Yuuki and Zero's romance

First topic message reminder :

I'm YuMe fan but I also like scenes between Yuuki and Zero. Their relationship always was very interesting so I want to see development in this. These two know each other well and there is many problems and secrets hidden behind. Yuuki has a feelings for Zero as a lover but she also love him like older brother. I think there is a necessity to explain much between them. They will never be happy if they don't do it soon.

It is weird but I hope there will be more Zeki scenes in the next chapters. Do you think it is possible now?

VampireCythia wrote:

PeachBum wrote:I think Yuuki loves Zero. I don't think she realized she loved him until it was too late (becoming a vampire and going with Kaname). Throughout the manga she tries to figure out her feelings for Zero but was always interrupted or distracted when she really started to think about it. Then Kaname's advances and her wanting to know her past totally overshadowed thoughts of her trying to figure out her feelings for Zero.

I reread the manga recently and noticed something I had completely missed before, that to me, reenforces Yuuki's feelings for Zero. It's in chapter 22 pg 12 when Yuuki grabs Zero's shirt. That's all fine and doesn't really represent anything, that is, until Kaname notices it also. And says: It's something I've overlooked. With him looking at Yuuki clinging to Zero. Which to me could only mean that he feels or knows that Yuuki loves Zero because he wouldn't be worried or say anything like that if he only thought their relationship was friendship. Perhaps others have a different interpretation but Kaname becomes much more forward about his feelings afterward.

I'm really curious to see what will happen with their relationship in chapter 74. Will anything change? Will everything change? Will it even happen? I can't wait to see.

I do agree a lot with you. I will check the old chapters out again maybe there is more clues And it too remind me of one story in the Vk novel i read a little translation. You know the story about Aidou fall in love with an ex-human girl. When the story begin she is totally in love with Kaname but she begin to like Aidou even more but she say to herself "No it´s kaname-sama i love" And before she die she realise she love him and say I love you to him(I did almost cry) It´s like Yuuki early in the story she allways say "The only one i love is Kaname" But she wawes because of her feelings for Zero. And when she turned back to be a vampire she realise her own feelings because she know she gonna lose him. And decide to be his enemy to say there is no pice left of the old Yuuki. And when they say goodbye Zero says they will be enimies too she say she will run forever and when she are alone she cry and say she not the only one for him and she´ll naver changes in chapter 51 she say to him that one part of her heart still belong to Zero. We know cahpter 60 Zero did carry her when she was hurt and she allmost bite him (I still wonder what Zero was thinking rigt at the moment) And in chapter 68 in her inner thought say that was second time she been seperated without could do anything in both chapter 70 & 71 there have a small talk and acting cold to each other in cahpetr 72 he said if she was not behave what hes doing she could just use the bracelet she said no after he watching her take blood tablets and in chapter 73 she watching him carry Maria (And maybe was a little jelousy She said she should not be carring about him being with other woman. She says to him that she want to speak to him like before he ask her about she was crasy and said she should go with him he offer his wrist to her and she go for biteting his neck. My surmary done
Still after this i have no idea what is going on
Sorry for my poor english

i agree with u........i want so much a zeki end that i almost cry.......just kidding
but i love zero so much!!after his bloody and sad past ,he soooooo deserves at least to have the girl that he loves!and dont forget that in chapter 34 yuki admitted to zero that she needed him in order to live on(pages 12-15)
but he instead told her that she needed kaname,not him......poor zerooooooo

RavenBlack wrote:[
and dont forget that in chapter 34 yuki admitted to zero that she needed him in order to live on(pages 12-15)
but he instead told her that she needed kaname,not him......poor zerooooooo

Actually, yuuki did not said she needed zero (if I remember corectly). zero said: you act like you need me, but it isn't true. you need kuran kaname. wasn't always like this? (something like this)

Well, zero knew what he knew. maybe each time when he drank yuuki's blood he felt something, like the first time when he said to her: you want your blood to be drank by kuran kaname, not me. yuuki denied of course, but the blood spoke for her.

aya-chan wrote:
Actually, yuuki did not said she needed zero (if I remember corectly). zero said: you act like you need me, but it isn't true. you need kuran kaname. wasn't always like this? (something like this)

Well, zero knew what he knew. maybe each time when he drank yuuki's blood he felt something, like the first time when he said to her: you want your blood to be drank by kuran kaname, not me. yuuki denied of course, but the blood spoke for her.

Zero does say that and he's not wrong that Yuuki was all about Kaname. Whether she needed Kaname emotionally like she needed Zero, is pretty debatable, she clearly relies on Zero heavily for a multitude of reasons and in that, Zero is actually the wrong one for thinking he's not needed. Yuuki's words now also confirm that. Need isn't love though, its just a one facet of attachment and an example of why Yuuki cannot break her bond to Zero. She is only just start starting to confirm she wants Zero, by saying that she wants to talk to him like before and by her action of biting Zero with her fangs, she's fulfilling the idea of taking what she wants with her fangs.

Also I think they're now beyond the issues of Zero accepting Yuuki's vampire side and differences of opinion aren't a huge barrier as we can see Zero isn't as extreme as he once was. they're both still on the other side of understanding each other, but the wall that was between them is gradually coming down.

Yuuki says she still has to run from Zero, but this no longer refers to a physical state, so she must mean emotionally she has to keep herself distant from Zero, which suggests more than friendship because there's no need to "run" for her own sake if friendship is all she wants. The alternative reason would be to protect Zero from...hurting him by her association? I wish that Yuuki would elaborate.

Seriously. Zeki is a charm, but for me, on this chapter 73 nothing has not changed.

Matsuri just found a new way of repeating old questions.

In this chapter:

1) Yuki says that her thirst will not finish because her heart is connected to Zero.
... But she's always going to drink Kaname's blood, just him...

... ... But she recalls K´s sweet words: "I will kill you ... or you'll kill me" ...
Blackmail

This does not solve the LT to any side. It is ambiguous.

2) She (maybe) will drink Z´s blood. Directly across his neck. Intensely.

... BUT ...

After Zero said that he would end the NC if she continues being a coward.
Blackmail

As always, Matsuri always makes things ambiguous. She continues to do scenes that do not override any side. Sincerely, Zekis and Yumes are equal and at the same level. As always.
Things will not be resolved. Things are not more complicated. The story just did not move.

In the first arc, it was exciting, but now I think Matsuri´s style a coward.

Yumes will say "yes, Kaname said that, but it means ...
"
Zekis: Zero said this, but it can be ...


Do You see? The story did not come out that point. Never. Matsuri is the one who needs to take a step further, only this explains the inconsistency that is entering the story ...
She had already planned the end. Now, I doubt it. I do not think she planned to "the man who will be chosen." I think she's freaking out in a sea of ​​doubt. That was just an excuse. So fans could not disturb her because "everything is already decided." Poor thing (evil grinnnnnnn)

knightmare wrote: Zero does say that and he's not wrong that Yuuki was all about Kaname. Whether she needed Kaname emotionally like she needed Zero, is pretty debatable, she clearly relies on Zero heavily for a multitude of reasons and in that, Zero is actually the wrong one for thinking he's not needed. Yuuki's words now also confirm that. Need isn't love though, its just a one facet of attachment and an example of why Yuuki cannot break her bond to Zero. She is only just start starting to confirm she wants Zero, by saying that she wants to talk to him like before and by her action of biting Zero with her fangs, she's fulfilling the idea of taking what she wants with her fangs.

1. Zero is a beloved person for Yuuki, hence and she always will needed him in her life … to have to cut off all the ties or even worse to be enemies with such a person is hurtful.

2. Yuuki’s blood doesn’t lie, no? … Zero had tasted her emotions a lot of times and in fact one of these times he was really pissed cuz he realized that Yuuki wanted to give her blood to Kaname. Furthermore Zero drank her blood and kissed her just before they parted … so I think he has a pretty good idea of Yuuki’s feelings despite whatever Yuuki said for multitude reasons.

3. Yuuki’s wording “why I can’t take what I want with my fangs” is at least blurred on who she was referring to … In the available scanlation Yuuki says …

“All the things that I want I can’t even seize them with my fangs … the thing that I want … No … because that person (aka Kaname) isn’t currently by my side …” >>> meaning that she wants to take Kaname’s blood with her fangs but she can’t do it …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/26
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/27

… and she continues … even if he hadn’t ask her to drink only his blood she’d do it … is also her wish and will I guess NOW. Also about the infamous phrase “a part of my heart …” >>> NOW she is thinking that these words were excessive and childish.

I don’t know which version is the most accurate yet … but the two available versions (the translation and the scanlation) are quite different … I just wanted to point out the difference …

Also I think they're now beyond the issues of Zero accepting Yuuki's vampire side and differences of opinion aren't a huge barrier as we can see Zero isn't as extreme as he once was. they're both still on the other side of understanding each other, but the wall that was between them is gradually coming down.

How? By blackmailing her that if she won’t drink his blood he’ll smash her school-game right now? Then why Yuuki says “why can’t move forward without hurting each other? Why she feels hurt from Zero’s words and act?

Yuuki says she still has to run from Zero, but this no longer refers to a physical state, so she must mean emotionally she has to keep herself distant from Zero, which suggests more than friendship because there's no need to "run" for her own sake if friendship is all she wants. The alternative reason would be to protect Zero from...hurting him by her association? I wish that Yuuki would elaborate.

Among other reasons as well … maybe she wants to run away from him because as she said they keep hurting each other … from Yuuki’s last words I can’t see that their differences are starting to smooth … at least this is what she believes. And from the sample she has thus far from Zero’s words and actions is a logical conclusion from her part …

Vaille-chan wrote:
1) Yuki says that her thirst will not finish because her heart is connected to Zero.
... But she's always going to drink Kaname's blood, just him...

She’s just recalling the words she told to Kaname in the past … she’s not repeating them as a current statement … is quite different.
In fact she acknowledges that these words were excessive and childish … IMO there is the innuendo that her previous impression that she could not fully quench her thirst cuz a part of her heart was attached to Zero it might have being changed … but still there is space for different interpretations I suppose.

... But she recalls K´s sweet words: "I will kill you ... or you'll kill me" ...
Blackmail

Do you think that Yuuki believed even for a sec that he will kill her????? Or; the meaning of his words was to show her that no matter what she’ll tell him, he forgives her hence and he would prefer the death from her hands if he ever loses her?? IMO is an intensive way to smooth her guilt …

It’s far from blackmail …

2) She (maybe) will drink Z´s blood. Directly across his neck. Intensely.

Sure is more intensely to go for his neck rather to drink from his wrist. But…

1. Still remains to see why she do it, except from her hunger which is a given.
2. When Zero drank from Kaname he did it from his neck no? So can we make the assumption that Zero preferred his neck cuz it was more intensely and the most erotic spot??? Haha … I think no.

Generally the vampires are depicted to drink from the neck cuz from that spot runs the carotid vein which means the larger flow of blood hence and they can quench their thirst faster viz in a more satisfactory way … is an indication for the degree of their thirst … their wild instinct drives them there … So it’s not only out of passion, right?

... BUT ...

After Zero said that he would end the NC if she continues being a coward.
Blackmail

1. Zero said that he’ll smash/destroy her school-game <<< the tone is quite different …

2. He cut his wrist and let the blood flows … for a vampire in starvation like Yuuki is, this is something like compulsion …

So yes … this is a blackmail …

As always, Matsuri always makes things ambiguous. She continues to do scenes that do not override any side. Sincerely, Zekis and Yumes are equal and at the same level. As always.
Things will not be resolved. Things are not more complicated. The story just did not move.

Nice try there … but the two pairings is far from being equals. They never were equal and certainly they aren’t equals currently.

In short …
> Yume is a couple with the emotions clearly stated … romantic love from both sides, whereas Zeki is mostly depicted as an one-sided romantic love!

> Their status … Yuuki is Kaname’s fiancée acknowledged for the whole world … vampires and hunters, whereas Zeki was friends and currently enemies, even if is a fake status considering that they do not hate each other.

> Yume lived for a year under the same roof as a couple, whereas when Zeki were living together were like siblings.

So how and why they are equals???? Not to mention that even IF the romantic feelings were there for Zeki (from both sides), still Yuuki decided to go with Kaname, ergo? Still there is a distance …

The ambiguity is a given, meaning that IF Hino wants to reverses the situation she can do it. But till the ambiguity about the nature of Yuuki’s feelings, dissolved, Zeki is just an unrequited love … For be considered just close to equal we should have at least the same feelings stated, viz Yuuki to be tore between two ROMANTIC loves.

nina wrote:

... BUT ...

After Zero said that he would end the NC if she continues being a coward.
Blackmail

1. Zero said that he’ll smash/destroy her school-game <<< the tone is quite different …

2. He cut his wrist and let the blood flows … for a vampire in starvation like Yuuki is, this is something like compulsion …

So yes … this is a blackmail …

For all we know Zero had a very good reason for "blackmailing" Yuuki. Perhaps he's saving her from going to Sara. Maybe after she said she wished they could be like they were, Zero took that as an opening to actually help her directly (He does love the woman after all). Who knows? Maybe we should wait and see what happens. Maybe it will turn out that he did in fact blackmail her or maybe he's just being grumpy Zero. And in all honesty do you really think he would smash the school? Would the other Hunters even allow that? Let's stop saying something is a definite when it isn't yet, and call it what it is for now, an empty threat. Zero has a track record of them. And coercion would be the more correct term for what Zero said. Both men are guilty using of it.

PeachBum wrote:

nina wrote:

... BUT ...

After Zero said that he would end the NC if she continues being a coward.
Blackmail

1. Zero said that he’ll smash/destroy her school-game <<< the tone is quite different …

2. He cut his wrist and let the blood flows … for a vampire in starvation like Yuuki is, this is something like compulsion …

So yes … this is a blackmail …

For all we know Zero had a very good reason for "blackmailing" Yuuki. Perhaps he's saving her from going to Sara. Maybe after she said she wished they could be like they were, Zero took that as an opening to actually help her directly (He does love the woman after all). Who knows? Maybe we should wait and see what happens. Maybe it will turn out that he did in fact blackmail her or maybe he's just being grumpy Zero. And in all honesty do you really think he would smash the school? Would the other Hunters even allow that? Let's stop saying something is a definite when it isn't yet, and call it what it is for now, an empty threat. Zero has a track record of them. And coercion would be the more correct term for what Zero said. Both men are guilty using of it.

I didn’t question Zero’s motives. I also don’t believe that his intention was to hurt her. Maybe he has more reasons than we know right now … Sara’s plan for example I agree. I think the hunters and so Zero, knows more that they reveal.
But Yuuki doesn’t know … she finds Sara not a trustworthy person but she has no clue of what she might be planning. So from her point of view (not from ours) Zero’s words sounds like a “blackmail” to her.

Zero says that I’ll smash you school-game … he doesn’t mean literally the building ofc but it’s like “mocking” her attempt and like I said before even if he didn't mean these words literally and it was again just an empty threat, still Yuuki says that they keep hurting each other. What she means???? Probably that his words and action hurt her … It’s not my words but hers.

I’m accepting the term coercion … I used the term compulsion which is close to your term either way.
But the two cases Kaname’s words and Zero’s are very different at least by the way Yuuki received them …
In Kaname’s case she shows her love towards him by saying “how can you be mine” meaning that she was touched from his “coercion” so the term it doesn’t fit, whereas in Zero’s case she says that is hurt.
So … is far from considering the same … at least in Yuuki’s mind.

2. Yuuki’s blood doesn’t lie, no? … Zero had tasted her emotions a lot of times and in fact one of these times he was really pissed cuz he realized that Yuuki wanted to give her blood to Kaname. Furthermore Zero drank her blood and kissed her just before they parted … so I think he has a pretty good idea of Yuuki’s feelings despite whatever Yuuki said for multitude reasons.

im generally in agreement here, after all the blood does not lie, and if what Zero tasted from the first arc until its ending did not show any hint of her feelings for him then they're either hidden very deep enough to be undetectable or Yuki doesn't love him.
I personally think that if Yuki had any "hidden" feelings for him it would show in the blood, where even memories in the past can be seen, why not hidden feelings? so seeing as zero has no reaction even after he took her blood for the last time then im led to believe she doesn't.

How? By blackmailing her that if she won’t drink his blood he’ll smash her school-game right now? Then why Yuuki says “why can’t move forward without hurting each other? Why she feels hurt from Zero’s words and act? Among other reasons as well … maybe she wants to run away from him because as she said they keep hurting each other … from Yuuki’s last words I can’t see that their differences are starting to smooth … at least this is what she believes. And from the sample she has thus far from Zero’s words and actions is a logical conclusion from her part …

I see, it does make sense its the reason why Yuki was hurt emotionally.
I think because Yuki doesn't understand the reason why he's blackmailing her so she's hurt.

Sure is more intensely to go for his neck rather to drink from his wrist. But…

1. Still remains to see why she do it, except from her hunger which is a given.
2. When Zero drank from Kaname he did it from his neck no? So can we make the assumption that Zero preferred his neck cuz it was more intensely and the most erotic spot??? Haha … I think no.

haha and Zero also went for the most intimate spot. so this means?

nina wrote:

...still Yuuki says that they keep hurting each other. What she means???? Probably that his words and action hurt her … It’s not my words but hers.

I'm sure they do hurt her. I think it's mostly because half of her heart belongs to Kaname. Just as she was upset with Kaname (well, more at her self) because half of her heart belongs to Zero. So it hurts her because she knows she can't give her full heart to either one. What is interesting to me is that she still gives into him (just as she usually gives into Kaname). She could easily have argued that she was fine and did not need his blood. She could have ran away but instead she stayed and listened to him. Do I like that one or the other gets hurt? No, of course not. This is the major flaw in both relationships because Yuuki loves both men! It's really quite sad.

nina wrote:
2. Yuuki’s blood doesn’t lie, no? … Zero had tasted her emotions a lot of times and in fact one of these times he was really pissed cuz he realized that Yuuki wanted to give her blood to Kaname. Furthermore Zero drank her blood and kissed her just before they parted … so I think he has a pretty good idea of Yuuki’s feelings despite whatever Yuuki said for multitude reasons.

Zero never said her blood told him that Yuuki "only needed Kaname", he declared it as a truth from what he knows of her. And its not true, because we know that Yuuki needs Zero too. So you cannot say what Zero speaks is truth from Yuuki's blood, because the story demonstrated its not true. Zero's words reflect other reasoning. Zero knows she loves Kaname and expresses the belief that Yuuki neither needs nor wants Zero and he speaks from that as his truth as he sees it.

3. Yuuki’s wording “why I can’t take what I want with my fangs” is at least blurred on who she was referring to …

I don’t know which version is the most accurate yet … but the two available versions (the translation and the scanlation) are quite different … I just wanted to point out the difference …

I don't think either are very good versions. From my understanding is that she is not explicit on what she wants. I was claiming her actions are connect with her earlier words to provide clarity on what it is that she wants.

Also I think they're now beyond the issues of Zero accepting Yuuki's vampire side and differences of opinion aren't a huge barrier as we can see Zero isn't as extreme as he once was. they're both still on the other side of understanding each other, but the wall that was between them is gradually coming down.

How? By blackmailing her that if she won’t drink his blood he’ll smash her school-game right now? Then why Yuuki says “why can’t move forward without hurting each other? Why she feels hurt from Zero’s words and act?

I did not say they were completely beyond all their issues, they clearly don't know how to communicate with each other and express their worries because it leaves them vulnerable, Zero is particularly guilty of this. Whatever Zero says, his actions are still for Yuuki's sake here, which is a step in the right direction toward reconciliation. The whole situation is a farcry from the stance of anti-tolerance he once was.

Among other reasons as well … maybe she wants to run away from him because as she said they keep hurting each other … from Yuuki’s last words I can’t see that their differences are starting to smooth … at least this is what she believes. And from the sample she has thus far from Zero’s words and actions is a logical conclusion from her part …

I'm not convinced the statement of Yuuki's is just about the conversation they are having. She's talking about their whole relationship ("why do things always end up like this") and Yuuki's concern here when coupled with her "treasure yourself more!" implies this round is about hurting Zero, though he's doing it to himself to help her. Her hesitation is not merely about taking what she wants violating the rule, but taking from Zero.

About the "blackmail" matter, I'm going to quote two of my friends from MF. I think they summed it up pretty well.

Z didn’t blackmail her. Blackmail's coercion. Y had two choices: accept or reject. She chose to accept his offer. Z kindly offered his blood for Y’s sake, not his. Z didn’t ask for anything in return. He’s giving her blood so her hunger can sate & she can focus on her goals: NC. It’s the exact same situation of Z/Y in arc 1, but reversed. Z's on Y's case like she used to be on his in arc 1. Y's acting like arc 1 Z & Z's acting like arc 1 Y.

and

I agree, the faux blackmail of Zero's was irrelevant to Yuuki, at the end of the day, its all for Yuuki and its Zero who pays, she's troubled by his offer because of what it costs him. Its a poor blackmail when someone is trying to force you into taking something you want. I think Yuuki's words about always hurting each other implies she feels they are returning to their habit of using each other and allowing themselves to be used.

knightmare wrote: Zero never said her blood told him that Yuuki "only needed Kaname", he declared it as a truth from what he knows of her. And its not true, because we know that Yuuki needs Zero too. So you cannot say what Zero speaks is truth from Yuuki's blood, because the story demonstrated its not true. Zero's words reflect other reasoning. Zero knows she loves Kaname and expresses the belief that Yuuki neither needs nor wants Zero and he speaks from that as his truth as he sees it.

I never said that her blood told him that she didn’t need him or that she didn’t love him. In fact he shouldn’t need her blood to say so … Yuuki’s general stance towards him and her efforts to save him speaks for itself, clearly and loudly.
And if you look more closely my previous answer you’ll see that I said he must have a pretty good idea of her feelings, meaning that he should already know that she love him. Ergo her words for whatever reason she said it have less importance and gravity cuz her blood can’t be lying. But is also true that he told her that she wanted to give her blood to Kaname and he was pissed no? He tasted her feelings through her blood, that’s a fact so you can’t dismiss the possibility that he knew that Yuuki loved him as a brother or maybe that she loved Kaname more than him hence and his words “you need to be with Kaname”… among other reasons.

knightmare wrote:

3. Yuuki’s wording “why I can’t take what I want with my fangs” is at least blurred on who she was referring to …

I don’t know which version is the most accurate yet … but the two available versions (the translation and the scanlation) are quite different … I just wanted to point out the difference …

I don't think either are very good versions. From my understanding is that she is not explicit on what she wants. I was claiming her actions are connect with her earlier words to provide clarity on what it is that she wants.

From my understanding, Yuuki is more likely that was referring to Kaname because later says … “I can’t take what I want (with my fangs) cuz Kaname isn’t here”. Furthermore, recalling the promise she gave to Kaname, goes beyond the old statement ... that even if he didn’t ask her to take upon only his blood she would do it, meaning that NOW is her decision and in a way confirms the above that she wants Kaname’s blood. Also she’s trying to keep her words cuz rejects Zero’s offer at first.

So either her clarity is in question, cuz contradicts her self, or we need more clues of why she’s jumping on Zero’s throat.

I did not say they were completely beyond all their issues, they clearly don't know how to communicate with each other and express their worries because it leaves them vulnerable, Zero is particularly guilty of this. Whatever Zero says, his actions are still for Yuuki's sake here, which is a step in the right direction toward reconciliation. The whole situation is a farcry from the stance of anti-tolerance he once was.

Zero can’t communicate properly with Yuuki … Yuuki on the other hand, exposing her heart by saying that she wants to talk with him as they did in the past. She also tells him her worries. So she is honest with him and with her feelings/needs. And what she receives for an answer; >> rough treatment and rough words … “you’re a coward and I’ll smash your school-game”… mocking and hurtful words!

But I do believe that he concerns for Yuuki’s sake, among other reasons ofc, such as the safety of the DC, Sara’s plans etc. And we come on the same question again and again … why he goes to that extent and offers his blood? From what he says and the way he says it he means that if she won’t take blood she’ll lose control and she’ll put in jeopardy the safety of the DC viz her thirst is so intensive, that it will reflect upon her role.

But I can’t stop for pointing out the way he shows his concern … and the funny thing is that all the Zeki are trying their best to justify Zero’s stance by emphasising on his good intentions, whereas in the past they had accused Kaname for less … contradictions … great contradictions and double standards once again! Not to mention the infamous phrase … “the ends don’t justify the means” …

I'm not convinced the statement of Yuuki's is just about the conversation they are having. She's talking about their whole relationship ("why do things always end up like this") and Yuuki's concern here when coupled with her "treasure yourself more!" implies this round is about hurting Zero, though he's doing it to himself to help her. Her hesitation is not merely about taking what she wants violating the rule, but taking from Zero.

So it’s not about the rules but only for Zero’s sake. And what about her prior words; just 5 minutes ago that she won’t take blood from anyone else except Kaname? Don’t have any gravity; … her only concern is not to hurt Zero; … then her clarity/thirst is in question again, cuz she contradicts herself.

Agree though … she is referring to their whole relationship but including the current conversation … no?

I have already posted on another thread, that Yuuki maybe knows that she’ll hurt him back and that’s why she says “treasure yourself more” …

If she wasn’t hurt by Zero’s words and act then she wouldn’t say “each other” and maybe she’d take blood from his wrist, but she goes for his neck … Now, even if Zero wont react badly on her move, which I believe so, still she should know that biting him, on his neck is very possible that she’ll hurt him more, considering his past experience … Yuuki knows better than anyone else Zero’s suffering … and her last words “we’re always like this Zero” the moment she jumps on him implies that they keep hurting each other currently … not only Zero but each other viz Yuuki is hurt too and she’ll hurt him back.

Blackmail definition: (Fr. chantage) Coercing someone by threatening to disclose a compromising secret or other means of intimidation in order to gain unduly avail for himself or for another. means used for this purpose.

Z didn’t blackmail her. Blackmail's coercion. Y had two choices: accept or reject. She chose to accept his offer. Z kindly offered his blood for Y’s sake, not his. Z didn’t ask for anything in return. He’s giving her blood so her hunger can sate & she can focus on her goals: NC. It’s the exact same situation of Z/Y in arc 1, but reversed. Z's on Y's case like she used to be on his in arc 1. Y's acting like arc 1 Z & Z's acting like arc 1 Y.

yuuki's options were: drink my blood and I will not smash your school game and don't drink my blood and I will smash your school game.

Maybe he will not have a gain after that, but zero treatened yuuki. zero used a way to intimidate her: he will smash her school if she will not do it (drink his blood).

If zero requests would have been: drink my blood to ease your thirst or don't drink my blood if you don't want but without the treatening tone, then yes, we wouldn't have talk about a coercion.
But since he used an intimidating tone, we have a coercion.

aya-chan wrote:Blackmail definition: (Fr. chantage) Coercing someone by threatening to disclose a compromising secret or other means of intimidation in order to gain unduly avail for himself or for another. means used for this purpose.

Z didn’t blackmail her. Blackmail's coercion. Y had two choices: accept or reject. She chose to accept his offer. Z kindly offered his blood for Y’s sake, not his. Z didn’t ask for anything in return. He’s giving her blood so her hunger can sate & she can focus on her goals: NC. It’s the exact same situation of Z/Y in arc 1, but reversed. Z's on Y's case like she used to be on his in arc 1. Y's acting like arc 1 Z & Z's acting like arc 1 Y.

yuuki's options were: drink my blood and I will not smash your school game and don't drink my blood and I will smash your school game.

Maybe he will not have a gain after that, but zero treatened yuuki. zero used a way to intimidate her: he will smash her school if she will not do it (drink his blood).

If zero requests would have been: drink my blood to ease your thirst or don't drink my blood if you don't want but without the treatening tone, then yes, we wouldn't have talk about a coercion.
But since he used an intimidating tone, we have a coercion.

and again I quote this:

the faux blackmail of Zero's was irrelevant to Yuuki, at the end of the day, its all for Yuuki and its Zero who pays, she's troubled by his offer because of what it costs him.

and if I may quote myself as well:

Look at what Yuuki says: "Why don't you care about youself a little more?!" She knew the "blackmail" was only a coverage for him caring. As usual, he's willing to forget about his own feelings to help her, which in this case is his tsun way of telling her to get her act together, and doing something he never would have done otherwise, which is willingly let a vampire drink his blood. He was being honest in his own jerky way. If she continues to let her emotions and desires be so obvious, along with letting herself being treated like a doormat, and especially now with Sara's interference, her NC class would be in danger (or it pretty much already is). Hence Zero's "If you don't get your act together I will crush your school game." He knows without help she won't make it. And Yuuki knew right away this was his reasoning. I thought the moment shows how well they both know each other, he could tell she was struggling and would falter if she continued like this, and she immediately recognized the reason for his "blackmail", which her sentence clearly shows.

aya-chan wrote: yuuki's options were: drink my blood and I will not smash your school game and don't drink my blood and I will smash your school game.

Correct … not to mention that he cuts his wrist letting the blood flow, viz the smell … so how much space left to Yuuki for different options? Yuuki is in starvation, her thirst is all over her face (<< his words) so by cutting his wrist is another way to coerce her to drink his blood.

Correct … not to mention that he cuts his wrist letting the blood flow, viz the smell … so how much space left to Yuuki for different options? Yuuki is in starvation, her thirst is all over her face (<< his words) so by cutting his wrist is another way to coerce her to drink his blood.

Point is you make it sound like she bit him because he blackmailed her, when she doesn't even respond to the blackmail. In no way is she frightened by his words. Her concern is for him, making sacrifices for her sake as usual. And exactly, her hunger is obvious to a vampire, so Zero most likely knew she would give in. I know why you're doing this however, but if I can quote another comment of mine from MF

... we are still given additional reasons that could be used to argue about "why" she would bite him. Some say it's for the same reason she was attracted to Yori's blood, and/or that she's gone "crazy" from hunger. But I think Hino is intentionally adding more ambuigity like this, still leaving us guessing what her true feelings for Zero are so the conclusion can't be reached yet. It'll be the end before Yuuki answers the question she never got to; "What is Zero to me?"

I hope that's something we can agree about, at least.

Point is you make it sound like she bit him because he blackmailed her, when she doesn't even respond to the blackmail. In no way is she frightened by his words. Her concern is for him, making sacrifices for her sake as usual. And exactly, her hunger is obvious to a vampire, so Zero most likely knew she would give in. I know why you're doing this however, but if I can quote another comment of mine from MF

Exactly, my point ^^^… he bites his wrist in order not to left Yuuki much space not to drink his blood. Maybe is Hino’s way to cover Yuuki … will see…
And obviously his not doing that only for her sake … Yuuki’s thirst wouldn’t harm her in general … she’s not running any danger to die!

He concerns about her, about the well being of the DC, about their plans for Sara about their reputation etc…

I know why you're doing this

I’m doing what; and for what? Because I point out how different is NOW the picture from what so urgently/rabidly you Zekis tried to depict?
You were the one who said is pay back time … Not me …

... we are still given additional reasons that could be used to argue about "why" she would bite him. Some say it's for the same reason she was attracted to Yori's blood, and/or that she's gone "crazy" from hunger. But I think Hino is intentionally adding more ambuigity like this, still leaving us guessing what her true feelings for Zero are so the conclusion can't be reached yet. It'll be the end before Yuuki answers the question she never got to; "What is Zero to me?"

I hope that's something we can agree about, at least.

So now there are additional reasons … Let me refresh your memory then about what you were saying by quoting your previous posts… I’ll put them on a spoiler cuz I don’t want to bother/spoil the others …

Spoiler:

Reflect upon your behaviour and motives first before pointing with your finger others.

So now there are additional reasons … Let me refresh your memory then about what you were saying by quoting your previous posts… I’ll put them on a spoiler cuz I don’t want to bother/spoil the others …

Spoiler:

Reflect upon your behaviour and motives first before pointing with your finger others.

What? Sorry, but why're you digging up on that now when I wasn't even trying to be rude this time? I admitted I went too far and said in the end that I respected your arguments so that's why I'm saying now what I should have said that time. If that's not good enough for you, then sorry, I don't know what else I can do.

Holw4fun wrote: What? Sorry, but why're you digging up on that now when I wasn't even trying to be rude this time? I admitted I went too far and said in the end that I respected your arguments so that's why I'm saying now what I should have said that time. If that's not good enough for you, then sorry, I don't know what else I can do.

I didn’t dig up something you wrote months ago … just a few days before only, and all your posts were relevant with our current discussion/chapter.
I didn’t say that you were rude this time, but our writings remaining, so I have every right to use them to point out my view.

I didn’t involve you in this current discussion in the first place … Furthermore I didn’t understand that the purpose of your intervention was to show that you respect my arguments by saying …

Howl4fun wrote: Point is you make it sound like she bit him because he blackmailed her,
.
.
I know why you're doing this

But if you say so … I have no reason to continue this debate.

Holw4fun wrote: What? Sorry, but why're you digging up on that now when I wasn't even trying to be rude this time? I admitted I went too far and said in the end that I respected your arguments so that's why I'm saying now what I should have said that time. If that's not good enough for you, then sorry, I don't know what else I can do.

I didn’t dig up something you wrote months ago … just a few days before only, and all your posts were relevant with our current discussion/chapter.
I didn’t say that you were rude this time, but our writings remaining, so I have every right to use them to point out my view.

I didn’t involve you in this current discussion in the first place … Furthermore I didn’t understand that the purpose of your intervention was to show that you respect my arguments by saying …

Howl4fun wrote: Point is you make it sound like she bit him because he blackmailed her,
.
.
I know why you're doing this

But if you say so … I have no reason to continue this debate.

Okay then, if that offended I will take it back.

nina wrote:

aya-chan wrote: yuuki's options were: drink my blood and I will not smash your school game and don't drink my blood and I will smash your school game.

Correct … not to mention that he cuts his wrist letting the blood flow, viz the smell … so how much space left to Yuuki for different options? Yuuki is in starvation, her thirst is all over her face (<< his words) so by cutting his wrist is another way to coerce her to drink his blood.

I agree with your comment Nina, Zero is first "blackmailing" her to get his blood, not in the bad sense of the word but okay his statement is rough, not stated in a polite way, then he goes cutting his wrist there, so he is pushing against her tolerance, since she is in starvation. So this attitude is in fact distant from any "romanctic" behavior and I tend to think (but this point only the story can say), that at this phase and under the current circumstances, it very far away from also a romantic act. This does not seem to be his intention anyway..to act romantically that is.

So it's no really resolution there, seems like he is trying to achieve something there...don't know if you get my idea there.

So this attitude is in fact distant from any "romanctic" behavior and I tend to think (but this point only the story can say), that at this phase and under the current circumstances, it very far away from also a romantic act. This does not seem to be his intention anyway..to act romantically that is.

People are saying that Zero's being caring, not romantic, lol The only debatable "romantic" gesture here is Yuuki going for his neck. And note, I said 'debatable', so I will not argue with your (anyone, not you personally Juliet) opinion on that. Not anymore that is.

juliet wrote:

nina wrote:

aya-chan wrote: yuuki's options were: drink my blood and I will not smash your school game and don't drink my blood and I will smash your school game.

Correct … not to mention that he cuts his wrist letting the blood flow, viz the smell … so how much space left to Yuuki for different options? Yuuki is in starvation, her thirst is all over her face (<< his words) so by cutting his wrist is another way to coerce her to drink his blood.

I agree with your comment Nina, Zero is first "blackmailing" her to get his blood, not in the bad sense of the word but okay his statement is rough, not stated in a polite way, then he goes cutting his wrist there, so he is pushing against her tolerance, since she is in starvation. So this attitude is in fact distant from any "romanctic" behavior and I tend to think (but this point only the story can say), that at this phase and under the current circumstances, it very far away from also a romantic act. This does not seem to be his intention anyway..to act romantically that is.

So it's no really resolution there, seems like he is trying to achieve something there...don't know if you get my idea there.

I agree there his actions and his words has blackmail in it
but his intentions clearly don't. although his words are rude/coercive his intentions are good however I don't see the necessity of giving yuki blood? anyway...

the fact yuki was not scared by the blackmail doesn't null the fact that its a blackmail because in a sense his coercion did produce something, and that was to coerce her to make a decision to do the act of biting him

i also agree it was not meant to be a romantic gesture, but rather about satisfying needs and taking away something because of that.

the blood flow biting just seems to bug me. it was rude to just start it running, imo, its like putting an ice cold drink before a dehydrated person and saying if you don't drink that, i will crush your house.
ok but its not even a matter of life and death for yuki, was it? it was a matter of her failing or not in her career as Night Class starter, or maybe Zero doesnt want her to fail for something else? far more important?

nina wrote:
I never said that her blood told him that she didn’t need him or that she didn’t love him.

I was responding to Zero's quote about Yuuki being wrong about needing him, that Kaname was the one she needed and the theory it being her blood that told her this, you responded with "2. Yuuki’s blood doesn’t lie, no? … " etc.

My point was and still is, Zero isn't explicit on what Yuuki's blood told him and his statement is wrong. What Zero thinks and knows of their relationship isn't my point at all, yes I agree that Zero has an understanding of Yuuki's feelings based on what his observations through both Yuuki's blood and her attitude. But Zero is saying that Yuuki doesn't need Zero because she has Kaname. Zero might understands Yuuki's wants, he doesn't necessarily understand her needs and it is shown that yes, Yuuki definitely needs Zero.

From my understanding, Yuuki is more likely that was referring to Kaname because later says … “I can’t take what I want (with my fangs) cuz Kaname isn’t here”.

She calls herself weak. She says she can't take what she wants with her fangs. She's not just saying, she can't take what she wants, but also "with her own fangs". She speculates about what she wants with an unfinished sentence. She can't take blood cos the "person that allows me to do it is not around…". She not referring to him as the one she wants to drink from. I assume she still wants Kaname's blood, but she isn't focused on his blood specifically as her want.

Yes, Yuuki remembers the rule that she's only meant to take blood from Kaname and her affirmation that she would do it regardless, but she mustn't be all that strong about her conviction because minutes later she breaks the rule. Seems to me, that Hino only brought it up to remind us why that rule was imposed (because she admitted her attachment to Zero) and show us that she is now breaking that rule.

Back to the original point. She should take what she wants with her own fangs.
Zero offers her blood from his wrist and she chooses to bite him with her own fangs. If she were just ceding to blackmail and satisfying Zero's need to see her take blood, she would just take what was offered through his wrist.

Zero can’t communicate properly with Yuuki … Yuuki on the other hand, exposing her heart by saying that she wants to talk with him as they did in the past. She also tells him her worries. So she is honest with him and with her feelings/needs. And what she receives for an answer; >> rough treatment and rough words … “you’re a coward and I’ll smash your school-game”… mocking and hurtful words!

Yuuki is a coward and she called herself weak, but Zero doesn't call her that. Other than that, I agree, as I said Zero was particularly guilty of it, but Yuuki was hiding it too up until this point and then she burst like a dam. Zero has more to lose though by exposing himself and he's already revealed how he feels once, he's in love with her and he can't have her, she is with someone else. Is it fair for Yuuki to want to go back to how they used to be?

But I can’t stop for pointing out the way he shows his concern … and the funny thing is that all the Zeki are trying their best to justify Zero’s stance by emphasising on his good intentions, whereas in the past they had accused Kaname for less … contradictions … great contradictions and double standards once again! Not to mention the infamous phrase … “the ends don’t justify the means” …

You're assuming that Yuuki is offended or hurt by it. Zero's already pointed it gun at her and told her he's gonna kill her, this is sweet in comparison. Seriously though, Yuuki isn't hurt by it, she barely notices it in my view, Zero's methods are crude and he's just trying to get Yuuki overide her concern for him.

Agree though … she is referring to their whole relationship but including the current conversation … no?

I think its all too fuzzy to claim exactly what she means because she's not just talking about that moment and because I think its enough that Yuuki is worried about hurting Zero here to make that statement and include the current conversation.

I also think that Yuuki pretty much ignores Zero's threat because she's too focused on the blood, what Zero is offering and seeing what Zero is doing for her. I don't think he could hurt her with his words about smashing the school-game because
a) she claimed he would hate what she was doing (she's well aware of his attitude)
b) she knows it would be easier if she gave up, she's just worried about the consequences, she's doing the NC because she has to, she's not that emotionally invested it to be hurt by Zero's words.

sweetsolace wrote:
ok but its not even a matter of life and death for yuki, was it? it was a matter of her failing or not in her career as Night Class starter, or maybe Zero doesnt want her to fail for something else? far more important?

Yep Zero just doesn't want her to fail. His words to kaien in 69 were that she couldn't do it on her own and kaien agreed. He went as far as to tell aidou about it too. So, its not that Zero doesn't agree with what she is doing (his actual opinion doesn't seem important), but that he doesn't want her fail, she can stop it or she can succeed, those are her options, "failure is not an option".

Whether or not she actually needed the blood, well...I think Zero jumped the gun cos of his own experiences. Zero's not big on subterfuge, so I don't think he'd be tricking her for another reason.

Since VK is shoujo, and shoujo cliche has it that childhood friend always loses, so shouldn't we expect a Yume ending by default?

sweetsolace wrote:
ok but its not even a matter of life and death for yuki, was it? it was a matter of her failing or not in her career as Night Class starter, or maybe Zero doesnt want her to fail for something else? far more important?

Yes, we should wait for further chapters. Maybe Zero is aware that it is a life or death matter. After all, we haven't been let into this thoughts lately and we are not entirely sure as to what the Hunters are doing or what they know.