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    Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

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    sweetsolace
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    Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by sweetsolace on Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:55 am

    How do you judge his actions as
    -Hunter association president or figurehead? does he perform his responsibilities to his position? how about his performance?
    -Yuki's foster father? is he really being a good father to Yuki? Do you think there's more to his overprotectiveness?

    How do you judge how fair he deals with Kaname's situation VERSUS the events happening around him?

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by Akaruisama on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:42 am

    As the assossiation president Caien is not good enough. He allowed too many things happen because of his unwaverly faith in the possibility of co-excistance of these two races. Cross behaves as an observer, he doesn't interfere if he is not forced to do so.
    As Yuuki adoptive father Cross is weird. If he didn't trust Kaname why he let Yuuki go with him?. I think Cross treats Yuuki as her mother before. He loves her( of course in another way) but knows he is not supposed to stop her anyway. It is a reason he has not influenced her action before. But now something has changed. I think it's somehow connected with the shock he had when he understood how deeply Yuuki love Kaname and desperatetly she want to be with him.

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by Trinity on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:51 am

    He allowed too many things happen because of his unwaverly faith in the possibility of co-excistance of these two races.

    This and because he wanted to protect Yuuki and Zero and the school until the end, but he had also shown part of what he was doing was right as that she-male that was in the Association before hand was like a dirty cop XD

    Yuki's foster father? is he really being a good father to Yuki? Do you think there's more to his overprotectiveness?

    I think that with his confrontation with Kaname in the past chapter is really all just out of good intentions, he has seen the effect Kanames departure had on her and also the huge responsibility he has left on her shoulders and also because he is hunting and killing other purebloods he is just wanting to protect her as her father, someone who has raised her.

    I miss old happy go lucky Kaien though sometimes ;-; all the angst in this manga is killing me XDD

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by juliet on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:59 pm

    Kaien seems to have confused his priorities at the last chapter may I say...

    I will use the translation that Witlessfool made here (I do not think this part will be significantly changed at the Japanese translation)...

    Page Twenty-Eight
    Kaname, “Chairman Kaien... are you here as the chairman of the peace agreement association?”
    Kaien, “Also as Yuuki’s adoptive father. I’m here to inform you that I’ve already decided I will not be returning Yuuki to you.”
    Kaname looks down, “Yuuki is already walking her own path and living by her own decisions... Chairman Kaien.”

    Notice that to his meeting with Kaien, the first things that he says is that he is there as Yuuki's adoptive father and ge states that he will not be returning Yuuki to him. Why? (due to his actions I suppose?) but is that the priority of the president of the Hunter Association?

    May I also notice that two blogs away, just down the street Sara's tables are distributed while Kaien waits for Kaname to talk to him about Yuuki?

    -First of all who asked him ? as far as I recall, Yuuri handed the responsibility of Yuuki to Kaname and not Kaien, Kaname had no choice and she entrusted Yuuki to Cross...but now Yuuki has all of her memories back, she has in identity and also her legal guardian would be Kaname, not Cross.

    So I am wondering, apart from Cross apparent naivety, where the tablets are distributed under his nose and developed also under his nose, perhaps he has mixed not only his priorities but also his role?

    Thanks to Nina, for the idea, that's her in this remark actually but since I am writing this I said to incude it; Is Cross actions and his denial to give Yuuki to Kaname just a result from Kaname's current acts? (Killing the purebloods)....

    If we go back some chapters...

    Cross is the one that violently stops Yuuki from chasing Kaname (and perhaps stopping him)...

    Spoiler:

    Here he claims that Kaname is not the same person anymore but he loses the opportunity to find out more by releasing Yuuki...

    Spoiler:

    So what Kaien actually says, thus his reasons for stopping her is that her relationship with kaname is not simple anymore. So he admits that these two are a couple and he actually does not approve of that.

    Spoiler:

    He said that to Yuuki, now is Kaname's turn. So he recognizes that kaname's weak spot is Yuuki but has no intention of using her to learn more about kaname's plan, neither to stop him. Really what is Kaien Cross is doing for the co-existence? Apparently his priorities are different than what they should be.

    Plus the hunters that were watching Sara visiting the president of the phaurmaceutical company, had said that they would report her moves back at the HA. We had a disscusion about it at the thread "What the hunters Know"...

    Any ideas?






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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by aya-chan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:46 pm

    kaien is extremely changed compared with first arc. all he want is co-existence, but the dwy he tried to achive it it's strange (as his personality).

    In first arc he decided to accept ichiru in cross academy (after zero agreement) but that was only because of siblings love. he wanted to do something to help ichiru and zero to rebound their relationship. but ichiru did not come there with pure thoughts. ichiru was a the council spy. did not know kaien about it? i doubt it.

    In second arc, before the metting with kaname, kaien receive the order to not get close with kaname.

    kaien saw kaname killing aidou-dono. it is normal for him to doubt kaname. but he did something to find doubt why kaname did that? why kaname is killing the heads of PB? why kaname, the vampire who always wanted peace do something like this? of course he didn't.

    kaien treat kaname like the biggest criminal, but he allowed sara entrance into a place which should be peacefull. at the beggining, hunters kept their eyes on sara, but apparently since she is in academy they don't do it. and sara is able to do her moves right under their noses.

    kaien is busy talking/treating kaname and sara's "domination" pills will run free on the streets.

    kaien judgement seems to be affected by his feelings as a adoptive father, when he doesn't afford this luxary.
    He agreed with yuki's night class, he has a responsability for day class students. night class failure will be his failure too, not only yuuki's.

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by nina on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:52 pm

    @ Juliet and aya-chan I agree … Cross seems like he has screwed up his priorities and his roles here … Seems like his first anxiety is how to keep Yuuki afar from Kaname … and the worse is that he’s using his position as the head of the HA.
    But the question is; did Kaname quest her back??? Shocked On the contrary he thanks Cross for keeping her away … rofl rofl rofl
    OMG I cracking here rofl … you don’t know for how long I was craving to hear such words from Kaname … “I do not want her … you can keep her … returns I won’t accept

    Ok I’ll try my best to be serious here …

    The point is that, we had thus far many weird signals from Kaien about Yuuki but I thought it was ok … he wanted to protect her and through her to keep “alive” the contract for co-existence, until they sort out what’s exactly Kaname’s aiming for. But now I think his motive wasn’t so “pure” …

    Juliet wrote: May I also notice that two blogs away, just down the street Sara's tables are distributed while Kaien waits for Kaname to talk to him about Yuuki?

    aya-chan wrote: kaien treat kaname like the biggest criminal, but he allowed sara entrance into a place which should be peacefull. at the beggining, hunters kept their eyes on sara, but apparently since she is in academy they don't do it. and sara is able to do her moves right under their noses.

    That’s right … while his pointing his sword to Kaname, two blocks away Sara’s tablets are distributed on the “market” !!!! The very least Kaname is trying to protect humans whereas Sara turning humans into vampires and she is safe and sound in the academy with Cross’s blessing!
    That alone blackwashes Kaien …
    Is it possible that they do not have a clue that Sara has actualize her plans with the tablets???
    If Takuma was giving them the intel about Sara’s moves could be that he didn’t make it to inform them, so the last hint they had from Sara to be her visit at the pharmaceutical company??? I’ll leave it there for the time being …

    Juliet wrote:
    Is Cross actions and his denial to give Yuuki to Kaname just a result from Kaname's current acts? (Killing the purebloods)....

    If we go back some chapters...

    Cross is the one that violently stops Yuuki from chasing Kaname (and perhaps stopping him)...


    Right … and while I could justify his previous move to stop her for going after him, now it seems weird! Cuz here in the last chapter says that Kaname doesn’t want her by his side cuz she would be a hindrance to his plan! If he believes that Kaname is going to kill all the PBs, viz he is doing something terrible which he doesn’t approve and as the chairman of the HA has the obligation to stop him, in order to secure the co-existence, WHY he doesn’t let Yuuki to stop him??? Cuz indirectly says that Yuuki is Kaname’s soft spot … Also, how exactly did he plan to stop him since he went all alone there?

    Here he claims that Kaname is not the same person anymore but he loses the opportunity to find out more by releasing Yuuki...

    So what Kaien actually says, thus his reasons for stopping her is that her relationship with kaname is not simple anymore. So he admits that these two are a couple and he actually does not approve of that.

    With all the twists we have thus far, we could say that this ^^^ is possible …
    And if so how righteous is his motive huh?

    Now that I’m looking back I think Kaien was really shocked from Yuuki’s reaction after Kaname left her … and if so we have a big revelation here lol. Seems like he just realized that Yuuki’s relationship with Kaname isn’t any longer that simple >> what could he mean?

    Another interesting point IMO from the last chapter is his conversation with Zero…

    Kaien tells Zero, while watching him doing his job obediently that sees something from Yuuki in him >> probably meaning from the Yuuki when she was a prefect … right he turned his most powerful hunter into a prefect again and his happy about it Razz

    But the interesting thing though is how Zero is responding >>> that Yuuki is trying her hardest to do her job in the academy because she hasn’t any other choice >>> she has to do those things as Kaien wants!!! And this is something that Kaien had predicted!!!!! Kaien simply accepts Zero’s words … he can’t deny that Zero is telling the truth!!!

    Cross has “trap” Yuuki in the academy in order to stop her for going after Kaname … viz he had no intention from the very beginning to set her free! And this is something that seems Zero “accuses” Kaien for … >>>

    The weird thing is why Cross after Zero’s words about Yuuki turns the conversation over Kaname and reminds Zero that in the past he was craving to kill Kaname … Apparently he had no intention to take him over to Isaya’s house, cuz if so then he could have taken at least Kaito … But no, he goes alone. So how Kaname was inserted in their conversation in the first place???

    Ok my feeling is that Zero “accusing” indirectly Cross that he is using the NC as a pretence in order to stop Yuuki to go after Kaname >>> “she has no other choice as you predicted” !!! >>> and that’s why Cross picking up Zero’s cue and brings Kaname into their conversation!!!

    In “free translation”, there is a disapproval in Zero’s words about Cross’s methods and Cross inverts Zero’s words by saying … yeah but weren’t you the one who wanted to kill Kaname no matter what in the past??? What changed now and you are disapproving me for trying by any mean to keep Yuuki afar from Kaname?

    Also note that isn’t the first time that Zero suggested Cross to let Yuuki free … He did the same thing prior the re-opening of the NC …

    Zero: You’ve been letting her wander around freely … if your objective is to lure Kuran out from hiding then just make her go find him …
    Cross: Yuuki will not chase Kaname for now …
    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/70/16

    … but apparently Cross, had no intention to set her free… Therefore … is he acting professionally here as the chairman of the HA or his personal desires are leading him? And if it’s the later, how possible is that his judgement/actions to be proved wrong in the future???

    And something lastly … I’ve never understood why Cross had to hide himself from Yuuki when she went to Isaya’s place as a reaper?? Isaya asked him about it and Cross said >>> “If she were to know that you and I are old friends, it might influence her way of seeing things”
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-47679-9/vampire-knight/chapter-58.html

    Why? How could influence Yuuki’s view if she knew that Cross has as an old friend a PB? <<< this isn’t the meaning of co-existence??? Shocked confused







    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*

    sweetsolace
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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by sweetsolace on Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:42 pm

    let's see... narrating what Kaien contributed so far to his role in the second arc:

    as a figurehead/HA president:
    I don't know how being a "figurehead" functions but I think Kaien also serves part of the role being HA president since he presides over meetings with treaties (chapter 53) and he decides on the verdict.
    so let's see...
    >incident at the ball- the hunters did not do further investigations on the case
    >finding out more about Sara's harem- since Zero failed arresting Sara, he took Aido for questioning and interrogation instead for Kaname's relation to Sara despite the fact what Kaien knows about Kaname. Again Kaien is lacking common sense here. But so far he never questioned or wondered about Kaname ever since the news of his murder of the council reached him. So it makes me wonder how he views Kaname. Did it just switched back to being strangers between them?
    >seeing Kaname killing Aido-dono and Hanadagi -again, Kaien's actions seem either too personal or protocol. Just like Juliet said it seems he's protecting his interests rather than exploring the issue further. So he prevented Yuki from chasing after Kaname, and the reason was? "because he's the foster parent" it seems he forgot all about being HA president or hunter at that moment and instead became a "foster parent" and a mediator between Yuki and Kaname's lovelife. So yes nina is right he is mixing stuff here. For example as a hunter he should begin with the question WHY and he actually begun with the phrase: "I can't seem to think of any other reason why Kaname would do that!" affraid
    >Sara's tablets - again, nothing was done here, we all just saw the hunter outside the building saying something about it but what exactly happened there? there's so much lack of action from the hunters towards Sara's case so exactly what are they planning to do with her? confused Kaien on the other hand, takes Sara's words as it is and does not even bother to question WHY she should be trusted. He does not bother with anything else not even suspecting her? confused it all seems like it lacks due process. And furthermore, he LETS her stay inside the academy basically because she just begged for protection, and basically ignores her??

    >Yuki's night class
    he allowed her to start the night class as Kuran representative?? confused Before that Yuki said "Please don't stop me, I'm going to go after Kaname to find out more about the truth, I will ask for it myself" And Kaien's response to that was, "Do you know that as a Kuran its your duty to continue Kaname's works?" He basically stopped her from going after Kaname by giving her something to do. But again how is that related to Kaien functioning as president of the hunters? it doesnt make much sense since he is the first to accuse Kaname being a criminal without considering his motives, and then he actually CARES about Kaname's works NOW??
    I smell a petty excuse.
    and more than that Kaien ordered Zero to watch Yuki in the night class despite there's virtually no reason to have her guarded, not even listening to their protests. confused what is he scheming here? are his intentions personal or is it related to something else not yet revealed? scratch
    either he is working on something deeper here or he's intentionally serving as the bridge to Yuki and Zero reconciling, which means he's ignoring his job and he's being personal.

    as a foster father to Yuki

    juliet wrote:Notice that to his meeting with Kaien, the first things that he says is that he is there as Yuuki's adoptive father and ge states that he will not be returning Yuuki to him. Why? (due to his actions I suppose?) but is that the priority of the president of the Hunter Association?

    LOL actually it was Kaname who corrected him.
    Kaname: are you here as the president of the hunter's association?
    Kaien: No, I'm here as Yuki's adoptive father.

    so there Kaname was already trying to explain the odd behavior rofl Kaien seems to be mixing his roles and priorities.

    juliet wrote:-First of all who asked him ? as far as I recall, Yuuri handed the responsibility of Yuuki to Kaname and not Kaien, Kaname had no choice and she entrusted Yuuki to Cross...but now Yuuki has all of her memories back, she has in identity and also her legal guardian would be Kaname, not Cross.
    the part that baffles me is he deliberately casts Yuki AWAY from Kaname and he deliberately creates reasons so she can't go after him. Now he's telling him he can't "return" her to him because she will become a hindrance to his plans.
    But who said Kaname was even going to take Yuki from him? He actually thanked Kaien for keeping her out of the way. Still I don't see why the sword pointing is necessary. :/

    juliet wrote:May I also notice that two blogs away, just down the street Sara's tables are distributed while Kaien waits for Kaname to talk to him about Yuuki?
    what bothers me more is how did Kaien know Kaname was going for Isaya's place next? His timing was too..timely. so far I've seen him he's always behind his desk now he's going out of town as if he senses Kaname's presence?? confused
    and just to say that he's not going to return Yuki?? Again, who asked him? he did not even bother asking Kaname any question at all and now he's declaring he's not going to return Yuki?.

    aya-chan wrote:kaien judgement seems to be affected by his feelings as a adoptive father, when he doesn't afford this luxary.
    He agreed with yuki's night class, he has a responsability for day class students. night class failure will be his failure too, not only yuuki's.
    I agree, definitely it seems his feelings is affecting his job. And its mostly what he's doing.

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by juliet on Fri Aug 19, 2011 11:37 pm

    Could kaien be playing his own game here? I now it sounds rushed to reach such a conclusion but the more his approach of things revolves in my mind, the worst it becomes...

    what bothers me more is how did Kaien know Kaname was going for Isaya's place next? His timing was too..timely. so far I've seen him he's always behind his desk now he's going out of town as if he senses Kaname's presence??

    As Mariangie had mentioned, kaien seems to be aware of Kaname's plan (partly), perhaps he suspects that Kaname is targeting only to the heads of the remaining pureblood families, but then he is letting the hunters believe that Kaname is after all the purebloods (as he stated to Zero?) and also plays it more innoncent towards Kaname?

    I am going to be reserved here due to translation but your question is certainly justified along with Nina's remark above; if Kaien wanted to capture there and stop Kaname, why is he heading there on his own?

    Perhaps because as he said to Kaname, he appears there as Yuuki's adoptive father and not as the HA presindent.

    So why didn't he involved the hunters in there? because his intention was not to prevent Kaname but just warn him that he is not willing to give Yuuki back to him and also take a personal risk of stopping him?

    What kind of moves are they coming from the president of the HA' hunter? Really, I do not understand his certain approach towards Kaname, neither why he leaves the hunters out of the game at that certain moment.








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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by Fallen Leaf on Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:41 am

    I believe that Kaien's definitely having difficulty being one or the other (Yuki's adoptive father or HA President). The issue I believe is and I know that some of you have previously said it is that he is torn between both sides. He was a hunter before Yuki came along but then he raised Yuki when Kaname asked him to look over her. His roles became crossed obviously before Yuki came into the picture because he was friends or at least acquaintances with Kaname and they both had a mutual respect for each other. Either way, Kaien had known a lot of what had happened before Yuki came to him, so he had to have known that yes, Yuki is a human right now but she really isn't a human.

    He is a good father to her, he does protect her but also lets her experience things. But when it's obvious when everything with Kaname happens he's quick to jump into the father role that he once had. He definitely fills that well but it also doesn't help him with being the HA President since his "daughter" is a pure blood vampire. Part of me still thinks that the Association is waiting for some sort of mess up so that they can blame Kaien even more than when the whole thing went down at the Academy.

    It all comes down to heart vs. head/responsibility but I feel like no matter what he is always going to support Yuki and take care of her no matter what. He feels like it's his job as her "father" and he obviously loves her.

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by MoonKnight on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:14 pm

    One of my fellow cosplayer loves this character a lot. as in everytime there is an event Kaien Cross has been always his sort! gee. anyway he did looks like him everytime. anyway. i do believe kaien's has a secret.
    also i want to ask if it is true? i've read the latest chapter of this anime and there's a lot of things going on. and when i ask a group on facebook one of the members answered me a very confusing one. as in! i can't get it myself

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by MoonKnight on Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:17 pm

    One of my fellow cosplayer loves this character a lot. as in everytime there is an event Kaien Cross has been always his sort! gee. anyway he did looks like him everytime. anyway. i do believe kaien's has a secret.
    also i want to ask if it is true? i've read the latest chapter of this anime and there's a lot of things going on. and when i ask a group on facebook one of the members answered me a very confusing one. as in! i can't get it myself

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    Re: Kaien's actions (in the second arc)

    Post by KuranPrince on Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:06 am

    MoonKnight wrote:One of my fellow cosplayer loves this character a lot. as in everytime there is an event Kaien Cross has been always his sort! gee. anyway he did looks like him everytime. anyway. i do believe kaien's has a secret.
    also i want to ask if it is true? i've read the latest chapter of this anime and there's a lot of things going on. and when i ask a group on facebook one of the members answered me a very confusing one. as in! i can't get it myself


    MoonKnight... you're not allowed to do multiple postings here at this forum. The mods or admin have the authority to edit and/or remove your comments. Instead, you should edit your comment and add more... simple as that.

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