Kaname*s lovers....!?whe know about 2,but who is the mother of Kuran clan ???

First topic message reminder :

• We have seen that Kaname loved hooted women and now Yuki,but with who did he started the clan??
  Is she still alive,was it love or just desire..
  What do you think about Kanames past?
  Would he be in love with Yuki if she didn't "fall trough time" and met Kaname??

:Hehe:

solace kaname is not the type to show off his emotions other then anger, I can completly understand on him on this one, saying he didn't have a serius relationship with her cause he didn't cry when she died is implying your own habbits on him, I my self didn't cry right away when my mother, it tooks weeks and I only finaly cryed at her wake and even that was short lived thanks to the words and actions of one of my aunts, this dosen't mean I had no attachment to her or that I didn't love her, it is just that defrent people deal with defrent things in defrent ways.

In the end people deal with lose in defrent ways, not all those ways can be understood by other people.

nina wrote:
Now about these words from Kaname …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-10/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
… “I have to love someone in particular”(-->special?) … I understand that Kaname meant that he wants to love someone specific for to be able to take blood

That's a mistranslation. The hooded lady says that Kaname refuses to love anyone, he won't use his fangs on anyone and asks if he can really cheat his thirst so easily. Presumably so that he will not turn his fangs on someone he loves back when he was so unwilling to use them.

sweetsolace wrote:when the woman died kaname didn't even cry, even when he found out her dead body, there was no great reaction from him although her death undoubtedly had an impact. This makes me think that the attachment they shared was indeed a small one.

I don't think Yuuki thinks that, she notes that Kaname treasures her.
And Kanames thoughts on parting with her 'a parting that fills me with sadness and eternal remorse...as well as this feeling that I'm no longer alone...and the one filling me with all these feelings is the woman in front of me now...'

On top of that, he was avoiding growing close to anyone, he feared turning his fangs on his beloved, but she managed to create a small attachment, which I think was a pretty big understatement on Kaname's part and that she was incredibly significant to him. In a way, his feelings for her, that he tries to avoid, remind me a lot of Zero and his feelings for Yuuki.

@rum
Kaname did not LOOK like he grieved, this is my interpretation anyway that a death of a "love one" is supposed to affect a person deeply and show some emotion, Kaname didn't. if she was his "loved one" who "he loves so much" and she just died giving her life for him, and he saw her body, even someone like Kaname would show some emotion... (But he showed emotion when he first saw the warmth in yuki's eyes
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-64-page-29.html )

as for your experience, grieving is different for everyone just like you said it is, exactly, so why apply that analogy to Kaname? you have to give more CONCRETE examples about the depth of kaname's feelings for the woman because it doesn't tell deep for me, it says just as he says it is , "a SMALL attachment"

Knightmare wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:when the woman died kaname didn't even cry, even when he found out her dead body, there was no great reaction from him although her death undoubtedly had an impact. This makes me think that the attachment they shared was indeed a small one.

I don't think Yuuki thinks that, she notes that Kaname treasures her.
And Kanames thoughts on parting with her 'a parting that fills me with sadness and eternal remorse...as well as this feeling that I'm no longer alone...and the one filling me with all these feelings is the woman in front of me now...'

On top of that, he was avoiding growing close to anyone, he feared turning his fangs on his beloved, but she managed to create a small attachment, which I think was a pretty big understatement on Kaname's part and that she was incredibly significant to him. In a way, his feelings for her, that he tries to avoid, remind me a lot of Zero and his feelings for Yuuki.

I haven't mentioned anything about Yuki. Yuki doesn't think Kaname "treasures" her, but the woman was important to him, "a feeling of wanting to care for that person... and also that feeling of not being alone anymore" doesn't sound like coming from someone who's in love.

yes, the woman managed to create a SMALL attachment in him, but the question is IF they LOVE each other the way Kaname and yuki loves each other.

The woman WAS significant to Kaname, because of his words, "no one can be a replacement for a person..." he treated her with value and esteem. But I think that's as far as it can go when she died.

How much can you actually derive from a farewell "kiss" or a caress on the cheek asking her if she was ok, for you to think its similar with Zero and Yuki? LOL the rest of their actions actually tell of comradeship.

sweetsolace wrote: kaname said he "HAVE" to love someone... the use of the word "have" sounded like he needed to LOVE.. It was used together with the dialogue of the woman
"you think that if you do 'that' you'll be able to fool the demon that is your blood lust..? you're a fool, there's no way you can make yourself do that for eternity...." I think that by 'that' here she meant Kaname giving special offers to the villagers such as helping the sick and their livelihood in exchange for a little bit of their blood which he takes at night, he does this offers instead of just taking their blood or turning them into slaves. His words "I have to love someone" means he probably needs to feel love by giving it to the villagers before he takes something from them... hm just a thought

Yes I don’t disagree that he “have” to love someone … he was expressing his NEED.
Though I’m not sure about the “object” of his love
Was another being (in particular?) or the villagers as you said? There is our difference ;)
I interpreted that way cuz in the panels where are these words “I have to love someone in particular” and “ … for eternity …” is depicted Yuuki. Also the phrase “in particular” gives me the impression that is referring to ONE person and so it doesn’t fit so much to the villagers. Of course if the translation is accurate and the phrase “in particular” exists lol
However you’re right … the phrase “you think if you do that you’ll manage to fool the “demon” that the thirst is and be able to escape from endangering anyone with your fangs …” matches better to the villagers/humans.

So I don’t know maybe you’re right after all!

knightmare wrote: That's a mistranslation. The hooded lady says that Kaname refuses to love anyone, he won't use his fangs on anyone and asks if he can really cheat his thirst so easily. Presumably so that he will not turn his fangs on someone he loves back when he was so unwilling to use them.

The hooded-lady says or better “scolds” Kaname because he refuses to find some volunteers willing to be turned into servants by using his fangs, not cuz he refuses to love anyone.

Here …

http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-31/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html
And so she’s giving him, her blood and not as a favor but as an exchange for his power.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-32/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html

The phrase “ I have to love someone in particular” is more likely to belong to Kaname, or as if she repeats Kaname’s words, cuz then it goes … “ you think you can do that? ... you’re a fool”

http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-10/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

… so it doesn’t fit if the phrase “ I have to love someone in particular” belongs to the hooded-lady.

sweetsolace wrote: So.... I just remembered something... maybe the hooded woman died because she did drink the antivampire formula.. so in a way her body already equivalent to have been inflicted with an antivampire weapon... so when the hunters ate her blood and flesh she couldn't regenerate. Then lastly she tore her heart and threw it to the furnace, which basically meant she had plans to kill herself and the mission was suicide, as they both probably knew it.

Yes! Exactly … as if the metal soup/anti-vampire formula played the role of a blow from an anti-vampire weapon and diminished her ability to regenerate! So when she tore her heart that was the lethal blow for her! And of course was a “suicidal act” !

sweetsolace wrote: we may be onto something here..i always wondered why Yuki's hair instantly grew long when she turned pb... when she was human her hair was naturally long, and she cut it at some point (I wonder when?) however her hair when was was turned instantly had full regrowth!

Good remark about how instantly her hair grew longer after she turned into PB!!!!
I also think there is a meaning behind the long hair, the high heels, the dress etc. I mean I don’t think it’s just a whim from Kaname … I have a hunch that all of these are related with something significant … as if Kaname tries to trigger Yuuki’s memory?! As if he’s preparing her for something????!

Now Yuuki cuts her hair after the incident with Ruka … when she saw Kaname drinking from her! That it was a shock for Yuuki and I think she cuts her hair as a reaction to Kaname. After that also she distanced from Kaname and became more formal towards him … that incident was a turning point for the human Yuuki … she realized the difference between Kaname and her. That’s why I said earlier that the short hair represent the human Yuuki and the long the PB one.

You guys do realize when she said lend me your power it was before she knew anything about the antivampire weapon's that kaname figured out to create. Also when he showed her the soup for the first time, not only was it her first time seeing it but she also didn't like the idea saying it served no purpose.

Now as for his power at that point, when she said it, all she knew about him was that he had forgotten his name and that he was ran out of a village by the humans he was trying to protect, then for the first time she saw one of her kind collapse cause he refused to feed, I have to say considering these things I am not seeing as his power as you guys are seeing it is some thing I would desire for a war.

How ever there are defrent ways to lend ones powers, the hooded lady seemed to be the head of the resistince at that point, maybe she just wanted kaname to suport her.

People keep saying that kaname is the source for the av weapons, which is true to a point, mainly he learned to create them, however it has not shown that the av weapons derive only from him, when you consider the weilders of the weapons it makes it obvious who the kuran mother is unless kaname some how managed to get his blood into the hunters.

Hunestly people keep trying to look between the lines when there is no reason to. What is so wrong about a vampire falling in love 2 times?

This is the sentence I don't get
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/552%2F64_FMPWV%2F29-FYGQI.jpg
"this time I wanted to protect this warmth" so obviously, LAST TIME HE COULDN'T ,SO KANAME LOST HIS FIRST LOVE, I don't think It is referring to hooted lady,but mother Kuran.And also,Kaname only shown his true emotions with Yuki( like falling to his knees,desperate looks etc and maybe with Tamaki)but I don't think he dint graved over hooted lady, not in a lovers way, but more in companion/friend/ally way..He is deep emotional person and I don't think that he only shows anger,but passion and love too...He is the person who went trough so much and he learned how to keep some emotion under surface.

Rose wrote:This is the sentence I don't get
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/552%2F64_FMPWV%2F29-FYGQI.jpg
"this time I wanted to protect this warmth" so obviously, LAST TIME HE COULDN'T ,SO KANAME LOST HIS FIRST LOVE, I don't think It is referring to hooted lady,but mother Kuran.And also,Kaname only shown his true emotions with Yuki( like falling to his knees,desperate looks etc and maybe with Tamaki)but I don't think he dint graved over hooted lady, not in a lovers way, but more in companion/friend/ally way..He is deep emotional person and I don't think that he only shows anger,but passion and love too...He is the person who went trough so much and he learned how to keep some emotion under surface.

I so agree with you Rose, my thoughts exactly. Kaname has shown emotion and has even clearly stated to Yuuki that he loves her more than anything in the world. So who says that he can nnot express his feelings when he wants to? I tend to think that Kaname (by what we've seen) is even more passionate and sensitive than waht he even permits himself to show to Yuuki...

Plus why doubt his own words? "The moment that a small attachment was born into me, the lady had magnificantly achieved her goal". So his own feelings (not love, attachment ) - also notice that attachment is the word that Zero uses to describe his own feeling to Yuuki, when he can not pull the trigger- define a sort of relationship that can not clearly be defined.

But love is clearly stated like Kaname did with Yuuki anf I do not think that the world "attachment" can be used to describe such a big feeling as love. Is another element, totally different...

How ever there are defrent ways to lend ones powers, the hooded lady seemed to be the head of the resistince at that point, maybe she just wanted kaname to support her.

I guess at that phase, she did want his support, any kind of support, seems she obviously needed allies. But the fact is that SHE TOOK his blood or that was her intention anyway, that means that in the future time, Kaname's powers would blend into her..thus when we are reaching the weapons (even if you think that she only created them, no she did not, Kaname's blood was inside her already).

People keep saying that kaname is the source for the av weapons, which is true to a point, mainly he learned to create them, however it has not shown that the av weapons derive only from him, when you consider the weilders of the weapons it makes it obvious who the kuran mother is unless kaname some how managed to get his blood into the hunters.

He managed to get his blood to the hunters through the hooded woman and of course the hooded woman could have also used his formula (made from his won body parts) in order to get the anti-vampire power that also finally killed her (at least a part of her death is explained here).

The hooded lady was the progenitor of the hunters-but highly doubt she was the kouran's ancestor. There is no mention to her as the latest, not even Yuuki recognizes her as such, parts of her story (the kids?) are left out by Kaname (?)...why?
if Hino has left out the hooded woman's story and she is indeed the first Kuran lady..I do not know about you but I would consider this to be tragic. What her own descedants do not even aknowledge her existence?

I will try to addrese every thing I can in this post.
1st: kaname being the only source for AV weapons.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-4/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
In this picture he says our, not my, our meaning any pb.
2nd, she feeding on kaname, well I went thru the entire flash back and it shows him feeding on her, however it does not show her feeding on him, maybe I missed the page? If so please link it.
3rd, about why no one knows she is the ancester.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-30/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
This could explain why it is not common knowledge, she was obviously not liked for createing the hunters, I mean just look at how many vampires were killed by the hunters, so obviously she will take the blame and in past wars if a parent was not able to be attacked the people seeking revenge would often attack the offspring, which in this case could be the kurans, that is as good of a reason as any to keep it secret.
Lastly about her not being loved by kaname.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-9/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
Kaname not wanting to form any attachments and him regretting loseing some one, so kaname started with no attachments at all and he grew one with this one women, and it was strong enought to give him regrets.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-22/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
Painfull seperation that leaves you with nothing but an eternity of reproach as well as no longer feeling alone after meeting her, that is 1 way to define love.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-21/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
A feeling of wanting to care for a person, again another defenition of love, wanting to care for the person you love, (in this case it is not care as in feelings but care as in taking care of them, fulling there needs and desires).
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-17/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
A feeling of big importance for a person back when he cared for no one, again if that is not love what is.

sweetsolace wrote:
I haven't mentioned anything about Yuki. Yuki doesn't think Kaname "treasures" her, but the woman was important to him, "a feeling of wanting to care for that person... and also that feeling of not being alone anymore" doesn't sound like coming from someone who's in love.

Yuuki says Kaname gives her the feelings of "Someone I care about...someone whom I want to treasure..." ch63, vol 13 ChuangYi
My friend had already noted the absence of the word "treasure" in Sagakure's translation and the CY publication confirmed it.

Really? if Kaname said that Yuuki made him feel like he was no longer alone, I'm sure a lot of people would think it very romantic. Loneliness is a strong theme for Kaname, so someone reaching him like that gives me deep and meaningful vibes.

Kaname had a lot of feelings for this woman, but didn't acknowledge what it meant. He didn't want to love anyone, but this woman made him have feelings for her anyway. And I also think its made to be elusive, like the name of this woman, because her true impact on him is being kept secret for a later reveal as a strong motivation for what he is doing.

sweetsolace wrote:
How much can you actually derive from a farewell "kiss" or a caress on the cheek asking her if she was ok, for you to think its similar with Zero and Yuki? LOL the rest of their actions actually tell of comradeship.

Because asking if she was ok, is more than he ever did for Yuuki, he cares about Yuuki, but some courtesies are taken for granted. I love the comradeship, its what Kaname has been missing in his relationship with Yuuki and why they are so disconnected.

Juliet wrote:
But love is clearly stated like Kaname did with Yuuki anf I do not think that the world "attachment" can be used to describe such a big feeling as love. Is another element, totally different...

And yet despite this confession, Yuuki did not buy Kaname's feeling for her, she never accepted this as wholeheartedly true and honest, even after the revelations she's not certain of his love for her and thinks its mixed up in other things.

Knightmare wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:
I haven't mentioned anything about Yuki. Yuki doesn't think Kaname "treasures" her, but the woman was important to him, "a feeling of wanting to care for that person... and also that feeling of not being alone anymore" doesn't sound like coming from someone who's in love.

Yuuki says Kaname gives her the feelings of "Someone I care about...someone whom I want to treasure..." ch63, vol 13 ChuangYi
My friend had already noted the absence of the word "treasure" in Sagakure's translation and the CY publication confirmed it.

Really? if Kaname said that Yuuki made him feel like he was no longer alone, I'm sure a lot of people would think it very romantic. Loneliness is a strong theme for Kaname, so someone reaching him like that gives me deep and meaningful vibes.

Kaname had a lot of feelings for this woman, but didn't acknowledge what it meant. He didn't want to love anyone, but this woman made him have feelings for her anyway. And I also think its made to be elusive, like the name of this woman, because her true impact on him is being kept secret for a later reveal as a strong motivation for what he is doing.

sweetsolace wrote:
How much can you actually derive from a farewell "kiss" or a caress on the cheek asking her if she was ok, for you to think its similar with Zero and Yuki? LOL the rest of their actions actually tell of comradeship.

Because asking if she was ok, is more than he ever did for Yuuki, he cares about Yuuki, but some courtesies are taken for granted. I love the comradeship, its what Kaname has been missing in his relationship with Yuuki and why they are so disconnected.

well I'll just quote myself in answer:

sweetsolace wrote:"a feeling of wanting to care for that person... and also that feeling of not being alone anymore" doesn't sound like coming from someone who's in love.

yes, the woman managed to create a SMALL attachment in him, but the question is IF they LOVE each other the way Kaname and yuki loves each other.

The woman WAS significant to Kaname, because of his words, "no one can be a replacement for a person..." he treated her with value and esteem. But I think that's as far as it can go when she died.

they can feel the importance or significance of each other and not be in love. The woman can have as much impact on Kaname's life and Kaname may see her that way but he may not be in love with her. They cared for each other at a level that we haven't seen with his present relationship with Yuki, however take consideration that the woman's personality is vastly different from Yuki's in the first place and so this analogy fails in that every relationship is different, there are probably also some things that happened between the woman's death and his slumber that affected his ways with Yuki now:

In the past, Kaname was shown to be the submissive, helpful type, the one to be led along, it seemed like he had no direction and it was the woman who propelled him and asked him to "lend his power". He is much like Zero in this case and Yuki also noticed this as well:
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-62-page-30.html

The Kaname at present is different, he is more dominant and controlling, more clever and calculating but also passionate and just as gentle and kind. Something happened to make him change like this, and we haven't seen that. Thus this affects his interaction with woman and Yuki; they are different things.

Knightmare wrote:
And yet despite this confession, Yuuki did not buy Kaname's feeling for her, she never accepted this as wholeheartedly true and honest, even after the revelations she's not certain of his love for her and thinks its mixed up in other things.

what she's not sure of is he truly loves her, because kaname is hiding things from her, so she starts having doubts. i personally think its just all in yuki's head, because she did accuse kaname of doing something bad to Ruka prior to that when she saw her look down and depressed, when it wasnt true as he said, and she did just came back from the time travel where she saw hooted woman and kaname. Perhaps its jealousy that's corrupting her logic to doubt kaname's love, because as far as I'm concerned the man loves her enough to wait for her for 10 years, care for her, watch out for her... come on, that should speak for itself.

solace at this point it is not defenite that kaname feels a romatic love for yuki, there is defently love there but which type of love has yet to be shown. It is shown that kaname does not want to live with out yuki or more to say she is his reason for liveing, so that he can protect her warmth, there are defrent things that point to his love being that as a parent and a child, mainly his ability to change her as if it were no big deal, he often refers to her as a baby which she is compaired to him, the one sided relationship, one sided meaning kaname has all the power and the final say so, this is also apparent from her being punished when she got home after going out, in a normal relationship that would be called abuse, if this is a romantic love then no matter how you look at it kaname is a pedo lol

Noe just cause it can be looked at like this does not actualy mean this is how it is, however it is possible and the facts can be used to suport it.

I will try to addrese every thing I can in this post.
1st: kaname being the only source for AV weapons.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-4/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
In this picture he says our, not my, our meaning any pb.

Kaname is not the only source for AV weapons..obviously..since the anscestor lady gave her blood and her heart to make the weapons. But the original anti-vampire power could be solely his...and there is no point contradicting with this. Even if he said that "our", he judges that by using his own body parts and just his own. So is it valid to believe that he is right? No, his own judgement is limited to one person; himself.

2nd, she feeding on kaname, well I went thru the entire flash back and it shows him feeding on her, however it does not show her feeding on him, maybe I missed the page? If so please link it.

One thing we know for sure; his body parts do have the anti-vampire power or if they all had the anti-vampire power inside them, the ownership of the formula, that apparently was needed belonged to Kaname, the ancestor lady was a vassel. Isn't that obvious? She could not help the hunters prior to the formula, prior to Kaname. She had a hint that he would help her. Also for the "Lend me your power" part, I think it's suggested as she says that this favor will be attributed. I do not know how you understand it but this is what I make of it.

3rd, about why no one knows she is the ancester.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-30/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
This could explain why it is not common knowledge, she was obviously not liked for createing the hunters, I mean just look at how many vampires were killed by the hunters, so obviously she will take the blame and in past wars if a parent was not able to be attacked the people seeking revenge would often attack the offspring, which in this case could be the kurans, that is as good of a reason as any to keep it secret.

I was referring to Yuuki. Yuuki saw the memories, and she does not recognize her own Kuran ancestor? She mostly refers to her as "the woman", like she is a stranger to her.Does this make sense?

solace at this point it is not defenite that kaname feels a romatic love for yuki, there is defently love there but which type of love has yet to be shown.

Ouaou, now here I am amazed these are your points about the hooded lady;

Lastly about her not being loved by kaname.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-9/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
Kaname not wanting to form any attachments and him regretting loseing some one, so kaname started with no attachments at all and he grew one with this one women, and it was strong enought to give him regrets.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-22/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
Painfull seperation that leaves you with nothing but an eternity of reproach as well as no longer feeling alone after meeting her, that is 1 way to define love.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-21/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
A feeling of wanting to care for a person, again another defenition of love, wanting to care for the person you love, (in this case it is not care as in feelings but care as in taking care of them, fulling there needs and desires).
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-17/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
A feeling of big importance for a person back when he cared for no one, again if that is not love what is.

Now you support so much hooded lady-Kaname's love where he hardly did anything for her, calling his feelings an attachmnent, and we are doubting Kaname-Yuuki as a romance type relationship where he is watching her and protects her ever since the day she was born, talking with both his actions and his words? Now this is totaly logical...LOL...

It is shown that kaname does not want to live with out yuki or more to say she is his reason for liveing, so that he can protect her warmth, there are defrent things that point to his love being that as a parent and a child, mainly his ability to change her as if it were no big deal, he often refers to her as a baby which she is compaired to him, the one sided relationship, one sided meaning kaname has all the power and the final say so, this is also apparent from her being punished when she got home after going out, in a normal relationship that would be called abuse, if this is a romantic love then no matter how you look at it kaname is a pedo lol

well she is a baby, but not just in relation to Kaname but to all the vampire society; Aido had said that; that in relation to vampire society's standards Yuuki is a toddler. We saw her defying the dangers with Artemis, not understanding the importancy of her role as a Kuran, the dangerous power of her lineage that can make her a bait to other vampire's intentions.

Kaname as her ancestor, her brother (Yuuri entrusted Kaname with Yuuki's protection) has the obligation to protect her.

This fact does not cancel romantic love but neither romantic love cancels his obligation and need as a man and as an older vampire to teach and to guide the younger one that makes her first step outside.


It is an outopia to believe that romantic love justifies letting a person to cut his throat just to prove here that the boyfriend does not supress his naive girlfriend, or does not put barriers. At this phase Yuuki has no other familly to teach her, other than Kaname. She learned some things and took a part of his powers through his memories and blood...

Now he let her go- showing more trust to her powers and her abilities, so the more Yuuki grows up, the more he is freeing her from his guardianship.

On the other hand Kaien slapped Yuuki - and he is not even real familly but a foster father- assigned to that role by Kaname- yet nobody blames him for abuse.
Apparently because he is not seeing Yuuki romantically I guess. So Kaname has to take all the weight of the abuser and the pedo because it happens to have a double role in Yuuki's life?
But the one does not exclude the other...too bad that people do not understand the script that well.

juliet the part about the script also aplies to you, the only person who truly understands it how it is ment to be is hino, all the rest of us simply add our own values to it when hwe read it.

As for kanames love fore her, that was ment to show it can be seen in a defrent way, not that romantic love couldn't exist.

About cross slapping yuki, yuki drew blood on cross first, she had lost control and cause of that she did draw blood, so he slapped her to bring her back to her sences. Kaname how ever punished her for simply going out on her own after he told her to stay home.

Now about him letting her go, ignoreing part of the story there aren't we?
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/6
This is asking her to stay put, not go free.

Now back to the ancester issue, again the flash backs it showed are simply the memmories kaname wanted yuki to see. I highly doubt kaname will willingly show any romantic moments of his prior love intrest to his current love intrest.

In the end the question is simply about who kanames first lover was, and there is a an obvious choice on who it was, and instead of seeing what is there people are trying to trow timetravel into a story that has yet to show the ability just so that kanames first lover can be yuki when she isn't even technequly his current lover. I just dont see the point in going so far when there is already an obvious choice that is being completly ignored by you.

juliet the part about the script also aplies to you, the only person who truly understands it how it is ment to be is hino, all the rest of us simply add our own values to it when hwe read it.

As for kanames love fore her, that was ment to show it can be seen in a defrent way, not that romantic love couldn't exist.

It goes to all of us of course...but eventually calling a character pedo..when he just tries to protect a vulnerable and ignorant Yuuki, I tend to think that this not what Hino would like us to understand from her script...Anyway...

I am having a different point of view about Kaname's love with the ancestor. I believe that she affected him as a person, perhaps as a man, that they created a bond, an attachement..as it is said in the script.

I do not believe it's romantic because now we see Kaname in romantic love, he acts and speaks differently, is passionate, is expressive..in ancestor's case he just refers to an attachment, as long as it concerns the part of ROMANTIC Love. I think he tend to love her as his mentor in a way, as a comrade, not necessarily as a woman...Okay let's agree that we disagree...

About cross slapping yuki, yuki drew blood on cross first, she had lost control and cause of that she did draw blood, so he slapped her to bring her back to her sences. Kaname how ever punished her for simply going out on her own after he told her to stay home.

When did he punish her?

Now about him letting her go, ignoreing part of the story there aren't we?
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/6
This is asking her to stay put, not go free.

There Kaname expresses his final last wish (and hope) eventually that she won't go on with the path that she has already chosen. It is a wish of his part, nothing more or less. Kaname has already taken his decisions as he also knows that Yuuki has taken hers from the moment she took Artemis and got out of the house.

Points that show this:

1/ He says that he already knows the path she has chosen/she was born next to him.

2/ Yuuki as she walks at the corridor before meeting Ruka and Kain, thinks to herself "He has given me Artemis back, it's okay, he is telling me that I can change.

3/Upon leaving Kaname tells to her finally not to hesitate.

So this is the part that from the overall the story we are going to use against Kaname? the fact that he just expresses his wish for her not to interfere and enrisk her life? that's also called concern and love.

Anyway..

Now back to the ancester issue, again the flash backs it showed are simply the memmories kaname wanted yuki to see. I highly doubt kaname will willingly show any romantic moments of his prior love intrest to his current love intrest.

So she would not recognize the female ancestor? That to my ears sounds a bit crazy. It is not a matter or jealousy but of origins. Not even Yuuki should know her origins? but if that woman was her female ancestor couldn't Hino just put a panel there to show that she had left Kaname with descedants? this a weird.

In the end the question is simply about who kanames first lover was, and there is a an obvious choice on who it was, and instead of seeing what is there people are trying to trow timetravel into a story that has yet to show the ability just so that kanames first lover can be yuki when she isn't even technequly his current lover. I just dont see the point in going so far when there is already an obvious choice that is being completly ignored by you.

Techniquently Kaname and Yuuki have more kisses and there are more hints there that something happended between them, so techniquently they are lovers. With the hooded woman? where and how do we know that there are lovers? from where? he did not even see a kiss..
Solace correctly said that she was looking pale, kissing is a way to exchange energy and they could be doing this..or even whispering to his ear.

no the more, I think about it, where is the lovers passionate feeling? He would leave the mother of his kids to go away like this? these people seemed to have a distance between them..

rumland wrote:
As for kanames love fore her, that was ment to show it can be seen in a defrent way, not that romantic love couldn't exist.

that's for your consumption. I beg to differ. I find it odd though that after everything they have exchanged for one another, none of it was "romantic" love? the love shared between lovers?? He gets jealous over Zero, he does anything to keep Yuki, he kisses her skin, hugs her, tells her if she wants to become a monster like him... after Kaname had KISSED her again and again, that can still be considered something else other than Romantic? ?

..I am speechless.

rumland wrote:About cross slapping yuki, yuki drew blood on cross first, she had lost control and cause of that she did draw blood, so he slapped her to bring her back to her sences. Kaname how ever punished her for simply going out on her own after he told her to stay home.

ok get your facts straight...

first, cross slapped her first
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68/10

then her wings hit his cheek
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68/18

second, Kaname did not punish her solely because of him, Yuki also knew it was coming, the point is she was GUILTY that's why she was expecting punishment
http://www.mangareader.net/104-51058-30/vampire-knight/chapter-60.html
she was aware she had done something forbidden, for goodness sake they are in a relationship and she nearly bit Zero without intending it!

and quit making it sound like Kaname punished her badly, he just drained her blood by the neck and wrist, IMO that was already being lenient to someone who acted foolhardy and endangered herself on an impulse. Yuki nearly got herself KILLED because she defied his orders, and Kaname had to clean up her mess and punish Touma for it!

Now back to the ancester issue, again the flash backs it showed are simply the memmories kaname wanted yuki to see. I highly doubt kaname will willingly show any romantic moments of his prior love intrest to his current love intrest.

you're free to believe this exists but if it doesn't for me its as good as dead. let's agree to disagree, what you believe is not there.

In the end the question is simply about who kanames first lover was, and there is a an obvious choice on who it was, and instead of seeing what is there people are trying to trow timetravel into a story that has yet to show the ability just so that kanames first lover can be yuki when she isn't even technequly his current lover. I just dont see the point in going so far when there is already an obvious choice that is being completly ignored by you.

NO, its a question about LOVE. Remember? what kind of love, according to you.
Kaname already defined his feeling for the woman as a SMALL ATTACHMENT. THAT WAS WHEN SHE DIED. ERGO, IF THERE WERE "ROMANTIC moments" we haven't seen according to you, kaname would include it in his eulogy in the woman's death, but there he says SMALL ATTACHMENT. small. tiny. just small. how big can it get? when compared to Yuki there are TONS of pages to prove how they feel for each other, and let's not even get to that for another waste of time.
the time travel was part of the theory in discussion it wasn't "thrown in" and no, it wasn't used to support that Yuki was first lover, now I don't know where you got that idea from

what obvious are you talking about other than your belief that the hooted woman was the real thing? O.o

To solace, you are right on the slap I got them in the wrong order, however yukki was histaricle at the time umm maybe a little credit for that to make up for mistaking when the scratch happen? and if it was any other vampire hunter I doubt yuki would have only gotten a slap for acting that way sence she did need to be captured cause she was kanames finace.

To juliet, As for kaname and yukki's kissing to make them lovers, I have never once seen tongue... lol j/k, but it is the way they kiss, it just dosen't seem romantic to me. Ps about the kaname pedo thing, if a 30-80 year old man touched a 15-17 year old girl he would be a pedo, and kaname is 10k+, by defenition the term is correct, however it was not ment to be taken as seriusly as I get the impression you are.

Ok now back to the hooded lady, it is true that it has not shown her holding kanames kids or even her being pregnent, however it has not shown anyone else with his kids ether, I am argueing that the hooded lady is the most obvious choice right now, it has shown little to nothing of her or even kanames past, all yuki saw was small samples and it wasn't even enought to answer all the questions that needed answered.

I am just not seeing where you guys are getting the idea that yuki went back in time and mothered her own clan, I see no where in the story that it even sugests that, it as like you guys are saying we will just have to agree to disagree, you have your opions and I have mine and well will just just have to wait till hino proves me right and you wrong, lol... j/k

But yeah my whole problim here is I am just dont see why you guys think yuki has to be the ancester of the kuran clan, I mean even if she did go back in time she would be weaker then all the other pb's in a time of war cause you guys said it your selfs, ancesters are stronger then normal pb's. Not the mention this will also leave the future kaname alone, so why would yuki go back in time to marry a kaname she dosen't know? (past kaname is defrent from future kaname)

HMMM thats quite difficult but I think that Yuuki wouldn´t travel back in the past because..why should she do this? IT doesn´t make any sense....and furthermore i don´t believe that she will leave the "future" Kaname or Zero just to make the "past" Kaname happy of beeing his wife for a short time.Then leavin him in despair ...to travel back ...

rumland wrote:

To juliet, As for kaname and yukki's kissing to make them lovers, I have never once seen tongue... lol j/k, but it is the way they kiss, it just dosen't seem romantic to me. Ps about the kaname pedo thing, if a 30-80 year old man touched a 15-17 year old girl he would be a pedo, and kaname is 10k+, by defenition the term is correct, however it was not ment to be taken as seriusly as I get the impression you are.

Ok now back to the hooded lady, it is true that it has not shown her holding kanames kids or even her being pregnent, however it has not shown anyone else with his kids ether, I am argueing that the hooded lady is the most obvious choice right now, it has shown little to nothing of her or even kanames past, all yuki saw was small samples and it wasn't even enought to answer all the questions that needed answered.

I am just not seeing where you guys are getting the idea that yuki went back in time and mothered her own clan, I see no where in the story that it even sugests that, it as like you guys are saying we will just have to agree to disagree, you have your opions and I have mine and well will just just have to wait till hino proves me right and you wrong, lol... j/k

But yeah my whole problim here is I am just dont see why you guys think yuki has to be the ancester of the kuran clan, I mean even if she did go back in time she would be weaker then all the other pb's in a time of war cause you guys said it your selfs, ancesters are stronger then normal pb's. Not the mention this will also leave the future kaname alone, so why would yuki go back in time to marry a kaname she dosen't know? (past kaname is defrent from future kaname)

Instead of going back in time, how bad just seeing herself there because she was there actually...so she existed in the past (reincarnation theory) but in the little flashback that Hino provides we see Yuuki at the last scenes as she is today standing there (since she is wearing the uniform), just as we saw her in Kaname's position some panels before. I do understand Hino's trick with the clothes and the changes in the character's POV if she did not want to conceal something there...anyway its possible. Why not?

Was a premonition to the past more predictable or logical as event to happen? there are clues that hint, we have shown some.

As for your comment with Kaname, Okay, I wont take it seriously obviously refusing to make this thread a battle arena, even though it would not hurt some discrency (both fandoms) to get better along and discuss smoothly.

im so being confuse by kaname's words actually..
in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html he did said that no one can be a replacement to another, hadn't he?

but in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-17/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html he did said to yuuki that he did substitute Ruka for her?

honestly im about to have some suspicions about kaname and ruka's true relationship is all about..

could they be married already? because i remember one time during the party you know when Aidou's father ask Kaname to take his daughter to be his "Mistress" well why did he ask him to make his daughter a mistress and not as a Wife? could he be knows already that kaname is married? By that time no one knows that Kaname is in fact has some engagement with Yuuki since they were little.. since no one knows about Yuuki's existence as Kaname's younger sister?
anyone? what is your opinion?

Maybe he (Aido´s father )knows that his daughter isn´t good enough to be kaname´s wife because she isn´t a purblood like him...but on the other hand she is a noble lady so..you can say that he tries to "sell" his daughter to a purblood for a better reputation ....I don´t think that he knew the "true existence" of Yuuki because her parents have hide her carefully and all the persons who know anything about the Purblood princesse are already death or won´t betray Kaname ....

aerah08 wrote:im so being confuse by kaname's words actually..
in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html he did said that no one can be a replacement to another, hadn't he?

but in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-17/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html he did said to yuuki that he did substitute Ruka for her?

honestly im about to have some suspicions about kaname and ruka's true relationship is all about..

could they be married already? because i remember one time during the party you know when Aidou's father ask Kaname to take his daughter to be his "Mistress" well why did he ask him to make his daughter a mistress and not as a Wife? could he be knows already that kaname is married? By that time no one knows that Kaname is in fact has some engagement with Yuuki since they were little.. since no one knows about Yuuki's existence as Kaname's younger sister?
anyone? what is your opinion?

Kaname didn’t replace Yuuki in his heart with Ruka … he just took Ruka’s blood once, to calm down a bit his hunger for Yuuki’s blood … to avoid piercing her with his fangs before the right time. That’s why he said he was unfair with Ruka cuz he never could answer her feelings back.
I also have the feeling that Kaname wanted to distance Yuuki on purpose that time, in order not to visit him so freely in the night dorms to avoid any possible danger. Yuuki was a naïve human girl who didn’t have much experience with other vampires except from Kaname so it wasn’t the safest thing to go around the NC. If I remember correct he also suggested to her, to visit the night dorms along with Zero and not alone.

Pinacolada wrote:Maybe he (Aido´s father )knows that his daughter isn´t good enough to be kaname´s wife because she isn´t a purblood like him...but on the other hand she is a noble lady so..you can say that he tries to "sell" his daughter to a purblood for a better reputation ....I don´t think that he knew the "true existence" of Yuuki because her parents have hide her carefully and all the persons who know anything about the Purblood princesse are already death or won´t betray Kaname ....

You’re right Pinacolada …

Aido-dono couldn’t possibly suggest Kaname to married his daughter cuz even if she is a noble vampire, Kaname is a PB and on top of that a royal one, so the least he could ask was to make his daughter a mistress cuz most of the PBs are marry PBs to keep the superiority of their blood. In other words it would be like an “insult” if he asked from Kaname to make his daughter his wife. So if he could have a grandchild with the Kurans blood that would upgrade his social status and reinforce his family’s blood line and that would be enough for him.

nina wrote:

aerah08 wrote:im so being confuse by kaname's words actually..
in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html he did said that no one can be a replacement to another, hadn't he?

but in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-17/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html he did said to yuuki that he did substitute Ruka for her?

honestly im about to have some suspicions about kaname and ruka's true relationship is all about..

could they be married already? because i remember one time during the party you know when Aidou's father ask Kaname to take his daughter to be his "Mistress" well why did he ask him to make his daughter a mistress and not as a Wife? could he be knows already that kaname is married? By that time no one knows that Kaname is in fact has some engagement with Yuuki since they were little.. since no one knows about Yuuki's existence as Kaname's younger sister?
anyone? what is your opinion?

Kaname didn’t replace Yuuki in his heart with Ruka … he just took Ruka’s blood once, to calm down a bit his hunger for Yuuki’s blood … to avoid piercing her with his fangs before the right time. That’s why he said he was unfair with Ruka cuz he never could answer her feelings back.
I also have the feeling that Kaname wanted to distance Yuuki on purpose that time, in order not to visit him so freely in the night dorms to avoid any possible danger. Yuuki was a naïve human girl who didn’t have much experience with other vampires except from Kaname so it wasn’t the safest thing to go around the NC. If I remember correct he also suggested to her, to visit the night dorms along with Zero and not alone.

Pinacolada wrote:Maybe he (Aido´s father )knows that his daughter isn´t good enough to be kaname´s wife because she isn´t a purblood like him...but on the other hand she is a noble lady so..you can say that he tries to "sell" his daughter to a purblood for a better reputation ....I don´t think that he knew the "true existence" of Yuuki because her parents have hide her carefully and all the persons who know anything about the Purblood princesse are already death or won´t betray Kaname ....

You’re right Pinacolada …

Aido-dono couldn’t possibly suggest Kaname to married his daughter cuz even if she is a noble vampire, Kaname is a PB and on top of that a royal one, so the least he could ask was to make his daughter a mistress cuz most of the PBs are marry PBs to keep the superiority of their blood. In other words it would be like an “insult” if he asked from Kaname to make his daughter his wife. So if he could have a grandchild with the Kurans blood that would upgrade his social status and reinforce his family’s blood line and that would be enough for him.

Haha...exactly Nina...that's why Hino's editor (from her interview in the fanbook as Nuit had the kindness and the patient to post here https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t440-interview-with-matsuri-hino-from-the-original-fanbook) said that Kaname was pictured like a stud there at Aido's party and gave him nickname of a horse that's stud (don't remember it though)..

juliet wrote:

nina wrote:

aerah08 wrote:im so being confuse by kaname's words actually..
in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-24/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html he did said that no one can be a replacement to another, hadn't he?

but in this chapter http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-17/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html he did said to yuuki that he did substitute Ruka for her?

honestly im about to have some suspicions about kaname and ruka's true relationship is all about..

could they be married already? because i remember one time during the party you know when Aidou's father ask Kaname to take his daughter to be his "Mistress" well why did he ask him to make his daughter a mistress and not as a Wife? could he be knows already that kaname is married? By that time no one knows that Kaname is in fact has some engagement with Yuuki since they were little.. since no one knows about Yuuki's existence as Kaname's younger sister?
anyone? what is your opinion?

Kaname didn’t replace Yuuki in his heart with Ruka … he just took Ruka’s blood once, to calm down a bit his hunger for Yuuki’s blood … to avoid piercing her with his fangs before the right time. That’s why he said he was unfair with Ruka cuz he never could answer her feelings back.
I also have the feeling that Kaname wanted to distance Yuuki on purpose that time, in order not to visit him so freely in the night dorms to avoid any possible danger. Yuuki was a naïve human girl who didn’t have much experience with other vampires except from Kaname so it wasn’t the safest thing to go around the NC. If I remember correct he also suggested to her, to visit the night dorms along with Zero and not alone.

Pinacolada wrote:Maybe he (Aido´s father )knows that his daughter isn´t good enough to be kaname´s wife because she isn´t a purblood like him...but on the other hand she is a noble lady so..you can say that he tries to "sell" his daughter to a purblood for a better reputation ....I don´t think that he knew the "true existence" of Yuuki because her parents have hide her carefully and all the persons who know anything about the Purblood princesse are already death or won´t betray Kaname ....

You’re right Pinacolada …

Aido-dono couldn’t possibly suggest Kaname to married his daughter cuz even if she is a noble vampire, Kaname is a PB and on top of that a royal one, so the least he could ask was to make his daughter a mistress cuz most of the PBs are marry PBs to keep the superiority of their blood. In other words it would be like an “insult” if he asked from Kaname to make his daughter his wife. So if he could have a grandchild with the Kurans blood that would upgrade his social status and reinforce his family’s blood line and that would be enough for him.

Haha...exactly Nina...that's why Hino's editor (from her interview in the fanbook as Nuit had the kindness and the patient to post here https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t440-interview-with-matsuri-hino-from-the-original-fanbook) said that Kaname was pictured like a stud there at Aido's party and gave him nickname of a horse that's stud (don't remember it though)..

... he is a stud alright

Now I don't know where all these wrong interpretations coming from ... or do I?

what do you mean with wrong interpretations?

At present time Kaname is not married . Actually the only he will marry is Yuuki. His fiancee since she was a baby. Most probably during the past , prior to his slumber he was . But she has to be dead . ( This will make him a widower . )

Purebloods only marry other purebloods . That's a rule and a fact .

Purebloods indead act as studs for noble family females that their families want stronger and purer vampire genes . Or want to improve a political , social relationship with a pureblood .

Ruka could only dream of becoming Kaname's mistress . Never his wife . She knows this . She would accept this situation . If he wanted her as his mistress / lover .But she most probably would want exclusivity . No other mistress allowed except her .

In the case of Kaname with Yuuki in the past . Around her 12 - 13 years in appearance , Kaname started to cut contact with Yuuki . As he began to notice her developing as a young adolescent . Because he knows he loved her as woman . If he allowed himself near of Yuuki , he most probably would fall to the tentation to make her a pureblood vampire again . To reclaim her as his woman . He would have to break his promise to Juuri to keep her as a happy , innocent human . Safe from harm and danger of Rido or other people who could want to hurt her . His case is basically a man who desired a woman he loved . But knows he could not tell her his love . And of course couldn't bed her . But he found involved in situations he could try to have sex with the girl he likes . Hve to back - off for the good of the girl in question .

Pinacolada wrote:what do you mean with wrong interpretations?

I was talking about Ruka’s-Kaname’s relationship … since its crystal clear that is an unrequited love from Ruka’s part how could Kaname and Ruka be married?

Where is there any innuendo that Kaname could replace Yuuki with Ruka?

Like a wishful thinking sound to me but whateva …