How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end?

First topic message reminder :

How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end?
AND/OR
How do you want Vampire Knight to end?
(Or, are you like me and hope it doesn't end?)

Anxious to hear your replies!!
Much love.

caela wrote:I think I figured it out. SERIOUS. I was almost angry when I put the pieces together because I don't think there is any point in me reading the manga anymore (This is my version of Kaname's plan for endgame).

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

This is a thanks section because I used other people's ideas/observations from this forum

Spoiler:

Last thought

Spoiler:

I had a lot of fun reading your theory. Good job, you rose up my mood.
honestly, you should have stick at your "rape theory" it was way better than this one.

From pure curiosity: did you watched a sci-fi movie while you made this theory and mistook vk with that movie?
Just asking cause your theory doesn't have connection with vk reality.

@soul: agree with your posts

caela wrote:I think I figured it out. SERIOUS. I was almost angry when I put the pieces together because I don't think there is any point in me reading the manga anymore (This is my version of Kaname's plan for endgame).

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

This is a thanks section because I used other people's ideas/observations from this forum

Spoiler:

Last thought

Spoiler:

OMG thanks for your fanfiction, It's really help me a lot after chapter 75 hahahaha .Have Pureblood power doesn't mean that he is a pureblood or almost

aya-chan wrote:

caela wrote:I think I figured it out. SERIOUS. I was almost angry when I put the pieces together because I don't think there is any point in me reading the manga anymore (This is my version of Kaname's plan for endgame).

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

This is a thanks section because I used other people's ideas/observations from this forum

Spoiler:

Last thought

Spoiler:

I had a lot of fun reading your theory. Good job, you rose up my mood.
honestly, you should have stick at your "rape theory" it was way better than this one.

From pure curiosity: did you watched a sci-fi movie while you made this theory and mistook vk with that movie?
Just asking cause your theory doesn't have connection with vk reality.

@soul: agree with your posts

I agree Aya-chan. Loads of fun.

Indeed, very sci-fi. That is not the VK I know.

after reading chapter 75 i think that kaname will sacrifice his life in order to turn yukiinto human again.....anyway what i hope is that dont end up before the end we will have some zeki moments...

Judging from the replies, I guess I'm too cocky for my own good. My apologies. Thanks for your time and the consideration.

Last note: About the science fiction

I don't see anything in my theory about science or space travel. I'm assuming you guys mean the genre of "fantasy". And yes, vampires count as "fantasy."

This is the closest VK gets to science fiction.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

If the ancestors had human parents, it looks like vampires are either the result of a science experiment or radiation.

So now VK is a tragedy and a science fiction story.

P.S. Hi Ravenblack:)

caela wrote:I don't see anything in my theory about science or space travel. I'm assuming you guys mean the genre of "fantasy". And yes, vampires count as "fantasy."

And your theory belongs to "fantasy" with no means in vk reality. next time when you will release a theory maybe you will keep count on vk facts, like:
- zero was born a human
- zero was turn into a vampire
- yuuki feed zero constantly trying to avoid his level e
Only these three reasons cancel your "zero became a pureblood" theory

If the ancestors had human parents, it looks like vampires are either the result of a science experiment or radiation.

since you're so a theorist then you can come with a theory. I anticipate a lot of laughs

aya-chan: I know that VK is serious business for you, but you have to have some fun too. Besides, I already gave you proof.

Backing up my Zero-can-turn-into-a-pureblood claim:
Same link I gave you before:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

This is the sci-fi solution (I don't think Kaname will use this method, but oh well): if both the hooded woman and Kaname had human parents, (like Zero) then there is at least one way to make Zero into a pureblood. If anyone were able to turn Zero into a pureblood, it would be Kaname.

Zero was also born slightly different from being human: he was born a hunter, which means he already has some vampire genes.

P.S. If the above method can't work on Zero, it can work on his offspring.

caela wrote:aya-chan: I know that VK is serious business for you, but you have to have some fun too. Besides, I already gave you proof.

Backing up my Zero-can-turn-into-a-pureblood claim:
Same link I gave you before:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

This is the sci-fi solution (I don't think Kaname will use this method, but oh well): if both the hooded woman and Kaname had human parents, (like Zero) then there is at least one way to make Zero into a pureblood. If anyone were able to turn Zero into a pureblood, it would be Kaname.

Zero was also born slightly different from being human: he was born a hunter, which means he already has some vampire genes.

I honestly think that what caused them to be purebloods then won't happen nor would anybody want it to. Also I don't think a vampire pureblood even can turn anybody into a pureblood. I think that was a one time event. Besides she and all otheres were still born a pureblood. They didn't turn into one after they were born.

Please read my P.S. on the previous post.
I made an edit.

caela wrote:Please read my P.S. on the previous post.

I still can't see how it would work on his offspring, since purebloods being born from anything (unless it has not been revealed), but purebloods has not happened since that time long ago.

To me, Shiki would have a lot better chance of becoming a pureblood since he had a pureblood father, and I don't think he can.

If Kaname and Hooded woman were born from human parents, something was changed to K. Kuran and HW between conception and birth. This method should work on Zero's children, who are not born yet. (I'm not betting that this is the way it will go though, I still think Yuuki's blood plays a role)

Technically, Zero doesn't have be a full Pureblood for my theory to work. He only needs the power of one, which he already has. And he requires pureblooded hunter children.

(I think it fits better that Zero becomes a Pureblood, cosmic justice for being so racist)

caela wrote:aya-chan: I know that VK is serious business for you, but you have to have some fun too. Besides, I already gave you proof.

Backing up my Zero-can-turn-into-a-pureblood claim:
Same link I gave you before:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

This is the sci-fi solution (I don't think Kaname will use this method, but oh well): if both the hooded woman and Kaname had human parents, (like Zero) then there is at least one way to make Zero into a pureblood. If anyone were able to turn Zero into a pureblood, it would be Kaname.

Zero was also born slightly different from being human: he was born a hunter, which means he already has some vampire genes.

P.S. If the above method can't work on Zero, it can work on his offspring.

but I have fun reading your theory. only sometimes i wonder if i should cry.

no one knows why a human couple gave birth to vampires, but this doesn't mean a human can became a pureblood.

In case you doesn't know pureblood vampire has no drop of human blood inside their bodies*the word pure wasn't put there just for nothing*. since zero has a lot of human blood, automaticaly zero is out of it.

hunters ancestors drank the blood of hooded woman and this way they gain the power to wield the weapons. the curenlty hunters inherited the genes of their predecesors.
Zero was born into a family of hunters.
zero is special because he absorbed the half he didn't take in her mother womb, aka ichiru and indulged pureblood blood. but him drinking pureblood blood doesn't make him a pureblood vampire *check what i wrote above this paragraph*

Aya-chan: almost everything you said in your post is true.

Where we differ:

I have no proof that Zero can become a pureblood.

I can only give you a line of reasoning (Theory A)

(Shizuka's Vamp level-D lover (former human)who was easily killed by Zero's parents. Shizuka likely shared lots of her pureblood with the guy. How come it was so easy for Zero's parents to kill vamp level-D? Therefore it is not normal to have pureblood powers from drinking lots of pureblood: thus possibility that Zero has already been turned into a pureblood)

Theory B

and that manga page, which is proof that a human can give birth to a pureblood.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

Zero already had the power of a pureblood. He only needs pureblooded hunter children to fulfill my theory B.

********
Theory A and Theory B are two different ways of my endgame happening.

I still say that the plot fits better if Zero is actually a pureblood. (I still like Theory A better.)

This is my last reply to you. I will try to use simple words.

(

Shizuka's Vamp level-D lover (former human)who was easily killed by Zero's parents. Shizuka likely shared lots of her pureblood with the guy. How come it was so easy for Zero's parents to kill vamp level-D? Therefore it is not normal to have pureblood powers from drinking lots of pureblood: thus possibility that Zero has already been turned into a pureblood)

1. because vampire hunters are trained since they're children to fight against vampires with weapons which can kill vampires. with time they gained more experience. so, a mere former human is no treat for them.
2.I will let you live in your fantasy.

and that manga page, which is proof that a human can give birth to a pureblood.

this happened more than 10000 yrs ago. doesn't exist prove of this happening recently or that a vampire hunter gave birth to a pureblood or that a former human can become a pureblood.
Hino already classified the vampires: purebloods, noble, common, level D, level E.

Zero already had the power of a pureblood. He only needs pureblooded hunter children to fulfill my theory B.

he just cracked a mere wall and window, this is not synonym with him having pureblood powers. maybe you forgot, but in ch 24 kaname said sometimes former humans gain special powers, and in zero case is cracking a mere wall/window.
In case you forgot, noble vampires have special powers, like fire, ice, mind control, electricity, create a whip from your blood. since they have powers this make them purebloods too if they will have a taste of pureblood blood? guess not

purebloods powers are many: mind control, healing, destroy walls/windows with their powers, creating an alter ego from their blood, like a wolf,etc.

Aya-chan brought to my attention that Zero's abilities are not well-known. I'll list them for you guys here.

he just cracked a mere wall and window, this is not synonym with him having pureblood powers. maybe you forgot, but in ch 24 kaname said sometimes former humans gain special powers, and in zero case is cracking a mere wall/window.

I was unable to find the Kaname reference from chapter 24 on mangareader.

Zero's abilities:

Flying (Rido fight, chapter 42)

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2168-20/vampire-knight/chapter-42.html

Immune to Pureblood mind control (Rido fight, chapter 42-43),

breaks glass with mind (chapter 50, 60).

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-24/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html

The end of the Rido fight had Rido going behind the newly rearrived Yuuki. Rido was on the roof with Zero alone. It looks like Rido was running from Zero.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-32/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html

Kaname fight (chapter 46):

First attack: Kaname was angry about Zero pointing a gun at Yuuki. Kaname attacks with an overhead long range attack and Zero defends with the vines of the Bloody Rose. It results with Zero having scratches and Kaname with his hand chopped off.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-7/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Second pass: Kaname positions a short/medium range weapon and Zero holds Bloody Rose.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-8/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html
Yuuki then stops their fight.

Zero won the first exchange, though Kaname might have underestimated Zero and carelessly allowed himself to get hurt. Kaname then chooses to switch to a shorter range weapon/attack. This switch shows an acknowledgment of fighting someone who is an equal or closer to an equal. I also reference how Kaname killed the Vampire Council: They are all weaker than Kaname and Kaname chose long range attacks.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-9/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html

Who might have won if Yuuki didn't stop the fight? I don't know but I would have to bet Kaname, just basing on Kaname's experience.

Kaname vs. Rido: Kaname blew Rido to bits eleven years ago.

Haruka Kuran: lost to Rido with a hunter sword eleven years ago.


Based on the above information and supposing hunter weapons as a handicap in power, here is the strength hierarchy:

(1) Kaname (2) Zero (3) Haruka and Rido.



Zero is REALLY strong right now, much more than what one should expect from holding the Bloody Rose. He literally is more than equal with Kuran purebloods and would only lose to the ancestor Kaname.

(soulkeeper: there at least two spells: forgetfulness and turning vampires into humans. It is my assumption that there are combat spells. Juuri is listed there as a talented user of spells)

Erasing memories I've always considered as a technique since even Kaien knows how to do it. But if it was a spell then its a spell Yuuki will probably hate, so there is no use in learning it.

As for turning a vampire into a human, I dont think that would be a spell Kaname would want to teach Yuuki. Besides it was Juuri who excelled in using spells. As I said, vampire power is inherent. Yuuki will develop her own power in her own pace. It doesn't have to be spells. Kaname doesnt need to teach her anything.

The weakest point in my theory: Bridging the gap from the above to saying Yuuki's blood made Zero into a pureblood is the leap of faith. I'm taking that leap because of the mystery surrounding Yuuki and why she needs so much protection.

The reason why Yuuki needs so much protection is because Kaname loves her and will do anything to protect her and she is a Kuran princess who is not as strong as Kaname. So she is the weak spot. Is that not enough reason.

Touma saying, "I have been used by him" means that Kaname had mind control (or at least body control) over Touma, another pureblood. Rido did have a moment of mind control over Yuuki during her fight with him, but she was a new pureblood at the time. Purebloods are supposed to be equals and not have any sort of control over one another except for blood bonds. The trick that killed Touma is supposed to be beyond the ability of your average pureblood.

Kaname has eaten Shizuka (>.<) Who is a pureblood. A pureblood eating a pureblood is bound to become more powerful. Just like Zero eating his twin. It made him more powerful.

Seriously? all the rudeness you throw at me and you can't take sarcasm?

ok, can you name a type of government that will be just and keep order? For 10 generations? For 20 generations? Those kind of questions are really hard to solve and I feel like that's the kind of certainty you are asking from the ending. If that question were so easy, Israel, Jordan, Afganistan, Iraq...etc would be easy. I think you are being more stubborn with my theory than is justified.

I know we both know the mechanics of writing and story arcs. We did just write to each other, alot.

Let's just agree to disagree on that point.

So you are allowed to use sarcasm while I'm not allowed to reply with one? Great.

Anyway, whats the point of mentioning all those countries? And whats your point about a country that will be just and keep the order when you are quoting a post of me saying that there is no certainty that Zero's children will walk his path. Please relate.

And no, I'm not being stubborn. I'm shooting at the holes on your theory. If you cannot even take that much how can you be so certain you have solved the VK formula? You create a plot full of holes and you expect it to be treated as a credible scenario? If you had treated the whole thing as simply an idea I would have taken it just as any other. But you are introducing it as being the PICTURE on the PUZZLE. If you are that serious about it then be prepared to have serious debates too. Unless you were just TROLLING when you said you've put the pieces together to not even want to read VK anymore. So either you were TROLLING or you were being PRESUMPTUOUS. And presumptions need to be shot down. I happen to enjoy killing presumptions. XD XD XD

I say don't create a theory if you cant take the heat.

Yes, the problem of Kaname changing his mind. He did leave her though. He is the smartest character in the story and he knew what will happen next: Yuuki biting Zero. I'm arguing that he knows almost everything up until endgame. I'm arguing that Kaname could have avoided Zeki interactions and found another way, unless he planned for the Zeki interaction.

Ooooooh... amazing. I'm awed at the fact that you believe in Kaname's "smartness" more than any Kaname fan.

But I guess that is because you only see Kaname as a figure and not a character. Well let me give you the biggest HOLE in that assumption. This:

Spoiler:

Now dont go into the translations because no matter how it was translated the meaning has remained the same. Because my point is: How does a person who has everything going according to his plans be almost giving up hope at one time or another?

And let me put another hole. Kaname just revealed in chapter 75 that he originally planned to "fix" Juuri's spell when Yuuki starts recovering her memories. Now how does that plan include Zero?

And then this:

Spoiler:

What was Kaname doing then? Trolling?

Blood tablets: As far as I've seen, Aidou has had a little bit of Yuuki's blood and lots of pills for over a year. He also eats food. Mostly pills and food. Senri and Rima like Pocky. Senri drank some Takuma blood. And then more pills.

No one has said that blood pills are the major food source of the night class, but I think it looks that way. Not much blood sucking is going on.

The pills were developed for the coexistence. So that the vampires will not drink the blood of humans. Its pretty understandable why the night class will be using it. And looking at the night class, its only Rima and Shiki who are almost like lovers and even then it has not even been established. My point is, the pills are to stop vampires from drinking human blood not to stop them from drinking the blood of their loved ones. Shiki even feeds his mom his blood.

And when have you seen Kaname stop Yuuki from drinking blood tablets anyway? Once when Aidou tried to give it to her and Kaname stopped him because he was there? Was not what he did a natural reaction? Its like walking in seeing your husband holding a spoon planning to eat gruel in front of him and telling him to stop because you just arrived home and you'll make him something delicious instead.

I agree, I also see Zero thirsting for Yuuki in chapters 67 and 53 and I don't see him having a Maria blood bite. He also lost his twin during the time he lost Yuuki. Maybe this direct comparasion is not fair, but I see Zero clutching his throat and eating lots of pills too.

Emotions play a role and also willpower plays a role. So far, I don't see anything to suggest that Yuuki doesn't have willpower. If the night class can live on pills, Yuuki should be able to also.

That's not the point. Yuuki drunk from Zero because he was there and he offered. Kaname drunk from Ruka because she was there and she offered. Zero suffered because no one offered. And why compare the night class to Yuuki, Kaname and Zero? Are they undergoing the same despair as these three have? Who's to say that Yuuki could not have survived had Zero not appeared to offer his blood? It made it easier for her but it doesnt mean she'd have gone berserk otherwise. @_@

About Zero the pushover: Zero does have backbone, he has stood up for himself before. Kaname has a couple of thousands of years of living over Zero and it should not be surprising that a Kaname vs. Zero exchange would likely end up with Zero losing. I think that Zero is the secret main character of the manga and we will see him with more backbone and outclassing Kaname, but not anytime soon. There is a reason Hino had Yuuki say to Zero: You are the kindest and therefore your heart is not broken (chapter 75). Zero is a fighter.

Well, I dont have any problems with Zero becoming the main character. He deserves his limelight. I'm even looking forward to it. But him becoming a pureblood will make him as Kaname's tool forever. Don't you see, Shizuka forced him to become a vampire so he will suffer. The only way to remove himself in her chains is for him to get over the pain and accept his change and he is already moving towards that. But if Kaname turns Zero into a pureblood (by using Yuuki) for the sake of the coexistence how will he ever break out of Kaname's chains? By creating war instead of peace? Accepting his pureblood status will not make him free him at all, and instead it will merely make him into a puppet. All the things he would have accomplished for the coexistence would be him playing on Kaname's strings. Its ugly. Now I'm beginning to doubt you like Zero at all, or you just like the idea of Zeki. (>.<) Show more love.

Real endgame is something that I cannot claim to guess. Yuuki and Zero's characters are still developing. Kaname is the character who was already a full adult and probably won't change much. Kaname is actually going to be the easiest character to predict. That's why I chose him and his plans as something to guess.

You are saying the end game is hard to predict but you are already laying out Kaname's plans of making Zero a pureblood and sire kids with Yuuki. Sure you believe the plan might fail but you also believe Kaname is the smartest and that everything has been going according to his plans...

You know, if you make a shipper theory be straightforward about it.

This discussion has turned out quite long so let me summarize your points so as we do not stray. The problem in your theory is that you are putting too much different meanings to actions that already have reasons. Let me site most of them and put in the known obvious reasons.

1. Kaname protecting Yuuki - he loves her
2. Zero's power - he drunk a lot of pure blood as well as ate his twin
3. Kaname's power - ate Shizuka
4. Kaname's anger in Aidou drinking Yuukis blood - Kaname hates anyone drinking Yuuki's blood
5. Allowing Yuuki time with Zero - Kaname had no choice as he is bound to play his role and Zero was useful in protecting Yuuki as well
6. Not letting Yuuki eat blood tablets (when he is around) - Kaname wants Yuuki to feed on him

Now taking all of these numbers you made them all into an equation with only one solution. That Kaname planned to make Zero a pureblood. I say, its an "okey" theory but presuming it to be final? That's another story.

Erasing memories I've always considered as a technique since even Kaien knows how to do it. But if it was a spell then its a spell Yuuki will probably hate, so there is no use in learning it.

spells, inherent, we are arguing vocab here. I'll save some time and stop using the word "spells".

The reason why Yuuki needs so much protection is because Kaname loves her and will do anything to protect her and she is a Kuran princess who is not as strong as Kaname. So she is the weak spot. Is that not enough reason.

Juuri and Haruka's contingency plan for Yuuki was a premediated one: they wanted to turn her into a human. I do not think that Haruka, Juuri and Kaname were just afraid of Rido. Right now Rido is dead and Kaname is still trying to protect Yuuki by killing alot of people in chapter 75. Something big is still after Yuuki.

Touma saying, "I have been used by him" means that Kaname had mind control (or at least body control) over Touma, another pureblood. Rido did have a moment of mind control over Yuuki during her fight with him, but she was a new pureblood at the time. Purebloods are supposed to be equals and not have any sort of control over one another except for blood bonds. The trick that killed Touma is supposed to be beyond the ability of your average pureblood.

Kaname has eaten Shizuka (>.<) Who is a pureblood. A pureblood eating a pureblood is bound to become more powerful. Just like Zero eating his twin. It made him more powerful.

I told sweetsolace that my original point here was pretty weak. I'm letting this one go.

Seriously? all the rudeness you throw at me and you can't take sarcasm?

ok, can you name a type of government that will be just and keep order? For 10 generations? For 20 generations? Those kind of questions are really hard to solve and I feel like that's the kind of certainty you are asking from the ending. If that question were so easy, Israel, Jordan, Afganistan, Iraq...etc would be easy. I think you are being more stubborn with my theory than is justified.

I know we both know the mechanics of writing and story arcs. We did just write to each other, alot.

Let's just agree to disagree on that point.

So you are allowed to use sarcasm while I'm not allowed to reply with one? Great.

Anyway, whats the point of mentioning all those countries? And whats your point about a country that will be just and keep the order when you are quoting a post of me saying that there is no certainty that Zero's children will walk his path. Please relate.

And no, I'm not being stubborn. I'm shooting at the holes on your theory. If you cannot even take that much how can you be so certain you have solved the VK formula? You create a plot full of holes and you expect it to be treated as a credible scenario? If you had treated the whole thing as simply an idea I would have taken it just as any other. But you are introducing it as being the PICTURE on the PUZZLE. If you are that serious about it then be prepared to have serious debates too. Unless you were just TROLLING when you said you've put the pieces together to not even want to read VK anymore. So either you were TROLLING or you were being PRESUMPTUOUS. And presumptions need to be shot down. I happen to enjoy killing presumptions. XD XD XD

I say don't create a theory if you cant take the heat.

Ok ::takes aspirin:: I took care of my headache. Sure, bring on the heat

Now dont go into the translations because no matter how it was translated the meaning has remained the same. Because my point is: How does a person who has everything going according to his plans be almost giving up hope at one time or another?

And let me put another hole. Kaname just revealed in chapter 75 that he originally planned to "fix" Juuri's spell when Yuuki starts recovering her memories. Now how does that plan include Zero?

Kaname is most uncertain with his plans when he is with Yuuki. He flip flops on their relationship to go kill some people. Chapter 75 has him thanking Kaien for keeping Yuuki away from Kaname. Yuuki has already shown that she accepts Kaname's evil side. If Yuuki already is so committed to the relationship to be willing to accept even Kaname's sins, why is Kaname walking away from her?

Because his plans involve her not being with him: He wants her to do something that only she can do. What is this something? One of their last conversations, he says: Don't hesitate Yuuki. I don't know what Kaname wants her to do. I think that it has to do with Sara.

I agree with the Juuri inherent non-spell thingie. Zero has nothing to do with it. I hope I didn't write that Zero did. If I did write that before, I was wrong.

The picture you gave me of Kaname attacking Zero in chapter 46 was a result of Zero aiming his gun at Yuuki. You are the one who says that Kaname wants to protect Yuuki. Whatever Kaname's plans for Zero, if Zero seriously threatens Yuuki, I'm sure Kaname would kill Zero. Choosing between Yuuki and Zero, Kaname would choose Yuuki. I hope we can agree on this.

And when have you seen Kaname stop Yuuki from drinking blood tablets anyway? Once when Aidou tried to give it to her and Kaname stopped him because he was there? Was not what he did a natural reaction? Its like walking in seeing your husband holding a spoon planning to eat gruel in front of him and telling him to stop because you just arrived home and you'll make him something delicious instead.

Kaname might be being a romantic. Yuuki is pretty weak for a pureblood though and being stuck looking for Kaname, Zero, or whomever would quietly give her blood and I don't find it pleasant. I personally would prefer a more strong and confident Yuuki and I think taking blood tablets could be one of the things she works on. I'm a feminist; I hope Yuuki could stop depending on the men and be self-sufficient...

I agree, I also see Zero thirsting for Yuuki in chapters 67 and 53 and I don't see him having a Maria blood bite. He also lost his twin during the time he lost Yuuki. Maybe this direct comparasion is not fair, but I see Zero clutching his throat and eating lots of pills too.

Emotions play a role and also willpower plays a role. So far, I don't see anything to suggest that Yuuki doesn't have willpower. If the night class can live on pills, Yuuki should be able to also.

That's not the point. Yuuki drunk from Zero because he was there and he offered. Kaname drunk from Ruka because she was there and she offered. Zero suffered because no one offered. And why compare the night class to Yuuki, Kaname and Zero? Are they undergoing the same despair as these three have? Who's to say that Yuuki could not have survived had Zero not appeared to offer his blood? It made it easier for her but it doesnt mean she'd have gone berserk otherwise. @_@

I think we agree here. Yuuki wouldn't go beserk. Her problem is her leadership, but I don't think blood solves that problem.

You are saying the end game is hard to predict but you are already laying out Kaname's plans of making Zero a pureblood and sire kids with Yuuki. Sure you believe the plan might fail but you also believe Kaname is the smartest and that everything has been going according to his plans...

You know, if you make a shipper theory be straightforward about it.

If Zero were to figure out he was being set up, how cooperative do you think he would be? Even if the set up had him marrying the girl of his dreams? I actually think he would reject the deal and walk away.

Yes, I agree, Zero never had much choice in his life and he is probably starving for some freedom. He moved out from the academy and has his own apartment. He's getting promoted to Hunter Association president. Life is looking good for him and he is achieving alot at a young age on his own. I also don't think he would try for a relationship with Yuuki without earning it.

That's why I say my theory is not a shipper theory.

My ending will not be Hino's ending. I think we agree on that. I hope I haven't come off as too cocky. I still think that Zero himself is the final solution, but if I'm wrong, I can deal with it.

Juuri and Haruka's contingency plan for Yuuki was a premediated one: they wanted to turn her into a human. I do not think that Haruka, Juuri and Kaname were just afraid of Rido. Right now Rido is dead and Kaname is still trying to protect Yuuki by killing alot of people in chapter 75. Something big is still after Yuuki.

How did you come to a conclusion that this was all about Yuuki. Yuuki is a part of it because she is a Kuran princess thus her blood can be used to gain power. But I thought you agreed that the aim is the coexistence of vampires and humans. Yuuki can definitely be used as a tool to power up any of the factions, mainly the hunters and the vampires. But she's not the main goal. The problems are those who want to rule and those who want to exterminate. They are the ones that are the bariers to the coexistence. Something might be after Yuuki, but there's a simple reason for that, she is a Kuran princess.

Ok ::takes aspirin:: I took care of my headache. Sure, bring on the heat

Now that's the spirit.

Kaname is most uncertain with his plans when he is with Yuuki. He flip flops on their relationship to go kill some people. Chapter 75 has him thanking Kaien for keeping Yuuki away from Kaname. Yuuki has already shown that she accepts Kaname's evil side. If Yuuki already is so committed to the relationship to be willing to accept even Kaname's sins, why is Kaname walking away from her?

Because Kaname wants Yuuki to be free and safe at the same time and that only a world where vampires and humans dont vie for power (in other words a peaceful coexistence) will make this true? Well I'm also asking this question otherwise I would not have read your theory at all.

Anyway my point was that Kaname failed in many aspects of his plans and had to revise a lot of his plans and then change some. That's all.

Because his plans involve her not being with him: He wants her to do something that only she can do. What is this something? One of their last conversations, he says: Don't hesitate Yuuki. I don't know what Kaname wants her to do. I think that it has to do with Sara.

So nothing to do with making Zero a pureblood? Because that's the only thing I cannot understand at all.

I agree with the Juuri inherent non-spell thingie. Zero has nothing to do with it. I hope I didn't write that Zero did. If I did write that before, I was wrong.

You didnt. XD

The picture you gave me of Kaname attacking Zero in chapter 46 was a result of Zero aiming his gun at Yuuki. You are the one who says that Kaname wants to protect Yuuki. Whatever Kaname's plans for Zero, if Zero seriously threatens Yuuki, I'm sure Kaname would kill Zero. Choosing between Yuuki and Zero, Kaname would choose Yuuki. I hope we can agree on this.

Yeah we can agree on that. But what we cant agree on is that Kaname would base all his plans in someone as unstable as Zero, someone that he might just kill and ruin his entire plan himself.

Kaname might be being a romantic. Yuuki is pretty weak for a pureblood though and being stuck looking for Kaname, Zero, or whomever would quietly give her blood and I don't find it pleasant. I personally would prefer a more strong and confident Yuuki and I think taking blood tablets could be one of the things she works on. I'm a feminist; I hope Yuuki could stop depending on the men and be self-sufficient...

Nah, I would prefer Kaname getting addicted to Yuuki's blood too so they will be mutually dependent on each other. Forever. Yeah I'm shippy.

If Zero were to figure out he was being set up, how cooperative do you think he would be? Even if the set up had him marrying the girl of his dreams? I actually think he would reject the deal and walk away.

Yes, I agree, Zero never had much choice in his life and he is probably starving for some freedom. He moved out from the academy and has his own apartment. He's getting promoted to Hunter Association president. Life is looking good for him and he is achieving alot at a young age on his own. I also don't think he would try for a relationship with Yuuki without earning it.

That's why I say my theory is not a shipper theory.

My ending will not be Hino's ending. I think we agree on that. I hope I haven't come off as too cocky. I still think that Zero himself is the final solution, but if I'm wrong, I can deal with it.

Okey, I guess I misunderstood the whole spoiler stuff then and the whole warning about you not needing to read VK anymore... because that really raised my hopes up.

I'm currently super confused on Kaname's plans and pleading for theories everywhere. It's frustrating.

caela wrote:Aya-chan: almost everything you said in your post is true.

Where we differ:

I have no proof that Zero can become a pureblood.

I can only give you a line of reasoning (Theory A)

(Shizuka's Vamp level-D lover (former human)who was easily killed by Zero's parents. Shizuka likely shared lots of her pureblood with the guy. How come it was so easy for Zero's parents to kill vamp level-D? Therefore it is not normal to have pureblood powers from drinking lots of pureblood: thus possibility that Zero has already been turned into a pureblood)

Theory B

and that manga page, which is proof that a human can give birth to a pureblood.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-31/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

Zero already had the power of a pureblood. He only needs pureblooded hunter children to fulfill my theory B.

********
Theory A and Theory B are two different ways of my endgame happening.

I still say that the plot fits better if Zero is actually a pureblood. (I still like Theory A better.)

About theory A :

Shizuka's lover was a Level D vampire . There is no evidence of him drinking blood from Shizuka or not .

For what I had read so far , a Level D vampire who drinks blood from his / her pureblood master don't get new powers or get stronger . The former human - turned - vampire just permanently stabilize his / her condition to Level D . Acts as panacea preventing the ex - human fall to Level E .

The story has said so far no everybody who drinks from a pureblood's blood get new powers .

In the case of a normal human the possible scenarios are :

1- become a vampire Level D .
This happened to the former Hunter's President . Notice he wasn't bite by any pureblood vampire . He only had drank from Rido's blood which was given by the Vampire Senate to him as part of their deal .

2- get poisoned and die .
Mentioned during the time of the creation of the vampire hunters . Many canditates for being vampire hunters die when drank a lot quantity of the HW blood .

3- serve as panacea / medicinal purpose .
This was the way both Maria and Ichiru used Shizuka's blood . To heal their weak constitutions . Neither of them got any new power from doing this . Also Kaname mentioned he had gave his blood to the villagers when he was their lord for healing purposes .

4- gaining new powers .
The creation gof the original hunters works that way . The ones who survive gained the powers of quick healing , more quick reflexes and sharper senses than a normal human . Additionally the power to use anti - vampire weapons .


In the case of a vampire , I think the possibilities of dying after drinking from a pureblood and becoming a vampire could be eliminated by logic . So in that case a vampire who drinks from a pureblood vampire either assimilate some of the purebloods powers or heals from any previous illness . Or maybe nothing happens .( This last part is only a speculation . )

A thing I don't have clear yet is if a human or vampire who drink from a vampire could get nothing after drinking the blood . Because Hanabusa Aido drank a little from Yuuki's blood before . After she becoming a pureblood vampire again . When her blood activated again . Aido doesn't show gaining anything from the little portion he has inside him . Or at least we have not saw any power obtained or anything healed from Aido after Yuuki returned to pureblood vampire .

Zero indeed gained new powers from drinking several times from a pureblood . He was strong before drinking any of that blood . Also he drank /devoured his twin's blood / flesh . Zero has a lot of sources for power - up his level . But i'm talking about his power level . Not his cathegory level as a vampire . As he was a former human before . His vampire level cathegory continues to be Level D vampire by definition .

***********************************************************

About the second theory :

Hino has not make a lot of theories about vampires origins yet . I don't expect to see more clues about the matter . Unless this is very important to the main plot . For now , I'm going to assume the only clues we have are the ones given during the story so far .

For what I read , around 10,000 years ago there was a huge change in the world's climate . The world became a lot colder than in the present . Humans were almost in the border of extintion . For unknown reasons , some of that humans had children who were born as some kind of blood - sucking , inmortal monsters . The first original pureblood vampires . There are no explanations yet how were the conditions for this to happens . The present purebloods are direct descendants of those original pureblood vampires . Those purebloods appeared in different parts of the world . Cases were not related to one family or ethinic group . Many humans get scared of their mutant kids and try to get rid of them without results . Purebloods started to feed on humans . The first Level D vampires appeared as a result of being bitten by purebloods . Sometime , some pureblood vampire mixed with a human or ex - human - now Level D vampire and the original noble vampires were born . Level D mixed with each other or with other Level B as the origin of common vampires / Level C .

The most possible explanation for the original purebloods to appear has to involve soem kind of mutation related to the weather change and the causes for the decimation of the human population . A nuclear war / nuclear accident ?????? Some viral illness mutation ????? Some natural disaster ????? I had no answers here .

The point is , no matter what were the conditions for the origin for the first pureblood vampires , these conditions appeared to be unique . They had not returned to be recreated in the next 10,000 years . Expecting to see new cases at the present time of V. K. is a no for now . At least Kaname when mentioned the volcano / lave incident , said the weather changes it could cause was not enough to alter the whole world's climate .

So if the conditions for humans giving bith to pureblood vampires are recreated again . It's probably be humans parents giving birth to purebloods vampires . I don't would expect see pureblood children born from a ex - human turned vampire and a pureblood vampire . The normal outcome for the union of a pureblood vampire and any kind od non - pureblood vampire or a human is a noble or Level B vampire . If Zero and Yuuki have kids in that scenario the result will be a noble vampire son / daughter with the ability to use anti - vampire weapons .

In the scenario of a Zeki ending with Yuuki human and Zero as a vampire ( Personally I doubt this to happens . ) Their kids will be Level C vampires with the ability to use anti - vampire weapons .

In the rare possibility of both Zero and Yuuki becoming humans , the result probably be a human - vampire hunter with more pureblood genes than any human . An offspring very similar to the case of Kaien Cross . ( Who I suspect is the son of a former pureblood - turned human and a human vampire hunter . )

Theory A:

Shizuka's lover was a Level D vampire . There is no evidence of him drinking blood from Shizuka or not .

What I can say is that Shizuka did not seem to be scared of sharing her blood with Ichiru.

Theory B:

Yes, the page I pulled was the origin story of the Ancestors. Hooded Woman's parents survived whatever it was that made Hooded woman a vampire. It makes it less likely that weather change or radiation caused the change. I don't know how scientific Hino-san would go, but its looking more towards controlled mutation/teratogen involving a high-level of scientific knowledge. Especially since random mutation should make for some ugly vampires. (Kaname and the hooded woman are too pretty)

The manga is not clear about the advancement of science in the VK world. Aidou has recruiters visiting him in the moon dorm in an early chapter (chap 5?) concerning his research. Takuma's family owns a pharmaceutical company. The blood tablets it produces are based on the blood of real people, so they are probably able to at least clone cells.

Theory B does cause more problems than it solves: Now anyone could have pureblooded children. So, I'm not too fond of theory B.

*********

About the Zeki stuff: I never claimed that endgame has to involve Yuuki with Zero. Just for long term safety of the bride, I would hope Zero would choose a vampire to be with. (if theory B pans out, Zero could end up with practically anything female)

I actually imagine that Hino-san probably flips a coin whenever she is unsure of what interaction to put in a chapter: Yume or Zeki. Just kidding.... I'm fairly certain that Hino-san knows what pairing will be endgame.

caela wrote:I was unable to find the Kaname reference from chapter 24 on mangareader.

Chapter 24 *A small incident*
Kaname: "Kiryu...you're a suspect as well. You're of a rare lineage of vampire hunters...so I wouldn't be surprised if you developed extraordinary powers.
Zero:"I don't recall doing anything."

Flying (Rido fight, chapter 42)

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2168-20/vampire-knight/chapter-42.html

no matter how much I looked at pic, i didn't see zero flying or some sort of thing which help him to fly. in the next page was a shadow and a lot of bloody rose veins. and later zero's foot was on the veins.

Immune to Pureblood mind control (Rido fight, chapter 42-43),

Did rido tried to control zero's mind? because I searched and I couldn't find it. maybe you show me the panels.

breaks glass with mind (chapter 50, 60).

chapter 50 zero just cracked the window, not break it. did zero broke windows in ch60? I don't remember, maybe you will show me the panel.

The end of the Rido fight had Rido going behind the newly rearrived Yuuki. Rido was on the roof with Zero alone. It looks like Rido was running from Zero.

I don't think rido run away from zero. why should he when he was a cocky PB thinking at himself as a great vampire and he saw zero as his prey.

Zero and bloody rose: I don't think bloody rose and the veins enter in the category special abilities possesed by zero.

The only thing which can be considered as special ability is zero cracking the wall/window, but the rest of them no.

But I understand why some are desperate for zero to be a pureblood: cause they want with so much passion for yuuki and zero to have the same life spam. because if this doesn't happen, zeki can't happen.
and this is the result for crapy theories as"zero became of pureblood due to drinking yuuki's amazing blood."

zero can never be a pureblood it's not a fanfiction we are reading unless like in fictions zero's parents kidnapped zero and ichiru and turned them human or something like that and zero and ichiru were children of shizuka. it wont happen. no way. no way shizuka had any kids.

just by drinking kaname's blood and yuuki's. zero wont be a pureblood.

his condition may stable to common vampire but thats it.


yuuki will marry kaname and live happily with him.

she will stop him from sacrificing himself if thats what he really intends to do. yuuki wont allow it.

sara will die. zero will be become next head of association and live with cross kaien and sayori or maria.

rest well aidou can stay with yuuki and kaname.

the thing about hooded woman's parents were human well it was she that sacrificed herself for the hunters. and well even cross kaien has lived a very long time. that doesnt mean that zero is a pureblood, in that case ichiru should have never died he should also have been a pureblood.

the whole thing about hunters and vampires would be meaningless if zero was shown to be a vampire, he is shown to be from the kiryu family of hunters well i really dont think he is a pureblood.

Flying (Rido fight, chapter 42)

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2168-20/vampire-knight/chapter-42.html

no matter how much I looked at pic, i didn't see zero flying or some sort of thing which help him to fly. in the next page was a shadow and a lot of bloody rose veins. and later zero's foot was on the veins.

Immune to Pureblood mind control (Rido fight, chapter 42-43),

Did rido tried to control zero's mind? because I searched and I couldn't find it. maybe you show me the panels.

breaks glass with mind (chapter 50, 60).

chapter 50 zero just cracked the window, not break it. did zero broke windows in ch60? I don't remember, maybe you will show me the panel.

The end of the Rido fight had Rido going behind the newly rearrived Yuuki. Rido was on the roof with Zero alone. It looks like Rido was running from Zero.


I don't think rido run away from zero. why should he when he was a cocky PB thinking at himself as a great vampire and he saw zero as his prey.

Zero and bloody rose: I don't think bloody rose and the veins enter in the category special abilities possesed by zero.

The only thing which can be considered as special ability is zero cracking the wall/window, but the rest of them no.

But I understand why some are desperate for zero to be a pureblood: cause they want with so much passion for yuuki and zero to have the same life spam. because if this doesn't happen, zeki can't happen.
and this is the result for crapy theories as"zero became of pureblood due to drinking yuuki's amazing blood."

Good Morning Aya-chan,

I'm in too good a mood right now to debate stuff, but I guess I could get somewhat serious...

About the flying: I'm actually more of a "Hajime no Ippo", "Kaiji" etc shounen manga fan. The girly manga never really excited me. I guess Vampire Knight was just too good...oh, I forget, that I had a point.

Look at the page again: The top panel has "sonic boom" markings near the front of the vines and bricks falling down from the impact. If you were a shounen manga fan, you would have known that panel as showing someone flying into a building pretty fast. The vines belong to Zero's Bloody Rose.

I would get into the other stuff, but seriously, I'm tried of defending my silly theory.

I GIVE UP.

The one thing I would like to say is that I actually wouldn't want Zero to be a pureblood if I cared about his feelings. Zero would really commit suicide if he found out that he were pureblood. Why I wrote the theory....ehh....I'm too tired to remember or care....Now, I am a Zeki. If Zeki happens, it happens. Vampire Knight is still awesome no matter who Yuuki chooses.

I'm only desperate for chapter 76.

@Caela:
No matter how much I look at that panel I still don't see zero flying, no wing-wing there. did you deduct this by his dissapearance in that specific panel?
did ever crossed your mind that panel purpose was to show bloody rose power?

In first arc is a panel with takuma who was on ground and next he was on the roof of a building. but he did not fly to get there nor used a ladder, i guess he jumped.

In my opinion, zero jumped to dogde bloody rose effects, he did not fly. for example, to fly, kaname useed bats and I guess yuuki will use her butterfly wings.

This is a poll from Baidu Official V. K. fandom :

The ranking is called 投票】优姬的结局 = "What will become the VK ending for Yuuki?"


couple V. K.

The result is in Chinese . But easy to see which were the results .

Ta Ta Ta Tan ... !

零姬 (ZeroxYuuk) = 832 votes (28.8%), 枢姬 (KanamexYuuki) = 1,712 votes (59.3%), Yuuki alone 340 votes (11.7%)

So who's the winner?

mariangie wrote:This is a poll from Baidu Official V. K. fandom :

The ranking is called 投票】优姬的结局 = "What will become the VK ending for Yuuki?"


couple V. K.

The result is in Chinese . But easy to see which were the results .

Ta Ta Ta Tan ... !

零姬 (ZeroxYuuk) = 832 votes (28.8%), 枢姬 (KanamexYuuki) = 1,712 votes (59.3%), Yuuki alone 340 votes (11.7%)

So who's the winner?

Thanks Maria! This is awesome!