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    What is Isaya’s role?

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    nina
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    What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by nina on Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:08 pm

    Do you think there is any mystery into Isaya’s life/role? Will he participate more active in the story? Could it be that he has his own agenda? What do you think it’s gonna be his role?

    *********************

    Ok here is my take.

    I was thinking that Isaya is a chara that has been introduced really early but thus far every scene we had with him didn’t lead to anything. I mean seems like his appearance was almost meaningless. But since I think that Hino has a very specific plan for the development, there must to be a hidden reason behind him or for his early appearance.
    So let’s see what we know for him.

    1. If I recall well the first reference to his name was in Kaien’s recollection about a confronting he had with Juri >>>





    Juri says that she wanted to protect Isaya’s territory. So we can speculate that the Kurans were in good terms with Isaya’s family or perhaps even allies. ???

    Questions:
    - Why there was a need for protection and from whom?
    - Could it be that Isaya was again in slumber back then?

    2. Then Isaya has been introduced properly in chapters 57-58.

    Observations:

    - He was in slumber for 50 years but he awakened around the ball’s time, viz when the real action started. Coincidence???
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v12/c057/32.html

    - He is an old friend with Kaien and seems like he knows a lot about him since he knew his feelings for Juri among other things as well.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v12/c058/8.html

    - He became a spectator after his wife sacrificed her life to turn their children into humans.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v12/c058/10.html

    Questions:

    - Why his wife made that choice? She just “hated” the PB’s nature or she was driven there out of necessity? Could it be cuz she wanted to protect their children; something similar with what Juri did for Yuuki? And when did that happened? He says early and he is 2000 years old. So it was when the Kurans were ruling or the senate?
    Speculation:
    I have the feeling that it could be around the time Kaname had decide to go into his slumber … after that the senate took control most likely very soon. So could that Isaya’s family was running some dangers since there were Kurans’ allies? Since Kaname’s plan seems to have its root back at that era perhaps is possible that Isaya’s story has the same start point somehow.

    - Why he stayed behind? Why he didn’t sacrifice himself as well since we know that to spend the eternity without your lover is something almost unbearable. Furthermore he admits that he was a mere spectator … “I have too much time but no purpose …”
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v12/c058/11.html

    - So … is that the whole truth; or could he be expecting for something?
    Kaien “warned” him not to meddle in anything … why; since he said that is only a spectator??? The warning is a bit contradictory with Isaya’s life style, no?
    Also could his role be only that? A PB friend of Kaien who currently is Kaname’s target???? Seems unlikely to me … too simple.

    3. Isaya had received a note after Kaname had killed Hana and Aidou-dono.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c069/10.html

    - From whom he gets that note? And what was the content? It was from Kaien in order to inform him about Kaname’s doings as he did previously after Ouri’s murder? If so why Isaya’s says:
    “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.”
    - For the PBs is understandable, considering Kaname’s killings, but for the hunters why????
    - Could that note to have come from another source???

    4. Lastly … Kaname, Ruka and Kain were outside his house where Cross waited for Kaname.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v15/c074/29.html

    sweetsolace wrote: what bothers me more is how did Kaien know Kaname was going for Isaya's place next? His timing was too..timely. so far I've seen him he's always behind his desk now he's going out of town as if he senses Kaname's presence??

    Right … how? Could Kaien’s right timing to have to do with Isaya? How he figured out that Kaname’s next stop was Isaya? He isn’t the only PB that left alive … Furthermore since Kaien knew that there was a “friendly” connection between the Kurans and Isaya why he says that it was about time for Kaname to go there? Cross accused Kaname that his plan is to eliminate all the PBs, so why not to go at Touma’s house for example, since they had already a confrontation in the past???
    Could be the piece that we are missing to have to do with Isaya in particular; something that Cross knows?

    OR Kaname didn’t go there to kill Isaya in the first place? The whole scene with Ruka and Kain outside Isaya’s door … then the small talk between Kaname and Ruka … the scenery doesn’t have similarities with Kaname’s previous acts … just saying lol.

    Speculation: Could it be that Kaname wants Isaya to be involved into his plan? If there is something that connects the two families –the Kurans and Isaya’s – and Cross knows it, then perhaps that’s why warned him not to involve in anything …
    Isaya had no interest thus far but what if all the action that we are seeing currently has to do with the past and now Isaya has a reason to get involved? After all Kaname’s plan has its root back into his ancestral times …

    Or Isaya’s role isn’t as passive as it seems???

    Idk … I’m lost … Any ideas???






    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by aya-chan on Sat Sep 03, 2011 2:03 pm

    I think isaya will have a role in the future. for now is existence seems unimportante, but hino gave him some space in her story.

    Questions:
    - Why there was a need for protection and from whom?
    - Could it be that Isaya was again in slumber back then?

    Isaya was in slumber when juuri had that confrontation with kaien. isaya was a pureblood who entered in slumber prety often but for short time: 50 years.

    From who she wanted to protect? while a PB is in slumber he's more vulnearable, so maybe she wanted to protect him by the vampire council. moreover, and in that period of time in his teritry were problems.

    He is an old friend with Kaien and seems like he knows a lot about him since he knew his feelings for Juri among other things as well.

    The question is why isaya and kaien were friend even in the time when kaien hated PB's? In one of the chapters, kaien say he often go pick fights with isaya and from isaya he found out about juuri.
    That pick fights with him doesn't have a serious conatation, like he was there to kill isaya, it seems more like a training.
    Kaien hated PB's, but he didn't hate one PB:isaya.

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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 03, 2011 3:47 pm

    Juri says that she wanted to protect Isaya’s territory. So we can speculate that the Kurans were in good terms with Isaya’s family or perhaps even allies. ???

    Questions:
    - Why there was a need for protection and from whom?
    - Could it be that Isaya was again in slumber back then?

    - Why his wife made that choice? She just “hated” the PB’s nature or she was driven there out of necessity? Could it be cuz she wanted to protect their children; something similar with what Juri did for Yuuki? And when did that happened? He says early and he is 2000 years old. So it was when the Kurans were ruling or the senate?

    well from the way he mentioned it in chapter 58, he said his wife decided to turn their offspring back to human, so they just had one child as the word was in singular form, one human child for one sacrifice, that is the life of his wife.

    I think this may be connected to the reason why Isaya's wife sacrificed her life to turn their child to human. There could be any reason why she did it, however she apparently did it "early" in their marriage, so they haven't live to their ripe "old age" yet as Juri and Haruka did when she did it. Therefore the reason must have been of an urgent nature... or those were urgent times and they were being hunted by the Council dogs---in that chapter where Juri went to check on Isaya's territory, Juri brought her weapon with her, she knew she would be expecting enemies around. anyway its just a guess

    Also it seems from the way he had said it, after watching his human child grow old and pass away from old age, he became a "spectator". Maybe he was watching over their child grow up normally and free from harm, before his death made him decide he was going to be a spectator?

    Whoever their child is, he/she is already dead. So the theory Kaien is their child is not true.

    - Why he stayed behind? Why he didn’t sacrifice himself as well since we know that to spend the eternity without your lover is something almost unbearable. Furthermore he admits that he was a mere spectator … “I have too much time but no purpose …”
    I think they only had one child and his wife was the one who decided she would do it. Deciding to become a spectator was probably his motivating drive to keep on living without his loved one, or maybe there's more. Razz which is what you said:

    3. Isaya had received a note after Kaname had killed Hana and Aidou-dono.
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c069/10.html

    - From whom he gets that note? And what was the content? It was from Kaien in order to inform him about Kaname’s doings as he did previously after Ouri’s murder? If so why Isaya’s says:
    “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.”
    - For the PBs is understandable, considering Kaname’s killings, but for the hunters why????
    - Could that note to have come from another source???

    brilliant observation there! Very Happy Razz rofl seriously this tiny details can be easily overlooked... I doubt he had just read that from the newspaper. Although it is possible he had, it is after all his motivating drive to live on as the spectator and he might know more than he shows the events happening outside...

    However let's take a closer look at that envelope lying on the table... The note or the letter came from that envelope with a wax seal on it, which means its a formal letter from someone...
    If I recall its either Kaname who uses this form of communication as their family has a crest for that, or some company, perhaps the hunter's association?

    hm Im leaning more to Kaname, he seems to be the type to send this kind of information so formally, plus it has a seal. Razz This is usually how I see the royal families send their letters. Razz I imagine the HA letters would have used glue, instead of wax to seal the letter Razz lol.

    Could be the piece that we are missing to have to do with Isaya in particular; something that Cross knows?

    OR Kaname didn’t go there to kill Isaya in the first place? The whole scene with Ruka and Kain outside Isaya’s door … then the small talk between Kaname and Ruka … the scenery doesn’t have similarities with Kaname’s previous acts … just saying lol.

    I share this thought, there's something amiss with the scenario. for one, if Kaname's aim is to get rid of Isaya, he would be marching to that house and waste no time telling Ruka or Kain to evacuate the humans nearby, as he was there for Isaya.
    Second, Kain and Ruka were clearly uninvolved with what Kaname plans to execute by himself, as Kain individually set out on his own when he saw the tablets distribution even without Kaname's supervision. Perhaps he knew what was going on, and he was given something like this order: "Nothing must go against the plan" and he was going there to check if something can go wrong?
    Third, why evacuate the humans nearby? and why only humans? I dont think it has to do with killing Isaya, IF Kaname plans to do that, surely he can do a quiet job if he wanted to and no one will hear. So I assume it has to do with the approaching lava flow, or something else, that might be beyond human capabilities to handle and they might die amidst the execution of his plans. I think this is moer in tune with Kaname's character.. at least. His business has always been with vampires.

    Speculation: Could it be that Kaname wants Isaya to be involved into his plan? If there is something that connects the two families –the Kurans and Isaya’s – and Cross knows it, then perhaps that’s why warned him not to involve in anything …
    Isaya had no interest thus far but what if all the action that we are seeing currently has to do with the past and now Isaya has a reason to get involved? After all Kaname’s plan has its root back into his ancestral times …
    I definitely think there is a connection, as juri had said. Kurans and Shoutous seem to be on friendly terms with each other, as in watching each others backs and helping each other like neighbors would. A family bond like this probably goes way back and this tie is hardly severed so easily.
    I assume maybe Kaien knew this family bond between the two families and if anything should happen to the Kurans, the shoutou would also come to their aid, much like how Juri did when Shoutou was in trouble. Hence his comment.
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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by juliet on Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:32 pm

    Isaya…

    So to sum up what we know here about Isaya:
    1. Certainly order than 50 years old.
    2. Had been in slumber for the last 50 years.
    3. He ended up alone because his wife turned human their offspring and sacrificed herself; these before Isaya went into slumber.
    4. His child is dead.
    5. He is peaceful and has a long friendship with Kaien (one of the few purebloods that kaien hanged out with).
    6. Isaya knew Kaien, before Kaien met Yuuri.
    7. The Kurans and Shoutou were in good terms.
    8. Isaya seemed to live peacefully.
    9. He is also aware of Kaien’s curse.
    10. He wakes up after the ball that Kaname gave for the HA.

    - Why his wife made that choice? She just “hated” the PB’s nature or she was driven there out of necessity? Could it be cuz she wanted to protect their children; something similar with what Juri did for Yuuki? And when did that happened? He says early and he is 2000 years old. So it was when the Kurans were ruling or the senate?

    The senate probably…and one reason I speculate the Senate, it is due to the parallelism there with Yuuri’s story.
    As Haruka was explaining to Kaname, when he was protesting of closing Yuuki in the house: “Nowadays, the senate is trying to control our existence, as well as the power of our blood. We can resist them, of course, but Yuuki is still young, I do not want everything to do with them.”

    Now this is a general assumption of what might be the cause that Isaya’s wife also chose to make their offspring human. Of course for Yuuri, it took another visible threat; Rido. So could that be another hidden threat also in Isaya’s case? A pureblood that could evade them, trying to gain control for the Senate’s reasons, over them? Or in general the threat that the Senate posed?\

    In overall Isaya’s case is also a reminder that a vampire society is not ideal, rather full of threats and manipulations that the elders try to free their children from, asking for a society within their children can live a mortal, yet carefree life.

    I have the feeling that it could be around the time Kaname had decide to go into his slumber … after that the senate took control most likely very soon. So could that Isaya’s family was running some dangers since there were Kurans’ allies?

    Sounds possible too…but the Kurans (Rido’s father) voluntarily passed their power to the Senate, so that all vampires could have a speech. The power was misused by the Senate and as I understand, there were efforts made so that the Senate could control the purebloods. So under this view, there were families that resisted the control (even though for obvious reasons they did not turn against them), so Isaya’s family featuring the monarch fraction, could be in the long term be also a target of the Senate’s games. At least that’s where my mind travels for the time being.

    Why he stayed behind? Why he didn’t sacrifice himself as well since we know that to spend the eternity without your lover is something almost unbearable.


    I guess he had to stay behind and look after the offspring, even under these conditions. It’s logical to know that at least at the first years, the child would be safe and would have a normal life. Until he learned that his offspring passed away. And until that time Isaya had remained a mere spectator…

    - So … is that the whole truth; or could he be expecting for something?
    Kaien “warned” him not to meddle in anything … why; since he said that is only a spectator??? The warning is a bit contradictory with Isaya’s life style, no?
    It is but being a spectator does not change the fact that Isaya still has time to be involved and to get in the middle of things. Kaien’s message seems to be of prevention: “The hunters are upset, stay away…” but on the other hand knowing now Kaien’s lack of action with Sara (who is meddling with everything here), the whole thing sounds weird. Perhaps Kaien senses something…

    If I could connect them logically then I would say that Isaya wake up after Kaname’s is officialy recognized as the top vampire. From there on, since Isaya belongs to monarch’s supporter (thus his alliance with Yuuri), he might well be expecting that Kaname may ask him to contribute in his plans and so he will need to take a step again into action but now the senate has been cleared and the way for reformation is again open.
    Perhaps Kaien senses exactly that after their little talk and feels that he should warn his friend not to get involved in anything concerning power. M…(conspirancy theories are rolling in my mind) but I leave it up to here.
    I am out of time so I will continue later…






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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by nina on Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:28 pm

    aya-chan wrote: From who she wanted to protect? while a PB is in slumber he's more vulnearable, so maybe she wanted to protect him by the vampire council. moreover, and in that period of time in his teritry were problems.

    I agree. Most likely at that time the senate was in charge in vampires’ society, but the nobles couldn’t harm a PB. So if Isaya was in any danger that would come from PBs … maybe the ones who were in coactions with the senate??? Rido was, Sara as well, so it’s quite possible that there were some others too.

    The question is why isaya and kaien were friend even in the time when kaien hated PB's? In one of the chapters, kaien say he often go pick fights with isaya and from isaya he found out about juuri.
    That pick fights with him doesn't have a serious conatation, like he was there to kill isaya, it seems more like a training.
    Kaien hated PB's, but he didn't hate one PB:isaya.

    This is also a bit vague … they were friends back then or they became later when Cross changed his view about vampires?
    We have seen him to attack Juri at least twice and Juri questioned him about it >>>

    “What change of heart has made you try to kill me just now? You know well I don’t do the type of things that would get me in the hunters’ execution list.”
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-17/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

    So I have the feeling that he switched views completely, recently … around the time when Juri was pregnant to Yuuki. I think it was then when Cross decided to open his academy and adopted the co-existence idea, viz accepting the PBs. Also that could be assumed from the fact that Isaya didn’t know about Cross’s change … seems like he found out when he woke from his slumber.

    sweetsolace wrote: well from the way he mentioned it in chapter 58, he said his wife decided to turn their offspring back to human, so they just had one child as the word was in singular form, one human child for one sacrifice, that is the life of his wife.

    Oops! Embarassed You’re totally right … I’ve misread it as offspring(s), so I was under the impression that they had two children lol.

    I think this may be connected to the reason why Isaya's wife sacrificed her life to turn their child to human. There could be any reason why she did it, however she apparently did it "early" in their marriage, so they haven't live to their ripe "old age" yet as Juri and Haruka did when she did it. Therefore the reason must have been of an urgent nature... or those were urgent times and they were being hunted by the Council dogs---in that chapter where Juri went to check on Isaya's territory, Juri brought her weapon with her, she knew she would be expecting enemies around. anyway its just a guess

    juliet wrote: The senate probably…and one reason I speculate the Senate, it is due to the parallelism there with Yuuri’s story.
    As Haruka was explaining to Kaname, when he was protesting of closing Yuuki in the house: “Nowadays, the senate is trying to control our existence, as well as the power of our blood. We can resist them, of course, but Yuuki is still young, I do not want everything to do with them.”

    Now this is a general assumption of what might be the cause that Isaya’s wife also chose to make their offspring human. Of course for Yuuri, it took another visible threat; Rido. So could that be another hidden threat also in Isaya’s case? A pureblood that could evade them, trying to gain control for the Senate’s reasons, over them? Or in general the threat that the Senate posed?\


    Yes that’s what I was thinking too … the word “early” gives another perspective into Isaya’s wife sacrifice. If it wasn’t something “urging” or “compulsory” why they had made a child in the first place? I mean if she didn’t like the nature of the PBs’ life why she did get pregnant; just to sacrifice her life after a while?

    That’s why I’m also leaning towards the option that she had to use that spell and I suppose not for a trivial reason … the senate and the PBs who were pro-senate could be the threat that Isaya’s wife wanted to protect her child from! Note that we don’t know anything for Hana and Hiou’s role yet …

    sweetsolace wrote: Also it seems from the way he had said it, after watching his human child grow old and pass away from old age, he became a "spectator". Maybe he was watching over their child grow up normally and free from harm, before his death made him decide he was going to be a spectator?

    I agree … it’s very logical that he wanted to watch over his child, to reassure his/her safety. Lol imagine how painful that could be though … his child most likely wouldn’t recognize him as father … very sad. So again that decision couldn’t have been taken with light heart …
    But the question remains … since all of that must have happened long time ago, maybe even a millennium back … after his child’s death why he didn’t go into an eternal slumber for example?
    The whole idea of the spectator in the sidelines of life for such amount of time, somehow doesn’t fit with what we know for the PBs’ nature …

    However let's take a closer look at that envelope lying on the table... The note or the letter came from that envelope with a wax seal on it, which means its a formal letter from someone...
    If I recall its either Kaname who uses this form of communication as their family has a crest for that, or some company, perhaps the hunter's association?

    hm Im leaning more to Kaname, he seems to be the type to send this kind of information so formally, plus it has a seal. Razz This is usually how I see the royal families send their letters. Razz I imagine the HA letters would have used glue, instead of wax to seal the letter Razz lol.

    ROFL … “the hunters would have used glue” hahaha Razz

    I have told you before … you have a hawk-eye … I hadn’t seen the envelope lol.
    Yes it’s true … Kaname uses sealing wax … I remembered the invitation he had sent to Sara and to Takuma for the ball … there is a seal on the envelope >>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-32/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

    But more importantly … I don’t think that Cross wishes to advertise his friendship with Isaya viz with a PB. The rest of the hunters aren’t seeing that kind of friendships casually. So I think he wouldn’t use the HA’s seal … If the note was coming from him I think it would be an unofficial one. Is he using a sealing wax? Idk … haha maybe we are reading too much in this, but well Razz

    Third, why evacuate the humans nearby? and why only humans? I dont think it has to do with killing Isaya, IF Kaname plans to do that, surely he can do a quiet job if he wanted to and no one will hear. So I assume it has to do with the approaching lava flow, or something else, that might be beyond human capabilities to handle and they might die amidst the execution of his plans. I think this is moer in tune with Kaname's character.. at least. His business has always been with vampires.

    That crossed my mind too … the lava could be a good reason for the evacuation. Except if the evacuation have to do with Sara’s tabs … but since Kain seems to be surprised from the distribution that is weaker for now.

    If Kaname didn’t go there to kill Isaya then I’m thinking the alternative … the cooperation which can be connected with the note. If Kaname wants Isaya’s collaboration then is logical to have sent him a note where he would explain to him his “role” hence the phase “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.” … cuz if the note was from Cross and Isaya had foreseen something bad for the hunters, shouldn’t warn Cross???

    Also his servant says “But not you Isaya sama” … is it me or both of their looks are a bit peculiar??? Like as … he is “safe” … nobody can suspect/accuse him??? confused
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c069/10.html

    So I’m thinking two scenarios:
    - Or the note was from Kaname but Isaya didn’t agree and informed Cross hence Cross was there on the right time to “catch” Kaname …
    - Or the note was again from Kaname and that’s why he didn’t say nothing to Cross to warn him about the hunters’ reputation … (so how Kaien was there is still a mystery)
    -Or the note was from Cross and all the above are mumbo-jumbo rofl
    Lol I don’t know if I make any sense here Razz

    juliet wrote: It is but being a spectator does not change the fact that Isaya still has time to be involved and to get in the middle of things. Kaien’s message seems to be of prevention: “The hunters are upset, stay away…” but on the other hand knowing now Kaien’s lack of action with Sara (who is meddling with everything here), the whole thing sounds weird. Perhaps Kaien senses something…

    Time he certainly has, but as he characterized himself as a spectator gives the vibe that he isn’t interesting … he has no motivation to get involved into anything.

    Now here what I’m thinking about Isaya’s story currently Razz

    He married and got a child in more peaceful times. From the hints we have here and there, that could have happened when Kaname was the king. Then something terrible occurred >>> Kaname’s grief >>> Kaname went into slumber and the throne passed to his son. But we have no clue for how long his son ruled. The fact is that eventually the leadership passed over to the senate.
    Also we don’t know why the Kurans stepped down from the throne … was because they wanted to try a different system, more “democratic” or also cuz they were worn out from the “games” of power which brought to them many tragedies?
    Either way the fact is that the Kurans weren’t under good terms with the senate and probably the same goes for their allies as well.

    The senate probably…and one reason I speculate the Senate, it is due to the parallelism there with Yuuri’s story.
    As Haruka was explaining to Kaname, when he was protesting of closing Yuuki in the house: “Nowadays, the senate is trying to control our existence, as well as the power of our blood. We can resist them, of course, but Yuuki is still young, I do not want everything to do with them.”

    Exactly …

    So I’m guessing … or Isaya’s wife turned their child right after Kaname’s slumber (if his tragedy wasn’t only personal but was also in greater scale … he had said that at that time he had none ally but himself) or after the senate took control and started the “witch-hunt” …

    In any case what I’m trying to say is that Isaya’s story could be related with the Kurans … could they have a common root for their tragedy; viz commons threats?
    If so then Isaya it might have every reason now to want to involve thus and Cross’s warning, or Kaname’s visit at his house. almost..





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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by sweetsolace on Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:07 pm

    juliet wrote:Now this is a general assumption of what might be the cause that Isaya’s wife also chose to make their offspring human. Of course for Yuuri, it took another visible threat; Rido. So could that be another hidden threat also in Isaya’s case? A pureblood that could evade them, trying to gain control for the Senate’s reasons, over them? Or in general the threat that the Senate posed?
    \

    nina wrote:Yes that’s what I was thinking too … the word “early” gives another perspective into Isaya’s wife sacrifice. If it wasn’t something “urging” or “compulsory” why they had made a child in the first place? I mean if she didn’t like the nature of the PBs’ life why she did get pregnant; just to sacrifice her life after a while?

    The whole idea of the spectator in the sidelines of life for such amount of time, somehow doesn’t fit with what we know for the PBs’ nature …

    this is a lonnng shot. XD somehow I'll try to theorize why Isaya decided to become a spectator, or what happened to his family

    perhaps we can assume it was something that nobody expected would happen, but it was being planned, just like Juri's decision to turn Yuki into a human? Maybe Isaya's wife had the same decision just like juri, "to give her another chance to life", and the trigger for the shoutou's there, equivalent of Rido's attack to the Kuran home, had been something else? something sudden?

    we can assume pureblood life back in those days had been rough while they were under the control of the council. The saying that Sara said, "If you behave to the council, they wont turn their bad side on you" therefore anyone who goes against the council will suffer repercussion. Its a guess, without proof, but perhaps the Shoutou went against the council or did something wrong. And this caused them to be hunted down. So Isaya's wife turned their child to human, and Isaya witnessed their child growing old, finally he decided to become just a spectator, perhaps this decision was influenced by the events and he just decided now to "watch over things" than participate? when he participated it cost him the pain of turning their child to human and watching him die, so now he became a spectator?

    If Kaname didn’t go there to kill Isaya then I’m thinking the alternative … the cooperation which can be connected with the note. If Kaname wants Isaya’s collaboration then is logical to have sent him a note

    another thing is. IF that letter came from Kaname, then Kaname is informing him of the events, maybe as a friend or he finds a future use for Isaya, if so Kaname's faith on Isaya is perhaps based on something that he knew Isaya had done in the past which fits his goal? (If Kaname is fishing for his help in the future via the letter) why else would he need the help of someone who's seemingly neutral or a spectator such as Isaya?

    Kaname wanting Isaya's help would be the second theory I would support other than the Kaname will kill Isaya , if the latter will not happen. Razz

    I have told you before … you have a hawk-eye … I hadn’t seen the envelope lol.
    Yes it’s true … Kaname uses sealing wax … I remembered the invitation he had sent to Sara and to Takuma for the ball … there is a seal on the envelope >>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-32/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

    But more importantly … I don’t think that Cross wishes to advertise his friendship with Isaya viz with a PB. The rest of the hunters aren’t seeing that kind of friendships casually. So I think he wouldn’t use the HA’s seal … If the note was coming from him I think it would be an unofficial one. Is he using a sealing wax? Idk … haha maybe we are reading too much in this, but well

    If Kaname wants Isaya’s collaboration then is logical to have sent him a note where he would explain to him his “role” hence the phase “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.” … cuz if the note was from Cross and Isaya had foreseen something bad for the hunters, shouldn’t warn Cross???

    Also his servant says “But not you Isaya sama” … is it me or both of their looks are a bit peculiar??? Like as … he is “safe” … nobody can suspect/accuse him???
    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c069/10.html

    haha well you saw the note first. Razz I just followed through.

    I think its weird though, IF Kaien was the one who sent that letter with the wax seal, what is he aiming for when he's too busy with his academy project? What does informing an old pureblood friend for, why would it matter? And why make it official with the stamp of the association (if it is), they are friends after all, he can just make it informal.

    IF the sender was Kaname, it would make a bit sense there--Isaya probably only knew him as juri's son. They're not close, but their families, presumably, have connections.

    So, this is how I would piece the puzzle: Kaname tells Isaya that he knows his past dealings with the Kurans and for this he might need his help in the future. Kaname also tells him about the hunter's situation and it has gotten bad: they don't do their job, they're slacking off, one of them is hitting on his fiancee instead of working, etc etc. Kaname also mentions in the letter that the purebloods will die out one by one, but not Isaya, since Kaname might potentially need his help. Hence Isaya's comment about the letter: “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.” and the maid's comment: "but not you, Isaya sama".

    ok I know this is completely baseless, but there are virtually no explanations given yet, nothing makes sense so I've gotten tired waiting and I came up with this on my own Razz Maybe Hino will drop by and take ideas from it. hehe Razz

    So I’m thinking two scenarios:
    - Or the note was from Kaname but Isaya didn’t agree and informed Cross hence Cross was there on the right time to “catch” Kaname …
    - Or the note was again from Kaname and that’s why he didn’t say nothing to Cross to warn him about the hunters’ reputation … (so how Kaien was there is still a mystery)
    -Or the note was from Cross and all the above are mumbo-jumbo
    Lol I don’t know if I make any sense here

    I don't know about Cross, but it seems he can also sense vampires from a mile away the way he sniffed out Kaname in chapter 68 after he escaped, Razz maybe he can tell or he has a radar for that. So maybe that can justify why Kaien was suddenly teleported to Isaya's house. (wow, you'd wonder if Kaname's arrival was the only thing he was waiting for. Razz)

    another reason I came up with, I don't think Kaien would be that attached to Isaya enough to have him watch out for Kaname's arrival and inform him since Isaya seems to be neutral or is also friends with the Kurans. :/ they seem pretty detached to each other, but who knows. Even if Kaien told Isaya to tell him if Kaname arrives, Isaya wouldn't have known it since Kaname was outside their gate, he didnt make his presence known yet before that, and Kaien was already there as if he was waiting by the house next door. rofl ok whatever. Razz

    its late here and Im out of ideas.... rofl
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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by Bloodredhead on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:56 pm

    nina wrote:Do you think there is any mystery into Isaya’s life/role? Will he participate more active in the story? Could it be that he has his own agenda? What do you think it’s gonna be his role?

    *********************

    Ok here is my take.

    I was thinking that Isaya is a chara that has been introduced really early but thus far every scene we had with him didn’t lead to anything. I mean seems like his appearance was almost meaningless. But since I think that Hino has a very specific plan for the development, there must to be a hidden reason behind him or for his early appearance.
    So let’s see what we know for him.

    First off, Nna thanks for an amazing topic!!!! cheers

    It does seem Isaya will have a role in future chapters as hino has given him some decen screen time. To me ther are two options. One is the one that is already being discussed that he may assist Kaname in his plans. Two is that maybe Isaya could prehaps be one of the people Kaname is against in his chess match.

    sweetsolace wrote:
    - Why his wife made that choice? She just “hated” the PB’s nature or she was driven there out of necessity? Could it be cuz she wanted to protect their children; something similar with what Juri did for Yuuki? And when did that happened? He says early and he is 2000 years old. So it was when the Kurans were ruling or the senate?

    well from the way he mentioned it in chapter 58, he said his wife decided to turn their offspring back to human, so they just had one child as the word was in singular form, one human child for one sacrifice, that is the life of his wife.

    I think this may be connected to the reason why Isaya's wife sacrificed her life to turn their child to human. There could be any reason why she did it, however she apparently did it "early" in their marriage, so they haven't live to their ripe "old age" yet as Juri and Haruka did when she did it. Therefore the reason must have been of an urgent nature... or those were urgent times and they were being hunted by the Council dogs---in that chapter where Juri went to check on Isaya's territory, Juri brought her weapon with her, she knew she would be expecting enemies around. anyway its just a guess

    Also it seems from the way he had said it, after watching his human child grow old and pass away from old age, he became a "spectator". Maybe he was watching over their child grow up normally and free from harm, before his death made him decide he was going to be a spectator?

    Whoever their child is, he/she is already dead. So the theory Kaien is their child is not true.

    juliet wrote:In overall Isaya’s case is also a reminder that a vampire society is not ideal, rather full of threats and manipulations that the elders try to free their children from, asking for a society within their children can live a mortal, yet carefree life. I share this thought, there's something amiss with the scenario.

    It seems there is a very strong possibility that the council or anoher hidden threat forced Isaya's wie toact to protect her children, much like what happeed with the Kurans. The old council wanted power and control over purebloods, s thy would clash with some families who didnt agree with them or who didnt want to be under their control. Isaya's family probably came under this category.

    This also backs up why kaname may wish to work with him. To in effect get vampire society back on track and make it safer for people to live in and safe for future generations. Isaya seems to have been a case much like the Kurans where they were threatened, this may be an incentive for him to work with Kaname and also he may have a similar goal to Kaname, because of the past incident with his wife nd childre.

    Though it does wipe side Kaien being his son, there is still a slight possibility that kaien may be decended from his son. Hence why he may not hate Isaya like he did other purebloods, and also why his vampire genes are very high.

    nina wrote:OR Kaname didn’t go there to kill Isaya in the first place? The whole scene with Ruka and Kain outside Isaya’s door … then the small talk between Kaname and Ruka … the scenery doesn’t have similarities with Kaname’s previous acts … just saying lol.

    Your right the scenario is different from what we have previously seen. It does make you wonder what kanames intentions were by going there. I think if he was going to take Isaya out he wouldnt have let kain and ruka go ahead of him, as it may have alreted Isaya to something.
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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by nina on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:10 pm

    sweetsolace wrote: we can assume pureblood life back in those days had been rough while they were under the control of the council. The saying that Sara said, "If you behave to the council, they wont turn their bad side on you" therefore anyone who goes against the council will suffer repercussion. Its a guess, without proof, but perhaps the Shoutou went against the council or did something wrong. And this caused them to be hunted down. So Isaya's wife turned their child to human, and Isaya witnessed their child growing old, finally he decided to become just a spectator, perhaps this decision was influenced by the events and he just decided now to "watch over things" than participate? when he participated it cost him the pain of turning their child to human and watching him die, so now he became a spectator?

    But his wife’s sacrifice in order to turn their child into human, and his withdrawal as a spectator seems not to be enough … Juri’s attempt to protect Isaya’s territory while he was in slumber proves that he was still a “target”, cuz I assume that at that time he was already alone … his child probably was dead or else he wouldn’t be in slumber.

    So or that incident is just an indication of the violence that characterize vampire’s society in general, hence no one was safe, even the ones who were in slumber … or Isaya wasn’t safe cuz the senate considered him as a potential “threat”/opponent due to his past and his ties with the Kurans.

    I think its weird though, IF Kaien was the one who sent that letter with the wax seal, what is he aiming for when he's too busy with his academy project? What does informing an old pureblood friend for, why would it matter? And why make it official with the stamp of the association (if it is), they are friends after all, he can just make it informal.


    That makes sense!
    So, this is how I would piece the puzzle: Kaname tells Isaya that he knows his past dealings with the Kurans and for this he might need his help in the future. Kaname also tells him about the hunter's situation and it has gotten bad: they don't do their job, they're slacking off, one of them is hitting on his fiancee instead of working, etc etc. Kaname also mentions in the letter that the purebloods will die out one by one, but not Isaya, since Kaname might potentially need his help. Hence Isaya's comment about the letter: “The reputation of the PBs has gotten pretty bad again … the same goes for the hunters.”and the maid's comment: "but not you, Isaya sama".

    ROFLMAO!!! You cracked me there hahaha! rofl rofl rofl Yes I agree … the fact that a hunter is hitting on Kaname’s fiancée hence a disgrace for the hunters and the PBs as well could be the motivation that Isaya was lacking! Razz

    Bloodredhead wrote: First off, Nna thanks for an amazing topic!!!!

    I’m glad you like it Blood Very Happy I think is nice to change pace from the discussions for the LT from time to time. VK isn’t only the LT lol. Thanks for replying *HUGS*

    Two is that maybe Isaya could prehaps be one of the people Kaname is against in his chess match.

    I guess you mean for Isaya to be a villain? That would be a GRANDE twist though.
    Except for the way Hino has depict Isaya thus far as a peaceful PB, there is another thing that doesn’t match with this scenario …

    There are many evil incidents that occurred the passed year … children kidnaps, the recent auction of the young human girl that haven’t been addressed yet. I mean we don’t know who’s the master mind behind. We have speculated that it could be Sara but no proof yet.
    IMO if Sara is behind of all these then she is a BIG villain cuz that is a big scale project there >>> altered tabs, kidnaps, auctions, army of slaves etc.

    But if Sara isn’t the culprit for the kidnaps and the auction, then someone else should have orchestrated all that … What I’m trying to say is that Isaya couldn’t be the one cuz the kidnaps have started before he woken from his slumber … at least this is my assumption from the chronological order that Hino has shown the events …

    After one year Zero interrogates a vampire about his master name, who probably had attempted to kidnap a child >>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-35/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-5/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html

    This incident took place before the ball, viz before Isaya’s awakening … so I think it couldn’t be he.

    Also I’m leaning towards the option that neither Sara is behind the kidnaps, cuz if she wanted the children’s’ blood for her tabs, at that time seems that she hadn’t start yet her project with the blood tablets … she captured the president of the pharmaceutical company later.

    Therefore I have the feeling that there is another master mind behind the scene, that we don’t know yet and that one could be the main villain …






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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by Bloodredhead on Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:59 pm

    nina wrote:
    Bloodredhead wrote: First off, Nna thanks for an amazing topic!!!!

    I’m glad you like it Blood Very Happy I think is nice to change pace from the discussions for the LT from time to time. VK isn’t only the LT lol. Thanks for replying *HUGS*

    Your right its good to look at stuff outside the LT, there is way more to the story than just that! And its my pleasure replying to such an intriguing topic. *Hugs back*

    nina wrote:
    Bloodredhead wrote:Two is that maybe Isaya could prehaps be one of the people Kaname is against in his chess match.

    I guess you mean for Isaya to be a villain? That would be a GRANDE twist though.
    Except for the way Hino has depict Isaya thus far as a peaceful PB, there is another thing that doesn’t match with this scenario …

    There are many evil incidents that occurred the passed year … children kidnaps, the recent auction of the young human girl that haven’t been addressed yet. I mean we don’t know who’s the master mind behind. We have speculated that it could be Sara but no proof yet.
    IMO if Sara is behind of all these then she is a BIG villain cuz that is a big scale project there >>> altered tabs, kidnaps, auctions, army of slaves etc.

    But if Sara isn’t the culprit for the kidnaps and the auction, then someone else should have orchestrated all that … What I’m trying to say is that Isaya couldn’t be the one cuz the kidnaps have started before he woken from his slumber … at least this is my assumption from the chronological order that Hino has shown the events …

    After one year Zero interrogates a vampire about his master name, who probably had attempted to kidnap a child >>>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-35/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-5/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html

    This incident took place before the ball, viz before Isaya’s awakening … so I think it couldn’t be he.

    Also I’m leaning towards the option that neither Sara is behind the kidnaps, cuz if she wanted the children’s’ blood for her tabs, at that time seems that she hadn’t start yet her project with the blood tablets … she captured the president of the pharmaceutical company later.

    Therefore I have the feeling that there is another master mind behind the scene, that we don’t know yet and that one could be the main villain …



    Your right the only thing that makes me wonder if Isaya could be a villian is his reason for staying alive. Most purebloods in the past have killed themselves due to the longtivity of their life (Ouri-allowed himself to be killed), and also when their mate isnt with them its even more lonely. We've seen vampires go mad with rage and sorrow when they have lost their loved one (Shizuka) or have been denied them (Rido). We have even been showed purebloods going into slumber hoping never to awake from despair (Kaname).

    Also with Isaya's children having passed away, and even his grandchildren and great grandchildren probably, why is he remaining? He's lost his family and is being a 'spectator'. It seems a very lonely and pointless existence in a way. Why remain, unless he has another purpose for existing? A reason? A plan?

    Its a long shot probably, the most probably case is that Isaya will assist Kaname, but I just can't help but wonder.
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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by juliet on Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:20 pm

    On the other hand being so apathetic about it and being a mere spectator does not make Isaya an ally of Kurans or anybody else, does it? Not trully...

    So I am wondering if that is Kaname's visits all about? What side will Isaya take? its no time to be apathetic here, so perhaps Kaname visits to learn Isaya's intentions (allies or enemies) and ask him to take sides?

    Kaien can be standing there, also to prohibit Kaname from involving Isaya into his plans...since kaien had already warned Isaya not to get involved in anything.






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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by sweetsolace on Mon Sep 05, 2011 5:27 pm

    Bloodredhead wrote:
    Also with Isaya's children having passed away, and even his grandchildren and great grandchildren probably, why is he remaining? He's lost his family and is being a 'spectator'. It seems a very lonely and pointless existence in a way. Why remain, unless he has another purpose for existing? A reason? A plan?

    Its a long shot probably, the most probably case is that Isaya will assist Kaname, but I just can't help but wonder.

    well, if it helps Hanadagi is also another pureblood who had lived as single throughout the years, and perhaps saves himself from the loneliness through sleeping. Razz In my opinion Hanadagi and Isaya seem to have this purpose that propels them forward and keeps them away from loneliness, whatever it is. Razz

    juliet wrote:On the other hand being so apathetic about it and being a mere spectator does not make Isaya an ally of Kurans or anybody else, does it? Not trully...So I am wondering if that is Kaname's visits all about? What side will Isaya take? its no time to be apathetic here, so perhaps Kaname visits to learn Isaya's intentions (allies or enemies) and ask him to take sides?

    Kaien can be standing there, also to prohibit Kaname from involving Isaya into his plans...since kaien had already warned Isaya not to get involved in anything.

    nice point to consider. Isaya being neutral would be another point for Kaname to take advantage of his position, but the question is, if he wanted to gain his alliance, why do it now in that chaotic moment? though that makes sense that Kaien may have told him that because he knew his neutrality would be exploited soon, (which might also explain how Kaien seems to have anticipated kanaem's arrival at Isaya's house).
    But is Isaya really "neutral" as he appears, just because he said he prefers to watch over the events? We know he had a past friendship with Kaien and Juri, but as of where his true stance lies, its questionable. Why he became a spectator? There's a possibility he can stop being a spectator, and start getting involve....





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    Re: What is Isaya’s role?

    Post by stilldollgaze on Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:44 am

    Well I think he is like a small key to figure out things conneting to others like tim for example in one of the side stories:A load of nonsense from a certain photo lover. that when cross was get he pictue taken and that he is a rare specimen because hasnt aged in the last two hunderd years and little Toga was there as well soon after that he seen with juri after killing another vampireand mentions Isaya has just started his 50 year slumber.so now that Isaya is awake doesn't that mean cross is over 250 years old and Toga being over 50.

    Also with kaname's killing streak with purebloods they knew he would target Isaya eventually and was correct there was kaname and cross waiting.Im not sure who would be killed or the fact that anyone wold be killed but if any were to die even Isaya it would have a big effect.

    Somehow I have a theory Isaya will be involed with sara's plans later in the plot wheither he likes it or not.

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