Who do you think Yuki loves more: Kaname or Zero?

First topic message reminder :

I have been wondering who yuki loves more.
Yuki's feelings for Kaname: a real love or a brotherly love?
Yuki's feelings for Zero: a real love or just a pure sympathy?


Though Im already decided on who yuki loves more, I still want to hear your opinions.

Believe me when I say both boys suffered equally. The level of sensitivity to pain of each boy varies in order of affection that a person has for one of them.

Kaname suffers more than Zero.Zero suffers more than Kaname. There are biased points here.

Li.llium wrote:Believe me when I say both boys suffered equally. The level of sensitivity to pain of each boy varies in order of affection that a person has for one of them.

Kaname suffers more than Zero.Zero suffers more than Kaname. There are biased points here.

Personally i can not compare Kaname's pain or suffering to Zero....Kaname was the ancestor...from the perspective of time, just time solely that they have spend in pain or loneliness, the numbers can not be compared.

We are talking about Kaname that had forgotten his own name...and his origins..taking it from the beginning of kaname's story, Hino blows you with his suffering...and he is here now ten thousand years after....how can this be compared?

Zero saw his parents killed in front of him.
He was turned into a level-e. He always lives with the possibility of killing someone he loves in a fit of madness. He is the worst level that exists. He ate his brother. He lost beloved person too and Yuki had chosen Kaname .Zero lost everything he loves.He will die, inevitably, being murdered by someone who loves him. This issue is still present in his life.Then, it brings suffering. All this in four/five years. Not to mention things that I do not remember.

Time is something that counts in favor of Zero and Kaname ,both. Kaname, to be suffering for a long time. Zero, because he had suffered many losses in a short time.

When you say this things can not be compared. I see that this argument is something that is based on your preference for Kaname. It's not something I see as fair in history, really.

Thinking overall, out of our conversation: Yuki will not choose who suffered more, for God's sake. She will choose who she loves. And that person, to me, is Kaname. Suffering does not bring love. Brings compassion or pity. I think it's sad to see it being used as an argument by some fans (not you juliet)

Zero saw his parents killed in front of him.
He was turned into a level-e. He always lives with the possibility of killing someone he loves in a fit of madness. He is the worst level that exists. He ate his brother. He lost beloved person too and Yuki had chosen Kaname .Zero lost everything he loves.He will die, inevitably, being murdered by someone who loves him. This issue is still present in his life.Then, it brings suffering. All this in four/five years. Not to mention things that I do not remember.

This is an discussion that could go on forever, literally how we estimate pain and suffering is to our apprehension…but

Kaname indeed experience so heavy loneliness that Zero has never met. Once Kaname had also parents, name…house, origins…he lost them.

Kaname saw an important person for him (a person that had given him scope) to be killed in front of his eyes…

Kaname uplifted the weight of forming the first hunters, despite his recent loss, who ironically do not even know or remember who he is…this is a very obscure frame, yet he tastes this too.

Recent history

Kaname lost both haruka and yuuri who had given him a new home and were his providers…saw them killed, especially Haruka in front of his eyes.
Kaname was the one that saved yuuki from death putting his own body as a shield when Rido came to take her…and despite he defended her, he had to live without her..
He had to sustain losing Yuuki (his bond to the present) and having to surpass obstacles to see her when she was living with Cross…
Kaname lived with the people that hated him, that had ruined his life, and yet he sustained everything for another human being to be safe…he could simply walk away…from everything…

Kaname had to delve into sin to kill Shizuka in order to save Zero due to his own weakness to protect Yuuki at that time from Rido…
And he is doing the same thing now, as it seems to fulfill his wish for a safer world for her…this is not something that he enjoys, he lives away from her, ditching himself in purpose…how much suffering can that be for him? Right now?

twice in the past and also now he is willing to sacrifice his own life for her> an act that for someone to do it must have passed many boundaries and must have suffered that much, that has reached the limits of his tolerance. And also at his ancestor times he had felt ready to quit from this world entering the slumber…
so in Kaname there is a repeated pattern of suffering of founding and losing, much heavier, much more repeatable than it is to Zero…

When you say this things can not be compared. I see that this argument is something that is based on your preference for Kaname. It's not something I see as fair in history, really.

well if it is fair history to compare a young boy that is turned to a vampire and experiences his parent’s and brothers death while the girl that he loved chooses another one with a man who has written the history of the hunters with his personal sadness, and never gave up the one that he loved despite how many sad years, people, sins, deaths, he had to suffer to sustain for her to be safe, then it is as you say a totally subjective matter…

I can not compare Kaname to Zero in general > for me it’s like comparing history (because Kaname puts a tremendous effort into working, planning, forming, sacrificing even people and his own flesh and happiness in there to make the hunters, to save yuuki, to get rid of the council that wanted dead the co-existence, to eliminate all dangers) with a wheel of the history that happened to have a tragic incidence at a given time in his life, but not being his life.

and speaking more generally that's how all tragic heroes start; they lose their familly and something happens that changes them, are they of the same range? and are all of the same weight? let me add another dimension to that...what happens before but also after is important...

Zero before had a loving familly, Zero after has still a home to protect him, hunters that are with him, a place to belong to...

Kaname before...? before which event? before losing Haruka and Yuuri? before losing the female ancestor? before forgetting his name? before deciding to enter slumber? before what?

Kaname after what? which event? this is history; A chronological record of events....by definition, not an event...the amount of weight that you as reader are willing to give to an event is subjective...but history itself is not. if you are willing to throw the same emotional weight on four years vs a series of events that dramatized in a repeated pattern and formed a history of ten thousand years..the conclusion is yours...what is history though can not be doubted.

(and let's not forget that there are still issues in Kaname's story that we do not know- the kuran dynasty...who? how? there is space for even more tragic events to be added if Hino wishes to...

In Kaname’s case we are not talking about four years, or ten, or twenty, or…we are talking life…a life full of events that unfortunately bring us here…that’s why now he reaches the extremes, because he has experienced too long despair…something that also had led him in the decision to end his life once…

Zero is not the same subject; and his decisions are rooted mostly on his own personal misery, Kaname’s decision are rooted mostly on Yuuki’s, a line that also Yuuki confirms at the script where she says that : I am the root of all…so she has reached the point where she knows.

Yuki will not choose who suffered more, for God's sake. She will choose who she loves. And that person, to me, is Kaname. Suffering does not bring love. Brings compassion or pity. I think it's sad to see it being used as an argument by some fans (not you juliet)

Yes and I do agree with you, its good the fact that Hino first potrayed yuuki to be in love with her savior and far later added to this the picture the fact that Yuuki learns about Kaname’s suffering. But as I mentioned above, the most scripts do want the heroine to end up with the man that has given her the most, I guess that’s why they put and the certain hero to behave as such, he is to earn a prize at the end…
Don’t know if Hino shall go that hill…but for me if she is to end it with Zeki, then Zero must surpass Kaname or he can not now take Yuuki’s love for free…its logical.
And a thing that has to do a lot with it is time. How long VK shall continue so that Hino will add flesh in Zeki?

By Lillium :

( Zero )He was turned into a level-e.

A small correction . Zero has never become a Level B . He is a Level D vampire . Kaname offered his blood before Zero make the change to stabilize him for a while . Until Zero could finish his work as human shield for Yuuki against Rido .

For becoming a Level E ; a ex - human vampire has to lost the remains of his / her humanity . Becoming a bersek beast . Without any control of his will. Living only for their instints and desires . Zero doesn't fit the definition yet .

By Lillium :

Yuki will not choose who suffered more, for God's sake. She will choose who she loves. And that person, to me, is Kaname. Suffering does not bring love. Brings compassion or pity. I think it's sad to see it being used as an argument by some fans (not you juliet)

Agree 100% . The one you need to proof this point is not me . But to the huge group of Zekis who use this argument as main defense for their shipping .

The top 4 Zeki arguments : ( in random order )

1- " I love Zero because he is the best , handsome , tsundere alive ... "

2- " Zero deserves Yuuki more because he has suffered too much ... "

3- " I hate Kaname . "

4- " I want Kaname dead . "

I'm sure if Zero knew Yuuki only choses him out of pity . He would prefer to kill himself with Bloody Rose . He is too proud to accept being second plate .

***************

A random point about the plot :

During the 1st arc , Zero tried to get Yuuki out of his life . During the 2nd arc is Kaname who is trying to get Yuuki out of his life .

When Zero met Yuuki for first time . That was a little hours after he was bitten by Shizuka's . He discovered he fall in love with Yuuki . But at the same time discovewred he was going to become a vampire . So he tried as much as he could to make Yuuki out of his life as possible . Of course without success . The main reason was because Zero knew that when a vampire fall in love with a human . Eventually the vampire would kill his / her human lover . because the vampire will want to devour the love feelings from his human lover until he drained all his / her blood .

After Yuuki returned to being a pureblood princess . The vampire killing his lover issue was no more a reason for Zero to be apart from Yuuki . New issues arrived with the new changes to the Zeki dinamic for the second arc .

In Kaname's case ; during the 1st arc , Kaname's main worry was to protect Yuuki from other persons / enemies . ( Ex. Rido ) . He has no need to protect Yuuki from him endangering her .

But after the start of the second arc . Kaname discovered Rido continues to be bond to him . Now he had visions of Yuuki dying by Rido that Kaname couldn't stop . Worse , Kaname most probably think if Yuuki dies is his entire fault . So now is Kaname the one trying to make Yuuki hate him so much that she never consider being with him . Leaving her for protection even when he loves her the most .

mariangie wrote:

By Lillium :

( Zero )He was turned into a level-e.

A small correction . Zero has never become a Level B . He is a Level D vampire . Kaname offered his blood before Zero make the change to stabilize him for a while . Until Zero could finish his work as human shield for Yuuki against Rido .

For becoming a Level E ; a ex - human vampire has to lost the remains of his / her humanity . Becoming a bersek beast . Without any control of his will. Living only for their instints and desires . Zero doesn't fit the definition yet .

By Lillium :

Yuki will not choose who suffered more, for God's sake. She will choose who she loves. And that person, to me, is Kaname. Suffering does not bring love. Brings compassion or pity. I think it's sad to see it being used as an argument by some fans (not you juliet)

Agree 100% . The one you need to proof this point is not me . But to the huge group of Zekis who use this argument as main defense for their shipping .

The top 4 Zeki arguments : ( in random order )

1- " I love Zero because he is the best , handsome , tsundere alive ... "

2- " Zero deserves Yuuki more because he has suffered too much ... "

3- " I hate Kaname . "

4- " I want Kaname dead . "

I'm sure if Zero knew Yuuki only choses him out of pity . He would prefer to kill himself with Bloody Rose . He is too proud to accept being second plate .

***************

A random point about the plot :

During the 1st arc , Zero tried to get Yuuki out of his life . During the 2nd arc is Kaname who is trying to get Yuuki out of his life .

When Zero met Yuuki for first time . That was a little hours after he was bitten by Shizuka's . He discovered he fall in love with Yuuki . But at the same time discovewred he was going to become a vampire . So he tried as much as he could to make Yuuki out of his life as possible . Of course without success . The main reason was because Zero knew that when a vampire fall in love with a human . Eventually the vampire would kill his / her human lover . because the vampire will want to devour the love feelings from his human lover until he drained all his / her blood .

After Yuuki returned to being a pureblood princess . The vampire killing his lover issue was no more a reason for Zero to be apart from Yuuki . New issues arrived with the new changes to the Zeki dinamic for the second arc .

In Kaname's case ; during the 1st arc , Kaname's main worry was to protect Yuuki from other persons / enemies . ( Ex. Rido ) . He has no need to protect Yuuki from him endangering her .

But after the start of the second arc . Kaname discovered Rido continues to be bond to him . Now he had visions of Yuuki dying by Rido that Kaname couldn't stop . Worse , Kaname most probably think if Yuuki dies is his entire fault . So now is Kaname the one trying to make Yuuki hate him so much that she never consider being with him . Leaving her for protection even when he loves her the most .

yeah and for breaking his bond with rido he has to die and he wants to die from yuuki's hands but its really so sadistic and thats why i think kaname will die.yuuki has to kill him.but there should be more reasons for him killing all purebloods.

Hello.. I have not really wrote on this forum in a very long time.. haha, so please be kind..

So to answer the main question of who does yuki love more in my point of view...
um i believe she loves them same but in different ways..
She obviously loves Kaname romantically, but right now shes having these like second guesses.. To me shes just restraining herself from falling and giving in. As she basically said in the last chapter..
If you think in Yuki's justice brain, what Kaname is doing is horrible. So knowing her, shes not backing down this time on capturing Kaname.. plus with the help of Zero, if she starts to fall I can see Zero telling her to snap out of it.
From the recent chapter its hard for me to really express what Im seeing.. I just know that she does love Kaname she is just restraining herself by thinking of all the things she honestly thinks is bad that he has done. And the two main ones that are certainly keeping her determine are the thought of Ruka and Zero's sufferings..
So on Yuki loving Zero.. :
Well right now we can see Zero does love her romantically still. And from what I see is that Yuki is in a way reacting back.. but like little things.
( im afraid of Im going to get shot down for that.)
My reasons are for when Zero was so angry and hurt at Kaname telling him about his plan things, when the bloody rose was transforming Yuki landed her hand on his arm and held her hand to his face with tears in her eyes. And when he hugged her very emotionally she didn't get angry or felt awkward..
Then there is were she asks him to stay by his side now.. and she apologizes for her stupidity.
( something like that im basing this off of memory..)
So now she wants to stay on his side, and she is most certainly i believe is aware of his romantically feelings for her now.. its just we cant get in her head for these thoughts about zero until recently.. so maybe things will be more clear in the next chapter coming up..
Then there is were she admits that Zero is apart of her heart..
then theres more..
But im tired So ill end it here.
To me she loves them both but in different ways.
And that's all really.

whenever i see Zero and Yuuki together i sense more like a "friendship relashionship" from Yuuki's view than a "romantic relashionship"-it sounds more romantic when Yuuki's with Kaname(for me at least)
she felt pity for Zero when Kaname told his plans...
he hugged her and she only accepted because of this pity thing,well if you think upright when your friend is hurt and needs some strenght i think it's ok the hugging thing,his actions were "only hugging"not "kissing",very different from Kaname(whenever he felt sad he was kissing her lips or sucking her blood passionaly)
it's way very different from Zero(whos only a teenager when you compare KanamexZero experience in life,Kaname suffered more and was hurt even more than Zero in my point of view,he lived 10,000 yearsand Zero only 17years,you can't compare this!
if you feel pity for Zero loosing his parents you have to consider that Kaname ALSO LOST HIS PARENTS!and his old love,and his friends,it's way too compreensive to give more points for Kaname!

lililovelilica wrote:whenever i see Zero and Yuuki together i sense more like a "friendship relashionship" from Yuuki's view than a "romantic relashionship"-it sounds more romantic when Yuuki's with Kaname(for me at least)
she felt pity for Zero when Kaname told his plans...
he hugged her and she only accepted because of this pity thing,well if you think upright when your friend is hurt and needs some strenght i think it's ok the hugging thing,his actions were "only hugging"not "kissing",very different from Kaname(whenever he felt sad he was kissing her lips or sucking her blood passionaly)
it's way very different from Zero(whos only a teenager when you compare KanamexZero experience in life,Kaname suffered more and was hurt even more than Zero in my point of view,he lived 10,000 yearsand Zero only 17years,you can't compare this!
if you feel pity for Zero loosing his parents you have to consider that Kaname ALSO LOST HIS PARENTS!and his old love,and his friends,it's way too compreensive to give more points for Kaname!

there is definitely a bond between zero,yuuki and kaname that only kaname knows about.i think...

In my personal opinion, I believe that Yuuki's heart truly belongs to Zero. No matter how many times she sucked Kaname's blood, she would still be starving and then the one time she sucked just a little bit of Zero's blood, she became sated finally. Just being around Zero is enough for her to feel strong.

Dragonsrose15 wrote:In my personal opinion, I believe that Yuuki's heart truly belongs to Zero. No matter how many times she sucked Kaname's blood, she would still be starving and then the one time she sucked just a little bit of Zero's blood, she became sated finally. Just being around Zero is enough for her to feel strong.

Woman are always so strange,one day we want one piece of the cake and the other day we choose the pie,so that's Yuuki real face guys,she can't decide on who she wants,but if it were me i would decide on Kaname!
He's mine!

lililovelilica wrote:

Dragonsrose15 wrote:In my personal opinion, I believe that Yuuki's heart truly belongs to Zero. No matter how many times she sucked Kaname's blood, she would still be starving and then the one time she sucked just a little bit of Zero's blood, she became sated finally. Just being around Zero is enough for her to feel strong.

Woman are always so strange,one day we want one piece of the cake and the other day we choose the pie,so that's Yuuki real face guys,she can't decide on who she wants,but if it were me i would decide on Kaname!
He's mine!

thats a very cheap thing if yuuki is like that.

It would be very cheap of Yuuki to choose either guy without proper development and closing the door to the other guy, so I'm really hoping Hino doesn't end up doing something cheap to the LT.

Dragonsrose15 wrote:It would be very cheap of Yuuki to choose either guy without proper development and closing the door to the other guy, so I'm really hoping Hino doesn't end up doing something cheap to the LT.

yes absolutely.

Dragonsrose15 wrote:In my personal opinion, I believe that Yuuki's heart truly belongs to Zero. No matter how many times she sucked Kaname's blood, she would still be starving and then the one time she sucked just a little bit of Zero's blood, she became sated finally. Just being around Zero is enough for her to feel strong.

Then I suggest you re read the manga and see that Yuuki's mind "calmed down only", after drinking from Zero.. this notion is different from being "fully satisfied". Do remember that Yuuki was actually suffering from hunger by Kaname's absence. And even with her words, "she had never thought of obtaining blood from Zero" while she "wants to latch to Kaname's throat and devour his blood and even his life". Those are Yuuki's thoughts for each guy you know. I just hope, it will remind you.

And are the recent chaps not enough development for you? Just what did she do and say when she finally saw Kaname? ---> didn't she unconsciously walk towards him forgetting that Zero was actually in front of her and calling Kaname on her mind as "my Kaname"..

Certainly, the story has yielded a very obvious answer, right?

chacile wrote:

Dragonsrose15 wrote:In my personal opinion, I believe that Yuuki's heart truly belongs to Zero. No matter how many times she sucked Kaname's blood, she would still be starving and then the one time she sucked just a little bit of Zero's blood, she became sated finally. Just being around Zero is enough for her to feel strong.

Then I suggest you re read the manga and see that Yuuki's mind "calmed down only", after drinking from Zero.. this notion is different from being "fully satisfied". Do remember that Yuuki was actually suffering from hunger by Kaname's absence. And even with her words, "she had never thought of obtaining blood from Zero" while she "wants to latch to Kaname's throat and devour his blood and even his life". Those are Yuuki's thoughts for each guy you know. I just hope, it will remind you.

And are the recent chaps not enough development for you? Just what did she do and say when she finally saw Kaname? ---> didn't she unconsciously walk towards him forgetting that Zero was actually in front of her and calling Kaname on her mind as "my Kaname"..

Certainly, the story has yielded a very obvious answer, right?

some zekis are saying that after she said my kaname then she told zero she won't do stupid things anymore and that they are both on same side.i don't understand anything because hino changes sides in every chapter.just before ch 83 zero was on sara's side and suddenly he changes sides and allied with yuuki.i don't believe in sides anymore in the manga.

kanamekuranlover wrote:
some zekis are saying that after she said my kaname then she told zero she won't do stupid things anymore and that they are both on same side.i don't understand anything because hino changes sides in every chapter.just before ch 83 zero was on sara's side and suddenly he changes sides and allied with yuuki.i don't believe in sides anymore in the manga.

I don't really see any reason to be confused about, and I also don't rely on what Zekis are saying. I've had grimaced on the terrible scanlations scattered across different manga sites. I have my own reliable source, and that's why I don't waver on my conviction and get confused in the haywire of ideas. I believe that most of the people and fans online are suffering from lousy translations, that's why things are getting confusing for them (specially the reliance from indirect translations which often led to the true meaning being lost along the way --- presuming that it yields to better translation when in fact it's way too far from the original meaning. Before, we make it a way of taunting the opposing sides when we say "you're reading a different manga" but right now, it may sounds funny but some are literally "reading a different manga version".^^' and limited knowledge is very scary as we all know, because confused people are so easy to be led around by some die hard fans whose eyes are very well clouded by bias that they even cannot appreciate the other side of the story except those "that they wanted to see".

It is sad because this makes the story so difficult for other people.. those who read the wrong (twisted) version will have really hard time connecting the story, which in itself is already very mysterious and a mind twister. Though I cannot relate on your confusion, i still feel for you.. and I hope, your confusion will be cleared sooner..

chacile wrote:

kanamekuranlover wrote:
some zekis are saying that after she said my kaname then she told zero she won't do stupid things anymore and that they are both on same side.i don't understand anything because hino changes sides in every chapter.just before ch 83 zero was on sara's side and suddenly he changes sides and allied with yuuki.i don't believe in sides anymore in the manga.

I don't really see any reason to be confused about, and I also don't rely on what Zekis are saying. I've had grimaced on the terrible scanlations scattered across different manga sites. I have my own reliable source, and that's why I don't waver on my conviction and get confused in the haywire of ideas. I believe that most of the people and fans online are suffering from lousy translations, that's why things are getting confusing for them (specially the reliance from indirect translations which often led to the true meaning being lost along the way --- presuming that it yields to better translation when in fact it's way too far from the original meaning. Before, we make it a way of taunting the opposing sides when we say "you're reading a different manga" but right now, it may sounds funny but some are literally "reading a different manga version".^^' and limited knowledge is very scary as we all know, because confused people are so easy to be led around by some die hard fans whose eyes are very well clouded by bias that they even cannot appreciate the other side of the story except those "that they wanted to see".

It is sad because this makes the story so difficult for other people.. those who read the wrong (twisted) version will have really hard time connecting the story, which in itself is already very mysterious and a mind twister. Though I cannot relate on your confusion, i still feel for you.. and I hope, your confusion will be cleared sooner..

exactly honey i have no reliable source so please clear my doubt.what is actual zeki and yume relationship is right now?
the manga is really confusing me.i don't understand whats going on and then these zeki vs yume comments.

chacile wrote:I don't really see any reason to be confused about, and I also don't rely on what Zekis are saying. I've had grimaced on the terrible scanlations scattered across different manga sites. I have my own reliable source, and that's why I don't waver on my conviction and get confused in the haywire of ideas. I believe that most of the people and fans online are suffering from lousy translations, that's why things are getting confusing for them (specially the reliance from indirect translations which often led to the true meaning being lost along the way --- presuming that it yields to better translation when in fact it's way too far from the original meaning. Before, we make it a way of taunting the opposing sides when we say "you're reading a different manga" but right now, it may sounds funny but some are literally "reading a different manga version".^^' and limited knowledge is very scary as we all know, because confused people are so easy to be led around by some die hard fans whose eyes are very well clouded by bias that they even cannot appreciate the other side of the story except those "that they wanted to see".

It is sad because this makes the story so difficult for other people.. those who read the wrong (twisted) version will have really hard time connecting the story, which in itself is already very mysterious and a mind twister. Though I cannot relate on your confusion, i still feel for you.. and I hope, your confusion will be cleared sooner..

Well said, and I totally agree with you. That's why I buy the official volumes, I don't trust those online translations at all. I also hate having to refer to them when I debate because that's the one everyone reads. And due to the fact I have to wait for the English volumes to be published, I have no choice but to read the online translations to keep up with the story.

kanamekuranlover wrote:some zekis are saying that after she said my kaname then she told zero she won't do stupid things anymore and that they are both on same side.i don't understand anything because hino changes sides in every chapter.just before ch 83 zero was on sara's side and suddenly he changes sides and allied with yuuki.i don't believe in sides anymore in the manga.

Why do you care what the Zekis are saying? You seem to let their opinions affect you, and you shouldn't. You have your own mind after all, just read the manga and form you own opinions.

ButterflyWingsx wrote:

chacile wrote:I don't really see any reason to be confused about, and I also don't rely on what Zekis are saying. I've had grimaced on the terrible scanlations scattered across different manga sites. I have my own reliable source, and that's why I don't waver on my conviction and get confused in the haywire of ideas. I believe that most of the people and fans online are suffering from lousy translations, that's why things are getting confusing for them (specially the reliance from indirect translations which often led to the true meaning being lost along the way --- presuming that it yields to better translation when in fact it's way too far from the original meaning. Before, we make it a way of taunting the opposing sides when we say "you're reading a different manga" but right now, it may sounds funny but some are literally "reading a different manga version".^^' and limited knowledge is very scary as we all know, because confused people are so easy to be led around by some die hard fans whose eyes are very well clouded by bias that they even cannot appreciate the other side of the story except those "that they wanted to see".

It is sad because this makes the story so difficult for other people.. those who read the wrong (twisted) version will have really hard time connecting the story, which in itself is already very mysterious and a mind twister. Though I cannot relate on your confusion, i still feel for you.. and I hope, your confusion will be cleared sooner..

Well said, and I totally agree with you. That's why I buy the official volumes, I don't trust those online translations at all. I also hate having to refer to them when I debate because that's the one everyone reads. And due to the fact I have to wait for the English volumes to be published, I have no choice but to read the online translations to keep up with the story.

kanamekuranlover wrote:some zekis are saying that after she said my kaname then she told zero she won't do stupid things anymore and that they are both on same side.i don't understand anything because hino changes sides in every chapter.just before ch 83 zero was on sara's side and suddenly he changes sides and allied with yuuki.i don't believe in sides anymore in the manga.

Why do you care what the Zekis are saying? You seem to let their opinions affect you, and you shouldn't. You have your own mind after all, just read the manga and form you own opinions.

That's why I read as many versions as I can get . When each one differs in a scene translation . Something has to be wrong . Too bad I can't read Japanese . The nearest is if I can get a friend to help me translate some lines as favor .

Of couurse I prefer official translations . Even so occasionally one has some mistakes . So what I can expect from an non - official one ?

This is from a girl who had to depend on translations all her life . There are ways to guess if some line is mistranslated . The easiest is if the obvious speaker of the line says something that doesn't make sense . For example using a wrong name for a character ( Usually only amusing . ) . Or synthaxis order ( Very danguerous if changed the structure of the sentence much . Or changing who is the speaker or to who he / she is talking . ( Could be critical to misunderstand the plot . ) Or if the action drawn in the scene correspond to whatever thing the speaker is talking about . ( Prone to confuse the reader if too different . )

Another problem results when an translation derives from a first translation . Some things can be lost in translation during the second or third time . Specially if the sentence has some idioms that are used in the original culture and not easy changed for some equivalent in the second language .

But even for experts . If you don't know the original language yourself . At the same time have the original source available . There are mistranslations that escape easy. Ex. if a word is wrong translated , but the sentence sounds okay in the context . It could be something stupid as changing one word for another that is not the same . But not so far away . Ex. : " I like potatoes ." Instead of "I like sweet potatoes ." Change the context of the sentence . Ex. A guy talking about how beautiful a girl is and saying : " I love your hare . " Instead of I love your hair . "

But the worst is when a translator mistranslated on purpose to make the readers think as he / she does . Instead of the original meaning intended .


I had see a lot of crazy mistakes over online translations of V. K. As for this chapter 84 . Where the English translation has some speech of Yuuki talking about herself as " He " Too bad to try to use one of these translations to defend anything . I remember one from chap. 66 ( the start over scene ) where some sentences speaked by Yuuki were passed as Kaname's lines . Making a ton of fans misunderstand whatever Yuuki was talking about .


*********

On topic :


This part is something I already posted in the far past . A prediction that is already happening . But to remind some fans who are a little mixed up with the recent events .

Yuuki would ally with Zero . Not because she loved him the best . But because she has promised this in the past . At the same way , Yuuki would be against Kaname, the man she loves the most . Not because she decided to thrown her love away . But because she wanted to stop him from his dark road of perdition .

This means Yuuki has not changed her way of seing things in the recent chapters . Nor that Yuuki is shifting her feelings as changing shoes . Actually she is true to her believes . She has never promise Zero to be her lover . But she had promised him to be her ally no matter what . Nor even if he considered Yuuki his enemy . In the case of Kaname , she has the desire to be his equal . To trust him . Even if she knows he is not what he Yuuki believed he was . Basically to have faith in the man she loves . But she needs answers from Kaname . She needs to make him understand his actions are wrong . So she needs to confront him if he doesn't allow her to ask him in a civilized way .

If Yuuki doesn't care about Kaname . She would just thrown the towel and kill him .
Or just let him do as he wanted . Or worse , Yuuki going to Zero and saying to him that she now is his . But she is taking the step road . To save Kaname .

i honestly do not know!!! i never knew but i hope that we will find out before vampire knight ends!

I wanted a happy Yume end . Too hopeful for my part . Instead I get a " Zeki by default " end and a Yume " star - crossed lovers " tragic and romantic. ( in the literary sense . Ex . Dracula love story ) . The " Pureblood Bloody Love " tale of love , tears , blood and darkness Yuuki and Kaname lived .

Hino intended to give us that Yuuki loved both men . In her own different way . One as the storm , passionate , desire and tormented love who could only give her darkness . One tranquil and normal love who could keep her in the light .

Yuuki's life purpose at the end become : to make Zero happy in life and Kaname happy on death .

After thinking more , now I see why we got so little about the Zeki final couple end . This will sound kind of strange . But here I try to explain .

The love story Hino intended to narrate during her whole plot was Yuuki and Kaname' tragic vampic love story . How Kaname become her world . Her alpha and her omega . Her beginning and her end . How Kaname sacrificed himself for her lover to allow her to be happy . How Yuuki sacrificed herself to make Kaname happy . How they loved so much each other . But could only be happy together for a very brief part of their existence . How Kaname saved Yuuki at the start of the story and how Yuuki saved Kaname at the end of the story . How their love transcend time after being separated for a whole thousand years .

Anything else was secondary plot . Including Zero part in the LT .

What Yuuki really was narrating to Yori was how she discovered love . How she believed that love was out of her reach . How she discovered she was reciprocated . When she though her happiness with that man was at her grasp . How she discovered that man committed sins for her sake . How the man left her because he feared to hurt her by his actions . How she spend following this man to try to make him return to her . How he hide and hurt her to try to kept her out of his life . Due to his desire to see her happy as human and die to atone for his sins . How she discovered his lies . How she forgive him . How she ended wanting to die to save him . How she give her body and soul to him as her farewell before she believed she will die for him . How he accepted her love with a night of pure passion and sex as his farewell before his ultimate sacrifice for her and humanity . How she ended failing to all her promises to be his equal , save him and protect him . How he end sacrificing himself and let her in the care of the other man he knew loved her as much as him . How the girl mourn him and accept to fulfill the wish of her lover to be happy with the other man who loved her . And at last , how the girl , now an older woman choose to die by giving her own heart ( literary ) and her soul ( the butterfly light guide ) to give the man she loved the most the happiness he never had and she did in the past . As her last way to tell him he was the one who matters the most in her life . Even if they only share a brief time physically together . They always will spend their hearts and souls together .

This is the reason we got almost none information about the Zeki pair end . After Kaname dying . Yuuki accepting to follow Kaname last wish for her ; there wasn't too much to tell to complete the Yume love story . Except how she ended her life to save him .

How Yuuki and Zero lived after Yuuki's tragic lover died for her is another story . It wasn't supposed to be part of the main VK plot . A story that Hino didn't planned to give us . ( A Zeki love story bonus would be nice , but improbable . ) Because it wasn't part of the narrative of the Yume tragic love story . This is why we only get that minimal information about Yuuki achieved happiness with Zero during their years together . Because the only real information we needed to know was that Zeki pair fulfill Kaname's last final wish . And the insinuation that Yuuki did got pregnant from Yume last night together and had a daughter product of their love .

Yes , I know I got to be thrown with everything , sinks and all . Because what I'm saying is Zero and Zeki were second fiddle to the Yume tragic Pureblood Bloody Love vampiric romantic tale . Because the story only told us the Zeki love parts which were relevant to the main Yume love story . The ones which affected how she and Kaname interacted with each other .

This crazy rant is not saying Yuuki never love Zero ( she did in her own way ) . Not is saying Zero wasn't important to Yuuki ( He was . After all , they marry and spend most of their lives together . Had a family and loved each other . Got as happy as they could . ) Only that the main purpose of Vampire Knight story was to tell Yume love story , not the Zeki love one . That's why the lack of data about how Zero and Yuuki spend their life together .

Why the story ended with a " Zeki by default " end ?

Because Yuuki would never choose to go to Zero if Kaname was alive . Nor Yuuki would accept becoming Zero's mate unless Kaname wished and bless Yuuki and Zero to be together as they both live in light , Because no matter how terrible and toxic Kaname and Yuuki's love was , Yuuki alone would never wanted to let go off from Kaname's side . Because he was his most important and loved person in the world . No matter what crazy stuff Kaname did to her . Because the one who truly chose for Yuuki was Kaname . He sacrificed himself as the way to make sure he was out of Yuuki's options for mate . Because Yuuki's only options were to be alone for eternity ( her greatest fear ) or fulfill Kaname's last wish and try to love and be happy with Zero . Yuuki did needed someone to cry her shoulder on and care for her . To prevent loneliness as happened when HW sacrificed herself and let Kaname alone in the world . After all , even if Yuuki considered her feelings for Zero were mostly friendship , she could learn to reciprocate Zero's love for her as her way to make him happy . But only if she knew there was no way for her to get Kaname to her side alive .

Hmmm what a question!? More difficult can't be? xD

Well let's see.

Kaname: Yuuki loves Kaname a lot, she was, is and always will be in love with him, and love him more that ever. I don't really think that Yuuki ever loved Kaname as her brother. Of course when she was a small girl she did love him as a brother for sure but after living 10 years with him as a human, when she became vampire again she SURELY couldn't feel the "brotherly part" and after the memories she saw, she more sure then didn't love him as a brother but as a fiance. Kaname and Yuuki share a bound of pure real love.

Zero: What can I say about Zero... I think that Yuuki loves him as a friend, as a "brother" because they lived together four 4 years, it is a long time and as a best-male-friend who she can share everything. Like someone she shares something special, that if you add the special bonds vampires' have can be confussed as romantic/lover love.


Well that is what I think.

mariangie wrote:I wanted a happy Yume end . Too hopeful for my part . Instead I get a " Zeki by default " end and a Yume " star - crossed lovers " tragic and romantic.  ( in the literary sense . Ex . Dracula love story ) . The  " Pureblood Bloody Love " tale of love , tears , blood and darkness Yuuki and Kaname lived .

Hino intended to give us that Yuuki loved both men . In her own different way . One as the storm , passionate , desire and tormented love who could only give her darkness . One tranquil and normal love who could keep her in the light .

Yuuki's life purpose at the end become : to make Zero happy in life and Kaname happy on death .

After thinking more , now I see why we got so little about the Zeki final couple end . This will sound kind of strange . But here I try to explain .

The love story Hino intended to narrate during her whole plot was Yuuki and Kaname' tragic vampic love story . How Kaname become her world . Her alpha and her omega . Her beginning and her end . How Kaname sacrificed himself for her lover to allow her to be happy . How Yuuki sacrificed herself to make Kaname happy . How they loved so much each other . But could only be happy together for a very brief part of their existence . How Kaname saved Yuuki at the start of the story and how Yuuki saved Kaname at the end of the story . How their love transcend time after being separated for a whole thousand years .

Anything else was secondary plot . Including Zero part in the LT .

What Yuuki really was narrating to Yori was how she discovered love . How she believed that love was out of her reach . How she discovered she was reciprocated . When she though her happiness with that man was at her grasp . How she discovered that man committed sins  for her sake . How   the man left her because he feared to hurt her by his actions . How she spend following this man to try to make him return to her . How he hide and hurt her to try to kept her out of his life . Due to his desire to see her happy as human and die to atone for his sins . How she discovered his lies . How she forgive him . How she ended wanting to die to save him . How she give her body and soul to him as her farewell before she believed she will die for him . How he accepted her love with a night of pure passion and sex as his farewell before his ultimate sacrifice for her and humanity . How she ended failing to all her promises to be his equal , save him and protect him . How he end sacrificing himself and let her in the care of the other man he knew loved her as much as him . How the girl mourn him and accept to fulfill the wish of her lover to be happy with the other man who loved her . And at last , how the girl , now an older woman choose  to die by giving her own heart ( literary ) and her soul ( the butterfly light guide ) to give the man she loved the most the happiness he never had and she did in the past . As her last way to tell him he was the one who matters the most in her life . Even if they only share a brief time physically together . They always will spend their hearts and souls together .

This is the reason we got almost none information about the Zeki pair end . After Kaname dying . Yuuki accepting to follow Kaname last wish for her ; there wasn't too much to tell to complete the Yume love story . Except how she ended her life to save him .

How Yuuki and Zero lived after Yuuki's tragic lover died for her is another story . It wasn't supposed to be part of the main VK plot . A story that Hino didn't planned to give us . ( A Zeki love story bonus would be nice , but improbable . ) Because it wasn't part of the narrative of the Yume tragic love story . This is why we only get that minimal information about Yuuki achieved happiness with Zero during their years together . Because the only real information we needed to know was that Zeki pair fulfill Kaname's last final wish . And the insinuation that Yuuki did got pregnant from Yume last night together and had a daughter product of their love .

Yes , I know I got to be thrown with everything , sinks and all . Because what I'm saying is Zero and Zeki were second fiddle to the Yume tragic Pureblood Bloody Love vampiric romantic tale . Because the story only told us the Zeki love parts which were relevant to the main Yume love story . The ones which affected how she and Kaname interacted with each other .

This crazy rant is not saying Yuuki never love Zero ( she did in her own way  ) . Not is saying Zero wasn't important to Yuuki ( He was . After  all , they marry and spend most of their lives together . Had a family and loved each other . Got as happy as they could . ) Only that the main purpose of Vampire Knight story was to tell Yume love story , not the Zeki love one . That's why the lack of data about how Zero and Yuuki spend their life together .

Why the story ended with a " Zeki by default " end ?

Because Yuuki would never choose to go to Zero if Kaname was alive . Nor Yuuki would accept becoming Zero's mate unless Kaname wished and bless Yuuki and Zero to be together as they both live in light , Because no matter how terrible and toxic Kaname and Yuuki's love was , Yuuki alone would never wanted to let go off from Kaname's side . Because he was his most important and loved person in the world . No matter what crazy stuff Kaname did to her . Because the one who truly chose for Yuuki was Kaname . He sacrificed himself as the way to make sure he was out of Yuuki's options for mate . Because Yuuki's only options were to be alone for eternity ( her greatest fear ) or fulfill Kaname's last wish and try to love and be happy with Zero . Yuuki did needed someone to cry her shoulder on and care for her . To prevent loneliness as happened when HW sacrificed herself and let Kaname alone in the world . After all , even if Yuuki considered her feelings for Zero were mostly friendship , she could  learn to reciprocate Zero's love for her as her way to make him happy . But only if she knew there was no way for her to get Kaname to her side alive .

I AGREE MOST OF YOUR OPINION HERE1
But Yuuki didn't loved Zero ,it was kinda strange liking him,she only ended up with him cause Kaname wished that for her happiness,but her happiness was to be with Kaname for all eternity,she stated many times that he was the begining of her life and that she loved him,loved him so much it was painfull at the same time to accept all of his sins and people he killed and made to suffer,but she accepted this man for her life,that's why Hino made them to sleep together,to state that the man she chose is kaname,the same was as japanese games,kinda like shuffle and the anime too there's only one route,and Yuuki chouse Kaname's route for her life,all along!
 
after all this 2 months i realized that if it was me in her shoes i would do the same,i would sacrifice my life to save the person i most love in my life,i wanted him to be happy and walk free in this world,even without me he would be okay since he was alive,he would *exist*.
Hino only made the zeki's believe there was some kind of relashionship of love between Zero and Yuuki,but she was routing Kaname and Yuuki love all the volumes of the manga,you can see she wanted a tragic pure and real eternal love between KanamexYuuki,Yume for the WIN! 

as yuuki said;"-He suffered so much pain and faced darkness only to protect me,it was all for me,for my sake,all this LOVE and PAIN,for me,i can't help wanting him,i want this man's blood,if you want it you can have all of him,can i still be with you forever?"

i picked those lines from what she said and i'm not lying here,he really loves Yuuki,more than the HW,and Yuuki loved him more than anyone else in the world,all this manga is about Yume love,so i can't be angry with Hino cause she gave me 5 years of YUME love,and because of that i could surpass the death of my father,so i can only say thanks to her for not killing kaname and for giving me a Yume moment,a Yume ending,she became the butterfly to stay with him,so romantic! 
I'm sorry to say this to you Zeki fans,but yuuki only stayed with Zero for PITY!

wich only means;Kaname is first choice and RULES THIS MANGA FORVER!

mariangie wrote:I wanted a happy Yume end . Too hopeful for my part . Instead I get a " Zeki by default " end and a Yume " star - crossed lovers " tragic and romantic.  ( in the literary sense . Ex . Dracula love story ) . The  " Pureblood Bloody Love " tale of love , tears , blood and darkness Yuuki and Kaname lived .

Hino intended to give us that Yuuki loved both men . In her own different way . One as the storm , passionate , desire and tormented love who could only give her darkness . One tranquil and normal love who could keep her in the light .

Yuuki's life purpose at the end become : to make Zero happy in life and Kaname happy on death .

After thinking more , now I see why we got so little about the Zeki final couple end . This will sound kind of strange . But here I try to explain .

The love story Hino intended to narrate during her whole plot was Yuuki and Kaname' tragic vampic love story . How Kaname become her world . Her alpha and her omega . Her beginning and her end . How Kaname sacrificed himself for her lover to allow her to be happy . How Yuuki sacrificed herself to make Kaname happy . How they loved so much each other . But could only be happy together for a very brief part of their existence . How Kaname saved Yuuki at the start of the story and how Yuuki saved Kaname at the end of the story . How their love transcend time after being separated for a whole thousand years .

Anything else was secondary plot . Including Zero part in the LT .

What Yuuki really was narrating to Yori was how she discovered love . How she believed that love was out of her reach . How she discovered she was reciprocated . When she though her happiness with that man was at her grasp . How she discovered that man committed sins  for her sake . How   the man left her because he feared to hurt her by his actions . How she spend following this man to try to make him return to her . How he hide and hurt her to try to kept her out of his life . Due to his desire to see her happy as human and die to atone for his sins . How she discovered his lies . How she forgive him . How she ended wanting to die to save him . How she give her body and soul to him as her farewell before she believed she will die for him . How he accepted her love with a night of pure passion and sex as his farewell before his ultimate sacrifice for her and humanity . How she ended failing to all her promises to be his equal , save him and protect him . How he end sacrificing himself and let her in the care of the other man he knew loved her as much as him . How the girl mourn him and accept to fulfill the wish of her lover to be happy with the other man who loved her . And at last , how the girl , now an older woman choose  to die by giving her own heart ( literary ) and her soul ( the butterfly light guide ) to give the man she loved the most the happiness he never had and she did in the past . As her last way to tell him he was the one who matters the most in her life . Even if they only share a brief time physically together . They always will spend their hearts and souls together .

This is the reason we got almost none information about the Zeki pair end . After Kaname dying . Yuuki accepting to follow Kaname last wish for her ; there wasn't too much to tell to complete the Yume love story . Except how she ended her life to save him .

How Yuuki and Zero lived after Yuuki's tragic lover died for her is another story . It wasn't supposed to be part of the main VK plot . A story that Hino didn't planned to give us . ( A Zeki love story bonus would be nice , but improbable . ) Because it wasn't part of the narrative of the Yume tragic love story . This is why we only get that minimal information about Yuuki achieved happiness with Zero during their years together . Because the only real information we needed to know was that Zeki pair fulfill Kaname's last final wish . And the insinuation that Yuuki did got pregnant from Yume last night together and had a daughter product of their love .

Yes , I know I got to be thrown with everything , sinks and all . Because what I'm saying is Zero and Zeki were second fiddle to the Yume tragic Pureblood Bloody Love vampiric romantic tale . Because the story only told us the Zeki love parts which were relevant to the main Yume love story . The ones which affected how she and Kaname interacted with each other .

This crazy rant is not saying Yuuki never love Zero ( she did in her own way  ) . Not is saying Zero wasn't important to Yuuki ( He was . After  all , they marry and spend most of their lives together . Had a family and loved each other . Got as happy as they could . ) Only that the main purpose of Vampire Knight story was to tell Yume love story , not the Zeki love one . That's why the lack of data about how Zero and Yuuki spend their life together .

Why the story ended with a " Zeki by default " end ?

Because Yuuki would never choose to go to Zero if Kaname was alive . Nor Yuuki would accept becoming Zero's mate unless Kaname wished and bless Yuuki and Zero to be together as they both live in light , Because no matter how terrible and toxic Kaname and Yuuki's love was , Yuuki alone would never wanted to let go off from Kaname's side . Because he was his most important and loved person in the world . No matter what crazy stuff Kaname did to her . Because the one who truly chose for Yuuki was Kaname . He sacrificed himself as the way to make sure he was out of Yuuki's options for mate . Because Yuuki's only options were to be alone for eternity ( her greatest fear ) or fulfill Kaname's last wish and try to love and be happy with Zero . Yuuki did needed someone to cry her shoulder on and care for her . To prevent loneliness as happened when HW sacrificed herself and let Kaname alone in the world . After all , even if Yuuki considered her feelings for Zero were mostly friendship , she could  learn to reciprocate Zero's love for her as her way to make him happy . But only if she knew there was no way for her to get Kaname to her side alive .

Great post, I think it summarizes everything about VK that I wanted to tell and share, especially the bold part but always felt so lazy and perhaps drawn back to say.

And this also summarizes a tragic love where the one was supposed to die and sacrifice about the other's happiness in order for them to reach the light and get out of the dark forest.

At least as how Hino pictures it and as I perceive it; but still in my mind at least you have to live with the paradox; how a man is the end and the start of your world, but still not to be able to live happily ever after by his side? - this is common logic, but not Hino's logic, as she follows another path, presenting happiness and love to be two different things after all, where sometimes one has to sacrifice his personal happiness and feelings to offer to another one salvation.

Kaname did it for Yuuki / Yuuki did it for Kaname

The overall taste that she left me was that since they all got out to the light at the end, it simple could not be any other way. Kaname's salvation was away of that despair and bloody society, and free of his tragic memories, otherwise he could not go on.

Yuuki's salvation was the light, carefree human world where she could still live happy moments next to Zero who also loved.

It was only through that unbreakable and eternal love she had for Kaname that she could offer him such a future. And this summarizes also their tragic love that offered to both of the light with their separate but for the same cause sacrifices.

So yes, this is also my impression of Hino's plot there, no matter how she develops it or which meanings she fails to convey example co-existence, bla...bla...and her inconsistencies, but I have already stated my opinion about this.

juliet wrote:

mariangie wrote:I wanted a happy Yume end . Too hopeful for my part . Instead I get a " Zeki by default " end and a Yume " star - crossed lovers " tragic and romantic.  ( in the literary sense . Ex . Dracula love story ) . The  " Pureblood Bloody Love " tale of love , tears , blood and darkness Yuuki and Kaname lived .

Hino intended to give us that Yuuki loved both men . In her own different way . One as the storm , passionate , desire and tormented love who could only give her darkness . One tranquil and normal love who could keep her in the light .

Yuuki's life purpose at the end become : to make Zero happy in life and Kaname happy on death .

After thinking more , now I see why we got so little about the Zeki final couple end . This will sound kind of strange . But here I try to explain .

The love story Hino intended to narrate during her whole plot was Yuuki and Kaname' tragic vampic love story . How Kaname become her world . Her alpha and her omega . Her beginning and her end . How Kaname sacrificed himself for her lover to allow her to be happy . How Yuuki sacrificed herself to make Kaname happy . How they loved so much each other . But could only be happy together for a very brief part of their existence . How Kaname saved Yuuki at the start of the story and how Yuuki saved Kaname at the end of the story . How their love transcend time after being separated for a whole thousand years .

Anything else was secondary plot . Including Zero part in the LT .

What Yuuki really was narrating to Yori was how she discovered love . How she believed that love was out of her reach . How she discovered she was reciprocated . When she though her happiness with that man was at her grasp . How she discovered that man committed sins  for her sake . How   the man left her because he feared to hurt her by his actions . How she spend following this man to try to make him return to her . How he hide and hurt her to try to kept her out of his life . Due to his desire to see her happy as human and die to atone for his sins . How she discovered his lies . How she forgive him . How she ended wanting to die to save him . How she give her body and soul to him as her farewell before she believed she will die for him . How he accepted her love with a night of pure passion and sex as his farewell before his ultimate sacrifice for her and humanity . How she ended failing to all her promises to be his equal , save him and protect him . How he end sacrificing himself and let her in the care of the other man he knew loved her as much as him . How the girl mourn him and accept to fulfill the wish of her lover to be happy with the other man who loved her . And at last , how the girl , now an older woman choose  to die by giving her own heart ( literary ) and her soul ( the butterfly light guide ) to give the man she loved the most the happiness he never had and she did in the past . As her last way to tell him he was the one who matters the most in her life . Even if they only share a brief time physically together . They always will spend their hearts and souls together .

This is the reason we got almost none information about the Zeki pair end . After Kaname dying . Yuuki accepting to follow Kaname last wish for her ; there wasn't too much to tell to complete the Yume love story . Except how she ended her life to save him .

How Yuuki and Zero lived after Yuuki's tragic lover died for her is another story . It wasn't supposed to be part of the main VK plot . A story that Hino didn't planned to give us . ( A Zeki love story bonus would be nice , but improbable . ) Because it wasn't part of the narrative of the Yume tragic love story . This is why we only get that minimal information about Yuuki achieved happiness with Zero during their years together . Because the only real information we needed to know was that Zeki pair fulfill Kaname's last final wish . And the insinuation that Yuuki did got pregnant from Yume last night together and had a daughter product of their love .

Yes , I know I got to be thrown with everything , sinks and all . Because what I'm saying is Zero and Zeki were second fiddle to the Yume tragic Pureblood Bloody Love vampiric romantic tale . Because the story only told us the Zeki love parts which were relevant to the main Yume love story . The ones which affected how she and Kaname interacted with each other .

This crazy rant is not saying Yuuki never love Zero ( she did in her own way  ) . Not is saying Zero wasn't important to Yuuki ( He was . After  all , they marry and spend most of their lives together . Had a family and loved each other . Got as happy as they could . ) Only that the main purpose of Vampire Knight story was to tell Yume love story , not the Zeki love one . That's why the lack of data about how Zero and Yuuki spend their life together .

Why the story ended with a " Zeki by default " end ?

Because Yuuki would never choose to go to Zero if Kaname was alive . Nor Yuuki would accept becoming Zero's mate unless Kaname wished and bless Yuuki and Zero to be together as they both live in light , Because no matter how terrible and toxic Kaname and Yuuki's love was , Yuuki alone would never wanted to let go off from Kaname's side . Because he was his most important and loved person in the world . No matter what crazy stuff Kaname did to her . Because the one who truly chose for Yuuki was Kaname . He sacrificed himself as the way to make sure he was out of Yuuki's options for mate . Because Yuuki's only options were to be alone for eternity ( her greatest fear ) or fulfill Kaname's last wish and try to love and be happy with Zero . Yuuki did needed someone to cry her shoulder on and care for her . To prevent loneliness as happened when HW sacrificed herself and let Kaname alone in the world . After all , even if Yuuki considered her feelings for Zero were mostly friendship , she could  learn to reciprocate Zero's love for her as her way to make him happy . But only if she knew there was no way for her to get Kaname to her side alive .

Great post, I think it summarizes everything about VK that I wanted to tell and share, especially the bold part but always felt so lazy and perhaps drawn back to say.

And this also summarizes a tragic love where the one was supposed to die and sacrifice about the other's happiness in order for them to reach the light and get out of the dark forest.

At least as how Hino pictures it and as I perceive it; but still in my mind at least you have to live with the paradox; how a man is the end and the start of your world, but still not to be able to live happily ever after by his side? - this is common logic, but not Hino's logic, as she follows another path, presenting happiness and love to be two different things after all, where sometimes one has to sacrifice his personal happiness and feelings to offer to another one salvation.

Kaname did it for Yuuki / Yuuki did it for Kaname

The overall taste that she left me was that since they all got out to the light at the end, it simple could not be any other way. Kaname's salvation was away of that despair and bloody society, and free of his tragic memories, otherwise he could not go on.

Yuuki's salvation was the light, carefree human world where she could still live happy moments next to Zero who also loved.

It was only through that unbreakable and eternal love she had for Kaname that she could offer  him such a future. And this summarizes also their tragic love that offered to both of the light with their separate but for the same cause sacrifices.  

So yes, this is also my impression of Hino's plot there, no matter how she develops it or which meanings she fails to convey example co-existence, bla...bla...and her inconsistencies, but I have already stated my opinion about this.

i don't agree:blah: , yes they loved it so much and sacrificed their happiness for the light and blah. .BUT... the main point is the theme of the plot was not clear, it was never,  every chapter felt like a new one:crazy2: . A plot of such a famous manga should be organic and well knitted and the tragedy should impact the readers in good way. Without an organic explanation, this love thing and tragedy came out laughable.