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    Meaningless sacrifice

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    aya-chan
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    Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by aya-chan on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:29 am

    While reading chapter 61, I noticed the following word in kaname's reply>>>meaningless

    Kaname to yuuki: I'm frightened that one day you'll give up your life for something meaningless, yuuki. I don't want to experience that again.

    My opinion is that this word is not reffering at the previous sacrifice belonging to hooded woman. And that because, even if hooded woman sacrificed her life, her sacrfice wasn't meaningless.

    1. drinking her blood first hunters appeard
    2. anti-vampire weapons were created
    3. human extinction was stopped.

    My opinion is that he's reffering to someone else, maybe the first queen of kuran>>>kaname's past wife.

    Share your thoughts about this!
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by emogirl4evr on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:32 am

    aya-chan wrote:While reading chapter 61, I noticed the following word in kaname's reply>>>meaningless

    Kaname to yuuki: I'm frightened that one day you'll give up your life for something meaningless, yuuki. I don't want to experience that again.

    My opinion is that this word is not reffering at the previous sacrifice belonging to hooded woman. And that because, even if hooded woman sacrificed her life, her sacrfice wasn't meaningless.

    1. drinking her blood first hunters appeard
    2. anti-vampire weapons were created
    3. human extinction was stopped.

    My opinion is that he's reffering to someone else, maybe the first queen of kuran>>>kaname's past wife.

    Share your thoughts about this!
    well i think he is saying that he is afraid of loseing yukki . or he just dosen't want to see her life be wasted
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Bloodredhead on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:38 am

    aya-chan wrote:While reading chapter 61, I noticed the following word in kaname's reply>>>meaningless

    Kaname to yuuki: I'm frightened that one day you'll give up your life for something meaningless, yuuki. I don't want to experience that again.

    My opinion is that this word is not reffering at the previous sacrifice belonging to hooded woman. And that because, even if hooded woman sacrificed her life, her sacrfice wasn't meaningless.

    1. drinking her blood first hunters appeard
    2. anti-vampire weapons were created
    3. human extinction was stopped.

    My opinion is that he's reffering to someone else, maybe the first queen of kuran>>>kaname's past wife.

    Share your thoughts about this!

    Agreed meaningless implies that even if it happened it would have no effect in the outcome. So yuuki sacrificing herself would have no effect on the outcome of this war.

    As you say it can't be in relation to HW's sacrifice as her sacrifice was anything but meaningless. Her death gave humans a way to protect themsleves from vampires.

    Now it could be his first wife as we know nothing of her death and nothing positive seemed to happened after HW's death. So maybe the Queen from the past sacrificed herself but it had no effect, nothing changed.

    If her saying it was menaingless in relation to his past Queen then to me that implies that the threat they know face is from the past or stems from there.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Akaruisama on Thu Nov 17, 2011 12:46 am

    Interesting topic cheers
    I also think Kaname didn't think about the sacrifice of this hooded women, because her sacrifica wasn't meaningless.

    I rather think Kaname considers all kind of sacrifices as meanigless. What is able to be noticed, Kaname is rather pesimist, he see the world as a place full of devil, hartress and unjustice. He is somehow cynical and non kind of violency or crime is going to astonish him.

    It is natural when we find that he have seen so much in his long life that now, he has no hope.
    Kaname had been in despair before he met this hooded women and she brought in some shine into his lonely life. But before he admitted his own feelings she left.

    I think Kaname consider Yuuki as one of this extremely rare sunsine in this cruel, ugly world so he tries so much to protect it from being destroyed.

    In that case her sacrifice would be a last blow for him. Especially that it would be meaningless because this world never changes, only this shine of her would be lost.

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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by nina on Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:10 pm

    Very interesting theme indeed aya-chan! cheers bounce

    Well what can I say more? I do agree with you. I had always my doubts about on who Kaname was referring to, with the meaningless sacrifice.

    I know that one obvious interpretation is to be referred on HW’s sacrifice cuz it was her story that Kaname has shown after to Yuuki through his memory/blood.
    But as you also pointed out was her sacrifice meaningless or for a lost cause?
    In my POV no. Cuz maybe it wasn’t enough to change the world completely but she and Kaname saved the human kind from doom. With the creation of the anti-vampire weapons, the hunters and the wars back in the past they reversed the situation. As Kaname said to the first hunters >> “Your enemies are those fools who continue to believe they can’t have their lives taken away by you.”

    So her sacrifice wasn’t at all meaningless from that aspect since the humans/hunters had the power to kill PBs/vampires and defend themselves.

    Also another thing that I think is adding on our speculations > On the cover for volume 14 says “Kaname finally begins to move. There will be a big sacrifice!!”
    (the volume 14 is not out yet in English edition but only in Japanese. So I got this translation from a friend fluent in Japanese.)

    Now the volume 14 contains the sacrifice of the HW (starts with chapter 64) and Hino has characterized this sacrifice as big on the cover! How possible is then to put Kaname to characterise this “big sacrifice” as meaningless while it has change the course of the history? Is the salvation of the humans’ race meaningless?

    My feeling is that Kaname wanted to make a point to Yuuki through HW’s sacrifice cuz as he said was frightened that one day Yuuki will give up her life for something meaningless and he didn’t want to experience that for second time << i.e. the first meaningless sacrifice was from another beloved person to him … >> which is hinted from the scene where Kaname grieving over the shattered mirror.
    This scene must have taken place long after HW’s sacrifice.

    Hints >>

    1. Right after HW’s sacrifice he starts the creation of the first weapons and giving wisdom to the hunters >>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-8/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-13/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-14/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-15/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

    2. But when Yuuki talks to him and names the weapon Artemis there are signs that the period is different >>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-22/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-25/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

    He is wearing different clothes, he holds Artemis and Bloody Rose in their full form, he is in a battle field, he has comrades ready to go for another battle > “Kaname san the other side has already converged. It seems like its going to be an even worse situation this time. << which means that they had given battles already and they were preparing for another big one.

    At that point there is no sign from Kuran family … Kaname seems to be all alone > Kaname: “I can hardly feel emotions anymore.” < I suppose this isn’t an emotional state for a man who has a family …
    But since we know that he is the ancestor of the Kurans he must have started his family with a woman … But how he could do that since the HW was already dead? The only logical explanation is that he made his family with someone else than the HW.

    3. Also in the scene with the shattered mirror there is one sign of family> Kurans mansion!
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

    The door with the emblem of Kurans. Also the crystals that Kaname holds into his hands probably it’s not only from the shattered mirror but from a dead PB.

    What I’m trying to say here is that at that scene Kaname maybe had already a family (thus and the mansion) and he was grieving for a beloved person > a wife that she sacrificed her life????

    Also as we saw his “narration” to Yuuki didn’t contain any info about their family tree … it stopped just before that battle takes place. Why? Why he didn’t disclose the part of his life when he was king and started his family?

    I think the reason is because he didn’t want to disclose to Yuuki the root of his grief/tragedy i.e. the meaningless sacrifice … The question though is why?
    My mind goes that what Kaname kept as secret somehow is related with Yuuki and his course of action currently … Maybe he is trying to change the conditions (threats) that drove his wife in the past to sacrifice her life thus he can’t reveal to Yuuki nothing until the same conditions aren’t apply in the present anymore i.e. he is trying to reverse the previous outcome this time.
    And IF Yuuki is a reincarnation of his deceased wife he has another reason for keeping her in the dark >> he wants to finish with his plan before Yuuki “remembers” or “discovers” her past life …





    "... I want to fall down with you to the very farthest depths ... taint me too Kaname"



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    juliet
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by juliet on Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:03 pm

    Very interesting observation here. Other questions that can be related to the "meaningless" characterization is...

    -how can Kaname be certain that Yuuki is going to act in such a way (sacrificing her life) and this opinion that he has overshadows everything so much that he sets out to make for her the world safer as he had promised her as a child? This promise to her is an old one and it seems that Kaname even in his childhood considered Yuuki's existence to be important, far enough for him to sacrifice himself if needed.

    But how does he know (always seems to know) how she will act, what decisions will she take and which path she is going to follow? in combination with the meaningless sacrifice, it hints that Kaname knows Yuuki, even before Yuuki knew herself as a child, a human, a pureblood. It sounds like a deja-vu that he has there and this deja-vu is detached with the HW past, personality and history because as Nina provided the hints, Kaname continued after the HW.

    Kaname acts and talks with certainty that this is the way Yuuki will go...if he does not act.

    So to characterize the sacrifice meaningless it would mean that he does not believe in co-existence, but as we saw this can not possible because Kaname intended to sacrifice himself there to open the way for a better human future. And HW sacrifice was indeed great as she changed the history.

    So he talks of a sacrifice that has no point, neither now nor in the past as he says that he does not want to live this again. Therefore the question is: "Whose sacrifice was meaningless and why does he believe that Yuuki if she would sacrifice herself it would be over a meaningless cause?" Another premonition?

    Hino also excluded Yuri's and Haruka's sacrifice, leaving us to guess...






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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by theangelgirl1992 on Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:44 pm

    I am sure he is talking about his late wife and queen, and knowing Yuuki has some connection to that past queen. I am pretty sure that yuuki is reincarnation of his past love those hints of butterfly and butterfly and the desert and Kaname being to protective of her and not wanting to lose her AGAIN what I want to know is how the kurancest started. Kaname probably started the kurancest, but then he had to have a sister who also is a pureblood and fall in love with each other, and later figured out they where siblings.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by lililovelilica on Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:16 pm

    nina wrote:Very interesting theme indeed aya-chan! cheers bounce

    Well what can I say more? I do agree with you. I had always my doubts about on who Kaname was referring to, with the meaningless sacrifice.

    I know that one obvious interpretation is to be referred on HW’s sacrifice cuz it was her story that Kaname has shown after to Yuuki through his memory/blood.
    But as you also pointed out was her sacrifice meaningless or for a lost cause?
    In my POV no. Cuz maybe it wasn’t enough to change the world completely but she and Kaname saved the human kind from doom. With the creation of the anti-vampire weapons, the hunters and the wars back in the past they reversed the situation. As Kaname said to the first hunters >> “Your enemies are those fools who continue to believe they can’t have their lives taken away by you.”

    So her sacrifice wasn’t at all meaningless from that aspect since the humans/hunters had the power to kill PBs/vampires and defend themselves.

    Also another thing that I think is adding on our speculations > On the cover for volume 14 says “Kaname finally begins to move. There will be a big sacrifice!!”
    (the volume 14 is not out yet in English edition but only in Japanese. So I got this translation from a friend fluent in Japanese.)

    Now the volume 14 contains the sacrifice of the HW (starts with chapter 64) and Hino has characterized this sacrifice as big on the cover! How possible is then to put Kaname to characterise this “big sacrifice” as meaningless while it has change the course of the history? Is the salvation of the humans’ race meaningless?

    My feeling is that Kaname wanted to make a point to Yuuki through HW’s sacrifice cuz as he said was frightened that one day Yuuki will give up her life for something meaningless and he didn’t want to experience that for second time << i.e. the first meaningless sacrifice was from another beloved person to him … >> which is hinted from the scene where Kaname grieving over the shattered mirror.
    This scene must have taken place long after HW’s sacrifice.

    Hints >>

    1. Right after HW’s sacrifice he starts the creation of the first weapons and giving wisdom to the hunters >>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-8/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-13/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-14/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-15/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

    2. But when Yuuki talks to him and names the weapon Artemis there are signs that the period is different >>
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-22/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-25/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

    He is wearing different clothes, he holds Artemis and Bloody Rose in their full form, he is in a battle field, he has comrades ready to go for another battle > “Kaname san the other side has already converged. It seems like its going to be an even worse situation this time. << which means that they had given battles already and they were preparing for another big one.

    At that point there is no sign from Kuran family … Kaname seems to be all alone > Kaname: “I can hardly feel emotions anymore.” < I suppose this isn’t an emotional state for a man who has a family …
    But since we know that he is the ancestor of the Kurans he must have started his family with a woman … But how he could do that since the HW was already dead? The only logical explanation is that he made his family with someone else than the HW.

    3. Also in the scene with the shattered mirror there is one sign of family> Kurans mansion!
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

    The door with the emblem of Kurans. Also the crystals that Kaname holds into his hands probably it’s not only from the shattered mirror but from a dead PB.

    What I’m trying to say here is that at that scene Kaname maybe had already a family (thus and the mansion) and he was grieving for a beloved person > a wife that she sacrificed her life????

    Also as we saw his “narration” to Yuuki didn’t contain any info about their family tree … it stopped just before that battle takes place. Why? Why he didn’t disclose the part of his life when he was king and started his family?

    I think the reason is because he didn’t want to disclose to Yuuki the root of his grief/tragedy i.e. the meaningless sacrifice … The question though is why?
    My mind goes that what Kaname kept as secret somehow is related with Yuuki and his course of action currently … Maybe he is trying to change the conditions (threats) that drove his wife in the past to sacrifice her life thus he can’t reveal to Yuuki nothing until the same conditions aren’t apply in the present anymore i.e. he is trying to reverse the previous outcome this time.
    And IF Yuuki is a reincarnation of his deceased wife he has another reason for keeping her in the dark >> he wants to finish with his plan before Yuuki “remembers” or “discovers” her past life …
    First:He saw her in the past,as she wlaked in his memories,it was the same as walking to the past,that's why he knows her from the past,a person that could be a replacement for the hooded woman...
    scratch
    second:after living 10.000 years,even in a coffin,kaname has fighted a lot(it seems he commanded a few vampires in a past war)
    as a King maybe... sFun_hailtheking
    Third:The sacrifice-could be the HW or his past wife,it's not certain because hino-sensei haven't said anything more than that and yuuki just saw a fragment of kaname's past...
    So the plot on the manga and kaname's past,there's a lot to explain,also what Sarah Knows about Kaname,and who is still alive from the same age as Kaname,and his true enemy.
    From the time being i still want to see a good ending,Yuuki woth Kaname,and no BIG sacrifice.
    i'M sFun_cheerleader2 FOR THAT!
    but the ending is a mystery for me...
    any ideas ofr the end?
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Knightmare on Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:19 pm

    i think meaningless sacrifice means the hw, cos its the only sacrifice we've seen. and kaname had meant to be the one to do the sacrifice, she didn't need to do it, he would have done it - so it makes sense that he would think her sacrifice wasn't worth it. also, since the problems caused by the purebloods still exist, he would call it a lost cause cos they have to fight so much and in the end...it was all for nothin, all the problems are still the same. and none of the vampires appreciated what she did, zero says to aido that they don't mourn her for the sacrifice she made.

    nina wrote:
    Also another thing that I think is adding on our speculations > On the cover for volume 14 says “Kaname finally begins to move. There will be a big sacrifice!!”
    (the volume 14 is not out yet in English edition but only in Japanese. So I got this translation from a friend fluent in Japanese.)

    Now the volume 14 contains the sacrifice of the HW (starts with chapter 64) and Hino has characterized this sacrifice as big on the cover! How possible is then to put Kaname to characterise this “big sacrifice” as meaningless while it has change the course of the history? Is the salvation of the humans’ race meaningless?

    do you mean the back cover? with the yuuki pic? the english book the final sentence is "In response, Kaname finally makes his move, but at what cost?!" i can't see big sacrifice, but i think thats what you mean? there are no words on the front cover. i think this means his killing nagamichi. so big sacrifice is nagamichi.

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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by nina on Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:01 pm

    Knightmare wrote: do you mean the back cover? with the yuuki pic? the english book the final sentence is "In response, Kaname finally makes his move, but at what cost?!" i can't see big sacrifice, but i think thats what you mean? there are no words on the front cover. i think this means his killing nagamichi. so big sacrifice is nagamichi.

    It is the title of the promo from Lala magazine for volume 14. Sorry I didn’t specify this.

    This volume contains the sacrifice of the HW and the death of Aido-dono indeed. In my opinion firstly the sacrifice of the HW was “bigger” considering that changed the course of the history (saved the human race) and secondly we don’t know yet the purpose of Aido-dono’s death. I mean we do not know if it was a sacrifice or for what reason it happened etc. Plus the main theme of the volume is the past/ancestral times.

    So under that light the big sacrifice IMO fits better for the HW’s.





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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by gentle yuuki on Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:00 pm

    i totally agree .. and i consider this as a clue for the theory of yuuki being the ancestor of the kuran .. because without the word "meaningless" we would think that kaname was taking about " that women"

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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Orleans87 on Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:16 am

    excuse my insufficient English pale

    Maybe he still holds onto his past life and his feelings for the hooded woman. It seems to be so unbearable for him to have lived without her that he regards her sacrifice as meaningless because he thinks that together they could have accomplished more.

    Then after he was woken up he saw that nothing really changed.
    I think the final goal for her sacrifice was for vampires and humans to live together in peace, with the hunters as mediators.
    That obviously didn't really work.

    Also Yuuki could be just a catalyst for his feelings, he can't share with the HW anymore.
    I mean he got a new life and another chance for love but is still not satisfied and looks rather depressed.

    With all the things he does right now, he seems to try and accomplish the HW's dreams rather desperately, to make her sacrifice after all worthwhile.

    It's like he's gone mad in the process, because he destroys everything, standing in his way.
    I don't think that Kuran does all that just to create a peaceful world for Yuuki alone. It's like a bonus.

    That is of course just a speculation.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by *Evis* on Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:59 am

    @Orleans87
    So if i got it right you are saying that kaname has gone mad!!!oh mz god im afraid i cant agree on that!!it s just that i love him waz too much to think badly of him *hehehehhehe*

    Anyways theres this manga page that i find quite confusing

    chapter 38 page 24

    who is that person that kaname is refering to..


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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by SassyKnight on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 am

    Orleans, I agree with everything you said Smile Even know Kaname loves Yuki, he could just be using her in a way to be how he felt in the past with the Hooded Woman. I'm not saying he might not love Yuki, but a part of him wants to accomplish the HW dreams and what she wanted instead of being with Yuki . I believe that Kaname has in a way gone made IMO. Dont hate me for what I'm saying because it's how I feel about Kaname's confusing situation right now...

    In the past with Yuki Kaname may have been happy with her in their little Doll House, but now that she knows about his past he desperately wants to achieve what the HW desired so her death wasn't meaningless...
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Bloodredhead on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:55 am

    Orleans87 wrote:excuse my insufficient English pale

    Maybe he still holds onto his past life and his feelings for the hooded woman. It seems to be so unbearable for him to have lived without her that he regards her sacrifice as meaningless because he thinks that together they could have accomplished more.

    Then after he was woken up he saw that nothing really changed.
    I think the final goal for her sacrifice was for vampires and humans to live together in peace, with the hunters as mediators.
    That obviously didn't really work.

    Also Yuuki could be just a catalyst for his feelings, he can't share with the HW anymore.
    I mean he got a new life and another chance for love but is still not satisfied and looks rather depressed.

    With all the things he does right now, he seems to try and accomplish the HW's dreams rather desperately, to make her sacrifice after all worthwhile.

    It's like he's gone mad in the process, because he destroys everything, standing in his way.
    I don't think that Kuran does all that just to create a peaceful world for Yuuki alone. It's like a bonus.

    That is of course just a speculation.

    Sorry but i disagree.

    Yes HW was important to kaname, that is certain but it doesnt mean his feelings for yuuki are void due to this. In kanames own words "No person can be a replacement for another." http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html Hino empasised this in a whole scene. She made yuuki ask the question we all wanted to know and he responded with that. He isnt replacing HW with another(yuuki). His love for yuuki actually started when his ancestor memories were suppressed, so this proves he liked her as her and not due to past relationships.

    At the moment kaname is afraid of losing yuuki. She is a kind girl so she would sacrfice herself for innocenets at the drop of a hat. Kaname doesnt want to lose her as one he loves her and two going through the pain of losing yet another person (HW, Juri, Haruka etc) would probably be too much for him to emotionally and mentally bare, especially as the person he would lose would be the woman he loves. I think i'd be upset, down and in despair too knowing there was a chance my loved one could die and leave me alone for eternity.

    SassyKnight wrote:Orleans, I agree with everything you said Smile Even know Kaname loves Yuki, he could just be using her in a way to be how he felt in the past with the Hooded Woman. I'm not saying he might not love Yuki, but a part of him wants to accomplish the HW dreams and what she wanted instead of being with Yuki . I believe that Kaname has in a way gone made IMO. Dont hate me for what I'm saying because it's how I feel about Kaname's confusing situation right now...

    I disagree. Co-existence wasnt just HW's dream it was kanames also. Before he met HW he was living and interacting with humans, he was helping them by teaching them new skills to improve their way of life. http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-26/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html This was long before he met HW.

    Also if you remeber HW words in chapter 64.
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-11/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html "To be useful to kaname too." In a way i think it was more HW trying to help accomplish kaname's dreams. She wanted to help him and be useful, yes she herself wnated to help humans but the furnace idea was kaname's. http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html This path was one kaname chose himself and one that HW also chose.

    In the past with Yuki Kaname may have been happy with her in their little Doll House, but now that she knows about his past he desperately wants to achieve what the HW desired so her death wasn't meaningless...

    The thing is HW's death wasnt meaningless. How was it meaningless to creat the furnace? How meaningless was it to give the humans weapons to fight vampires? It wasnt meaningless in the slightest. It meant alot and was a big

    So thats why kaname words on yuuki not wanting her to sacrifice herself meaninglessly i believe dont refer to HW's sacrifce. Saving millions of humans in the past and present isnt something i'd ever view as meaningless. Just ask the hunters.

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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by SassyKnight on Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:58 am

    Bloodredhead wrote:
    Orleans87 wrote:excuse my insufficient English pale

    Maybe he still holds onto his past life and his feelings for the hooded woman. It seems to be so unbearable for him to have lived without her that he regards her sacrifice as meaningless because he thinks that together they could have accomplished more.

    Then after he was woken up he saw that nothing really changed.
    I think the final goal for her sacrifice was for vampires and humans to live together in peace, with the hunters as mediators.
    That obviously didn't really work.

    Also Yuuki could be just a catalyst for his feelings, he can't share with the HW anymore.
    I mean he got a new life and another chance for love but is still not satisfied and looks rather depressed.

    With all the things he does right now, he seems to try and accomplish the HW's dreams rather desperately, to make her sacrifice after all worthwhile.

    It's like he's gone mad in the process, because he destroys everything, standing in his way.
    I don't think that Kuran does all that just to create a peaceful world for Yuuki alone. It's like a bonus.

    That is of course just a speculation.

    Sorry but i disagree.

    Yes HW was important to kaname, that is certain but it doesnt mean his feelings for yuuki are void due to this. In kanames own words "No person can be a replacement for another." http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html Hino empasised this in a whole scene. She made yuuki ask the question we all wanted to know and he responded with that. He isnt replacing HW with another(yuuki). His love for yuuki actually started when his ancestor memories were suppressed, so this proves he liked her as her and not due to past relationships.

    At the moment kaname is afraid of losing yuuki. She is a kind girl so she would sacrfice herself for innocenets at the drop of a hat. Kaname doesnt want to lose her as one he loves her and two going through the pain of losing yet another person (HW, Juri, Haruka etc) would probably be too much for him to emotionally and mentally bare, especially as the person he would lose would be the woman he loves. I think i'd be upset, down and in despair too knowing there was a chance my loved one could die and leave me alone for eternity.

    SassyKnight wrote:Orleans, I agree with everything you said Smile Even know Kaname loves Yuki, he could just be using her in a way to be how he felt in the past with the Hooded Woman. I'm not saying he might not love Yuki, but a part of him wants to accomplish the HW dreams and what she wanted instead of being with Yuki . I believe that Kaname has in a way gone made IMO. Dont hate me for what I'm saying because it's how I feel about Kaname's confusing situation right now...

    I disagree. Co-existence wasnt just HW's dream it was kanames also. Before he met HW he was living and interacting with humans, he was helping them by teaching them new skills to improve their way of life. http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-26/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html This was long before he met HW.

    Also if you remeber HW words in chapter 64.
    http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-11/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html "To be useful to kaname too." In a way i think it was more HW trying to help accomplish kaname's dreams. She wanted to help him and be useful, yes she herself wnated to help humans but the furnace idea was kaname's. http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html This path was one kaname chose himself and one that HW also chose.

    In the past with Yuki Kaname may have been happy with her in their little Doll House, but now that she knows about his past he desperately wants to achieve what the HW desired so her death wasn't meaningless...

    The thing is HW's death wasnt meaningless. How was it meaningless to creat the furnace? How meaningless was it to give the humans weapons to fight vampires? It wasnt meaningless in the slightest. It meant alot and was a big

    So thats why kaname words on yuuki not wanting her to sacrifice herself meaninglessly i believe dont refer to HW's sacrifce. Saving millions of humans in the past and present isnt something i'd ever view as meaningless. Just ask the hunters.


    Sorry I said that all wrong Razz The HW's death wasn't meaningless, as you said...And by Yuki sacrificing herself, she would be doing the same thing as her parents did...She would only sacrifice herself if it was to protect the ones she loves. But, Yuki said this to Kaname "I won't die on you like they did...So please don't talk as if you've lost everything..." Kaname said to her "The world you see is different from the world I see..." He also said this: "Yuki...I understand what your decisions will be in the future...You were born at my side, and your small hand kept holding tightly onto mine...Surely it's enough...This girl has given me enough...." wub

    Haha it's so sweet how they act towards eachother... So I guess Kaname really cares for Yuki..More than I possibly thought... Smile I just want everyone in Vampire Knight to be happy....


    Last edited by SassyKnight on Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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    juliet
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by juliet on Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:20 am

    It seems to be so unbearable for him to have lived without her that he regards her sacrifice as meaningless because he thinks that together they could have accomplished more.

    You are skipping the fact that he had intended to sacrifice himself there on his own device and without knowing that this was HW intention also, so that means that Kaname had never a plan to live with that woman and share a happy living as he had with Yuuki....

    Spoiler:

    see that bubble there where it says that he finally has his girl to spend eternity with>

    these are his POV and he can't be lying to himself, that's his inner thoughts which means two things:

    that either he does not intend to sacrifice himself at all (but his plan is risky due to the ways that he has chosen and how he much he is afraid of Yuuki's rejection, so her rejection equals to him as a death as he has stated in the past or that something on the way came and changed his plan to share eternity with her so Kaname had to set out and fulfill his original plan while he did not intend to.

    The fact is that sharing a common life with Yuuki was in his plan whereas with HW that you compare it he had no intention to in the first place. Yes he wanted to share some more moments with her (but that would also give him time) but that was it. She did not influence him further than that, whereas in Yuuki's case we know that Kaname has devoted his life to her.

    And since he had decided to sacrifice himself in the past, he did not consider that sacrifice "meaningless" in the past, but I shall agree with you that he may considers now such a sacrifice at the present time to be "meaningless" since he views the whole plan, which we can not estimate yet and sees that another type of sacrifice from Yuuki's part, now and under these conditions would have nothing to offer > that's because as he says his views about this world are different from hers and experience certainly plays a role there.

    And he is not willing to lose Yuuki over a matter that now will bring no difference > after all let's not forget the easiness with which Kaname has seen Yuuki offering her life example to Shizuka or even remain unguarded to Touma's attack so its possible that he is afraid for her and her decisions. Furhermore, again if he did not estimate Yuuki as much as the HW then he would not have troubled himself with her decisions? would he? what would be the point?






    I' ll show you a sweet dream next time
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by lililovelilica on Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:08 pm

    juliet wrote:
    It seems to be so unbearable for him to have lived without her that he regards her sacrifice as meaningless because he thinks that together they could have accomplished more.

    You are skipping the fact that he had intended to sacrifice himself there on his own device and without knowing that this was HW intention also, so that means that Kaname had never a plan to live with that woman and share a happy living as he had with Yuuki....

    Spoiler:

    see that bubble there where it says that he finally has his girl to spend eternity with>

    these are his POV and he can't be lying to himself, that's his inner thoughts which means two things:

    that either he does not intend to sacrifice himself at all (but his plan is risky due to the ways that he has chosen and how he much he is afraid of Yuuki's rejection, so her rejection equals to him as a death as he has stated in the past or that something on the way came and changed his plan to share eternity with her so Kaname had to set out and fulfill his original plan while he did not intend to.

    The fact is that sharing a common life with Yuuki was in his plan whereas with HW that you compare it he had no intention to in the first place. Yes he wanted to share some more moments with her (but that would also give him time) but that was it. She did not influence him further than that, whereas in Yuuki's case we know that Kaname has devoted his life to her.

    And since he had decided to sacrifice himself in the past, he did not consider that sacrifice "meaningless" in the past, but I shall agree with you that he may considers now such a sacrifice at the present time to be "meaningless" since he views the whole plan, which we can not estimate yet and sees that another type of sacrifice from Yuuki's part, now and under these conditions would have nothing to offer > that's because as he says his views about this world are different from hers and experience certainly plays a role there.

    And he is not willing to lose Yuuki over a matter that now will bring no difference > after all let's not forget the easiness with which Kaname has seen Yuuki offering her life example to Shizuka or even remain unguarded to Touma's attack so its possible that he is afraid for her and her decisions. Furhermore, again if he did not estimate Yuuki as much as the HW then he would not have troubled himself with her decisions? would he? what would be the point?
    I loved your post! bouncing
    Well now you have a point,he always have considered what Yuuki thinks of him and how she makes her decisions about being with him or leaving him(considered death to him) cryyyyyyy
    Also he asked Yuuki to kill him if that ever happened(the same as Zero)
    But now that Kaname is finally Ending the chess board game as making the check mate to the white queen(sara),"he", sFun_hailtheking the Black King is rushing things...then after he can spent eternity by Yuuki's side,that's what i think...he doesn't plan to Die and leave Yuuki behing scratch ..
    The feelings that he shared with the HW is a different type of love that he feels for Yuuki... sFun_banghead2 for her he would do anything,even die for her sake...the true love as we could say,because there's one part on the manga when we can see Yuuki happy with some flowers and under there's an restrained and sad yuuki...and after...under there's a hw...but that's not the HW kaname knows...maybe that's the Yuuki's on the past? confused
    And Kaname actually begins to love Yuuki still as a tiny child without his previous memories...we have to consider what he said to Zero:"-I wanted to be born as her true Brother!"
    That means that he wanted to be the previous baby that was killed by Rido? confused
    How sad...
    but it makes sense... Twisted Evil
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by DarkRose on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:06 am

    theangelgirl1992 wrote:I am sure he is talking about his late wife and queen, and knowing Yuuki has some connection to that past queen. I am pretty sure that yuuki is reincarnation of his past love those hints of butterfly and butterfly and the desert and Kaname being to protective of her and not wanting to lose her AGAIN what I want to know is how the kurancest started. Kaname probably started the kurancest, but then he had to have a sister who also is a pureblood and fall in love with each other, and later figured out they where siblings.


    i actually didn't ever think about the HW reincarnating into Yuuki, but it is a possibility... but does Kaname sense that it's maybe the HW.
    i'm not really sure the HW was Kaname's late wife but seems reasonable i guess scratch ,
    but then if Kaname knows Yuuki's the reincarnation of the HW does that mean he's half-heartingly loving Yuuki???
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Bloodredhead on Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:23 am

    DarkRose wrote:
    theangelgirl1992 wrote:I am sure he is talking about his late wife and queen, and knowing Yuuki has some connection to that past queen. I am pretty sure that yuuki is reincarnation of his past love those hints of butterfly and butterfly and the desert and Kaname being to protective of her and not wanting to lose her AGAIN what I want to know is how the kurancest started. Kaname probably started the kurancest, but then he had to have a sister who also is a pureblood and fall in love with each other, and later figured out they where siblings.


    i actually didn't ever think about the HW reincarnating into Yuuki, but it is a possibility... but does Kaname sense that it's maybe the HW.
    i'm not really sure the HW was Kaname's late wife but seems reasonable i guess scratch ,
    but then if Kaname knows Yuuki's the reincarnation of the HW does that mean he's half-heartingly loving Yuuki???

    sorry i think we may have confused you slightly. we arent talking about HW being the kuran mother, we're seeing the kuran mother being someone different and yuuki being the reincarnation of that person. hope that makes more sense. Smile
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by DarkRose on Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:18 am

    Bloodredhead wrote:
    DarkRose wrote:
    theangelgirl1992 wrote:I am sure he is talking about his late wife and queen, and knowing Yuuki has some connection to that past queen. I am pretty sure that yuuki is reincarnation of his past love those hints of butterfly and butterfly and the desert and Kaname being to protective of her and not wanting to lose her AGAIN what I want to know is how the kurancest started. Kaname probably started the kurancest, but then he had to have a sister who also is a pureblood and fall in love with each other, and later figured out they where siblings.


    i actually didn't ever think about the HW reincarnating into Yuuki, but it is a possibility... but does Kaname sense that it's maybe the HW.
    i'm not really sure the HW was Kaname's late wife but seems reasonable i guess scratch ,
    but then if Kaname knows Yuuki's the reincarnation of the HW does that mean he's half-heartingly loving Yuuki???

    sorry i think we may have confused you slightly. we arent talking about HW being the kuran mother, we're seeing the kuran mother being someone different and yuuki being the reincarnation of that person. hope that makes more sense. Smile


    somewhat makes sense lol almost..
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Mik1617 on Wed Mar 21, 2012 10:20 pm

    That is incredibly sad. Maybe he really didn't mean that the sacrifice was truely meaningless.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Knightmare on Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:27 am

    so 22 chapters later after he mentions this meaningless sacrifice and shows us the flashback of the hooded woman, do people still think he was referring to someone else?

    now he even claims he is killing the pureblood for her and he has gone to the hunters hq looking for her deposit,probably to claim back her heart that creates their weapons.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Dragonsrose15 on Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:40 am

    I thought that was pretty straight forward. Kaname doesn't want to lose Yuuki to a sacrifice like that, just like he lost the hooded woman to it. Especially since it was his intentions to go ahead with the sacrifice. He deems Yuuki's life and the hooded woman's life in high regard and couldn't stand to lose either of them to something like that. That's why he called it a meaningless sacrifice.

    The sacrifice the hooded woman did was in itself full of meaning, but Kaname deems it worthless because the hooded woman's life meant more to him than his own life.
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    Re: Meaningless sacrifice

    Post by Rima echo on Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:51 pm

    Now that the HW is at peace I 'm not quite sure Kaname will sacrifice his life. That's going a bit far-fetched, but I do know we can expect more pureblood deaths. And more about the volcano near the manor. What if Kaname set off the volcano to submerge pureblood castles underground. I know it's a wild hunch; but I remember the meeting Kaname had with the hunters and he mentioned putting vampires that cause harm to humans to be put asleep.

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