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» Who do you think Yuki loves more: Kaname or Zero?
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» So What will happen of Kaname?
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» Does anybody think Yuki wasted time in Chapter 93?
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» Symbolism Blog on VK & New Novel!!
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» Ever "missed" a Chapter?
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» What kind of feeling?
Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:03 am by Saphira_Kuran

We and the Youtube

Poll

would you like to read a sequel of vk?or is hino thinking of writing one?
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    Do you think ZEKI is over?

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    sweetsolace
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    Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by sweetsolace on Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:52 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Pretty much it drags a lot in terms of resolving whatever Yuki feels for Zero, and in this chapter 74 both of them admitted -indirectly- having moved on from their past
    Zero: There's nothing you would see in my blood, I have let go of my attachments to you and only every now and then it visits me ---means his feelings for her are either not that strong, he's lying but I doubt it since the blood does not lie after all, or he has simply moved on from her.
    Yuki: I never intended to take your blood, I only did because I've been restraining my hunger for so long and I have no choice ---means she's not interested in him romantically.

    In my opinion, when a pairing drags this much, its either the author is milking the LT benefits that ZEKI reaps from its loyal fans, or there's no romance to expect from ZEKI because in the first place there's none.

    What are your thoughts?

    caela
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by caela on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:03 pm

    I know what you really meant but don't try to deny that you weren't responsible for their "misinterpretations ". Moreover telling people to grab a dictionary for something you failed to do in the first place when you used the word RAPE is just passing the blame.

    At grade level do you think a person would be responsible for the word, "essentially"? You would actually be the wrong person to ask that question since you are still translating it to mean "equals."

    Anyone can slip up in understanding a word or two in these long passages we write each other. BUT I GAVE YOU A DICTIONARY REFERENCE!

    After I gave it to you, you still refuse to understand the situation. That leaves two options. You are being stubborn because you refuse to give anything to a ZEKI.

    (I know why I and many other Zekis have negative ratings on this forum.)

    The other option is that you are not intelligent enough. I don't think you are dumb. Your tattoo argument was very good. So, believe me, take the first option.

    Moreover, I just said that I got the impression you implied it was RAPE what Shizuka did to Zero because of the words "essentially" and "physical attraction", the latter one being your invention since there was nothing like that with Shizuka (otherwise she'd be a pedo now ), YOU'RE THE ONE who put this words, not me. I know what I should take literally and what I shouldn't, one of that is your post.

    Check out the last few pages of chapter 13. There is physical attraction on her part.

    BTW Again, where did I say zero was raped? I suggest you cut and paste it because in all your posts I still don't see it.

    you should get a psychology book instead of a dictionary to see what TRAUMA is. Trauma victims reaction to having someone else touch the affected part is important.
    They have timid or guarding symptoms associated to whatever causes the trigger to that trauma.

    from wikipedia

    ....After a traumatic experience, a person may re-experience the trauma mentally and physically, hence avoiding trauma reminders, also called triggers, as this can be uncomfortable and even painful.


    trauma victims AVOID anything that REMIND them of the traumatic incident. In this case the incident is the bite, anything associated to the bite like touching his neck is INCLUDED.

    I've taken psychology COURSES. Wikipedia is not a scholarly resource. Have you tried writing a college paper with wikipedia as a reference? That's an automatic fail for some classes. Wikipedia is not trusted by professors

    Manifestation of trauma varies between individuals! People range from not troubled at all to suicidal/homicidal.

    You can say that you don't agree with it, but don't pretend I didn't write any evidence. I suggest you edit your post.

    You do realize I wasn't talking about you here, right?

    And here's a better proof for all this baseless belief. Shizuka herself gives Zero another taste of his life-changing "trauma" (deleted link)
    and yet instead of making him more depressed as he had to relive that again, he's actually more empowered, see how he managed to break out of Shizuka's hold and shoot himself.


    Nice point. If it were true that all people with trauma showed the same symptoms and signs, I would be forced to agree with your point.

    Saying I shouldn't compare being touched and being bitten because they're not the same and then supporting that by saying you'll take me to a place with mosquitoes to get bitten is not only a laughable and childish challenge, but proves nothing except your inability to provide solid proofs from the manga which is where we derive all this.

    How is using mosquitoes as real world creatures that suck blood as a stand-in for a vampire laughable or childish?

    By the way, if I were as without ability as you claim, you wouldn't even bother posting something directed to me, because that would waste your time.

    I shouldn't have to use manga to prove that touching is different from biting. They are different words that mean different things. Are you trying to say that Zero would not be able to tell a tattoo tool, which has one point, from a vampire bite, which has two points? A tattoo is only for the top of the skin and a vampire bite has to hit deep enough for a vein or an artery.

    Anyways, gotta go. Good night














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    sweetsolace
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by sweetsolace on Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:35 pm

    @caela



    At grade level do you think a person would be responsible for the
    word, "essentially"? You would actually be the wrong person to ask that
    question since you are still translating it to mean "equals."


    Anyone can slip up in understanding a word or two in these long passages
    we write each other. BUT I GAVE YOU A DICTIONARY REFERENCE!

    After
    I gave it to you, you still refuse to understand the situation. That
    leaves two options. You are being stubborn because you refuse to give
    anything to a ZEKI.

    (I know why I and many other Zekis have negative ratings on this forum.)

    The other option is that you are not intelligent enough. I don't
    think you are dumb. Your tattoo argument was very good. So, believe
    me, take the first option.

    ""
    I know what you really meant but don't try to deny that you weren't
    responsible for their "misinterpretations ".

    Moreover telling people to grab a dictionary for something YOU failed to do in the first place when you used the word RAPE is just passing the blame.


    Moreover, I just said that I got the impression you implied it was RAPE
    what Shizuka did to Zero because of the words "essentially" and
    "physical attraction", the latter one being your invention since there
    was nothing like that with Shizuka (otherwise she'd be a pedo now ),

    YOU'RE THE ONE who put this words, not me.
    I know what I should take
    literally and what I shouldn't, one of that is your post. ""

    Check out the last few pages of chapter 13. There is physical attraction on her part.


    some physical attraction... I think I can feel her lust there
    I think she's planning to rape Zero in the future because of this or give him something essentially like rape.

    hm.

    BTW Again, where did I say zero was raped? I suggest you cut and paste it because in all your posts I still don't see it.


    keep looking for it.
    Maybe you'll find it.
    Good luck.

    Wikipedia is not a scholarly
    resource. Have you tried writing a college paper with wikipedia as a
    reference?
    of course wikipedia is not reliable, but only if you choose to believe it isn't. Its the most common reference used here on the forum (not my own research papers ofc ). Better than nothing.

    Manifestation of trauma varies between individuals! People range from not troubled at all to suicidal/homicidal.
    so how would you group Zero? The Calm, Seemingly Normal Traumatized Vampie?

    Nice point. If it were true that all people with trauma showed
    the same symptoms and signs, I would be forced to agree with your point.
    ""Zero's reactions lacked the intensity that should be present if that bite incident really affected him. ""

    How is using mosquitoes as real world creatures that suck blood as a stand-in for a vampire laughable or childish?
    I shouldn't have to use manga to prove that touching is
    different from biting. They are different words that mean different
    things. Are you trying to say that Zero would not be able to tell a
    tattoo tool, which has one point, from a vampire bite, which has two
    points? A tattoo is only for the top of the skin and a vampire bite has
    to hit deep enough for a vein or an artery.
    ""Saying I shouldn't compare being touched and being bitten because
    they're not the same and then supporting that by saying you'll take me
    to a place with mosquitoes to get bitten is not only a laughable and
    childish challenge, but proves nothing except your inability to provide
    solid proofs from the manga
    which is where we derive all this.""


    By
    the way, if I were as without ability as you claim, you wouldn't even
    bother posting something directed to me, because that would waste your
    time.
    I've actually been reading your posts and its very... amusing, that I could not resist myself.



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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by caela on Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:02 pm

    You are the one accusing me of saying ZERO was raped.

    You still haven't posted a cut and paste.

    IF I HAD POSTED IT, YOU WOULD HAVE SHOWN IT



    About the Shizuka Hio reference, I can't find it or I'm mistaking it for the anime. So my mistake.

    I can admit to a mistake. You still insist that you understand the terms "essentially rape." You would prefer to insult me and call me a drunk.

    It looks like you were drinking some kind of alcohol.


    what you did was childish because it is against forum rules.


    I suggest you quit the harrassment.


    I never said I would take you anywhere!
    If you think both are the same, I
    know a place with lots of mosquitoes that you'll enjoy the company of.
    You said that biting and touching were the same. If what you said was true, what I wrote would not be a problem. It is a problem because what you said is wrong.


    so how would you group Zero? The Calm, Seemingly Normal Traumatized Vampie?

    ""Zero's reactions lacked the intensity that should be present if that bite incident really affected him. ""

    According to you, you would classify him as calm and collected. And he is calm and collected most of the time. Wow, we agree!

    Seriously, try to get some sleep. I've got better things to do than tattle on people, so don't worry unless you want to continue.




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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by nina on Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:30 pm

    First thing first … Was Zero traumatized from Shizuka’s cruelties? My opinion is yes. He wasn’t only traumatized but I think he was defined from the incident … not ONLY the bite which turned him into a different creature but also from his parents brutally murder and his brother betrayal! (That’s why I’m very stunned when I see many Zeki fans to like Shizuka and forgive easily Ichirou’s attitude O.o but this is another story …). This is also supported from the side story about how Yagari lost his eye in order to protect Zero from a level-e’s attack. Zero was very innocent and “softy” back then despite his natural instinct not to trust/like vampires. I think that story serving one purpose … to emphasize on how much Shizuka stigmatized his existence … to make the comparison of how Zero was prior Shizuka and afterwards.

    About the bite … also think that left him some kind of sensitivity … we also saw scenes where Zero was scratching his neck and Yuuki was trying to comfort him. Was he in physical or emotional pain? I think it was mostly emotional cuz we haven’t see any human who is turned into vampire to suffer from physical ache on the spot where was bitten afterwards … (examples are Sara’s harem). On the other hand Zero was suffering for many years until he fully transformed so maybe this process includes physical pain as well cuz he wasn’t human but a hunter who was trying to defeat his vampirism? … I don’t know for sure but I think is understandable and natural to be traumatized by this terrible experience. So it’s not abnormal to consider that he could be reluctant to be bitten or that an aggressive bite from a PB could bring on the surface bad memories and emotional pain.

    However the comparison of Zero’s experience with a child’s rape (cuz we shouldn’t forget that Zero was a twelve years old boy!) is repulsive and way off. It’s not about being sensitive on adults issues but being sensitive towards real victims of such tragedies … Enough said about this issue. I think we should close this subject agreeing that it was an “unfortunate” comparison.

    Now about Yuuki’s bite … I think there are two perspectives that we should explore … Zero’s and Yuuki’s, which in my opinion do not coincide indispensably.

    Zero:
    Even if we agree that he has a sensitivity concerning bites in general still there are lots of reasons not to apply on Yuuki necessarily>>>
    1. Cuz he has feelings for her … even IF he wasn’t in love with her anymore still that doesn’t mean that doesn’t care for her.
    2. Zero knows that Yuuki saved him in the past and as his blood has shown recently the human Yuuki guards his fears/level-eness. So Zero will always feel indebted towards her. This is a chance to return the “favor” …
    3. He knows that Yuuki isn’t an evil or aggressive creature, even if he still hates her nature he doesn’t hate her as a person … so her bite has none similarity with Shizuka’s …
    4. She was in need … he was the one who said that her hunger was written all over her face … they have a common interest, the control of the NC which means the safety of the DC, moreover with an evil PB roaming around the academy …
    5. Ichirou’s strong presence inside him … I think this element is very significant. Ichirou might have given him the human part that he has lost due to Shizuka’s bite. My feeling is that Zero after his visit at the graveyard, where he came in touch with his brother, has changed. How much or in which way; it remains to be seen. Certainly he hasn’t changed his view about the PBs, his hate is still there, but I think now he has a peace of mind concerning his biggest fear >>> losing completely his humanity and turning into a level-e monster … He used to have the small gun he had give to Yuuki under his pillow in order to calm down his mind/fears. Now I think this role could be replaced from Ichirou. That’s why I think his presence inside him is very important and the impact on him perhaps we haven’t seen it yet …

    What I’m trying to say is that NOW Zero isn’t the same Zero who constantly was fighting for his sanity/humanity so his sensitivity or his trauma it might have lesser impact on him … he has started to heal … to recover from that horrible incident and the difference I think is made from Ichirou …
    Therefore Yuuki’s bite wasn’t something awful/hurtful for him thus he was pretty calm before and afterwards as sweetsolace pointed out previously … no sign of been traumatized again.

    Yuuki:
    The point is though that Yuuki doesn’t know all these … she still was concerned about his level-eness not to mention that she is convinced that Zero hates her due to the “enemies-status” and his cold/harsh attitude towards her … so she logically thought that by biting him she could hurt him thus and her wording “Treasure yourself” and “why we can’t move forward without hurting each other” … she thinks that Zero is seeing her as a hateful creature (<<< Yuuki: something is broken and I could do nothing to fix it … chap. 73)
    Yuuki was beside Zero in every battle he gave as a child and as a teen with his level-eness … she was there when Shizuka bitten him again asking her to stop hurting Zero …
    My opinion is that IF she went through with the “aggressive” bite then that could mean she wanted to hurt him or at least that she didn’t care if she would hurt him by re-opening his old wound since she isn’t in position to tell the difference between Zero now and one year ago. However we all know that Yuuki could never hurt Zero intentionally so she stopped and talked with him before the bite … she wanted to clear the things as for why she would agree with that bite.

    1. Mutual agreement
    2. She admits that she is hungry so she asks his cooperation “Please help me … I want Zero’s blood NOW …
    3. What for? >>> “a little bit of your blood will be okay … because once I’m satisfied I can surely do well as a PB KURAN …
    4. She asks him not to think anything … why?

    My interpretation is that Yuuki saw Zero’s offer as an open window for a fresh start … as a peace offer which could nullify their current status as “enemies” … When someone is willing to help you (like Zero did by offering his blood) and you are accepting his help then this could be a nice opportunity to start over setting aside the old grudges>>

    Indications:

    - I want to talk with you like before …
    - There is something broken that I could do nothing to fix …
    - Going back to the past isn’t allowed …
    - I could speak to him very normally right? I will be all right if we can start from the beginning again (>> and she’s thinking the first time she saw Zero as a wounded child).

    What hurts Yuuki more; the fact that Zero hated her and not only he didn’t want to be friends anymore but he claimed that they are enemies <<< that’s what she is trying to reverse now. That’s why she also asked him not to think about anything … she didn’t want Zero’s romantic feelings for her to create any implication to her efforts for a new start. I think we can all agree on that.

    About lies:

    Personally I don’t think that Yuuki was lying in anything she said or thought … in fact I think she was very honest to herself and to Zero.
    On the other hand for Zero we can’t be sure cuz is a habit of him to cover his romantic feelings for Yuuki so his wording “I already have not been thinking of you anymore …” could be the case.
    However we can’t be sure that he is lying either … maybe is “his truth” ... the starting point to turn the page over cuz he can hide his thoughts by blocking his mind but how he could do that with his feelings? I think the feelings are floating in the blood giving a pleasant or unpleasant taste …
    If my memory serves right >>>
    - Yuuki has said “I want to latch into his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feelings in it?” for Kaname.
    - Zero has tasted Yuuki’s romantic feelings for Kaname in the past … even her inner unspoken wish to give her blood to Kaname …
    - Zero when he drank from Kaname said that his blood tasted like poison (I guess due to his feelings)

    So I wonder how Zero could hide/exclude his true feelings of his blood … O.o
    IF Zero was lying Yuuki should be in position to tell …

    We shall see … it’s very early to make conclusions.






    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



    Spoiler:

    *wants to sneak under these bed sheets*
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    sweetsolace
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by sweetsolace on Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:40 pm

    nina wrote:First thing first … Was Zero traumatized from Shizuka’s cruelties? My opinion is yes. He wasn’t only traumatized but I think he was defined from the incident … not ONLY the bite which turned him into a different creature but also from his parents brutally murder and his brother betrayal! (That’s why I’m very stunned when I see many Zeki fans to like Shizuka and forgive easily Ichirou’s attitude O.o but this is another story …). This is also supported from the side story about how Yagari lost his eye in order to protect Zero from a level-e’s attack. Zero was very innocent and “softy” back then despite his natural instinct not to trust/like vampires. I think that story serving one purpose … to emphasize on how much Shizuka stigmatized his existence … to make the comparison of how Zero was prior Shizuka and afterwards.

    About the bite … also think that left him some kind of sensitivity … we also saw scenes where Zero was scratching his neck and Yuuki was trying to comfort him. Was he in physical or emotional pain? I think it was mostly emotional cuz we haven’t see any human who is turned into vampire to suffer from physical ache on the spot where was bitten afterwards … (examples are Sara’s harem). On the other hand Zero was suffering for many years until he fully transformed so maybe this process includes physical pain as well cuz he wasn’t human but a hunter who was trying to defeat his vampirism? … I don’t know for sure but I think is understandable and natural to be traumatized by this terrible experience. So it’s not abnormal to consider that he could be reluctant to be bitten or that an aggressive bite from a PB could bring on the surface bad memories and emotional pain.

    However the comparison of Zero’s experience with a child’s rape (cuz we shouldn’t forget that Zero was a twelve years old boy!) is repulsive and way off. It’s not about being sensitive on adults issues but being sensitive towards real victims of such tragedies … Enough said about this issue. I think we should close this subject agreeing that it was an “unfortunate” comparison.

    Now about Yuuki’s bite … I think there are two perspectives that we should explore … Zero’s and Yuuki’s, which in my opinion do not coincide indispensably.

    Zero:
    Even if we agree that he has a sensitivity concerning bites in general still there are lots of reasons not to apply on Yuuki necessarily>>>
    1. Cuz he has feelings for her … even IF he wasn’t in love with her anymore still that doesn’t mean that doesn’t care for her.
    2. Zero knows that Yuuki saved him in the past and as his blood has shown recently the human Yuuki guards his fears/level-eness. So Zero will always feel indebted towards her. This is a chance to return the “favor” …
    3. He knows that Yuuki isn’t an evil or aggressive creature, even if he still hates her nature he doesn’t hate her as a person … so her bite has none similarity with Shizuka’s …
    4. She was in need … he was the one who said that her hunger was written all over her face … they have a common interest, the control of the NC which means the safety of the DC, moreover with an evil PB roaming around the academy …
    5. Ichirou’s strong presence inside him … I think this element is very significant. Ichirou might have given him the human part that he has lost due to Shizuka’s bite. My feeling is that Zero after his visit at the graveyard, where he came in touch with his brother, has changed. How much or in which way; it remains to be seen. Certainly he hasn’t changed his view about the PBs, his hate is still there, but I think now he has a peace of mind concerning his biggest fear >>> losing completely his humanity and turning into a level-e monster … He used to have the small gun he had give to Yuuki under his pillow in order to calm down his mind/fears. Now I think this role could be replaced from Ichirou. That’s why I think his presence inside him is very important and the impact on him perhaps we haven’t seen it yet …

    What I’m trying to say is that NOW Zero isn’t the same Zero who constantly was fighting for his sanity/humanity so his sensitivity or his trauma it might have lesser impact on him … he has started to heal … to recover from that horrible incident and the difference I think is made from Ichirou …
    Therefore Yuuki’s bite wasn’t something awful/hurtful for him thus he was pretty calm before and afterwards as sweetsolace pointed out previously … no sign of been traumatized again.

    Yuuki:
    The point is though that Yuuki doesn’t know all these … she still was concerned about his level-eness not to mention that she is convinced that Zero hates her due to the “enemies-status” and his cold/harsh attitude towards her … so she logically thought that by biting him she could hurt him thus and her wording “Treasure yourself” and “why we can’t move forward without hurting each other” … she thinks that Zero is seeing her as a hateful creature (<<< Yuuki: something is broken and I could do nothing to fix it … chap. 73)
    Yuuki was beside Zero in every battle he gave as a child and as a teen with his level-eness … she was there when Shizuka bitten him again asking her to stop hurting Zero …
    My opinion is that IF she went through with the “aggressive” bite then that could mean she wanted to hurt him or at least that she didn’t care if she would hurt him by re-opening his old wound since she isn’t in position to tell the difference between Zero now and one year ago. However we all know that Yuuki could never hurt Zero intentionally so she stopped and talked with him before the bite … she wanted to clear the things as for why she would agree with that bite.

    1. Mutual agreement
    2. She admits that she is hungry so she asks his cooperation “Please help me … I want Zero’s blood NOW …
    3. What for? >>> “a little bit of your blood will be okay … because once I’m satisfied I can surely do well as a PB KURAN …
    4. She asks him not to think anything … why?

    My interpretation is that Yuuki saw Zero’s offer as an open window for a fresh start … as a peace offer which could nullify their current status as “enemies” … When someone is willing to help you (like Zero did by offering his blood) and you are accepting his help then this could be a nice opportunity to start over setting aside the old grudges>>

    Indications:

    - I want to talk with you like before …
    - There is something broken that I could do nothing to fix …
    - Going back to the past isn’t allowed …
    - I could speak to him very normally right? I will be all right if we can start from the beginning again (>> and she’s thinking the first time she saw Zero as a wounded child).

    What hurts Yuuki more; the fact that Zero hated her and not only he didn’t want to be friends anymore but he claimed that they are enemies <<< that’s what she is trying to reverse now. That’s why she also asked him not to think about anything … she didn’t want Zero’s romantic feelings for her to create any implication to her efforts for a new start. I think we can all agree on that.

    About lies:

    Personally I don’t think that Yuuki was lying in anything she said or thought … in fact I think she was very honest to herself and to Zero.
    On the other hand for Zero we can’t be sure cuz is a habit of him to cover his romantic feelings for Yuuki so his wording “I already have not been thinking of you anymore …” could be the case.
    However we can’t be sure that he is lying either … maybe is “his truth” ... the starting point to turn the page over cuz he can hide his thoughts by blocking his mind but how he could do that with his feelings? I think the feelings are floating in the blood giving a pleasant or unpleasant taste …
    If my memory serves right >>>
    - Yuuki has said “I want to latch into his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feelings in it?” for Kaname.
    - Zero has tasted Yuuki’s romantic feelings for Kaname in the past … even her inner unspoken wish to give her blood to Kaname …
    - Zero when he drank from Kaname said that his blood tasted like poison (I guess due to his feelings)

    So I wonder how Zero could hide/exclude his true feelings of his blood … O.o
    IF Zero was lying Yuuki should be in position to tell …

    We shall see … it’s very early to make conclusions.


    excellent. cheers I agree with everything except Zero's trauma cheers cheers

    let me make it clear, I disagreed that being bitten had negative associations for Zero, its an assumption based on the event that Zero was "traumatized" by shizuka's incident. There were no strong reactions from him related to that ever since that incident other than him clawing at his neck and saying he could "still feel her" there, but due time throughout the four years Zero changed, but maybe its due in fact what Yuki had done for him---she "healed him", as you pointed out. But the effect was still there, he had hated ALL vampires and he had developed some sort of phobia towards them. That, I can agree, was the aftermath effect of Shizuka's incident.

    Then if there's someone who can understand Zero's hatred the most, it is Yuki, who stayed by his side during his struggle. However we should consider what Yuki's POV is telling here while the scene runs, she is playing it safe by being gentle towards Zero, but she doesn't know what Zero thinks about the bite itself.
    1. she could be assuming he still hated her
    2. she's thinking about the pain of his experience and doesn't want to add more to it-- however this contradicts with the FACT she chose to chomp for his NECK, a site for traumatic event that she KNEW very well affected him, when he had clearly offered his open and bleeding wrist for her. IMO this doesn't show her consideration for his "trauma" there, BUT NOTE she could hold herself for one last second to pay respects towards him and ask his permission. Why was his permission MORE necessary than choosing to bite his wrist, IMO because she wants to keep her distance. She doesn't want to give him the wrong idea. << this notion is supported by Yuki's recent thoughts since second arc, which showed no concern for Zero's pain, BUT showed concern for his level E. Her foremost thoughts were mostly wanting to run away from him, but also showing a WARINESS towards any interactions she made towards him, as though she is unsure how to proceed after what she found out.

    Also remember when Yuki ALSO nearly bit him in chapter 60, he KNEW she was going to bite him and waited, he also had no traumatic reaction to that, NOR was Yuki being considerate towards him or asked him permission

    Also remember this is THE SECOND ARC. Not the First Arc. The caring Yuki in the first arc has been replaced with a Yuki that wishes to face her goals and move on.

    Zero also appears very calm for someone who's about to be bitten--- for someone about to relive a supposed traumatic experience. REmember that Yuki was about to bite his open and bleeding wrist, but she went for his NECK, and Zero had no problem with that sudden shift in position either as it appears. Remember Yuki shifting was a SUDDEN reaction he could not have expected, but he had no problem with her biting his "traumatic spot". It's either he has phenomenal control over his emotions that he can step on the brake anytime he wants, or its simply that he had resigned himself to giving Yuki his blood. The former reason I don't believe in, since Zero often seems impulsive when it comes to his anger and lust---- this is supported by his reaction to Yuki in chapter 72 when he yanked her wrist because of her simple comment.
    This to me contradicts with the idea he has negative associations with the bite, as he appears every little bit like he had thrown that fear at the last moment, control his blood, and appear very relaxed. If it was that simple then its not trauma he's been experiencing all this time, but simple childish fear that can be eliminated at the last second. Its as if he put his entire body in lax mode, at the last second, despite Yuki's aggression---clearly that aggression or suddenness had no visible effect.
    This leads me to the following assumption: It doesn't make sense that he would have negative associations with the bite to the point it was traumatic for him until that moment, because he had a poker face throughout the bite and he even managed to show a scenic view of his blood's memory that features a sakura tree and other stuff.

    I'm quite surprised that the subject of trauma is brought up when there was no mention of it since the first arc, nor was Yuki's concern towards it. Yuki's concern now mainly revolved around his Level E condition as shown by her thoughts. IMO it's another way of looking at it, but to me it doesn't make sense and seems random

    However I do agree with Yuki incapable of lying, she is very honest and I think she's doing what she can in her own way to move on.
    It is also possible that Yuki is aware of being a VAMPIRE instead of a human this time around, but I seriously doubt it, since there was no indication of her on this other than her vampire side appearing when she said she wanted to devour Kaname (and that is not related to realizing she was different now than when she was human).
    What I mean to say is Yuki realizing she is a vampire now would support the idea she was being careful not to hurt Zero more with her vampirism, because she is aware of her effect to him.
    To me it looks like she is more concerned of being on the right terms with him (but this is 2nd priority ) AND also fulfilling her duty as Kuran (1st priority) hence she did not hesitate to bite his "traumatic spot" if it would grant her this. However we can see she tries not to increase his pain more by asking his permission, she was "prepping" him to what was going to happen
    To me this means Yuki is becoming more vampire than she ever was by taking what she wants with her fangs and not hesitating. The Yuki in the first arc would've been more considerate towards Zero and bite his wrist, but the Yuki in this arc is more determined and objective in my observation, realizing what was more important to her.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Bloodredhead on Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:44 am

    nina wrote:First thing first … Was Zero traumatized from Shizuka’s cruelties? My opinion is yes. He wasn’t only traumatized but I think he was defined from the incident … not ONLY the bite which turned him into a different creature but also from his parents brutally murder and his brother betrayal! (That’s why I’m very stunned when I see many Zeki fans to like Shizuka and forgive easily Ichirou’s attitude O.o but this is another story …). This is also supported from the side story about how Yagari lost his eye in order to protect Zero from a level-e’s attack. Zero was very innocent and “softy” back then despite his natural instinct not to trust/like vampires. I think that story serving one purpose … to emphasize on how much Shizuka stigmatized his existence … to make the comparison of how Zero was prior Shizuka and afterwards.

    About the bite … also think that left him some kind of sensitivity … we also saw scenes where Zero was scratching his neck and Yuuki was trying to comfort him. Was he in physical or emotional pain? I think it was mostly emotional cuz we haven’t see any human who is turned into vampire to suffer from physical ache on the spot where was bitten afterwards … (examples are Sara’s harem). On the other hand Zero was suffering for many years until he fully transformed so maybe this process includes physical pain as well cuz he wasn’t human but a hunter who was trying to defeat his vampirism? … I don’t know for sure but I think is understandable and natural to be traumatized by this terrible experience. So it’s not abnormal to consider that he could be reluctant to be bitten or that an aggressive bite from a PB could bring on the surface bad memories and emotional pain.

    However the comparison of Zero’s experience with a child’s rape (cuz we shouldn’t forget that Zero was a twelve years old boy!) is repulsive and way off. It’s not about being sensitive on adults issues but being sensitive towards real victims of such tragedies … Enough said about this issue. I think we should close this subject agreeing that it was an “unfortunate” comparison.

    Now about Yuuki’s bite … I think there are two perspectives that we should explore … Zero’s and Yuuki’s, which in my opinion do not coincide indispensably.

    Zero:
    Even if we agree that he has a sensitivity concerning bites in general still there are lots of reasons not to apply on Yuuki necessarily>>>
    1. Cuz he has feelings for her … even IF he wasn’t in love with her anymore still that doesn’t mean that doesn’t care for her.
    2. Zero knows that Yuuki saved him in the past and as his blood has shown recently the human Yuuki guards his fears/level-eness. So Zero will always feel indebted towards her. This is a chance to return the “favor” …
    3. He knows that Yuuki isn’t an evil or aggressive creature, even if he still hates her nature he doesn’t hate her as a person … so her bite has none similarity with Shizuka’s …
    4. She was in need … he was the one who said that her hunger was written all over her face … they have a common interest, the control of the NC which means the safety of the DC, moreover with an evil PB roaming around the academy …
    5. Ichirou’s strong presence inside him … I think this element is very significant. Ichirou might have given him the human part that he has lost due to Shizuka’s bite. My feeling is that Zero after his visit at the graveyard, where he came in touch with his brother, has changed. How much or in which way; it remains to be seen. Certainly he hasn’t changed his view about the PBs, his hate is still there, but I think now he has a peace of mind concerning his biggest fear >>> losing completely his humanity and turning into a level-e monster … He used to have the small gun he had give to Yuuki under his pillow in order to calm down his mind/fears. Now I think this role could be replaced from Ichirou. That’s why I think his presence inside him is very important and the impact on him perhaps we haven’t seen it yet …

    What I’m trying to say is that NOW Zero isn’t the same Zero who constantly was fighting for his sanity/humanity so his sensitivity or his trauma it might have lesser impact on him … he has started to heal … to recover from that horrible incident and the difference I think is made from Ichirou …
    Therefore Yuuki’s bite wasn’t something awful/hurtful for him thus he was pretty calm before and afterwards as sweetsolace pointed out previously … no sign of been traumatized again.

    Yuuki:
    The point is though that Yuuki doesn’t know all these … she still was concerned about his level-eness not to mention that she is convinced that Zero hates her due to the “enemies-status” and his cold/harsh attitude towards her … so she logically thought that by biting him she could hurt him thus and her wording “Treasure yourself” and “why we can’t move forward without hurting each other” … she thinks that Zero is seeing her as a hateful creature (<<< Yuuki: something is broken and I could do nothing to fix it … chap. 73)
    Yuuki was beside Zero in every battle he gave as a child and as a teen with his level-eness … she was there when Shizuka bitten him again asking her to stop hurting Zero …
    My opinion is that IF she went through with the “aggressive” bite then that could mean she wanted to hurt him or at least that she didn’t care if she would hurt him by re-opening his old wound since she isn’t in position to tell the difference between Zero now and one year ago. However we all know that Yuuki could never hurt Zero intentionally so she stopped and talked with him before the bite … she wanted to clear the things as for why she would agree with that bite.

    1. Mutual agreement
    2. She admits that she is hungry so she asks his cooperation “Please help me … I want Zero’s blood NOW …
    3. What for? >>> “a little bit of your blood will be okay … because once I’m satisfied I can surely do well as a PB KURAN …
    4. She asks him not to think anything … why?

    My interpretation is that Yuuki saw Zero’s offer as an open window for a fresh start … as a peace offer which could nullify their current status as “enemies” … When someone is willing to help you (like Zero did by offering his blood) and you are accepting his help then this could be a nice opportunity to start over setting aside the old grudges>>

    Indications:

    - I want to talk with you like before …
    - There is something broken that I could do nothing to fix …
    - Going back to the past isn’t allowed …
    - I could speak to him very normally right? I will be all right if we can start from the beginning again (>> and she’s thinking the first time she saw Zero as a wounded child).

    What hurts Yuuki more; the fact that Zero hated her and not only he didn’t want to be friends anymore but he claimed that they are enemies <<< that’s what she is trying to reverse now. That’s why she also asked him not to think about anything … she didn’t want Zero’s romantic feelings for her to create any implication to her efforts for a new start. I think we can all agree on that.

    About lies:

    Personally I don’t think that Yuuki was lying in anything she said or thought … in fact I think she was very honest to herself and to Zero.
    On the other hand for Zero we can’t be sure cuz is a habit of him to cover his romantic feelings for Yuuki so his wording “I already have not been thinking of you anymore …” could be the case.
    However we can’t be sure that he is lying either … maybe is “his truth” ... the starting point to turn the page over cuz he can hide his thoughts by blocking his mind but how he could do that with his feelings? I think the feelings are floating in the blood giving a pleasant or unpleasant taste …
    If my memory serves right >>>
    - Yuuki has said “I want to latch into his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feelings in it?” for Kaname.
    - Zero has tasted Yuuki’s romantic feelings for Kaname in the past … even her inner unspoken wish to give her blood to Kaname …
    - Zero when he drank from Kaname said that his blood tasted like poison (I guess due to his feelings)

    So I wonder how Zero could hide/exclude his true feelings of his blood … O.o
    IF Zero was lying Yuuki should be in position to tell …

    We shall see … it’s very early to make conclusions.


    Oh Nina! What more can i say?!

    You nailed it!!!! cheers cheers cheers

    Totally agree with your post, and so well put and explained, like always.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Youweremysafeplace* on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:29 am

    I keep seeing zero gets raped or something. AND I CANT REMEMBER THIS !! LIKE WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN!?

    But i don't think zeki is over, there is still soooo much Hino - sama can do to the story. Plus as a side thing i love the zeki couple so i dont want zeki to end... BUT! who knows, maybe they all die, but yuki ends up still falling i love with both men.. :don't speak:
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Divine Rose on Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:39 am

    Bloodredhead wrote:
    nina wrote:First thing first … Was Zero traumatized from Shizuka’s cruelties? My opinion is yes. He wasn’t only traumatized but I think he was defined from the incident … not ONLY the bite which turned him into a different creature but also from his parents brutally murder and his brother betrayal! (That’s why I’m very stunned when I see many Zeki fans to like Shizuka and forgive easily Ichirou’s attitude O.o but this is another story …). This is also supported from the side story about how Yagari lost his eye in order to protect Zero from a level-e’s attack. Zero was very innocent and “softy” back then despite his natural instinct not to trust/like vampires. I think that story serving one purpose … to emphasize on how much Shizuka stigmatized his existence … to make the comparison of how Zero was prior Shizuka and afterwards.

    About the bite … also think that left him some kind of sensitivity … we also saw scenes where Zero was scratching his neck and Yuuki was trying to comfort him. Was he in physical or emotional pain? I think it was mostly emotional cuz we haven’t see any human who is turned into vampire to suffer from physical ache on the spot where was bitten afterwards … (examples are Sara’s harem). On the other hand Zero was suffering for many years until he fully transformed so maybe this process includes physical pain as well cuz he wasn’t human but a hunter who was trying to defeat his vampirism? … I don’t know for sure but I think is understandable and natural to be traumatized by this terrible experience. So it’s not abnormal to consider that he could be reluctant to be bitten or that an aggressive bite from a PB could bring on the surface bad memories and emotional pain.

    However the comparison of Zero’s experience with a child’s rape (cuz we shouldn’t forget that Zero was a twelve years old boy!) is repulsive and way off. It’s not about being sensitive on adults issues but being sensitive towards real victims of such tragedies … Enough said about this issue. I think we should close this subject agreeing that it was an “unfortunate” comparison.

    Now about Yuuki’s bite … I think there are two perspectives that we should explore … Zero’s and Yuuki’s, which in my opinion do not coincide indispensably.

    Zero:
    Even if we agree that he has a sensitivity concerning bites in general still there are lots of reasons not to apply on Yuuki necessarily>>>
    1. Cuz he has feelings for her … even IF he wasn’t in love with her anymore still that doesn’t mean that doesn’t care for her.
    2. Zero knows that Yuuki saved him in the past and as his blood has shown recently the human Yuuki guards his fears/level-eness. So Zero will always feel indebted towards her. This is a chance to return the “favor” …
    3. He knows that Yuuki isn’t an evil or aggressive creature, even if he still hates her nature he doesn’t hate her as a person … so her bite has none similarity with Shizuka’s …
    4. She was in need … he was the one who said that her hunger was written all over her face … they have a common interest, the control of the NC which means the safety of the DC, moreover with an evil PB roaming around the academy …
    5. Ichirou’s strong presence inside him … I think this element is very significant. Ichirou might have given him the human part that he has lost due to Shizuka’s bite. My feeling is that Zero after his visit at the graveyard, where he came in touch with his brother, has changed. How much or in which way; it remains to be seen. Certainly he hasn’t changed his view about the PBs, his hate is still there, but I think now he has a peace of mind concerning his biggest fear >>> losing completely his humanity and turning into a level-e monster … He used to have the small gun he had give to Yuuki under his pillow in order to calm down his mind/fears. Now I think this role could be replaced from Ichirou. That’s why I think his presence inside him is very important and the impact on him perhaps we haven’t seen it yet …

    What I’m trying to say is that NOW Zero isn’t the same Zero who constantly was fighting for his sanity/humanity so his sensitivity or his trauma it might have lesser impact on him … he has started to heal … to recover from that horrible incident and the difference I think is made from Ichirou …
    Therefore Yuuki’s bite wasn’t something awful/hurtful for him thus he was pretty calm before and afterwards as sweetsolace pointed out previously … no sign of been traumatized again.

    Yuuki:
    The point is though that Yuuki doesn’t know all these … she still was concerned about his level-eness not to mention that she is convinced that Zero hates her due to the “enemies-status” and his cold/harsh attitude towards her … so she logically thought that by biting him she could hurt him thus and her wording “Treasure yourself” and “why we can’t move forward without hurting each other” … she thinks that Zero is seeing her as a hateful creature (<<< Yuuki: something is broken and I could do nothing to fix it … chap. 73)
    Yuuki was beside Zero in every battle he gave as a child and as a teen with his level-eness … she was there when Shizuka bitten him again asking her to stop hurting Zero …
    My opinion is that IF she went through with the “aggressive” bite then that could mean she wanted to hurt him or at least that she didn’t care if she would hurt him by re-opening his old wound since she isn’t in position to tell the difference between Zero now and one year ago. However we all know that Yuuki could never hurt Zero intentionally so she stopped and talked with him before the bite … she wanted to clear the things as for why she would agree with that bite.

    1. Mutual agreement
    2. She admits that she is hungry so she asks his cooperation “Please help me … I want Zero’s blood NOW …
    3. What for? >>> “a little bit of your blood will be okay … because once I’m satisfied I can surely do well as a PB KURAN …
    4. She asks him not to think anything … why?

    My interpretation is that Yuuki saw Zero’s offer as an open window for a fresh start … as a peace offer which could nullify their current status as “enemies” … When someone is willing to help you (like Zero did by offering his blood) and you are accepting his help then this could be a nice opportunity to start over setting aside the old grudges>>

    Indications:

    - I want to talk with you like before …
    - There is something broken that I could do nothing to fix …
    - Going back to the past isn’t allowed …
    - I could speak to him very normally right? I will be all right if we can start from the beginning again (>> and she’s thinking the first time she saw Zero as a wounded child).

    What hurts Yuuki more; the fact that Zero hated her and not only he didn’t want to be friends anymore but he claimed that they are enemies <<< that’s what she is trying to reverse now. That’s why she also asked him not to think about anything … she didn’t want Zero’s romantic feelings for her to create any implication to her efforts for a new start. I think we can all agree on that.

    About lies:

    Personally I don’t think that Yuuki was lying in anything she said or thought … in fact I think she was very honest to herself and to Zero.
    On the other hand for Zero we can’t be sure cuz is a habit of him to cover his romantic feelings for Yuuki so his wording “I already have not been thinking of you anymore …” could be the case.
    However we can’t be sure that he is lying either … maybe is “his truth” ... the starting point to turn the page over cuz he can hide his thoughts by blocking his mind but how he could do that with his feelings? I think the feelings are floating in the blood giving a pleasant or unpleasant taste …
    If my memory serves right >>>
    - Yuuki has said “I want to latch into his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feelings in it?” for Kaname.
    - Zero has tasted Yuuki’s romantic feelings for Kaname in the past … even her inner unspoken wish to give her blood to Kaname …
    - Zero when he drank from Kaname said that his blood tasted like poison (I guess due to his feelings)

    So I wonder how Zero could hide/exclude his true feelings of his blood … O.o
    IF Zero was lying Yuuki should be in position to tell …

    We shall see … it’s very early to make conclusions.


    Oh Nina! What more can i say?!

    You nailed it!!!! cheers cheers cheers

    Totally agree with your post, and so well put and explained, like always.

    I agree with Bloodredhead. FABULOUS post! sFun_cheerleader2 sFun_cheerleader2 sFun_cheerleader2
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by kanachanimmortal on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:40 pm

    zeki is winning dude,they are back to their relationship.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by aya-chan on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 pm

    lucykaede wrote:zeki is winning dude,they are back to their relationship.

    The only relationship zeki had thus far was FRIENDSHIP. Taking that into consideration, then yeah, they are back to their FRIENDSHIP relationship.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by XxContradictionsxX on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:47 pm

    i agree with Nina as well! explained everything i couldnt thanks~
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by SassyKnight on Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:43 am

    ZeKi is definitively not over. Yuki has chosen to stay by his side even without knowing his true feelings. So far Yuki has shown no desire to go back to Kaname; she stayed by Zero.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by kanachanimmortal on Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:56 am

    SassyKnight wrote:ZeKi is definitively not over. Yuki has chosen to stay by his side even without knowing his true feelings. So far Yuki has shown no desire to go back to Kaname; she stayed by Zero.

    zeki can't be over till the very last chapter. almost..
    do you really think hino can let her zeki fans go like that???
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by kialovejapan on Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:15 am

    Zeki is not end til vk is not end xD idem goes for yume....!!!!
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by kanachanimmortal on Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:23 pm

    kialovejapan wrote:Zeki is not end til vk is not end xD idem goes for yume....!!!!

    hino is now developing yuuki which is leading to developing zeki.
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by _Dr.Mika_ on Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:56 pm

    Anneliezz wrote:I don't agree

    maybe it's because i'm zeki, maybe not

    I mean, ofcourse they act awkward around each other, I mean damn do you remember the way they parted? Then they don't see each other for a whole year. I mean, it would be weird to start showing their love now. They have some serious issues they need to work out. This can only go awkward and stuff, considering the current situation.

    Honestly, I would be worried if it wasn't awkward. If they, after what happened, didn't act this way it would either mean 1. bad/unrealistic character design, or 2. it would mean they had a very flat relation before. So, i'm relieved their relation is starting to build up again in a very realistic manner.

    For their pervious conversation

    I think they were both lying.
    With Zero it's most obvious. We've seen him this entire 2nd arcade acting emotionless and numb. Towards Yuki the same. (I mean he did confess his feelings, and then she went too be with kaname, it would want to act as distant as possible) But remember the time when aido made a comment about yuuki, and if he were hime, he'd go get her and stuff.... He didn't react immediately, but a couple af chapters later ,he gets back to this, acting more emotional then the entire arcade (except for the ichiru-scene, but then he was alone)
    Furthermore, he continues to help yuuki, admits she hasn't changed (from the old yuuki, the one he loved), and so on..


    Yuuki, is more complicated, as the whole love-triangle thing hasn't been cleared out yet. so this would begoing back to the good old discussion again (does yuuki love zero). I don't intend to get into this, because it wil probably stay a discussion till the end of the series. What we can see , is that she cares. You can't deny that.



    To me their relationship is far from over. I don't mean they'll be the endgame. We never know. But then again, not being the endgame doesn't mean there aren't any feelings




    sFun_hailbig i couldn't agree more!!! either zeki or yume have the same chances to be the final pairing!!!
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Shoujo-Zo18 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:48 am

    _Dr.Mika_ wrote:
    Anneliezz wrote:I don't agree

    maybe it's because i'm zeki, maybe not

    I mean, ofcourse they act awkward around each other, I mean damn do you remember the way they parted? Then they don't see each other for a whole year. I mean, it would be weird to start showing their love now. They have some serious issues they need to work out. This can only go awkward and stuff, considering the current situation.

    Honestly, I would be worried if it wasn't awkward. If they, after what happened, didn't act this way it would either mean 1. bad/unrealistic character design, or 2. it would mean they had a very flat relation before. So, i'm relieved their relation is starting to build up again in a very realistic manner.

    For their pervious conversation

    I think they were both lying.
    With Zero it's most obvious. We've seen him this entire 2nd arcade acting emotionless and numb. Towards Yuki the same. (I mean he did confess his feelings, and then she went too be with kaname, it would want to act as distant as possible) But remember the time when aido made a comment about yuuki, and if he were hime, he'd go get her and stuff.... He didn't react immediately, but a couple af chapters later ,he gets back to this, acting more emotional then the entire arcade (except for the ichiru-scene, but then he was alone)
    Furthermore, he continues to help yuuki, admits she hasn't changed (from the old yuuki, the one he loved), and so on..


    Yuuki, is more complicated, as the whole love-triangle thing hasn't been cleared out yet. so this would begoing back to the good old discussion again (does yuuki love zero). I don't intend to get into this, because it wil probably stay a discussion till the end of the series. What we can see , is that she cares. You can't deny that.



    To me their relationship is far from over. I don't mean they'll be the endgame. We never know. But then again, not being the endgame doesn't mean there aren't any feelings




    sFun_hailbig i couldn't agree more!!! either zeki or yume have the same chances to be the final pairing!!!

    My thoughts exactly!! Very Happy The awkwardness/detachment for both parties is natural, and quite frankly... shouldn't be criticized. :/ With what they've both been through I'd say they're way of dealing is very normal. I agree that their relationship is far from over... and that Yuuki's true feelings on everything probably won't be known til the end of the series. She cares about Zero.... that much is obvious. However there is the "potential" ( which alot of people deny exists) for her being/falling in love with Zero. We shall see what happens with her being back at his side. >3
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by _Dr.Mika_ on Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:11 pm

    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    _Dr.Mika_ wrote:
    Anneliezz wrote:I don't agree

    maybe it's because i'm zeki, maybe not

    I mean, ofcourse they act awkward around each other, I mean damn do you remember the way they parted? Then they don't see each other for a whole year. I mean, it would be weird to start showing their love now. They have some serious issues they need to work out. This can only go awkward and stuff, considering the current situation.

    Honestly, I would be worried if it wasn't awkward. If they, after what happened, didn't act this way it would either mean 1. bad/unrealistic character design, or 2. it would mean they had a very flat relation before. So, i'm relieved their relation is starting to build up again in a very realistic manner.

    For their pervious conversation

    I think they were both lying.
    With Zero it's most obvious. We've seen him this entire 2nd arcade acting emotionless and numb. Towards Yuki the same. (I mean he did confess his feelings, and then she went too be with kaname, it would want to act as distant as possible) But remember the time when aido made a comment about yuuki, and if he were hime, he'd go get her and stuff.... He didn't react immediately, but a couple af chapters later ,he gets back to this, acting more emotional then the entire arcade (except for the ichiru-scene, but then he was alone)
    Furthermore, he continues to help yuuki, admits she hasn't changed (from the old yuuki, the one he loved), and so on..


    Yuuki, is more complicated, as the whole love-triangle thing hasn't been cleared out yet. so this would begoing back to the good old discussion again (does yuuki love zero). I don't intend to get into this, because it wil probably stay a discussion till the end of the series. What we can see , is that she cares. You can't deny that.



    To me their relationship is far from over. I don't mean they'll be the endgame. We never know. But then again, not being the endgame doesn't mean there aren't any feelings




    sFun_hailbig i couldn't agree more!!! either zeki or yume have the same chances to be the final pairing!!!

    My thoughts exactly!! Very Happy The awkwardness/detachment for both parties is natural, and quite frankly... shouldn't be criticized. :/ With what they've both been through I'd say they're way of dealing is very normal. I agree that their relationship is far from over... and that Yuuki's true feelings on everything probably won't be known til the end of the series. She cares about Zero.... that much is obvious. However there is the "potential" ( which alot of people deny exists) for her being/falling in love with Zero. We shall see what happens with her being back at his side. >3
    WELL I AM SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT FINALY SOMEONE HAS THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME!!!! Smile THANK YOU
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    Shoujo-Zo18
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Shoujo-Zo18 on Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:07 pm

    _Dr.Mika_ wrote:
    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    _Dr.Mika_ wrote: sFun_hailbig i couldn't agree more!!! either zeki or yume have the same chances to be the final pairing!!!

    My thoughts exactly!! Very Happy The awkwardness/detachment for both parties is natural, and quite frankly... shouldn't be criticized. :/ With what they've both been through I'd say they're way of dealing is very normal. I agree that their relationship is far from over... and that Yuuki's true feelings on everything probably won't be known til the end of the series. She cares about Zero.... that much is obvious. However there is the "potential" ( which alot of people deny exists) for her being/falling in love with Zero. We shall see what happens with her being back at his side. >3
    WELL I AM SO HAPPY TO SEE THAT FINALY SOMEONE HAS THE SAME THOUGHTS AS ME!!!! Smile THANK YOU

    No problem! Very Happy It's nice to have someone on your side once in awhile huh? x3 Thank YOU too! sLo_BigBearHug
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by SilverAngel on Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:28 am

    YAY! THis is my first post!

    wow...this is a hard topic (in my opinion). Personally I don't feel that zeki is completely over. Whenever the two characters interact you can tell there is something between them. Also, when Yuuki was with Kaname she admitted that she did desire Zero's blood, which means she still cares about him right? RIGHT?!?!?! And as for Zero, it's pretty obvious that he still cares for yuuki although he seems to be taking the "suffer in silence" route
    Right now things seem to be in that "awkward" state, hopefully in the upcoming chapters things will pick up a bit Very Happy
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by Kara on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:15 pm

    SilverAngel wrote:YAY! THis is my first post!

    sSig_welcome5

    Hi SilverAngel!! Welcome to the forum cheers It's always great to see new users here sLo_BigBearHug


    ---

    In regards to this thread's topic:

    I don’t think that Zeki is over. Same goes for Yume. Very Happy

    Neither ship will come to a complete ‘end’ until this manga series comes to its conclusion, because no-one other than Matsuri Hino knows what is to come in future chapters. Smile

    Forget for just a moment about the story itself, and consider VK for what it actually is; a manga series. Matsuri Hino, Vampire Knight’s creator, is a mangaka. She devises the story’s plot and draws the manga because it is her job; ‘Vampire Knight’ is how she makes her living. As a mangaka, Hino will aim to create a story that will draw in as many fans as possible, because more readers interested in her manga = more money to be made. In order to keep her fans, the story has to go in a direction that will continue to appeal to all her avid readers; whether they be Zeki, Yume or otherwise. This is sometimes done through ‘fan-service’, and sometimes it’s a side plot revolving less around the main plot and more around an individual character’s development.

    Even if Hino doesn’t plan on making Zeki endgame, we can rest assured that there will still be a lot of Zeki to come, no matter which direction the story may take. While the canonical ‘Yume’ couple is still widely popular, I’m sure Hino knows that there are still a LOT of fans that are invested in the ‘Zeki’ ship as well. Smile

    Hino alternates these characters’ time on the pages in order to please both groups of fans and give them something to mule over. Think about it. The majority of the first arc didn’t include as many intimate scenes between Yuuki and Kaname because she still believed / was a human. She was by Zero’s side, living her life as a guardian. After that, ‘Yume’ has had its turn, with Zero’s appearances almost completely separate from Kaname and Yuuki. This went on for nearly 40 chapters or so. Now with Kaname’s departure, it’s back to ‘Zeki’.

    I’m not saying that Zeki will get together. Shocked I’m saying that it is still possible. After all, it’s fiction. Hino has complete creative control here; she can make anything happen. Who knows? It could be interesting to see how Hino would go about reconciling and evolving their previous relationship.

    Either way, I think we can expect to see more scenes involving Zero and Yuuki interacting, teaming up, fighting, etc. Because this way Hino can please as many readers as possible, so fans will continue to crave more of their ships’ scenes and they will keep reading and buying VK manga; resulting in a steadfast income for Matsuri Hino.

    Anyway, enough about criterions of profit Razz


    ---

    I’ll focus on the story itself now, and my answer to this thread’s question is still the same.

    The reason Zeki can’t be over is because Yuuki and Zero have never been together as a couple. A relationship can’t ‘end’ before it’s even begun. Shocked That’s like saying that a couple wants to file for divorce when they never got married in the first place. It doesn’t make sense. scratch

    Has Yuuki’s desire to reconnect with Zero waned? Does Zero no longer care for Yuuki in a romantic way? Hypothetically, if Kaname hadn’t been in the picture, would Zero have wanted to pursue Yuuki?

    Maybe. I don’t know. The story didn’t unfold that way, so no fan can claim to know for certain. And those are entirely different questions to the topic of this thread regardless. The question being asked is ‘Do you think Zeki is over?’, and I think that it isn’t. In my opinion, a ship isn’t ‘over’ while a series is still ongoing and there are still fans rooting for them to get together.

    Remember that ‘shipping’ is initiated by fans. As long as there is still one fan hoping for a romantic relationship between Zero and Yuuki (no matter their actual relationship within the manga), the Zeki ship will exist. Ships can even continue after a manga has reached it’s conclusion; through fan-fiction, drawings, video tributes and so on. cheers These sorts of things don't even have to relate to the actual story; they're just really fun! Very Happy

    It’s an entirely different question to ask about ships than it is to ask about the likelihood of a relationship within the manga. Perhaps a better question to ask was this:

    Within the story itself, is the potential for a romantic relationship between Zero and Yuuki ‘over’?

    I’ll assume that this is the question Sweetsolace had intended with this thread. Bearing in mind, however, that this thread was initially created towards the conclusion of 2011. So it would have been back when things were still tense (well…tenser Razz) between them, and before Zero and Yuuki became ‘allies’. scratch

    Whether it’s romantic or not, I feel it’s safe to assume that Zero definitely still feels something for Yuuki. Like in Chapter 81, which I have referenced below.

    This was the first chapter in a while where Zero’s stoic façade began to show cracks. He has recently learned that Kaname was responsible for Shizuka’s release, which led to the massacre of his loved ones. He hates and has sworn revenge on Kaname, who has just slipped through his fingers again like always.

    As you would expect, Zero was visibly upset by this. So Zero instinctively reached out and pulled Yuuki close. As he is the one with his arms around her, it’s clear that Zero is the one embracing Yuuki here:

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/30

    He knows their circumstances, knows that because they are vampire and hunter (and also because he said so himself at their parting during the first arc) they are technically ‘enemies’. But Zero still couldn’t help it; he can’t help the way he feels. Ever since the beginning, Yuuki has been Zero’s source of comfort. Similar to when Yuuki called Kaname ‘her Kaname’ and started to move towards him, we know that Zero hugging Yuuki was also a subconscious sort of reaction for him, because on the very next page Zero then seemed to realize what he was doing, remembered the circumstances that they’re in and pushes her roughly away from him:

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/31

    So from that I think we can gather that while Zero may not show it on the surface, we now know that his feelings for Yuuki haven’t waned over their past year of separation.


    As for Yuuki…. we don’t really know what’s going on in her head about this. What we do know, and what there can be no argument about, is that Yuuki loves Zero. That much is indisputable, because she herself as explicitly thought AND stated this within the manga. She misses their bond, and she wants to reconcile her relationship with Zero. Their previous relationship was a deep friendship, where they were each others’ shoulder to lean on, so to speak. Yuuki was always there for him when he was in physical or emotional pain, and Zero was there to hold and comfort Yuuki when she worried over her loss of memory. If things were to go back to the same way it was with them, then they would merely be good friends and Zero would continue to have those deeper (..and perhaps unrequited? We don’t know) feelings for Yuuki.

    Though Yuuki may say she wants to return to exactly how they once were, I don’t think this is possible (even if they do become friends again). It would be different because Yuuki now knows that Zero once had romantic feelings for her (which she was entirely oblivious about before). He hugged and then kissed her, so it was pretty obvious. What Yuuki may not realize is that he loves her that way still.

    But as I said, we don’t know. We’ll just have to keep waiting for the next VK installment each month and see how things pan out between them. While there’s no evidence to claim that Yuuki definitely has some deeper feelings for Zero buried within her heart, there is also no way to deny the possibility. Therefore, there is still potential for ‘Zeki’ to get together.

    Sure, it may seem unlikely to a lot of Yume supporters, especially when you consider that VK may be coming to its conclusion. There are only so many more chapters to be published, and it’s a common argument that there is not enough time for any sort of deeper relationship to develop between them. But because we don’t have a definite number of chapters, we can only guess at VK’s duration. And while I enjoy reading Yume moments in recent chapters, I also find Zeki moments just as interesting. Even though Yuuki’s attachment to Zero is rather ambiguous, there is still that aspect of ‘forbidden love’ were she ever to return his feelings.



    Yuuki Kuran is a Pureblood vampire princess.
    Zero Kiryu, while also a lesser ‘Level D’ vampire, is primarily a Vampire Hunter who carries a profound grudge against purebloods.



    Many users on this forum know that when I first joined, I was a hardcore Zeki fan. It’s that vampire / vampire hunter combination that appealed to me personally so much in the past. It’s a contradiction, really. On the surface, you wouldn’t think it could ever work. Like that ‘lion and the lamb’ analogy, where one has reason to go against the other, and where they are on opposing sides. There is a lot more to it in Yuuki and Zero’s case, but that’s the general gist of it.

    ---
    (This somewhat applies to Yume right now as well, since they’re technically on ‘opposing sides’ at the moment, yet still ‘together’ so maybe that’s why I’ve grown to really like Yume in recent chapters Razz Anyway, off topic Sorry Razz)

    ---

    Remember that this is all hypothetical, of course. Yuuki and Zero aren’t a couple. So far, they are only allies. They aren’t even friends yet. This is mere speculation on my part.

    But it’s human (or in this case ‘vampire’ Razz) nature to want what we can’t have. And it’s those ‘impossible’ kinds of relationships that can be so intriguing.

    But the thing about ‘star-crossed lovers’ is that they hardly ever get their way. So even if Yuuki somehow comes to an unexpected revelation that some part of her heart as always loved Zero as more than a friend, things never seem to go right for Zero Sad He has such a sad history; so many terrible things have happened to him already in his life, and he is only 18 years old! Evil or Very Mad My biggest fear in VK is that Zero never gets any semblance of a happy ending Crying or Very sad

    To summarize:

    There will always be fans of Vampire Knight who like the idea of Zero and Yuuki becoming a couple, and there is still potential for Zero and Yuuki's relationship to evolve. As long as these two things are true, the Zeki ship isn’t over. I think the Zeki ship will be sticking around for a while to come.
    Because it’s the absurdity and near impossibility of Yuuki and Zero ever being together as lovers which makes the thought so appealing…and, well, hot.


    (Also, as a side note, I'm sorry that this post is so long-winded. I hadn't intended for it to get so long, but it's like how I am in everyday life; once I start talking, I just go on and on and on Razz Sorry in advance if I've said anything to upset anyone. These are just my thoughts on the matter right now. If anyone responds to my post quickly, I'll try to answer as soon as possible but it may be a while because tonight is my last night of internet access for a whole week pale So if I don't reply straight away, it's only because I'm not here Sad )


    Last edited by Kara on Tue Jul 10, 2012 5:51 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Lots and lots of grammatical errors...)
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    lililovelilica
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by lililovelilica on Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:09 am

    I'm not gonna be neither positive or negative here
    I think the same way Yume isn't over cause Yuuki said:
    -"My Kaname is over there!"

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/4
    Zeki and Yume isn't over because the Manga is a riddle!

    Yuuki cut her hair and decided to STOP KANAME!NOT KILL KANAME!
    I wish Zeki people dont misunderstand this part ok?

    I'm a Yume fan so of course i'm willing to Hino for a KanamexYuuki final,But i won't go against the other fans,we just have to sit and wait for the final moments...
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    kanachanimmortal
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by kanachanimmortal on Wed Jul 11, 2012 5:20 am

    lililovelilica wrote:I'm not gonna be neither positive or negative here
    I think the same way Yume isn't over cause Yuuki said:
    -"My Kaname is over there!"

    http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/4
    Zeki and Yume isn't over because the Manga is a riddle!

    Yuuki cut her hair and decided to STOP KANAME!NOT KILL KANAME!
    I wish Zeki people dont misunderstand this part ok?

    I'm a Yume fan so of course i'm willing to Hino for a KanamexYuuki final,But i won't go against the other fans,we just have to sit and wait for the final moments...

    yeah we should wait for final.
    i think the only way zeki can be together is after kaname's death and i doubt yuuki's feelings for kaname,after she became a vamp she never behaved normally with him,i don't know i never saw the deep love in her eyes.there is also a speculation that she is kaname's past wife but seeing her bond with zero i don't think she is,well his past wife can't be a stupid slut.
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    2rsa
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by 2rsa on Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:59 am

    I'm so sorry for bumping an old topic but I just had to say this.With only 2 chapters left,It's kinda ironic how Yuuki and Zero are still in the friend zone.They ran out of time. :don't speak:
    *Hides under the bed*
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    juliet
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by juliet on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:20 pm

    With Hino on board, i doubt that i could trust her as a yume fan even to this; let me say it otherwise, if Kaname gets killed, then she could make a possible open end zeki. How does that sound?







    I' ll show you a sweet dream next time
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    nina
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    Re: Do you think ZEKI is over?

    Post by nina on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:39 pm

    2rsa wrote:I'm so sorry for bumping an old topic but I just had to say this.With only 2 chapters left,It's kinda ironic how Yuuki and Zero are still in the friend zone.They ran out of time. :don't speak:
    *Hides under the bed*

    I just couldn’t resist… I had to comment about this avatar of yours!!!!!
    It is your fanart 2rsa; isn’t it? I can’t be wrong … I saw it at DA and confiscated it pronto for my Kaname files ho ho ho!
    Congrats! I’m looking forward for MORE!!! *squeals*

    Sorry … end of the off topic lol


    juliet wrote:With Hino on board, i doubt that i could trust her as a yume fan even to this; let me say it otherwise, if Kaname gets killed, then she could make a possible open end zeki. How does that sound?


    Terrible! I know what you mean but in my books this ain’t considered as Zeki… open or whateva …
    Anyway for me if Kaname dies … I couldn’t care less for anything else *shrugs*


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