Is Zero still manipulated by Kaname?

We know that Kaname has manipulated Zero to make him kill his the worst enemy- Rido. Is he doing it still?
It seems that Kaname has a plan, it's possible that a main point of his plan is Yuuki and Zero. Perhaps he expected such behaviour from Zero and he still needs it to achieve his goal. What do you think about it?

In what way do you mean that? Predicting a behaviour is not manipulation,its irrelevant if that behavior benefits someone or does not.

And to make it more clear I do not believe that Zero was ever manipulated from kaname. Zero always had a certain attitude and certain goals in mind, Kaname aided Zero to survive there and to pass the level-e issue. Did also Zero manipulated Kaname for taking his blood (he took advantage of Kaname's feelings for Yuuki) also in order to stay alive.

Of course, I think "manipulated" in the way of predicting someone's behaviour. Kaname understands Zero perfectly so he uses his steps to realize his own plans. He must know that Zero never hurts Yuuki and he still would be her knight. It seems that he understands that Zero wouldn't try to kill him because his desire to vanish pureblood vampire is stronger that his hateing of Kaname.

Akaruisama wrote:Of course, I think "manipulated" in the way of predicting someone's behaviour.

predicting something is not used to mean "manipulation"...or I never heard it.

Kaname understands Zero perfectly so he uses his steps to realize his own plans. He must know that Zero never hurts Yuuki and he still would be her knight. It seems that he understands that Zero wouldn't try to kill him because his desire to vanish pureblood vampire is stronger that his hateing of Kaname.

No, Its Zero who manipulates Kaname because he predicts (or thinks he predicts) that Kaname will kill all purebloods and Zero takes advantage of kaname in order to fulfill his own plans, which he has not the power to fulfill on his own.

As for kaname, yes he probably knows that Zero can not harm Yuuki and rests in peace but how does that make Kaname manipulate Zero? in this sense all the babysitters are being manipulated since the mothers and fathers can predict (or assume) that their children can be safe. It think its just that simple.

well sorry to say this but kaname is not manipulating zero at all this time. kaname is doing what he wants to from a long time just where does zero even fit in the equation.

and as for him manipulating zero at the time to kill rido he did him a favour by letting him kill the man who destroyed his life by giving shizuka's lover name to hunter list and in turn aggravating shizuka.even now zero's goal of killing all purebloods is being fulfilled by kaname to a little extent that he killed heads of families.

zero should be thanking kaname that he gets to be with his friend yuki a little before kaname marries yuki and they live together.[i hope so and want it. ]

kaname cant kill rido even in ch 58 end that grotesque form of rido is still seen who knows whethr he really is dead or not.

juliet wrote:

Akaruisama wrote:Of course, I think "manipulated" in the way of predicting someone's behaviour.

predicting something is not used to mean "manipulation"...or I never heard it.

Kaname understands Zero perfectly so he uses his steps to realize his own plans. He must know that Zero never hurts Yuuki and he still would be her knight. It seems that he understands that Zero wouldn't try to kill him because his desire to vanish pureblood vampire is stronger that his hateing of Kaname.

No, Its Zero who manipulates Kaname because he predicts (or thinks he predicts) that Kaname will kill all purebloods and Zero takes advantage of kaname in order to fulfill his own plans, which he has not the power to fulfill on his own.

As for kaname, yes he probably knows that Zero can not harm Yuuki and rests in peace but how does that make Kaname manipulate Zero? in this sense all the babysitters are being manipulated since the mothers and fathers can predict (or assume) that their children can be safe. It think its just that simple.

I completely agree Juliet.

Zero is not manipulating Kaname. He's using him by letting Kaname kill the purebloods for him but he did not in any way influence Kaname to make that decision.

while i don't exactly agree that zero is manipulating kaname, i do believe that he thinks he is using kaname's actions to his advantage. now kaname on the other hand i think is "using" zero just as zero is "using" kaname. kaname has always referred his battles agenst purebloods to a chess game and i think that zero has always been apart of those plans. whether it be for yuki or to help him with the bigger plan in killing off the purebloods. either way to me it always seems that everything even with the unexpected actions along the way kaname has always been able to get his plan of action back on track. so i woldnt use the word manipulating even if neither of them like the other but i would definatly agree with kaname using zero, as "his" vampire knight! lol.

Amaran wrote:Zero is not manipulating Kaname. He's using him by letting Kaname kill the purebloods for him but he did not in any way influence Kaname to make that decision.

ambi9942* wrote: while i don't exactly agree that zero is manipulating kaname, i do believe that he thinks he is using kaname's actions to his advantage. now kaname on the other hand i think is "using" zero just as zero is "using" kaname. kaname has always referred his battles agenst purebloods to a chess game and i think that zero has always been apart of those plans. whether it be for yuki or to help him with the bigger plan in killing off the purebloods. either way to me it always seems that everything even with the unexpected actions along the way kaname has always been able to get his plan of action back on track. so i woldnt use the word manipulating even if neither of them like the other but i would definatly agree with kaname using zero, as "his" vampire knight! lol.

I did not say that Zero is manipulating Kaname, neither I believe that Kaname had manipulated Zero, I just applied Akaruisama's point to emphasize how the term "manipulation" used did not fit the decription, or else there are more serious "manipulations" going around..that we can take notice of.

I hope its understandable, if Kaname manipulates Zero for taking care of Yuuki (that also a debate but that's not the point) what can we say for Zero and his urge to kill purebloods, now fulfilled from Kaname. Hope it's clear and no meant to insult anything, but its the logical conclusion after this.

No, Zero is not being manipulated by Kaname. Manipulation is synonymous
of absense of liberty.

In this case, Zero and Kaname has the same goal: they want to protect
Yuki. Zero is protecting Yuki freely (as always). This is a common point between them.

Kaname is killing PB. This is a Zero´s desire. Zero is not moving a finger to get something he always wanted. And that's great. This is one more thing in common.

Basically, this is an implicit exchange.

I wouldn't call it manipulation. It's the same theme from the beginning of the story. Kaname knows Zero will play his part of protecting Yuki no matter what he says.

This chapter pretty much spelled out that the HA will eventually want to kill Yuuki too because she is a PB. When that time comes, Zero won't let that happen despite his front.

Yuuki really showed she is smarter than she appears in this chapter.

I used a wrong word. I wanted to write about influence someone's behaviour or useing sameone's action. Maybe Kaname is putting Zero in his plans about Yuuki like before. He could kill that pureblood seeing by Caien and Yuuki on purpose, because he knew that Yuuki would have been taking to Hunter Assossiation and it would give her a chance to get close to Zero one more time? It's nothing bad when he is thinking in that way.
So i'm very sorry for this misunderstanding.

I don't think Kaname is manipulating Zero anymore ( THANK GOD!!) I don't even see how that would be a possibility..? Kaname's been running around doing his own thing. He's got purebloods to kill,annoying obstacles to push out of the way, why would he care about zero? I think he'd rather Zero be dead but for now, no. I don't think Zero is on his list of people to use. Kaien's got that position filled. Maybe " Sara is next"? lol

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote: I don't think Kaname is manipulating Zero anymore ( THANK GOD!!) I don't even see how that would be a possibility..? Kaname's been running around doing his own thing. He's got purebloods to kill,annoying obstacles to push out of the way, why would he care about zero? I think he'd rather Zero be dead but for now, no. I don't think Zero is on his list of people to use. Kaien's got that position filled. Maybe " Sara is next"? lol

I agree Kaname isn't manipulating Zero... But I never expected him to use Kaien to kill Touma like that... That was really manipulative of him... Yes Sara does seem to be his next target though...

I know, that was really horrible of that Kuran! Poor Touma... He was probably sitting at home, sipping his tea... and along comes sneaky sneaky kaname... " Hello Touma..."
Touma:*spews tea everywhere* How did you get in my house?!?!
Kaname: I have my ways...>3 Never mind that though. I need to use your body. * envelops him with the bats*
Touma: AAAAAHHH!! DX

Kaname strikes again... O.O

the question is asking about whether zero is being manipulated by kaname. where did touma come in. he was already injured when he hurt yuuki in chs 59 and 58.

Actually the question wasn't whether zero is being manipulative...? It says " Is Zero still being manipulated by Kaname
And Touma came in because we're on the topic of kaname manipulating people. It's really not that off-topic.

yeah but it is off topic it talks about zero not touma.
this isnt a thread for kaname manipulating people. you should post your theories in what happened to touma thread.

Vanille-chan wrote:No, Zero is not being manipulated by Kaname. Manipulation is synonymous
of absense of liberty.

In this case, Zero and Kaname has the same goal: they want to protect
Yuki. Zero is protecting Yuki freely (as always). This is a common point between them.

Kaname is killing PB. This is a Zero´s desire. Zero is not moving a finger to get something he always wanted. And that's great. This is one more thing in common.

Basically, this is an implicit exchange.

Agreed.

To me, Kaname seems very perceptive of the people around him and understands them better then I think they understand themselves. To be he didn’t manipulate Zero. He knew what Zero was like in his personality, his actions and his attitude. To me Kaname works his plan’s around others and utilises their potential and skills, like any leader natural does when they are executing a plan. It’s not manipulating, its using what you have available to you, and also Zero did allow himself and even volunteered to protect Yuuki of his own choice. Zero wanted to protect Yuuki. Kaname knew Zero’s feelings, knew he would protect Yuuki and thus decided on him as Yuuki’s shield. He utilised what was there and incorporated Zero into his plans, sort of like a general on a battlefield positioning the troops.

If we look at the manga to me Kaname and Zero have helped each other. They both eliminated each other’s masters; Kaname killed Shizuka, while Zero killed Rido.

Bloodredhead wrote:

Vanille-chan wrote:No, Zero is not being manipulated by Kaname. Manipulation is synonymous
of absense of liberty.

In this case, Zero and Kaname has the same goal: they want to protect
Yuki. Zero is protecting Yuki freely (as always). This is a common point between them.

Kaname is killing PB. This is a Zero´s desire. Zero is not moving a finger to get something he always wanted. And that's great. This is one more thing in common.

Basically, this is an implicit exchange.

Agreed.

To me, Kaname seems very perceptive of the people around him and understands them better then I think they understand themselves. To be he didn’t manipulate Zero. He knew what Zero was like in his personality, his actions and his attitude. To me Kaname works his plan’s around others and utilises their potential and skills, like any leader natural does when they are executing a plan. It’s not manipulating, its using what you have available to you, and also Zero did allow himself and even volunteered to protect Yuuki of his own choice. Zero wanted to protect Yuuki. Kaname knew Zero’s feelings, knew he would protect Yuuki and thus decided on him as Yuuki’s shield. He utilised what was there and incorporated Zero into his plans, sort of like a general on a battlefield positioning the troops.

If we look at the manga to me Kaname and Zero have helped each other. They both eliminated each other’s masters; Kaname killed Shizuka, while Zero killed Rido.

Awesome post and logic Red! I completely agree!

Indeed, they helped each other.