Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

First topic message reminder :

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

interesting idea there nina.. though there are many mirrored events in VK and I won't be surprised if this is another one of them.

nina wrote:
I think Kaname was waiting and maybe “pushed” Sara to make her move towards Hanadagi in order to set his plan in action. So the questions here are … what “aid” Sara has offered without knowing ofc, and HOW Kaname “ensure” Sara’s participation??? Cuz is like if Sara didn’t awaken Hana, his original plan couldn’t start!

I think Kaname knew Sara had plans to be queen the moment he found out (presumably) that Takuma was kidnapped by Sara after he killed his grandfather before the start of the second arc.
I suspect this since at the ball when Kaname sent invitations to Takuma he knew his address (and it was the same address where Sara lives) so he did know something but he didn't say anything. Takuma too refuses to say or see him in person at the ball.
/
EDIT
Kaname also told Shiki and Rima that Takuma was fine and there was no need to search for him
http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-28/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html

so Kaname knows that Takuma lives with Sara, but he knows he's fine and he told others not to search for him...
on the other hand Takuma doesn't say the reason why he wouldn't meet with Kaname in person at the ball!
its obvious if you tie the incidents..

I think the probability they're working together is very high or even likely.
/
The question is IF they have secret communication with each other and if so the question is how.
now for Sara. how and what made Kaname think that their plans are similar (which was to kill hanadagi) at that point is the question.
Like someone mentioned before among the purebloods the ones who remain that could possibly be a threat to Kuran or vampire society can be counted so just by narrowing it down Sara can be one of them.
So if Kaname found out Sara had ulterior motives spared for him by kidnapping Takuma then he could've thought about it over the year that followed through these preparations:
-enforcing that Yuki remain at home and be tutored by Aido - we can see he is not letting Sara's threat get in the way of her priorities as a pureblood and he's already acting on his role as parental figure who will usher Yuki to the new world as soon as is possible
-teaching Yuki how to feed using her fangs
-meetings with the hunters and other members of the board so that he's away most of the time- he is setting the grounds to establish the new treaty
-setting up the ball - not only to introduce Yuki and give her additional social boost points in vampire society but also to confirm the suspicion that Sara is up to something and it fits his plans

the ball, I believe, was part formality, part symbol of Kuran's influence that will be based on the number of vampires who attend it and part farce (as Zero said). It was a cover to reveal Sara's true intentions. That ball was organized by Kaname so he was in control of the invitations, who will come and who will manage. He announced it over his meeting with the hunters, making sure they will watch over it. There everything is in place, and all the pawns available for Sara's use. The ball was like killing 3 birds with one stone. 1. to usher Yuki as new pureblood, 2. as an assurance to the hunters that the Kurans still have the power and capability to rule, perhaps also a preparation for Yuki's next step after kaname leaves her 3. to confirm Sara's suspicion that she's up to something.

So all Kaname need to do was to send Sara and Ouri invitations, as well as the other purebloods. He may or may not have monitored the other rooms, but one thing is for sure, he had Seiren watched over Ouri's guest room. So in the event something happened to him, Kaname smelled Sara's fresh smell of blood and that confirmed it.
Kaname then began to move and in the meantime continued to educate Yuki by giving her the initiative to take artemis and do what she wants with it. Again, this means she asserting leadership roles and developing qualities of a leader.

now we confirm that Kaname had Ruka and Kain watch over the Hanadagi castle for movements.
while it was suspected that it was Takuma who keeps informing the hunter's association about Sara's movements.

So if suspicion is true then Kaname and Takuma's actions are directly related and this may be because they are collaborating secretly.

It all falls into place that eventually Sara made her move to kill hanadagi without even glancing back after she made the two initial steps to her plans: get the pharmaceutical president under her control, and get her harem. She is clearly planning for dominance over society with this actions and only time will tell when it will reach a groundbreaking conclusion.

now she only takes hanadagi's heart but cannot kill him. Here she is surprise when he wokes up (or it looks that way to me) and she did not expect that she will have to kill him. so she flees.
I think Kaname killing Ouri had to do with two things: ouri had already controlled aido-dono to give him blood, which would be troublesome if it happened, and the other one is to complete Sara's actions OR he has his own reasons
I think since Sara did not expect Hanadagi to wake up hence she fled. if this was an unexpected action for her then that means it was a hole in kaname's plans so he had a back up plan which was to finish hanadagi himself. I think. That could explain why he looks like he's standing on the background watching the events unfold before he actually participated, to see if Sara can do the entire thing. But she didn't so kaname had to finish him. He killed him after she was well off and gone from the picture. And then he killed Aido-dono who was witness to all this, or so it looks like.

Notice the fact that each time Sara makes a move it seems like there's a conspiracy moving along with her that creates the illusion she is achieving it without anyone's suspicion. Or is it? She thinks she's doing everything perfectly and not arousing suspicion, but what if that part was staged as well? Like how Kaname stages this?

So if everything is staged to make it appear she is winning then it will continue that way... the question is, when will Sara realize that she's being set up? or is she..?

PS. @ Juliet if nothing from my above babbling comes true, please would you write a nice and touching fic like you know???

oh yes I'm sure julied would. maybe another smut fic.

now juliet... did you read that? now you have to make TWO fanfics if my prediction fails too. fufu... then you won't be so bored during your time..

Ah, you've written so much, I wonder how I am going to catch up with you....okay start with the more recent ones...

now she only takes hanadagi's heart but cannot kill him. Here she is surprise when he wokes up (or it looks that way to me) and she did not expect that she will have to kill him. so she flees.

Sara intended to awaken Hanadagi, and not only that but to feed him as well in case he was all dried up so that she would get more powers…

Spoiler:

Now sacrificing some blood there...m, Rido reference....

Certainly reminded me of Rido’s action there, only that Sara at the end wakes up the ancestor not by feeding him but by attacking his heart to get the powers.
As none of them features anti-vampire powers, profoundly Sara needs the hunter’s hand to get rid of Hanadagi there.

He killed him after she was well off and gone from the picture. And then he killed Aido-dono who was witness to all this, or so it looks like.

M, after getting his heart she manages to get away easily, I have the idea though that she fleenches just when she senses Kaname's arrival.

If Kaname gets there at that time, then it's also late to stop Sara, plus he is in a hurry to kill Hanadagi instantly without introductions and dialogue (for whatever reasons) while Yuuki is also at the way there, gaining time to speak to Aido -dono, before Yuuki arrives to see the Aido's-dono murder infront of her eyes. I still believe that a part of that killing was intended to be seen.

1. Cross was heading where; when Yuuki “hijacked” their car … this little “coincidence” placed Cross in the right place on the right time …
2. He did what ever he could to stop Yuuki for going after Kaname … even slapping and arresting her!
3. With a little push, almost guidance from Cross, Yuuki took the role of the leader.
4. Synchronously kept her occupied by permitting the re-opening of the NC and delaying her wish to find Kaname << allowing him to proceed with his plan undistracted and maybe knowing that Yuuki is in good hands. ( >> another mirror with the 1st arc? … Kaname entrusted Yuuki for 10 years into Cross’s hands … is impossible to have done it again???)

Yes, the coindidence is fishy, from all the cars of the world she meets Cross...

Aido is not released (thrown outside of the HA) but indeed escorted from the president of the hunters...its a bit of too much a coincidence there but then again Cross does not seem to know Kaname's whereabouts and he himself fishy about Kaname's intention.
Even though Kaname's last scene may had that intention, taking advantage of that "coincidence" and revealing Aido's dono murder at the eyes of the suprised spectators in order to entrust Yuuki's safety to the hunters, certainly if Cross had not stopped her, she would have ran to him, and he did not wish that.

I suspect this since at the ball when Kaname sent invitations to Takuma he knew his address (and it was the same address where Sara lives) so he did know something but he didn't say anything. Takuma too refuses to say or see him in person at the ball.
/
EDIT
Kaname also told Shiki and Rima that Takuma was fine and there was no need to search for him
http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-28/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html

so Kaname knows that Takuma lives with Sara, but he knows he's fine and he told others not to search for him...
on the other hand Takuma doesn't say the reason why he wouldn't meet with Kaname in person at the ball!
its obvious if you tie the incidents..

I think the probability they're working together is very high or even likely.
/
The question is IF they have secret communication with each other and if so the question is how.

Very good observation there!! But if Takuma can notify the hunters, and it seems that he does (two visits- two hunters surveillance after Sara), perhaps in the same way he notifies Kaname.

So if everything is staged to make it appear she is winning then it will continue that way... the question is, when will Sara realize that she's being set up? or is she..?

Ha,ha, I love this part. IF she is staged that well, then its no suprising that Kaname does nothing about Sara but leaves to go on with his initial plan...it's the hunters call;

Spoiler:

Here they seem quite alert, Zero has even more suspicious than he states;

Spoiler:

So how it possible that they would let of such a case go and slip through their hands?

@ Nina and Solace, LOL, you have the script ready for me there, do not worry I shall not dissapoint you or I will try...or you can

LOL

sweetsolace wrote: oh yes I'm sure juliet would. maybe another smut fic.

now juliet... did you read that? now you have to make TWO fanfics if my prediction fails too.

fufu... then you won't be so bored during your time..

Haha I like our confidence sweet

Look I think our tales aren’t controversial no? So Juliet-sensei could combine the two tales together and make ONE nice piece of art!!!
Killing two birds with one stone … she’ll make both of us happy!

Juliet wrote: @ Nina and Solace, LOL, you have the script ready for me there, do not worry I shall not dissapoint you or I will try

See?? Our wish will granted!! Haha thank you juli!!!!

Ok back on topic lol.

sweetsolace wrote: I think Kaname knew Sara had plans to be queen the moment he found out (presumably) that Takuma was kidnapped by Sara after he killed his grandfather before the start of the second arc.

I agree … that’s what I implied too … she approached Kaname even from the 1st arc, the first ball.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2143-39/vampire-knight/chapter-25.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2143-41/vampire-knight/chapter-25.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2143-42/vampire-knight/chapter-25.html

Yuuki’s words …”the best match for Kaname-senpai” … her interest in him was obvious … then came Takuma’s kidnap. Sara also admits that she was planning to ask Asato to take Takuma why?

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-29/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-30/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

“you will come in quite handy for me to know what Kaname-san plans” … so she took Takuma targeting Kaname.

I suspect this since at the ball when Kaname sent invitations to Takuma he knew his address (and it was the same address where Sara lives) so he did know something but he didn't say anything. Takuma too refuses to say or see him in person at the ball. The question is IF they have secret communication with each other and if so the question is how.

You’re right again … Kaname surely knew where Takuma was … and Takuma’s behavior at the ball was veryyyy fishy. When I had read this chapter my first thought was that maybe Takuma didn’t want Sara to see him talking to Kaname, in order not to raise suspicions …

sweetsolace wrote:
Kaname also told Shiki and Rima that Takuma was fine and there was no need to search for him
http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-28/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html

so Kaname knows that Takuma lives with Sara, but he knows he's fine and he told others not to search for him...
on the other hand Takuma doesn't say the reason why he wouldn't meet with Kaname in person at the ball!
its obvious if you tie the incidents..

I think the probability they're working together is very high or even likely.

WOW! Sweet great remark! I didn’t remember this passage! I think now with the current development we can assume that there is a highly possibility, That Takuma was in some kind communication with Kaname. Why Kaname didn’t want Rima and Shiki to seek for him huh?

Anyway … even if they didn’t had any communication with each other their relationship was so close in the past that I think:
1. Takuma the minute he discovered Sara’s interest for Kaname he would work for his interest even if he didn’t know Kaname’s plan. Now I’m sure about it more than ever lol.
2. Kaname also on his behalf has trust on Takuma.

What I’m trying to say is that the two off them have such a relation that maybe they don’t need communication in order to work in the same length wave.

Sara intended to awaken Hanadagi, and not only that but to feed him as well in case he was all dried up so that she would get more powers…

Now sacrificing some blood there...m, Rido reference....

I don't think so. She noted he was NOT completely dried up, if he was, she thought she would need some blood to arouse him

Rido on the other hand needed blood to wake kaname as he was completely dried up (he was sleeping for many centuries while hanadagi only slept for 400-500 years)

M, after getting his heart she manages to get away easily, I have the idea though that she fleenches just when she senses Kaname's arrival.

Sara was long gone when kaname popped out, kaname only appeared when hanadagi had already controlled aido-dono to give him blood. so certain amount of time passed and her last reaction has nothing to do

Yes, the coindidence is fishy, from all the cars of the world she meets Cross...
Aido is not released (thrown outside of the HA) but indeed escorted from the president of the hunters...its a bit of too much a coincidence there but then again Cross does not seem to know Kaname's whereabouts and he himself fishy about Kaname's intention.
Even though Kaname's last scene may had that intention, taking advantage of that "coincidence" and revealing Aido's dono murder at the eyes of the suprised spectators in order to entrust Yuuki's safety to the hunters, certainly if Cross had not stopped her, she would have ran to him, and he did not wish that.

I think coincidence can happen there in this case, i dont think kaname planned it
aido was just released from prison and was to be "returned home" so the car was meant to bring him back to Kuran residence (where he currently resides), it was timing that yuki crossed paths with them, neither could predict she wanted to chase after kaname after he left, or that she already did it the morning after that.
i think that the scene was not how kaname wanted it, either way if it was intended or not, even if it wasn't and yuki did not go to the castle, Kaien still has an excuse to place her under "special detention" because she was kaname's fiancee.

@ Nina and Solace, LOL, you have the script ready for me there, do not worry I shall not dissapoint you or I will try...or you can

I will be waiting for that

Look I think our tales aren’t controversial no? So Juliet-sensei could combine the two tales together and make ONE nice piece of art!!!
Killing two birds with one stone … she’ll make both of us happy!

oh no... it's not controversial, really it is not. :p nothing like that at all.

When I had read this chapter my first thought was that maybe Takuma didn’t want Sara to see him talking to Kaname, in order not to raise suspicions …

yes I was thinking the same but then later on notice that takuma is hiding himself as a waiter.. if he just didnt want to be seen talking to kaname then he can avoid going to the party altogether, why the pretend

Anyway … even if they didn’t had any communication with each other their relationship was so close in the past that I think:
1. Takuma the minute he discovered Sara’s interest for Kaname he would work for his interest even if he didn’t know Kaname’s plan. Now I’m sure about it more than ever lol.
2. Kaname also on his behalf has trust on Takuma.

yes this might be, also takuma says that he will do everything to help kaname even though it was difficult here in ch73. so you can see how close they are .

kaname on the other hand i believe he's playing with all the cards available on his deck, seiren, takuma , ruka and kain.. all of them were his trusted allies

What is happening? Do you believe that his plan is to kill all purebloods as Cross says?

Now even Cross is against him, this makes me sad . To be honest I was expecting from Cross a far better understanding for Kaname's true motives there. Kaname right now stands alone, apart from Ruka and Kain. But if his plan was that bad would they support it? To me it seems that he is going to risk his own life there (thus Ruka's sadness and his decision to leave Yuuki behind), but eventually for what reason? I do not understand much of his actions anymore but what I see here is that he is seeking to be the bersek and the dangerous, the misunderstood. He had always been but lately he is acting like wanting that deliberately, any more ideas?

What do you predict that will happen with him?

I think Kaname is going to kill all of purebloods. It is sad and I undestand why Kaien who belives that they all could live in peace, cannot support him.
Kaname always was fond of humans and he could see cruelty of purebloods. Perhaps, after the murder on the ball he acknowledged the truth that this state must be changed?
It not explain why he left Yuuki, it's impossible he would consider her as enemy of human race. Maybe he want her to awe vampires into obedience after murdering others purebloods?
If it is true, it is naturally that Ruka and Kain doesn't approve his plans. They was teached the respect toward purebloods and think exactly like Aidou-dono that purebloods must live to control the rest of their race.

Sometime I am worried for kaname. I am afraid he is into a suicidal mission and in the end he will turn yuuki into a human and this will go to his death.
I hope it won't be like that.

but I don't think kaname's plan is to kill all pureblood. is hard to believe his plan is so simple. i think he follow a selection.

A reason I don't think kaname will die is that "start over". when yuuki asked for that and kaname said "yes" he decided before to accomplish his plans.

well but wasnt it said he was going after the heads of pureblood familes, if his goal is to kill all purebloods he should kill the other members as well he isnt a madman he has a reason for doing whatever he is doing. i dont think he will die in end. i still believe he will be happy with yuuki in end

I think Kaname is deliberately being pictured as the Man Against The World where everyone suddenly drops what they're doing to point fingers on Kaname as the bad guy and he just nods and says, "Yeah I am"

ok seriously the reasons are lame, I don't understand why Kaien is suddenly joining the Bandwagon and pointing swords at Kaname. Did he completely forgot that some chapters ago he was making prank calls to Kaname, faking Yuki's accident just so he would come over?? Or that Kaname was the only pureblood who wanted coexistence?? ALL that changed because he SAW him kill Aido-dono and a pureblood?? Did he even stop to investigate WHY? The fact I remembered him only say, "Kaname seems to be intent on killing purebloods" but none of them actually questioned him about it, I expected kaien to be more understanding since he KNOWS Kaname's good side and this change of goal means he's doing it for a reason. But noooo he's actually the first one to point sword at him.

The reasons seeem utterly lame, so I like to think (to salvage VK's credibility of having sensible plots that make sense) Kaien means something else and he knows something more than what he shows. But other than that it doesnt seem probable.

juliet wrote:To me it seems that he is going to risk his own life there (thus Ruka's sadness and his decision to leave Yuuki behind), but eventually for what reason?

Juliet you make it seem so sad. Again I like to think this is all leading for the best. I don't think he's planning to get himself killed (at least not yet...or maybe he won't even plan to die.) I just don't have a feeling he will die. He left Yuki looking like he will leave her but he will come back later. I think Ruka's sadness can also mean Kaname throwing his image to the fire and inevitably being misunderstood. If you think about it, if Kaname says he will die at the end, I don't think Ruka will cooperate in something that will lead to that. I think she will prevent it.

There's a reason why his reasons are camouflaged and everything seems to be going in one direction for now. With this, it's too predictable to say he will die when there's a huge hole unanswered there.

I think the feeling Kaname gives in killing purebloods and without any tangible reason is a deliberate attempt from Hino to give readers a sense of helplessness and inevitability to his fate, which is another reason to suspect why so.

aya-chan wrote:Sometime I am worried for kaname. I am afraid he is into a suicidal mission and in the end he will turn yuuki into a human and this will go to his death.
I hope it won't be like that.

but I don't think kaname's plan is to kill all pureblood. is hard to believe his plan is so simple. i think he follow a selection.

I do get the same feeling with you; at the first arc we were worried about Zero, now Hino makes us worry about Kaname.

Kaname always was fond of humans and he could see cruelty of purebloods. Perhaps, after the murder on the ball he acknowledged the truth that this state must be changed?

I think that Kaname decided to act after Yuuki left with Artemis...thus she indicated her path and he knew that he would have to go ahead and offer her a better world and safe where her dreams about peace could finally bloom..that's where I put the main point where he realizes that his initial plan must this time be fulfilled.

well but wasnt it said he was going after the heads of pureblood familes, if his goal is to kill all purebloods he should kill the other members as well he isnt a madman he has a reason for doing whatever he is doing. i dont think he will die in end. i still believe he will be happy with yuuki in end.

I agree; if he wanted to kill all purebloods he would have killed all the familly, not just the head...like Hanadagi and Hio. So there seems to be a selection there; the older perhaps; the ancient ones?

But practically now the hunters are againts him and he is facing all these alone; he certainly needs Yuuki more than ever to stop him before its too late for him. But with the rythm that Yuuki is right now developping so dissapointed there, Hino just prolongs the torture!!

ok seriously the reasons are lame, I don't understand why Kaien is suddenly joining the Bandwagon and pointing swords at Kaname. Did he completely forgot that some chapters ago he was making prank calls to Kaname, faking Yuki's accident just so he would come over?? Or that Kaname was the only pureblood who wanted coexistence?? ALL that changed because he SAW him kill Aido-dono and a pureblood?? Did he even stop to investigate WHY?

And it was Kaname the one that entrusted him Yuuki since he had no choice but to leave her someone. To this point yes Kaien is oblivious, he forgets that all the things that were done at the academy (whhich fulfilled Yuuri's wishes) were because of Kaname.
He is in a hurry to judge Kaname. And that's dissapointing, it almost seems like his great issue is not to have Yuuki return to Kaname and not WHY Kaname acts like he does. It is a part of me that believes that Kaname's visit to Isaya had not even the intention to kill him, because if he was standing outside and spoke to Ruka (LOL) before entering the house apparently that's not a plan to go for a pureblood's murder. Anyway the script is a bit looney here but..

There's a reason why his reasons are camouflaged and everything seems to be going in one direction for now. With this, it's too predictable to say he will die when there's a huge hole unanswered there.

I think the feeling Kaname gives in killing purebloods and without any tangible reason is a deliberate attempt from Hino to give readers a sense of helplessness and inevitability to his fate, which is another reason to suspect why so.

I am not saying that Hino is going to kill him (I do believe that the great twist will happen like it happened with Zero> all things were going one way again and yet he managed it.
But as a character I think Kaname sets off to fulfill his plan with the intention to go all the way; meaning I get the sense that if he has to be killed to accomplish what he wants, he is willing to get that far. Why/? because apparently he knows that in doing all these, he is provoking the hunters and by his answer to Kaien “If you are to stop me, then you would be eliminated too.”, so to kill the HA's official president, is quite serious.
He is risking it too much, so I have no idea, if he does not expect the worst, what the plan B would be to save his self or his image? Yes okay, I am turning pessimistic again but honestly here why is he turning everybody againts him if he at least cares for himself?

juliet wrote:And it was Kaname the one that entrusted him Yuuki since he had no choice but to leave her someone. To this point yes Kaien is oblivious, he forgets that all the things that were done at the academy (whhich fulfilled Yuuri's wishes) were because of Kaname.
He is in a hurry to judge Kaname. And that's dissapointing, it almost seems like his great issue is not to have Yuuki return to Kaname and not WHY Kaname acts like he does. It is a part of me that believes that Kaname's visit to Isaya had not even the intention to kill him, because if he was standing outside and spoke to Ruka (LOL) before entering the house apparently that's not a plan to go for a pureblood's murder. Anyway the script is a bit looney here but..

exactly. Kaien's attitude does not make sense here, it seems like he doesn't know Kaname personally.
And you're right with kaname standing outside Isaya's house.. he even stopped to discuss with Ruka and all, if he was planning to get in and kill Isaya he could've done that quite easily by transforming into bats rather than going through the front door.
And how did Kaien know kaname is coming over?? how does he know Kaname will go to Isaya next? It seems like there's something missing there... furthermore he is behaving strange.. i think there's more here, Kaien does seem to be secretive sometimes so maybe.. lol its the only way to save his character he is turning into Yuki

juliet wrote:I am not saying that Hino is going to kill him (I do believe that the great twist will happen like it happened with Zero> all things were going one way again and yet he managed it.
But as a character I think Kaname sets off to fulfill his plan with the intention to go all the way; meaning I get the sense that if he has to be killed to accomplish what he wants, he is willing to get that far. Why/? because apparently he knows that in doing all these, he is provoking the hunters and by his answer to Kaien “If you are to stop me, then you would be eliminated too.”, so to kill the HA's official president, is quite serious.
He is risking it too much, so I have no idea, if he does not expect the worst, what the plan B would be to save his self or his image? Yes okay, I am turning pessimistic again but honestly here why is he turning everybody againts him if he at least cares for himself?

Kaname has planned this long ago and has constantly hesitated to do it, when he finally does stop hesitating he killed the council that was supposed to be the first step and it put him in a bad image with the hunters, still he pushed on against the odds and made Yuki's entrance. I think the reason he hesitates is because precisely it will put him against everyone. This probably means he has no need for them. Or he's thinking this is a small sacrifice compared to the change he thinks his actions will create.

Its like what he said when he evaded the suspicion of Shizuka's death, "I still have some things to do in this academy." It's also what Sara said when she prevented Takuma from exposing her. IMO their reputation there was important so they can do their remaining plans. I think Sara will also expose her plans when she has everything on a plate and she has no use pretending.
When Kaname relinquished all regard for that and being pinned as murderer my impression was he no longer has any need for reputation, and the only one that should matter is the trust/faith of the people he loves. He is risking it, but I think he's done hesitating. It was time to sacrifice his image as its use was done, IMO. This doesn't mean he will sacrifice his life.

I would believe he will die or he plans to kill himself, when, he is battling against impossible odds with only himself. But he has Ruka, Kain and Seiren, plus he is the most powerful pureblood. The hunters are not even pursuing him, except of course, Kaien, who was the first, but I guess their "most powerful hunter" is busy with Yuki. He even favors Kaname's actions. So really what are the threats to Kaname's life, there is Sara who still refuses to expose herself. If they all attacked Kaname at once, Sara + hunters, probably Kaname might die, but judging their oblivious behavior perhaps not.

I don't think kaname plans on suicide, so far he's not indicated this, and the last time he said it does not even seem serious. Perhaps if Yuki intervenes and decides she doesn't like what he's doing, then she can certainly say she will leave him, and this gives her reason to kill Kaname. Maybe this is even the reason why Kaname wanted Yuki out of the way, because he could never harm her, and that literally makes her as the only person capable of killing him.

So there let's be optimistic, events usually have a tendency to troll a lot.. xD

I do fear for Kaname at the moment, him pushing Yuuki away, making himself the bad guy and continuing with his original plans, seems to me like someone who is trying to finish off everything before they leave the earth. I’m probably wrong but he does make me worry sometimes. I’m just glad ruka, kain and siren are with him, they are pretty loyal and will hopefully keep him safe for the meantime.

Kaien’s reaction isn’t what I expected; yeah it seems like Kaname has gone bad, but surely he knows Kaname better than that?! Come on Kaien you know he doesn’t do anything without a pretty strong and big reason, don’t be narrow minded and open your eyes.

With Kaname just killing the heads of the pureblood families I’m wondering whether it ties in with the purpose of the nightclass. The nightclass was created to teach young vampires that they could live in harmony with humans, a new way of life for them. With Kaname killing the heads I think it may be due to the heads being very old vampires who have the old approach on life, humans as food and being slaves, so they won’t ever fully support the co-existence. Whereas maybe younger members of these pureblood families haven’t lived so long in the old way, and would be more willing to accept and fully support the co-existence, due to a new ideology they have been brought up in?
I hope that made sense.

I'd wonder what Isaya is doing? Sitting inside waiting for Kaname to arrive?

But anyway I don't think Kaien is unreasonable here, his response is logical. Kaname isn't open to being questioned and he's not asking anyone to trust him. He had an opportunity to explain himself and he just left with an apology. Now he's killed three heads of families and witnesses (or maybe just made the witnesses disappear). He's left Yuuki because she's a hindrance to his plans. Kaname's actions have stirred trouble. Kaien cannot continue to stand idly by (he's been far too complacent), Kaname has violated the peace he pledged to uphold and with that in mind, Kaien is pointing his sword at Kaname, pledged to defend his long time friend. Kaien hasn't said he's willing to kill Kaname, but Kaname on the other hand has confirmed he is willing to kill Kaien and anyone who stands in his way.

Kaname may have good intentions, but he's not doing his reputation any favours if he wants people to trust his actions, because his actions are threatening.

I think Kaien and the hunters have got the wrong end of the stick, I don't think Kaname is killing all the purebloods, just the heads of families.

Question, why, if he's killing purebloods to protect people and an ideal of peace, is he first killing the ones who are sleeping? What about the most dangerous first? If actions like the murder at the party started this, why not take down Sara first? yet now the pureblood who took other purebloods' hearts is in the same vicinity as Yuuki and Kaname is the only one who knows how much she is capable of. I just don't know what he's going for here...

Hallelujah!!!! My favourite theme … Kaname hahaha.

Until now I believed that Kaname had a specific plan which ultimately would bring co-existence, protection for the humans and ofc a better and safer world for his beloved girl, but not through the elimination of the whole PB’s race.

But since is stated in the last chapter that his original plan is to kill all the PBs I’d like to add a few questions if that’s the case …

Knightmare wrote:

I think Kaien and the hunters have got the wrong end of the stick, I don't think Kaname is killing all the purebloods, just the heads of families.

Question, why, if he's killing purebloods to protect people and an ideal of peace, is he first killing the ones who are sleeping? What about the most dangerous first? If actions like the murder at the party started this, why not take down Sara first? yet now the pureblood who took other purebloods' hearts is in the same vicinity as Yuuki and Kaname is the only one who knows how much she is capable of. I just don't know what he's going for here...

Exactly ... same here ... I have the same questions ...

Is his original plan so simple? Could Hino unveil it so easy and so soon?

If so then why he waited for so long? As he said to the senate just before wiped it off he was executing a plan that he had thought since his first period of despair >>> meaning his ancestral times, and they were the first that should go. So apparently his plan was started since then hence my question is; why he didn’t start his killing spree right after Rido’s extermination?

Did he wait only for Yuuki’s sake in order to teach her how to be a PB and strengthen her? If so, why it was so necessary since either way there wouldn’t be any PB who could threaten her after his plan’s completion? No PBs >> no threats for Yuuki … she could be spreading her stupidity freely …

However he did tell to Yuuki, just before their separation, that once again a hesitation had grown inside him. Maybe the key is in the chapter with Rido’s talk about his contradictions and despair… I tend to think that he took his final decision to go through with his plan in that moment, when he crashed Rido’s remains, thus his contradictions. Also as Juliet has pointed out … Yuuki’s decision to take her Artemis and play the reaper, played also a role >>> he knew the path that she would choose and she just confirmed to him with her choice.

But again another question is popping into my head … what purpose had it served Yuuki’s introduction to vampires’ society as the Kuran princess? Cuz even if he wanted to reassure that she would become the next leader after his stepping down or his death, I find it worthless cuz after the conclusion of his plan wouldn’t be left any PB in life … so, either Yuuki would be the unchallengeable leader as the only remained PB among lower level vampires, or it wouldn’t be any reason for her to be a leader at all >>> the role of the Queen of the bees is something that he wants to uproot, either way.
Also at the ball said that he wanted to send the message who he was protecting aka Yuuki. Again what for; IF he either way was gonna kill all the PBs?

Could be that he made his final decision after Sara killed Ouri?
Was enough Sara’s doings to make him start his original plan; such a big scale and radical plan cuz of a naughty PB, who was an easy target for him, made him to definitize that there is no hope for the PB race? I have a difficulty to believe so… Therefore probably behind Sara’s moves is lurking a bigger threat …

But it seems like Ouri’s murder from Sara and moreover Hanadagi’s awaking from her was the starting point to actualize his plan …
Therefore even if he couldn’t break Hanadagi’s icy shield of his castle, in order to reach him, he could easily kill Ouri and take his power to break it and not allow Sara to take his power, because, either way, even if Ouri was a peaceful PB ultimately he would kill him too, IF his plan was to wipe off all the PBs. So, why he let her? One more murder what different would make? Again probably he made his decision afterwards but he was monitoring Hana’s castle prior the ball, viz he was expecting a move …

But let’s make the hypothesis that he was waiting for Sara’s move for an unknown reason …
- Why he killed Nagamichi? How powerful he was in order to stop him? Cuz even if he would try what he could do? Even if he would inform the vampires’ society … as we saw later, when the news were spread for Kaname’s killings, none of them did something to stop him. Also is quite contradictory … Aidou-dono consented for his killing … he wouldn’t agree to stay out of Kaname’s plan???? He preferred his death over his silence??? Not to mention that especially Nagamichi’s death brought bigger uproar in vampires’ society and labelled Kaname as a dangerous vampire, viz on hunters’ spotlight … but most importantly, Yuuki in a difficult position among the vampires …

- Even so … is this enough reason to agree for his “unjustified” murder Ruka and Kain who were his sib and on top of that he was the father of their best friend and cousin? Cuz they did know what Kaname did inside Hana’s castle. How are they gonna face Hanabusa again? <<< could they know that when Kaname finish with his plan everything will be “in order”?

- After Hana’s and Aidou-dono’s killings the vampires’ society and the hunters suspected that he is doing something unjustified and they afraid that sooner or later it will come their turn. So, why he chose as his next target Hiou who was a PB in slumber hence he couldn’t pose a threat or an opposition currently? If his plan was to exterminate all the PBs, wouldn’t be more logical to start his killing spree from the ones who were awake? Cuz by killing first the ones who were in slumber he exposed his intentions hence the other PBs who are awake could a) gather all together to oppose him, cuz approximately should be 30 or b) to escape … ???

- Why he chooses as his next target Isaya (if that was the purpose of why he went there), a PB who … a) was an ally of the Kurans, b) was a peaceful PB who didn’t show any intention to oppose him, or interfere even after his killings, c) was Cross’s friend, viz his extermination would probably put him in hunters list or at least into Cross’s personal list …

- If he went there for that purpose, why he had with him Ruka and Kain, exposing them (with all the implications that could mean, their “participation in the future. At least Kain would never agree to support Kaname’s plan if that would mean no future for Ruka). And why he was talking with Ruka so “ignorantly” and casually in front of Isaya’s house?

sweetsolace wrote:

juliet wrote: It is a part of me that believes that Kaname's visit to Isaya had not even the intention to kill him, because if he was standing outside and spoke to Ruka (LOL) before entering the house apparently that's not a plan to go for a pureblood's murder. Anyway the script is a bit looney here but..

And you're right with kaname standing outside Isaya's house.. he even stopped to discuss with Ruka and all, if he was planning to get in and kill Isaya he could've done that quite easily by transforming into bats rather than going through the front door.

Exactly … it doesn’t make sense … well if it was Yuuki’s plan then okay I could understand … but from Kaname I can’t believe that clumsiness lol.

- So … why he picked up Isaya for his next target and not Touma for example; who provenly is a bad PB, has hurt Yuuki in the past, isn’t so young as he seems to be and obviously is more possible to make a move especially after Isaya’s execution … I suppose if he’d kill Isaya no one would have any doubt that he is killing all the PBs. So Touma or the others would sit back and wait their execution obediently?

In other words it’s not making any sense … Even if his plan is to wipe off ALL the PBs, apparently his schedule/priorities s@cks … And is also Isaya’s wording previously that not only the reputation of the PBs will be damaged again but the hunters’ as well … Why the hunters???

About the theory that he kills only the heads of the PB’s families … something doesn’t fit to me.
How this could be the criterion?

1. Ouri was the head of his clan (if there is one, but you know what I mean … he was an old PB), but still seems like a very peaceful PB who didn’t involve into nasty acts and was occupied with charities. Furthermore he had attended at the ball, meaning that he wasn’t against the Kurans viz to their pacifism.

2. Isaya also is a same case like Ouri and moreover a proven ally of the Kurans …

3. Sara isn’t the head of her family; she isn’t so old but still scheming and turning humans into vampires/slaves. How many chances does she have to change? The same would apply and to Shizuka’s case …

So if Kaname’s selectiveness is based on their position as the heads of their families apparently this is wrong (2 heads appear to be peaceful whereas the younger not) and mostly ineffectively cuz he would have kill two peaceful and innocent PBs whereas Sara or Touma or Shizuka would have escaped only because they are younger? And I’m lending these names as examples cuz Sara either way is guilty and she’s not gonna escape. But my point is who can ensure that in the future a new “Sara” or “Shizuka” would not appear? And meanwhile he would have killed innocents like Isaya for example, who wouldn’t pose any threat neither in the future …

Therefore even if he wanted to pass a message in vampires’ society still the message is perverse and unfair in the core … cuz what is the message of Isaya’s death? He lived his life according to Kurans ideology but still, he murdered him?
Or how he can be sure that the remaining younger PBs will be willing to change or their “education” will be proven effective?

Bottom line is that I found in both scenarios big holes …

The only I could think of is that he had specific reasons for killing Hana and Hiou and that on purpose wants everyone to believe that he is in a killing spree cuz he wants to achieve something. Or he doesn’t care if everyone will believe so. But I tend to think that is the first cuz >>> Why he’s taking the risk to gang up everyone against him since he supposedly has around 25 killings to deliver?

@ Nina and Knightmare, I agree this plan about the extermination of all purebloods is unjustified..lots of holes..unjustified criteria...

Kaien cannot continue to stand idly by (he's been far too complacent), Kaname has violated the peace he pledged to uphold and with that in mind, Kaien is pointing his sword at Kaname, pledged to defend his long time friend. Kaien hasn't said he's willing to kill Kaname, but Kaname on the other hand has confirmed he is willing to kill Kaien and anyone who stands in his way.

But Kaien one way or another (no matter his believes) should ask WHY?
He is going for the obvious without even questioning? Anyway...dissapointed here.

Whereas maybe younger members of these pureblood families haven’t lived so long in the old way, and would be more willing to accept and fully support the co-existence, due to a new ideology they have been brought up in?
I hope that made sense.

That's another part that we should see...but wouldn't that make the younger members to seek revenge thus a vendeta against Kaname created? This is another factor here that seems irrational. This is my belief that Kaname is twisting everyone against him.

Not to mention that especially Nagamichi’s death brought bigger uproar in vampires’ society and labelled Kaname as a dangerous vampire, viz on hunters’ spotlight … but most importantly, Yuuki in a difficult position among the vampires …

Yes another effort here to twist everyone here against him, the hunters, his old allies, even Yuuki's trust. Nagamichi's murder (I almsot feel certain about it now) was in purpose served that way in public view- just when Yuuki, Aido and Kaien arrive, it's no coincidence. He wants to be seen..he wants to lose the faith of his own people. He deliberately becomes the "bersek" and the "dangerous". I am not even certain if Aido's dad is dead. It's along shot but to me it seemed like a front cover there, a mutual agreement, so that the vampire society perhaps should seek for a new leader? perhaps to make Yuuki hate him and never ever go after him?

In other words it’s not making any sense … Even if his plan is to wipe off ALL the PBs, apparently his schedule/priorities s@cks … And is also Isaya’s wording previously that not only the reputation of the PBs will be damaged again but the hunters’ as well … Why the hunters???

LOL Zero? unless Isaya is a mind reader I can not explain it but that's a good one.

I am still thinking possible explanations here but right now I am out of inspiration

We know Kaname collected all the pieces at the academy in the first arc. It's obvious that's what he did here. Maybe he is only killing PB heads to draw Sara out. The hunters are suspicious of her. Kaname's actions drove her to come live with the Night Class where the Hunters' Association could keep a closer watch over her movements. In chapter 74, Kaname knew Kaien would come to confront him, and Kaien himself said he was expecting him. When Yuuki was following Kanamae, Kaien conveniently was there to pick her up. Kaname wanted to be seen at that time as well.

It's possible this whole Kaname vs. Kaien thing is only a smokescreen to further draw Sara out.

juliet wrote:
Yes another effort here to twist everyone here against him, the hunters, his old allies, even Yuuki's trust. Nagamichi's murder (I almsot feel certain about it now) was in purpose served that way in public view- just when Yuuki, Aido and Kaien arrive, it's no coincidence. He wants to be seen..he wants to lose the faith of his own people. He deliberately becomes the "bersek" and the "dangerous". I am not even certain if Aido's dad is dead. It's along shot but to me it seemed like a front cover there, a mutual agreement, so that the vampire society perhaps should seek for a new leader? perhaps to make Yuuki hate him and never ever go after him

I also have the same feeling, however I'm not too sure since how could Kaname have timed
-Yuki's decision to chase after him, which seemed like the morning after he left
-how could he have timed the wagon car passing Yuki's way and Yuki's decision to mount it
-how could he have timed Aido-dono's death and Yuki's arrival in the castle. What if it was only Yuki who witnessed it? What if Kaien didn't pass by, what if Kaien took a different route? What if Kaname had some difficulty killing Hanadagi and that generally lengthened the time between the murder and Aido-dono's death?
It seem a little too predestined that he knows its their fate to witness the scene, rather than contrived. But knowing Kaname maybe it's not so difficult..

Nagamichi's death also baffles me. Clearly there was a consensual agreement there before the death, he even bows reverently as if he was ready to die after such a small amount of pep talk. I can't seem to have a fine grasp on what happened there, surely Nagamichi should feel some sort of panic or fear but there was immediate resignation to his fate?? And WHY was their conversation blocked out?? they must be talking about something that was related to Nagamichi's lack of strong expressions regarding his supposed "death" because I don't see the logic behind killing Nagamichi just because.

On the other hand, Nagamichi also mentions something that may explain this, his words to Kaname in ch65, "I know that Kaname-sama will not hesitate to sacrifice our lives. I know this from Ichijou's death and the council." but he was talking about the necessary action that resulted from the long time corruption of the council's ways, not murdering an innocent for his goals.

Nagamichi's expression doesn't look like its coming from a man who knows Kaname is about to kill him in cold blood
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/34

its more like a perfect acknowledgement and a sign of instant cooperation to whatever Kaname told him before that.

So either this is an elaborate illusion yet again, or there's something more.

nina wrote:If so then why he waited for so long? As he said to the senate just before wiped it off he was executing a plan that he had thought since his first period of despair >>> meaning his ancestral times, and they were the first that should go. So apparently his plan was started since then hence my question is; why he didn’t start his killing spree right after Rido’s extermination?

Did he wait only for Yuuki’s sake in order to teach her how to be a PB and strengthen her? If so, why it was so necessary since either way there wouldn’t be any PB who could threaten her after his plan’s completion? No PBs >> no threats for Yuuki … she could be spreading her stupidity freely …

I think he was waiting for the perfect time. He executed his first plan in the middle of chaos in the academy in chapter 43, and right when Yuki and Zero were off fighting Rido. That means, Yuki couldn't possibly see or intervene when Kaname was doing it. It seems to be similar with how he intended to keep her away from him when he's executing his plans.
Also at that time she was also adequately mentally prepared as a pureblood. So maybe Kaname had only hesitated because of the risk for Yuki's safety as a human? So when she was turned into a pureblood and vampires could no longer pose such a threat to her life, he ordered her to be taken to a safe place before the first set of his plans and let Zero take care of killing Rido. Yuki didn't obey him and helped Zero, meanwhile Kaname went ahead to do the first step.
But he was caught doing that when Maria saw him. And Yagari was about to pass judgment to him but he managed to go around it.
I think the first step was the pilot testing, the initial groundwork for his plans.

nina wrote:But again another question is popping into my head … what purpose had it served Yuuki’s introduction to vampires’ society as the Kuran princess?

Kaname seems to me the type who's thinking ten steps ahead of everyone, so perhaps what's happening to Yuki right now as the leader of the night class is also part of Kaname's plan for her, he did say he already knows which path she would take and he also told her not to hesitate to do that "something".
Im sure of one thing, Yuki's intro to vampire society ensures her participation in it, in that she already has a slot to be the position of a leader or a ruler in case Kaname was gone by the bloodline alone. Nobody knew her existence as a Kuran and as a pureblood before that, Kaname kept her hidden for a year, so that was definitely a start. I also think the timing of the party perhaps had to do with his other plans with Sara and the hunters, manipulating the way they think while also allowing it to become a benefit for Yuki; killing 3 or more birds in one.
After which he had began the Preparations for the others:
-making sure Kaname tells Aido that he trusts him -its like he's entrusting Yuki's to Aido
-leaving artemis to Yuki
-exposing his past to her
-letting her decide what to think of him, he asks her what he is to her and Yuki says what she thinks
This was after his contradictions with Rido, and I think at that point he was still debating whether to hang on to Yuki or to let her go. And I think his decision was to let her go by freely giving her the right to decide from that time onwards.
Kaname's actions before the contradiction, as we have seen, have all leaned towards pampering Yuki and deciding for her. And his actions after his meeting with Rido have all leaned towards freeing her, except giving her the artemis. So it is somewhat similar with the reasons he had hesitated to do his first plans before, it was about Yuki.
But I'm half inclined to believe, maybe it also has to do with Sara's movements, especially towards Hanadagi, he was keeping watch over his castle since chapter 52..

nina wrote:- So … why he picked up Isaya for his next target and not Touma for example;

uhm... maybe it has something to do with the alphabetical order of the names? LOL
1. Hanadagi
2. Hio
3. Isaya
crazy I know but Kaname's not touching Shirabuki yet and she starts with the S...

@ Sweet I agree ... but don’t you think that all of what Kaname have done thus far are a bit worthless IF he was planning to wipe off ALL the PBs? At least I have this feeling …

sweetsolace wrote:

nina wrote:- So … why he picked up Isaya for his next target and not Touma for example;

uhm... maybe it has something to do with the alphabetical order of the names? LOL
1. Hanadagi
2. Hio
3. Isaya
crazy I know but Kaname's not touching Shirabuki yet and she starts with the S...

until he reaches to S … OMG he has lots of work to do …

Mmm the alphabetic order seems sounder currently …

nina wrote:@ Sweet I agree ... but don’t you think that all of what Kaname have done thus far are a bit worthless IF he was planning to wipe off ALL the PBs? At least I have this feeling …

hm well I don't think he plans to kill all purebloods, only the heads of the families and so far there are 7 including Kuran. In another viewpoint he probably only wants to tweak the system a little thru killing purebloods so through him, the vampires won't be so reverent of pureblood's image anymore and he gets rid of the older purebloods.. whatever he plans. there seems to be an exaggeration there especially Zero's perception. But the script is confusing in general so anything can happen.

@Nagamichi's death
I was looking at the chapter where he was suppose to die
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/37
and had a hilarious thought what if Nagamichi popped his head under his neck the way a turtle or a snail would, so it just creates the illusion that it got choppped? < clearly out of ideas
ok but since it was clear Nagamichi's body dissolved to dust then he did die...
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/38
ok another shot.. what if Kaname resurrected him afterwards? if he only killed two people and the side effect of the sword is to siphon his blood, it doesn't make sense for his hand to look that dried up and black afterwards, since it can't be reason enough he was holding it long enough IF the theory of side effect is used. Furthermore, notice that Kaname turned to bat form after killing Nagamichi, so he can't be holding the sword longer than usual in his bat form right, at least not what was seen.
So my theory is this, Kaname brought back Aido-dono to life with the Kuran sword using the same hand, so it siphoned more of his blood than usual, Kaname seems to have abilities with his blood and we still don't know how special this Kuran sword is, maybe it can bring back the dead or create copies?
or maybe what Kaname killed was a sandbag version of Nagamichi?? LOL.

Rose.Petals wrote:We know Kaname collected all the pieces at the academy in the first arc. It's obvious that's what he did here. Maybe he is only killing PB heads to draw Sara out. The hunters are suspicious of her. Kaname's actions drove her to come live with the Night Class where the Hunters' Association could keep a closer watch over her movements. In chapter 74, Kaname knew Kaien would come to confront him, and Kaien himself said he was expecting him. When Yuuki was following Kanamae, Kaien conveniently was there to pick her up. Kaname wanted to be seen at that time as well.

It's possible this whole Kaname vs. Kaien thing is only a smokescreen to further draw Sara out.

But why? Wouldn't Takuma's statements be enough? takuma knows everything from the slaves to the cellar to the pharmaceutical company. Why it seems to me that most of the things that Sara does are allowed to be done (by the hunters?). It seems that they followed her at school and at the pharmaucetical company and that should be Takuma, who else would know who Sara would be visting? I just do not get it anymore...


The script in this arc is very messy, like jumping from one point to another, up to the chapter 68, it was moving slow but had a steady pace, now it moves fast and has lost pace, it’s almost like seeing cut scenes and not following a decent order, anyway…
@Sweet, it would be impossible for Kaname to know if Yuuki would follow him or if she would meet the hunters. But once they are close, its almost a certainty that he senses them approaching (as Yuuki made her way to Hanadagi’s castle almost sensing Kaname). So since he knows and he executes Aido-dono, infront of her (while he could have done it sooner or immediately if Killing was the objective), he chooses to discuss and he chooses to be seen, risking his reputation, his image as good leader and Yuuki’s love. So I believe that he is putting up that act there deliberately, therefore his objective was to be seen and not to kill Aido-dono. And that gives the idea that perhaps he could transform his blood (Kurans’ trait also) and ask from Aido-Dono to consent with his (fake) murder. As I said it’s a long shot, but at least this idea removes the “accidental factor” that does not fit in since Yuuki can sense Kaname from kilometers away, how is he allowing himself to be caught in the act? And gives an explanation to Kaname’s instant decision that Aido-dono should be killed, that did not exist that far.
Perhaps we should wonder in what has Aidou’s dad murder served this far? And why wouldn’t just Hanadagi’s murder served these purposes?

sweetsolace wrote:
@Nagamichi's death
I was looking at the chapter where he was suppose to die
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/37
and had a hilarious thought what if Nagamichi popped his head under his neck the way a turtle or a snail would, so it just creates the illusion that it got choppped? < clearly out of ideas
ok but since it was clear Nagamichi's body dissolved to dust then he did die...
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/38
ok another shot.. what if Kaname resurrected him afterwards? if he only killed two people and the side effect of the sword is to siphon his blood, it doesn't make sense for his hand to look that dried up and black afterwards, since it can't be reason enough he was holding it long enough IF the theory of side effect is used. Furthermore, notice that Kaname turned to bat form after killing Nagamichi, so he can't be holding the sword longer than usual in his bat form right, at least not what was seen.
So my theory is this, Kaname brought back Aido-dono to life with the Kuran sword using the same hand, so it siphoned more of his blood than usual, Kaname seems to have abilities with his blood and we still don't know how special this Kuran sword is, maybe it can bring back the dead or create copies?
or maybe what Kaname killed was a sandbag version of Nagamichi?? LOL.

Lol sweet I know …
And as long as the story goes and we have no reference or hints for Nagamichi’s death so I think that something weird is going on …

To tell you the truth the same idea crossed my mind too, when after Hana’s and Nagamichi’s deaths, Kaname’s hand was fine in the next chapter and again none explanation for that effect, as well … So there is room for relations …

My only reservation was that the first small signs on Kaname’s hand had started to shown right after Hana’s killing … >>>

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/31
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/33

>>> and also Aidou-dono made a remark about it … But when he lifted his hand to behead him, his hand was in a pretty good shape >>>

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/35

>>> so despite the fact that he was holding that sword all the time while was talking with Naga still his hand didn’t suffer from great damage. But after Nagamichi’s killing, within a few minutes his hand turned into pitch black >>>

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68/2

>>> and as you pointed out he flew away in his bats form, hence how much time passed till he met Ruka and Kain outside? Therefore the factor time doesn’t seem to play a role to this side effect on his hand … there must to be something else…

Also the lack of any info about a) the reason, b) their conversation which concluded to Naga’s consent for his death c) also Ruka’s and Kain’s consent, d) what exactly served his death … leaves an open door for far fetched theories … (aka our fave sport )

Juliet wrote: So I believe that he is putting up that act there deliberately, therefore his objective was to be seen and not to kill Aido-dono. And that gives the idea that perhaps he could transform his blood (Kurans’ trait also) and ask from Aido-Dono to consent with his (fake) murder. As I said it’s a long shot,

Yes … and to stretch more the theory that Nagamichi’s death wasn’t real but an illusion lol … the spot that in took place that incident was the “castle of dreams” … what if Hanadagi’s special power was to create illusions/hallucinations/dreams and a part of his power passed to Kaname by killing him, hence he had the ability to create an illusion for Naga’s death?

Ok enough with “crazy” theories back to “realism”…

@Sweet, it would be impossible for Kaname to know if Yuuki would follow him or if she would meet the hunters. But once they are close, its almost a certainty that he senses them approaching (as Yuuki made her way to Hanadagi’s castle almost sensing Kaname).

Yes I believe so too … since Yuuki could sense where Kaname went and drove Cross there it’s almost impossible that Kaname couldn’t sense her … So he knew and wanted to be seen or he did not care … I also think that he could “sense” all of them, cuz even Cross tried to track him but he was already far but Yuuki still could sense him for more time.

So since he knows and he executes Aido-dono, infront of her (while he could have done it sooner or immediately if Killing was the objective), he chooses to discuss and he chooses to be seen, risking his reputation, his image as good leader and Yuuki’s love. So I believe that he is putting up that act there deliberately, therefore his objective was to be seen and not to kill Aido-dono.

Perhaps we should wonder in what has Aidou’s dad murder served this far? And why wouldn’t just Hanadagi’s murder served these purposes?

Right … so since we do not know why he killed him, let’s see what he “gain”…

1. Uproar and more suspicions for him … cuz as it seemed from the comments afterwards; the death of Nagamichi had a bigger effect to the nobles and to hunters too. Nagamichi had a good reputation among vampires and hunters. Also he was Kaname’s ally and cooperator … at the meeting with the hunters he was accompanied from Naga too. So his killing ofc appears to be the most unjustified in the eyes of the whole world!
Cross in order to stop Yuuki to go after him uses Nagamichi’s killing to present Kaname as a different person than before … So this killing almost outweighs Hana’s killing … or at least has more gravity to put him in the category “dangerous vampire” …

2. Yuuki’s and Hanabusa’s “arrest” … since they were the witnesses of the murder and two persons very close to him, is an easy prediction … hence Yuuki would be safe and far away from him.

So there is no room for uncertainties … he knew that from his open-wide actions his reputation would go downhill. The question is doesn’t care or he seeks for it?
Judging from the way he killed Nagamichi and from his overall behaviour as I said before I tend to think that he’s aiming for it …

And one more side thought … until now all his moves served well Sara’s plan/goal … and again seems to exist another coindentity with Sara…
He is destroying his profile, viz make his come back to his previous position to seem almost impossible, hence more open the road for the throne, while Sara is aiming for the exact same thing for Yuuki … she wants to destroy Yuuki’s reputation as well! Hm … is a coincidence?

Until now the Kurans were the only reassurance for the co-existence but synchronously their stance/position/anti-vampire ability was like a magnet for all the tragedies that they suffer though the millennia … So is it possible to want to destroy that “legacy”?
What’s the meaning behind this short dialogue ????>>>

Hiou: “Why one of the Kurans the royal bloodline who wanted least to do with the disputes of the PBs …
Kaname: “Whatever it was it’s no longer there … I can no longer leave you all of you as you are ...”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/21


Or what if Sara succeeds to unnail Yuuki by making her seem unfit for the leadership? Then what?
Almost seems like he wants Sara to take the throne … while he is trying to secure humans safety … so could be???

Why is it such a big damn secret. This is really annoying. The fact that chapter 74 is called pureblood's motives and we have none for Kaname is some kinda joke? She's deliberately teasing us with giving us absolutely nothing. I feel like we've got lots of pieces, but we have no idea how big or complicated this puzzle is. She's held up a picture (kaien's theory), but it seems some of the pieces aren't going to fit.

@Kaien - yes, I think Kaien could have tried harder to ask questions. He can be...lax? His pretending not to hear Zero's comments is idiotic, what's the point of having these emphatic ideals if you can't argue with someone over them? He's just too passive about everything, until of course he needs to physically step-in. His defending Isaya here reminds me of his telling Zero he would stop him if he went after Yuki...but no trying to reason with him? o-k...

Perhaps we should wonder in what has Aidou’s dad murder served this far? And why wouldn’t just Hanadagi’s murder served these purposes?

Well, what do any of the murders accomplish beyond ruining his reputation and making him seem like a threat.

this reminds me of code geass where Lelouch has everyone unite and turn against him by oppressing everyone.

What is the biggest problem in VK? what do people complain about? As far as I can see, its the complacency of purebloods, they don't seem to care about anything but themselves, Sara is a prime example. maybe kaname's plan is to get people invested, off their ass and taking care of their own issues.

What’s the meaning behind this short dialogue ????>>>
Hiou: “Why one of the Kurans the royal bloodline who wanted least to do with the disputes of the PBs …
Kaname: “Whatever it was it’s no longer there … I can no longer leave you all of you as you are ...”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/21

my friend said to me that the "it" he is talking about is his reason. So it can be interpreted like
“Whatever the reason was [that kept me from interferring] the reason’s no longer there … I can no longer leave you all of you as you are ...”
I think this is do with why he chose slumber instead of carrying out his plan before he went into his eternal slumber.

this is so complicated >_____<

Or what if Sara succeeds to unnail Yuuki by making her seem unfit for the leadership? Then what?
Almost seems like he wants Sara to take the throne … while he is trying to secure humans safety … so could be???

lol and the funny thing is, I think, like the class president, sara just wants the title, she doesn't want the responsibility.

juliet wrote:@Sweet, it would be impossible for Kaname to know if Yuuki would follow him or if she would meet the hunters. But once they are close, its almost a certainty that he senses them approaching (as Yuuki made her way to Hanadagi’s castle almost sensing Kaname).

nina wrote:Yes I believe so too … since Yuuki could sense where Kaname went and drove Cross there it’s almost impossible that Kaname couldn’t sense her … So he knew and wanted to be seen or he did not care … I also think that he could “sense” all of them, cuz even Cross tried to track him but he was already far but Yuuki still could sense him for more time.

This seems to be more sound.. but this leaves me to another question, isn't it strange if he told Nagamichi to kneel down and close his eyes when he sensed them approaching, then he waited until Yuki and the gang were right at the entrance and in clear view of his crime, choosing the front of the staircase for a perfectly clear view, and chopped his head the moment Yuki was in, all for a spectacular show? more than that, lol wonder what they were doing when they waited for that moment.. (drinking tea? ) anyway its hilarious to think Kaname anticipating the right timing for that.

juliet wrote:And that gives the idea that perhaps he could transform his blood (Kurans’ trait also) and ask from Aido-Dono to consent with his (fake) murder.

I think Aido-dono really died
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/38
see Kaname's hand also gushed out blood after he killed him. that means the theory of the side effect of the sword was present there when he killed Nagamichi, which means he's alive when he was killed. I think Kaname resurrected him afterwards... Kaname's hand looks so suspicious. it turned black after such a small amount of time and for no reason. anyway I think there's a good explanation for all this..

juliet wrote:Perhaps we should wonder in what has Aidou’s dad murder served this far? And why wouldn’t just Hanadagi’s murder served these purposes?

good question. Aido-dono doesn't seem to fit Kaname's true goal.. it seemed like his appearance in the castle was not expected, because he only encountered Sara when he was leaving the Kuran mansion and decided to chase after her. So what if he didn't chase after her and went someplace else? I don't think he will go to the castle at that moment and I don't think he will become a sacrifice. So him witnessing Sara taking Hanadagi's heart, witnessing Hanadagi's resurrection and his blood being a tool for Hanadagi's full regeneration can all be reasons for his supposed "death".

which leads to another question. What's so important about this Hanadagi pureblood? why does Kaname seem to be so inclined watching over his revival or his movements ever since chapter 52? Why prevent anything related to the Hanadagi incident from leaking to the public? Other than being the "protector of the purebloods" and knowing Sara..what else does Hanadagi hold?? It was more important than Kaname's reputation and he was willing to forego all that for Hanadagi?

knightmare wrote:Why is it such a big damn secret. This is really annoying. The fact that chapter 74 is called pureblood's motives and we have none for Kaname is some kinda joke? She's deliberately teasing us with giving us absolutely nothing. I feel like we've got lots of pieces, but we have no idea how big or complicated this puzzle is. She's held up a picture (kaien's theory), but it seems some of the pieces aren't going to fit.

exactly. And also there's the "Sara VS Maria??" headline in chapter 73...but virtually led to nothing, they simply talked. Now its "Kaien VS Kaname??" for simply pointing swords lol I don't know what to say, we have an excciiting headline and meh content. maybe next time it will be "Isaya VS Kaname??" and they end up having tea together or playing chess
Also Sara won the election which is alarming considering she has bad intentions, but just for comedy purposes it seems to be pictured as a funny event for Yuki's part, Sara even passes the role of president to her, so the event overall had no significance except to mock Yuki's stupidity, which seemed like taking Zero's blood was totally useless. Its like one scene brings down another scene and then Hino builds up another one.. only to bring it down again?
now maybe Kain looks like he'll do something productive when he saw the blood tablets distribution, and it all feels like he's going to tell Kaname about it, but what if he actually gets curious and decides to join the crowd to get a sample of those? lol with Ruka not giving him blood he's probably hungry, and the tasty tablets are a good thing... he might even share it with Ruka so together they take it...
the buildup > the disappointment seems to be the ongoing trend in Hino's mind right now.

There are so many Holes and virtually no explanation so it seems like she's eating more than she can chew. When will this actually be solved? there's just too many things going on with too many troll scenes.

Why is it such a big damn secret. This is really annoying. The fact that chapter 74 is called pureblood's motives and we have none for Kaname is some kinda joke? She's deliberately teasing us with giving us absolutely nothing. I feel like we've got lots of pieces, but we have no idea how big or complicated this puzzle is. She's held up a picture (kaien's theory), but it seems some of the pieces aren't going to fit.

It was referred in kaien's speech that the motive is Yuuki...as he says to Zero that "Even if he is doing all this for Yuuki...". That's the only motive that I found expressed in the chapter and it is not obvious because the scene or dialogue is not that emphatic, is just a little line there that can also be overviewed.

Yes and by Killing all purebloods how is Yuuki helped? Nina made a good list there, showing that if that was his plan all along, then what about Sara? Or Touma? (he did not kill Touma as we saw). So I have no idea if Cross' here mind reading abilities are enough to cover the aspects of it.

What about the secrency? M...I think that Hino wants us to live the big mystery (not to tell you that if it stretches too much, it can also backfire to the dear author because the fans never stop thinking about it and if the reason she gives is not adequate enough...LOL)

Knightmare wrote:@Kaien - yes, I think Kaien could have tried harder to ask questions. He can be...lax? His pretending not to hear Zero's comments is idiotic, what's the point of having these emphatic ideals if you can't argue with someone over them? He's just too passive about everything, until of course he needs to physically step-in. His defending Isaya here reminds me of his telling Zero he would stop him if he went after Yuki...but no trying to reason with him? o-k...

agreed i think kaien is being too passive with everything that is going on. he needs to start asking some hard questions and doing everything he can to get the answers, not sit back and watch, which he seems to be doing. and your right he only steps out of his passiveness when he physically steps-in which he does without trying to reason first. jez the guy confuses me sometimes.

sweetsolace wrote:
exactly. And also there's the "Sara VS Maria??" headline in chapter 73...but virtually led to nothing, they simply talked. Now its "Kaien VS Kaname??" for simply pointing swords lol I don't know what to say, we have an excciiting headline and meh content. maybe next time it will be "Isaya VS Kaname??" and they end up having tea together or playing chess

lol!
Kaname: can you please pass the sugar?
Isaya: *picks up sugar bowl* here you are kaname. by the way its your turn.
Kaname: *looks down at chess board, piece moves* checkmate.

sweetsolace wrote:Also Sara won the election which is alarming considering she has bad intentions, but just for comedy purposes it seems to be pictured as a funny event for Yuki's part, Sara even passes the role of president to her, so the event overall had no significance except to mock Yuki's stupidity,

i was alarmed too how much sara won by in the election, though i suppose she is more a typical pureblood then yuuki. yuuki has no charisma or leadership qualities really, but the NC reformed beacuse of her and the vampires joined because of her, you would have thought more would be inclined to vote for her. the event did seem like sara was mocking yuuki. yuuki just knock her off the chair that will get rid of the smug grin!!!

sweetsolace wrote:the buildup > the disappointment seems to be the ongoing trend in Hino's mind right now.

There are so many Holes and virtually no explanation so it seems like she's eating more than she can chew. When will this actually be solved? there's just too many things going on with too many troll scenes.

your right sweet the scenes seem to go up and down like a rollercoaster. hino's made so many holes, i hope she can fill them all, some will have to be done soon i think. it leaves so many questions and little answers, also can be really confusing but it does keep us quessing and intrigued with what will happen next.

Right now we're all assuming his motive is a better life for Yuuki, but as you pointed out, killing them all isn't making a perfect world for her. He knows better than anyone how kind, compassionate and righteous a person Yuuki is (saying this from Kaname's pov only, cause I think Yuuki is far from that..), he wouldn't expect her to forgive him or go along with it. There has to be another reason behind all this, a reason so compelling that he's risking living without his love a second time.

Another point I'd like to discuss is that VK doesn't have a lead antagonist. So far, we only had mini bosses, and I doubt Sara is that awesome to be consider the endgame boss. Hino might be paving the way for Kaname to become one considering how the story is heading, mind you, not an evil antagonist, but one regardless, one that has a big purpose to fullfill, whether the actions are right or not.

I think narratively speaking, Kaname would make a better antagonist/endgame boss than Zero. This character from the beginning exudes a mysterious aura, couple with his past and his promise/plan with the hooded woman, it would not be a surprise for him to become one. After all, it will be lame to end VK with Sara. With kaname, it is exciting to see how ppl gonna stop the world's strongest vampire.