Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

There ,,, I share the same idea!
I think this is the ultimate purpose of Kaname's plan, to reformed a senate by the new generation of nobles vampires who share with him the ideology of co-existence and they don't follow the PBs blindly!

The night class was an experiment and IMO was a successful one, since the night class protected the humans when they had to.

And Zero being a vampire himself he can be the leader of hunters establishing a new era in relationships between humans and vampires based on trust.

Though it's a very optimistic scenario ...

I agree, that seems to be the fare and sensible goal for Kaname to achieve. He has wanted to achieve that in the past and will do so as long as he lives. Co-existence is a very strong purpose, and I understand Kaname's supposed "violent" acts is similar to many people who have tried to achieve peace. Blood has to spill and you are forced to hurt even the ones you love (this concept is greatly emphasized in my religious text, The Bhagyavat-Gita). To make Yuuki the final leader is sensible enough, and I'm just wondering how he's going to destroy Sara and how many people he has to sacrifice to do it. I'm hoping Zero will join in the cause as well, not just with the vampires but also keep the hunters on their grounds (since some of the people from the hunter's association joined sides with the Senate).

All in all, rivals will join forces, enemies will clash, all for the name of love and peace, and it's going to be EPIC!!!


I just wonder what Kaname will do in the end once he succeeds. Co-existence has been his one and ultimate goal, so after that, will he finally kill himself and be at peace? Will Yuuki be the new queen? Will Zero be her knight in shining armor or king? GOD so many possibilities!

.........

I was looking back the previous chapters now that we have more clues of Kaname’s actions and I think Kaname already had given a “taste” of his goals …

1. He takes the position as the leader of vampires …

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v11/c053/21.html

… but he also comments that this alone isn’t enough to change the lifestyle and the principles of his race …

2. He also says that the same goes for the hunters … seems like he is implying that the hunters as well should change their ways/tradition/thinking/acting.

And continuing … “ Both sides got to drive the pus out of their wounds …” so he says clearly that inside the HA there are rotten fruits or powers who oppose the idea of co-existence?! Hmm I wonder in what particular he was referring on!??? Did he had something specific in mind or he was talking in general???

3. “ … our race will also take upon itself to deliver eternal sleep to any of our kind unduly presenting a threat to human lives …”

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v11/c053/25.html

Here! … the motive and the substance of Kaname’s plan … he takes the responsibility to “remove” any threat for the humans coming from his race!
Furthermore the hunters agreed on Kaname’s words and they “signed the contract” … so Kaname has the legitimate authority to deal with the “thorns” in his kind! And take a note is an authority which the hunters agreed upon! (sorry for emphasize on this so much but I have read some comments that Kaname is playing the “god” running a killing spree without any authority! *SIGH*)

This could also be a big clue about the reasons he wiped off Hanadagi and punished the other vampire in ch. 71. Also is safe to assume that Sara’s row is coming …

4. And then he concludes saying the true co-existence is still a long road away … his race should overcome their violent nature …” >>> that I think goes to the new generation who will be educated so one day a true and strong coexistence will materialized without the necessity of his authority and the hunters watchdogs supervision! But until then …

Now there is a critical point in their agreement …

Cross concludes saying that two societies should work together, set up a higher level of cooperation …

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v11/c053/25.html

This could be one reason why the hunters recognized Kaname as a “dangerous” vampire for the time being … he didn’t informed them for his actions or he didn’t cooperate with them … thus far it seems that Kaname operates on his own.

But this also could be only on the surface or it could be unveiled later on …

I’m saying this cuz Kaname said there is “pus” among the hunters too, which should be removed and the hunters didn’t argue on that. So if this is true is one reason not to be announced such a collaboration and hence to be jeopardized the whole project.
Also except from Cross the other hunters don’t trust Kaname and Yagari made that crystal clear several times! So Cross maybe is the only one who could know or cope with Kaname.
Another sign of this is the hunters’ actions … or better the lack of action … seems like they’re doing nothing to track Kaname’s whereabouts!
Furthermore Cross agreed on re-opening the NC, insisted on the agreement which was signed under the Kuran’s name and somehow drove Yuuki to take the place of Kaname in order to prevent any other PB to step on.

And lastly another remark by Cross …

Cross: “ The way you solved the council problem was too drastic … are you certain that despite that the rest of the vampires will accept you as their leader, especially the other PBs?
Kaname: Indeed … I guess we’ll have the answer by seeing the percentage of the attendees on the ball …”

So Kaname’s leadership was acceptable from the vampires/PBs or it could be there are movements behind the scenes which targeting his position?
And if so, who could be working together for this goal?
As we saw from the first arc there were powers from all parties which cooperated … they had common interest to fight the idea of co-existence, to maintain the status quo, each for his purposes … I could say the conservatives vs the revolutionists (>> Kaname, Cross, NC)

>From the PBs >>> Rido (Shizuka had her own agenda)
>From the vampire society >>> Ichiou and the senate
>From the hunters >>> the president of HA

… So this time whose gonna take the places of the former villains???

>From the PBs >>> Sara OR she isn’t alone since except from Ouri sama we didn’t see any other PB to attend at the ball! ???
>From vampire society >>> Aidou dono ??? (>> for that I have great doubts, but currently I can’t think any one else. He also could be lured in a “messy” situation against Kaname by darkly means, without realising it, under his anxiety about Kaname’s plan … ? )
>From the hunters >>> ?

the agreement between Kaname and the hunters, I understand its like this:
Because the council was destroyed, Kaname become the head representative of vampires and so he establish/reinforced a treaty with the hunters.
However everyone doubts Kaname's integrity as leader because of what he just did, hence the comment of the hunters doubting if he could even get the support of the other vampires. Kaname said he will know that through the number of guests going to his party.
Kaname said what happened was beneficial for both sides because the head leaders of both groups were killed (his comment about "driving the pus out" means that the leaders were "infected" or something and needed to be removed), Yagari complains about this because Kaname's action created chaos and gave them more work by disturbing the level E's that the Council kept under control. However I believe that this was an inevitable result as the council is doing some form of atrocities and illegal stuff during their regime and level E's are part of it...anyway just a theory. So Kaname says that the hunters are in a way obligated to clean up this mess and it is their job after all because of what they owe to a pureblood in the past.
The treaty was concluded by Kaname as head representative, and Kaien as figurehead for president:
hunter's side- promises to engage in a higher level of cooperation but will punish vampires if they find a legal excuse.
vampire side- agree to cooperate with the association for the good of both races and will punish vampires who harm humans.
Kaname believes coexistence is still a long way to go, vampires need to overcome their nature first and become "sincere and capable of following logic and reasoning" --perhaps this is a hint to what he plans to accomplish, or maybe he already knows what Yuki will do?? (After all he did say he knew what path she will take.... )

sweetsolace wrote: However everyone doubts Kaname's integrity as leader because of what he just did,

Agreed. However if you ask me this is ridiculous from the hunters … proving again that they are good for nothing … the only thing that they can do is deal with level-es … For me Yagari represent the old … although his judgement was right when he went against the HA in the first arc.

Kaname said what happened was beneficial for both sides because the head leaders of both groups were killed (his comment about "driving the pus out" means that the leaders were "infected" or something and needed to be removed)

From the translation I have in mind (SGK) I’m not sure that Kaname was referring only in the past … Yagari yes … he took Kaname’s comment like this and turned the conversation on what Kaname did with the senate, but for Kaname I have my doubts … I can’t prove it, it’s just a hunch since Kaname’s words often are foggy at the very least lol.

Yagari complains about this because Kaname's action created chaos and gave them more work by disturbing the level E's that the Council kept under control. However I believe that this was an inevitable result as the council is doing some form of atrocities and illegal stuff during their regime and level E's are part of it...anyway just a theory.

Exactly and that’s why I said that Yagari’s (hunters) stance is ridiculous … what was the alternative to deal with the messy situation? I haven’t heard any suggestion from them so far … They are so persistent on sticking to the “rules” when it’s proven from the facts that these “rules” are totally deficient and unable to protect the humans >>> their first priority!

vampire side- agree to cooperate with the association for the good of both races and will punish vampires who harm humans.

And that’s the key point IMO of what Kaname is doing currently. Since the true co-existence through changing nature and attitude is a long way ahead in the meantime he takes the responsibility to “deliver eternal sleep to any of his kind who is a threat to human lives”!

The hunters agreed on that and at least from their side he has the authority to proceed …

nina wrote:
And that’s the key point IMO of what Kaname is doing currently. Since the true co-existence through changing nature and attitude is a long way ahead in the meantime he takes the responsibility to “deliver eternal sleep to any of his kind who is a threat to human lives”!

The hunters agreed on that and at least from their side he has the authority to proceed …

I agree with you... Here are the hunter's blunders:

1. The hunters first suspected Kaname has something to do with Sara's wrong doings--which I believe is an overblown suspicion that is solely on the idea that Kaname "has always been dealing with matters of the purebloods" (totally forgetting that Kaname is ALSO the one leading pacifist ideals, not slavery ideals ) but its ok to suspect...after all they knew Kaname wiped out the council...which he explained to them before.
however their method of questioning Aido for a suspicion they lack solid evidence on is really pushing it. Worst of all, the people who can prove this wrong is not really putting anything productive on the plate: Kaien and Zero

http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-65-page-15.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-65-page-16.html

Aido had his say but he was still detained like that! The suspicion on Kaname was not even that strong to push some answers out of him. they were being irrational there...poor aido
Their suspicion was also a bit subjective, I think... Did they forget that Kaname was PART of their treaty, and that he represents vampires? And for this, he was interested in peace as he did suggest that they will cooperate? And he was the one present on their meetings all the time? It was like they suspected he was in league with the dark forces in that moment, and by pushing answers out of Aido, the answers they want to hear apparently, it's similar to trying to prove Kaname has something dark up his sleeve. which I think is quite wrong of them to do...they are supposed to be neutral.

Another thing they are forgetting is exactly what you said that contained in their treaty: “deliver eternal sleep to any of his kind who is a threat to human lives”
Kaname included this himself, it makes utterly no sense at all if they have strong suspicions that he is going against this by allying himself with Sara! (Sara's actions contrasts with Kaname's as she's using human lives for her personal whims... while Kaname wiped out the council because they were corrupt, punished Touma because he hurt Yuki, and the yet unexplained murder of hanadagi and nagamichi... but note the difference is that sara deals with human lives while kaname deals with vampire's)

conclusion: their suspicions are groundless and they have taken in Aido and interrogated him harshly for nothing

2. Putting Yuki on the suspicion table next...
Apparently Kaien and corporation witnessed Kaname killing Nagamichi and possibly they also ruled out the murder with Hanadagi as Kaname's doing...
so they took in Yuki for questioning.

there's a huge wtf here...
...
They're forgetting again the contents of the treaty:
“ Kaname has the right to deliver eternal sleep to any of his kind who is a threat to human lives”
The point is that the hunters are as much in the dark that Hanadagi could be a threat to human lives (they don't know that), nor do they know if Nagamichi's death was necessary... In fact, these vampires are not even within their scope! These are vampires that are within kaname's scope as head representative... The hunter's scope, according to treaty, is to punish vampires who they think needs legitimate excuse to be punished, but is the death of a VAMPIRE within their scope?? that is the question we don't know and we're not clarified... Are they also responsible for any irrational loss of life for BOTH sides? Because if this is true then they have the right to butt in and intrude with vampire business...
but if not they're just intruding unnecessarily :x and they're disregarding everything Kaname had done in the past, their treaty and everything else for the sake of the murder they see now..

furthermore by keeping Yuki under watch inspite of the fact that Kaien did tell her she has freedom to move around the association, (a hunter was following her even when she was outside ), when she has already said she doesn't know anything about Kaname's intentions... Moreover, this all happens despite what Kaien knows of her adopted daughter.
They stretch this further by keeping guards around in the academy where she aims to establish the treaty and strengthen it... One of the guards, Zero, even FORBID her to talk with Yori! They are overdoing it IMO..

3. The greatest crime is that with all these events, they COMPLETELY neglected the suspicion on Sara... Instead they focused their suspicion on innocent witnesses and concentrate their forces there!



If that hunter gives in to Sara's pleas voluntarily, that makes their law enforcing skills terribly lousy IMO.

As for the defense on Kaname being dubbed as "playing God"..
- why not. He does have powers that can be considered god-like
-he did create many of the major foundations in vampire society today:
1.Kuran pacifism:he is the ancestor of Kurans, makes sense he begun it too
2. A Kuran that came from his roots also removed the monarchy which was replaced by the senate and the association that we see today. Practically speaking he is one of the founders of that system.
3. He gave hunters the knowledge how to use the antivampire weapons. They won't be hunters without him.
4. He was also responsible for the creation of hunters as they are now by starting the experiment, through which with the sacrifice of the woman they were able to gain power of the hunter and the instinct to hate vampires
5. The survival of the human race was due in part of his speculated leadership during the war with the humans and vampires
6. He is a pureblood. Believe me that adds to the authority of a "god" due to the power and abilities alone.

For this Kaname is god-like... he is not "playing" god because he can be a god if he wants to... it's the same for other purebloods if they wanted to...

sweetsolace wrote:
For this Kaname is god-like... he is not "playing" god because he can be a god if he wants to... it's the same for other purebloods if they wanted to...

What its ok for Kaname to be a God? Storywise that does not bode good for Kaname. When characters start dictating what is good for everyone else, because they have the power or the "knowledge" it NEVER ends well.

Only ultimate villains should want to be or act god-like. Unless you're cool with Kaname turning villain, this shouldn't be a path he goes down.

In fiction, there's a big difference between a hero who is a visionary and guiding others to change or defending the world against ultimate wrongs using all your powers - to a dictator who chooses to shape the world in their vision because he simply has the power or authority to or "have the right to", the latter is usually seen as corrupted.

Knightmare... it seems to me that you wanted Sara to win and become Queen of the Damned.

A reason for what kaname is doing now is vampire society itself. when kaname step down from his position, the vampire council who had the duty to watch over vampires forgot completely about their job and was more preocupied to save their own lifes. in the chapter after kaname killed hanadagi and aidou-dono, we have a vampire coucil what isn't preocupied at all for the humans life. in that 2 panels, they talk only about their lifes and forgot completely about humans, the vulnerable ones.
after yuuki came to them to ask them to give her the support for night class, once again they was preocupied for their lifes.
vampire society is rooten and kaname know this, the hunters know this too, but sometimes they forget some things.

kaname fought in the past (his ancestor time and when he rule night class) to bring co-existence. but always was someone what deffy him. Ichiou tried to kill all purebloods, but his plans contained humans sacrifice.
in his plans, kaname didn't used humans as a shield. when he had something with someone, that someone was a vampire not a human.
the fact humans are attacked by vampires is the result of the rooten society.
I doubt kaname is against all purebloods / vampires, kaname is against the one what hurt humans, against the one what see humans as food.
kaname is feed up to be nice. in the past he tried to obtain peace between humans and vampires but he didn't succeded. maybe force and fear will convince vampires to behave.

Night class is a symbol for co-existence. night class is an example for the vampires outside academy, who don't receive the same education,it is possible to learn to live with humans without them watching humans as their food.
it is impossible to gather all vampires in night class and to educate them. if the vampire outside academy don't take example from night class, then the co-existence will be limited only at night class.
if the vampires outside academy won't take night class as a reper for them, then yuuki or any other vampire what will try to obtain co-existence will not obtain a full co-existence.

yuuki is a kind hearted girl. it is normal for her to try to do everything she can (a peacefull way) to obtain peace. kaname lived more than yuuki, so it is normal for him to act harsher when his previous efforts didn't had effect.

vampires hunters annoying me lately. they know sara is ploting something, but they didn't call her to interogate her or takuma, instead, they kidnap aidou and interogate him, making assuptions kaname is ploting with sara. kaien should know better, kaname always tried to obtain peace, he never used humans in his plans. hunters know sara turn girls in vampires but they don't even asked her officially about this. what's wrong with them?

Knightmare wrote:
What its ok for Kaname to be a God? Storywise that does not bode good for Kaname. When characters start dictating what is good for everyone else, because they have the power or the "knowledge" it NEVER ends well.

Only ultimate villains should want to be or act god-like. Unless you're cool with Kaname turning villain, this shouldn't be a path he goes down.

In fiction, there's a big difference between a hero who is a visionary and guiding others to change or defending the world against ultimate wrongs using all your powers - to a dictator who chooses to shape the world in their vision because he simply has the power or authority to or "have the right to", the latter is usually seen as corrupted.

I only said Kaname "can be" considered god-like because of his abilities and also because he created several of the things and "like" a god he also can destroy them again. I didn't mean about beings trying to be god by ruling the world and can be judged as evil or good that's another story IMO, and the intentions are what makes it different. Kaname is "god-like" but not trying to be god in the first place he's more like Judgment or something.
How this is received depends entirely on point of views.
There are many types of heroes and villains. I think Kaname is a complex character so that separates him from the stereotyped cliches commonly found in heroes, he had too many rough experiences in his life and this continuously shaped his views and beliefs into what we see now. It depends how much good his action achieves and how much bad we've yet to see, as for me I won't decide now since it's a bit early and Hino uses tricks to fool her readers, but I believe Kaname has a reason for doing what he does (of course its obvious he isnt doing that because he lost his mind ), and I lean more to the side of him that aims to deliver peace since that was consistent of his character since. its up to the readers how they see his actions.

aya-chan wrote:A reason for what kaname is doing now is vampire society itself. when kaname step down from his position, the vampire council who had the duty to watch over vampires forgot completely about their job and was more preocupied to save their own lifes. in the chapter after kaname killed hanadagi and aidou-dono, we have a vampire coucil what isn't preocupied at all for the humans life. in that 2 panels, they talk only about their lifes and forgot completely about humans, the vulnerable ones.
after yuuki came to them to ask them to give her the support for night class, once again they was preocupied for their lifes.
vampire society is rooten and kaname know this, the hunters know this too, but sometimes they forget some things.

kaname fought in the past (his ancestor time and when he rule night class) to bring co-existence. but always was someone what deffy him. Ichiou tried to kill all purebloods, but his plans contained humans sacrifice.
in his plans, kaname didn't used humans as a shield. when he had something with someone, that someone was a vampire not a human.
the fact humans are attacked by vampires is the result of the rooten society.
I doubt kaname is against all purebloods / vampires, kaname is against the one what hurt humans, against the one what see humans as food.
kaname is feed up to be nice. in the past he tried to obtain peace between humans and vampires but he didn't succeded. maybe force and fear will convince vampires to behave.

Night class is a symbol for co-existence. night class is an example for the vampires outside academy, who don't receive the same education,it is possible to learn to live with humans without them watching humans as their food.
it is impossible to gather all vampires in night class and to educate them. if the vampire outside academy don't take example from night class, then the co-existence will be limited only at night class.
if the vampires outside academy won't take night class as a reper for them, then yuuki or any other vampire what will try to obtain co-existence will not obtain a full co-existence.

yuuki is a kind hearted girl. it is normal for her to try to do everything she can (a peacefull way) to obtain peace. kaname lived more than yuuki, so it is normal for him to act harsher when his previous efforts didn't had effect.

vampires hunters annoying me lately. they know sara is ploting something, but they didn't call her to interogate her or takuma, instead, they kidnap aidou and interogate him, making assuptions kaname is ploting with sara. kaien should know better, kaname always tried to obtain peace, he never used humans in his plans. hunters know sara turn girls in vampires but they don't even asked her officially about this. what's wrong with them?

yes totally! the hunters should be more alert and on their toes this time... :x they fail to see who is the more deceiving enemy that they should be on guard... if sara manages to slip past them.... it will be their blame

sweetsolace wrote:yes totally! the hunters should be more alert and on their toes this time... :x they fail to see who is the more deceiving enemy that they should be on guard... if sara manages to slip past them.... it will be their blame

Sara will join academy. at the end of chapters 71 say something like new students are going to come at academy. that is sara with her little girls. if hunters agree to sara request they are idiots. they know about sara nauthy behavior but they don't do nothing about it.

I think we will have more yori soon. the fact her father was involved in the story and he put his daugther in cross care means something (sara) will try to harm her. i hope she will be ok and she won't be sara victim.

Totally agree with the “criticism” over the hunters!

Just to analyze a bit further some things …

About Cross stance: I have wondering about him many times. Currently he is also in the “black list” for the hunters due to what have done in the 1st arc and the warning he received from Yagari about his interactions with Kaname proves that they don’t trust him completely. So he must be formal and closer to hunters’ view/policy even if his beliefs it might be quite different. Also I’m not sure what he knows about Kaname’s doings. Judging from 1st arc he might know much more than he’s letting us and the others believe that he knows. Furthermore about what he said to Yuuki that Kaname isn’t the same Kaname they knew … I’m not sure if he believed so, or it was an act to restrain Yuuki … Also he has contacts with Isaya too, and I don't think his visit was just for only a greeting.
So I have my questions but I’ll be waiting for the next chapters to see why he’s acting like the others oblivious, biased and narrow minded hunters.


The only thing that might can be used for their defense is the part of the agreement over the cooperation … as I said thus far Kaname seems to operate on his own without informing them for his plans.
But there is also something that they did “wrong” towards Kaname beforehand … despite the fact that they signed a new, fresh “contract” with him, in other words they “trusted” him as an ally, at the same time with the first questionable opportunity “violated” that trust by arresting and interrogating Hanabusa (>> Kaname’s right hand) without any reason! Why; and under which authority and what accusation? Hanabusa didn’t do anything to justify their actions towards him and furthermore they showed clearly that they suspecting Kaname of been an ally with Sara with none evidence! And while they spend their time to harshly interrogating poor Hanabusa, Sara was plotting undisturbed! Ridiculous!

So in conclusion they were the first ones who broke this part of agreement by withdrew their trust! So if there is no an undercover cooperation then Kaname is justified for not informing them for his actions.

sweetsolace wrote: As for the defense on Kaname being dubbed as "playing God"..
- why not. He does have powers that can be considered god-like
-he did create many of the major foundations in vampire society today:
1.Kuran pacifism:he is the ancestor of Kurans, makes sense he begun it too
2. A Kuran that came from his roots also removed the monarchy which was replaced by the senate and the association that we see today. Practically speaking he is one of the founders of that system.
3. He gave hunters the knowledge how to use the antivampire weapons. They won't be hunters without him.
4. He was also responsible for the creation of hunters as they are now by starting the experiment, through which with the sacrifice of the woman they were able to gain power of the hunter and the instinct to hate vampires
5. The survival of the human race was due in part of his speculated leadership during the war with the humans and vampires
6. He is a pureblood. Believe me that adds to the authority of a "god" due to the power and abilities alone.

For this Kaname is god-like... he is not "playing" god because he can be a god if he wants to... it's the same for other purebloods if they wanted to...

All true!!!!
You are tempting me to go fangirling again haha.

Although he is a divine creature lol and if he wanted he could play the God, considering his powers and his exquisite mind, he didn’t. Kaname has his own “weaknesses” …
a) Yuuki … she is his soft spot … he is as vulnerable as Yuuki is. And this is an additional reason why Yuuki should be kept as a secret in the mansion until she’ll be ready to be introduced as Kaname’s most valuable person …
b) His humanity. He never used humans as shield, as food, or as tools to achieve his goals as senate did for example. He had never harmed any innocent. He also has humans’ reactions … he felt desperate, sank to depression and chose slumber as a way out.

As for his “vision” and his methods … the criticism (if not bashing) over him is the most unjustified biased and absurd thing I’ve ever read …
Why should be questioned his vision? Clearly he wants a better (not perfect!) world for humans, for vampires and for Yuuki of course … she is his motivation and inspiration! What’s wrong about it?
Also if anyone wants to judge Kaname’s doings/methods should bases his judgment on Kaname’s previous actions/past, since currently nobody knows why he killed Hanadagi and Aidou-dono or why he punished the other vampire. To judge and condemn something or someone beforehand “betray” bias and preconception.

In the 1st arc the villains and their intentions/goals were announced/declared and Kaname dealt with them after their moves, but in the 2nd arc I think Hino follows the reverse course … we see Kaname doings before we know why he takes action. She adds more mystery IMO.

Another thing that caught my attention is Yagari’s words about the humans in high levels who know the existence of vampires …

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v11/c051/6.html

… Yagari says clearly that these people are burning to use the vampires (probably and the PBs too). Also Juri had mentioned something like that to Cross.

If we add also the entry of Yori’s father >>> a congressman I think it’s quite possible now humans in powerful positions playing a significant role … most probably a bad one.
After all Yagari already made the connection “… just like the previous HA president … “ >>> now powerful humans (politicians/businessmen) could cooperate with villains vampires and PBs (> Sara?) each for their reasons …

About Cross stance: I have wondering about him many times. Currently he is also in the “black list” for the hunters due to what have done in the 1st arc and the warning he received from Yagari about his interactions with Kaname proves that they don’t trust him completely. So he must be formal and closer to hunters’ view/policy even if his beliefs it might be quite different. Also I’m not sure what he knows about Kaname’s doings. Judging from 1st arc he might know much more than he’s letting us and the others believe that he knows. Furthermore about what he said to Yuuki that Kaname isn’t the same Kaname they knew … I’m not sure if he believed so, or it was an act to restrain Yuuki … Also he has contacts with Isaya too, and I don't think his visit was just for only a greeting.
So I have my questions but I’ll be waiting for the next chapters to see why he’s acting like the others oblivious, biased and narrow minded hunters.

Is like kaien has different personality in second arc. in the first arc i truly believe he knew a part of kaname plan's. i believe her knew about rido existence and the fact rido will come after yuuki. kaien didn't seem to mind kaname plans and this because kaname will not let vampires to harm humans.

but now in the second arc, he jump at conclusions, makind assumptions kaname had something to do with sara, when he knows perfectly kaname want co-existence to fulfill his parents dream,but kaname want to accomplish his goal too. co-existence was kaname dream / purpouse since his ancestor times.

In that year something happened with vampire society, some of purebloods made sneaky moves(sara). i suspect the one who kidnap children is a pureblood. kaname watched over handagi casttle with a reason. before he left the house, cain and ruka said to him are movements at hanadagi castle.
if everything was ok when the new vampire council was formed, kaname wouldnt have done all this (steping down from his position and trying to fulfil his previous plan). kaname know something is happening between purebloods and he started to take measures for this.

The only thing that might can be used for their defense is the part of the agreement over the cooperation … as I said thus far Kaname seems to operate on his own without informing them for his plans.
But there is also something that they did “wrong” towards Kaname beforehand … despite the fact that they signed a new, fresh “contract” with him, in other words they “trusted” him as an ally, at the same time with the first questionable opportunity “violated” that trust by arresting and interrogating Hanabusa (>> Kaname’s right hand) without any reason! Why; and under which authority and what accusation? Hanabusa didn’t do anything to justify their actions towards him and furthermore they showed clearly that they suspecting Kaname of been an ally with Sara with none evidence! And while they spend their time to harshly interrogating poor Hanabusa, Sara was plotting undisturbed! Ridiculous!

So in conclusion they were the first ones who broke this part of agreement by withdrew their trust! So if there is no an undercover cooperation then Kaname is justified for not informing them for his actions.

If i remember correctly a part of their agreement say kaname is the one who decide when existe a conflict between vampires. he has the right to punish them.
kaname was the one what punished touma when he attacked yuuki.
apparently didn't existed a conflict between kaname and hanadagi, but later we will find out why kaname killed him.
hunters say they have the right to but in because humans are affected, but why they didn't asked a meeting with vampire council when kaname left and ask the vampire coucil to do their job, to watch over vampires?
hunters just send some of them in missions to solve the problems, but what kaien or yagari did was to sat on a chair and make wrong assumtions.

and now we have sara who came at HA to beg charity or a shelter under her head. she is too scared by kaname. and of course the hunters will buy this and will sent the wolf between sheeps, they will put in danger day class and they will be close to the same situation in first arc when rido attacked academy. the difference will be the wolf is a she not a he.

Aya-chan wrote: Is like kaien has different personality in second arc.
.
.
but now in the second arc, he jump at conclusions, makind assumptions kaname had something to do with sara, when he knows perfectly kaname want co-existence to fulfill his parents dream,but kaname want to accomplish his goal too. co-existence was kaname dream / purpouse since his ancestor times.

Yes he seems like he did a “personality transplant” lol. I’ll be very sad if it turns to be that way in reality … I mean if his stance is genuine and not an act to balance between his obligations as a HA president and his beliefs. How could his trust on Kaname “vaporized” just like that … he knew Kaname since he was a child … he saw his struggle and what he had been through under Ichiou’s custody.

Also another thing that makes my wonder … his stance towards Yuuki … he was distanced and formal too, when he interrogated her (>> while was tearing apart inside). Also he didn’t want Yuuki to see him in Isaya’s house! Why? I don’t know if that is relevant or irrelevant with his current stance but is also weird …

And Isaya also said a weird phrase …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/69/10

Why he thinks hunters’ reputation will turn bad too? I don’t get it …

Aya-chan wrote: In that year something happened with vampire society, some of purebloods made sneaky moves(sara). i suspect the one who kidnap children is a pureblood. kaname watched over handagi casttle with a reason. before he left the house, cain and ruka said to him are movements at hanadagi castle.

Yes you’re right … and when Ruka and Cain went for the first time at Hanadagi’s castle, his servant said “… more vermin trying to awaken my lord …”

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-21/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

>>> probably there were others too who “visited” Hanadagi’s castle before R&C … could be Sara’s cooperators …


About the council of vampires … I think they are an unofficial formation. Kaname was the only leader and representative of his race. Maybe the only “job” they had was to keep in control lower rank vampires or their servants >> ex-humans, but other than that I don’t know if they had any authority.

Aya-chan wrote: and now we have sara who came at HA to beg charity or a shelter under her head. she is too scared by kaname. and of course the hunters will buy this and will sent the wolf between sheeps, they will put in danger day class and they will be close to the same situation in first arc when rido attacked academy. the difference will be the wolf is a she not a he.

Haha yeah! If they’ll “eat” her fake pleadings for mercy they’ll prove how ineffective they are!
But there is also the possibility to let her entry in the academy on purpose, so they can keep an eye on her more closely … you know like “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” …

nina wrote:Haha yeah! If they’ll “eat” her fake pleadings for mercy they’ll prove how ineffective they are!
But there is also the possibility to let her entry in the academy on purpose, so they can keep an eye on her more closely … you know like “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” …

To allow sara to join academy to keep an eye on her is a good idea. but sara isn't any kind of vampire, she is a pureblood and can manipulate others vampires - what aren't pureblood. and humans are vulnerable too. if hunters will allow sara to join, knowing her past - she like to turn human girls in her slave - they will assume a great risk and the peace they try to achieve will be in danger.
in last chapter kaien amdited they are short handed, it will be hard for they to watched over sara.

aya-chan wrote:

nina wrote:Haha yeah! If they’ll “eat” her fake pleadings for mercy they’ll prove how ineffective they are!
But there is also the possibility to let her entry in the academy on purpose, so they can keep an eye on her more closely … you know like “keep your friends close and your enemies closer” …

To allow sara to join academy to keep an eye on her is a good idea. but sara isn't any kind of vampire, she is a pureblood and can manipulate others vampires - what aren't pureblood. and humans are vulnerable too. if hunters will allow sara to join, knowing her past - she like to turn human girls in her slave - they will assume a great risk and the peace they try to achieve will be in danger.
in last chapter kaien amdited they are short handed, it will be hard for they to watched over sara.

Well honestly I can’t argue with you … this was my first objection over the re-opening of the NC (as Hino’s choice to continue with the action part in the school grounds), and without Kaname around! … lol. And if anything goes wrong the idea of co-existence through a mixed school will take a huge blow if not doomed for ever … I mean if the problem called “Sara” will be resolved silently, like Shizuka’s did and not like Rido’s case then I guess will be fine, but considering Sara's army … I have my doubts.

Either way … yes the hunters are taking a great risk here … But we don’t know yet how they’ll think about it … Are they gonna believe her lies or as I said before they’ll think that due to lack of hands maybe is best to have her restrained in the limited school grounds ??? This is important cuz it could save somehow their reputation … you know like they’re not totally worthless haha.

Furthermore my feeling is that Sara will think twice before jeopardize her place in the academy by biting another human student. The gain is minor considering the loss. She is way more patient than Rido who created a chaos. She’s not driven by uncontrolled emotions (like mad Shizuka), but she has a strategy and this makes her of course a difficult rival. That’s why I think she’ll play by the rules at first cuz she’s aiming higher so the DC will be safe.
IMO the only human being who might be a target for Sara is Yori due to her friendship with Yuuki and Zero … Sara might aiming to use Yori to blackmail or to lure Yuuki or Zero in her web …

Also she chose to present her self as a victim to be, as a scared poor PB in need, while turning the lights on Kaname’s direction. She’s trying to bring Kaname against all the others I think … It’s not on her favor to show her true colors at once.
Kaname vs hunters + Zero + Yuuki (?) … if so, how Yuuki will react? Is she still so naïve to believe her “fears”; or not? For Zero I don’t doubt … he’s not gonna “eat” her act and I think he’ll try to protect Yuuki. And probably Takuma will be another “shield” against Sara eventually.

But the big question is what Kaname will do?

nina wrote:Well honestly I can’t argue with you … this was my first objection over the re-opening of the NC (as Hino’s choice to continue with the action part in the school grounds), and without Kaname around! … lol. And if anything goes wrong the idea of co-existence through a mixed school will take a huge blow if not doomed for ever … I mean if the problem called “Sara” will be resolved silently, like Shizuka’s did and not like Rido’s case then I guess will be fine, but considering Sara's army … I have my doubts.

Either way … yes the hunters are taking a great risk here … But we don’t know yet how they’ll think about it … Are they gonna believe her lies or as I said before they’ll think that due to lack of hands maybe is best to have her restrained in the limited school grounds ??? This is important cuz it could save somehow their reputation … you know like they’re not totally worthless haha.

Furthermore my feeling is that Sara will think twice before jeopardize her place in the academy by biting another human student. The gain is minor considering the loss. She is way more patient than Rido who created a chaos. She’s not driven by uncontrolled emotions (like mad Shizuka), but she has a strategy and this makes her of course a difficult rival. That’s why I think she’ll play by the rules at first cuz she’s aiming higher so the DC will be safe.
IMO the only human being who might be a target for Sara is Yori due to her friendship with Yuuki and Zero … Sara might aiming to use Yori to blackmail or to lure Yuuki or Zero in her web …

Also she chose to present her self as a victim to be, as a scared poor PB in need, while turning the lights on Kaname’s direction. She’s trying to bring Kaname against all the others I think … It’s not on her favor to show her true colors at once.
Kaname vs hunters + Zero + Yuuki (?) … if so, how Yuuki will react? Is she still so naïve to believe her “fears”; or not? For Zero I don’t doubt … he’s not gonna “eat” her act and I think he’ll try to protect Yuuki. And probably Takuma will be another “shield” against Sara eventually.

But the big question is what Kaname will do?

the night class goal is coexistence, kaien goal is to not allow something like last year - rido incident to happen again. if kaien want to avoid problems, then he shouldn't allow sara to join. hunters don't have a clue about sara plans, actually they don't anything at all neither about kaname - they are more blond than a blind.

to allow sara to join can be a good thing, but is bad in the same time too. they can watch over sara and punish her at her first mistake - i am sure zero wait for an oportunity to blow her head.

how you said, sara can target yori. sara knows already yori is a close friend to yuuki and zero. sara will not let escape an opportunity to cause more ploblems. she want to join night class just for fun - sara is a very boored vampire. probably sara will want to turn yori into a vampire. yori probably will appear more in the next chapters.

probably sara will attempt to hurt yuuki too. sara made her moves with a reason and her main goal is too kill kaname. at some point she will lure kaname from where he is. if sara will try to hurt yuuki, kaname will want to chop her head off. kaname will not allow for someone to hurt his precious girl.

kaname-sama where are you? two panels with you wasn't enough for me

[quote="aya-chan]

how you said, sara can target yori. sara knows already yori is a close friend to yuuki and zero. sara will not let escape an opportunity to cause more ploblems. she want to join night class just for fun - sara is a very boored vampire. probably sara will want to turn yori into a vampire. yori probably will appear more in the next chapters.

probably sara will attempt to hurt yuuki too. sara made her moves with a reason and her main goal is too kill kaname. at some point she will lure kaname from where he is. if sara will try to hurt yuuki, kaname will want to chop her head off. kaname will not allow for someone to hurt his precious girl.

kaname-sama where are you? two panels with you wasn't enough for me [/quote]

Me too Aya...very interesting the idea Sara going for Yori in the academy- after all their acquaintance to the vampire's ball seems to pinpoint at a further interaction between the two. Sara was quite fond of Yori and Yori can be used perhaps to contro Yuuki or to eliminate her moves?
what if Sara turned Yori to a slave (another vampire?)...and the others should hide the fact or Yuuki's night class would be in extreme danger.
Of course with Sara in there there is an extreme danger for all the girls but she would not go that far.
also the hunters - I believe they must know- didn't they monitor her moves? they did...I think that right now, perhaps briging her in could be more convenient (they can think of it) in order to better control her than to have her lose outside, especially since now there is the nightclass and all attention is diverted there.

I think that maybe we have another clue in chapter 72 about Kaname’s plan and what he is doing …

But first of all I think we have the confirmation that Kaname was the first King after all … the phrase on the cover "The King who cast aside the world he could see from the throne..." puts Kaname in that position … Now if was he, who also stepped down from his throne and established the senate; I don’t know …

Now since his plan is the original one he had as an ancestor/King we can assume that he is finishing the unfinished job … but what he was doing back then?

We know he “declared” the war against the PBs ancestors who were creating slaves massively. The creation of the anti-vampire weapons and the hunters was a declaration of war lol. So the opponents in that war should be …

a) Kaname as a leader of the ancestors who were against the idea of turning humans into vampires, plus the hunters, plus maybe humans; << for the later I’m not sure cuz their contribution in such war could be limited if not zero …
b) The ancestors-PBs plus their slaves, ex-humans vampires … Now I’m speculate that these ancestors could be the so called “protectors of the PBs” since they wanted to maintain the power to turn the humans into vampires/slaves and also cuz their opponents were killing off PBs.

I’m basing my theory of who were the opponents on hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-18/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

… “more than half of our race has chosen the ideology of turning the entire human population … into submissive slaves” <<< so the majority of the ancestors were against Kaname but I suppose some of them were by his side.

So my idea is that Kaname is wiping off his opponents from back then aka the remaining ancestors (?).

Clues for that ^^^.

1. First of all hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-20/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“… the only way to stop the multiplication of ex-humans being turned is to cut the problem down at the root” … what was the root? I suppose one root could be the ancestors …

2. Hanadagi’s servant’s words … “the Hanadagi family … the protectors of the PBs” << could be this is an indication of the “side” which Hanadagi belonged? I think it is … also Hanadagi was an ancestor and the head of his clan, so it is plausible Kaname and Hanadagi to were old acquaintances or better old enemies from the first war …

3. In the latest chapter (72) Kaname is being accused of killing off the head of the Hio’s who was also in slumber! Hio’s situation resembles with Hanadagi’s case … both of them were the heads of their clans and also in slumber so currently they didn’t do anything wrong. But maybe the head of the Hio’s was also an ancestor; … since Shizuka was much older than Kaname and she wasn’t the head we can assume that the leader of the Hio’s was after all an ancestor; (much older than Shizuka so approximately we driven back on ancestors era).

Another hypothesis from my part … since Kaname became at some point the King of his race I suppose that requires that he won the war; and then for some unknown reason out of despair he chose the eternal slumber. But what happened to his opponents viz the other ancestors? Maybe the ones who survived of the war chose also to go into slumber? Possible … but the question is before Kaname’s slumber; (as an acceptance of defeat ;) or after Kaname’s slumber???? I’m guessing after Kaname’s slumber judging again from the words of Hanadagi’s servant that her lord chose to sleep for 500 years and there are still 400 left before he awakes so he went into slumber 100 years ago, viz way after Kaname’s slumber. Another question … why the ancestors?! And is this enough???

Well I suppose that the remaining of the ancestors were his enemies since Kaname said (before his slumber) that before he notice he was completely alone…

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… ergo if not all of his allies the majority of them were killed.

Also as we know from the fanbook the ancestors are even more powerful from the second PBs generation … so exterminating them right after they’re awakening from their slumber (<< being weaker) is an easier job and avoids annecessary bloodshed ... but the second question remains unanswered ... is this enough? I don’t know … but certainly we still missing lots of info …

Anyway my point was that maybe we can form an idea of how Kaname choosing his targets … based on what criteria? Cuz we’re in the dark for so much time arghhh …

Nina, wonderful idea you have there...

I want to add...

"Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.
Also the war might have ended because the mean purebloods retreated and went into slumber. This is also possible that Kaname did not finish them then, so they survived with their clans up to this days…featuring the same ideology.
Another point that supports here your theory is kaname’s latest attack to Hio’s.
Shizuka for example – Hio had the ideology to turn humans into vampires and thus slaves, I think apart from Zero for reasons of revenge, she did it with her ex-lover in order to have him with her (she was supposed to eat him anyway).
The council now changing people, they all had that philosophy, so even though Kaname had won a war back then, when the council went corrupted, one can say that lost it again…
There is more to see but I think that up to now all these points must connect somehow to light Kaname’s actions and give us a better understanding of the vampire history.

nina wrote:I think that maybe we have another clue in chapter 72 about Kaname’s plan and what he is doing …

But first of all I think we have the confirmation that Kaname was the first King after all … the phrase on the cover "The King who cast aside the world he could see from the throne..." puts Kaname in that position … Now if was he, who also stepped down from his throne and established the senate; I don’t know …

Now since his plan is the original one he had as an ancestor/King we can assume that he is finishing the unfinished job … but what he was doing back then?

We know he “declared” the war against the PBs ancestors who were creating slaves massively. The creation of the anti-vampire weapons and the hunters was a declaration of war lol. So the opponents in that war should be …

a) Kaname as a leader of the ancestors who were against the idea of turning humans into vampires, plus the hunters, plus maybe humans; << for the later I’m not sure cuz their contribution in such war could be limited if not zero …

vs

b) The ancestors-PBs plus their slaves, ex-humans vampires … Now I’m speculate that these ancestors could be the so called “protectors of the PBs” since they wanted to maintain the power to turn the humans into vampires/slaves and also cuz their opponents were killing off PBs.

I’m basing my theory of who were the opponents on hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-18/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

… “more than half of our race has chosen the ideology of turning the entire human population … into submissive slaves” <<< so the majority of the ancestors were against Kaname but I suppose some of them were by his side.

So my idea is that Kaname is wiping off his opponents from back then aka the remaining ancestors (?).

Clues for that ^^^.

1. First of all hooded-woman’s words …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-20/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“… the only way to stop the multiplication of ex-humans being turned is to cut the problem down at the root” … what was the root? I suppose one root could be the ancestors …

agree with everything you said above.. this all ties up to the present.

2. Hanadagi’s servant’s words … “the Hanadagi family … the protectors of the PBs” << could be this is an indication of the “side” which Hanadagi belonged? I think it is … also Hanadagi was an ancestor and the head of his clan, so it is plausible Kaname and Hanadagi to were old acquaintances or better old enemies from the first war …

juliet wrote:"Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.

I second this. If kaname has currently killed two pureblood families Hio and Hanadagi, with one of them claiming to be a family that is the "protector of pbs" then he definitely started off right by killing off the guardian of pbs. But pbs of what? It would make more sense if it said, "protector of the Kurans" right since they established stuff, but it said protector of the purebloods perhaps this is another faction that in a way will possibly oppose kaname's objectives in the future (which is to eliminate pureblood heads) so his first kill was the guardian. well, in theory anyway.

*Previously in this forum it was also discussed about the existence of factions in vampire society such as the pro-Kuran and anti-kurans
pros- aido's and another noble family i forgot
anti- shiki and ichijou

so its also possible there are those who oppose kuran rule in the past.... perhaps this is connected to those deemed as "protector of the pbs"? does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going... because he started with the protector of the pbs... next was hio.. if you just look at motive Kaname has motive to kill off Hio because of what their daughter's plans to kill him... perhaps his killing is also tinted with revenge? i think no... kaname's goal doesnt seem to be marred by personal reasons. So my theory is that Hio is connected with council dealings.
Remember that the senate locked Shizuka up and constantly feed her with regular humans, but they havent revealed to have done the same towards other purebloods? why so? That was before Rido intervened with her exhuman lover right, so the decision to lock shizuka was senate related and hio-related. is it because Shizuka's family consented to her being used by the council? (she was being used by the council.. i will find that page later i hope i remember lol anyway) If her family consented to her getting locked up, after all who'd want their daughter to be freely used under supposedly legit reasons, then their family Hio is guilty of corruption because of its collaboration with the senate's ways. So Kaname has right to kill the head..just what he did with the council. i think his wiping out the council was the beginning step of his plans. the entry phase.

as for Hanadagi's death.. yes one reason could be his family was the "protector of purebloods"... again i have to wonder if this has anything to do with the past, or his family once protected the ancestor purebloods who were kaname's enemies. Also another reason that can hint is hanadagi's knowledge of sara. he seems to be acquaintances with her. hm.

EDIT: as for Hanadagi being the first kill, Im starting to be more open to the possibility that Kaname is using Sara's plans to get started, he probably knew that Sara was going after Hanadagi, whose castle needed ouri power to be unlocked so Kaname used this to his advantage and let Sara weaken hanadagi. Then when his heart was gone he killed him. Then Aido dono (still dont know why T_T) as to why he's "allowing" sara to run free i think he does this on purpose, with the clue given in the heading "the king who abandoned his throne" etc it gives the feeling that kaname doesn't care about vampire society anymore, so why would he care what Sara's destruction does to vampire society? I also think he definitely has plans for her, only for now he lets her go, because her plans suits his... sara is in a way, part of his pawns. its a chess game after all.. well in theory

EDIT2: Shizuka...remember when her lover was killed off, and she escaped.. she didn't go back to her family who were still alive as we've seen? Also when Ichiru and her escaped after killing the Kiryuus, it was said they went into hiding.. (lol if you want to know where i can look or i will post the link later) The point is that Shizuka did not consider hiding in the Hio's. her own family. The question is WHY? Before I thought she was the only Hio remaining because of her lack of mention to them, but they were alive and she never went there? Again.. why? I get the feeling that her family sold her to the Senate and abandoned her to be imprisoned like that... So Shizuka always felt lonely and wanted to die. So this gives another more reason for Kaname to kill off the Hio head. Remember Kaname also promised not to make her death in vain, by killing off the one responsible... I think he had fulfilled her promise

juliet wrote:
Also the war might have ended because the mean purebloods retreated and went into slumber. This is also possible that Kaname did not finish them then, so they survived with their clans up to this days…featuring the same ideology.
Another point that supports here your theory is kaname’s latest attack to Hio’s.
The council now changing people, they all had that philosophy, so even though Kaname had won a war back then, when the council went corrupted, one can say that lost it again…

it could be so... kaname mentioned something about purebloods back then being in large numbers but because of the war and time i guess their number grew scarce. will find that page later.
So I think its unavoidable that some purebloods must die in the war.. and the ones who remained.. well so far in vampire knight they have stayed quiet right, during the phase of the school arc, so the dangerous puerbloods back then probably perished but what remained is that corruptive power-thinking that led Rido to corrupt the council and such. i also think there's another dangerous pb out there that didnt die and whose philosophy to command and conquer grew more solid through the years... lol passage of time changes people and its been 10,ooo years since then

I second this. If kaname has currently killed two pureblood families Hio and Hanadagi, with one of them claiming to be a family that is the "protector of pbs" then he definitely started off right by killing off the guardian of pbs. But pbs of what? It would make more sense if it said, "protector of the Kurans" right since they established stuff, but it said protector of the purebloods perhaps this is another faction that in a way will possibly oppose kaname's objectives in the future (which is to eliminate pureblood heads) so his first kill was the guardian. well, in theory anyway.

Right solace, this is the theory, anyway as you say... (but I do not think that is impossible to be also totally true and Kaname trying to eliminate possible dangers that would come from the protector of purebloods that more likely would oppose to his plan since the guardian, would defend the superiority of the purebloods)…that’s what I think.

does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going...

Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…
I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

Spoiler:

About the Hio Clan…so that you do not have to go pages (I never find these pages from so long ago)…

From the fanbook quick points about Shizuka’s parents;

The Hio family has a history of members going bersek, so she was brought up in a cage. She was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. Shizula grew up without love…

So we see that Shizuka’s familly was not angelic, no way. In fact it was considered dangerous (totally bersek, yet the parents give the baby? while they are free as we see now?).

Anyway, since she was locked in confinement right after being born, I tend to think that her parents of course were collaborating with the council and their practices and agreed with them. (Because apparently except for Kurans that DID not wish to hurt the weakest ones, all other purebloods would not consent with the council if not agreeing).

[quote]well so far in vampire knight they have stayed quiet right, during the phase of the school arc, so the dangerous puerbloods back then probably perished but what remained is that corruptive power-thinking that led Rido to corrupt the council and such. i also think there's another dangerous pb out there that didnt die and whose philosophy to command and conquer grew more solid through the years... [quote]

Yes, it’s logical, if you just think of it, Kaname had said that the council will be the first ones to go but also that he shall finish what he had started once but stopped back then because he hesitated.
So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

Sara’s plan perhaps is not that irrelevant to Kaname’s plan and to really fit the plot, it should not be…
Sara aims at being the Queen, aims at having humans as slaves. That means that in a way she represents the council’s ideals (that was also one reason why she elaborated with the council) BUT if other threats from the past have survived (because Kaname in the past hesitated to finish them-limiting its action to his ruling as king) then Sara can awaken them, unite them or summon them and take them as her allies because 10.000 after She takes the risk to create slaves again.
So Kaname moves to kill her allies/the potential dangers first or even the descedants whose ideology would permit them to allign with Sara. Hio for example could be another case whereas as the council fitted their plans and they did not rebel against it, the same could happen now with Sara.
It’s an idea…

juliet wrote:
Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…
I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

Spoiler:

ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? was there any particular reason, aren't seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? what's inside the castle

and why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?? who is Ouri?? so many questions..

juliet wrote: About the Hio Clan…so that you do not have to go pages (I never find these pages from so long ago)…

From the fanbook quick points about Shizuka’s parents;

The Hio family has a history of members going bersek, so she was brought up in a cage. She was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. Shizula grew up without love…

So we see that Shizuka’s familly was not angelic, no way. In fact it was considered dangerous (totally bersek, yet the parents give the baby? while they are free as we see now?).

Anyway, since she was locked in confinement right after being born, I tend to think that her parents of course were collaborating with the council and their practices and agreed with them. (Because apparently except for Kurans that DID not wish to hurt the weakest ones, all other purebloods would not consent with the council if not agreeing).

myaaa thank you
i was about to go into it.. I think I remember now that Shizuka was called the madly blooming princess... lol, I totally missed that

shizuka doesn't seem insane though, she only went berserk when her exhuman lover was assassinated.

so the hio has history of members who go berserk... :bom: another theory could be that (and yes its another theory!!lol) kaname, just like with the Hanadagi being protector of pbs, killed the next one who can be a threat... who's the next one? touma? it seems all the purebloods we've known so far except isaya has history of malice.

juliet wrote:
Yes, it’s logical, if you just think of it, Kaname had said that the council will be the first ones to go but also that he shall finish what he had started once but stopped back then because he hesitated.
So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

it could be... we don't know what happened when he decided to sleep. was everything peaceful? could it be he couldn't handle what was going on presently so he slept it off? was everything prepared before he slept, meaning he was content to leave everyone before his eternal rest?

I think I understand Kaname's viewpoint here.. there are some things that recur over time even if its gone. For example is its in human's nature to destroy and create no matter if the evil ones die, others are born. Then it's also in pureblood's nature to dominate and destroy-something like that. I believe this is what Kaname says that "no matter what you do there are somethings you cant do anything about..." I think he was talking about vampire nature. He also said one time, "coexistence doesn't take place over night. vampires must overcome their nature first.." Here he also talks about nature.

I think its not that he didn't take care of something before he rested, its because he hesitated, his plan is probably to eliminate everyone (vampires) to put a stop to their cyclical nature to devour others in their schemes (for example). And of course a plan that grand will need lots of thought.. so he hesitated... He woke up and was faced with the same wicked nature he dealt with in the past.. I think it all just gradually build up to form his decision to accomplish his original plan.

here is what he said to yagari about killing the council
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-27.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-28.html

he said something about his actions safeguarding the future [for yuki]. It gives more and more confirmation that kaname's plans intend to make everyone start on a cleaner slate.
he is only eliminating the heads of the pb families from what it looks like... if you think about it, he doesn't eliminate all pbs right? he just cuts the command center, the one who leads the family so it ceases to function but he doesn't kill all.. (on the subject, does this mean Sara won't be killed since she's not the head of the family???? noo)

juliet wrote:
Sara aims at being the Queen, aims at having humans as slaves. That means that in a way she represents the council’s ideals (that was also one reason why she elaborated with the council) BUT if other threats from the past have survived (because Kaname in the past hesitated to finish them-limiting its action to his ruling as king) then Sara can awaken them, unite them or summon them and take them as her allies because 10.000 after She takes the risk to create slaves again.
So Kaname moves to kill her allies/the potential dangers first or even the descedants whose ideology would permit them to allign with Sara. Hio for example could be another case whereas as the council fitted their plans and they did not rebel against it, the same could happen now with Sara.
It’s an idea…

she said one time that she collaborates with the council so that she would be in good favor with them
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-12.html

Sara has been kissing asses for the whole time, like how she is doing with the hunters and Yuki but underneath it she has plans to prolong her existence and prevent from feeling suicidal like Ouri, Juri or Haruka. and that is to become queen.

i cant think of her trying for a more grander scheme such as the kidnappings of the toddlers it doesnt seem like something she'd do, she's just content playing with her harem, so I think the other disturbances were caused by another pureblood... perhaps the final boss in vk? the one who can truly stand up to kaname? because sara now is looking to be nothing more than a schemer... and kaname is not too threatened by her. he almost seems relax, an "I've got this under control" manner of dealing with her, which from the way it looks that way, he probably already read her motives and has plans for it... But this other pb.. i wonder.?