yuuki as a pureblood would had either drained Yori's blood until killing her . Or turned Yori into a vampire as any pureblood can do to a human .

    If Zero sensed on Yuuki she is losing control of herself by bloodlusting . Zero could relate . He several days / weeks ago , almost bite a little girl himself due to losing his control for a second . Zero is just a Level D vampire . He could just take a little blood from the girl without killing her . His worst scenario would be Zero killing a small girl . But in the case of Yuuki , if she lost control , things could be a major disaster . In the worst scenario , Yuuki alone could kill or transform the entire Day Class in only a few hours . If berseker , even an army of vampires hunters could not stop her for doing this . Without having heavy losses from their side .

    So Zero offer his blood to Yuuki believing his blood could make her control her bloodlust for a while . Most probably their contract at the next chapter is a mirror image of the first arc . During the first arc Yuuki offered Zero her blood to aid him with his hunger . Now Zero will offer his blood to aid Yuuki with her hunger . Using the excuse of needing her in control of herself as the blood tablets didn't work for her . As repaying the favor she did in the past . Exactly as the first arc , when Zero could not tolerate blood tablets .


    Abot Sara's new blood tablets :

    The real effect of Sara's blood tablets is not known yet . She easily could even order several kinds for different purposes . But the ones with good taste are most probably intented for the vampires who are at her side . No matter what side effect she intended with these ( Ex. control vampires ). She wants to be Queen . She needs people to govern . People who are with her . Either by loving her or by fear . This would not discart Sara ordering a special blend for Yuuki or Kaname . Or for any enemy she believes could oppose her . As she now has the control of the main pharmaceutical that produces blood tablets for more than a year .

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:39 pm

    Bloodredhead wrote:Erm…where did Kaname swallow a whole bottle down????? Zero has but not Kaname if memory serves me right.

    Oh and with this whole thing of logic. Where’s yours? You haven’t backed any evidence that I’ve seen to your words. If you want to argue against this theory fine that’s your right and your opinion, but please use evidence instead of just bashing. With what I’m reading you seem to be saying your right and the rest of us are wrong due to your logic, but who’s to say your logic isn’t flawed?

    It was the chapter where Kaname is talking to Ruka and Kain at the party when young. I'll have to look for the chapter. Give me a few.

    I still don't understand this bashing things. I do believe in my only theory but I don't believe its infallible. I've stated before that I only find it much more logically sound that arguments which are based on having other unproven events used to support it. It you want to argue the flaws in my logic please do. Just like you just did I will respond with my thinking and justification.

    Edit- Chapter 48 page 19.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by Bloodredhead on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:47 pm

    S_R wrote:
    It was the chapter where Kaname is talking to Ruka and Kain at the party when young. I'll have to look for the chapter. Give me a few.

    thankyou.

    S_R wrote:
    I still don't understand this bashing things. I do believe in my only theory but I don't believe its infallible. I've stated before that I only find it much more logically sound that arguments which are based on having other unproven events used to support it. It you want to argue the flaws in my logic please do. Just like you just did I will respond with my thinking and justification.

    the way you said things came across as if you were personally attacking. i dont know if you intended it or not but thats how it came across.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:02 pm

    mariangie wrote:All vampires desire blood . But if a normal vampire could not control his / her bloodlust probably humanity would be extinct by now . Or hunters would had to eliminate all vampires alive . Or at least the Night class proyect could never be developed . As everytime a vampire student lost his / her control , he / she will attack a human Day Class student . Compromising the secrecy of the existence of vampires .The main difference between born vampires or stabilized Level D vampires and unstabilize D or E vampires is the the former lost the control to keep their bloodlust in check . No matter if they have blood tablets or a real blood source available .

    For most vampires , blood tablets , even if tasteless or bad - tasting , are enought to keep their desire for blood in check . Not a perfect substitute . But an acceptable way to deal with the desire for blood .

    Well vampires don't have to kill their victims when they drink the blood. Though I don't generally agree with you here. Remember the Vampire in the early chapters who was sneaking around to drink the blood of a girl he liked, or that Aidou still had the desire to drink some of the girl's blood. It's not perfect and is something they must fight with all the time and those guys having been doing it all their lives. While Yuuki hasn't.


    Somehow Yuuki couldn't control her bloodlust in the past few days . Not known how many days have passed from the time Kaname left her . Maybe several weeks / some months . As this chapter states 1 1/2 year has passed since Yuuki left the Academy originally . So around 6 months had passed since Yuuki was presented to vampire society to the present .

    The important point is : Yuuki is not assimilating the blood tablets . No matter these are the usual type or a new kind given just to her . The blood tablets given to her didn't have the effect desired . She craves blood . She had to snap after almost losing control when beside her best friend . A loved one . Desiring to drink the blood of one of the people she loves more in the world ( Not romantically in this case of course . ). Smelling her blood and finding it good for the take . But if she did that , Yori now would be a vampire . Or dead . Yuuki as a pureblood would had either drained Yori's blood until killing her . Or turned Yori into a vampire as any pureblood can do to a human .

    If Zero sensed on Yuuki she is losing control of herself by bloodlusting . Zero could relate . He several days / weeks ago , almost bite a little girl himself due to losing his control for a second . Zero is just a Level D vampire . He could just take a little blood from the girl without killing her . His worst scenario would be Zero killing a small girl . But in the case of Yuuki , if she lost control , things could be a major disaster . In the worst scenario , Yuuki alone could kill or transform the entire Day Class in only a few hours . If berseker , even an army of vampires hunters could not stop her for doing this . Without having heavy losses from their side .

    So Zero offer his blood to Yuuki believing his blood could make her control her bloodlust for a while . Most probably their contract at the next chapter is a mirror image of the first arc . During the first arc Yuuki offered Zero her blood to aid him with his hunger . Now Zero will offer his blood to aid Yuuki with her hunger . Using the excuse of needing her in control of herself as the blood tablets didn't work for her . As repaying the favor she did in the past . Exactly as the first arc , when Zero could not tolerate blood tablets .

    It's not like I don't think you have some good reasoning here but I don't necessarily see the need for blood tablets to be involved. It doesn't follow in my mind. If it was allude to in some form I'd be much more receptive but I just can't. Wasn't it state in chapter 72 that was her first blood tablet? Then after so much time without blood I would imagine she's craving blood on some level.




    Abot Sara's new blood tablets :

    The real effect of Sara's blood tablets is not known yet . She easily could even order several kinds for different purposes . But the ones with good taste are most probably intented for the vampires who are at her side . No matter what side effect she intended with these ( Ex. control vampires ). She wants to be Queen . She needs people to govern . People who are with her . Either by loving her or by fear . This would not discart Sara ordering a special blend for Yuuki or Kaname . Or for any enemy she believes could oppose her . As she now has the control of the main pharmaceutical that produces blood tablets for more than a year .

    That any interesting theory, but like I said the theory is only made to rectify a inconsistency in the larger theory which makes it very very shaky. You have no basis for it beyond that. With makes me wary.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by juliet on Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:16 pm

    [quote="S_R"]
    Yuuki hunger is not in question. But, we seen her craving blood when Yori walked by before Sara showed up. We see her biting herself and craving blood when she had "her loved one's" blood earlier. Those are facts and logic follows them that her craving might be natural to her without any outside influence. Now, that doesn't mean that it's the truth but logically it's a sound argument.

    Can you tell me exactly which scenes you mean because I am confused?

    I'm not actually even asserting any theory. What I am doing though it trying to show how unsound this theory is.

    Unsound? to make this theory unsound it must not fit the manga or the plot. Or it must be false by the script. On what ground are you stating it is unsound?

    Let's start at the end. Yuuki hunger is growing so the theory being that the blood tablets are the cause of this. Now we don't have any evidence towards that. Right? We can theorize once again to them having these effects.
    Then how did she gets these pills to her? It isn't hinted or shown in this chapter or last? So once again a theory must be built on how she switched out these tablets

    yes and if she had taken it, Hino would just reveal to you all the plot?
    No where in the first arc Yuuki being a pureblood vampire was clearly pictured, neither the fact that even Rido existed (very few hints could point there, but if a conversation started questioning and connecting the death of Kaname’s parents with Yuuki and the appearance of Yuuki to the snow, the interest that Kaname shows her bla..bla..with that revelation, your answer to them would probably be the same.)

    So they could not dicsuss that probability because the logic would be unsound to you? now I do not know what philosophy says about it, about I can tell you what democracy says and also what the correct manners say about participating in a conversation ...because if you think that you are making it here to insult the logic of the members by twisting around just about anything and bashing theories that you do not like because they sound unsolid, no that's not a good excuse, I suggest find another one.


    Meanwhile Yuuki's comment to Zero that she had left the door open that shows how careless she is with the space.

    Also what about the differences in taste? Once again another theory constructed to explain this.

    What has the taste got to do if Yuuki has taken tha tablets or not? we do not built the theory of the children to proove anything about Yuuki, points unrelated to each other... after all the thread is called "blood-tablets" you really mind that much?


    All theories are constructed based on hints/speculations, until they are confirned by the facts and then the theory is becoming a fact itself...

    Backward logic is fine as long as you can give evidence towards it and you aren't building evidence to fit your theory.
    If you construct an evidence then the theory will have problem ...if you use an evidence/hint to hypothesize something i do not see the wrong in this..and this is what we do...

    Yuuki's thirst> questioning the effectiveness of the tablets>unpleasant feelings>blood cells of the prisoners that Sara has made slaves to build an army>tasty tablets?>kidnapped kids...
    so we did not make none of the above; we connected them...

    We did not make up the kidnapped children, we used it to give a meaning to the children’s kidnaps plus trying to guess what can make the tablets really taste.
    Are you going to say that this has no logic behind it?

    The same with Yuuki’s bloodlust.
    We were looking for an alternative other than the obvious.
    Not only it does not contradict the script, but if this theory is valid all hints are mainly used here to complete the picture.

    Now also Sara motivations which are already very unclear for even coming there are also being inferred based these later theories. We don't use her already known reasoning and connect them up logically but we use one of many possibilities to connect to other possibilities and theories. As you can see a lot of this reasoning isn't solid. It depends on other things being true that aren't necessarily true. Like I said earlier I can't prove you wrong but I can prove your reasoning isn't solid.

    Which are the based later thories? and which are the already known reasoning that connect logically? You are not telling me anything, other than ranting about it. I can't fight negativity, do you have an arguement?


    Logic has rules as to how to tell a good theory from a bad/unsound one.


    Then I would suggest applying them.

    Yes, I'm attacking this theory, I don't accept all theories.
    Some make sense some don't. In fact if people did that without critiquing then we'd never be able to separate good one from bads.

    About theories until they are proven by the script or proven by other facts that come in that are wrong, are fine to exist. It could be wrong, it could be right, but theories have already served their purpose with people using their mind and their logic to make guesses, questioning the script and its intentions and that’s a healthy procedure. Later they can also see where they went wrong, what was right. What really worries me though is the fact that I need to go over these basic stuff, that's theory you know and open to development and corrections and bla bla... Now you don't like it, or its arguements, you can't follow its logic or you do not want it, that's your right but it is also your bother also. Not mine...

    I don't believe there is positive value in accepting any theory.

    Well I propose to you to get ready to write a lot of posts because here we are making tones of theories, some bad, some good ones, but true, some false..but we are enjoying it all together Razz . Or stay out of this if you prefer not to get interfered with theories, they are too many lurking around sSc_jawdrop3


    The big bang didn't create the universe a giant space bunny did. Prove me wrong. You can't but you can show that from our knowledge such a thing is extremely unlikely.

    Spoiler:
    Georges Lemaître proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the universe, he called it his "hypothesis of the primeval atom". The framework for the model relies on Albert Einstein's general relativity and on simplifying assumptions (such as homogeneity and isotropy of space). The governing equations had been formulated by Alexander Friedmann. In 1929, Edwin Hubble discovered that the distances to far away galaxies were generally proportional to their redshifts—an idea originally suggested by Lemaître in 1927. Hubble's observation was taken to indicate that all very distant galaxies and clusters have an apparent velocity directly away from our vantage point: the farther away, the higher the apparent velocity.[8]

    If the distance between galaxy clusters is increasing today, everything must have been closer together in the past. This idea has been considered in detail back in time to extreme densities and temperatures,[9][10][11] and large particle accelerators have been built to experiment on and test such conditions, resulting in significant confirmation of the theory, but these accelerators have limited capabilities to probe into such high energy regimes. Without any evidence associated with the earliest instant of the expansion, the Big Bang theory cannot and does not provide any explanation for such an initial condition; rather, it describes and explains the general evolution of the universe since that instant. The observed abundances of the light elements throughout the cosmos closely match the calculated predictions for the formation of these elements from nuclear processes in the rapidly expanding and cooling first minutes of the universe, as logically and quantitatively detailed according to Big Bang nucleosynthesis.
    Fred Hoyle is credited with coining the term Big Bang during a 1949 radio broadcast. It is popularly reported that Hoyle, who favored an alternative "steady state" cosmological model, intended this to be pejorative, but Hoyle explicitly denied this and said it was just a striking image meant to highlight the difference between the two models.[12][13][14] Hoyle later helped considerably in the effort to understand stellar nucleosynthesis, the nuclear pathway for building certain heavier elements from lighter ones. After the discovery of the cosmic microwave background radiation in 1964, and especially when its spectrum (i.e., the amount of radiation measured at each wavelength) was found to match that of thermal radiation from a black body, most scientists were fairly convinced by the evidence that some version of the Big Bang scenario must have occurred.

    I? proving you wrong? no you would have to prove wrong the above gentleman (that's how the logic goes) and the rest... Now that's what logic says.

    Logic is a school of thought. I didn't make it up. I'm saying you can't base theories on theories and then call that solid logic. Maybe it's because I'm a philosophy student so i do this all the time but you just can't do that and expect people not to poke holes in it.

    Thank god you did not make it up...LOL
    But you do not philosophize anything, actually you are telling us to stop thinking and making theories. All you are telling us is to stick blindly to the script, overview some facts and neglect some others. Nice philosophy there.

    Of course I could point out of number of inconsistencies to this but that doesn't make it impossible. Honestly though if you don't like your theories to be critiqued then keep them to yourself. That's a big reason people come to forum to read other theories and debate them.

    Now apart from telling us what to think, you are going to tell us what to do as well? So if you do not like it stop reading them as well. Or stop insulting and offending people telling them how their logic should be used because that is way beyond philosophy, that's offense and you are trolling the discussion.

    You have arguements againts this theory proove it wrong/ at least bring evidence that support how unsolid this is...

    If you can not proove it, I think that as a theory it stands its grounds along with the Bing-Bang theory...






    I' ll show you a sweet dream next time

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by mariangie on Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:14 pm

    S_R wrote :

    Well vampires don't have to kill their victims when they drink the blood. Though I don't generally agree with you here. Remember the Vampire in the early chapters who was sneaking around to drink the blood of a girl he liked, or that Aidou still had the desire to drink some of the girl's blood. It's not perfect and is something they must fight with all the time and those guys having been doing it all their lives. While Yuuki hasn't.


    The main reason Guardians existed in the Cross Academy was for the purpose of making the Night / Day Class students avoiding making mistakes that could expose the exsitance of vampires to humans . As could some vampire trying to sneak for taking blood from a human . After all , most vampires had the believe humans are food . Or things to play with . But nor aido nor most students at the Night Class lost control of their hunger to attack a Day Class one . Except for the case the Vampire who get in love with a human student and began to bite her , then erase her memories of the bite . But these were isolated events that could be resolved with little difficulty .

    The only event in the first arc that involved a complex problem of breaking the security of the Night Class existance was actually the lost of control of Zero's bloodlust . Yuuki offering her blood to ease it . Because if other vampires get to know this , they could had wanted to do the same . Breaking one of the safety most important rules of the Academy : Don't feed on humans .

    When most vampires feed , they probably don't kill their pray . They just make the human a little anemic .As they are in control of their hunger . But if a vampire feeds over the same human for a long time or drinks until the human is drained . This would kill the human . The main problem with the special case of purebloods is they don't only drink a little blood . Left their victim go home basically unharmed . A pureblood kill his / her human victim or turns him / her to a vampire . This makes the case of Yuuki , a pureblood vampire , worse than average to left her lose control of her bloodlust in a closed place filled with humans .


    The main point is Yuuki not tolerating blood tablets . They could not fill her hunger for blood . This part is a fact . The part many people here are trying to explain is why Yuuki can't tolerate blood tablets . The idea of Sara tampered the pills Yuuki took before is only one of several theories that could explain why Yuuki can't . Of course other theories can be make . Other theory could be the best / true one . But no further information yet to know what is the real one .


    C_R , this is just a place for expressing ourselves . We could write any theory or commentary we want without the need to bash / troll others . Your are intended to your ideas . As I or the others are . If you have a strong argument , try to back it up with proofs . We can get wrong with any theory / ideas . Part of a good discussion is watching / having different points of view . Showing to others our views are right .Or discover we are wrong after seeing evidence against our original ideas . But I not new to V. K's discussions . I think I have a good idea of the main plot by now . So I would not change some of my ideas , just by reading every time I post another person don't agree with me without a good reason for disagree with .

    I'm not sure . But I think I remember your writing style from some other place . So don't try to boss others here as well . As you tried to do to me here .

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:17 pm

    juliet wrote:Can you tell me exactly which scenes you mean because I am confused?

    The scene with Yori was in Chapter 71 when she was outside her window with Zero. The scene with Yuuki was 51 when sit bite herself and when Aidou asked why she was hungry even though she had Kaname's blood.

    Unsound? to make this theory unsound it must not fit the manga or the plot. Or it must be false by the script. On what ground are you stating it is unsound?

    Logic.

    yes and if she had taken it, Hino would just reveal to you all the plot?
    No where in the first arc Yuuki being a pureblood vampire was clearly pictured, neither the fact that even Rido existed (very few hints could point there, but if a conversation started questioning and connecting the death of Kaname’s parents with Yuuki and the appearance of Yuuki to the snow, the interest that Kaname shows her bla..bla..with that revelation, your answer to them would probably be the same.)
    So they could not dicsuss that probability because the logic to them would be unsound? now I do not know what philosophy says about it, about I can tell you what democracy says and also what the correct manners about participating in a conversation say...because if you think that you are making here to insult the logic of the members by twisting around just about anything and bashing theories that you do not like because they sound unsolid, no that's not a good excuse, I suggest find another one.

    You put words in my mouth. I don't care if you discuss theories. Actually I thrive off them. Some people create other dissect.

    Rido was hinted at correct? Or at least a person who would be a future villian. Before, Kaname killed Shizuka he mentioned that man. And we had the kid with different color eyes. We knew he was coming right? We could use logic to deduce that a future villian was coming who was somehow involved with both Shizuka and Kaname. You could definitely theorized a lot of different things from that point but most of them would be sound. Correct?



    What has the taste got to do if Yuuki has taken tha tablets or not? we do not built the theory of the children to proove anything about Yuuki, points unrelated to each other... after all the thread is called "blood-tablets" you really mind that much?


    All theories are constructed based on hints/speculations, until they are confirned by the facts and then the theory is becoming a fact itself...

    I agree but does that mean all theories should be treated equally just because they are theories or based on the likelihood of them occurring based on logic and reasoning?



    If you construct an evidence then the theory will have problem and that won't make it problematic...if you use an evidence/hint to hypothesize something i do not see the wrong in this..and this is what we do...

    Yuuki's thirst> questioning the effectiveness of the tablets>unpleasant feelings>blood cells of the prisoners that Sara has made slaves to build an army>tasty tablets?>kidnapped kids...
    so did not make none of the above; we connected them...
    We did not make up the kidnapped children, we used it to give a meaning to the children’s kidnaps plus trying to guess what can make the tablets really taste.
    Are you going to say that this has no logic?

    The same with Yuuki’s bloodlust?
    You mind looking for an alternative other than the obvious.
    Not only it does not contradict the script, but if this theory is valid all hints are mainly used here to complete the picture.

    That's fine but if you put it on a forum as a theory then you should be willing to defend points in it. If you think that the children are being used to make these blood pills that certainly a possibility and I consider it a decent theory. Knowing how the blood of child is said to taste it certainly make sense. That is a valid and reasonable theory to explain the taste of the tablets given to the girls.

    This can not to be related to how it is causing Yuuki to thirst more as you contend. Their is no evidence that an increased thirst would be caused by any of this.


    Then I would suggest applying them.

    I have been. I give my reasoning for everything. I try to connect them in a way that makes sense and draw conclusions from them.



    About theories until they are proven by the script or proven by other facts that come in that are wrong, are fine to exist. It could be wrong, it could be right, but theories have already served their purpose with people using their mind and their logic to make guesses, questioning the script and its intentions and that’s a healthy procedure. Later they can also see where they went wrong, what was right. What really worries me though is the fact that I need to go over these basic stuff, that's theory you know and open to development and corrections and bla bla... Now you don't like it, or its arguements, you can't follow its logic or you do not want it, that's your right but it is also your bother also. Not mine...

    Yes, your right about theories. Absolutely! What's wrong with me questioning theories? I do I have to go the basic stuff that I love analyzing theories and discuss if they make sense to me or don't?

    Well I propose to you to get ready to write a lot of posts because here we are making tones of theories, some bad, some good ones, but true, some false..but we are enjoying it all together Razz . Or stay out of this if you prefer not to get interfered with theories, they are too many lurking around

    Bring on the theories. I love them. But, not making them. Other people make them that's not me. If you write in any forum you should be able to defend your position. That's not too much to ask right? I'm ready to assert my own.



    I? proving you wrong? no you would have to prove wrong the above gentleman (that's how the logic goes) and the rest... Now that's what logic says.

    Good. If I was addressing that theory I'd be happy to lays out things but I'm not. I'm only concerned with this.

    Thank god you did not make it up...LOL
    But you do not philosophize anything, actually you are telling us to stop thinking and making theories. All you are telling us is to stick blindly to the script, overview some facts and neglect some others. Nice philosophy there.

    Nope. I encourage theories but do you dislike critique? Do you want to be coddled your whole life and have no one question your beliefs or views? Then please hide away in your house and tell yourself whatever you want.

    Now apart from telling us what to think, you are going to tell us what to do as well? So if you do not like it stop reading them as well. Or stop insulting and offending people telling them how their logic should be used because that is way beyond philosophy, that's offense and you are trolling the discussion.

    You have arguements againts this theory proove it wrong/ at least bring evidence that support how unsolid this is...

    If you can not proove it, I think that as a theory it stands its grounds along with the Bing-Bang theory...

    I'm not insulting people. If you don't like the way I present my argument, don't respond. I won't cry about you being mean to me. I'm good.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:31 pm


    C_R , this is just a place for expressing ourselves . We could write any theory or commentary we want without the need to bash / troll others . Your are intended to your ideas . As I or the others are . If you have a strong argument , try to back it up with proofs . We can get wrong with any theory / ideas . Part of a good discussion is watching / having different points of view . Showing to others our views are right .Or discover we are wrong after seeing evidence against our original ideas . But I not new to V. K's discussions . I think I have a good idea of the main plot by now . So I would not change some of my ideas , just by reading every time I post another person don't agree with me without a good reason for disagree with .

    I'm not sure . But I think I remember your writing style from some other place . So don't try to boss others here as well . As you tried to do to me here .

    Well, I'm honored if you did remember me from somewhere! Very Happy Though when did I try to boss you around?

    I don't have a problem with people expressing themselves. Does that mean I bash when I question certain theories? Bash/troll does that mean you have your own viewpoints and you express them to others who might not like it? I debate for the love of debating. The love of seeing someone else opinion and using it to analyze my own.

    I agree with you generally on your views. I think it well reasoned even if I disagree with the if we can infer that Yuuki is going outside the norm of a vampire as per my previous examples. I think you're a fairly reasonable person as far as i can tell. I agree that the theory in this thread is possible but I was arguing the probably and the flaws inside of it. I think I have a right to point out things I disagree.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:11 pm


    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?
    - unanswered, until now.

    S_R wrote:
    Kaname used to swallow entire bottles and we've only seen Yuuki eat a couple pills. The desire is still there and we haven't been shown that blood tablets get rid of the desire just keeps it contained. I don't think we have any solid numbers on how long blood tablets last even if we did she was desiring blood not necessarily in a condition where she'd go mad without it. Like I pointed out before she had Kaname blood but yet was still biting herself and losing her cool back then from desire. I still haven't seen anything that give me reason to believe Sara is fueling this desire with these magical pills.

    You're not reading. I mentioned before:

    And no, Kaname and Zero do not fit into this, they were hungry for a
    long long time and facing lots of real stress/ conflict compared to
    Yuki so taking lots of BT was justifiable in their situation.


    and how do you know that blood tablets don't get rid of the desire just keeps it contained? where's your proof?

    What does Yuki losing cool have to do with anything?

    I've given out lots of questions you haven't answered. If you spent more time thinking about it rather than rehashing your definition of logic and theory , this discussion will lead somewhere.


    I've already given my reasoning numerous times. I won't repeat it again. I just don't think a vampire hungering for blood is abnormal. Maybe I'm just being crazy.
    the only reasoning you've repeated is how your logic is sound and how your reasoning is solid while all the rest here is bull sheet. If you can't prove it then you're just bashing everyone here.

    Logic is a school of thought. I didn't make it up. I'm saying you can't base theories on theories and then call that solid logic. Maybe it's because I'm a philosophy student so i do this all the time but you just can't do that and expect people not to poke holes in it. If a scene showed reasonable evidence for Sara switching the tablets then we can theorize from that and bring forth a number of theories reasonably solid to figure out her reasoning and her aims and also to theorize on the effects it could have on Yuuki. Though the farther down the line you go with theorize the less you theory is based on solid reasoning and not conjecture.

    So again, I ask the question you ignored,

    I'm asking you how it can be normal base on her taking the BTs? I want
    to see where you are basing this for you to trash others theory. You say
    it is normal but what's your proof?



    Basically I can claim that Zero only allowed Yuuki to suck his blood
    because of pills given to him by Sara and she controlling him with it
    now. Zero was about to kill her last time she tried but now he allows
    it! Obviously proof that he's being manipulated by Sara correct? She
    switched out his pill when he was out hunting with Yuuki last chapter.
    She wants to get Kaname jealous by having Yuuki drink Kaname's blood and
    thereby having him come after them so she can pounce.

    oh, so you claim this? where's your proof? did you know this is actually what conjecture looks like?


    Of course I could point out of number of inconsistencies to this but that doesn't make it impossible.
    Honestly though if you don't like your theories to be critiqued then
    keep them to yourself. That's a big reason people come to forum to read
    other theories and debate them.
    and you've even given yourself the audacity to tell yourself that you are critiquing others. Don't make me laugh. You're not doing anything but poking holes and bashing everyone. If you were even worthy of being a good debate I would've answered you properly but since you've trashed it before you can prove it wrong then what does that tell of you? Don't delude yourself anymore than you already have.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by S_R on Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:37 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?

    I'll just avoid all your rhetoric and stick to the facts here. I don't believe they aren't working. You say it having no effect but I say that it is. I can understand why you would assert they aren't working but as I said before I don't believe they completely kill the desire for blood. Aidou still wanted blood from the girls even though he was taking blood pills and so did that boy who was chasing after the one day class girls also.

    We know that the blood of your loved one is one of the most enticing and desired thing. Now Yuuki is bad around two people she loves, Yori and Zero, that desire is certainly going to pick up? Correct? Now unlike someone like strong willed people like Zero or Kaname who are used to hiding their thirst better it should be harder for her. Also we see Zero in the past chapter had to leave the academy because of his desire getting the best of him. He hid it well till he was outside but it was still there and we know he takes blood pills too. So unless she switched pills with him too it follows that blood pills isn't a cureall for their urges.


    oh, so you claim this? where's your proof? did you know this is actually what conjecture looks like?

    Well basically I just basically changed around a few details but just take proof for this theory and changing it around and call it evidence. It'll be just as sound.


    I think I laid on my views here clearly. I'll just avoid all the childish goading. If you have disagreements with my reasoning please let me know.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by rumland on Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:08 pm

    sweetsolace wrote:
    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?
    - unanswered, until now.
    There is still no actual prof they are not working, only that they are not working for a prolonged amount of time. Also to date and correct me if I am wrong here, but yuki has taken a total of 4 tablets in the last 2 days in the story, 3 the night before and 1 the day she meets yori and zero drags her to the woods. Tablets are ment to be taken as food, (if oyu want the refrence just ask) and yuki has only taken 1 that day that we know of. Not to mention all the emotional stuff yuki is going thru that day.
    Being face to face with her best friend, having takuma talk to her about sara and the blood tablets, seeing zero carrying maria in his arms as she clinged to him. Realizeing she wants blood but she cant have it since the one she is ALLOWED to feed on is not there. So in this 1 day alone we have yuki haveing feelings of joy (yori) Fear (wanting to feed on yori) anger (sara) jelousy (zero carrying maria) Yearning (for blood and for kaname). Adding that all up and taking into account she only took 1 tablet that day after meeting with yori I dont see anything abnormal about her hunger.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:53 pm

    S_R wrote:
    sweetsolace wrote:
    WHY are the blood tablets not working? It's her first time taking it and its not having an effect? How can you explain this?

    I'll just avoid all your rhetoric and stick to the facts here.

    facts? what facts?
    my questions are questions they are not rhetorics and you've been avoiding answering them since I started asking.

    I don't believe they aren't working. You say it having no effect but I say that it is.
    I can understand why you would assert they aren't working but as I said before I don't believe they completely kill the desire for blood.
    .

    We know that the blood of your loved one is one of the most enticing
    and desired thing. Now Yuuki is bad around two people she loves, Yori
    and Zero, that desire is certainly going to pick up? Correct? Now unlike
    someone like strong willed people like Zero or Kaname who are used to
    hiding their thirst better it should be harder for her. Also we see Zero
    in the past chapter had to leave the academy because of his desire
    getting the best of him. He hid it well till he was outside but it was
    still there and we know he takes blood pills too. So unless she switched
    pills with him too it follows that blood pills isn't a cureall for
    their urges.

    You're talking about desire, I'm talking about hunger. I have no problem with Yuki desiring Zero's blood, but if her craving is due to hunger (not desire) then this might have affected her taking Zero's blood, Zero also noted she looks crazy without blood.
    The hunger for blood is different from desire of blood

    DESIRE- with desire there are feelings involved such as drinking someone's blood because they are loved, this is how Zero bit Yuki before they parted, it was desire for her blood.
    HUNGER- In the first arc Zero bit Yuki out of sustenance to his hunger to prevent himself from falling to lvl e.
    He also said in ch50 that being a level e and being a vampire are closely related because of their need for blood, here he implies that lvl e hungers for blood restlessly, while vampires desire for blood every now and then however its not necessary.

    Desire and hunger, then, are two different things.

    Therefore, you cannot kill the desire in a vampire, as long as they have feelings for that person. Kaname says this as a pureblood they need another pureblood to last through the loneliness of living.
    While with level E, hunger can only be tamed by taking blood or blood substitute. Zero relied mainly on Yuki's blood to keep his sanity intact until Kaname's blood delayed the lvl e.
    therefore, a vampire can survive even when assaulted with desire. its not life threatening.
    but a level e must find blood or they will lose control and killed or be killed.

    from the fanbook as posted by juliet earlier

    They (Vampires) love human blood. Vampires desire blood by instict. Those who lose their reason will drink so much blood from a human that the human dies.
    Vampires do not drink blood for sustenance. They drink blood because
    they want to. Therefore, vampires do not die even if they do not drink
    blood. Blood tablets are available nowadays, so these can be used instead of drinking human blood. But human blood is special to a vampire, and they react quickly to its smell.

    The urge to drink blood
    A strong desire to drink blood arises regularly. When vampires smell blood they suddenly desire it.

    Therefore, both desire and hunger can be calmed by taking blood tablets.

    As fanbook definition by juliet:
    Blood tablets
    Tablets that restrain the urge to drink blood.

    Yuki took 3-4 pills last night in ch72 because of her sudden urge to drink blood. Before that in chapter 71 she was thirsty but she didn't take tablets. So that means she can control her blood lust.
    The next day, after taking the pills she is hungry again when she smells Yori's blood... a human blood. She pounces on her, tells her she will take her blood someday. In my opinion there was no need to pounce on her if she just thought her blood smelled nice, but she did. Also if you reason out Yuki did that out of desire for her blood, that is possible but that also means the tablets she took last night had little effect on her desire simply because its acting up again at such short notice. Now right after she takes another tablet after this urge for yori's blood, yuki meets with zero and right there again zero notices that she is getting crazy because of blood deprivation (not a moment ago she just had a tablet).

    How then would you justify the effect of the blood tablets she just kept taking before? she continually has urges.


    Aidou still wanted blood from the girls even though he was taking blood pills and so did that boy who was chasing after the one day class girls also.
    that was Aido's way of flirting, he's a known womanizer and he shows this by luring girls to get their blood but it doesn't work even if he's serious about, which I doubt he is.

    rumland wrote:
    There is still no actual prof they are not working, only that they are not working for a prolonged amount of time.

    and there's no actual prof that they are not working for a prolonged amount of time either, in the fanbook it only says it removes the urge for blood.

    Also to date and correct me if I am wrong here, but yuki has taken a total of 4 tablets in the last 2 days in the story, 3 the night before and 1 the day she meets yori and zero drags her to the woods. Tablets are ment to be taken as food, (if oyu want therefrence just ask) and yuki has only taken 1 that day that we know of.

    tablets are like supplements but not food, they're only taken when they're needed. And they're needed when there's urge for blood.
    from fanbook as posted by juliet


    The urge to drink blood
    A strong desire to drink blood arises regularly. When vampires smell blood they suddenly desire it.

    Blood tablets
    Tablets that restrain the urge to drink blood.

    Not to mention all the emotional stuff yuki is going thru that day.
    Being face to face with her best friend, having takuma talk to her about sara
    and the blood tablets, seeing zero carrying maria in his arms as she clinged to him. Realizeing she wants blood but she cant have it since the one she is ALLOWED to feed on is not there. So in this 1 day alone we have yuki haveing feelings of joy (yori) Fear (wanting to feed on yori) anger (sara) jelousy (zero carrying maria) Yearning (for blood and for kaname). Adding that all up and taking into account she only took 1 tablet that day after meeting with yori I dont see anything abnormal about her hunger.
    you have a point there. the emotional stress was bound to catch up but i dont see how meeting with you bestfriend is stressful, her reaction also didnt show this stress. her meeting with takuma was not stressful either she merely suspected that takuma didn't trust sara. kaname's thoughts were already stressful to her but then again, there's the availability of the tablets just by common sense, if he's not available then the tablets are and she already took them last night. Seeing zero carrying maria can be stress for her, but he did not see her did he? and yuki even wondered why she had to hide from him. if he saw her that would be stressful.
    overall not enough to get her worked up and having urges again.
    we'll just have to agree to disagree.

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by juliet on Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:03 pm

    [quote="sweetsolace"]

    How then would you justify the effect of the blood tablets she just kept taking before? she continually has urges.

    [quote]

    Μ? perhaps she has urges indeed...its her urge-orgy time of the year? haha rofl rofl rofl you know like bitches but I do not remember the word they use - they are beasts after all but the one that would ALLOW it is not available so we are moving, to the next candidate... sorry I needed a dose of laugh...








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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by sweetsolace on Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:13 pm

    [quote="juliet"][quote="sweetsolace"]

    How then would you justify the effect of the blood tablets she just kept taking before? she continually has urges.


    Μ? perhaps she has urges indeed...its her urge-orgy time of the year? haha rofl rofl rofl you know like bitches but I do not remember the word they use - they are beasts after all but the one that would ALLOW it is not available so we are moving, to the next candidate... sorry I needed a dose of laugh...

    lol Zero as the next candidate, how very convenient. rofl And if Zero's gone there's still the third candidate, Yori. rofl now perhaps if zero and kaname leaves her, she would have a third blood source. and the next would be aido.. then kaien... and she will never get to use the blood tablets~
    sara's plan will fail

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    Re: sara's bloodtablets

    Post by juliet on Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:21 pm

    [quote="sweetsolace"][quote="juliet"]
    sweetsolace wrote:

    How then would you justify the effect of the blood tablets she just kept taking before? she continually has urges.


    Μ? perhaps she has urges indeed...its her urge-orgy time of the year? haha rofl rofl rofl you know like bitches but I do not remember the word they use - they are beasts after all but the one that would ALLOW it is not available so we are moving, to the next candidate... sorry I needed a dose of laugh...

    lol Zero as the next candidate, how very convenient. rofl And if Zero's gone there's still the third candidate, Yori. rofl now perhaps if zero and kaname leaves her, she would have a third blood source. and the next would be aido.. then kaien... and she will never get to use the blood tablets~
    sara's plan will fail

    Haha...Yuuki will go with the motto "I am new and innoncent, now make my urges come true..." ..

    rofl rofl rofl rofl no one escapes and all the NC students apparently become her harem...

    back to being serious the hunters as I said know that Sara is planning something with the tablets, so why are they allowing her entrance? Is it possible that Zero knows what Sara is up to (in some way?)? I mean in how much ignorance can the hunters be? Nobody noticed that the president was missing all that time?

    Another part which I found -perculiar -okay this one can not be helped but Takuma just says to Yuuki that Sara made tablets taste better -so anyone is allowed there to mess with the tablets? like anyone has the right to create tablets and release them in the market? isn't that surprising to that fact?







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