Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

First topic message reminder :

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

juliet wrote:
Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…
I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

Spoiler:

ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? was there any particular reason, aren't seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? what's inside the castle

and why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?? who is Ouri?? so many questions..

juliet wrote: About the Hio Clan…so that you do not have to go pages (I never find these pages from so long ago)…

From the fanbook quick points about Shizuka’s parents;

The Hio family has a history of members going bersek, so she was brought up in a cage. She was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food. Shizula grew up without love…

So we see that Shizuka’s familly was not angelic, no way. In fact it was considered dangerous (totally bersek, yet the parents give the baby? while they are free as we see now?).

Anyway, since she was locked in confinement right after being born, I tend to think that her parents of course were collaborating with the council and their practices and agreed with them. (Because apparently except for Kurans that DID not wish to hurt the weakest ones, all other purebloods would not consent with the council if not agreeing).

myaaa thank you
i was about to go into it.. I think I remember now that Shizuka was called the madly blooming princess... lol, I totally missed that

shizuka doesn't seem insane though, she only went berserk when her exhuman lover was assassinated.

so the hio has history of members who go berserk... :bom: another theory could be that (and yes its another theory!!lol) kaname, just like with the Hanadagi being protector of pbs, killed the next one who can be a threat... who's the next one? touma? it seems all the purebloods we've known so far except isaya has history of malice.

juliet wrote:
Yes, it’s logical, if you just think of it, Kaname had said that the council will be the first ones to go but also that he shall finish what he had started once but stopped back then because he hesitated.
So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

it could be... we don't know what happened when he decided to sleep. was everything peaceful? could it be he couldn't handle what was going on presently so he slept it off? was everything prepared before he slept, meaning he was content to leave everyone before his eternal rest?

I think I understand Kaname's viewpoint here.. there are some things that recur over time even if its gone. For example is its in human's nature to destroy and create no matter if the evil ones die, others are born. Then it's also in pureblood's nature to dominate and destroy-something like that. I believe this is what Kaname says that "no matter what you do there are somethings you cant do anything about..." I think he was talking about vampire nature. He also said one time, "coexistence doesn't take place over night. vampires must overcome their nature first.." Here he also talks about nature.

I think its not that he didn't take care of something before he rested, its because he hesitated, his plan is probably to eliminate everyone (vampires) to put a stop to their cyclical nature to devour others in their schemes (for example). And of course a plan that grand will need lots of thought.. so he hesitated... He woke up and was faced with the same wicked nature he dealt with in the past.. I think it all just gradually build up to form his decision to accomplish his original plan.

here is what he said to yagari about killing the council
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-27.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-47-page-28.html

he said something about his actions safeguarding the future [for yuki]. It gives more and more confirmation that kaname's plans intend to make everyone start on a cleaner slate.
he is only eliminating the heads of the pb families from what it looks like... if you think about it, he doesn't eliminate all pbs right? he just cuts the command center, the one who leads the family so it ceases to function but he doesn't kill all.. (on the subject, does this mean Sara won't be killed since she's not the head of the family???? noo)

juliet wrote:
Sara aims at being the Queen, aims at having humans as slaves. That means that in a way she represents the council’s ideals (that was also one reason why she elaborated with the council) BUT if other threats from the past have survived (because Kaname in the past hesitated to finish them-limiting its action to his ruling as king) then Sara can awaken them, unite them or summon them and take them as her allies because 10.000 after She takes the risk to create slaves again.
So Kaname moves to kill her allies/the potential dangers first or even the descedants whose ideology would permit them to allign with Sara. Hio for example could be another case whereas as the council fitted their plans and they did not rebel against it, the same could happen now with Sara.
It’s an idea…

she said one time that she collaborates with the council so that she would be in good favor with them
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-12.html

Sara has been kissing asses for the whole time, like how she is doing with the hunters and Yuki but underneath it she has plans to prolong her existence and prevent from feeling suicidal like Ouri, Juri or Haruka. and that is to become queen.

i cant think of her trying for a more grander scheme such as the kidnappings of the toddlers it doesnt seem like something she'd do, she's just content playing with her harem, so I think the other disturbances were caused by another pureblood... perhaps the final boss in vk? the one who can truly stand up to kaname? because sara now is looking to be nothing more than a schemer... and kaname is not too threatened by her. he almost seems relax, an "I've got this under control" manner of dealing with her, which from the way it looks that way, he probably already read her motives and has plans for it... But this other pb.. i wonder.?

about the seal, pb's blood is sought after and you have a entire family of pb's sleeping in that castle if I am not mistaken, just a possible reason for the seal.

juliet wrote: "Protector of Purebloods" Hanadagi - is the obvious obstacle I think since he would protect the sacredness of the purebloods, we see Kaname going against the purebloods at this phase.
I believe that Hanadagi were around as ancestors also- even if the certain pureblood that we have here can be younger – the ideology, actions, traditions of each clan are known example the Kurans are pacifists.

About Hanadagi being an ancestor … I have no solid evidence only a reference by Cross …

http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-67-page-27.html

“ … Hanadagi’s family ancestral home…” so why Cross use the word ancestral? Even if he refers on his home still it could be a hint that Hanadagi was indeed an ancestor himself as the head of his clan no?

Now that I’m thinking about it maybe Cross gave us something bigger!
That castle could be the one which the hooded-woman was talking about???
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-19/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

“the castle they’re making their slaves build for them” !!!!???

juliet wrote: I think that’s Hanadagi’s castle at the right bottom panel, judging from the overall acrhitecture and the three towers that are repeated in other pages where hanadagi’s castle is displayed…
Notice that Yuuki talks of a lurking danger of the past, that all the discussion centers around the past…and why is Hanadagi’s castle displayed? Are we supposed to suspect its connection to the past? Probably.

sweetsolace wrote: ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? was there any particular reason, aren't seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? what's inside the castle
and why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?? who is Ouri??

This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!
What you think???

sweetsolace wrote: Also another reason that can hint is hanadagi's knowledge of sara. he seems to be acquaintances with her. hm.

Sweet I think you are referring on this passage …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/25

Now the only way for Hanadagi to know Sara is Sara to be older than 100 years since Hanadagi is sleeping for the past 100 years. Is she so old??? And wants to join in school???

Haha it is possible … we can’t dismiss that, after all I remember Takuma’s sarcastic comments about her age lol.

However what if Hanadagi’s comments had other meaning??
He calls her weak, greedy little girl and he is also quite surprised that she managed to kill Ouri dono … What I mean is that if Hanadagi was an ancestor that could be an explanation for his superiority towards Sara since the powers of the ancestors are superior of the second, third generation of PBs … furthermore if Ouri dono was also an ancestor that could explain his surprise of how she killed him and concludes that probably she must be good at using deception otherwise she couldn’t accomplish to kill him.

Now I know that Hanadagi’s superior tone it could be originate from the age difference which translated into powers difference as well, but we have also Kaname’s plan which is directly related with the ancestors’ era. Plus all the history “lessons” we had about this era bla bla bla … in short the second arc focuses on the past (not only Kaname’s past but in general) so the existence of the ancestors it might be a bridge to connect the past with the present.

sweetsolace wrote: does kaname death list aims to target specific purebloods who are somehow related to the past? or is it just random? I feel like there's a direction somehow that he is going...

juliet wrote: Yes it seems that there are parts connected with the past. Kaname killing randomly that would make him insane. My idea is that Hanadagi had a role more heavy or more important than we are suspecting…there are certain parts that I do not consider radomn at all…

Totally agree with both of you!!!!

Furthermore the ideology of their clans is one element but is it enough to justify their extermination? I mean Kaname can’t kill them only based on a speculation that since they belong in a certain clan that makes them automatically his enemies! Except from the fact that such an act it would be totally out of character, since Kaname isn’t a villain and he isn’t gonna be one lol, another proof is his behavior towards Takuma for example! He trusted him and distinguish him from his grandfather … he didn’t judge him by his last name but by his personality … as an individual!!!! And let’s not forget that the origins can not ensure the development of each individual (<< this goes for both ways of course) … “bright” example is Rido’s case … he was the black sheep of the Kurans lol. Bottom line, Kaname doesn’t kill randomly and blindly neither for revenge or hate!

IMO Hanadagi, Hiou and maybe Ouri it’s possible to were ancestors and the first two of them (Hanadagi and Hiou) to were Kaname’s opponents at the first war lol. Ouri seemed more pacifist and he also attended at Kaname’s ball <<< where Kaname supposed would count his supporters and his enemies … so I don’t know about him.


Another possibility!

What if their connection lays on senate’s era? We also have some hints which could pinpoint at that period and while Kaname was in slumber.

They could be involved with the senate’s schemes at some point. This option doesn’t require for them to be ancestors necessarily and brings them closer to the present time.

Let’s see the clues …

> For Hiou we don’t know how many years was sleeping but Hanadagi was active before 100 years<< which automatically places him during the senate’s rule.

> As very well sweetsolace and juliet pointed out there is Shizuka’s case which is directly related with the senate’s plotting. She was imprisoned by the senate and also don’t forget she was Rido’s fiancée. This matchmaking was obviously for “political” reasons, since Shizuka wasn’t in love with Rido and he as we know was in love with Juuri. Furthermore Rido was used by the senate and vise versa. He was the one who changed the hunters list to achieve the extermination of Shizuka’s lover (if not something bigger that we don’t know yet) and that’s how a new bloody circle began. Behind of all this tragedies was the senate. So the Hiou’s most likely cooperated with the senate. Shizuka and partly Rido were the known victims of the senate’s rule.

> Also there are Kaname’s words while he was killing Shizuka …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2130-26/vampire-knight/chapter-20.html

“ I will surely destroy it … the one who ruined the destiny of the PBs” << probably he was meaning Rido and the senate (basing on the development of the plot) but there is another updated reference on that era …

> Aidou dono words … “something that happened before Shisuka went missing”

http://www.mangareader.net/104-57815-35/vampire-knight/chapter-65.html

… which means before Shizuka kill Zero’s family! Obviously he is referring on the senate’s era cuz Kaname witnessed/participated on that as a child I suppose.


Now to conclude … we have and a third option which could combine the above two theories…

Hanadagi could be an enemy from the ancestors’ era and either if he is himself an ancestor or not, as the head and the protector of that “significant” castle should be wiped off!
And Hiou if he isn’t an ancestor he could be related with the senate’s era and Aidou’s dono words! lol

Just thought I would throw this out there.
ancestral home = a place where the previous generations of your family lived (aka your ancesters).
FE I am german so germany is my ancestral home, you guys might be over thinking the matter lol

rumland wrote:Just thought I would throw this out there.
ancestral home = a place where the previous generations of your family lived (aka your ancesters).
FE I am german so germany is my ancestral home, you guys might be over thinking the matter lol

Very quickly got to go..yes but what if the previous generations were vampires? Purebloods? you know still living there?

Then it would still be your ancestral home, only now you will have a old creepy grandfather liveing there, every one has that 1 creepy g-dad.

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

Ah now you got a negative from me, LOL so you might not wonder who did it......in the sense that you are putting it, you do not want to me to go through the twins relationship with Zero visiting graveyards and speaking to his brother is this the man you want us to give our little girl? But i am not going into that since obviously since I read it I have to accept that point too...

I disagree with Zero's decision and ways (his hate or his negative attitude) but not with the script...here you don't like the script! or the story since it sounds so wrong.. So why are you reading it? to buzz others with how "wrong" it sounds?

Do not think that this is an agressive post towards you, it's an honest question; you don't like it, you judge fiction to sound wrong, do not spoil the fun and the entertaiment of the people who like it. Respect their own positive attitude and approach, is it so hard not to infest it with negativism and criticism that after all offers nothing but bad mood?

Ah I see... there does seem to be something strange with the castle... why does it have a seal? Was there any particular reason, aren' t seals suppose to keep offenders away? or to protect something inside? What' s inside the castle…

And why is hanadagi castle accessible through ouri's power?

Perphas because Ouri had sealed it?
Ouri’s power unlocked the castle’s seal for Sara. Sara being a younger vampire did not posses that power as it is evident, yet that means that Ouri and Hanadagi are both from the older generation with higher superior powers, the seal proves it.

about the seal, pb's blood is sought after and you have a entire family of pb's sleeping in that castle if I am not mistaken, just a possible reason for the seal.

But where is his family? It is possible to be still in slumber and not to be referred? I have the impression that Hanadagi is alone in there.

I think its not that he didn't take care of something before he rested, its because he hesitated, his plan is probably to eliminate everyone (vampires) to put a stop to their cyclical nature to devour others in their schemes (for example). And of course a plan that grand will need lots of thought.. so he hesitated... He woke up and was faced with the same wicked nature he dealt with in the past.. I think it all just gradually build up to form his decision to accomplish his original plan.

Yes I second that, exactly my thoughts. He hesitated to eliminate or to cut the problem to its root as the ancestor lady had said due to his own more soft nature. When he entered slumber he had left the world at the hands of his descendants, bearing a little hope (as Rido says) as he was sleeping in that coffin that the world around him and the vicious vampire nature would be changed. (I think that’s what he waited resting in that coffin).

But again his hopes are shattered the moment he has to give up Yuuki and the family that truly raised Kaname as a true son and gave him the love that he never had in the past. I believe that now Kaname does not want to see any more victims losing their lives as they wait for the long –term peace. So his action to eliminate the dangers from the roots, gets again into action, especially from the moment that he realizes that Yuuki also won’t deny her pacifism legacy and will actively try to participate thus risk to lose her life, getting caught in the purebloods games.

I think his plan is twofold; one to eliminate the real dangers of the past and the present and to promote Yuuki’s role in a position that will make her a worthy leader of the vampire society since she is the one that can lead without basing her position in fear but in bonds of friendship and respect due to her soft nature.

if you think about it, he doesn't eliminate all pbs right? he just cuts the command center, the one who leads the family so it ceases to function but he doesn't kill all.. (on the subject, does this mean Sara won't be killed since she's not the head of the family???? noo)

For now yes, he is taking down to Heads. So the clues until now show that he addresses his plans to the older and more powerful members of the vampire society.

i cant think of her trying for a more grander scheme such as the kidnappings of the toddlers it doesnt seem like something she'd do, she's just content playing with her harem, so I think the other disturbances were caused by another pureblood... perhaps the final boss in vk? the one who can truly stand up to kaname? because sara now is looking to be nothing more than a schemer... and kaname is not too threatened by her. he almost seems relax, an "I've got this under control" manner of dealing with her, which from the way it looks that way, he probably already read her motives and has plans for it... But this other pb.. i wonder.?

I wonder too but under the circumstances there is not a clan we have not met;
-Hanadagi (dead)
-Hio (dead?)
-Touma (blown away? He was that old it seems)
-Isaya ( do not remember the other name, alive and possible an ally since Yori protected his area when he was sleeping)
-Ouri (possible ally since he appeared in the ball supporting the pacifism but dead)
Who am I forgetting?

“This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!

Ou..:cheers:Nina, that’s a good one… there are very strong references to that castle…and it is highlighted all through the latest chapters…and also in irrelevant pages that we have shown. It could be the ancient castle of the first era when the evil started and the slaves were marching towards it. We never saw the face of the pureblood who had gathered all these slaves. I am really wondering about the title “Protector of the Purebloods”. What if this title is coming from that era?
When the purebloods needed to be protected from the hunters= protected the pureblood’s existence / Kaname’s –human’s opponent…the title can be Hanadagi’s clan type of legacy like pacifism is for the Kurans.

Of course there is the question how and why Hanadagi’s clan managed to escape the Kuran’s scythe if their sins were so heavy? I guess they could have retreated, locked up in their castle and refrain from everything. And the Kurans could have let it be as kaname was hesitating to go all the way.

He calls her weak, greedy little girl and he is also quite surprised that she managed to kill Ouri dono … What I mean is that if Hanadagi was an ancestor that could be an explanation for his superiority towards Sara since the powers of the ancestors are superior of the second, third generation of PBs … furthermore if Ouri dono was also an ancestor that could explain his surprise of how she killed him and concludes that probably she must be good at using deception otherwise she couldn’t accomplish to kill him.

M..Ouri was killed because a part of him had gotten tired and in a way allowed to Sara to put an end to his long living. Ouri was definitely old and I do expect Hanadagi also since Sara has the same idea for Hanadagi that she had for Ouri “you are probably bored” she had said entering his tomb.

And let’s not forget that the origins can not ensure the development of each individual (<< this goes for both ways of course) … “bright” example is Rido’s case … he was the black sheep of the Kurans lol. Bottom line, Kaname doesn’t kill randomly and blindly neither for revenge or hate!

I agree but there seems to be a kind of a common ideology and scopes shared among family members; Hio’s are going bersek, Kurans fight for co-existence…we are starting to see some kind of patters there. No that does not justify a killing, it’s just an observation…

IMO Hanadagi, Hiou and maybe Ouri it’s possible to were ancestors and the first two of them (Hanadagi and Hiou) to were Kaname’s opponents at the first war lol. Ouri seemed more pacifist and he also attended at Kaname’s ball <<< where Kaname supposed would count his supporters and his enemies … so I don’t know about him.

Not just the first…they were fighting over centuries..so yes apparently this fight is everlasting and ongoing…now it has changed a bit; instead to be an open war, we see more politics and schemes getting in the way, instead of marching hypnotized slaves and open fires… I still get the feeling that Hanadagi’s is from the first era (quite close to the period that Kaname decided to enter the slumber), Hio could be a far more recent wound with their own tolerance in forgiving the council’s way…

Hanadagi could be an enemy from the ancestors’ era and either if he is himself an ancestor or not, as the head and the protector of that “significant” castle should be wiped off!
And Hiou if he isn’t an ancestor he could be related with the senate’s era and Aidou’s dono words! lol

Very good work Nina, you are so observant and I do believe the same. For the time being I think we have covered many aspects of the script and the possible versions. Now want more!!

juliet wrote:
I wonder too but under the circumstances there is not a clan we have not met;
-Hanadagi (dead)
-Hio (dead?)
-Touma (blown away? He was that old it seems)
-Isaya ( do not remember the other name, alive and possible an ally since Yori protected his area when he was sleeping)
-Ouri (possible ally since he appeared in the ball supporting the pacifism but dead)
Who am I forgetting?

you forgot Shirabuki! (haha... she is hated this much.. poor girl)

here's the clue to number of remaining purebloods, the ones that yuki know anyway
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-28.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-29.html

the ones under the council's control were 19. but kaname said if the inactive sleeping ones were included the number would reach 33. Perhaps he's talking of the number of all purebloods existing, instead of number of clans (33 clans sounds too many).

So... since the council was destroyed, then not only level E's were loose?? but also these 19 purebloods??? now... there's your possible culprit for the sudden rise in crime rate... possibly, quite possibly, somewhere in these 19 purebloods, 2 of which are dead (Rido, Shizuka) its quite high chance they're out taking advantage of their freedom... perhaps one of them is responsible for the toddler kidnappings?

speaking of purebloods and clans, Kaname also says there that there are less [clans] now than there was back then... since pbs cant easily die (except if they want to) then they must've died back during the war, during kaname's reign, hence the decrease in pureblood clans...remember juliet you were saying Kaname could've allowed the bad ones to run free when he slept, however i dont think so, the purebloods left were placed in control of the senate (who did this, and when, i dont know.) but they're probably the problematic ones...and the ones who remained uninvolved were left alone.

nina wrote: “This^^!!! If Hanadagi’s castle is the one which hooded-woman was talking about then that could explain Cross reference as an “ancestral home” thus and was protected by a shield!!!! <<< A very important castle for the protectors of the PBs >>> possibly the opponents of Kaname!

And to stretch it further … if the above hypothesis is correct that means the specific castle could be “a source of evil power” so … what if Kaname is currently in that mansion and uses the volcano eruption (something so huge) to destroy not only the building but the surrounded area as well???? << uproot the root of the evil ????

Aaaaa I think that maybe we have something here!!!

well hanadagi was not the only pb who has a castle , Touma has too and perhaps also Hio, Shirabuki and Isaya (though its more like a mansion in his case).

that said im curious about the castle that the slaves were building in the past... perhaps thats what became kaname's castle? there must be something that happened to it after the war...

but here anyway says that after the war, the survivors went to create families
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-64-page-26.html

i dont get how the pbs existence can be erased from history though....maybe vampires decided to hide themselves from mankind from that time onwards, and that's what started the legend and division of VK world from outside human world who knew nothing of vampires? they separated themselves and create families... the ancestor hunters did the same and went living on their own, as they can't have been of use during the monarchy that much since they came to service after monarchy when senate was created and they had to collaborate with them

I agree but there seems to be a kind of a common ideology and scopes shared among family members; Hio’s are going bersek, Kurans fight for co-existence…we are starting to see some kind of patters there. No that does not justify a killing, it’s just an observation…

yes also add
Hanadagi- protector of pbs who seals their castle
Touma- ageless brats looking like lolita, easily pissed
Hio- berserker family, possibly has asian influences due to clothing styles and manner
Shirabuki- drama actors possibly has western influences due to Sara's name
Shoutou- the neutral ones
Ouri- charity workers, generous to the point of giving a life for a fiancee

a title for everyone~

There are 7 pureblood vampire families remaining at the present in V. K . ( The same as noble families with royal rights at Meru Puri. )

They are :

1- Kuran ( the one Yuuki and Kaname are part )

2 - Shirabuki ( Sara's )

3- Shouto ( Isaya )

4 - Hio ( Shizuka )

5 - Ouri ( Sara's fiancee )

6 - Hanadagi ( the one with a castle with a barrier )

7 - Touma ( kid mad hatter one )

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

Kaname told Yuuki when she was born , there were 33 pureblood vampires alive . ( 34 in total if Yuuki was included ) . Nineteen ( 19 ) were under Senate vigilance . The rest ( 15 if Yuuki included ) don't . Probable most of the above were in a slumber . We know during that time Haruka , Juuri , Kaname and Yuuki weren't involved with the Senate . Kaname passed to being a Vampire Senate ward after Haruka and Juuri died .

How many pureblood vampire remains ?

From a total of 34 pureblood vampires ( including Yuuki ) that existed when Yuuki was born . These had died :

1- Haruka Kuran ( Killed by Rido . )

2 - Juuri Kuran ( Self - killed for the spell to make Yuuki human .

3- Shizuka Hio ( Killed by Kaname. With a little help from Zero . )

4 - Ouri ( Killed by Sara . )

5 - Hanadagi ( Killed by Kaname . )

6 - Hio's family head ( Killed by Kaname . )

7- Rido Kuran ( Killed by Zero and Yuuki . This one could be considered alive . But no physical body for now . As he is bound with Kaname . )

So we have 34 - 7 = 27 vampire purebloods alive . ( 28 if counting Rido as alive. )

We have see for now 12 ( maybe 13 if the girl in shadows beside Touma is his sister ) of all 34 purebloods who were alive at the moment Yuuki was born .

We have see :

1- 5 Kurans ( Haruka , Juuri , Rido , Kaname and Yuuki)

2- 2 Hios ( Shizuka and Hio's head of family )

3 - 1 Ouri

4 - 1 Hanadagi

5 - 1 Shirabiki ( Sara )

6 - 1 Shouto ( Isaya )

7 - 1 Touma ( 2 if the shadow girl is a Touma also )

Total 12 ( 13 if the Touma girl is included )

During the past . Prior to the pureblood vampire war . Pureblood numbers probably were over the thousand . Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves . To keep the pureblood numbers small .

Imagine if there are 1000 purebloods alive . If only half drank ( and turned ) a human per week . During a year ( 52 x 500 ) = 26,000 humans became vampire . If 100 years passed , at least 2,600,000 humans are turned vampire . This is only a conservative number . Humans have to notice their diminishing numbers . Specially in a time as before the pureblood war ( 10,000 years ago in V. K. ) . When a natural catastrophe ( climate change ) make humankind to almost extintion . This implies human population was smaller than the present one .

A more extreme scenario : 1000 purebloods drink and turn human / killed one human per day . In a year , 1000 x 356 = 356,000 humans became vampires / died . In a ten year interval 10 x 365,000 = 3,650,000 humans became vampires / died . In a 100 year interval 100 x 365,000 = 36,500,000 humans died / became vampires . One thousand pureblood vampires could almost extinguish the human population of 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in less than 500 years interval .

I imagine vampire population ( all Levels ) is supposed to be keep small . Probably no more than a few thousand . Maybe no more that a hundred thousand in total . Most vampires don't kill humans for food nor play with them . Only drink some blood . Leave the human alive ; but a little anemic . But a huge vampire population would make some logistic problems . To hide their existance to the general human public . Vampire hunters appears to be relative few in quantity . Maybe some thousand . Probably around 10,000 .

juliet wrote:

The mansion is the kurans ancestral home and the whole time they had an old creepy grand dad sleeping there, till the crazy uncle woke him up to gain his powers, but the grandpa said no to that, then decided he wanted to marry the grand daughter... lol I am sorry it just sounds so wrong when put that way lol

Ah now you got a negative from me, LOL so you might not wonder who did it......in the sense that you are putting it, you do not want to me to go through the twins relationship with Zero visiting graveyards and speaking to his brother is this the man you want us to give our little girl? But i am not going into that since obviously since I read it I have to accept that point too...

I disagree with Zero's decision and ways (his hate or his negative attitude) but not with the script...here you don't like the script! or the story since it sounds so wrong.. So why are you reading it? to buzz others with how "wrong" it sounds?

Do not think that this is an agressive post towards you, it's an honest question; you don't like it, you judge fiction to sound wrong, do not spoil the fun and the entertaiment of the people who like it. Respect their own positive attitude and approach, is it so hard not to infest it with negativism and criticism that after all offers nothing but bad mood?

Indeed, Party Pooper.

However, it is interesting to hear viewpoints form people who actually do not really like the story,. (yet they keep on reading it so something must be interesting) (probably drooling over Kaname and Zero ;) )

mariangie wrote:There are 7 pureblood vampire families remaining at the present in V. K . ( The same as noble families with royal rights at Meru Puri. )

They are :

1- Kuran ( the one Yuuki and Kaname are part )

2 - Shirabuki ( Sara's )

3- Shouto ( Isaya )

4 - Hio ( Shizuka )

5 - Ouri ( Sara's fiancee )

6 - Hanadagi ( the one with a castle with a barrier )

7 - Touma ( kid mad hatter one )

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

Kaname told Yuuki when she was born , there were 33 pureblood vampires alive . ( 34 in total if Yuuki was included ) . Nineteen ( 19 ) were under Senate vigilance . The rest ( 15 if Yuuki included ) don't . Probable most of the above were in a slumber . We know during that time Haruka , Juuri , Kaname and Yuuki weren't involved with the Senate . Kaname passed to being a Vampire Senate ward after Haruka and Juuri died .

How many pureblood vampire remains ?

From a total of 34 pureblood vampires ( including Yuuki ) that existed when Yuuki was born . These had died :

1- Haruka Kuran ( Killed by Rido . )

2 - Juuri Kuran ( Self - killed for the spell to make Yuuki human .

3- Shizuka Hio ( Killed by Kaname. With a little help from Zero . )

4 - Ouri ( Killed by Sara . )

5 - Hanadagi ( Killed by Kaname . )

6 - Hio's family head ( Killed by Kaname . )

7- Rido Kuran ( Killed by Zero and Yuuki . This one could be considered alive . But no physical body for now . As he is bound with Kaname . )

So we have 34 - 7 = 27 vampire purebloods alive . ( 28 if counting Rido as alive. )

We have see for now 12 ( maybe 13 if the girl in shadows beside Touma is his sister ) of all 34 purebloods who were alive at the moment Yuuki was born .

We have see :

1- 5 Kurans ( Haruka , Juuri , Rido , Kaname and Yuuki)

2- 2 Hios ( Shizuka and Hio's head of family )

3 - 1 Ouri

4 - 1 Hanadagi

5 - 1 Shirabiki ( Sara )

6 - 1 Shouto ( Isaya )

7 - 1 Touma ( 2 if the shadow girl is a Touma also )

Total 12 ( 13 if the Touma girl is included )

During the past . Prior to the pureblood vampire war . Pureblood numbers probably were over the thousand . Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves . To keep the pureblood numbers small .

Imagine if there are 1000 purebloods alive . If only half drank ( and turned ) a human per week . During a year ( 52 x 500 ) = 26,000 humans became vampire . If 100 years passed , at least 2,600,000 humans are turned vampire . This is only a conservative number . Humans have to notice their diminishing numbers . Specially in a time as before the pureblood war ( 10,000 years ago in V. K. ) . When a natural catastrophe ( climate change ) make humankind to almost extintion . This implies human population was smaller than the present one .

A more extreme scenario : 1000 purebloods drink and turn human / killed one human per day . In a year , 1000 x 356 = 356,000 humans became vampires / died . In a ten year interval 10 x 365,000 = 3,650,000 humans became vampires / died . In a 100 year interval 100 x 365,000 = 36,500,000 humans died / became vampires . One thousand pureblood vampires could almost extinguish the human population of 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in less than 500 years interval .

I imagine vampire population ( all Levels ) is supposed to be keep small . Probably no more than a few thousand . Maybe no more that a hundred thousand in total . Most vampires don't kill humans for food nor play with them . Only drink some blood . Leave the human alive ; but a little anemic . But a huge vampire population would make some logistic problems . To hide their existance to the general human public . Vampire hunters appears to be relative few in quantity . Maybe some thousand . Probably around 10,000 .

Cute numbers, although I do not really think we should get stuck on the numbers for this story, Hino never seems to focus on anything but strategy, romace, and tragedy eh?
So,..
There might be more PB, there might even be Less, we do not really know, did they every say even, that in those families there is only 1 pb left alive? Like, did they really say it, or did they only hint it ;) hihi*

Go Vampire Society

mariangie wrote:T

Interesting to notice all purebloods family names have flowers / trees in their Kanji . Ex. Kuran has the Kanji for orchid ( see their seal / emblem ) . Hio has the one for cherry blossons .

It's very interesting what you wrote here. I always thought the name is getting from kurai-it means dark. It fits to him, even if it is not so good for Yuuki and Yuri. So it can be, Hino wants that is sounds similar

sweetsolace wrote: well hanadagi was not the only pb who has a castle , Touma has too and perhaps also Hio, Shirabuki and Isaya (though its more like a mansion in his case).

that said im curious about the castle that the slaves were building in the past... perhaps thats what became kaname's castle? there must be something that happened to it after the war...

Yes of course you’re right … all of them having from a humble mansion … poor guys living in poverty hahaha.

However Hanadagi’s castle was the only one which is spotlighted in many scenes, even in panels where there wasn’t a specific reference to Hanadagi or his clan, or his castle … and as juliet said …

juliet wrote: there are very strong references to that castle…and it is highlighted all through the latest chapters…and also in irrelevant pages that we have shown. It could be the ancient castle of the first era when the evil started and the slaves were marching towards it. We never saw the face of the pureblood who had gathered all these slaves. I am really wondering about the title “Protector of the Purebloods”. What if this title is coming from that era?
When the purebloods needed to be protected from the hunters= protected the pureblood’s existence / Kaname’s –human’s opponent…the title can be Hanadagi’s clan type of legacy like pacifism is for the Kurans.

… and in my opinion the reference of the hooded-lady in that ancient castle was a bit out of the blue … I mean what purpose was serving?

… the face of that PB huh? I thought about it too … the opponents of Kaname didn’t have a leader as well? And with that thought in mind … maybe we have only his back … ???

http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-31/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html

… about his title “the protector of the PBs” … that was my point >>> he protected the PBs from the ones who fought them aka the hunters+ Kaname!

Now I know is a far fetched theory to be Hanadagi’s castle the one which was built from the slaves but either way I think that this castle is important … I searched for the displays of that castle …

> First introduction …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-18/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… the sleeping castle deep in the gorge …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-19/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… except from the fact that this castle has also a name (which I know it could be had named in that way cuz it’s owner is sleeping there lol), Ruka also commenting about the location and we also have a panoramic view … All in all Hino seems like she emphasizes on this castle …

> Then again when Yuuki see through Kaname’s blood his great grief …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… it’s a bit irrelevant with the content … so could have anything to do with Kaname’s despair or loss???

> Another one …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-32/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html

… “there is something dark lurking under the death of Ouri sama” >> now we know how Ouri’s murder connected with Hanadagi’s castle (which is also displayed in the bottom panel again) and what was probably behind Yuuki’s words “dark lurking”, but why such a “protection” for a “plain” castle if it has no special importance as a building or if the owner was just a “plain” PB?

> The icy shield …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/18

> And another one reference on the name of the castle by Sara … the “castle of dreams” … http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/20

Also Hanadagi’s castle has a domical part, like a tower on the frontage whereas Kurans mansion has a different architectural design …

here the frontage of the Kurans mansion …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-22/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html

… and here the exterior of the building that Kaname is right now …




… the scan isn’t very clear but still it doesn’t seem like the exterior of the Kurans mansion … there is an upper part like a tower and if it is a side aspect of the building and not the frontage, it resembles with Hanadagi’s castle if we look at it from the side …






However the landscape is quite different … so I can’t be sure … (???)

Bottom line is that Hino has used many panels to display a “plain” castle and is a bit odd if the owner of the castle was just a plain PB who his extermination was so “easy” and with not much importance/implications … in short I think we might see more about Hanadagi’s role in the history and maybe his castle …

you forgot Shirabuki! (haha... she is hated this much.. poor girl)

here's the clue to number of remaining purebloods, the ones that yuki know anyway
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-28.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-56-page-29.html

Haha, she is dead already that’s why…who is she again? thanks for the pages…
19 before the birth of Yuuki, 33 with the ones that were away (can he mean in slumber?)

speaking of purebloods and clans, Kaname also says there that there are less [clans] now than there was back then... since pbs cant easily die (except if they want to) then they must've died back during the war, during kaname's reign, hence the decrease in pureblood clans...
remember juliet you were saying Kaname could've allowed the bad ones to run free when he slept, however i dont think so, the purebloods left were placed in control of the senate (who did this, and when, i dont know.) but they're probably the problematic ones...and the ones who remained uninvolved were left alone.

No, I did not say that, if it sounded that way, my bad..what I meant is that back them obviously Kaname went in slumber hesitating to give a final end to the existence of the ones that he should have.
Eitherwise, it’s obvious he would not have to go on with his plan now…
Why he did not moved on?
He hesitated because they retreated or they surrendered or promised to change to avoid certain death…

So he believes that he has limited the problem and goes to slumber leaving either his descendants or the council in charge…that’s what I meant or I want to believe, but the ways of the vampires have not change thousands of years later, neither their ambitions to turn humans into slaves seeing them as food (Asato, Sara). Now imagine Kaname’s disappointment all over nothing…
At least that’s what I believe that happened.

Now since Kaname had been in slumber apparently the amount the purebloods must have been decreased either by the Kurans or by the hunters which makes me want to ask;
What happened to the grandfather or Yuuri’s father? And their mates of course. Kurans are the only ones with the anti-vampire power. So they cannot be just eliminated in the same way they can eliminate other purebloods who may turn against them. This part is also vague right now.

Ouri- charity workers, generous to the point of giving a life for a fiancee…

Haha….that Ouri was more than charity worker he was a stupidity sample walking at balls- letting Sara to kill him- that would be for good? What was he thinking? LOL

@Maria wonderful post. So there are still many purebloods out here left to see, if Hino wants to use them, of course she can and one of them (from any clan) can be behind the kidnapping of children.

Most purebloods died at the war . Most killed by Kaname and / or the new vampire hunter organization . Somehow only 6 clans beside Kuran were spared . Maybe they make some kind of treaty to not hurt humans. Nor make then slaves .To keep the pureblood numbers small .

This is another version as the clans spared could have resorted into some kind of retreat or agreement (if they were against Kaname at the past). Is it possible though that the agreements were not kept? So, back to zero.

@Νina, I just love your posts because it sums up all the pages where we have a straight reference to Hanadagi’s castle…and especially in and between scenes that the castle is not supposed to be relevant…
I just add it in spoiler for a faster glance...

Spoiler:

A sense of loss?

So why is this castle important and pictured multiple times and out of logical context? The castle is it supposed to be connected with an evil lurking?
Notice then how it is twice shown in relation to Kuran’s discussion about the past (mainly)…one with Kaname grieving and Yuuki asking "How it is possible that you are mine" the action in the castle interfears and one where Kaname says that these were in the past...and we are shown Hanadagi's castle again..without a continuation...the next page shows just the hunters...

Spoiler:

Why was this all about, for a scene where Sara takes Hanadagi’s heart?

Many panels and anticipation wasted over nothing.

Yet with Ouri, when his death becomes even more important since he became the reason that pushed Yuuki to take Artemis and declare her intentions, the vampire was not even introduced to us before. his first and last scene at the ball (in a flashback).

Very strange…

@ About the castle and the lava that's coming; Nina it does seem quite familiar the exterior outline specially since the middle part with the columns is higher and all the building has that square geometry ( I think). It can not be Hio’s as Hio’s were reported to have a mausoleum and Kaname was seen to exit from there, so it can be possible if seen from a different angle. From Kaname’s window though the trees are quite close. But could the difference be due to the lava that has divided the land in two and melts, flats things around? can't be sure.

If this is not Hanadagi's, does that mean that Kaname could have moved (apart from the Hio's that we saw last chapter) on with a new pureblood?

juliet wrote:Haha, she is dead already that’s why…who is she again?

well her family still alive what if she has sisters!?

juliet wrote:No, I did not say that, if it sounded that way, my bad..what I meant is that back them obviously Kaname went in slumber hesitating to give a final end to the existence of the ones that he should have.

you said this a page back:

juliet wrote:So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

that was in response to it.

juliet wrote:Haha….that Ouri was more than charity worker he was a stupidity sample walking at balls- letting Sara to kill him- that would be for good? What was he thinking? LOL

well Ouri also wanted to die as he didn't hesitate when he was about to be killed... although his generosity may come from being a charity worker. I think it was deliberate

juliet wrote:So why is this castle important and pictured multiple times and out of logical context? The castle is it supposed to be connected with an evil lurking?

come now... the castle was depicted twice, thrice? lol... IMO, doesn't make it so relevant... except for the seal spell. lol Kuran mansion was also depicted in the same manner

juliet wrote:Notice then how it is twice shown in relation to Kuran’s discussion about the past (mainly)…one with Kaname grieving and Yuuki asking "How it is possible that you are mine" the action in the castle interfears and one where Kaname says that these were in the past...and we are shown Hanadagi's castle again..without a continuation...the next page shows just the hunters...

it seems Hanadagi has something to do with his past, see when a flashback of the past appears its always connected with thoughts of despair or is related to it. this is the only thing im sure of for now..

nina wrote:However the landscape is quite different … so I can’t be sure … (???)

yes... I think it's different too... Hanadagi's castles sits under a place that looks like a ravine, with rock formations jutting around it. The mansion overlooks the ocean and the grounds around it is clear, its at the top of the hill. The Hanadagi place is at the bottom.

well her family still alive what if she has sisters!?

She should have thought about leaving them alone...


you said this a page back:

juliet wrote:So a portion of vampires, clans, ideologies that should have been demolished, being a danger for the humans were not demolished after all? This is what I am thinking right now. He let them be.
But now they are rising again.

that was in response to it.

Yes, I got it that this confused you, thus I provided the explanation why I believe that Kaname did not move on completely erasing the threats of that time (they might retreated, agreed to behave or fall in slumber and promised to comply with the new rules).

I do not believe that Kaname would leave chaos or would abandon the role that this woman had left him with - but somewhere it is obvious that back then he hesitated to go all the way...and perhaps that's also a reason why he feels bad and apologizes to Yuuki here;

About the weakness and the so many mean vampires...

Spoiler:

sweetsolace wrote:come now... the castle was depicted twice, thrice? lol... IMO, doesn't make it so relevant... except for the seal spell. lol Kuran mansion was also depicted in the same manner

it seems Hanadagi has something to do with his past, see when a flashback of the past appears its always connected with thoughts of despair or is related to it. this is the only thing im sure of for now..

Hanadagi and the castle are one and the same; meaning it's not Hanadagi depicted there but the castle. What can be their significance or relevelance that bonds with the past I wonder...

Anyway we will see, I am thinking that Hanadagi's role can not be that limited...and since their is no future for him...Hino has also to explain the importance of his death along with his title "Protector of the purebloods"..

yes... I think it's different too... Hanadagi's castles sits under a place that looks like a ravine, with rock formations jutting around it. The mansion overlooks the ocean and the grounds around it is clear, its at the top of the hill. The Hanadagi place is at the bottom.

It's probably not Hanadagi's, but then whose is it?
If it was Hanadagi's that would mean completely change of the landscape...lol...

@ Juliet I took the liberty to quote here a passage from your post which was posted in another thread … https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t724p10-is-yuuki-kuran-a-pawn-in-sara-s-game#12149

My answer fits here better so … I hope you don’t mind

juliet wrote: The fact that sets all reels in action seems to be Hanadagi’s murder, then Kaname states it’s time to leave…he chooses that moment when Sara attacks the Hanadagi castle to set his plan in action > thus abandon his position in the leadership> leave that position for Yuuki that tries to stand up to the Hunter’s expectation and to the nobles doubt and to represent the Kuran’s legacy.

So it’s quite strange that Hanadagi’s murder leads to such an event…we are missing the lost dots there….

First of all we are missing, why Hanadagi!? And what Sara has gained from his heart, aside of the power which all of the PBs posses??? >>> cuz … was it, an easy target by being in slumber??? I don’t think so, since she got into an extra trouble to kill Ouri in order to be able to pass Hanadagi’s icy-shield. Also as we saw recently, there was at least one more PB in slumber … the head of the Hiou’s clan. Ergo it can’t be a random choice.
Furthermore, Kaname was monitoring Hanagagi’s castle, prior the ball where Sara killed Ouri.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-19/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

I mean that, Ouri’s murder, it could be an indication for Sara’s next move, cuz I guess if Sara knew about Hanadagi’s icy-shield and what she should do to break it, then I suppose Kaname would knew as well, and his murder would be given away Sara’s plan. Ergo, it would be more logical to monitor Hanadagi’s castle after Ouri’s murder … but no!
So how and why Kaname expected a move towards Hanadagi???? And again I come to the beginning … why Hanadagi? The only I could think of is Hanadagi’s special power/charisma as a PB. Kaname knew this info and figured out that Sara would aim for him??? Or he was monitoring him for his own reasons?

Another question which seems to have also the hunters as well … Why Kaname let Sara to proceed with her plan?
1. Kaname most likely had figured out, that Sara was behind Ouri’s murder but he didn’t do anything to expose her.
2. He knew that she was “naughty” by turning girls into “slaves”, but still he was sitting back and “waited”. Doing that, was raising suspicions towards himself. As a result were, the hunters suspecting him as Sara’s ally, and Aidou-dono questioning why he doesn’t stop Sara.

Seems like Sara’s doings served him up to a point … and I think that point was Hanadagi …

So I’m thinking … maybe Hanadagi was his original target (part of his original plan?) and he waited Sara to break that shield and then wiping him off. I’m guessing that the difficulty was to “trespass” the shield (>> Ouri’s power which now possessed by Sara) and not that he needed Sara to do the half job for him, viz take his heart out and weakening him. He could do it easily with his anti-vampire sword since Hanadagi was also in slumber.

Is that why he was letting Sara to move freely all along? Probably … if the gain was greater than the loss … he could afford to be a suspect and he could deal with Sara afterwards if he had to. After all as we saw he had to do another move meanwhile >> Hiou’s head.

So it could be that Sara’s attack to Hanadagi; set the reels in motion for his “original plan” as you said juliet???? I think it makes sense.

But if so, another question rises … why he let her to take the heart and he didn’t stepped in, right after the shield was destroyed? Could it be cuz in the long run Sara will expose her intentions more openly?
Also is likely that it was more important to process to the next target than deal with Sara at that moment? I don’t know … maybe we miss another piece of the puzzle here.

Furthermore I think that Sara wasn’t included into his original plan, cuz if this plan was a concept he had as an ancestor, but for an unknown reason chose the slumber rather to proceed with it … then he couldn’t have known Sara from back then, since Sara probably isn’t so old.

So her actions seem to be the turning point … the reason to stop hesitate anymore and proceed with his plan. The time was running out after Ouri’s murder. Is like a mirror of the 1st arc … he was expecting for Rido’s come back, but he was also hoping/wishing for the opposite…

When Seiren informed him for Rido’s awakening says … “I see … it would have been nice if he had slept on forever…”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2155-18/vampire-knight/chapter-29.html

@ Nina, as always you make good observations, its weird; why would Kaname wait for Hanadagi in order to go and fullfil his plan? that's a key point there that we are missing.

Why is Hanadagi's awakening of so much importancy that Kaname rushes out?

It's not Sara, Sara's intrusion wakes up Hanadagi...it's Hanadagi's awakening as a fact that in reality sets the reels in motion.

We do not know anything about Hanadagi, apart from the fact that he is considered the protector of purebloods and the fact that they did not wish to participate in the current politics of the vampire society.

Could he probably pose a danger for anyone? like Rido that you mentioned earlier... Until Hino decides to shed some light there we are out of the blue with Kaname's intentions other than the very obvious ones; to wipe out the remaining pureblood heads, the males specifically.

I am very down with Kaname's plan...he seems to risk it all to achieve what? the reformation of the vampire society?

Spoiler:

Now to get back to the part with Sara and Hanadagi's castle that we at least now.

I think that Kaname remained silent until Hanadagi's awakening. He suspected that Sara would break the seal and move on with her plan, after Sara had taken Ouri's powers. You are right that Kaname should have known about Ouri's special ability, here Sara knew it.

So he waits to see what will happen with that aspect, will she use the power to surpass the shield, if she did that, that means Hanadagi is awaken, it's time to get on with his plan. So when she breaks in, he must move, it's his call, his time. Why?

What drives me nuts here is the fact that Kaname instantly moves and kills Hanadagi. He waits for no introductions...if Sara took what she took and did what she did, I agree it's irrelevant, other than making a damage there and awakening Hanadagi, she has no other importancy.

very good nina. I didn't see that before. It all make sense now, Hanadagi's death is the turning point, the decisive factor where Kaname start to move.

chapter 52 - Kaname was already monitoring Hanadagi's castle thru Ruka and Kain in chapter 52. By that time, two things were confirmed: Hanadagi's guardian girl was still there and healthy, and there were no movements seen. This means Sara did not begin her move yet.

Kaname then organized the "Party" to introduce Yuki to the Vampire World and deliberately sent out an invite to Sara and Takuma... He knew Takuma was staying with Sara but didn't say anything. How did he know where Takuma lived?

*Kaname must have known that Sara kidnapped Takuma after his fight with ichijou and is now leeching information from him..
This means he knows Sara is up to something and is out to get him. This must be the reason why Kaname is strict on keeping Yuki inside the house, and not to let anyone in, as he still doesn't know what she could be planning.
And it seems like Kaname could have predicted that Ouri was prone to being killed by Sara, who has that personality, the latter only wanting an opportunity to do this. So Kaname probably set up the party to confirm this suspicion.. I'm guessing here.

Chapter 54- Kaname had allowed Sara free in chapter 54 when he suspected her of killing Ouri, note that he was already thinking she was up to something when he asked Seiren to watch over Ouri's room. So he was already thinking ahead here.
Perhaps by this time he already knew what she would do? That she will eventually grab an opportunity to take Ouri's power to access the castle? So if I were thinking in Kaname's mind, if I knew Sara planned to take Hanadagi I would let her do it first, then kill Hanadagi later. Again its like juliet said long ago, it seems Kaname and Sara's plans match, the difference is Kaname knew this and Sara doesn't... or does she?

chapter 57 Kaname then prepares Yuki for whats coming next. He knew Sara has begun to move by killing Ouri, so he leaves Artemis to Yuki.

chapter 58 Sara makes the next step in her plans and visits the all girls school to create her harem source. Someone anonymous informs the hunters, then Kaito and Zero were dispatched to the school right when Sara is leaving. But they couldnt do anything

chapter 60 Kaname is assaulted by his contradictions as Rido whispers in his ear.
Then he decides to tell Yuki his past.

chapter 65 Sara completes her harem set and proceeds to her next plan: the blood tablets. She visits the president of the pharmaceuticals... Later on, a hunter outside that pharmacy building suddenly knows what's going on and says to the messenger boy "go tell the association about this". Again, like juliet previously observed, how the hell did that hunter-san know what's happening inside that building?? and what did he order to tell the association about?? (to "keep quiet and pretend nothing's happening when sara comes over ok!! last time zero didn't catch her, so this time once she's inside we can trap her in the act! muaha" OK that was a laugh, but hey that makes sense right... why in the world are they QUIET about it? most of all KAIEN? you cant trust those who wear eyeglasses and he wears one !! LOL! ok but seriously...it fits)
and WHO is watching over Sara and informs the hunters every time she makes the next step on her plans?? right?? Kaname? orTakuma as his undercover agent?
So it seems that nothing goes unnoticed... because everytime she makes a new step it is informed in the association... but they're not doing anything...

Chapter 65 Kaname starts drinking glasses with blood tablets on them. later on he also drinks another glass. It seems like he is expecting something... and there's the bloodstained floor on Yuki's room.

Chapter 66 Kain and Ruka informs there was movement in the hanadagi castle. It was time to move. Kaname says his goodbye to Yuki, with promises to come back and do her wishes... he leaves the key to her.

Cahpter 67 Sara rips off Hanadagi's heart and disappears. Kaname sees that everything is going according to plan: Sara did the job for him, entered the castle and stole Hanadagi's heart.
Kaname steps in, taps Aido-dono's shoulder as if to say (I'll handle this, dont worry) and stabs Hanadagi. Then Aido-dono's death (which is mystery to me, still... hmm)

chapter 68 Yuki insists on going after Kaname then Kaien slaps some sense to her, not noting that Yuki just grew some wings on her back and hit his face with it. Nothing unusual, to be expected perhaps? He says he has to detain her... coincidence?

chapter 69 Kaien is vague in questioning her about Kaname, (note how his eyeglasses are shaded ) then says its her responsibility as Kuran to continue his works... Yuki then decides to form the NC

chapter 70 Yuki forms the NC under the watch of the association. Kaien specifically assigns Zero to be with her. Takuma receives an invite to be part of the NC and Sara decides to go too... was the invite a coincidence? who sent it, was it really Yuki? Sara would not know about the NC without that invitation
but since she was uninvited she went to beg for her invitation in the hunter's association..

chapter 71 the NC is created... Kaname kills the Hio head in the next part of his plan... Sara goes to the hunter's association (and who else greets her but Hunter-san--as if he was waiting for her) and then begs that Kaname will kill her next... she must have known the rumors and used it to her advantage... note that the hunter-san here allowed her to get in...

chapter 72 Kaname starts the lava flow going to cover the mansion... whose mansion is it? he says it has something to do with climate change.. Sara gets inside the association and when she tells Kaien about seeing Kaname, Kaien says nothing, he looks like he's more worried about Yuki's reaction. Sara then gets free lodging inside the academy/association. Zero gets hungry. Sara notices

chapter 73 Sara takes advantage and wants a hunter's hand and tells Zero. Maria stops her. bla bla. Yuki bites Zero. The culminating act.

---

nina wrote:Is that why he was letting Sara to move freely all along? Probably …
if the gain was greater than the loss … he could afford to be a suspect
and he could deal with Sara afterwards if he had to. After all as we
saw he had to do another move meanwhile >> Hiou’s head.

yes I think another reason he could afford to be a suspect was because it also can't change the fact that he will be a criminal once he starts his original plans (which was to kill pureblood heads) So in a way Kaname is using Sara's plans, and Sara is thinking that she is using Kaname's actions to serve her plans

nina wrote:
But if so, another question rises … why he let her to take the heart
and he didn’t stepped in, right after the shield was destroyed? Could
it be cuz in the long run Sara will expose her intentions more openly?
Also
is likely that it was more important to process to the next target than
deal with Sara at that moment? I don’t know … maybe we miss another
piece of the puzzle here.

it could be he knows he will kill sara in the end, so he allows her to take the heart so it would save him the trouble... meh but that sounds lame though.. yes im with you that part seems vague. for now

juliet wrote:
I am very down with Kaname's plan...he seems to risk it all to achieve what? the reformation of the vampire society?

omg you have no idea, everytime i look at him my heart aches.. i mean he just looks SO SAD!!
He looks like an abandoned puppy that wants to be taken home...

juliet wrote:
I think that Kaname remained silent until Hanadagi's awakening. He
suspected that Sara would break the seal and move on with her plan,
after Sara had taken Ouri's powers. You are right that Kaname should
have known about Ouri's special ability, here Sara knew it.

So he
waits to see what will happen with that aspect, will she use the power
to surpass the shield, if she did that, that means Hanadagi is awaken,
it's time to get on with his plan. So when she breaks in, he must move,
it's his call, his time. Why?

yes thats what i think too. that part is shady

What drives me nuts here is the fact that Kaname instantly moves
and kills Hanadagi. He waits for no introductions...if Sara took what
she took and did what she did, I agree it's irrelevant, other than
making a damage there and awakening Hanadagi, she has no other
importancy.

i think kaname waited until sara took the heart and fled. or maybe he was too late. but i wouldnt vouch for him being late..
because he tapped aido-dono's shoulder before stabbing hanadagi, as if to say he was going to handle that. and then he explained to aido-dono a bit about purebloods...

Why was Kaname taking blood tablets when he had Yuuki to take blood from? Especially after he bit her so messy (her neck and arm). Also, right before he made his exit, Yuuki commented that he had seemed to be craving her blood lately....

hmmm

Rose.Petals wrote:Why was Kaname taking blood tablets when he had Yuuki to take blood from? Especially after he bit her so messy (her neck and arm). Also, right before he made his exit, Yuuki commented that he had seemed to be craving her blood lately....

hmmm

are you talking about the topic or something else? hmm

sweetsolace wrote:

Chapter 65 Kaname starts drinking glasses with blood tablets on them. later on he also drinks another glass. It seems like he is expecting something... and there's the bloodstained floor on Yuki's room.

I was thinking/typing out loud in response to this. Sorry for the confusion.

Rose.Petals wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:

Chapter 65 Kaname starts drinking glasses with blood tablets on them. later on he also drinks another glass. It seems like he is expecting something... and there's the bloodstained floor on Yuki's room.

I was thinking/typing out loud in response to this. Sorry for the confusion.

I don't know either it was speculated he did that because he couldnt take yuki's blood while she was sleeping and after she woke up... the blood tablets were substitutes. but what's odd is, if this is the case he could've ask for her blood, yuki doesn't mind at all (like you said she told him, "take the only blood you love..." ) so there's another reason why he won't take her blood. ..

Juli, Sweet thank you both! You made me think harder hahaha.

So I thought another approach to explore some questions and try to connect as many pieces of the puzzle as possible … please bear with me haha …

I think Kaname was waiting and maybe “pushed” Sara to make her move towards Hanadagi in order to set his plan in action. So the questions here are … what “aid” Sara has offered without knowing ofc, and HOW Kaname “ensure” Sara’s participation??? Cuz is like if Sara didn’t awaken Hana, his original plan couldn’t start!

If I could make an analogy with the first arc or a mirror since it seems that Hino is using that element … maybe Sara is like Shizuka’s case and Hanadagi/Hiou are like Rido.

What I mean … Shizuka had a personal agenda (mainly revenge and gain power), like Sara seems to have currently. But Shizuka didn’t represent a huge threat cuz I think from what we have seen thus far Kaname could deal with her, alone << I guess the same applies for Sara.

However Shizuka’s actions created a domino of events with the final result to be Zero’s freedom and boosting >>> ultra necessity for the ultimate battle with Rido << which btw was an expected threat … Kaname knew that one day he’ll had to deal with him.

So the question here is … what if Shizuka didn’t have played her role in the history; how Rido could be dealt? Thinking of that, Kaname’s wording >> “I gather all the pieces that you needed here” (in the academy) it takes a bit different meaning … the creation of the NC served multiple reasons (co-existence bla bla), but also lured Shizuka from her hide-hole and that drove to Zero’s “preparation” … in short to be ready for Rido IF he would return as he was afraid.

Analogy:
Sara seems to play Shizuka’s role now … she is “preparing” the stage … she is dropping the first piece from the domino … She’s using Ouri’s power to break the shield and awakes Hana <<< that’s the help probably Kaname needed.
So how Kaname could have known that Sara will play her role and she’ll break Hanadagi’s icy-shield and awoke him???

My thought is that the role of the NC, now is replaced from the ball where Kaname presented Yuuki … the princess of the vampires. The revelation of Yuuki’s existance could have spoiled Sara’s plan to be the Queen??? I think it has … Sara maybe had in mind that she could be the Queen if she become Kaname’s wife (we saw how she approached Kaname in the first ball 1st arc, and how Yuuki felt jealous of her … Takuma’s “kidnap” in order to gather info for Kaname). So after Yuuki’s appearance, in a way Sara was “lured” to find another way to reach her goal since the “throne” was already filled >>> gain more power to eliminate Yuuki and Kaname, since now she couldn’t be his wife >>> awakes Hanadagi <<< She bit the bait!

So Sara played/fulfilled her role into Kaname’s chess game … and the road was open …

Also if the hypothesis that the ball >>>Yuuki’s début >>> revelation of the existence of Kuran’s princess was the “first push”, is accurate, then Yuuki’s encryption for a year, takes also another meaning >>> why she should be a secret? >>> because her existence would fire up new conflicts … maybe bigger than what we can now imagine (I mean not only Sara’s attack).

So everything takes place … she needed time to accept who she was and be prepared for what will come >>> Kaname’s insistence to use her fangs (< as acceptance of her nature), plus her reinforcement through his blood/memories for the time she will be alone and take the “leadership”.

Kaname also said that he needed time to set the conditions for her début. Except from calming down the uproar which senate’s wiped off created, and sign a new contract with the hunters, could have done something more??? What if he made a secret deal with Cross for the time he would be off??? I’m super speculating here, but also Cross’s actions (with Yuuki, NC etc) seem like serving Kaname >>>

1. Cross was heading where; when Yuuki “hijacked” their car … this little “coincidence” placed Cross in the right place on the right time …
2. He did what ever he could to stop Yuuki for going after Kaname … even slapping and arresting her!
3. With a little push, almost guidance from Cross, Yuuki took the role of the leader.
4. Synchronously kept her occupied by permitting the re-opening of the NC and delaying her wish to find Kaname << allowing him to proceed with his plan undistracted and maybe knowing that Yuuki is in good hands. ( >> another mirror with the 1st arc? … Kaname entrusted Yuuki for 10 years into Cross’s hands … is impossible to have done it again???)

Furthermore Kaname’s contradictions may have a deeper meaning as well. Keeping her for himself; aka never reveal her existence? <<< If he could do that, maybe it wouldn’t be necessary to proceed with his original plan. Somehow seems that the apocalypse of Yuuki’s existence is directly affined with Kaname’s plan >>> if Yuuki would be unveiled then his path was one-way. So maybe after all, his hesitation/contradictions had nothing to do with selfishness or possessiveness as he is been accused multiple times *cough*. And as we suspected Kaname took his decision to actualize his original plan, after the “conversation” with Rido.

There is something about Rido that we still miss … what he did to be ostracized from the clan!??? From his puzzler wording can we assume that he knows what drove Kaname into despair and slumber? … my gut feeling is that Rido was involved in the incident that drove Kaname in despair (probably the loss of his wife) and that was the reason to be erased from the family. Everything ties … the core of his torture towards Kaname revolves around his contradictions/fears which concerns his love interest viz Yuuki … the reason of his banishment is still unknown, despite the fact that his role supposedly is over. So I think it make sense, the reason to be a secret is cuz it’s related with another secret >> Kaname’s grief>>loss>>identity of his wife.
Also note this … Rido was Shizuka’s fiancé >> connection with Hiou’s clan … an engagement probably for political reasons which right now we don’t know the implications but could be the missing piece of why Kaname killed also the head of the Hiou’s clan after Hanadagi? Also … Rido became a mad man … could his mother was a female from Hiou’s family who have heredity in madness? << This could also explain why Rido was engaged with Shizuka and not with Juri as firstborn <<< Shizuka could was his half sister thus and the engagement.

Also … remember Aidou-dono’s words … the most sinful crime in the history of PBs, before Shizuka Hiou went missing! << another reference to Hiou’s family.

Which was the most sinful crime? <<< I think this crime it might connects all the pieces together … Hanadagi, Hiou and maybe Rido >>>


Analogy Rido-Hanadagi/Hiou:

- In the 1st arc everything was orchestrated for the ultimate danger viz Rido, who was coming from the past and he was aiming for Yuuki. Seems like in the 2nd arc also everything that happened were a preparation for Hanadagi’s and maybe Hiou’s elimination hence and Kaname was leaving Sara to move freely.

- Rido was “neutralized” when the game started but Kaname knew that one day will pose a threat. So could it be something similar with Hana? I think is possible cuz Hanadagi was also “neutralized” by being in slumber but his awakening would pose a new threat. How Kaname could know that? Probably from the past … remember the scene where Kaname is grieving over a shattered mirror >>> there is depicted Hanadagi’s castle! << on surface totally irrelevant … but I think Hanadagi is coming from the past and his role had to do with Kaname’s grief/loss.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

So every one of the ultimate villains seems to have connection with the past:
- Rido maybe was involved with Kaname’s loss and that’s why he ostracized
- Hiou had connection with Rido and now we have also Aidou-dono’s reference.
- Hanadagi seems he also coming from the past since currently was in slumber.

So my idea is that Aidou-dono’s wording about the most sinful crime in the history of PBs could be the “murder” of the first Queen and Kaname’s wife. A conspiracy where were involved Rido, Hanadagi and Hiou??? I think such a title matches with the murder of the Queen of the vampires …
Then Kaname went into slumber, the monarchy was demolished and the senate start ruling.

Observations:

> Yuuki’s birth should be kept as a secret.

> When her existence it became known Rido was aiming specifically for her an attack which drove to Haruka’s and Juri’s death in order to protect her existence.

> Rido’s reappearance brought the “big bang” that Yuuki was a PB and not a human after all … and on top of that the Kuran princess!!!

> Yuuki’s revelation as the princess into vampires’ society set in motion a new circle of conflicts …

Interpretations:

Based on the above observations can’t stop thinking if we should expect a new apocalypse for Yuuki when Kaname’s reasons for killing Hana and Hiou will unveiled … hints >> Yuuki’s butterflies’ wings, the resin rose, the mysterious key … I think there are things that we don’t know about Yuuki lol.

Cuz seems that everything revolves around Yuuki … so IMO Kaname’s original plan is about Yuuki’s protection …
The co-existence is a general idea which Kaname believed in, and served … his past says so without doubt …
Now seem like it’s served through Yuuki’s protection cuz probably will come to fruition through her! Ergo Kaname’s original plan creates the shield around her in order none threat older or newer, would stop her from actualize a true and long-lived co-existence.
Kaname knew what path she will follow so he opens the road for her by wiping off every threat … Yuuki’s existence it’s not important only for him or for the people who love her, but probably is the key for the co-existence <<< this is something which can explain and justify all the efforts and actions for her protection … from her parents to Kaname currently.

He doesn’t want the past to repeat itself …

PS. @ Juliet if nothing from my above babbling comes true, please would you write a nice and touching fic like you know???

interesting idea there nina.. though there are many mirrored events in VK and I won't be surprised if this is another one of them.

nina wrote:
I think Kaname was waiting and maybe “pushed” Sara to make her move towards Hanadagi in order to set his plan in action. So the questions here are … what “aid” Sara has offered without knowing ofc, and HOW Kaname “ensure” Sara’s participation??? Cuz is like if Sara didn’t awaken Hana, his original plan couldn’t start!

I think Kaname knew Sara had plans to be queen the moment he found out (presumably) that Takuma was kidnapped by Sara after he killed his grandfather before the start of the second arc.
I suspect this since at the ball when Kaname sent invitations to Takuma he knew his address (and it was the same address where Sara lives) so he did know something but he didn't say anything. Takuma too refuses to say or see him in person at the ball.
/
EDIT
Kaname also told Shiki and Rima that Takuma was fine and there was no need to search for him
http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-28/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html

so Kaname knows that Takuma lives with Sara, but he knows he's fine and he told others not to search for him...
on the other hand Takuma doesn't say the reason why he wouldn't meet with Kaname in person at the ball!
its obvious if you tie the incidents..

I think the probability they're working together is very high or even likely.
/
The question is IF they have secret communication with each other and if so the question is how.
now for Sara. how and what made Kaname think that their plans are similar (which was to kill hanadagi) at that point is the question.
Like someone mentioned before among the purebloods the ones who remain that could possibly be a threat to Kuran or vampire society can be counted so just by narrowing it down Sara can be one of them.
So if Kaname found out Sara had ulterior motives spared for him by kidnapping Takuma then he could've thought about it over the year that followed through these preparations:
-enforcing that Yuki remain at home and be tutored by Aido - we can see he is not letting Sara's threat get in the way of her priorities as a pureblood and he's already acting on his role as parental figure who will usher Yuki to the new world as soon as is possible
-teaching Yuki how to feed using her fangs
-meetings with the hunters and other members of the board so that he's away most of the time- he is setting the grounds to establish the new treaty
-setting up the ball - not only to introduce Yuki and give her additional social boost points in vampire society but also to confirm the suspicion that Sara is up to something and it fits his plans

the ball, I believe, was part formality, part symbol of Kuran's influence that will be based on the number of vampires who attend it and part farce (as Zero said). It was a cover to reveal Sara's true intentions. That ball was organized by Kaname so he was in control of the invitations, who will come and who will manage. He announced it over his meeting with the hunters, making sure they will watch over it. There everything is in place, and all the pawns available for Sara's use. The ball was like killing 3 birds with one stone. 1. to usher Yuki as new pureblood, 2. as an assurance to the hunters that the Kurans still have the power and capability to rule, perhaps also a preparation for Yuki's next step after kaname leaves her 3. to confirm Sara's suspicion that she's up to something.

So all Kaname need to do was to send Sara and Ouri invitations, as well as the other purebloods. He may or may not have monitored the other rooms, but one thing is for sure, he had Seiren watched over Ouri's guest room. So in the event something happened to him, Kaname smelled Sara's fresh smell of blood and that confirmed it.
Kaname then began to move and in the meantime continued to educate Yuki by giving her the initiative to take artemis and do what she wants with it. Again, this means she asserting leadership roles and developing qualities of a leader.

now we confirm that Kaname had Ruka and Kain watch over the Hanadagi castle for movements.
while it was suspected that it was Takuma who keeps informing the hunter's association about Sara's movements.

So if suspicion is true then Kaname and Takuma's actions are directly related and this may be because they are collaborating secretly.

It all falls into place that eventually Sara made her move to kill hanadagi without even glancing back after she made the two initial steps to her plans: get the pharmaceutical president under her control, and get her harem. She is clearly planning for dominance over society with this actions and only time will tell when it will reach a groundbreaking conclusion.

now she only takes hanadagi's heart but cannot kill him. Here she is surprise when he wokes up (or it looks that way to me) and she did not expect that she will have to kill him. so she flees.
I think Kaname killing Ouri had to do with two things: ouri had already controlled aido-dono to give him blood, which would be troublesome if it happened, and the other one is to complete Sara's actions OR he has his own reasons
I think since Sara did not expect Hanadagi to wake up hence she fled. if this was an unexpected action for her then that means it was a hole in kaname's plans so he had a back up plan which was to finish hanadagi himself. I think. That could explain why he looks like he's standing on the background watching the events unfold before he actually participated, to see if Sara can do the entire thing. But she didn't so kaname had to finish him. He killed him after she was well off and gone from the picture. And then he killed Aido-dono who was witness to all this, or so it looks like.

Notice the fact that each time Sara makes a move it seems like there's a conspiracy moving along with her that creates the illusion she is achieving it without anyone's suspicion. Or is it? She thinks she's doing everything perfectly and not arousing suspicion, but what if that part was staged as well? Like how Kaname stages this?

So if everything is staged to make it appear she is winning then it will continue that way... the question is, when will Sara realize that she's being set up? or is she..?

PS. @ Juliet if nothing from my above babbling comes true, please would you write a nice and touching fic like you know???

oh yes I'm sure julied would. maybe another smut fic.

now juliet... did you read that? now you have to make TWO fanfics if my prediction fails too. fufu... then you won't be so bored during your time..