Yuki's relationship with Zero (chapter 73-74)

Knightmare wrote:

juliet wrote:
http://www.mangastream.to/vampire-knight-chapter-79-page-18.html

why in Yuuki's mind are the first images important for their relationship?
there new start is based on her first encounter/the beggining of a friendship with Zero? where are the crucial romantic scenes between them?

Because its the beginning of their relationship and a very important moment. Starting over usually means going back to the beginning. Its not clear at all what yuuki is thinking, since there are other things going on, but perhaps as she's thinking she needs to start all over again in winning over Zero. The first time she met Zero, she bulldozed her way in because he needed help and she needed to help someone, but this time she's going at Zero's pace.

so how is Hino representing "change", "romantic evolution" to their relatioship? or isn't she?

Not change, progress. Their relationship will always have friendship as a major element to it, so change from that isn't an option. But the relationship was not *just* friendship though it should have been (Yuuki was in love with someone else), but because of the ambiguity, Yuuki was not closed off to the idea of something more.

Their relationship will always have friendship as a major element to it, so change from that isn't an option.

Zeki008 wrote:
I think that what she only feel for kaname is Admiration and respect and so she think that it is love.

Zeki008 wrote:I think that she really is in love with Zero. But is just confused. Because she has been thinking that she is in love with kaname for all of her life.

I think that what she only feel for kaname is Admiration and respect and so she think that it is love.

When zero tried to kiss her she has been thinking about to the point that she wanted to avoid zero. Unlike when kaname kissed her it's like it's nothing. Since she treat him like his brother and they are like that since she was a little girl.

sweetsolace wrote:

Zeki008 wrote:
I think that what she only feel for kaname is Admiration and respect and so she think that it is love.

so. Even her heart reacts to admiration and respect? Lol. She skips a beat whenever she sees him, her heart reacts so badly at times she couldn't breath, and when he asked her to be a vampire she hardly hesitated saying yes, hmm I find it hard to believe such strong feelings were just Admiration and respect.. or it could carry on for 10 years and more, even after she lost her memories. I think she does respect him, she calls him -sama, but that's just a part of the whole of her feelings.

Admiration and respect can change for a person, if what they "admire or respect" is lost in that person they start to lose that feeling. For example if Yuki "admired" Kaname for his long hair and he cut it short, she would lose that admiration; or if Yuki "admired/respected" Kaname because he's kind and gentle, and she saw him do otherwise, that admiration will be lost.

But love never changes, it accepts and becomes part. She had seen atrocities he had committed, even the infamous death of Aido-dono, but even that didn't make her change her mind about him. Admiration wouldn't take her this far into accepting him for everything he has done and what she had seen from him. She even wanted to become a sinner for him. Even though she knew Kaname was hiding things from her, this didn't prevent her from loving him, instead she wanted to know his past and everything he does, instead of rejecting them.

Zero on the other hand, rejected her the moment she turned into her true self and even to the point of declaring he would kill her. His hatred was to that extent that his "love for her" didn't overcome it. One can even argue if his feelings for Yuki were simply "admiration of her humanity", reference to the example I gave above, Zero began to hate her when she stopped being "human" hence he probably only "loved/admired" Yuki's human side.

Zeki008 wrote:I think that she really is in love with Zero. But is just confused. Because she has been thinking that she is in love with kaname for all of her life.[/i][/b][b][i]I think that what she only feel for kaname is Admiration and respect and so she think that it is love.

When zero tried to kiss her she has been thinking about to the point that she wanted to avoid zero. Unlike when kaname kissed her it's like it's nothing. Since she treat him like his brother and they are like that since she was a little girl.

sweetsolace wrote:so. Even her heart reacts to admiration and respect? Lol. She skips a beat whenever she sees him, her heart reacts so badly at times she couldn't breath, and when he asked her to be a vampire she hardly hesitated saying yes, hmm I find it hard to believe such strong feelings were just Admiration and respect.. or it could carry on for 10 years and more, even after she lost her memories. I think she does respect him, she calls him -sama, but that's just a part of the whole of her feelings.

Admiration and respect can change for a person, if what they "admire or respect" is lost in that person they start to lose that feeling. For example if Yuki "admired" Kaname for his long hair and he cut it short, she would lose that admiration; or if Yuki "admired/respected" Kaname because he's kind and gentle, and she saw him do otherwise, that admiration will be lost.

But love never changes, it accepts and becomes part. She had seen atrocities he had committed, even the infamous death of Aido-dono, but even that didn't make her change her mind about him. Admiration wouldn't take her this far into accepting him for everything he has done and what she had seen from him. She even wanted to become a sinner for him. Even though she knew Kaname was hiding things from her, this didn't prevent her from loving him, instead she wanted to know his past and everything he does, instead of rejecting them.

Zero on the other hand, rejected her the moment she turned into her true self and even to the point of declaring he would kill her. His hatred was to that extent that his "love for her" didn't overcome it. One can even argue if his feelings for Yuki were simply "admiration of her humanity", reference to the example I gave above, Zero began to hate her when she stopped being "human" hence he probably only "loved/admired" Yuki's human side.

aya-chan wrote:

Zeki008 wrote:I think that she really is in love with Zero. But is just confused. Because she has been thinking that she is in love with kaname for all of her life.[/i][/b][b][i]I think that what she only feel for kaname is Admiration and respect and so she think that it is love.

When zero tried to kiss her she has been thinking about to the point that she wanted to avoid zero. Unlike when kaname kissed her it's like it's nothing. Since she treat him like his brother and they are like that since she was a little girl.

Really?
1.If you think yuuki feel only admiration and respect for kaname, then you're free to live in your world full of respect and admiration.

2. when did yuuki avoided zero after his attempt? when I think at "to avoid" I think at not talking with a person, running away from that person, to ignore that person.
did yuuki not talk with zero, run away from him or ignore him? I think the answer is no.

3. each time when kaname x yuuki kissed, yuuki blushed, even after a year. is this a "nothing" feeling?

sweetsolace wrote:so. Even her heart reacts to admiration and respect? Lol. She skips a beat whenever she sees him, her heart reacts so badly at times she couldn't breath, and when he asked her to be a vampire she hardly hesitated saying yes, hmm I find it hard to believe such strong feelings were just Admiration and respect.. or it could carry on for 10 years and more, even after she lost her memories. I think she does respect him, she calls him -sama, but that's just a part of the whole of her feelings.

Admiration and respect can change for a person, if what they "admire or respect" is lost in that person they start to lose that feeling. For example if Yuki "admired" Kaname for his long hair and he cut it short, she would lose that admiration; or if Yuki "admired/respected" Kaname because he's kind and gentle, and she saw him do otherwise, that admiration will be lost.

But love never changes, it accepts and becomes part. She had seen atrocities he had committed, even the infamous death of Aido-dono, but even that didn't make her change her mind about him. Admiration wouldn't take her this far into accepting him for everything he has done and what she had seen from him. She even wanted to become a sinner for him. Even though she knew Kaname was hiding things from her, this didn't prevent her from loving him, instead she wanted to know his past and everything he does, instead of rejecting them.

Zero on the other hand, rejected her the moment she turned into her true self and even to the point of declaring he would kill her. His hatred was to that extent that his "love for her" didn't overcome it. One can even argue if his feelings for Yuki were simply "admiration of her humanity", reference to the example I gave above, Zero began to hate her when she stopped being "human" hence he probably only "loved/admired" Yuki's human side.

Totally agree with you.
When yuuki found out kaname killed shizuka and the council, she accepted him despite everything. moreover she wanted to be taint to.
When kaname told her he's not her brother, she told him *before seeing his past* her feelings for him won't change, she knows just one kaname. Moreover, after she saw his past she wanted to start over with him, hence she accepted him.

While yuuki accepted the person she loves, zero couldn't do the same when he found out she's a pureblood. His hate for purebloods overcome his love, hence hatred bigger than love.

This was one of them . ( chapter 49 , viz ed . ):

Kaname : " You're being quiet . I've been making you walk for quite a while in this mountain underpass ... tired ?"

Yuuki : " It was a lot more tiring sitting in the car the way here . I'm not as weak as you think . "

Yuuki (thinking ): " Whenever he looks at me with those eyes ... I feel my heart skip a beat . "

Yuuki : " It's just ... I don't know what I should talk about ."

Yuuki ( thinking ) :" I realize I'm different from how I was ten years ago ... and it makes me a little unconfortable . "

Kaname : " hold hands with you ... like this right now ... To be honest I don't really know what I'm supposed to say either . I'm already doing everything I can to try to keep you physically here ... for now . You don't have to try and hide it . I know that ... half your heart is still connected to him ... but you're here right now ... and that's enough for me . Yuuki ...? You're being too kind again . "

Yuuki : It can't be enough . I'm not giving you anything ... I'm already so carefree because I didn't remember anything . "

Kaname : " I did tell you ... that was exactly what Father , Mother and I wanted for you . "

Yuuki ( thinking ) : " ... troubling him like a child again ... "

Kaname : " I know . But for now on ... Please don't lie to yourself ... not in front of me anyway . Yuuki . Look at me . Forgive me for being so blunt . It's fine . You spoke the truth . But you forgotten something important ... I am a wounded ... starving vampire ...I fear losing my self - control and doing something cruel to you ... It scares me . I'm being honest . I too don't want lies to accumulate between us , Yuuki . Yuuki ... I'm the one who took Shizuka's life and powers . We're here ... and I ... made full use of the connection between you and Kiryu to erradicate Rido ... so I could obtain the freedom to truly protect you . Do you want to want to go in ? This is the house where you were born . I would rather you enter the house from the front entrance and not using an underground passage like this ...but there are watchful eyes above ...and difficulties could arise . "

Yuuki : " Because Zero and I killede uncle Rido together ? We left the Academy before we were able to talk to Headmaster Cross... "

Kaname : " Ah... So you helped Zero . But no , that's not the reason , Yuuki . It's because ... I killed all the members of the Senate . You're not surprised at what I say anymore ... Do you know why I'm telling all this ? I want to know your feelings ... Yuuki. MY HANDS ... ARE FAR MORE TAINTED THAN YOU THINK . CAN YOU STAND THESE HANDS TOUCHING YOU EVERY DAY ? Seiren , Are you here ? "

Seiren : " I'm here ... my master . "

Kaname : " Please take Yuuki to her room to rest . "

Yuuki ( thinking ) : " My current feelings are a mixture of sadness and anger . "

Kaname : " Yes... "

Seiren : " Please ... come this way . "

Kaname : " But since I've decided to live countless years with you ... I wanted you to know my sins . Even if I cannot touch you ... Just having you by my side is enough . "

Yuuki( thinking ) : " What am I doing ? Ah ... All can I do ... is make him sad . "

Kaname : " Yu..."

Yuuki : " I don't mind ... If you're tainted ! Then taint me too ... "

Yuuki ( thinking ) : " What kind of world ...has he been forced to face all alone ? "

Yuuki : " I loved ... these hands ."

Kaname kissed Yuuki .

Kaname : " Yuuki ... the way you looked at me just now ... those eyes will allure a vampire ..."

Yuuki : " I too have committed a sin ... for which I can't make amends ... "

( Yuuki thinking ) : " My beloved has committed sins for my sake ... so I will be there for him too . "

Yuuki : " If your sins have caused you to fall from grace ... Then I want to descend to the bottom with you ... "

Kaname : " Yuuki ... "

Yuuki : " Yes... "

Kaname : " Vampires ... can only quench their thirst by drinking the blood of the one they love . "

Yuuki : " Yes... "

Kaname ( thinking ) : " How many countless nights ... did I spend in vain ? I have finally got hold of the girl I love , and with whom I will be spending millions of nights . "

ambi9942* wrote: while i agree that yuki loves kaname more than just a brother but as a lover, zero never stated that he actually *hated* yuki. http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/16 here he even stated that he never once felt betrayed by her. yes zero does hate purebloods and vampires but i dont think he *hates* yuki.

ambi9942* wrote:
i dont know if i would agree with you on the zero hating yuki thing. while i agree that yuki loves kaname more than just a brother but as a lover, zero never stated that he actually *hated* yuki. http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/16 here he even stated that he never once felt betrayed by her. yes zero does hate purebloods and vampires but i dont think he *hates* yuki. even if zero stated that he would one day kill her, zero had still said that the only blood that he desired was yuki's .http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-22/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html and kaname had stated that a vampires thirst can only truely be quenched by the blood of person they love. i dont think that you can hate someone you love even if you try to hide it. ya'know?

aya-chan wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:what do you think?

Based on chapter 73-74 revelations, is it friendship or romance?

For me its always been friendship between them and this chapter just clarified it.
There was nothing strong enough to indicate romance between them as it was not mutual and Zero's the only one who loves Yuki.

Agree. I always saw their relationship just friendship. I know zero love/loved her but yuuki always saw him like a brother - zero is like a brother to me.

Analogy for biting scene:

I don't know if I have to find this post amazing ore crave for chocolate
Milka chocolate (100gr) (expensive)= kaname
another chocolate (30 gr) (cheap) = zero

Now imagine this:
You went outside to do jogging. After one hour you realise you have a low blood sugar. You want to eat something sweat, like your fav chocolate (milka 100gr).
But unfortunatelly you realise you didn't take enough money with you to buy it, but you have money to buy another one, smaller and cheaper.
You will buy the cheaper one even if it isn't the one you want. for a short while your blood sugar will rise and you will feel ok, until next time, but maybe then you can buy your desire chocolate, you can't have enough of it.

Conclusion:
- not having kaname around, yuuki was satisfied with the other alternative for her hunger. yuuki took just a bit from zero's blood, enough to feel ok and do her job as kuran.