Do you trust Maria Kurenai?

First topic message reminder :

hey i would like to know how do you find maria ..yeah of course Yuuki likes her and mention her as a friend but...remember yourselves....she had been spying kaname ..and she helped Shezuka to get in the Academie..and at last but not least the last chapter there she told yuuki to snatch zero away from her...I am not sure but all these things are quite suspiciouse...

@sweetsolace:

Thanks. From what I have seen, Maria actually asked Zero questions and said things concerning his hatred of vampires, which Yuuki (unless I am missing something or forgotten) has not done. And I think that maybe starting to make him think. The ones Zero is closet to like Yuuki, Kaien, and Yagari (again unless I missed something or have forgotten) all just give Zero a sad look when he starts spouting his hatred of the vampires. That's not going to help Zero at all. He needs questions asked and talk about it to be able to resolve his hatred of vampires, I think. And the only one I have seen really doing that so far is Maria.

Yes, Zero is such a sad person. He definitely needs real love.



@Katherine:

Indeed, when she first appeared it was all Shizuka. And even if she didn't agree to help Shizuka there was nothing she could do to stop her from using her. I definitely don't think she's planning something evil. For one reason, in my point of view, she's too simple minded to be planning anything. Indeed, Zero needs someone to truly and really loves him, and the only one I can see loving him like that is Maria. Sure she's first attracted to Zero because of Ichiru, but that doesn't mean it can't develope to be love just for Zero.

@Juliet:

Well, if Maria did fake the faint she was mighty good at it. And also, Zero sure fell for it easily.

@sweetsolace:

Thanks. From what I have seen, Maria actually asked Zero questions and said things concerning his hatred of vampires, which Yuuki (unless I am missing something or forgotten) has not done. And I think that maybe starting to make him think. The ones Zero is closet to which is Yuuki, Kaien, and Yagari (again unless I missed something or have forgotten) all just give Zero a sad look when he starts spouting his hatred of the vampires. That's not going to help Zero at all. He needs questions asked and talk about it to be able to resolve his hatred of vampires, I think. And the only one I have seen really doing that so far is Maria.

you're right, this is why I believe she has feelings for him as she asked him something that personally concerned his biggest issue, and the other reason why I believe Zero might love her is he opened up his biggest issue to her, when he did not towards Yuki. There's definitely potential there

you're right again, the others who are suppose to give a damn about Zero, being his closest colleagues and all (kaien, kaito etc) are just concerned if he's going to kill or not, which is more like they're wary of him, rather than concerned. Maria's focus on his hatred gets down to the root of his issue, and I think that's an important step to resolving it (other than the fact that no one else did other than her)

Yes, Zero is such a sad person. Sad He definitely needs real love.

yep and i think he can find that in Maria, who can love him fully. he deserves it to be loved.

Well, if Maria did fake the faint she was mighty good at it. And also, Zero sure fell for it easily.

good point. I didn't think about that.

there's also the fact that Zero didn't notice her coming before that. Maria even commented he was letting his guard down because he didnt sense a dangerous vampire, practically telling him she wasnt dangerous.

another thing is there's no proof or solid reason why she would be faking a faint. Except to flirt with him and get his attraction. which again made it clear that it had worked in this case since he did more than help her, he actually carried her in the most romantic way possible -- bridal style

There's no certainty that Zero would carry her either, as he's well known to be a huge snob. either she was doing all that to flirt with him or Zero's feeling pretty egotistical to think that was a flirt and it was for him

when it was clear she had a frail condition before

sweetsolace wrote:

you're right, this is why I believe she has feelings for him as she asked him something that personally concerned his biggest issue, and the other reason why I believe Zero might love her is he opened up his biggest issue to her, when he did not towards Yuki. There's definitely potential there

Indeed you are right. If she didn't have feelings for him, I can't see her asking something about his biggest issue. Only someone who truly cares about someone will ask things like that. The only others are those wanting to hurt the person, and it's very clear Maria does not wish to hurt him. Indeed, that is a big hint that Zero might love her, when he opened something up to her that big, when he never did for Yuuki. Yes, a lot of potential.

you're right again, the others who are suppose to give a damn about Zero, being his closest colleagues and all (kaien, kaito etc) are just concerned if he's going to kill or not, which is more like they're wary of him, rather than concerned. Maria's focus on his hatred gets down to the root of his issue, and I think that's an important step to resolving it (other than the fact that no one else did other than her)

Yes, they definitely seem wary of him instead of concerned. They really should try to help him resolve his hatred. Especially Kaien, who took him in all those years ago. And with just being concerned if he's going to kill really says they are too wary to do so. Yes, Maria sure did get down to the root of the issue. Important indeed. He can't ever overcome his hatred by things going the same and nobody saying anything. Nobody has said a word about it in all of these years, and if anything his hatred got worse, not better. So that's definitely not going to solve anything. Maria is the only one to have done anything to help resolve it. And I think it's starting to help him. At least make him think about it, which is huge.

yep and i think he can find that in Maria, who can love him fully. he deserves it to be loved.

I agree with you fully.

good point. I didn't think about that.

there's also the fact that Zero didn't notice her coming before that. Maria even commented he was letting his guard down because he didnt sense a dangerous vampire, practically telling him she wasnt dangerous.

Thanks.

Indeed. That just screams she's not dangerous at all and can be trusted.

another thing is there's no proof or solid reason why she would be faking a faint. Except to flirt with him and get his attraction. which again made it clear that it had worked in this case since he did more than help her, he actually carried her in the most romantic way possible -- bridal style

So true. No other reason except that. Yes, it definitely did work, for there is indeed other way is more romantic in carrying someone than bridal style.

There's no certainty that Zero would carry her either, as he's well known to be a huge snob. either she was doing all that to flirt with him or Zero's feeling pretty egotistical to think that was a flirt and it was for him

when it was clear she had a frail condition before

You are so right. There is definitely no certainty that he would, especially since he's the type that won't help if not needed of him. His personality definitely says otherwise. And a lot of girls have tried to talk to him and give him gifts, and all of whom he scared away. Indeed, Zero would have sure been feeling egotistical.

Divine Rose wrote:@sweetsolace:

Thanks. From what I have seen, Maria actually asked Zero questions and said things concerning his hatred of vampires, which Yuuki (unless I am missing something or forgotten) has not done. And I think that maybe starting to make him think. The ones Zero is closet to like Yuuki, Kaien, and Yagari (again unless I missed something or have forgotten) all just give Zero a sad look when he starts spouting his hatred of the vampires. That's not going to help Zero at all. He needs questions asked and talk about it to be able to resolve his hatred of vampires, I think. And the only one I have seen really doing that so far is Maria.

Yes, Zero is such a sad person. He definitely needs real love.

Completly agree!!!

Maria is asking questions that Zero needs to address, to me asking him such questions shows she is concerned about his wellbeing and wishes to know him better. Maria is asking questions i want Zero to answer and think about. None of the others have addressed the issue before. No-ones really asked him about it, they sort of just left it, and that doesnt help him at all, as he just continues in the vigious cycle of hate really. He wont be able to move forward or become HA president if he continues like this to me.

Yep Zero deserves love, his life hasn't been the easiest, he deserves happiness in the end. (Just dont want it with yuuki, she's kaname's.)

Bloodredhead wrote:

Completly agree!!!

Maria is asking questions that Zero needs to address, to me asking him such questions shows she is concerned about his wellbeing and wishes to know him better. Maria is asking questions i want Zero to answer and think about. None of the others have addressed the issue before. No-ones really asked him about it, they sort of just left it, and that doesnt help him at all, as he just continues in the vigious cycle of hate really. He wont be able to move forward or become HA president if he continues like this to me.

Thanks. Indeed it sure does show that Maria is concerned and wants to get to know him better. Which is one reason I think she likes him, for him. Not Ichiru. If she was just seeing Ichiru in him, I doubt she would ask all of that. Definitely want Zero to answer and think about those questions. He has lived in hatred for too long and it's time to let it go. Otherwise, how can he move on? He can't live like that forever. You are right; they just left him to brood in his hatred and that's not good. Definitely he wouldn't be able to move forward or become HA president. He lives too much in hatred and really the past at present. He needs to realize there are bad and good vampires just like it is with humans. He won't become a good president if he doesn't realize that. It would be foolish to make him president at present.

Yep Zero deserves love, his life hasn't been the easiest, he deserves happiness in the end. (Just dont want it with yuuki, she's kaname's.)

Totally agree!

Divine Rose wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

Completly agree!!!

Maria is asking questions that Zero needs to address, to me asking him such questions shows she is concerned about his wellbeing and wishes to know him better. Maria is asking questions i want Zero to answer and think about. None of the others have addressed the issue before. No-ones really asked him about it, they sort of just left it, and that doesnt help him at all, as he just continues in the vigious cycle of hate really. He wont be able to move forward or become HA president if he continues like this to me.

Thanks. Indeed it sure does show that Maria is concerned and wants to get to know him better. Which is one reason I think she likes him, for him. Not Ichiru. If she was just seeing Ichiru in him, I doubt she would ask all of that. Definitely want Zero to answer and think about those questions. He has lived in hatred for too long and it's time to let it go. Otherwise, how can he move on? He can't live like that forever. You are right; they just left him to brood in his hatred and that's not good. Definitely he wouldn't be able to move forward or become HA president. He lives too much in hatred and really the past at present. He needs to realize there are bad and good vampires just like it is with humans. He won't become a good president if he doesn't realize that. It would be foolish to make him president at present.

Yep Zero deserves love, his life hasn't been the easiest, he deserves happiness in the end. (Just dont want it with yuuki, she's kaname's.)

Totally agree!

I think she likes him too, ichiru may have been what made her consider but i think she truly has feelings fo him. As you say why ask such questions if you dont have an interest in it. And her little fangirling moment last chapter was very sweet!!!

Precisely there are good and bad human too. Lets think about the previous association president for one. Nothing can be black and white as in all humans are good all vampires are evil. Its a persons character, actions and choices that define if they are good or bad not their race, gendre, species etc.

Bloodredhead wrote:I think she likes him too, ichiru may have been what made her consider but i think she truly has feelings fo him. As you say why ask such questions if you dont have an interest in it. And her little fangirling moment last chapter was very sweet!!!

Totally agree! Ichiru was just what made her consider Zero.

Precisely there are good and bad human too. Lets think about the previous association president for one. Nothing can be black and white as in all humans are good all vampires are evil. Its a persons character, actions and choices that define if they are good or bad not their race, gendre, species etc.

Indeed. That president was evil. Yes, it's not that simple at all. Got to look at the individual person indeed. And really Zero is quite the racist.

i really cant tell anymore if maria is somehow involved with sara but i never likes her......she is so imature!!i mean she never had a descent conversation with zero and what??!!she fell for him??plz....only 5 year olds do that......the only reason that she likes him is that she sees ichiru in him....

RavenBlack wrote:i really cant tell anymore if maria is somehow involved with sara but i never likes her......she is so imature!!i mean she never had a descent conversation with zero and what??!!she fell for him??plz....only 5 year olds do that......the only reason that she likes him is that she sees ichiru in him....

I partly agree with you, Maria's reasons are neither the best (from a romantic point of view) nor the most convincing (for the readers), in why she is so much interested in Zero right now.

but as Divine Rose said, and actually that is a good point, this "Ichiru" attraction can be the perfect excuse in order for them to get closer, and finally Maria to see the real Zero and fall for him.

Right now I believe that the whole thing is just an infatuation of some kind but certainly Hino can use it as a good excuse to create something greater there...

juliet wrote:

RavenBlack wrote:i really cant tell anymore if maria is somehow involved with sara but i never likes her......she is so imature!!i mean she never had a descent conversation with zero and what??!!she fell for him??plz....only 5 year olds do that......the only reason that she likes him is that she sees ichiru in him....

I partly agree with you, Maria's reasons are neither the best (from a romantic point of view) nor the most convincing (for the readers), in why she is so much interested in Zero right now.

but as Divine Rose said, and actually that is a good point, this "Ichiru" attraction can be the perfect excuse in order for them to get closer, and finally Maria to see the real Zero and fall for him.

Right now I believe that the whole thing is just an infatuation of some kind but certainly Hino can use it as a good excuse to create something greater there...

maybe its how people think that Maria is "instantly" in love with Zero. Maybe she's not, and she is just attracted/infatuated/etc for Zero because of Ichiru and shizuka, that doesn't make her attraction false. Or distrustful.

That doesnt make her faint false or fake either with little evidence.

i just think its too premature to say "she's not right for Zero" "she will be heartbroken" "she only likes his blood" "she's fake" etc when
-its clear its too early for that, and there's always potential for more development between them as long as Zero is open for it and Maria too
-maria didnt show enough of her attraction to zero to rule out she's only fangirling him for blood

important thing is, i think
-maria meant good for zero when she asked important questions
-he answered the important questions that no one asked him before

I find that Zero's important developments are rushed though so it might explan why, IF hino plans to make maria and zero a couple, the development is "instant"
just like zero visiting ichiru's grave. so rushed. and in one afternoon zero became human.
sometimes i pity zero

sweetsolace wrote:maybe its how people think that Maria is "instantly" in love with Zero. Maybe she's not, and she is just attracted/infatuated/etc for Zero because of Ichiru and shizuka, that doesn't make her attraction false. Or distrustful.

That doesnt make her faint false or fake either with little evidence.

You are completely right.

And I know there are romance stories where the girl liked a guy, but it wasn't returned or something happened to tear them apart. And then later she falls for the brother.

i just think its too premature to say "she's not right for Zero" "she will be heartbroken" "she only likes his blood" "she's fake" etc when
-its clear its too early for that, and there's always potential for more development between them as long as Zero is open for it and Maria too
-maria didnt show enough of her attraction to zero to rule out she's only fangirling him for blood

So right.

Way too early. Just have seen a little. And indeed, she did not show enough attraction to be just a fangirl. Fangirls tend to act crazy and give the person they are fangirling lots and lots of praises. They're are hardly interested in other things like Maria.

important thing is, i think
-maria meant good for zero when she asked important questions
-he answered the important questions that no one asked him before

Indeed!

I find that Zero's important developments are rushed though so it might explan why, IF hino plans to make maria and zero a couple, the development is "instant"
just like zero visiting ichiru's grave. so rushed. and in one afternoon zero became human.
sometimes i pity zero

Yes, poor Zero. Things changes so fast for him. His life is like a whirlwind or something.

Bloodredhead wrote:

Divine Rose wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

Completly agree!!!

Maria is asking questions that Zero needs to address, to me asking him such questions shows she is concerned about his wellbeing and wishes to know him better. Maria is asking questions i want Zero to answer and think about. None of the others have addressed the issue before. No-ones really asked him about it, they sort of just left it, and that doesnt help him at all, as he just continues in the vigious cycle of hate really. He wont be able to move forward or become HA president if he continues like this to me.

Thanks. Indeed it sure does show that Maria is concerned and wants to get to know him better. Which is one reason I think she likes him, for him. Not Ichiru. If she was just seeing Ichiru in him, I doubt she would ask all of that. Definitely want Zero to answer and think about those questions. He has lived in hatred for too long and it's time to let it go. Otherwise, how can he move on? He can't live like that forever. You are right; they just left him to brood in his hatred and that's not good. Definitely he wouldn't be able to move forward or become HA president. He lives too much in hatred and really the past at present. He needs to realize there are bad and good vampires just like it is with humans. He won't become a good president if he doesn't realize that. It would be foolish to make him president at present.

Yep Zero deserves love, his life hasn't been the easiest, he deserves happiness in the end. (Just dont want it with yuuki, she's kaname's.)

Totally agree!

I think she likes him too, ichiru may have been what made her consider but i think she truly has feelings fo him. As you say why ask such questions if you dont have an interest in it. And her little fangirling moment last chapter was very sweet!!!

Precisely there are good and bad human too. Lets think about the previous association president for one. Nothing can be black and white as in all humans are good all vampires are evil. Its a persons character, actions and choices that define if they are good or bad not their race, gendre, species etc.

I like Maria. She allowed that Hiou had used her body, I guess
she wanted to stop being weak. Must be a shame to be a weak noble. Like Ichiru, the son of noble hunters, weak.

She is fragile, but she proves to be able to address her questions openly. Yuki doesn´t, it´s a little pathetic.

Maria has lots of potential, in my view. She could be very important to Zero. But ...

1) To me, the real reason that led her to go to NC: she was looking for Ichiru.

2) I will takeZero for me.

3) She sees that Ichiru is within Zero. She discovers that he died.

4) After these events she starts acting like a fangirl. It seems a little
Yuki at the beginning of VK (kaname). A little more exaggerated.

5) This can only indicate two things:

- Maria and Zero will be a couple. I do not like This is because Matsuri
developing it in a bad way. In this case, it seems that Maria is a
ridiculous consolation prize for Zero. It reminds me of Fruits Basket.

- Maria is being used to show that no one can replace else: Zero can not replace Ichiru, and Maria can not replace Yuki.
The theme of "replacement" was introduced by Kaname in history. Matsuri
has the habit to use mirrors into the narrative. The same questions will be
answered by all the characters. The story allows the question: Is Yuki being used as a substitute?

Now, this same question is used in ZeroxMaria: Is Zero being used
as a substitute?

Well, Maria is a trustworthy person. This is demonstrated when she
faces Sara and also Yuki. She is on Zero´s side. She does not see him
as a friend. She sees him as a man. But it is early to say whether this
going to be something more than a fantasy

Considering that the story took a leap now, with KanamexKaien I
really do not see room for ZeroxMaria. Will Matsuri develope it satisfactorily?

Because sometimes, I think Zero best single and independent.

I like the idea of Zero and Maria. I honestly think there is a possibility for them, because why would on chapter 71 the very last pages where the list of the members of nightclass be this on Maria Kurenai's memo:

apparently, she has some kind of connection to Ichiru. Perhaps she's special to Zero due that comnection.

Kind of odd actually. Why would Matsuri place such thing, but I am probably looking into things to much

But one question who says there won't be an open ending for them. Because I do agree it would be rushed and instant, especially on Zero's side.

@vanille-chan: You made some good points

To go on abou this topic:
I feel like it will be rushed, but not because of maria's sudden crush. It think it's a very possible reaction. But....People have been saying there can not be a zeki ending because there are not enough chapters left to evolve. Then how about zero and maria?? Zero has not shown the slightest interest in her. In the entire arc they've only had a couple of concversations. I think it's not maria's love that would be rushed , but a relation ship between them would. It took years for zero to trust Yuuki.


I would not be satisfied with zero and maria ending up. I'd simply have the feeling Hino did it because zero wouldn't end up alone. I'd prefer that ending above a very fake relationship. (Also zero is not a person to suddenly fall for someone else)

I really did agree with Anneliezz and Vanille.Can about Zero/Maria pairing. I would be like just setting him up for setting him up. If Zeki hasen´t any chance by now. Maria/Zero don´t have any hope. I have said it before the reason he isn´t mean to both Maria or Sayori is because they have a person they both miss. It´s just my opion but I think that Zero is alone for now (maybe alone forever but
don´t hope so) for showing that no one can replace Yuuki. Just like when Kaname said that no one can replace the hodded woman. But still that´s just my opion

Anneliezz wrote:@vanille-chan: You made some good points

To go on abou this topic:
I feel like it will be rushed, but not because of maria's sudden crush. It think it's a very possible reaction. But....People have been saying there can not be a zeki ending because there are not enough chapters left to evolve. Then how about zero and maria?? Zero has not shown the slightest interest in her. In the entire arc they've only had a couple of concversations. I think it's not maria's love that would be rushed , but a relation ship between them would. It took years for zero to trust Yuuki.


I would not be satisfied with zero and maria ending up. I'd simply have the feeling Hino did it because zero wouldn't end up alone. I'd prefer that ending above a very fake relationship. (Also zero is not a person to suddenly fall for someone else)

I said an open ending. Not Zero/Maria together in the end, but an hint that would be chance they COULD happen, because I agree it would definitely be rushed ESPECIALLY on Zero side, because of his trust issues. So no I do not want that for Zero. What I truly want for Zero is an open ending that he is happy, and can open his heart to someone else, but unnecessary actually happening in the story.

theangelgirl1992 wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:@vanille-chan: You made some good points

To go on abou this topic:
I feel like it will be rushed, but not because of maria's sudden crush. It think it's a very possible reaction. But....People have been saying there can not be a zeki ending because there are not enough chapters left to evolve. Then how about zero and maria?? Zero has not shown the slightest interest in her. In the entire arc they've only had a couple of concversations. I think it's not maria's love that would be rushed , but a relation ship between them would. It took years for zero to trust Yuuki.


I would not be satisfied with zero and maria ending up. I'd simply have the feeling Hino did it because zero wouldn't end up alone. I'd prefer that ending above a very fake relationship. (Also zero is not a person to suddenly fall for someone else)

I said an open ending. Not Zero/Maria together in the end, but an hint that would be chance they COULD happen, because I agree it would definitely be rushed ESPECIALLY on Zero side, because of his trust issues. So no I do not want that for Zero. What I truly want for Zero is an open ending that he is happy, and can open his heart to someone else, but unnecessary actually happening in the story.

In with you angel. Its a consideration for the future, it would be rushed for them to be a romantic pair at the end, but a hint at a future relationship could happen and i hope it does.

Wow, Zero is really very damned. He had no luck in the past,in the present and the future is a "promise of happiness that will not
be watched by the reader "

Frustrating for a Zero fan. But very likely indeed.

Pinacolada wrote:hey i would like to know how do you find maria ..yeah of course Yuuki likes her and mention her as a friend but...remember yourselves....she had been spying kaname ..and she helped Shizuka to get in the Academie..and at last but not least the last chapter there she told yuuki to snatch zero away from her...I am not sure but all these things are quite suspiciouse...

It seems the hot topic these days is Maria and the potential for a relationship with Zero. First thing would be addressing the thread opener by Pinacolada..

Maria did do all these things plus warn everyone that Kaname killed the vampire senate, which shows she is not bound by loyalty to the Kurans or Yuuki: Maria is her own agent. The girl is going to do what she wants...regardless of politics. Maria is unique because she is a wild card character who does not have ties of allegiance to the Kurans, or in the past, the senate. Who she was loyal to was Shizuka, who went rogue and was not controlled by the senate, and is now dead. Maria might have an interesting role to play later on in VK because of her lack of allegiances...

I have no suspicions against Maria...nothing I have seen seems to show some lack of morals or anything...

***********************

About Maria and Zero: Bloodredhead and others are rooting for the possibility of Maria x Zero ship. I can't agree on the possibility primarily because of the origin story of Zero. The reason why he is living now is because Yuuki stopped him from committing suicide and donated her blood to stop him from descending into a Level-E. He sleeps every night with a gun that once belonged to Yuuki. That does not fit the profile of a person open to a relationship with someone else.

Also, not all people need to be in a relationship to be happy. The way I see it, if Yuuki does not end up with Zero for endgame....he will be happier single than with someone who cannot replace Yuuki in his heart.