The ancestor theories

Kanaze-Chan wrote:

Admin wrote:

Kanaze-Chan wrote:Kaname says he is the 'progenitor' -- which is another fancy word for 'ancestor'. All I can say is that Yuuki may have a small clue as to who Kaname truly is, that he isn't her beloved older brother.

What do you mean "a small clue?" you've just risen my curiosity...

He says it in one of the chapters -- I can't remember which one -- but he says it and thinks Yuuki can't hear him.. or perhaps that she's known since changing into a vampire that he isn't really her 'Loving, Adoring and Protective Onii-sama' that she knew... That's just me

juliet wrote:

Kanaze-Chan wrote:

Admin wrote:

Kanaze-Chan wrote:Kaname says he is the 'progenitor' -- which is another fancy word for 'ancestor'. All I can say is that Yuuki may have a small clue as to who Kaname truly is, that he isn't her beloved older brother.

What do you mean "a small clue?" you've just risen my curiosity...

He says it in one of the chapters -- I can't remember which one -- but he says it and thinks Yuuki can't hear him.. or perhaps that she's known since changing into a vampire that he isn't really her 'Loving, Adoring and Protective Onii-sama' that she knew... That's just me

No I do not think that she know...if she knew she would go like Who are you? Why are you here? I am really wondering how she is going to face the fact that for a year now he is not telling her. Do you think that this may have a bad impact on their relationship?

Hrm.. Perhaps. We just have to wait and see, sadly >o>
M, I guess it depends and on what has been done in the past. But I either good or bad I believe that Yuuki is going to be shocked... :sSig_what:

juliet wrote:Now it's certain that Rido used the baby's blood and flesh? (if I got it right from the summary and comments) in order to awaken the ancestor because he wanted to control the strongest of all. So the theory that said that Rido was not interested in turning Kaname into a baby but interested in controlling the ancestor in his original form seems far more possible.
So how did he turned into a baby? I am stucked here. I was been wondering if it was possible since the ancestors body was so destroy and he possesed a lot of powers to change himself into a baby taking a new place in this world? Do you think that's possible? For the time being I can not think of another theory.

juliet wrote:We had an interesting discussion in Greek but I want to sum it up here and add a few points because it was interesting..thank you libra for suggesting this, you inspired me LOL...

Here is the scene where the ancestor dies in the furnace surrounded by the hunters. Kaname's clothes are black...
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-64-page-12.html

Chapter 52, Yuuki drinks from Kaname and Kaname remembers his past...



WE know that its his ancestor time due the clothes but certainly is not the time when the ancestor dies.
We've never seen before the Kuran mansion, yet we see it now with the Kuran crest at the door...this leads me to assume that these scene here can be years after the death of the ancestor, the walls around him have fallen, probably shattered by Kaname's agony, he is grieving someone.

So to whom does these crystals belong to? And what's the importancy of the mirror?

A mirror it appears again in chapter 64 in the middle of nowhere when kaname is able to see...Yuuki. Yuuki steps on him cracking him... (take notice that in Kaname's flashback, chapter 52 the mirror is also shattered).

What is again the importancy of the mirror in the middle of nowhere?



And finally



why do we see Yuuki's -Kaname's reflection in the mirror instead of seeing them? Yuuki's extended hand points to the mirror which has a cracked corner.

Any ideas or theories about mirrors and ancestors? Why is Hino giving us these kind of hints?

ShiroiYuki911 wrote:
Don't you think that, if you cut of the hair, and such and such, that she'd look a lot like Zero? Correct me if I'm wrong...and I probably am but...yeah.
This is probably just me being a little crazy again...I'm going to shut up now... sorry.

neosolaris12 wrote:I think above all else, the scenes with the broken mirror fascinate me the most, because it is one thing that has yet to be explained of Kaname's past.

Now back to the mirror. The concept of the mirror in Japanese mythology is that it represents "truth". So there must be a "truth" that we or Kaname can't access because the mirror is broken? Mirrors can also represent power and wisdom, as well as a link from the conscious to the unconscious world.

I want to agree with the other theorists that Yuuki may be the reborn ancestor woman, but somehow I feel that that is too, I don't know, obvious. If it were such, the story would be over. I feel that Hino is hiding something else that she's refusing to reveal to the public.

juliet wrote:

neosolaris12 wrote:I think above all else, the scenes with the broken mirror fascinate me the most, because it is one thing that has yet to be explained of Kaname's past.

Now back to the mirror. The concept of the mirror in Japanese mythology is that it represents "truth". So there must be a "truth" that we or Kaname can't access because the mirror is broken? Mirrors can also represent power and wisdom, as well as a link from the conscious to the unconscious world.

Oh that so much fascinates me? the truth? Look again in the picture with the mirron where both of them are...the strange is that Yuuki's finger the one that is infront of the mirror is stretched guiding us in looking into the image of the mirror-in the mirror though the same finger is not stretched. Could be a mistake or a guidance, ah so much fantasy that my mind can not take. Its so much of a fascinating story line, everything in VK seems unpredictable and unexpected.

I want to agree with the other theorists that Yuuki may be the reborn ancestor woman, but somehow I feel that that is too, I don't know, obvious. If it were such, the story would be over. I feel that Hino is hiding something else that she's refusing to reveal to the public.

LOl, you are right about being too obvious but I was thinking that when it was mostly expected it was when Kaname start revealing his past. Many readers up then (and me also I have to confess) where expecting that the ancestor might be revealed to be Yuuki. Then the ancestor that came had nothing to do with Yuuki (totally the opposite) and Hino surprised us and we lost all the clues (shoes, hair, dresses)...she had confused us enough with all these.
But now if she makes the revelation of Yuuki is not expected due to the ancestor's appearance.
Still Hino has left spaces and gaps in the story (how did Kurans became Kings? was Kaname the one who made the Kuran dynasty? because as Hino pictures Kaname now your theory about the crazy scientist sounds the only reasonable explanation) and so on that also permits us to make theories about it while others have completely forgot it.

Also she is chained, similar to those "contradictory" pictures that arose when Rido told Kaname whether he wanted to trap Yuuki forever or let her go. Are we seeing Kaname's desire through the mirror, perhaps a part of his unconscious self wants to keep Yuuki? (mirrors do signify that).

And why the side is cracked...mmm, maybe like Rido said, there are still contradictions to this desire. Hmm peculiar, very peculiar. I'm going to need more clues than this if I'm going to go into my scientist mode :suspect: :suspect:

And what that "something" is, whether its a way to defeat Sara or recover something from his past that will help defeat Sara, is what I'm most interested at the moment.

Akaruisama wrote:You are amazed me! I don't read the forum for 3 days and there are so much fascinating theories that I'm :sSig_what:

I think Kaname was first Vampire King for a long while . Because he was most probably the grandfather Vampire King Juuri was talking during the bonus story about the umbrella incident.

I think the reason of keeping so many misteries yet is because of the story not wanting to reveal yet who was Kaname's wife and Queen in the past ( not the hooded female pureblood lady ). The one which was the mother of Yuuki's grandparents . The woman I believe died prior to the scene Kaname was shown to be grieving over a broken mirror at the Kuran's manor . The reason of Kaname's despair . The reason of he wanting vengance . The reason of his slumber . The Vampire Queen , which during the story was never shown , nor mentioned .

But , yes , there are a lot of Kaname's past we had no idea yet . Things as simple which was the hooded female pureblood name . The composition of Kuran's generational tree . Or complicated as which are Kaname's original plans .

Yuuki traveling to the past . Knowing Kaname there . Becoming her mate in the past . And her being her own ancestress could be a possibility . The complicated thing here is when did Yuuki traveled to the past.

I can't get out from my head what was the original reason for the Kuran's to practice incest . I imagine Kaname was the first to do so . If Kaname's wife from the past was his daugther , she was the one to die prior his despair scene . But Kaname meting Yuuki during his past had to happen . The question here is when they met . If was before or after Kaname's wife death .

juliet wrote:
Here is the scene where the ancestor dies in the furnace surrounded by the hunters. Kaname's clothes are black...
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-64-page-12.html

Chapter 52, Yuuki drinks from Kaname and Kaname remembers his past...



WE know that its his ancestor time due the clothes but certainly is not the time when the ancestor dies.
We've never seen before the Kuran mansion, yet we see it now with the Kuran crest at the door...this leads me to assume that these scene here can be years after the death of the ancestor, the walls around him have fallen, probably shattered by Kaname's agony, he is grieving someone.

So to whom does these crystals belong to? And what's the importancy of the mirror?

A mirror it appears again in chapter 64 in the middle of nowhere when kaname is able to see...Yuuki. Yuuki steps on him cracking him... (take notice that in Kaname's flashback, chapter 52 the mirror is also shattered).

What is again the importancy of the mirror in the middle of nowhere?



And finally



why do we see Yuuki's -Kaname's reflection in the mirror instead of seeing them? Yuuki's extended hand points to the mirror which has a cracked corner.

Any ideas or theories about mirrors and ancestors? Why is Hino giving us these kind of hints?

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sweetsolace wrote: Also look at the place... he is in front of a door with a Kuran sign. it looks like the entrance of a mansion or the door leading to the great hall inside a castle... Im betting more its the entrance of a great hall because of the poles on the sides look like they're part of a collapsed column.

sweetsolace wrote: my theory: he lost someone and that's his wife..
possible assumption for the wife:
chapter60

that hair looks like yuki's style... but it's not yuki since we never saw her wearing a hood... yeah and this woman is also wearing a hood like the hooded woman. in Kaname's flashbacks purebloods are seen to be wearing long hoods.. so could it be possible that this woman is a pureblood? and why is she seen along yuki's comparison? probably she's the person kaname's talking about that he lost...and he developed his "contradictions" with yuki because of her???? Kaname's wife?

rumland wrote: As for the thing about him being all alone, there is a chance that the bloody rose is the cause of that, we have seen that it is a particuly nasty av weapon, when zero used it on the roof of cross academy it seemed to attack all the vampires there except yuki, even the night class vampires which dodged the vines. So if kaname did lose control of the bloody rose and it ended up killing his wife at the time then that is most defently a reason to dispair and a reason to go into an eternal slumber. If I killed the women I loved I wouldn't want to live anymore ether.

mariangie wrote: A interesting thing is : the picture of chapter 60 showing a Yuuki - alike woman with a hood , with her eyes covered presented at this forum was not the final pic for the tambukon version . At the book version , the picture of that girl was darkened and make blurried . Making difficult to see if tha hooded girl looks like Yuuki . Why Hino changed this scene ? Maybe she was showing a lot more information that she intended . ?????? If that girl was really Kaname's past wife ( and I thought since originally seen that scene she was ) ; why she looks so much as Yuuki ??????

mariangie wrote: If the girl is really Yuuki that travelled to the past . Ended staying there . Married Kaname and had offsprings with him is a consideration for explaining why the hooded girl of chapter 60 looks like Yuuki . The problem I see is there are too many plot holes to evidence this . Also , If that girl died before the scene of Kaname crying over the mirror , could be a way to prevent this to happen at the present ??????????? If that girl was Yuuki , discovers the truth and she could change the past ; will all the present events in V .K . would change also ????????? I think Hino would have a lot to explain if Yuuki was the past wife of Kaname because she traveled in time to the past .

mariangie wrote: I know it sound weird . Maybe I'm wrong . But if that girl is a Yuuki - alike with clear color eyes , the only explanation I can imagine for now is she was a daughter of Kaname with the hooded pureblood ancestress with braids . If she was Kaname's daughter and he make her his wife , it explain why only some Kurans could yield anti - vampire weapons . And the origin of Kuran's interbreeding .

mariangie wrote: I like to know why Kaname chose an eternal slumber instead of killing himself after his moment of great despair . I can imagine somehow he had to keep a little hope for something . Maybe he saw Yuuki in the past prior to his choice ???? Somehow he knew could meet her in his future ??????

rumland wrote: eternal slumber is the same as killing your self,

nina wrote:Two scenarios I could think:
a) He was chased out from his family due to his nature and isolates himself wandering around without purpose … or
b) his family was already passed away cuz they were humans and again Kaname started his roaming.

nina wrote:My impression is that Kaname and the ancestor lady didn’t have so close relationship. Perhaps they didn’t have the time for it, before she sacrificed her self.

“ The moment a small attachment was born inside me” … she sacrifice herself …
So I suppose they didn’t develop deep romantic feelings and that’s why I believe she wasn’t the female ancestor of Kurans lineage.

nina wrote:I think is the same door which leads to mausoleum where Kaname laid for many many ages.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-25/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-24/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-52342-17/vampire-knight/chapter-61.html

The same emblem is on Kaname’s grave …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-47679-29/vampire-knight/chapter-58.html

In fact I think the side of the door with the emblem is the exterior side whereas the inside hasn’t the emblem … here …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-6/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-8/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html

http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-25/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-24/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

nina wrote:A reasonable answer is that the hooded woman is the ancestor and Kaname is connecting her with Yuuki and his fears of losing her as it happened before, but as I said I have doubts.

Here a close image of the ancestor lady … she had braids lol.

nina wrote:Why he assumed she was from the future? Probably because of her outfit? If so that means he saw her exactly the way she is now. But why he had often such visions?

Could be he hoped for a change in vampire society? Could be he hoped that the change would come through the years/centuries and he wouldn’t never had to awake to proceed with his plan?
Or he had a little hope that someday he could meet those warm eyes from his vision ??? !!!

mariangie wrote:If the girl is really Yuuki that travelled to the past . Ended staying there . Married Kaname and had offsprings with him is a consideration for explaining why the hooded girl of chapter 60 looks like Yuuki . The problem I see is there are too many plot holes to evidence this . Also , If that girl died before the scene of Kaname crying over the mirror , could be a way to prevent this to happen at the present ??????????? If that girl was Yuuki , discovers the truth and she could change the past ; will all the present events in V .K . would change also ????????? I think Hino would have a lot to explain if Yuuki was the past wife of Kaname because she traveled in time to the past .

rumland wrote:As for the thing about him being all alone, there is a chance that the bloody rose is the cause of that, we have seen that it is a particuly nasty av weapon, when zero used it on the roof of cross academy it seemed to attack all the vampires there except yuki, even the night class vampires which dodged the vines. So if kaname did lose control of the bloody rose and it ended up killing his wife at the time then that is most defently a reason to dispair and a reason to go into an eternal slumber. If I killed the women I loved I wouldn't want to live anymore ether.

The “key” is why Kaname saw and heard her? Also in which form he saw her? The vision was from the near future >>> he saw her as a hooded girl (ch. 60 icon?) or from the distant future as Yuuki with the school uniform????

however if the hooded woman still remembers what the meaning of her human family was... then what happened with kaname's? hmm he seemed to have forgotten his name and he made no mention of his family before.

the door in chapter 52 doesn't seem to look like it's coming from the end of the hallway like the one shown in the present time... the poles sticking out everywhere and the crumbled walls look like the door was part of the room instead of a hallway. However the pattern and style of the door in both times are similar... Maybe the place was constructed again?

Could be he hoped for a change in vampire society? Could be he hoped that the change would come through the years/centuries and he wouldn’t never had to awake to proceed with his plan?
Or he had a little hope that someday he could meet those warm eyes from his vision ??? !!!