Chapter 77 translation

I agree Kaname IS the ancestor of the Kuran Clan he had to start a family with a lady. Personally I think that his wife/queen blood has been devoured by the hunters and because that the hunters where cursed with curse of the twins. Just an assumption of course . There is a big mystery on Kaname's wife/queen/mother of the Kuran Clan and how the kurancest started, and Matsuri is keeping it a mystery so that when she tells us it will be a big shocker. Sneaky and even though it makes me restless I am also loving it

if hino is keeping so much mystery around it then it must have something to do with yuuki ..and thats bring us back to the hooded women theory

gentle yuuki wrote: I agree Kaname IS the ancestor of the Kuran Clan he had to start a family with a lady. Personally I think that his wife/queen blood has been devoured by the hunters and because that the hunters where cursed with curse of the twins. Just an assumption of course . There is a big mystery on Kaname's wife/queen/mother of the Kuran Clan and how the kurancest started, and Matsuri is keeping it a mystery so that when she tells us it will be a big shocker. Sneaky and even though it makes me restless I am also loving it

if hino is keeping so much mystery around it then it must have something to do with yuuki ..and thats bring us back to the hooded women theory

The hooded woman theory? Due tell about the theory.

it was discussed here before ..the hooded women that appeared in ch 60
there are topics about this i think

@ Juliet-san

Hi Juliet-san *huggles*... how are you? I just come drop by for the new chapter... I cant help but comment on this new chapter ^^" .... something I am so worried so long ago, since the first time I see... err... Kaname's first attachment in the past? The lady who sacrifice herself... after seeing her for the first time in this page http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-22/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html - I cant help but stop and think ... OMG ... she .. really .. looks .. like .... Zero @@
(and I have been guessing for months that she will looks like Yuuki .. or more precisely.. Yuuki looks a lot like her).. I mean long straight light coloured hair (just like Zero) and elongated and calm eyes.. just like Zero @@ .... ... and in this new chapter Kaname look at the Kiriyu twins for the first time with such face and says something like "how come that twins were born in the hunter bloodline" (the twins really looks so cute and sweet .. and reminds me of that lady a lot!)....maybe what Sara say to Zero is "It is said that the lady who gave power to hunters will reincarante in the first hunter twin born alive .. and the lady was actually Kaname first love" .. and thats why Zero gave such face on the last page like "this is just a bad bad joke.. I really have to kill all the purebloods and then kill myself" ........ I mean thats gonna be a bad joke if in the end turns out that Kiriyus twin is the reincarnated of that Pureblood lady of Kaname first love

neee.... I am just kidding ... cant help ...

But I think there will be more secret, I actually can accept if that lady is Kaname's wife. But problem is, he and she never said so nor everyone else in manga. (Yuuki did call her "our mother" but Kaname never reply if it is true or not). Besides, Kurans all got dark curly hair, like Kaname. If the lady is their mother, why not even a single one of them got light straight hair like her? And Kaname feels the first sign of attachment that she is precious to him on the day the lady die (just before she left) http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-12/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html. Apparently doesnt that suggest they havent start anything yet?

@ MGM good to know that you are still around and interested in VK...warm embraces there, hope that you are doing all right...

-Haha, I laughed I bit with the similarity between the HA and Zero, and do not forget and White Lily, can White Lily be a descendant as well? don't worry, i am only much as much as you do, even though the HA had features that are a lot closer to Zero than Kaname or Yuuki for example but i think that Hino purposely did that to totally differentiate to the reader's mind Yuuki and from the ancestor; another indication the pants the HL used to wear.

As for the mother part, Gentle Yuki got me there with her answer;

when yuuki talked about "our mother " she was talking about juuri not that women

and I think that's obvious (and not debatable as to which mother Yuuki referred to, as in Kaname;s past (the part that was revealed) did not included the "family Part", this part was concealed.

And another part that was concealed, I think, it was the "curse" part, where we have no real clues about it...

Many believed that it was a natural consequence for the humans that became vampires as their bodies suddenly acquired the predator's instincts > but somehow neither this theory in relation to the twins is fully stated or conveyed. Yet for the first hunters that existed Kaname said that they will seek bloodshed due to a hateful instinct> yet that part is in relation with the pureblood, so not any real relation also there.

Now I am wondering of this curse; is it a real curse that could have been casted after a real incident such as it was the "bloodlust" for the first hunters after they acquired the power to kill vampires due to the woman's sacrifice...? meaning another event took place at the past and that event provoked the "curse", without the curse being there from the beginning.

There is also Cross that many times mentions the curse and there are references to the sinful decisions of his ancestors also through Isaya (at the chapter where Cross visited Isaya) ...Cross is also a legendary hunter and the resemblance to Zero in terms of "curses", "sins of the parents" and exquisite powers is also quite striking.

And Kaname at the car is quite surprised to hear of two twins instead of one; I suppose that this event spoke of Zero's strength, perhaps even good nature, that unconsciously seemed to defy a curse that had become a nature's law for the vampire twins' case. In respects of these merits, I believe that Kaname saw in Zero later on a useful shield (even though Zero's powers were not full and he was young, perhaps Zero's resistance to the curse showed that he will become strong and later on Shizuka's biting verified the fact since Zero resisted his change and that had also impressed Kaname).

And so the events that followed Kaname's first "meeting" with the twins, verified Kaname's original idea (because as Takuma says that's the point in time where Kaname probably convinced the idea to kill Rido and get his OP in action), in a general frame I believe. I also wonder if the fact that two twins survived from the curse could be an indication of some sort? like a prophecy? but that's me having several ideas there...since this kind of twist at the curse came to a strange period of time where many events took place.

So perhaps the curse is a part that we shall explore later on along with the rest of kaname's past where Hino owns us an explanation for the Kurans lineage and the final season of despair that led to Kaname's slumber.

Even though Hino has many holes, directions to cover and I have no idea how many years we shall need to get there, LOL...

juliet wrote:

@ Juliet-san

Hi Juliet-san *huggles*... how are you? I just come drop by for the new chapter... I cant help but comment on this new chapter ^^" .... something I am so worried so long ago, since the first time I see... err... Kaname's first attachment in the past? The lady who sacrifice herself... after seeing her for the first time in this page http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-22/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html - I cant help but stop and think ... OMG ... she .. really .. looks .. like .... Zero @@
(and I have been guessing for months that she will looks like Yuuki .. or more precisely.. Yuuki looks a lot like her).. I mean long straight light coloured hair (just like Zero) and elongated and calm eyes.. just like Zero @@ .... ... and in this new chapter Kaname look at the Kiriyu twins for the first time with such face and says something like "how come that twins were born in the hunter bloodline" (the twins really looks so cute and sweet .. and reminds me of that lady a lot!)....maybe what Sara say to Zero is "It is said that the lady who gave power to hunters will reincarante in the first hunter twin born alive .. and the lady was actually Kaname first love" .. and thats why Zero gave such face on the last page like "this is just a bad bad joke.. I really have to kill all the purebloods and then kill myself" ........ I mean thats gonna be a bad joke if in the end turns out that Kiriyus twin is the reincarnated of that Pureblood lady of Kaname first love

neee.... I am just kidding ... cant help ...

But I think there will be more secret, I actually can accept if that lady is Kaname's wife. But problem is, he and she never said so nor everyone else in manga. (Yuuki did call her "our mother" but Kaname never reply if it is true or not). Besides, Kurans all got dark curly hair, like Kaname. If the lady is their mother, why not even a single one of them got light straight hair like her? And Kaname feels the first sign of attachment that she is precious to him on the day the lady die (just before she left) http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-12/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html. Apparently doesnt that suggest they havent start anything yet?

@ MGM good to know that you are still around and interested in VK...warm embraces there, hope that you are doing all right...

-Haha, I laughed I bit with the similarity between the HA and Zero, and do not forget and White Lily, can White Lily be a descendant as well? don't worry, i am only much as much as you do, even though the HA had features that are a lot closer to Zero than Kaname or Yuuki for example but i think that Hino purposely did that to totally differentiate to the reader's mind Yuuki and from the ancestor; another indication the pants the HL used to wear.

As for the mother part, Gentle Yuki got me there with her answer;

when yuuki talked about "our mother " she was talking about juuri not that women

and I think that's obvious (and not debatable as to which mother Yuuki referred to, as in Kaname;s past (the part that was revealed) did not included the "family Part", this part was concealed.

And another part that was concealed, I think, it was the "curse" part, where we have no real clues about it...

Many believed that it was a natural consequence for the humans that became vampires as their bodies suddenly acquired the predator's instincts > but somehow neither this theory in relation to the twins is fully stated or conveyed. Yet for the first hunters that existed Kaname said that they will seek bloodshed due to a hateful instinct> yet that part is in relation with the pureblood, so not any real relation also there.

Now I am wondering of this curse; is it a real curse that could have been casted after a real incident such as it was the "bloodlust" for the first hunters after they acquired the power to kill vampires due to the woman's sacrifice...? meaning another event took place at the past and that event provoked the "curse", without the curse being there from the beginning.

There is also Cross that many times mentions the curse and there are references to the sinful decisions of his ancestors also through Isaya (at the chapter where Cross visited Isaya) ...Cross is also a legendary hunter and the resemblance to Zero in terms of "curses", "sins of the parents" and exquisite powers is also quite striking.

And Kaname at the car is quite surprised to hear of two twins instead of one; I suppose that this event spoke of Zero's strength, perhaps even good nature, that unconsciously seemed to defy a curse that had become a nature's law for the vampire twins' case. In respects of these merits, I believe that Kaname saw in Zero later on a useful shield (even though Zero's powers were not full and he was young, perhaps Zero's resistance to the curse showed that he will become strong and later on Shizuka's biting verified the fact since Zero resisted his change and that had also impressed Kaname).

And so the events that followed Kaname's first "meeting" with the twins, verified Kaname's original idea (because as Takuma says that's the point in time where Kaname probably convinced the idea to kill Rido and get his OP in action), in a general frame I believe. I also wonder if the fact that two twins survived from the curse could be an indication of some sort? like a prophecy? but that's me having several ideas there...since this kind of twist at the curse came to a strange period of time where many events took place.

So perhaps the curse is a part that we shall explore later on along with the rest of kaname's past where Hino owns us an explanation for the Kurans lineage and the final season of despair that led to Kaname's slumber.

Even though Hino has many holes, directions to cover and I have no idea how many years we shall need to get there, LOL...

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2163-20/vampire-knight/chapter-37.html

Ichiru says that the curse of twins is punishment for a crime their ancestors committed. They ate a vampire. Somehow I doubt they are talking about the Hooded Woman she willingly sacrificed herself. Plus she only gave them the weapons Artemis and Bloody Rose never the strength for them to hunt. They are talking about another person. I am probably make a huge assumption, but I think that Kaname's past wife has been the one who was killed by the original vampire hunters and that was what caused Kaname so much despair and deciding to sleep in the coffin.

but kaname doesnt seem to hate the hunters so much
if ther really ate his wife he would have finished them off for sure ..kaname was afraid of a sacrifise from yuuki
but if kanames wife did sacrifise her self too then then the curse would never happen just like in the case of that women
im lost now
does this makes sense to you ?

Thanks for the work

IF kaname had another person in his life who sacrificed herself, then kaname would be very unfortunate. worse still to have her taken by the hunters yet again, like another he cared about (fyi, the book summary say that Yuuki realises that Kaname's affection for the companion ran deep.).

- ichiru talks about hunters being cursed because they devoured a vampire
- Yagari talks about the hunters consuming a vampire and Kaname's insinuation they need to repay that.
- we're shown the hunters drinking enough blood of a vampire it poisons them to turn them into hunters
- Kaname charges the hunters with hunting down the vampires and shows them how to make weapons from the heart of his companion
- Isaya talks about the sins of their fathers and how kaien is unable to live either as a human or vampire.

i don't see that it makes sense that kaname had two people in his life sacrifice themselves and be eaten by the hunters. and it doesn't make sense that the hunters consumed two vampires.

IF kaname's wife sacrificed herself too, it can't have been related to the hunters.

Knightmare wrote:IF kaname had another person in his life who sacrificed herself, then kaname would be very unfortunate. worse still to have her taken by the hunters yet again, like another he cared about (fyi, the book summary say that Yuuki realises that Kaname's affection for the companion ran deep.).

- ichiru talks about hunters being cursed because they devoured a vampire
- Yagari talks about the hunters consuming a vampire and Kaname's insinuation they need to repay that.
- we're shown the hunters drinking enough blood of a vampire it poisons them to turn them into hunters
- Kaname charges the hunters with hunting down the vampires and shows them how to make weapons from the heart of his companion
- Isaya talks about the sins of their fathers and how kaien is unable to live either as a human or vampire.

i don't see that it makes sense that kaname had two people in his life sacrifice themselves and be eaten by the hunters. and it doesn't make sense that the hunters consumed two vampires.

IF kaname's wife sacrificed herself too, it can't have been related to the hunters.

yes and the curse? meaning okay there is no other sacrifice but something must have occurred for the curse to happen or I do not see it conveyed as an idea at the chapters that we had...if it was just because they took the blood of the HW then why is it called a curse? or to view it as a sin? it was volunteering and it does not make sense either.

Wait, I'm confused now with all these posts abou the pureblood woman? I mean she was the one who sacrificed herself and who the hunters ate? But what's this with a second woman???? Sorry, I don't get it. Can someone explain?? Thanks.


Also I don't think the hunters hate the vampires because of the twin curse. It was a consequence of devouring that lady and becoming hunters. I think they just hate vampires because of what happened in the past. (With all the purebloods making army's of level E's and such)Maybe they were only gratefull to the wooded woman, not seeing her as 'one of those monsters.'


I'm really curious about the twin curse though. (I think the 'curse' is because of the blood, not because someone litterallly 'cursed' them...). But because of this chapter, there does seem more to it than before...

I think what makes it a curse is because along with the hunters absorbing the Hooded woman's blood and developing powers of their own, they are acquiring the vampire nature along with it. Since it is in the vampire's nature to consume the life of another, any twins conceived by a hunter family are predisposed to fight and eat each other in the womb. The same goes for vampires. The need to feed off of someone else is a curse in and of itself.

Amaran wrote:I think what makes it a curse is because along with the hunters absorbing the Hooded woman's blood and developing powers of their own, they are acquiring the vampire nature along with it. Since it is in the vampire's nature to consume the life of another, any twins conceived by a hunter family are predisposed to fight and eat each other in the womb. The same goes for vampires. The need to feed off of someone else is a curse in and of itself.

mmm this makes sense to me

I think what makes it a curse is because along with the hunters absorbing the Hooded woman's blood and developing powers of their own, they are acquiring the vampire nature along with it. Since it is in the vampire's nature to consume the life of another, any twins conceived by a hunter family are predisposed to fight and eat each other in the womb. The same goes for vampires. The need to feed off of someone else is a curse in and of itself.

Also I don't think the hunters hate the vampires because of the twin curse. It was a consequence of devouring that lady and becoming hunters. I think they just hate vampires because of what happened in the past. (With all the purebloods making army's of level E's and such)Maybe they were only gratefull to the wooded woman, not seeing her as 'one of those monsters.'

No of course they do not hate vampires due to the twin's curse...to separate these points...this is how the hunters obtained their new powers, weapons and also natural instinct against vampires...

http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-15/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

In this page above Kaname defines the actual nature of the new hunters and what he says is that they will seek bloodshed, Just as we have, from a hateful instict....

Zero adds in the narration that in exchange of this woman's life, the hunters obtained the weapons to slaughter vampires and he adds "the blood that runs through our body whispers not to forgive vampires for their inhumanity".

Kaname to Yagari; "Vampire hunting is your speciality...after all your ancestors of the distant past killed the vampire progenitor so they could obtain the power to hunt..."

Yagari: "So you want to pay for the sins of our ancestors with our work..."

In the above lines where the nature of the hunters is defined> they acquired the power to hunt and are driven by hateful instincts > considering vampires and only vampires > thus Zero's line "the blood that runs through our body says not to forgive vampires for their inhumanity...

so due to the HW sacrifice hunters obtained weapons such as BR, hateful instincts in relation to vampires and the responsibility to hunt as that would be their price and their obligation since they accepted the woman's sacrifice to obtain extra powers....

This part is clear...but no twin curse is involved in it...

Now about the twin curse, I searched to see were it is mentioned and there is Kaname's lines to Ichirou: "In the hunter lineage, when a mother is pregnant with twins there is usually a miscarriae or a stillbirth, the fetuses aren't self aware yet, manipulated by instinct the two...will devour each other in the women's womb just like vampires..."

Ichirou: "Shizuka-Sama said the hunters deserved that as a punishment for our ancestors who devoured a progenitor vampire of the vampire race to gain powers for hunting them..."

Kaname: "Occasionally a twin fetus will devour the entire life and powers of the other twin in the womb...and be born into this world as one of the strongest and most depraved hunters".

And the other vampire hunter with legendary powers seems to be Cross...

Former hunter president to Cross:

"Yet you are the same as the Kiryu twins, a sinner since birth...one of the filthy beings who are also called vampires without fangs".

(Zero escaped the characterization because I suppose did not devour Ichirou but until later when he had fangs... LOL)

Isaya to Cross: "Because of what your ancestors did, you were unable to be fully human or vampire..."

Yet the point with the twin curse is not depicted in the manga as the hunter's powers and instincts is...meaning we only have it stated and not pictured and it is said that it is a natural consequence of the instincts of the two;

Perhaps the misunderstanding is based due to heavy characterization such as "sinful", "curse", "killling an ancestor"...that Hino uses to characterize the past action of the hunters with a variety of ways that perplexes the script instead of simplifying it.

Shizuka to Zero: “You’ve got good senses… you knew I was here, even before your parents noticed. The twin children oh the hunters … it all comes down to your sinful blood…”

"Sinful" because their ancestors took the blood of the woman that sacrificed herself?

- Kaname to Zero: “You’re of a rare lineage of vampire hunters

So when it comes to the Kiryu's familly (and I will add and Cross in this but with reservation), why are their lineages considered "rare"? and how is this "rare" lineage connected to the twin curse since the twin curse naturally should be even stronger to lineages that are more powerful in terms of the blood?

The Kiryu's lineage "defied" the twins curse and this is the extraordinary part, the fact that Ichirou survived>

Kaname: “You first unconsciously stole the powers of your twin and were born into your family with the power of one and a half vampire hunters".

The existence of the twins easily betrayed there a different lineage than the rest of the hunters and easily conveyed the idea that one of two would be born with superior powers than the rest of the pack. Yet the lineage is considered "rare" from the start and this is a mystery as we do not see hunters separated in ranks, in fact they all started with the same powers.

Hunters in contradiction with vampires are not marrying humans that could degrade the blood because as the fan book says: " they have to be born inside of a hunter family", meaning both parents must be hunters just like the descendants of the pureblood.

Can the twin curse be the answer of these rare lines? first hunters that had twins> and twins that devoured each other ending in creating hunters with exceptional powers? so there are lineages such as the Kiryus that are considered "rare" because their ancestors were also coming from the twin curse? and can that be the reason why they are considered "sinful" in relation with the rest of the hunters? coming from the "vampires without fangs?" OR did these lineages somehow obtained more power than the rest of the families due to a specific event and in these familly the twin curse applied because the "instincts" are supposed to be stronger?

Kaname to Yagari; "Vampire hunting is your speciality...after all your ancestors of the distant past killed the vampire progenitor so they could obtain the power to hunt..."

Could it be that the vampire progenitor is related to Cross Kaien,Kiryu Zero and Yagari ate the same time?
All of them have unnatural and supernatural powers...so what can we conclude?
It seems that Kaname also knows everything that happened even when he was inside the coffin...
Maybe everything will come to the END when Kaname appears in the next chapters...

I think what makes it a curse is because along with the hunters absorbing the Hooded woman's blood and developing powers of their own, they are acquiring the vampire nature along with it.Since it is in the vampire's nature to consume the life of another, any twins conceived by a hunter family are predisposed to fight and eat each other in the womb. The same goes for vampires. The need to feed off of someone else is a curse in and of itself.

It might be … however the thing with this explanation is that we do not have any reference that this “curse” applies on vampires as well. We don’t have any statement in the story or the fanbook that vampires can’t have twins. That’s why I have some reservations that this curse stems from the vampire’s nature to consume another life …

On the other hand we have Zero to accuse himself that he acted like a vampire and consumed half of his brother’s life/powers. But this apperception also confirms more or less that the hunters are much alike to vampires >> they are seeking for blood … not to drink it as vampires do, but by killing vampires …

Thus my assumption is that IF this “curse” applies only on hunters then it could be cuz of their “dual nature” … they are hunters – which means bearing the natural instinct to kill vampires – but synchronously they bearing vampiric genes. Thus perhaps these two “natures” clash and the fetuses subconsciously eaten each other. The fetus without self-awareness yet, detects the vampiric genes of the other fetus and try to exterminate it since the instinct of the hunter is dominant cuz if the twins eat each other due to their “subtle vampirism” then that would mean that their vampiric instinct is the dominant one which it’s not.

What I mean is that this curse isn’t like a casted spell as punishment but could be the consequence of the “violation” of their past nature >> initially they were humans however ate a PB in order to obtain power i.e. an act that only vampires do hence the “rumoured curse” … Hunters aren’t exactly humans but nor vampires as well … they bearing the two natures together in a wider way … >>

Isaya to Cross: "Because of what your ancestors did, you were unable to be fully human or vampire..."

>> and we do know for sure that Kaien is a hunter lol.
Well this is me … I could be far off the base here haha …

Juliet wrote: Kaname: "Occasionally a twin fetus will devour the entire life and powers of the other twin in the womb...and be born into this world as one of the strongest and most depraved hunters".

And here it might lie the part of this “curse” that we missing … What signifies if hunters give birth of twins or one child which ate its twin in the womb? Apparently the outcome is a powerful hunter but since this is so rare it must mean something more …

- Kaname to Zero: “You’re of a rare lineage of vampire hunters

So when it comes to the Kiryu's familly (and I will add and Cross in this but with reservation), why are their lineages considered "rare"? and how is this "rare" lineage connected to the twin curse since the twin curse naturally should be even stronger to lineages that are more powerful in terms of the blood?

From the fanbook:
“Hereditary system: Genetics often determine their powers, so hunters must be born into a family of hunters. The Kryu family and the Cross family are distinguished hunter families.”

“People have high expectations for Zero Kiryu as the son of gifted vampire hunters.”

So the most distinguished families are the Kiryus and Cross’s family. But the point is why? As you pointed out we do not have clues that there is a ranking based on pureness of blood in hunters’ society hence based on what these two families are distinguished?
Apparently one factor is their superior powers which are heritable … so I’m thinking that despite the fact that all of the first hunters ate the HW they didn’t obtain the same powers. For example not all of them survived after they received her blood … so maybe some of them became stronger than the others and the Kiriyus/Cross spring from such hunters …

Hunters in contradiction with vampires are not marrying humans that could degrade the blood because as the fan book says: " they have to be born inside of a hunter family", meaning both parents must be hunters just like the descendants of the pureblood.

Can the twin curse be the answer of these rare lines? first hunters that had twins> and twins that devoured each other ending in creating hunters with exceptional powers? so there are lineages such as the Kiryus that are considered "rare" because their ancestors were also coming from the twin curse? and can that be the reason why they are considered "sinful" in relation with the rest of the hunters? coming from the "vampires without fangs?" OR did these lineages somehow obtained more power than the rest of the families due to a specific event and in these familly the twin curse applied because the "instincts" are supposed to be stronger?

It could be a possible scenario … cuz you are right. If Cross and Kiryus blood considered as sinful then the blood of all the hunters should be deemed as such.
So something else is hidden in their lineages.

Could also be though that this characterization as “sinners since birth” to lie on different origins ???
> Zero cuz he devoured half of his twin's powers so he is a “sinner” since birth.
> Kaien cuz his progenitor was a PB? I’m thinking Mariangie’s theory that Kaien and Isaya might be relatives >> Isaya’s child who was turned into human from his wife ended up marrying a hunter. >>

Isaya to Cross: "Because of what your ancestors did, you were unable to be fully human or vampire..."

However Cross could be also a twin that ate the other fetus in the womb entirely thus he is so powerful?

Ah … don’t know! But my feeling is that there is more into this twin “curse” for Hino surfacing this matter again.

nina wrote:It might be … however the thing with this explanation is that we do not have any reference that this “curse” applies on vampires as well. We don’t have any statement in the story or the fanbook that vampires can’t have twins. That’s why I have some reservations that this curse stems from the vampire’s nature to consume another life …

On the other hand we have Zero to accuse himself that he acted like a vampire and consumed half of his brother’s life/powers. But this apperception also confirms more or less that the hunters are much alike to vampires >> they are seeking for blood … not to drink it as vampires do, but by killing vampires …

Thus my assumption is that IF this “curse” applies only on hunters then it could be cuz of their “dual nature” … they are hunters – which means bearing the natural instinct to kill vampires – but synchronously they bearing vampiric genes. Thus perhaps these two “natures” clash and the fetuses subconsciously eaten each other. The fetus without self-awareness yet, detects the vampiric genes of the other fetus and try to exterminate it since the instinct of the hunter is dominant cuz if the twins eat each other due to their “subtle vampirism” then that would mean that their vampiric instinct is the dominant one which it’s not.

What I mean is that this curse isn’t like a casted spell as punishment but could be the consequence of the “violation” of their past nature >> initially they were humans however ate a PB in order to obtain power i.e. an act that only vampires do hence the “rumoured curse” … Hunters aren’t exactly humans but nor vampires as well … they bearing the two natures together in a wider way … >>

If it is their natures clashing this could help explain why it happenes. The natural thirst for blood which was intergratted into Kaname giving them their task to hunt vampires, could be the indicator to why the twins have this 'curse'. They thirst for blood even at a young age, as its part of them due to the vampiric genes they have.

Its something i honestly hadnt thought about, so thanks for pointing it out nina.

Juliet wrote: Kaname: "Occasionally a twin fetus will devour the entire life and powers of the other twin in the womb...and be born into this world as one of the strongest and most depraved hunters".

And here it might lie the part of this “curse” that we missing … What signifies if hunters give birth of twins or one child which ate its twin in the womb? Apparently the outcome is a powerful hunter but since this is so rare it must mean something more …

I wonder if it is possible that there was another incident involving a vampire and the hunters similar to the ancestress. Maybe a vampire gave their blood to save a hunter? Or a vampires blood was taken and the hunters who did so were cursed? And this sacrifice is what created the hunter twin curse? Though makes you wonder why there would be a curse on twins. Why are they deemed so significant? Is it to do with them being very powerful hunters or could the vampire have maybe been carrying twins, or had an affinity with them in some respect, and that was the aspect that the curse manifested itself into? It's all very abigious at the moment. I do hope it becomes clearer.

- Kaname to Zero: “You’re of a rare lineage of vampire hunters

So when it comes to the Kiryu's familly (and I will add and Cross in this but with reservation), why are their lineages considered "rare"? and how is this "rare" lineage connected to the twin curse since the twin curse naturally should be even stronger to lineages that are more powerful in terms of the blood?

From the fanbook:
“Hereditary system: Genetics often determine their powers, so hunters must be born into a family of hunters. The Kryu family and the Cross family are distinguished hunter families.”

“People have high expectations for Zero Kiryu as the son of gifted vampire hunters.”

So the most distinguished families are the Kiryus and Cross’s family. But the point is why? As you pointed out we do not have clues that there is a ranking based on pureness of blood in hunters’ society hence based on what these two families are distinguished?
Apparently one factor is their superior powers which are heritable … so I’m thinking that despite the fact that all of the first hunters ate the HW they didn’t obtain the same powers. For example not all of them survived after they received her blood … so maybe some of them became stronger than the others and the Kiriyus/Cross spring from such hunters …

Yes thats what i think, that the Kiryu's and Cross's got more power from HW then others, whether this is due to the quantity they had of her blood or how the blood integrated into their system is another mystery really.

Hunters in contradiction with vampires are not marrying humans that could degrade the blood because as the fan book says: " they have to be born inside of a hunter family", meaning both parents must be hunters just like the descendants of the pureblood.

Can the twin curse be the answer of these rare lines? first hunters that had twins> and twins that devoured each other ending in creating hunters with exceptional powers? so there are lineages such as the Kiryus that are considered "rare" because their ancestors were also coming from the twin curse? and can that be the reason why they are considered "sinful" in relation with the rest of the hunters? coming from the "vampires without fangs?" OR did these lineages somehow obtained more power than the rest of the families due to a specific event and in these familly the twin curse applied because the "instincts" are supposed to be stronger?

It could be a possible scenario … cuz you are right. If Cross and Kiryus blood considered as sinful then the blood of all the hunters should be deemed as such.
So something else is hidden in their lineages.

Could also be though that this characterization as “sinners since birth” to lie on different origins ???
> Zero cuz he devoured half of his twin's powers so he is a “sinner” since birth.
> Kaien cuz his progenitor was a PB? I’m thinking Mariangie’s theory that Kaien and Isaya might be relatives >> Isaya’s child who was turned into human from his wife ended up marrying a hunter. >>

Isaya to Cross: "Because of what your ancestors did, you were unable to be fully human or vampire..."

However Cross could be also a twin that ate the other fetus in the womb entirely thus he is so powerful?

Ah … don’t know! But my feeling is that there is more into this twin “curse” for Hino surfacing this matter again.

Considering that they original hunters took the blood of a pureblood this could help explain why they must marry their own kind to create a hunter, very much like pureblood vampires must marry each other for pureblood offspring.

I wonder if with the kiryu and cross linerage was laready similar to vampires so when they took the ancestress's blood it brought out the similarities aswell as giving them power. It also could lead onto thinking to when vampires were created. Were all members in those families changed into vampires or all their offspring became vampires? If they still had some human memebers could these be linked with the Kiryu's and Cross's? Could these families have been related in blood to some vampires and due to this the ancestress's blood had more effect on them due to similarity in genes? Its a long shot, and i'm not fully sure on this, but its a thought i had.

Its all still very confusing really.

What do you think of Kaname in the beginning of Chap. 77?
Why did he react like that when he saw the twins (Zero and Ichiru)?
I'm confused...

> Kaien cuz his progenitor was a PB? I’m thinking Mariangie’s theory that Kaien and Isaya might be relatives >> Isaya’s child who was turned into human from his wife ended up marrying a hunter. >>

Everything is possible because this is finction, you never know...but judging from Yuuki's case when she was human, there was nothings as superior powers inside her that would resume the powers of a pureblood + later on marrying a hunter= an ultimate vampire hunter with high powers, meaning wouldn't it logically fall into the human+hunter= no hunter or at least simple hunter category?

because right now apart from Yuuki we do not have the example of another turned on that managed though to pass a part of the pureblood genes to its descendants, I am a bit preservative towards that direction...

IMO Cross case can act as a parrarel to Zero's story> both bloods sinful and both of them extremely powerful following the consequences of the "curse"...

Isaya to Cross: "Because of what your ancestors did, you were unable to be fully human or vampire...

Isaya normally should be referring to all hunters, shouldn't he, since all the hunters took the decision to accept the HW sacrifice and yet if you combine it with the former president's line suddenly Cross and Zero are distinguished from the pack and furthermore are called filthy and that makes me question why a natural condition that possibly all hunters could face due to their dual nature has even being characterized in general and pinpointed out as "filthy?" and a sinner's act, giving them the title of a vampire without fangs?

Former hunter president to Cross:

"Yet you are the same as the Kiryu twins, a sinner since birth...one of the filthy beings who are also called vampires without fangs".

What I mean is that this is not just our impression that sth has happened and the Kiruy line was distinguished but also Cross, there are fishy lines that pinpoint that these families were different from the rest of the hunters both in a good way and both in a bad way.

Good because of their exceptional powers, bad because they are accused of being sinful:

Shizuka to Zero: “You’ve got good senses… you knew I was here, even before your parents noticed. The twin children oh the hunters … it all comes down to your sinful blood…”

Notice that Shizuka also points out the twin curse as sinful but why? furthermore if this applied in vampires wouldn't that be considered normal also for a pureblood...?

IF this “curse” applies only on hunters then it could be cuz of their “dual nature” … they are hunters – which means bearing the natural instinct to kill vampires – but synchronously they bearing vampiric genes. Thus perhaps these two “natures” clash and the fetuses subconsciously eaten each other. The fetus without self-awareness yet, detects the vampiric genes of the other fetus and try to exterminate it since the instinct of the hunter is dominant cuz if the twins eat each other due to their “subtle vampirism” then that would mean that their vampiric instinct is the dominant one which it’s not.

I think that's a very, very good explanation about it and it also brings out the dual nature of the hunters in an early age, yet the origin of the curse is not provided...and its still intriguing because it seems that this "curse" hit two distinctive hunter families (or at least the Kiruy's since Kaien's curse is a bit hidden)...

Yes thats what i think, that the Kiryu's and Cross's got more power from HW then others, whether this is due to the quantity they had of her blood or how the blood integrated into their system is another mystery really.

That's interesting and a thought I never had; then Kaname knows their ancestors? probably? they might even fought together? can this be possible?

meanwhile another observation is that the first hunters that were born must have outlasted 10.000 years, the purebloods due to the wars ended up in 30 families and hunters? we do not have numbers but hunters are even more vulnerable and they are a kind that does not last so many years as the almost eternal purebloods. So how many the HW changed in order to make an adequate army for the purebloods that where there and also the ones that would come?

I have no idea if Hino would even cover that point but under a view, how is the number of the hunters preserved after ten thousand years while purebloods are mostly at the border of extinction?