Who is best for Yuuki? Kaname or Zero?

First topic message reminder :

Who best fits Yuuki? Who is made for her? Zero Or Kaname? And why?



OR




I know both are but what about what Yuuki needs?

solar wrote:Hello, Juliet:

Long story short, 牙を立てた was used twice in Yuuki's thought. The actual meaning of 牙を立てた is "bite with fangs" or "strike fangs into" and is not "extending or growing her fangs with few more inches/cm in length". For more details, you will need to read my earlier post again.

Thank you Solar for the clarification.

Thanks for sharing the translation, Solar.

I think that Kaname is the best fit for Yukie,but I think that she loves Zero more

audraliann wrote:I think that Kaname is the best fit for Yukie,but I think that she loves Zero more

no proof. except for the awkwardness and the hints. might as well be an imaginary hint.

Okay so I’m going to go over several points, factors and arguments to do with yume, that i have seen in this thread and others like it. I ask you to just be open-minded when reading this, as I know some of you might not agree with what I say, but it’s another perspective which is essential to the story. Here's why i belie Yuuki should be with Kaname.

1) Love declarations.
Both sides in Yume have openly declared their love for the other, and those around them knew they held the other in a very special place. Zero and Yori knew how Yuuki felt about Kaname, and Takuma, Kain and several of the other vampires, picked up how their leader paid special attention to Yuuki, and protected her. Remember Kain asking Kaname why he paid special attention to Yuuki? http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-29/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-30/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html
People noticed how they both treated the other above, and differently to everyone else.

2) Protecting.
Kaname has protected Yuuki from day one. He protected her from Rido when he attacked the Kuran mansion, he protected her from the vampire in the snow http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-2/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her when she went to meet and greet him in town by scaring the vampire away http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-27/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her by having her stay with Cross as his adopted daughter, he’s always been protecting her. Also Yuuki has protected him too. After Rido was defeated yagari pointed a gun at Kaname, who was the one to stand in front of Kaname? Yuuki http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-27/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html . He might not have needed the protection, but the act itself showed she wished to protect him.

Also everyone ‘has a go’ at Kaname for him keeping Yuuki in the Kuran mansion for a year when he had very good reasons for keeping her in, mainly her own protection. Firstly, for the first 6 months Yuuki was trying to get to grips with being a pureblood vampire, and was having difficulties with her human side http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-28/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html . If Kaname had let her out then there would probably have been a high risk of her getting hurt or hurting someone else. To me both of these outcomes would not have been good. Secondly, the world outside wasn’t safe for Yuuki, this was proven when she first left the house and was wounded when attacked by another pureblood (Touma). She is basically a baby at the moment. She had only just accepted her vampire side, and started taking blood with her own fangs. So it was logical and natural for Kaname to keep her at the Kuran mansion safe until she could fend for herself, and until there was stability in the vampire community which he was working towards.

3) Changes.
Yuuki has loved Kaname at every turn of her own accord. When she was a child she wanted to be with him like her parents http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-25/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html, when she was human (after forgetting who he was) she still wanted to be with him and fell in love, when she turned back into a pureblood she still loved him http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-24/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html , and when he revealed who he really was Yuuki declared he was the only Kaname for her, http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-15/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html so yeah she still loved him. Her love has stayed for him through all her changes and their relationship changes; to me that show’s she truly loves him.

4) Acceptance.
Yuuki has accepted Kaname when he told her of his, so called ‘sins’ and about his tainted hands. Yuuki then says she loves his hands, and if he is tainted then she wants to be tainted too, and fall to the farthest depths with him. Yuuki’s words not mine.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-32/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
She also accepted him when she found out that he wasn’t her real brother. She didn’t reject him; she wishes to start again, which shows she is serious about their relationship. She wishes to start at a point where she knows who he really is, and build a relationship from her acceptance of who he is and on an equal level. Now if you didn’t love a guy and didn’t want to be with them, why bother restarting? With Kaname leaving it has put brakes on their restart, but it’s also given Yuuki the opportunity to sort her feelings for Zero and bring some form of closure on that. I see this as being beneficial to the Yume relationship, as Yuuki can then go after Kaname with a whole and open heart.

5) Trust and belief.
From what I’ve seen of Yuuki recently she still believes in Kaname and I think this is key. She has neither stated if she agrees or disagrees with his action recently, but she can’t really voice an opinion when she doesn’t know his plan. However her being angry and upset with Kaname allowing his name to be ‘dragged through the mud’ to me shows she believes he has the right intentions. She also doesn’t like seeing him being seen as a bad person.

Kaname has also shown his trust in Yuuki by revealing his past to her. He put faith in her by letting her see his memories and declaring his ‘sins’ to Yuuki, even if it meant she wouldn’t touch him again, he wanted her to know. He basically left himself open and sort of vulnerable, which for him is quiet a big show of faith. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-20/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
It shows how serious he is about their relationship, as his character entails a very secretive nature. He doesn’t give much away due to his upbringing, his station and the world around him. Yet he has opened up to Yuuki a lot more than anyone else. Expecting him to come clean about everything at once would to me be too much, though he is opening up more and more with Yuuki. It shows growth in his trust and growth in how he views his relationship. One step at a time is good for building a solid, trustful and strong relationship.

I will admit I think Kaname needs to open up even more and keep a lot less secrets, but I believe he will do in time.

6) About HW.
Now I do believe Kaname cared for her, and she is someone who was an important existence to him and probably still is in some respects. I don’t however what to address their relationship (as it’s a separate relationship), but I’d like to put my view of why I believe regardless of Kaname’s feeling for HW, he loves Yuuki more. One thing that makes me believe this is when Kaname asked Yuuki to give him a new name http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-20/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html . Now if he cared more about HW, then why would he let something she had given him be changed? Things given to you by the one you truly love, you don’t just in effect give away, you strive to keep and protect them. To me the answer is simple, although he valued her; he values Yuuki more hence why, he was going to let Yuuki change his name. Her being comfortable and reassured means more to him then something given to him by HW. Just my perspective on the matter.

Also in response to claims that Yuuki is just a replacement, I’ll quote Kaname here. “No person can be a substitute for another.” So I think he has answered that question himself.

7) Goals.
Both have similar goals. They wish for co-existence and to protect not just their loved ones but innocent people as well. Yuuki has shown this when Rido attacked instead of going to a safe place she stayed to protect the academy and its students (chapter 41). Kaname has shown this when he told ruka in chapter 74 to make sure the humans were kept away for their own protection.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/74/29

Both of them wish for vampires and humans to live peacefully side by side. Kaname helped found cross academy with Kaien cross, and Yuuki has always shown her support for vampires and humans to get along. So they are both working towards a common goal. To me it brings them closer together, and in a way they are in-sync with each other, in their beliefs and goals.

Also one of Kaname’s goals has been to make it safe for Yuuki to be out in the world, and safe from harm. I know a lot of people go on about the image of Yuuki in chains, but they always fail to mention the other image that went with that one. (The one of Yuuki free with flowers.) http://www.mangareader.net/104-51058-5/vampire-knight/chapter-60.html Even though part of Kaname wishes to lock her up; he is working towards the other alternative where Yuuki is free. He is striving for this not the one of her being chained. That’s what counts. That is one of his goals.

8 ) Family relationship.
I know a lot of people don’t like the idea of the incest part of the yume relationship. So I wanted to point some things out that I think people should think about when going ‘eww’ at the idea.

In vampire culture it is a common practice for families to inter marry. Vampires aren’t humans; they are beasts in the form of beautiful looking humans. Their culture and practices are very different, like many cultures around the world are different. Just because it isn’t common practice in your own culture, doesn’t make it wrong in another. And lest we forget that Yuuki is herself the offspring of an incest relationship.

Also if we look back in history, many human families are inter-breed too. The royal family of England is a prime example, even today of this. So are many aristocratic families, as they wanted to keep their blood lines pure, just like the aristocratic vampires. We can frown upon it now, but it was common practice in human culture less than 150 years ago, and let’s not forget, the vampires traditions are old fashioned stemming from this sort of age when it was common practice. Just something I think we should think about.

9) Flaws .
Kaname – His major flaw is secrets. They can put a strain on the relationship and leave Yuuki in the dark, which isn’t the best of things. It sort of leaves her in the lurch.
Yuuki – She needs to mature more as at the moment she depends too much on Kaname and also Zero. This dependence puts her at a disadvantage, as she can really not be Kaname’s equal if she can’t stand on her own two feet with him.

10) Development.
In the story I’ve seen Yume developed from a school girl crush, to them both wishing to be by the others side for the rest of eternity.

I think at the start Yuuki’s feelings stemmed from Kaname being her saviour. Most girls dream of a handsome prince saving them from mortal peril when young, so it’s understandable she developed a crush early on. At the start Yuuki seemed overawed by Kaname, yet now Yuuki is talking to him a lot more freely and even standing up against him. Two cases of this was when Kaname said Zero was a suspect when that day class student’s blood was taken, and also when Ruka left the Kuran mansion after Yuuki should Aidou’s dad out. She’s been more assertive with him then she has previously, which show’s she has grown in the relationship and is become more his equal. She still needs more development and maturity yet to fully stand by his side, but I do believe she will get there in the end.

Also Kaname has developed to in the relationship. At the start he did treat Yuuki like a child and a pampered princess really, he sort of tried to make her oblivious to the cruelties in the world, now he’s treating her more like an adult, he is not hiding her away from the cruelties as much anymore. He’s also being less secretive in certain respects so he has learned to open up to her, this to me is a good development and one that is still continuing.

Conclusion
There are flaws in Yume just like any other relationship. For them to be end game several things need to be resolved.
1) Yuuki needs to resolve her relationship with Zero.
2) Kaname needs to come clean about his plan and anything else he may be hiding, which could majorly affect their relationship.
3) Yuuki needs to have some more confidence in herself and be more assertive if she wishes to be his equal. She’s made some steps already, but she needs some more growth yet.

The reason I believe Yume is endgame is due to a number of reasons, mostly ones I have stated above, things such as their love declarations, acceptance, how they have gone through changes but their feelings have remained, if not perhaps got stronger, their developments and their common goals all lead me to seeing the advantages of this relationship and on the whole its strength to overcome obstacles.

Sorry if it was a little all over the place, was trying to get everything in that I could think of. If I missed anything out I’ll add it later.

Bloodredhead wrote:Okay so I’m going to go over several points, factors and arguments to do with yume, that i have seen in this thread and others like it. I ask you to just be open-minded when reading this, as I know some of you might not agree with what I say, but it’s another perspective which is essential to the story. Here's why i belie Yuuki should be with Kaname.

1) Love declarations.
Both sides in Yume have openly declared their love for the other, and those around them knew they held the other in a very special place. Zero and Yori knew how Yuuki felt about Kaname, and Takuma, Kain and several of the other vampires, picked up how their leader paid special attention to Yuuki, and protected her. Remember Kain asking Kaname why he paid special attention to Yuuki? http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-29/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-30/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html
People noticed how they both treated the other above, and differently to everyone else.

2) Protecting.
Kaname has protected Yuuki from day one. He protected her from Rido when he attacked the Kuran mansion, he protected her from the vampire in the snow http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-2/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her when she went to meet and greet him in town by scaring the vampire away http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-27/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her by having her stay with Cross as his adopted daughter, he’s always been protecting her. Also Yuuki has protected him too. After Rido was defeated yagari pointed a gun at Kaname, who was the one to stand in front of Kaname? Yuuki http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-27/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html . He might not have needed the protection, but the act itself showed she wished to protect him.

Also everyone ‘has a go’ at Kaname for him keeping Yuuki in the Kuran mansion for a year when he had very good reasons for keeping her in, mainly her own protection. Firstly, for the first 6 months Yuuki was trying to get to grips with being a pureblood vampire, and was having difficulties with her human side http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-28/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html . If Kaname had let her out then there would probably have been a high risk of her getting hurt or hurting someone else. To me both of these outcomes would not have been good. Secondly, the world outside wasn’t safe for Yuuki, this was proven when she first left the house and was wounded when attacked by another pureblood (Touma). She is basically a baby at the moment. She had only just accepted her vampire side, and started taking blood with her own fangs. So it was logical and natural for Kaname to keep her at the Kuran mansion safe until she could fend for herself, and until there was stability in the vampire community which he was working towards.

3) Changes.
Yuuki has loved Kaname at every turn of her own accord. When she was a child she wanted to be with him like her parents http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-25/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html, when she was human (after forgetting who he was) she still wanted to be with him and fell in love, when she turned back into a pureblood she still loved him http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-24/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html , and when he revealed who he really was Yuuki declared he was the only Kaname for her, http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-15/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html so yeah she still loved him. Her love has stayed for him through all her changes and their relationship changes; to me that show’s she truly loves him.

4) Acceptance.
Yuuki has accepted Kaname when he told her of his, so called ‘sins’ and about his tainted hands. Yuuki then says she loves his hands, and if he is tainted then she wants to be tainted too, and fall to the farthest depths with him. Yuuki’s words not mine.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-32/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
She also accepted him when she found out that he wasn’t her real brother. She didn’t reject him; she wishes to start again, which shows she is serious about their relationship. She wishes to start at a point where she knows who he really is, and build a relationship from her acceptance of who he is and on an equal level. Now if you didn’t love a guy and didn’t want to be with them, why bother restarting? With Kaname leaving it has put brakes on their restart, but it’s also given Yuuki the opportunity to sort her feelings for Zero and bring some form of closure on that. I see this as being beneficial to the Yume relationship, as Yuuki can then go after Kaname with a whole and open heart.

5) Trust and belief.
From what I’ve seen of Yuuki recently she still believes in Kaname and I think this is key. She has neither stated if she agrees or disagrees with his action recently, but she can’t really voice an opinion when she doesn’t know his plan. However her being angry and upset with Kaname allowing his name to be ‘dragged through the mud’ to me shows she believes he has the right intentions. She also doesn’t like seeing him being seen as a bad person.

Kaname has also shown his trust in Yuuki by revealing his past to her. He put faith in her by letting her see his memories and declaring his ‘sins’ to Yuuki, even if it meant she wouldn’t touch him again, he wanted her to know. He basically left himself open and sort of vulnerable, which for him is quiet a big show of faith. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-20/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
It shows how serious he is about their relationship, as his character entails a very secretive nature. He doesn’t give much away due to his upbringing, his station and the world around him. Yet he has opened up to Yuuki a lot more than anyone else. Expecting him to come clean about everything at once would to me be too much, though he is opening up more and more with Yuuki. It shows growth in his trust and growth in how he views his relationship. One step at a time is good for building a solid, trustful and strong relationship.

I will admit I think Kaname needs to open up even more and keep a lot less secrets, but I believe he will do in time.

6) About HW.
Now I do believe Kaname cared for her, and she is someone who was an important existence to him and probably still is in some respects. I don’t however what to address their relationship (as it’s a separate relationship), but I’d like to put my view of why I believe regardless of Kaname’s feeling for HW, he loves Yuuki more. One thing that makes me believe this is when Kaname asked Yuuki to give him a new name http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-20/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html . Now if he cared more about HW, then why would he let something she had given him be changed? Things given to you by the one you truly love, you don’t just in effect give away, you strive to keep and protect them. To me the answer is simple, although he valued her; he values Yuuki more hence why, he was going to let Yuuki change his name. Her being comfortable and reassured means more to him then something given to him by HW. Just my perspective on the matter.

Also in response to claims that Yuuki is just a replacement, I’ll quote Kaname here. “No person can be a substitute for another.” So I think he has answered that question himself.

7) Goals.
Both have similar goals. They wish for co-existence and to protect not just their loved ones but innocent people as well. Yuuki has shown this when Rido attacked instead of going to a safe place she stayed to protect the academy and its students (chapter 41). Kaname has shown this when he told ruka in chapter 74 to make sure the humans were kept away for their own protection.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/74/29

Both of them wish for vampires and humans to live peacefully side by side. Kaname helped found cross academy with Kaien cross, and Yuuki has always shown her support for vampires and humans to get along. So they are both working towards a common goal. To me it brings them closer together, and in a way they are in-sync with each other, in their beliefs and goals.

Also one of Kaname’s goals has been to make it safe for Yuuki to be out in the world, and safe from harm. I know a lot of people go on about the image of Yuuki in chains, but they always fail to mention the other image that went with that one. (The one of Yuuki free with flowers.) http://www.mangareader.net/104-51058-5/vampire-knight/chapter-60.html Even though part of Kaname wishes to lock her up; he is working towards the other alternative where Yuuki is free. He is striving for this not the one of her being chained. That’s what counts. That is one of his goals.

8 ) Family relationship.
I know a lot of people don’t like the idea of the incest part of the yume relationship. So I wanted to point some things out that I think people should think about when going ‘eww’ at the idea.

In vampire culture it is a common practice for families to inter marry. Vampires aren’t humans; they are beasts in the form of beautiful looking humans. Their culture and practices are very different, like many cultures around the world are different. Just because it isn’t common practice in your own culture, doesn’t make it wrong in another. And lest we forget that Yuuki is herself the offspring of an incest relationship.

Also if we look back in history, many human families are inter-breed too. The royal family of England is a prime example, even today of this. So are many aristocratic families, as they wanted to keep their blood lines pure, just like the aristocratic vampires. We can frown upon it now, but it was common practice in human culture less than 150 years ago, and let’s not forget, the vampires traditions are old fashioned stemming from this sort of age when it was common practice. Just something I think we should think about.

9) Flaws .
Kaname – His major flaw is secrets. They can put a strain on the relationship and leave Yuuki in the dark, which isn’t the best of things. It sort of leaves her in the lurch.
Yuuki – She needs to mature more as at the moment she depends too much on Kaname and also Zero. This dependence puts her at a disadvantage, as she can really not be Kaname’s equal if she can’t stand on her own two feet with him.

10) Development.
In the story I’ve seen Yume developed from a school girl crush, to them both wishing to be by the others side for the rest of eternity.

I think at the start Yuuki’s feelings stemmed from Kaname being her saviour. Most girls dream of a handsome prince saving them from mortal peril when young, so it’s understandable she developed a crush early on. At the start Yuuki seemed overawed by Kaname, yet now Yuuki is talking to him a lot more freely and even standing up against him. Two cases of this was when Kaname said Zero was a suspect when that day class student’s blood was taken, and also when Ruka left the Kuran mansion after Yuuki should Aidou’s dad out. She’s been more assertive with him then she has previously, which show’s she has grown in the relationship and is become more his equal. She still needs more development and maturity yet to fully stand by his side, but I do believe she will get there in the end.

Also Kaname has developed to in the relationship. At the start he did treat Yuuki like a child and a pampered princess really, he sort of tried to make her oblivious to the cruelties in the world, now he’s treating her more like an adult, he is not hiding her away from the cruelties as much anymore. He’s also being less secretive in certain respects so he has learned to open up to her, this to me is a good development and one that is still continuing.

Conclusion
There are flaws in Yume just like any other relationship. For them to be end game several things need to be resolved.
1) Yuuki needs to resolve her relationship with Zero.
2) Kaname needs to come clean about his plan and anything else he may be hiding, which could majorly affect their relationship.
3) Yuuki needs to have some more confidence in herself and be more assertive if she wishes to be his equal. She’s made some steps already, but she needs some more growth yet.

The reason I believe Yume is endgame is due to a number of reasons, mostly ones I have stated above, things such as their love declarations, acceptance, how they have gone through changes but their feelings have remained, if not perhaps got stronger, their developments and their common goals all lead me to seeing the advantages of this relationship and on the whole its strength to overcome obstacles.

Sorry if it was a little all over the place, was trying to get everything in that I could think of. If I missed anything out I’ll add it later.

That's one amazing post there...perfect description...

juliet wrote: That's one amazing post there...perfect description...

aww! thanks juliet!!!

Bloodredhead wrote:Okay so I’m going to go over several points, factors and arguments to do with yume, that i have seen in this thread and others like it. I ask you to just be open-minded when reading this, as I know some of you might not agree with what I say, but it’s another perspective which is essential to the story. Here's why i belie Yuuki should be with Kaname.

1) Love declarations.
Both sides in Yume have openly declared their love for the other, and those around them knew they held the other in a very special place. Zero and Yori knew how Yuuki felt about Kaname, and Takuma, Kain and several of the other vampires, picked up how their leader paid special attention to Yuuki, and protected her. Remember Kain asking Kaname why he paid special attention to Yuuki? http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-29/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-30/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html
People noticed how they both treated the other above, and differently to everyone else.

2) Protecting.
Kaname has protected Yuuki from day one. He protected her from Rido when he attacked the Kuran mansion, he protected her from the vampire in the snow http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-2/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her when she went to meet and greet him in town by scaring the vampire away http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-27/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her by having her stay with Cross as his adopted daughter, he’s always been protecting her. Also Yuuki has protected him too. After Rido was defeated yagari pointed a gun at Kaname, who was the one to stand in front of Kaname? Yuuki http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-27/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html . He might not have needed the protection, but the act itself showed she wished to protect him.

Also everyone ‘has a go’ at Kaname for him keeping Yuuki in the Kuran mansion for a year when he had very good reasons for keeping her in, mainly her own protection. Firstly, for the first 6 months Yuuki was trying to get to grips with being a pureblood vampire, and was having difficulties with her human side http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-28/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html . If Kaname had let her out then there would probably have been a high risk of her getting hurt or hurting someone else. To me both of these outcomes would not have been good. Secondly, the world outside wasn’t safe for Yuuki, this was proven when she first left the house and was wounded when attacked by another pureblood (Touma). She is basically a baby at the moment. She had only just accepted her vampire side, and started taking blood with her own fangs. So it was logical and natural for Kaname to keep her at the Kuran mansion safe until she could fend for herself, and until there was stability in the vampire community which he was working towards.

3) Changes.
Yuuki has loved Kaname at every turn of her own accord. When she was a child she wanted to be with him like her parents http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-25/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html, when she was human (after forgetting who he was) she still wanted to be with him and fell in love, when she turned back into a pureblood she still loved him http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-24/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html , and when he revealed who he really was Yuuki declared he was the only Kaname for her, http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-15/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html so yeah she still loved him. Her love has stayed for him through all her changes and their relationship changes; to me that show’s she truly loves him.

4) Acceptance.
Yuuki has accepted Kaname when he told her of his, so called ‘sins’ and about his tainted hands. Yuuki then says she loves his hands, and if he is tainted then she wants to be tainted too, and fall to the farthest depths with him. Yuuki’s words not mine.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-32/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
She also accepted him when she found out that he wasn’t her real brother. She didn’t reject him; she wishes to start again, which shows she is serious about their relationship. She wishes to start at a point where she knows who he really is, and build a relationship from her acceptance of who he is and on an equal level. Now if you didn’t love a guy and didn’t want to be with them, why bother restarting? With Kaname leaving it has put brakes on their restart, but it’s also given Yuuki the opportunity to sort her feelings for Zero and bring some form of closure on that. I see this as being beneficial to the Yume relationship, as Yuuki can then go after Kaname with a whole and open heart.

5) Trust and belief.
From what I’ve seen of Yuuki recently she still believes in Kaname and I think this is key. She has neither stated if she agrees or disagrees with his action recently, but she can’t really voice an opinion when she doesn’t know his plan. However her being angry and upset with Kaname allowing his name to be ‘dragged through the mud’ to me shows she believes he has the right intentions. She also doesn’t like seeing him being seen as a bad person.

Kaname has also shown his trust in Yuuki by revealing his past to her. He put faith in her by letting her see his memories and declaring his ‘sins’ to Yuuki, even if it meant she wouldn’t touch him again, he wanted her to know. He basically left himself open and sort of vulnerable, which for him is quiet a big show of faith. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-20/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
It shows how serious he is about their relationship, as his character entails a very secretive nature. He doesn’t give much away due to his upbringing, his station and the world around him. Yet he has opened up to Yuuki a lot more than anyone else. Expecting him to come clean about everything at once would to me be too much, though he is opening up more and more with Yuuki. It shows growth in his trust and growth in how he views his relationship. One step at a time is good for building a solid, trustful and strong relationship.

I will admit I think Kaname needs to open up even more and keep a lot less secrets, but I believe he will do in time.

6) About HW.
Now I do believe Kaname cared for her, and she is someone who was an important existence to him and probably still is in some respects. I don’t however what to address their relationship (as it’s a separate relationship), but I’d like to put my view of why I believe regardless of Kaname’s feeling for HW, he loves Yuuki more. One thing that makes me believe this is when Kaname asked Yuuki to give him a new name http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-20/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html . Now if he cared more about HW, then why would he let something she had given him be changed? Things given to you by the one you truly love, you don’t just in effect give away, you strive to keep and protect them. To me the answer is simple, although he valued her; he values Yuuki more hence why, he was going to let Yuuki change his name. Her being comfortable and reassured means more to him then something given to him by HW. Just my perspective on the matter.

Also in response to claims that Yuuki is just a replacement, I’ll quote Kaname here. “No person can be a substitute for another.” So I think he has answered that question himself.

7) Goals.
Both have similar goals. They wish for co-existence and to protect not just their loved ones but innocent people as well. Yuuki has shown this when Rido attacked instead of going to a safe place she stayed to protect the academy and its students (chapter 41). Kaname has shown this when he told ruka in chapter 74 to make sure the humans were kept away for their own protection.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/74/29

Both of them wish for vampires and humans to live peacefully side by side. Kaname helped found cross academy with Kaien cross, and Yuuki has always shown her support for vampires and humans to get along. So they are both working towards a common goal. To me it brings them closer together, and in a way they are in-sync with each other, in their beliefs and goals.

Also one of Kaname’s goals has been to make it safe for Yuuki to be out in the world, and safe from harm. I know a lot of people go on about the image of Yuuki in chains, but they always fail to mention the other image that went with that one. (The one of Yuuki free with flowers.) http://www.mangareader.net/104-51058-5/vampire-knight/chapter-60.html Even though part of Kaname wishes to lock her up; he is working towards the other alternative where Yuuki is free. He is striving for this not the one of her being chained. That’s what counts. That is one of his goals.

8 ) Family relationship.
I know a lot of people don’t like the idea of the incest part of the yume relationship. So I wanted to point some things out that I think people should think about when going ‘eww’ at the idea.

In vampire culture it is a common practice for families to inter marry. Vampires aren’t humans; they are beasts in the form of beautiful looking humans. Their culture and practices are very different, like many cultures around the world are different. Just because it isn’t common practice in your own culture, doesn’t make it wrong in another. And lest we forget that Yuuki is herself the offspring of an incest relationship.

Also if we look back in history, many human families are inter-breed too. The royal family of England is a prime example, even today of this. So are many aristocratic families, as they wanted to keep their blood lines pure, just like the aristocratic vampires. We can frown upon it now, but it was common practice in human culture less than 150 years ago, and let’s not forget, the vampires traditions are old fashioned stemming from this sort of age when it was common practice. Just something I think we should think about.

9) Flaws .
Kaname – His major flaw is secrets. They can put a strain on the relationship and leave Yuuki in the dark, which isn’t the best of things. It sort of leaves her in the lurch.
Yuuki – She needs to mature more as at the moment she depends too much on Kaname and also Zero. This dependence puts her at a disadvantage, as she can really not be Kaname’s equal if she can’t stand on her own two feet with him.

10) Development.
In the story I’ve seen Yume developed from a school girl crush, to them both wishing to be by the others side for the rest of eternity.

I think at the start Yuuki’s feelings stemmed from Kaname being her saviour. Most girls dream of a handsome prince saving them from mortal peril when young, so it’s understandable she developed a crush early on. At the start Yuuki seemed overawed by Kaname, yet now Yuuki is talking to him a lot more freely and even standing up against him. Two cases of this was when Kaname said Zero was a suspect when that day class student’s blood was taken, and also when Ruka left the Kuran mansion after Yuuki should Aidou’s dad out. She’s been more assertive with him then she has previously, which show’s she has grown in the relationship and is become more his equal. She still needs more development and maturity yet to fully stand by his side, but I do believe she will get there in the end.

Also Kaname has developed to in the relationship. At the start he did treat Yuuki like a child and a pampered princess really, he sort of tried to make her oblivious to the cruelties in the world, now he’s treating her more like an adult, he is not hiding her away from the cruelties as much anymore. He’s also being less secretive in certain respects so he has learned to open up to her, this to me is a good development and one that is still continuing.

Conclusion
There are flaws in Yume just like any other relationship. For them to be end game several things need to be resolved.
1) Yuuki needs to resolve her relationship with Zero.
2) Kaname needs to come clean about his plan and anything else he may be hiding, which could majorly affect their relationship.
3) Yuuki needs to have some more confidence in herself and be more assertive if she wishes to be his equal. She’s made some steps already, but she needs some more growth yet.

The reason I believe Yume is endgame is due to a number of reasons, mostly ones I have stated above, things such as their love declarations, acceptance, how they have gone through changes but their feelings have remained, if not perhaps got stronger, their developments and their common goals all lead me to seeing the advantages of this relationship and on the whole its strength to overcome obstacles.

Sorry if it was a little all over the place, was trying to get everything in that I could think of. If I missed anything out I’ll add it later.

Thank you Blood for the terrific post!!!!

Bloodredhead wrote:Okay so I’m going to go over several points, factors and arguments to do with yume, that i have seen in this thread and others like it. I ask you to just be open-minded when reading this, as I know some of you might not agree with what I say, but it’s another perspective which is essential to the story. Here's why i belie Yuuki should be with Kaname.

1) Love declarations.
Both sides in Yume have openly declared their love for the other, and those around them knew they held the other in a very special place. Zero and Yori knew how Yuuki felt about Kaname, and Takuma, Kain and several of the other vampires, picked up how their leader paid special attention to Yuuki, and protected her. Remember Kain asking Kaname why he paid special attention to Yuuki? http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-29/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-2066-30/vampire-knight/chapter-5.html
People noticed how they both treated the other above, and differently to everyone else.

2) Protecting.
Kaname has protected Yuuki from day one. He protected her from Rido when he attacked the Kuran mansion, he protected her from the vampire in the snow http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-2/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her when she went to meet and greet him in town by scaring the vampire away http://www.mangareader.net/104-2104-27/vampire-knight/chapter-11.html , he protected her by having her stay with Cross as his adopted daughter, he’s always been protecting her. Also Yuuki has protected him too. After Rido was defeated yagari pointed a gun at Kaname, who was the one to stand in front of Kaname? Yuuki http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-27/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html . He might not have needed the protection, but the act itself showed she wished to protect him.

Also everyone ‘has a go’ at Kaname for him keeping Yuuki in the Kuran mansion for a year when he had very good reasons for keeping her in, mainly her own protection. Firstly, for the first 6 months Yuuki was trying to get to grips with being a pureblood vampire, and was having difficulties with her human side http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-28/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html . If Kaname had let her out then there would probably have been a high risk of her getting hurt or hurting someone else. To me both of these outcomes would not have been good. Secondly, the world outside wasn’t safe for Yuuki, this was proven when she first left the house and was wounded when attacked by another pureblood (Touma). She is basically a baby at the moment. She had only just accepted her vampire side, and started taking blood with her own fangs. So it was logical and natural for Kaname to keep her at the Kuran mansion safe until she could fend for herself, and until there was stability in the vampire community which he was working towards.

3) Changes.
Yuuki has loved Kaname at every turn of her own accord. When she was a child she wanted to be with him like her parents http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-25/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html, when she was human (after forgetting who he was) she still wanted to be with him and fell in love, when she turned back into a pureblood she still loved him http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-24/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html , and when he revealed who he really was Yuuki declared he was the only Kaname for her, http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-15/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html so yeah she still loved him. Her love has stayed for him through all her changes and their relationship changes; to me that show’s she truly loves him.

4) Acceptance.
Yuuki has accepted Kaname when he told her of his, so called ‘sins’ and about his tainted hands. Yuuki then says she loves his hands, and if he is tainted then she wants to be tainted too, and fall to the farthest depths with him. Yuuki’s words not mine.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-32/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
She also accepted him when she found out that he wasn’t her real brother. She didn’t reject him; she wishes to start again, which shows she is serious about their relationship. She wishes to start at a point where she knows who he really is, and build a relationship from her acceptance of who he is and on an equal level. Now if you didn’t love a guy and didn’t want to be with them, why bother restarting? With Kaname leaving it has put brakes on their restart, but it’s also given Yuuki the opportunity to sort her feelings for Zero and bring some form of closure on that. I see this as being beneficial to the Yume relationship, as Yuuki can then go after Kaname with a whole and open heart.

5) Trust and belief.
From what I’ve seen of Yuuki recently she still believes in Kaname and I think this is key. She has neither stated if she agrees or disagrees with his action recently, but she can’t really voice an opinion when she doesn’t know his plan. However her being angry and upset with Kaname allowing his name to be ‘dragged through the mud’ to me shows she believes he has the right intentions. She also doesn’t like seeing him being seen as a bad person.

Kaname has also shown his trust in Yuuki by revealing his past to her. He put faith in her by letting her see his memories and declaring his ‘sins’ to Yuuki, even if it meant she wouldn’t touch him again, he wanted her to know. He basically left himself open and sort of vulnerable, which for him is quiet a big show of faith. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-20/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
It shows how serious he is about their relationship, as his character entails a very secretive nature. He doesn’t give much away due to his upbringing, his station and the world around him. Yet he has opened up to Yuuki a lot more than anyone else. Expecting him to come clean about everything at once would to me be too much, though he is opening up more and more with Yuuki. It shows growth in his trust and growth in how he views his relationship. One step at a time is good for building a solid, trustful and strong relationship.

I will admit I think Kaname needs to open up even more and keep a lot less secrets, but I believe he will do in time.

6) About HW.
Now I do believe Kaname cared for her, and she is someone who was an important existence to him and probably still is in some respects. I don’t however what to address their relationship (as it’s a separate relationship), but I’d like to put my view of why I believe regardless of Kaname’s feeling for HW, he loves Yuuki more. One thing that makes me believe this is when Kaname asked Yuuki to give him a new name http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-20/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html . Now if he cared more about HW, then why would he let something she had given him be changed? Things given to you by the one you truly love, you don’t just in effect give away, you strive to keep and protect them. To me the answer is simple, although he valued her; he values Yuuki more hence why, he was going to let Yuuki change his name. Her being comfortable and reassured means more to him then something given to him by HW. Just my perspective on the matter.

Also in response to claims that Yuuki is just a replacement, I’ll quote Kaname here. “No person can be a substitute for another.” So I think he has answered that question himself.

7) Goals.
Both have similar goals. They wish for co-existence and to protect not just their loved ones but innocent people as well. Yuuki has shown this when Rido attacked instead of going to a safe place she stayed to protect the academy and its students (chapter 41). Kaname has shown this when he told ruka in chapter 74 to make sure the humans were kept away for their own protection.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/74/29

Both of them wish for vampires and humans to live peacefully side by side. Kaname helped found cross academy with Kaien cross, and Yuuki has always shown her support for vampires and humans to get along. So they are both working towards a common goal. To me it brings them closer together, and in a way they are in-sync with each other, in their beliefs and goals.

Also one of Kaname’s goals has been to make it safe for Yuuki to be out in the world, and safe from harm. I know a lot of people go on about the image of Yuuki in chains, but they always fail to mention the other image that went with that one. (The one of Yuuki free with flowers.) http://www.mangareader.net/104-51058-5/vampire-knight/chapter-60.html Even though part of Kaname wishes to lock her up; he is working towards the other alternative where Yuuki is free. He is striving for this not the one of her being chained. That’s what counts. That is one of his goals.

8 ) Family relationship.
I know a lot of people don’t like the idea of the incest part of the yume relationship. So I wanted to point some things out that I think people should think about when going ‘eww’ at the idea.

In vampire culture it is a common practice for families to inter marry. Vampires aren’t humans; they are beasts in the form of beautiful looking humans. Their culture and practices are very different, like many cultures around the world are different. Just because it isn’t common practice in your own culture, doesn’t make it wrong in another. And lest we forget that Yuuki is herself the offspring of an incest relationship.

Also if we look back in history, many human families are inter-breed too. The royal family of England is a prime example, even today of this. So are many aristocratic families, as they wanted to keep their blood lines pure, just like the aristocratic vampires. We can frown upon it now, but it was common practice in human culture less than 150 years ago, and let’s not forget, the vampires traditions are old fashioned stemming from this sort of age when it was common practice. Just something I think we should think about.

9) Flaws .
Kaname – His major flaw is secrets. They can put a strain on the relationship and leave Yuuki in the dark, which isn’t the best of things. It sort of leaves her in the lurch.
Yuuki – She needs to mature more as at the moment she depends too much on Kaname and also Zero. This dependence puts her at a disadvantage, as she can really not be Kaname’s equal if she can’t stand on her own two feet with him.

10) Development.
In the story I’ve seen Yume developed from a school girl crush, to them both wishing to be by the others side for the rest of eternity.

I think at the start Yuuki’s feelings stemmed from Kaname being her saviour. Most girls dream of a handsome prince saving them from mortal peril when young, so it’s understandable she developed a crush early on. At the start Yuuki seemed overawed by Kaname, yet now Yuuki is talking to him a lot more freely and even standing up against him. Two cases of this was when Kaname said Zero was a suspect when that day class student’s blood was taken, and also when Ruka left the Kuran mansion after Yuuki should Aidou’s dad out. She’s been more assertive with him then she has previously, which show’s she has grown in the relationship and is become more his equal. She still needs more development and maturity yet to fully stand by his side, but I do believe she will get there in the end.

Also Kaname has developed to in the relationship. At the start he did treat Yuuki like a child and a pampered princess really, he sort of tried to make her oblivious to the cruelties in the world, now he’s treating her more like an adult, he is not hiding her away from the cruelties as much anymore. He’s also being less secretive in certain respects so he has learned to open up to her, this to me is a good development and one that is still continuing.

Conclusion
There are flaws in Yume just like any other relationship. For them to be end game several things need to be resolved.
1) Yuuki needs to resolve her relationship with Zero.
2) Kaname needs to come clean about his plan and anything else he may be hiding, which could majorly affect their relationship.
3) Yuuki needs to have some more confidence in herself and be more assertive if she wishes to be his equal. She’s made some steps already, but she needs some more growth yet.

The reason I believe Yume is endgame is due to a number of reasons, mostly ones I have stated above, things such as their love declarations, acceptance, how they have gone through changes but their feelings have remained, if not perhaps got stronger, their developments and their common goals all lead me to seeing the advantages of this relationship and on the whole its strength to overcome obstacles.

Sorry if it was a little all over the place, was trying to get everything in that I could think of. If I missed anything out I’ll add it later.

What you have described about the 10 things along are 100% true. That's by far the BEST I've ever read, Red. Two thumbs up for you all the way!!!!!

Bloodredhead , about your Yume post from 9 / 6 / 11 .

What can I say ? Wonderful post !

I loved it !

Very clear . Strong facts . Top arguments .

Very difficult to argue against your points .

You deserve a ten .

I like to see someone trying to prove you wrong here !

Bloodredhead. Your long Yume post, I just have to say this as well:

Wow! That is the most amazing post I have ever seen!

You really nailed it. I can't see any way that someone can argue with that!

It's such a wonderful post and extremely logical. LOVE IT!

@Nina and Kuran prince: Thanks guys!

mariangie wrote:Bloodredhead , about your Yume post from 9 / 6 / 11 .

What can I say ? Wonderful post !

I loved it !

Very clear . Strong facts . Top arguments .

Very difficult to argue against your points .

You deserve a ten .

I like to see someone trying to prove you wrong here !

Thanks maria!!!

Divine Rose wrote:Bloodredhead. Your long Yume post, I just have to say this as well:

Wow! That is the most amazing post I have ever seen!

You really nailed it. I can't see any way that someone can argue with that!

It's such a wonderful post and extremely logical. LOVE IT!

Thanks! I'm glad you liked it. I think i got everything covered in it.

@Bloodredhead: You're welcome. And I do believe you got everything covered.

hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Lol! Welcome to the forum.

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

enjoy your time here

Yuki can't decide so she should take both.
It's good for co-existence and they can make a threesome.

But the best for Yuki is definitively Kaname.
With him, she can spend eternity.

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Have a great time!

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Welcome to the forum!

WELCOME

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Im a zeki fan too! but welcome and have fun!!

Youweremysafeplace* wrote:

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Im a zeki fan too! but welcome and have fun!!

Me too xD xD

Welcome aboard

by the way I love your avatar youweremysafeplace

shizza24 wrote:

Youweremysafeplace* wrote:

tsundereluver wrote: hey guys i am zeki .....thats all mwah

Im a zeki fan too! but welcome and have fun!!

Me too xD xD

Welcome aboard

by the way I love your avatar youweremysafeplace

Wellcome tsundereluver and i agree with you Shizza24. Youweremysafeplace you have a really nice avatar

VampireCythia wrote:

shizza24 wrote:

Youweremysafeplace* wrote:

Im a zeki fan too! but welcome and have fun!!

Me too xD xD

Welcome aboard

by the way I love your avatar youweremysafeplace

Wellcome tsundereluver and i agree with you Shizza24. Youweremysafeplace you have a really nice avatar

ahaha thank you so much! i wish i saw this sooner! so i would have like double posted i guess you can say , but its actually i drawing i made when i got bored. But thanks again it means alot

Youweremysafeplace* wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:

shizza24 wrote:


Me too xD xD

Welcome aboard

by the way I love your avatar youweremysafeplace

Wellcome tsundereluver and i agree with you Shizza24. Youweremysafeplace you have a really nice avatar

ahaha thank you so much! i wish i saw this sooner! so i would have like double posted i guess you can say , but its actually i drawing i made when i got bored. But thanks again it means alot

WOW!! You Drew that?!? It's soooo awesome!!! Please post it on the FanArt thread I made and if you have made other drawings can we see them? Pretty please?

Youweremysafeplace* wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:

shizza24 wrote:


Me too xD xD

Welcome aboard

by the way I love your avatar youweremysafeplace

Wellcome tsundereluver and i agree with you Shizza24. Youweremysafeplace you have a really nice avatar

ahaha thank you so much! i wish i saw this sooner! so i would have like double posted i guess you can say , but its actually i drawing i made when i got bored. But thanks again it means alot

Wow I´m so impressed it looks so perfect , both of them are so calm and they look so realxed, they really like the situation, they don´t feel uncomfortable, such a cute Zeki-picture