Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

First topic message reminder :

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

Right now we're all assuming his motive is a better life for Yuuki, but as you pointed out, killing them all isn't making a perfect world for her. He knows better than anyone how kind, compassionate and righteous a person Yuuki is (saying this from Kaname's pov only, cause I think Yuuki is far from that..), he wouldn't expect her to forgive him or go along with it. There has to be another reason behind all this, a reason so compelling that he's risking living without his love a second time.

Another point I'd like to discuss is that VK doesn't have a lead antagonist. So far, we only had mini bosses, and I doubt Sara is that awesome to be consider the endgame boss. Hino might be paving the way for Kaname to become one considering how the story is heading, mind you, not an evil antagonist, but one regardless, one that has a big purpose to fullfill, whether the actions are right or not.

I think narratively speaking, Kaname would make a better antagonist/endgame boss than Zero. This character from the beginning exudes a mysterious aura, couple with his past and his promise/plan with the hooded woman, it would not be a surprise for him to become one. After all, it will be lame to end VK with Sara. With kaname, it is exciting to see how ppl gonna stop the world's strongest vampire.

loveiszero wrote:Right now we're all assuming his motive is a better life for Yuuki, but as you pointed out, killing them all isn't making a perfect world for her. He knows better than anyone how kind, compassionate and righteous a person Yuuki is (saying this from Kaname's pov only, cause I think Yuuki is far from that..), he wouldn't expect her to forgive him or go along with it. There has to be another reason behind all this, a reason so compelling that he's risking living without his love a second time.

Another point I'd like to discuss is that VK doesn't have a lead antagonist. So far, we only had mini bosses, and I doubt Sara is that awesome to be consider the endgame boss. Hino might be paving the way for Kaname to become one considering how the story is heading, mind you, not an evil antagonist, but one regardless, one that has a big purpose to fullfill, whether the actions are right or not.

I think narratively speaking, Kaname would make a better antagonist/endgame boss than Zero. This character from the beginning exudes a mysterious aura, couple with his past and his promise/plan with the hooded woman, it would not be a surprise for him to become one. After all, it will be lame to end VK with Sara. With kaname, it is exciting to see how ppl gonna stop the world's strongest vampire.

there has to be another reason for what he is doing, yes there has to be.but i wouldnt call him the antagonist . he is the main protagonist without whom the story cant revolve. yeah he is the strongest vampire but he is way too nice a person to be called antagonist.

for that part sara and rido fit the bill easily.

loveiszero wrote:Right now we're all assuming his motive is a better life for Yuuki, but as you pointed out, killing them all isn't making a perfect world for her. He knows better than anyone how kind, compassionate and righteous a person Yuuki is (saying this from Kaname's pov only, cause I think Yuuki is far from that..), he wouldn't expect her to forgive him or go along with it. There has to be another reason behind all this, a reason so compelling that he's risking living without his love a second time.

how would you know Kaname's actions won't make a better place? for one he's the only one creating an impact in vampire knight currently. the rest are sitting down and accusing him while doing nothing more than what they always do. And there's practically NOTHING to indicate ANY REASON behind his actions except he's killing to fulfill his original plan.
and again he's not killing all of them, only the heads of the families. whatever it is he's not done with it yet.
and what sort of antagonist goes around and evacuates the humans around the vicinity? if he is as mindless in his killing he wouldn't mind including them. Surely better antagonists like Sara or Rido wouldn't care. Or what sort of antagonist thanks the one who took his beloved away, so she wouldn't get involved in his plans?
And Sara's not making her move yet but she's clearly an antagonist, I can't imagine Yuki trying to stop her when she's even falling for her bait.

sweetsolace wrote:

loveiszero wrote:Right now we're all assuming his motive is a better life for Yuuki, but as you pointed out, killing them all isn't making a perfect world for her. He knows better than anyone how kind, compassionate and righteous a person Yuuki is (saying this from Kaname's pov only, cause I think Yuuki is far from that..), he wouldn't expect her to forgive him or go along with it. There has to be another reason behind all this, a reason so compelling that he's risking living without his love a second time.

how would you know Kaname's actions won't make a better place? for one he's the only one creating an impact in vampire knight currently. the rest are sitting down and accusing him while doing nothing more than what they always do. And there's practically NOTHING to indicate ANY REASON behind his actions except he's killing to fulfill his original plan.
and again he's not killing all of them, only the heads of the families. whatever it is he's not done with it yet.
and what sort of antagonist goes around and evacuates the humans around the vicinity? if he is as mindless in his killing he wouldn't mind including them. Surely better antagonists like Sara or Rido wouldn't care. Or what sort of antagonist thanks the one who took his beloved away, so she wouldn't get involved in his plans?
And Sara's not making her move yet but she's clearly an antagonist, I can't imagine Yuki trying to stop her when she's even falling for her bait.

Well maybe antagonist is not the right description, but you get the gist, probably tragic hero fits better?. Who knows, he might turn out to be the saddest character of the whole series.
And yes, whatever it is, he's not done, so we don't know the depth of his original plans. My point is Yuuki might not be the only reason to why he's doing what hes doing, hence something else.

loveiszero wrote:And yes, whatever it is, he's not done, so we don't know the depth of his original plans. My point is Yuuki might not be the only reason to why he's doing what hes doing, hence something else.

yuuki i think is a big factor in what he is doing but there is probably something else that has made him act aswell. hino seems to have hinted at it.

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Bloodredhead wrote:

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Remember that Kaname's past was hidden from us and Yuuki also? we never get any answers about what happened afterwards and he went to slumber. Perhaps all this secrency (with his plan) exists because it also concerns a hidden secret plot that has not been revealed yet. I have the idea that we are missing information and these information are about the past that has not been revealed to us yet.

juliet wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Remember that Kaname's past was hidden from us and Yuuki also? we never get any answers about what happened afterwards and he went to slumber. Perhaps all this secrency (with his plan) exists because it also concerns a hidden secret plot that has not been revealed yet. I have the idea that we are missing information and these information are about the past that has not been revealed to us yet.

true we do seem to be missing important information. a secret plot wouldnt suprise me at all, i wonder if all this sara stuff is a smoke screen?

so many questions, so little answers.

juliet wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Remember that Kaname's past was hidden from us and Yuuki also? we never get any answers about what happened afterwards and he went to slumber. Perhaps all this secrency (with his plan) exists because it also concerns a hidden secret plot that has not been revealed yet. I have the idea that we are missing information and these information are about the past that has not been revealed to us yet.

Totally agree!

And now after the last chapter, I'm thinking more strong that the key he gave to Yuuki has something to do with the past that remains sealed for us and for Yuuki too.

We are on Yuuki's mercy here

nina wrote:

juliet wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Remember that Kaname's past was hidden from us and Yuuki also? we never get any answers about what happened afterwards and he went to slumber. Perhaps all this secrency (with his plan) exists because it also concerns a hidden secret plot that has not been revealed yet. I have the idea that we are missing information and these information are about the past that has not been revealed to us yet.

Totally agree!

And now after the last chapter, I'm thinking more strong that the key he gave to Yuuki has something to do with the past that remains sealed for us and for Yuuki too.

We are on Yuuki's mercy here

you could be right nina, that key could unlock something relating with the past we dont know about. whatever the key unlocks i think it must be an object of sorts. maybe a plan written on paper?! yuuki is in need of a good plan at the moment! lol!

please kaname is the best i bet u anything he is doing all this cause he thinks its best for uki but can someone explain to me uki is satesfaid with zeros blood douse that mean he is the one please tell me i am wrong i would love to see her and kaname and there kids

nina wrote:

juliet wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

hmm...kaname did say a hesitation was born in him before, i presume it was before he went into slumber and now he is done with hesitating. so he was going to do something in the past, which didnt include yuuki as a factor, so logically it could be partly that reason again, why he is continueing with his plans. the question is what is it?

Remember that Kaname's past was hidden from us and Yuuki also? we never get any answers about what happened afterwards and he went to slumber. Perhaps all this secrency (with his plan) exists because it also concerns a hidden secret plot that has not been revealed yet. I have the idea that we are missing information and these information are about the past that has not been revealed to us yet.

Totally agree!

And now after the last chapter, I'm thinking more strong that the key he gave to Yuuki has something to do with the past that remains sealed for us and for Yuuki too.

We are on Yuuki's mercy here

she is pretty slow... maybe she will remember about the key after 10 chapters? and then realized she lost it...

anyway i think the key is also the key to reveal the past, or whatever is inside that cabinet drawer.. when will Yuki remember it? and wasn't that key supposed to unlock it in the Kuran mansion? so maybe when she returns there..

bashashim@yahoo.com wrote:please kaname is the best i bet u anything he is doing all this cause he thinks its best for uki but can someone explain to me uki is satesfaid with zeros blood douse that mean he is the one please tell me i am wrong i would love to see her and kaname and there kids

its sort of hard to answer your question. depeneds really which side you see it from.

a vampires thirst can only be overcome with the blood of a loved one. well both zero and kaname are loved ones but loved one can me several things, doesnt necessarily mean lover, its someone who's in your heart and you care about so like a friend or family member can also apply.

yuuki cares about zero and he's a loved one, so his blood would bring her thirst down thus satisfying her. i dont think it means she will end up with him though as it wasnt a romantic bite and i beleive she loves kaname alot more.

i dont know if that helps with your question or not but thats how i see it.

@sweet: lol! if she has lost it bye bye co-existence!

I hope that Kaname is doing this for a reason. A damn, good reason. I really am convinced that he will return to Yuki .. I was really convinced when I saw the solidified rose in resin at Chapter 72, pg 17. I mean, it's like.. he's bringing Yuki a little souvenir. A pretty lame thought but I really convinced myself. Whether I'm wrong or not, Kaname has to come back!

We need to see the missing pieces of Kaname's past . As they are probably the key of his actions now .

The key Yuuki holds has to be a very important thing to decipher the plot in V. K. A good explanation could be the one some posters wrote here about it is keeping a book which narrates the past history near the time Kaname decided to took his slumber . If this is true , when Yuuki get the book , most of our questions will be answered .

The thing I'm intrigued is : if V. K. is a giant chess game . Divided in two matches . ( One arc for each match . ) Kaname is both the Black King and the Black Chess Pieces Chessmaster . Who is the White King and / or the White Pieces Chessmaster ? The one moving the White pieces is the one supposed to be the main antagonist in V. K. For now we got no clue for who he / she is . Only the White Queen is shown yet ( Sara ) for the second match . So I expect a good surprise when the real final boss in V. K. is shown .

Hanyougal , I got a more stupid reason for Kaname to return to Yuuki at the end . To take her to the rose field where the ten - year - blossom roses lives . As he promise her before . And for him to take her there around 8 more years have to pass . so he could not die if he wants to fullfil it .

Kaname's plans must be something more complex than just killing all purebloods. if it's resume only at killing than hino lack imagiantion

kaname "attacked" only awake PB's : hanadagi and hio. if I remember corectly, in hanadagi's casttle were more than one coffin, but kaname did not destroy them.
In hio's case he eliminate just the alive one, not the slumbers ones.
If he wanted just to kill pureblood's, weren't logical to destroy the slumbers ones too

if kaname want to kill purebloods, then why he did not killed touma or sara already? touma present a predisposition to violence, sara is in the same league with rido.

If kaname doesn't want to kill all pureblood, but just some, doesn't make sense to kill isaya, since he is a kind PB.
If kaname want co-existence and change vampires/PB's way of thinking doesn't make sense to kill a PB who is for peace and let alive another one who is violent(touma).

Question: if kaname went to kill isaya, then where is his sword

So many questions and no answers

i really dont get his motives....if he wants to eliminate all pbs then that means that he hat to kill yuki??or he wants to kill them all and leave her alone(cause i see him really strong minded about him not being with yuki after all...)??what are his motives????i wish matsuri could explain us..........and i wish that she will show us more images of his past......i mean how the kuran line continued after he had gone to slumber??did he had children??did he had by any chance any brothers and sisters who continued his name???and is he harukas and juris grandfather????and if not,who are the kuran members and what happened to them??they cant have died....pbs are immortal!!they cant all killed!!!!
so many questions!!!

I've always thought Kaname was a self-centered vampire who only thought f obtainting his own goals and using his Pureblood status to his advantage. I knew that something suspicious was going on with him killing different vampire recently and then suddenly disappearing without saying why. I think that he is downright twisted and selfish is he thinks that killing all of the purebloods in justifiable in any way shape or form. And he also mentioned that he will crush anyone who gets in his way...even Kaien Cross. So he really doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself, does he?! As long as he gets the job done, he's happy with himself. He's even OK with Cross saying he will not return Yuuki to him because " she would only be an obstacle". I knew it, so he really doesn't care about Yuuki?! He just wanted her for himself because well, he thinks she is his posession. And he even admitted he should stop keeping her caged up like a bird, or something along those lines... From the start, he only wanted someone to love, and he chose Yuuki indefinitely because she is the daughter of Kuran and he was born as her older brother. Sure i think he may have cared for her when they were little, but people change. And keep in mind that he is thousands of years old... he may have had this objective in mind for a long time now, killing all purebloods. He himself will never bite a human because he doesn't think it's right...so everyone else must follow suit and he will make them all vanish to see that everyone is doing things his way. I think he only latched onto Yuuki because she is family.. in a way, and there is no one else for him to love...that's his mindset. I didn't want Yuuki to go back to someone like that either and I'm glad someone finally said it! Go Kaien! :3 I hope that he wins against Kaname and foils all his plans... And I hope he tells Yuuki all the cruel things he has said and intended to do. I think that things will not end well for Kaname, and I hope that Yuuki never forgives him for the things he has done. And also i hope Zero kicks his butt! ><

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:I've always thought Kaname was a self-centered vampire who only thought f obtainting his own goals and using his Pureblood status to his advantage. I knew that something suspicious was going on with him killing different vampire recently and then suddenly disappearing without saying why. I think that he is downright twisted and selfish is he thinks that killing all of the purebloods in justifiable in any way shape or form. And he also mentioned that he will crush anyone who gets in his way...even Kaien Cross. So he really doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself, does he?! As long as he gets the job done, he's happy with himself. He's even OK with Cross saying he will not return Yuuki to him because " she would only be an obstacle". I knew it, so he really doesn't care about Yuuki?! He just wanted her for himself because well, he thinks she is his posession. And he even admitted he should stop keeping her caged up like a bird, or something along those lines... From the start, he only wanted someone to love, and he chose Yuuki indefinitely because she is the daughter of Kuran and he was born as her older brother. Sure i think he may have cared for her when they were little, but people change. And keep in mind that he is thousands of years old... he may have had this objective in mind for a long time now, killing all purebloods. He himself will never bite a human because he doesn't think it's right...so everyone else must follow suit and he will make them all vanish to see that everyone is doing things his way. I think he only latched onto Yuuki because she is family.. in a way, and there is no one else for him to love...that's his mindset. I didn't want Yuuki to go back to someone like that either and I'm glad someone finally said it! Go Kaien! :3 I hope that he wins against Kaname and foils all his plans... And I hope he tells Yuuki all the cruel things he has said and intended to do. I think that things will not end well for Kaname, and I hope that Yuuki never forgives him for the things he has done. And also i hope Zero kicks his butt! ><

Sounds to me that you wanted Sara to win by default and become queen. And although it's your opinion, I have to disagree with you. Although Kaname is indeed killing all purebloods with the exception of his fiancee Yuuki, just think about it. What if Kaname didn't kill all purebloods while Sara devours purebloods one by one? If that ever happens, there's absolutely no way that Kaname, Zero, Kaien... or even Yuuki will ever defeat that evil and wicked pureblood.

Evidently, Kaname isn't leaving Yuuki. Instead, he told the chairman that she have already decided on how to live on her own will. Kaname knows in his dark heart that he loves Yuuki.

I know that you don't want Yuuki to be with Kaname, but you should know the hard fact that she is a KURAN... not Cross. And she doesn't mind whether his hands are tainted or not, she still loves him.

I don't think Kaien will defeat Kaname and foil his plans. The only plan that needs to be foiled right now is Sara... not Kaname. You should know the fact of what Sara is doing so I won't waste my breath with details.

Yea I know that Sara's an evil vampire as well. She's turned a bunch of girls into vampires..even though she says it was of their own free will, i still don't think it's right to use them like that, she's basically turned them into her slaves. I never said anything about being on Sara's side. And also she's creating some new blood tablet...? Idk what the significance of that is yet, but it can't be good, I don't trust her. After seeing how vicious she was with Ichijo and basically making him her servant too, I really don't like her. I don't care if he thinks killing everybody is the way to go. Why not just kill Sara?! Then again he needs some solid proof that she's up to no good first.

I'm not convinced that Kaname wants to kill all Purebloods. Or at least, not necessarily.

Rather, I think the key to all this is maybe a desire to stop the bloodlines from continuing? The targets seem to be the head of the families. All of whom happen to be male so far. No male Purebloods? No eligible Purebloods for the females to have children with. (As for the female Purebloods, he may be leaving it to Yuuki to take care of them if they misbehave.)

In his account of the past, Kaname mentions:

The bereaved moved forward together. Bearing a desire for family.

Spoiler:

Kaname's mission from long ago was to kill vampires, specifically bad Purebloods. Artemis and the Bloody Rose drove him into such a frenzy that he could no longer feel emotions. Somehow he snapped out of it because maybe the 'bad' Purebloods were all eliminated and only the 'good' Purebloods remained.

So now we have a scenario where the Purebloods are starting families of their own. Imagine the beginnings of the Vampire Society as we know it today. Purebloods at the top, and the Nobles serving them below. There would be marriages and mistresses as everyone strengthened their alliances and established their bloodlines. The vampire race would start multiplying. They would start believing the idea that they're superior to humans and have no need for any sort of open co-existence. They would create their own superior society … in the shadows.

And Kaname would witness them building this sort of gilded cage around themselves. And yet he hesitates to do anything about it. Maybe because of all the Pureblood babies running around. Maybe he has a family of his own. (Or not. We're still not sure how the Kuran family began.) He's not about to wipe out vampire hierarchy if there's a tiny bit of hope that they might change for the better. Children, after all, are the hope of the future … maybe they could learn to tame their vampire instincts? And move towards some sort of reconciliation with humans?

Heh. But they didn't. Or their natures couldn't, wouldn't allow them. That would be enough to drive someone like him to despair! So Kaname decides to go into slumber. He has no intention of waking from it, but maybe in the far future … maybe then, vampire society would have sorted themselves out. Remember: he has premonitions of future Yuuki. He's seen a young vampire miss whose eyes exudes warmth, love, and sincerity.

But instead, it's the beginning of a nightmare: Rido wakes him up forcefully by having him ingest baby Kaname. (Kaname's statement that Rido's existence was a miscalculation on his part makes some sort of sense in this context. Maybe he didn't take into account that a real monster would be born? I dunno.) Then his 'parents' Haruka and Juri are murdered before his eyes. He witnesses the corruption of vampire society, the evil that lurks in the hearts of vampires, their indecent desire for the blood of Purebloods and human babies.

He realizes his premonitions of Yuuki did not really come from a happy future full of warmth. There is no happy future yet. Not for vampires. Not for humans. Not for Yuuki.

So he proceeds with the plans he made so long ago. The extermination of the Vampire Council is only the beginning. This brings us to the part that has always bothered me in the first arc. Takuma says:

Grandfather … let us together put an end to the Ichijou line.

Spoiler:

Kaname walks away from what would have been a relatively easy battle with a noble. He accepts Takuma's sincerity. And he leaves his best friend to perform what is basically a suicide mission … and put an end to a Noble bloodline. (Unless he somehow knew Sara was on her way to save Takuma. Not likely? )




tl;dr: So Kaname's plan is to stop Purebloods from continuing their bloodlines. This most likely involves killing all Pureblood males, including himself. (This would also weaken Noble bloodlines because there would be no Pureblood males to offer their daughters as mistresses to.) Even if Pureblood females decided to engage in relationships with vampires or humans, no Pureblood children would result.

This theory goes out the window, of course, when Kaname decides to leave Isaya or any other male Purebloods alone.

(I actually have a different theory about why he had to kill Hanadagi and Hiou, but I will try to find an appropriate thread.)

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:I've always thought Kaname was a self-centered vampire who only thought f obtainting his own goals and using his Pureblood status to his advantage. I knew that something suspicious was going on with him killing different vampire recently and then suddenly disappearing without saying why. I think that he is downright twisted and selfish is he thinks that killing all of the purebloods in justifiable in any way shape or form. And he also mentioned that he will crush anyone who gets in his way...even Kaien Cross. So he really doesn't give a damn about anyone but himself, does he?! As long as he gets the job done, he's happy with himself. He's even OK with Cross saying he will not return Yuuki to him because " she would only be an obstacle". I knew it, so he really doesn't care about Yuuki?! He just wanted her for himself because well, he thinks she is his posession. And he even admitted he should stop keeping her caged up like a bird, or something along those lines... From the start, he only wanted someone to love, and he chose Yuuki indefinitely because she is the daughter of Kuran and he was born as her older brother. Sure i think he may have cared for her when they were little, but people change. And keep in mind that he is thousands of years old... he may have had this objective in mind for a long time now, killing all purebloods. He himself will never bite a human because he doesn't think it's right...so everyone else must follow suit and he will make them all vanish to see that everyone is doing things his way. I think he only latched onto Yuuki because she is family.. in a way, and there is no one else for him to love...that's his mindset. I didn't want Yuuki to go back to someone like that either and I'm glad someone finally said it! Go Kaien! :3 I hope that he wins against Kaname and foils all his plans... And I hope he tells Yuuki all the cruel things he has said and intended to do. I think that things will not end well for Kaname, and I hope that Yuuki never forgives him for the things he has done. And also i hope Zero kicks his butt! ><

If kaname would be a selfish / self centered vampire and want to do everything for his happiness, then he should have stayed with yuuki, not leaving her and definily not leaving to fulfill his original plan.
If kaname is thinking only at himself, then he did the wrong decision. the good decission was to stay with yuuki, in their mansion to cuddle and don't give a damn about the rotten society from outside.

Vampire society is rotten. ex: sara who do moves to become quenn (before kaname departure), children are kidnaped by vampires (master unknown, before kaname departure), young females are kidnapped and sold to an auction (master unknown).

But he wasn't a selfish/self centered vampire who thinks only at himself. kaname chose to leave her fiancee and to try to create a world where yuuki and humans are safe. kaname chose this with the price of his happiness.
I think this make him to not be a self centered/ selfish/twisted vampire.

I really don't know what will happen next,Hino sensei is really unpredictable! but one thing for sure,Kaname reaction must be for Yuuki's safety. Poor Kaname,he had to live alone without Yuuki by his side and being hated. He sacrifice a lot for Yuuki's sake

awes0m3 wrote:I'm not convinced that Kaname wants to kill all Purebloods. Or at least, not necessarily.

Rather, I think the key to all this is maybe a desire to stop the bloodlines from continuing? The targets seem to be the head of the families. All of whom happen to be male so far. No male Purebloods? No eligible Purebloods for the females to have children with. (As for the female Purebloods, he may be leaving it to Yuuki to take care of them if they misbehave.)

In his account of the past, Kaname mentions:

The bereaved moved forward together. Bearing a desire for family.

Spoiler:

Kaname's mission from long ago was to kill vampires, specifically bad Purebloods. Artemis and the Bloody Rose drove him into such a frenzy that he could no longer feel emotions. Somehow he snapped out of it because maybe the 'bad' Purebloods were all eliminated and only the 'good' Purebloods remained.

So now we have a scenario where the Purebloods are starting families of their own. Imagine the beginnings of the Vampire Society as we know it today. Purebloods at the top, and the Nobles serving them below. There would be marriages and mistresses as everyone strengthened their alliances and established their bloodlines. The vampire race would start multiplying. They would start believing the idea that they're superior to humans and have no need for any sort of open co-existence. They would create their own superior society … in the shadows.

And Kaname would witness them building this sort of gilded cage around themselves. And yet he hesitates to do anything about it. Maybe because of all the Pureblood babies running around. Maybe he has a family of his own. (Or not. We're still not sure how the Kuran family began.) He's not about to wipe out vampire hierarchy if there's a tiny bit of hope that they might change for the better. Children, after all, are the hope of the future … maybe they could learn to tame their vampire instincts? And move towards some sort of reconciliation with humans?

Heh. But they didn't. Or their natures couldn't, wouldn't allow them. That would be enough to drive someone like him to despair! So Kaname decides to go into slumber. He has no intention of waking from it, but maybe in the far future … maybe then, vampire society would have sorted themselves out. Remember: he has premonitions of future Yuuki. He's seen a young vampire miss whose eyes exudes warmth, love, and sincerity.

But instead, it's the beginning of a nightmare: Rido wakes him up forcefully by having him ingest baby Kaname. (Kaname's statement that Rido's existence was a miscalculation on his part makes some sort of sense in this context. Maybe he didn't take into account that a real monster would be born? I dunno.) Then his 'parents' Haruka and Juri are murdered before his eyes. He witnesses the corruption of vampire society, the evil that lurks in the hearts of vampires, their indecent desire for the blood of Purebloods and human babies.

He realizes his premonitions of Yuuki did not really come from a happy future full of warmth. There is no happy future yet. Not for vampires. Not for humans. Not for Yuuki.

So he proceeds with the plans he made so long ago. The extermination of the Vampire Council is only the beginning. This brings us to the part that has always bothered me in the first arc. Takuma says:

Grandfather … let us together put an end to the Ichijou line.

Spoiler:

Kaname walks away from what would have been a relatively easy battle with a noble. He accepts Takuma's sincerity. And he leaves his best friend to perform what is basically a suicide mission … and put an end to a Noble bloodline. (Unless he somehow knew Sara was on her way to save Takuma. Not likely? )




tl;dr: So Kaname's plan is to stop Purebloods from continuing their bloodlines. This most likely involves killing all Pureblood males, including himself. (This would also weaken Noble bloodlines because there would be no Pureblood males to offer their daughters as mistresses to.) Even if Pureblood females decided to engage in relationships with vampires or humans, no Pureblood children would result.

This theory goes out the window, of course, when Kaname decides to leave Isaya or any other male Purebloods alone.

(I actually have a different theory about why he had to kill Hanadagi and Hiou, but I will try to find an appropriate thread.)

This theory: Gold! That makes so much more sense than most other explanations of Kaname's scheme. Thank you for sharing, and I agree with you!

Akaruisama wrote:I think Kaname is going to kill all of purebloods. It is sad and I undestand why Kaien who belives that they all could live in peace, cannot support him.
Kaname always was fond of humans and he could see cruelty of purebloods. Perhaps, after the murder on the ball he acknowledged the truth that this state must be changed?
It not explain why he left Yuuki, it's impossible he would consider her as enemy of human race. Maybe he want her to awe vampires into obedience after murdering others purebloods?
If it is true, it is naturally that Ruka and Kain doesn't approve his plans. They was teached the respect toward purebloods and think exactly like Aidou-dono that purebloods must live to control the rest of their race.

it said in the books thats hes killing purebloods for yuki, but im not sure why

rayatta wrote:

awes0m3 wrote:I'm not convinced that Kaname wants to kill all Purebloods. Or at least, not necessarily.

Rather, I think the key to all this is maybe a desire to stop the bloodlines from continuing? The targets seem to be the head of the families. All of whom happen to be male so far. No male Purebloods? No eligible Purebloods for the females to have children with. (As for the female Purebloods, he may be leaving it to Yuuki to take care of them if they misbehave.)

In his account of the past, Kaname mentions:

The bereaved moved forward together. Bearing a desire for family.

Spoiler:

Kaname's mission from long ago was to kill vampires, specifically bad Purebloods. Artemis and the Bloody Rose drove him into such a frenzy that he could no longer feel emotions. Somehow he snapped out of it because maybe the 'bad' Purebloods were all eliminated and only the 'good' Purebloods remained.

So now we have a scenario where the Purebloods are starting families of their own. Imagine the beginnings of the Vampire Society as we know it today. Purebloods at the top, and the Nobles serving them below. There would be marriages and mistresses as everyone strengthened their alliances and established their bloodlines. The vampire race would start multiplying. They would start believing the idea that they're superior to humans and have no need for any sort of open co-existence. They would create their own superior society … in the shadows.

And Kaname would witness them building this sort of gilded cage around themselves. And yet he hesitates to do anything about it. Maybe because of all the Pureblood babies running around. Maybe he has a family of his own. (Or not. We're still not sure how the Kuran family began.) He's not about to wipe out vampire hierarchy if there's a tiny bit of hope that they might change for the better. Children, after all, are the hope of the future … maybe they could learn to tame their vampire instincts? And move towards some sort of reconciliation with humans?

Heh. But they didn't. Or their natures couldn't, wouldn't allow them. That would be enough to drive someone like him to despair! So Kaname decides to go into slumber. He has no intention of waking from it, but maybe in the far future … maybe then, vampire society would have sorted themselves out. Remember: he has premonitions of future Yuuki. He's seen a young vampire miss whose eyes exudes warmth, love, and sincerity.

But instead, it's the beginning of a nightmare: Rido wakes him up forcefully by having him ingest baby Kaname. (Kaname's statement that Rido's existence was a miscalculation on his part makes some sort of sense in this context. Maybe he didn't take into account that a real monster would be born? I dunno.) Then his 'parents' Haruka and Juri are murdered before his eyes. He witnesses the corruption of vampire society, the evil that lurks in the hearts of vampires, their indecent desire for the blood of Purebloods and human babies.

He realizes his premonitions of Yuuki did not really come from a happy future full of warmth. There is no happy future yet. Not for vampires. Not for humans. Not for Yuuki.

So he proceeds with the plans he made so long ago. The extermination of the Vampire Council is only the beginning. This brings us to the part that has always bothered me in the first arc. Takuma says:

Grandfather … let us together put an end to the Ichijou line.

Spoiler:

Kaname walks away from what would have been a relatively easy battle with a noble. He accepts Takuma's sincerity. And he leaves his best friend to perform what is basically a suicide mission … and put an end to a Noble bloodline. (Unless he somehow knew Sara was on her way to save Takuma. Not likely? )




tl;dr: So Kaname's plan is to stop Purebloods from continuing their bloodlines. This most likely involves killing all Pureblood males, including himself. (This would also weaken Noble bloodlines because there would be no Pureblood males to offer their daughters as mistresses to.) Even if Pureblood females decided to engage in relationships with vampires or humans, no Pureblood children would result.

This theory goes out the window, of course, when Kaname decides to leave Isaya or any other male Purebloods alone.

(I actually have a different theory about why he had to kill Hanadagi and Hiou, but I will try to find an appropriate thread.)

This theory: Gold! That makes so much more sense than most other explanations of Kaname's scheme. Thank you for sharing, and I agree with you!

i agree too this makes a lot of sense

awes0m3 wrote:I'm not convinced that Kaname wants to kill all Purebloods. Or at least, not necessarily.

Rather, I think the key to all this is maybe a desire to stop the bloodlines from continuing? The targets seem to be the head of the families. All of whom happen to be male so far. No male Purebloods? No eligible Purebloods for the females to have children with. (As for the female Purebloods, he may be leaving it to Yuuki to take care of them if they misbehave.)

In his account of the past, Kaname mentions:

The bereaved moved forward together. Bearing a desire for family.

Spoiler:

Kaname's mission from long ago was to kill vampires, specifically bad Purebloods. Artemis and the Bloody Rose drove him into such a frenzy that he could no longer feel emotions. Somehow he snapped out of it because maybe the 'bad' Purebloods were all eliminated and only the 'good' Purebloods remained.

So now we have a scenario where the Purebloods are starting families of their own. Imagine the beginnings of the Vampire Society as we know it today. Purebloods at the top, and the Nobles serving them below. There would be marriages and mistresses as everyone strengthened their alliances and established their bloodlines. The vampire race would start multiplying. They would start believing the idea that they're superior to humans and have no need for any sort of open co-existence. They would create their own superior society … in the shadows.

And Kaname would witness them building this sort of gilded cage around themselves. And yet he hesitates to do anything about it. Maybe because of all the Pureblood babies running around. Maybe he has a family of his own. (Or not. We're still not sure how the Kuran family began.) He's not about to wipe out vampire hierarchy if there's a tiny bit of hope that they might change for the better. Children, after all, are the hope of the future … maybe they could learn to tame their vampire instincts? And move towards some sort of reconciliation with humans?

Heh. But they didn't. Or their natures couldn't, wouldn't allow them. That would be enough to drive someone like him to despair! So Kaname decides to go into slumber. He has no intention of waking from it, but maybe in the far future … maybe then, vampire society would have sorted themselves out. Remember: he has premonitions of future Yuuki. He's seen a young vampire miss whose eyes exudes warmth, love, and sincerity.

But instead, it's the beginning of a nightmare: Rido wakes him up forcefully by having him ingest baby Kaname. (Kaname's statement that Rido's existence was a miscalculation on his part makes some sort of sense in this context. Maybe he didn't take into account that a real monster would be born? I dunno.) Then his 'parents' Haruka and Juri are murdered before his eyes. He witnesses the corruption of vampire society, the evil that lurks in the hearts of vampires, their indecent desire for the blood of Purebloods and human babies.

He realizes his premonitions of Yuuki did not really come from a happy future full of warmth. There is no happy future yet. Not for vampires. Not for humans. Not for Yuuki.

So he proceeds with the plans he made so long ago. The extermination of the Vampire Council is only the beginning. This brings us to the part that has always bothered me in the first arc. Takuma says:

Grandfather … let us together put an end to the Ichijou line.

Spoiler:

Kaname walks away from what would have been a relatively easy battle with a noble. He accepts Takuma's sincerity. And he leaves his best friend to perform what is basically a suicide mission … and put an end to a Noble bloodline. (Unless he somehow knew Sara was on her way to save Takuma. Not likely? )

tl;dr: So Kaname's plan is to stop Purebloods from continuing their bloodlines. This most likely involves killing all Pureblood males, including himself. (This would also weaken Noble bloodlines because there would be no Pureblood males to offer their daughters as mistresses to.) Even if Pureblood females decided to engage in relationships with vampires or humans, no Pureblood children would result.

This theory goes out the window, of course, when Kaname decides to leave Isaya or any other male Purebloods alone.

(I actually have a different theory about why he had to kill Hanadagi and Hiou, but I will try to find an appropriate thread.)

Nice wording I think you've compiled what we were mostly discussing regarding this before in a nutshell and more.

Either way the idea does not address vampire society's problems in general, most of all Sara's, and only implies the extinction of purebloods.

If pureblood females cannot create more pureblood babies, they cannot create a family > they cannot continue their species, and with only pureblood females left they would eventually stop growing old and either become miserable or find mate in the lower classes of vampires, or possibly with the humans.

This creates a sort of "Queen Bee" symbol literally in the vampire society; nobles would flock to these pureblood females offering their sons to strengthen their genetic pool. And this in a way creates a new form of pureblood in the form of their offspring.

In short, the remaining pureblood females would also, still, be revered as a higher class in the hierarchy. In essence nothing changed and purebloods are still revered.

The "Queen Bee" outcome doesn't match what Kaname said to Nagamichi before he died,
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/32

"Who said purebloods should be revered? You're like bees who can't function without a queen bee.."

Kaname seems to disagree that the lower classes are revering the purebloods. If he is only aiming to stop the bloodline of purebloods AND the implications of purebloods as superior to all, why not just kill the males? why take the risk of repeating it again? As you said, perhaps only the good purebloods remained, but why did Sara as a female pureblood existed to create havoc?

Leaving only pureblood females doesn't make the vampire society a better place. The only certainty is complete renewal of the system.

When Kaname killed the council, it was the first step to his plans, the council's elimination was necessary as a corrupt form of vampire government. When he referred to gilded cage, it was the council abusing power while maintaining control,
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-5/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html
Kaname mainly mentioned about "the conditions of vampires" which has generally degenerated throughout the centuries, based on what he saw and experienced before and after his slumber. In short he was talking in general about all the classes of vampire society and not just one. In a way he was talking about addressing the problems of vampire society by first eliminating the council, so, ergo if his only plan is to kill all pureblood males to stop the bloodline, it only achieves stopping the pureblood race from continuing, which somehow achieves little if the remaining pureblood females also started acting like Sara and starts wrestling over dominance and control over society in the future.

I believe the general problem that Kaname wishes to address is about Purebloods being seen as having more authority over everyone and the vampires' perceptions regarding purebloods. Kaname was generally fed up over the vampires nature to lust and greed over power and destruction it was virtually not making any sense and creating more problems. In a way he was addressing the nature of a vampire, and how he takes to this by eliminating only the heads of pureblood families.