Α forum dedicated to Hino's Matsuri best-seller manga Vampire Knight and the manga we love
The question “what story are you reading?” is the most common and you are not the only one who wonder … at some point I’d started to think that there is a secret version of VK totally different of the known one out there
However another factor is the complexity of the story … we cannot overlook that too. You can see from yourself … you’ve said how many times you have read the story and yet every time you discover something “new”. The same goes for me … I have lost counting how many times I have read it as a whole or parts of it and most of the times I discover new perspectives or new ways to connect the pieces.
It is inevitable … for someone who wants to grasp this story must know it in depths and the “mistakes” or ambiguities that the online translation contain certainly is another hindrance (<< maybe this is also the reason of why Japanese audience love Kaname more even Zero's fans and as far as I know the same goes in East generally).
while Eastern people seems more Yume than ever! I had another proof today. I subscribed to a manga's lovers page on Facebook, and the admin was sharing a lot of Kaname's image (she's obviously one of the few Italian fans in love with Kaname). Then she made a poll: Kaname or Zero? And almost everyone was like "Zero! Zero! Obviously Zero!!!", as Kaname was a sort of weed, a character that absolutely nobody can love. 
but the sense of the story doesn't change at all. So, I think it's simply a problem of attitude. “I haven’t read the entire story … or I haven’t read the chapters of Kaname’s past cuz they had to much Kaname and I dropped it … or I do not remember the story cuz I have read it ages ago……”
) a lot of people simply skipped what you were saying. When I found the "Zero being a rehincarnation of HW"'s theory, a lot of posts followed with sentences like "Oh, well, I didn't read it at all, it's too long" or "Oh, I just read two lines, then I had a headache". I think this is their everyday reading attitude, and this just explains everything.
the underground war that takes place with backhanded methods is fiercer and discouraging
(Please don't misunderstand, I bought that manga. I liked the story and Igarashi's drawing style. Still, as for the plot, we cannot compare them at all - VK is much more structured and complex).
Well, they are used to simple plots like this, so they think: "Well, there's a love triangle. Now she loves Kaname. But Zero loves her too, so obviously Kaname will disappear and she will love Zero. It happened in Georgie (replace with the name of a shoujo in which happened), so it must be that way."
They simply can't go deeper, they don't want to go deeper. Maybe this is definitively what will happen in VK. Still, how can you be happy being the third wheel? That was my first thought when I read Georgie's ending.
I think that the problem is Kaname's too smart and unpredictable, so they are confused and can't foresee a sure, comfortable ending. He's messing up all this sparkling vampires story, so they hate him, because they can't simply understand what is going on. Zero, instead, seems so impulsive and predictable (until now)... that's why he's the good one
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end?
by aya-chan Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:11 pm
Duskola wrote:
Well. What kind of story are they reading??? O__O Surely NOT VK.
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by Duskola Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:42 pm
For me some things are not a matter of preference there are valid judgements coming out of script that you can not deny: example; Yuuki says that she can not live with Zero. Chapters ago she had said that the only thing that she desired was Kaname; so why to doubt that fact?
What? She now says that she chose Kaname and that she can't live with Zero? Oh, well, surely something will happen, that will make her change her mind. After all, love is not forever. Isn't it?If Zeki happens, it will happen, i shall accept it as it is.
We'll enjoy every single minute of the HOT scenes that are going to be... 
... if you know what I mean... 
Example - yuuki was never turned into a human by her mother. theory based on yuuki's blood sweet taste. but the same reader probably skipped juuri's word "I will turn you into a human."
I cannot think about anything silly enough to complete the sentence!! Yuuki's sentece "I won't give blood to zero because I want to respect him" was interpreted as "yuuki wants to give her blood to zero but she's afraid he won't accept."
obviously. Oh my! I see it's much more worse than I thought. Well, but thet DO say something that's not "I would play bad games with Zero-chan/Kaname-chan" or some other early-teenager-admission, so it's still better than reading some forums here in IT! I hope kaname will not be blamed for the global warming.
oh, but he IS the real cause of the global warming, well, they say there was climate change when vampires came out, it's HIS fault, it's OBVIOUS!!!! It's CLEARLY written in the manga!!!! Oh my!Yes, I agree, and she has always been coherent. She's clearly in love with Kaname from the first few panels of VK. I think the doubt in Zeki fan is mostly created and fed (and from Hino's own will) by the fact that Yuuki cares for Zero and likes him, and she says to Kaname that Zero is in her heart, too. Yes, but the wonderful thing in Hino's VK is that she reminds us in every page that "human" heart is complex. None of the characters is completely evil, or completely good. None of the characters has simple and clear feelings. Because they reflect our reality.
Me too, and even if I will cry in the inside, well, as you say, it's Hino's story. She will surely put this out splendidly. I will be disappointed only if she writes some silly chapters and ruins everything of this complex and beautiful plot. This would be really painful. But then, Zeki, Yume, who cares? Let's enjoy VK as it is, and if we read them while others are not, well, good for us! We'll enjoy every single minute of the HOT scenes that are going to be... ... if you know what I mean...
oh, but he IS the real cause of the global warming, well, they say there was climate change when vampires came out, it's HIS fault, it's OBVIOUS!!!! It's CLEARLY written in the manga!!!! Oh my!
there is still ground however for the economical crisis and the disappearance of the dinosaurs... I do not know about the first but for the latest i am almost certain!!!
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by mariangie Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:01 am
oh, but he IS the real cause of the global warming, well, they say there was climate change when vampires came out, it's HIS fault, it's OBVIOUS!!!! It's CLEARLY written in the manga!!!! Oh my!
Kaname is guilty of both global warming and the last Ice Age . His recent crimes are creating the Sahara , Death Valley and Gobi deserts . His sentence will be death by volcano . Takuma will be the one to toss Kaname inside . Zero and Yuuki will make a rainy dance to call snow and freeze the lava . 
Kain will perform a wedding ceremony over Kaname's ashes . 
With Maria and Aido as witness . Zekis' dream end . 
the underground war that takes place with backhanded methods is fiercer and discouraging
NOT ! 
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by kanachanimmortal Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:06 am
mariangie wrote:oh, but he IS the real cause of the global warming, well, they say there was climate change when vampires came out, it's HIS fault, it's OBVIOUS!!!! It's CLEARLY written in the manga!!!! Oh my!
Zekis already accused him of that crime .
Just kidding !!!!!
In a more serious note ( sort off ) :
Duskola , if you have notice so far . These are the top Zeki reasons to justify their ship .( random order )
1- I love Zero because he is sexy . The " I'm sexy and I know it ! "
2- I want Zero to end with Yuuki because he has suffered too much . The " I pitty Zero " .
3-Kaname has manipulated both Yuuki's and Zero's feelings . The " I hate Kaname " .
4- Kaname is the worst criminal alive .He deserves to die . The " Kill Kaname ! " reason .
5- Kaname never sated Yuuki's blood lust and Zero did . The " Sated " reason .
Zero has always being an easier character to understand than Kaname . Zero has no hidden agenda . He is the typical tsundere character . A dog with all bark and no bite . The story even insinuates he is like a puppy doggie following Yuuki incondicionally . ( See chapter 86 for an example .)People already know Zero loves Yuuki . A person who suffered so much . But make people out of his life to avoid others suffer . There are many things for people to empathize Zero .
In the case of Kaname , he is playing the Prince Charming / Demon King part . Not the usual Shojo character. Who most of time has no facial expression . Nor readers knows his intentions . More difficult to predict . As he usually doesn't give clues if he is a good or bad guy . He is too gray to guess which side he is playing . To understand him , the reader needs more perception of what in reality Kaname is trying to do . More difficult to emphatize .
the underground war that takes place with backhanded methods is fiercer and discouraging
You have no idea . This is V.K.W. 1
Vile Kaname Warlock the first !
It's just Vampire Knight War One .
With Zekis and Yumes as the principal sides .
See manga forums elsewhere for details .
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by Duskola Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:51 pm
so let's chill and enjoy
let's drink tea for the love of God (as Kula Shaker say) and read AAAAAAALLLL VK 
you've been WONDERFUL, I read and read again your post and I can't stop laughing. Ooooooh my Zero, I would really like to play with you on our desks pleeeease coooome at school with meeeee :Q____
or maybe not so OT? )
Duskola wrote:aya-chan wrote: I hope kaname will not be blamed for the global warming.
Let’s face it aya … Duskola is right … Kaname is indeed responsible for the global warming … rumours has it that his HOTNESS increased the average global temperature 100 degrees hahahahahaWell, they are used to simple plots like this, so they think: "Well, there's a love triangle. Now she loves Kaname. But Zero loves her too, so obviously Kaname will disappear and she will love Zero.
Juliet wrote: For me some things are not a matter of preference there are valid judgements coming out of script that you can not deny: example; Yuuki says that she can not live with Zero. Chapters ago she had said that the only thing that she desired was Kaname; so why to doubt that fact?
in the same sense if Yuuki had shown to us reader through her POV or her actions that she feels for Zero in the same sense as for Kaname, apparently i would not deny. Yes, that would not be my preference but it would be stupid at the same time to deny the script's point and insist on my own perceptions about what would have been better and more fair and bla bla...
If Zeki happens, it will happen, i shall accept it as it is. I can say my opinion about Hino and say that for this and that reason i disagree but i would not bash Zero over that.
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by kanachanimmortal Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:00 pm
Duskola wrote:aya-chan wrote: I hope kaname will not be blamed for the global warming.
Let’s face it aya … Duskola is right … Kaname is indeed responsible for the global warming … rumours has it that his HOTNESS increased the average global temperature 100 degrees hahahahaha 
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by KuranPrince Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:57 am
nina wrote:Duskola wrote:aya-chan wrote: I hope kaname will not be blamed for the global warming.
Ok and after the mini break back in serious mode lol
Well, they are used to simple plots like this, so they think: "Well, there's a love triangle. Now she loves Kaname. But Zero loves her too, so obviously Kaname will disappear and she will love Zero.
Agreed. Also if someone wants to make comparisons then IMO has to take note the genre… and I’m not talking only about the general label shoujo because there are shoujo smuts for example and shoujo more conservative. Thus you cannot compare such manga and your example, L. Georgie, is a shoujo by far more liberal regarding romance and sex themes from VK. Therefore I agree with your observations and for me solely for that reason (if not for many other) Yuuki cannot be compared with Georgie or with other heroines that do not match with Yuuki’s profile.
However for shoujo where the heroine is a young maiden, too pure, a bit naïve, a bit weak etc (i.e. like Yuuki) there are some norms that the authors usually follow … f.e. the first kiss … is a very important moment and often is indicative … or the phrase “I will protect you” is another cliché, etc… There are some “golden norms” that usually the mangaka follow without ofc saying that there aren’t exceptions… there is …
Although, this also doesn’t mean that all the exceptions are successful or being “accepted” from the audience as such.
As for our story; also my objections for the above notion that you mentioned are:
a) If the author wanted to make a twist later regarding Yuuki’s love interest IMO she should’ve had kept a better balance between the two boys till now. And in this case I do not mean towards Zero but especially towards Kaname … she shouldn’t have put in Yuuki’s mouth so strong words, so passionate declarations of love firstly to maintain a balance towards the other party (Zero cuz his case lacks romance) and secondly simply because it is difficult to take them back without the heroine to be labeled as frivolous, flippant, superficial if not something worse…
And let me bring a few examples … when Yuuki states that “even if Kaname lies to me” or even worse “if he betrays me I don’t mind, my love cannot change for him” blah blah then if and when this happen Yuuki must honor her words. And this actually happened, no?
Or when Kaname disclosed to her his “sins” in the beginning of the 2nd arc Hino put Yuuki to say >>
“I don’t mind if you’re tainted! Then taint me too… I love these hands… I want to descend to the bottom with you…”
>> … very very strong words that I do not know how Hino can take back or why to put them there in the first place especially when for the other party (i.e. Zero who supposedly would have been Yuuki’s choice in the end) doesn’t have the equivalent. And there are so many similar examples and more recent…
In short … if the author wanted to change course for me as her reader it would be more right and decent from her end to keep the tone down and for the Yume.
b) Another factor which reinforces the above; is the time and the space that she has “consumed” for Yume. Now with 86 chapters already, this factor is even stronger cuz why an author to spend the ¾ of its story focusing on Yume, full with Yume romance in order to have in the end another couple? … To put it in general lines … we will have a Yume love story mainly, with a Zeki end? O.O
One even could say that both fandom would have a feeling of being “cheated” … something would be missing from both.
I’m not saying that she cannot do it … it is her story ofc… but I’m questioning why to choose such course now (???) and ofc as her reader who buys her work I preserve my right to criticize…
Again I would find it more understandable if she had done that earlier and the truth is that she had plenty opportunities to do so, especially after Kaname left Yuuki … the time that she has spent at the academy would have been the perfect excuse to start building the romance between Yuuki and Zero at least to start balancing between Yume and Zeki.
But again what we saw is a firm Yuuki, stating that “I belong to Kaname” … and after what Kaname has done or said to her I do not think that if I add the phrase “no matter what” to Yuuki’s “I belong to Kaname” would be an exaggeration…Juliet wrote: For me some things are not a matter of preference there are valid judgements coming out of script that you can not deny: example; Yuuki says that she can not live with Zero. Chapters ago she had said that the only thing that she desired was Kaname; so why to doubt that fact?
in the same sense if Yuuki had shown to us reader through her POV or her actions that she feels for Zero in the same sense as for Kaname, apparently i would not deny. Yes, that would not be my preference but it would be stupid at the same time to deny the script's point and insist on my own perceptions about what would have been better and more fair and bla bla...
If Zeki happens, it will happen, i shall accept it as it is. I can say my opinion about Hino and say that for this and that reason i disagree but i would not bash Zero over that.
Co-sign!!!!
I have said it before … what I see thus far (plot wise) is an effort from the author to prove Yuuki’s love for Kaname not only with words but also with actions in this second half of the 2nd arc … that her words weren’t just hot air >>
- If he betrays me… >>> he did (at least in Yuuki’s eyes) because he abandoned her and took back his promise to start over and live for the eternity together
- If he lies >> he did that too…
- If he is tainted … >> Kaname even claimed that he is responsible for Zero’s drama … i.e. for the guy who supposedly (according to some fans) is Yuuki’s true love …
>> and yet Yuuki not only she didn’t convert her love interest but again she connected her life, her fate to Kaname whereas synchronously disconnected her life from Zero’s >> “I cannot live with you” … This little phrase also conveys the message that Yuuki knows Zero’s romantic feelings for her and yet her choice is again Kaname >> and this time; nothing, nothing bound her to choose Kaname since he claims that he abandoned her… nothing except her feelings of course.
I’m saying this because many fans up until now supported that Yuuki didn’t know how Zero was still feeling for her, hence she didn’t have a choice… but apparently she does.
Of course needless to say that all these are my own perspective based on the indicative clues that we have thus far and I want to stress it out again.
And btw … because I’ve heard a lot of criticism and contestation (and this is an understatement lol) regarding Yuuki’s line “I belong to Kaname” like she sees herself as an object >___> … as IF it is ONLY Yuuki who has used such a line when we have plethora of novels, movies, poems, lyrics with the phrase “I belong to you, you belong to me” as the ultimate proof of love and devotion! …
Thus I have to remind Hino’s own words since she is the author of this story and her views bearing the greater gravity >>
“They belong together” … I guess this speaks louder than anyone else’s subjective concept about what love is or how should be
Or Kaname is Yuuki’s object as well … so be it
@Duskola Hino-sensei has stated that she knows the end of her story from the beginning … it’s not only your impression but it is a fact.
I have many things to comment on your observations but I’ll save them for later since this post turned out too long again lol
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by Duskola Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:20 pm
I like LONG smart posts and the fact that I'm not the only one writing so much about VK ooooh happiness!!!
@Duskola Hino-sensei has stated that she knows the end of her story from the beginning … it’s not only your impression but it is a fact.
. What I wanted to say, is that SHE KNOWS there are smart fans like us searching for hints everywhere. So she's simply playing wih us 
Aaaaah Hino, you're wonderful EVIL HINO
Although, this also doesn’t mean that all the exceptions are successful or being “accepted” from the audience as such.
And btw … because I’ve heard a lot of criticism and contestation (and this is an understatement lol) regarding Yuuki’s line “I belong to Kaname” like she sees herself as an object >___> … as IF it is ONLY Yuuki who has used such a line when we have plethora of novels, movies, poems, lyrics with the phrase “I belong to you, you belong to me” as the ultimate proof of love and devotion! …
). Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by kanachanimmortal Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:17 am
Duskola wrote:Ooooooh nina your posts are always wonderful
@Duskola Hino-sensei has stated that she knows the end of her story from the beginning … it’s not only your impression but it is a fact.
Oh well, maybe there was a misunderstanding: I've always thought that SHE KNOWS, as she is the author
Still, I have to edit a bit what I wrote about anime's openings and novels. I think that we have to distinguish between real hints and symbols, that is very difficult - if not impossible. I think there are a lot of symbols that Hino uses, a sort of leitmotiv to describe Yuuki and Kaname's love story.
For instance, she likes representing VK both like a fairy tale and a chess game (that is why it's called VAMPIRE KNIGHT). Kaname is obviously the prince/king, Yuuki the "kind princess"/(queen in chess?) and Zero the knight.
Being Yuuki and Kaname the prince and princess of a tale, it's natural to talk about some sort of spell above them that prevents their love and happiness. This spell can be represented by Yuuki turned to human in the first part of the story, by the current vampire society, and so on.
Let's take the opening of the first anime series as an example. We see Yuuki running on a chessboard, that is a symbol of all games between PBs. Then she tries to drink some blood from a phial, and Zero shoots. This is another symbol of what's going to happen with Rido in the second anime series, when Rido tries giving Yuuki his own blood, then Zero kills him. But how can you guess it right, if you haven't read the manga or seen the second anime series? It's impossible. Symbols are not real hints, because they are distorted and unclear.
So, I think that all this talking about breaking mirrors and butterflies has most of all a symbolic meaning.
When in the second opening Yuuki walks into the dark forest (another symbol) alone, and stands alone on the sand, this probably refers to the current arc of the story, in which she has to fight alone. The only thing that I worry, is that she's all alone, neither Zero nor Kaname around. But still, maybe this doesn't mean anything at all, it's only a distorted symbol of the current situation. And surely we won't understand anything until the manga completes,
Although, this also doesn’t mean that all the exceptions are successful or being “accepted” from the audience as such.
Yes, you're right. By empathyzing Zero, it's natural that Zekis absorb his hatred and inferiority complex towards Kaname. But refusing all evidence regarding Yume and persisting with their hatred, they are also admitting that Zero will always have a reason to hate Kaname, that he is inferior and would never evolve. And this is even more sad.
Regarding the fact that now it's too late to make Yuuki change her mind, you're totally right once again. From the very beginning, we see Yuuki dreaming about Kaname, we see her blushing when he approaches, we hear her heart bumping, and so on. We don't see any of these love symptoms towards Zero, never. When he tries and kiss her, she simply feels embarrassed and wants to believe in Zero's absurd explanation. She also thinks something like "Sorry, Zero, but Kaname has always been my world, the one that gave me the strength to go on". That is really an unsaid refuse, until chapter 86.
Yuuki would easily sacrifice herself for the ones she cares about, and she is always coherent in her behaviour: she wants Zero to be happy and find a reason to live. She wants him to survive. She has never gone beyond this until now. Zero knows her true feelings from her own blood, from the very first time he took it from her. And blood doesn't lie.
Yuuki NEVER says "I desire to s*ck all Zero's blood, I want him so much, oh my!" No, these are strong vampire's feelings that she feels only for Kaname. She takes blood from Zero only when she's forced. Her wings doesn't come out for Zero, but for Kaname. Oh well, I could go on for hours, so I won't bother you more than this. What I want to add is, that something VERY serious (NOT Kaname's death) must happen for princess Yuuki to change her mind and become the knight's lover. But for now I can't think about something serious enough that could also preserve the perfect structure of the plot. I will let Hino surprise me. And if she changes path suddenly after 86 chapters, well, that surely would be a surprise
And btw … because I’ve heard a lot of criticism and contestation (and this is an understatement lol) regarding Yuuki’s line “I belong to Kaname” like she sees herself as an object >___> … as IF it is ONLY Yuuki who has used such a line when we have plethora of novels, movies, poems, lyrics with the phrase “I belong to you, you belong to me” as the ultimate proof of love and devotion! …
I belooooong to youuuuuuu and youuuuu youuuu belong to meeeee tooooooooo (Lenny Kravitz cit.
I agree, I don't think Yuuki is acting for her sense of duty. And Hino's words are the final proof. Furthermore, as Kaname always lets Yuuki completely free and is always disposed to part with her for her own happiness, I absolutely exclude that HE sees HER as an object. And everybody with the slightest wit should exclude this, too =__=
Then, what should Zekis say? That Hino was manipulated by Kaname, too???
" Hino-Gollum Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by kanachanimmortal Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:08 pm
Duskola wrote:@lucykaede,
And maybe her true purpose is to kill him indeed, so that she can cover all her walls with pictures of HIM NONE OF US will NEVER SEE... :Q_______________
"It's mine... it's aaaaalll minnneeeeee... myyyyy PB-Preciouuuuusssss
Well, if this happens, I hope she'll compensate all of us with HOT ENORMOUS PICTURES of EVERY SINGLE VK MALE CHARACTER, shirtless, or even more... :Q________
Still, I don't think that will be enough... Oh our beautiful prince Kaname, don't throw away your life... just throw away your clothes
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by SecretWhiteRose Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:28 am
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by kanachanimmortal Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:34 am
SecretWhiteRose wrote:
- Spoiler:
Please check out Zero and the hooded woman white knight theory to understand why i think this outcome,can find link in my sig,or go to zero forums for the topic,Its possible spoiler so please read at your own choice.
The Hooded Woman Heart aka The Weapons will return to the body( Zero)
Meaning That zero is the Hooded Woman reincarnation all along.He is also carring her genetics in blood,Once the Hearts(weapons) returns to the body(Zero).
Zero will be Pureblood.he will get his past memories back..
meaning his past self fell for kaname who is a kuran.Most likely the hooded woman loved kaname,but he was in love with a other woman(kaname future wife) Later the Hooded woman learns of kaname plans,and sacrifices herself for kaname,wanting him to live on with the woman he loved,and also helping the humans aswell,since her parents where humans.Making the hooded woman a kind selfless person who put others needs before her own.
his current life self also fell for Yuuki who is a kuran.now dosen't this sound familiar(facepalm)history repeating again,with the outcome zero sacrifing himself to the kurans. kaname/Yuuki
also it is quite popular theme in vampire stories,where the vampire meets his past love who is reborn 100+ years later if they find them
so I can't say it was a success. So, it was you who created and spread this theory? Great! ^^ so that we can enjoy aaaaalllll those chambers, too 
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by mariangie Thu Dec 20, 2012 8:16 am
Re: How do you think Vampire Knight is going to end? by lililovelilica Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:44 pm
Thu May 27, 2010 7:52 pm by cleone
Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:26 pm by jojo.wilson.969
Thu Jan 24, 2013 1:03 am by LANA_DEL_REY
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