Does Zero feel Rejected?

First topic message reminder :

I wonder if he's harboring any resentments towards Yuki because she chose Kaname...

sweetsolace wrote:

caela wrote:

nina wrote:@caela … you know, you and a few others were fangirling over the “assumption” that Kaname manipulating the whole situation in order to pass Yuuki to Zero while you’re trying to degrade him saying that he treats Yuuki like a piece into his game …

I suppose that in the first option he is a "good manipulator" cuz materializing your “dreams” for Zeki and you don’t mind if something like that makes Yuuki an object, whereas when Yuuki by her OWN FREE WILL DECIDES to stand by his side, Kaname is a "bad manipulator"…

That’s sounds very bitter to me if not something else … but I’ll let the fans to draw their own conclusions…

PS. And here one case where Yuuki FROWNING and BLUSHING because Aido tries to stop her
http://www.mangareader.net/104-37352-24/vampire-knight/chapter-55.html

umm...I don't see the fangirling. Yuuki has made it clear that even a betrayal would not stop her love for Kaname. That does not mean that she cannot have moments of doubt. It would take alot more than this for her to change her mind and choose Zero.

Also, treating people like chess pieces is not a way to treat a fiancee (If this is what Kaname is doing). Its not bitterness, its common courtesy. I don't walk around thinking about how to use people. Kaname knows how much Yuuki loves him. All he would have to do is ask her to do it. Racism is bad, and so is this.

The example you gave of Yuuki frowning and blushing was also a high stress/high emotion moment of helplessness for Yuuki (Ouri's death). I welcome any theory you have that can link Zero to the same emotional level as Ouri's death or Yuuki's situation in chapter 32.

what makes you think Yuki has moments of doubt? She is completely giving herself to Kaname's cause, despite being blind to his motives and objectives.
"I will do what is expected of me as a chess piece. Step by step one at a time, until I can finally reach him" -chapter 76
"I may not know what Kaname is doing, but Im going to stop him no matter what" -chapter 75

she has no reason to doubt him when she puts in her hands to get him, she set a determination for herself to help Kaname. That's actually TRUST in his actions, she knows he's doing bad things but deep inside, she knows Kaname has true plans and she's willing to become a chess piece for it despite not knowing what it is. She is willing to go this far just to be with him. Staking so much for something that is not even sure, and will potentially harm her shows much where her love and her trust in him lies.

Kaname NEVER said he's going to turn Yuki into a chess piece, she got the idea when she heard his message to her. Like said before she is willing to become one just to see him, its not manipulation like Zero is doing. She wasnt told to be one, she went with her own will. And I doubt this is Kaname's intention even, as he wants to protect her, and everything he had done so far was for her safety. To jeopardize that by potentially putting her life on the line as a chess piece defies his entire purpose/mission.

Its pretty obvious that Yuki was upset and it showed when Zero grabbed her arm. obviously none of what was happening was making her happy, worst the people around her were actually DISCOURAGING HER from continuing to love Kaname and SHE KNOWS IT.
Yuki (to zero): I know you were thinking that I would probably get fed up hearing the same thing from him, right?
she had in her mind that Zero was trying to wrench her attention or love away from Kaname by degrading Kaname's image further. And who actually said that Zero will be the messenger, he could have taken the matter to his hands all by himself to earn him extra points in Yuki's heart. It doesn't take much equation to figure it out--pretty much Zero had been doing "discreet" advances towards Yuki by making excuses when Kaname was gone , so its not surprising that he would be degrading his image further in Yuki's eyes. And to accentuate the point that this was part of his intention, it came as a shock to him to hear Yuki saying she still believed in Kaname thus the arm grab.
Kaname has his flaws and his own set of illness (Rido) but at least he doesnt try to control her from doing what she wants like grabbing her arm .

I would consider this a valid possibility for the situation except that Zero had two opportunities to pass the message. In the first one is shown to us in flashback form in Yuuki's memory (chapter 67)

Zero: the president wants to see you now.



The second opportunity was later on and it was clear Yuuki was in a hurry:
Zero to Yuuki: The president wanted to see you, why didn't you go?
Yuuki to Zero: I have my priority...



Zero probably sensed from Yuuki's priority that this was the last opprotunity to get the message to Yuuki, just in case it was something important, though it should have been an obvious lie to Zero because Zero was there at the party and knew it was Sara who killed Ouri (smelled blood on Sara's breath). Also, Kaname did not need a hunter to kill a pureblood. Actually, Kaname couldn't have been the murderer and this should have been obvious to everyone. Anyways...

Zero originally wanted Cross to deliver the message. He did not want to be the bearer of bad news.

Zero originally wanted Cross to deliver the message. He did not want to be the bearer of bad news.

which part showed that Kaien wanted Zero to give her the news? Zero just told her that the president wanted to see her, when she didn't, I see he was the one who chose to be the one to "pass the message" to her.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/20
his eyes were shaded and he looked like he can't wait to be the one to tell her the bad news. Moreover the fact Yuki had the perception that Zero was eager to see her fed up, (her response "You think I'd get sick hearing this kind of news from him") supports the idea that Zero is there to disturb her image of Kaname further. And really, like previously said, if that was the case it wouldnt be too surprising considering everyone seems to be throwing tomatoes to Kaname.

caela wrote:umm...I don't see the fangirling. Yuuki has made it clear that even a betrayal would not stop her love for Kaname. That does not mean that she cannot have moments of doubt. It would take alot more than this for her to change her mind and choose Zero.

Also, treating people like chess pieces is not a way to treat a fiancee (If this is what Kaname is doing). Its not bitterness, its common courtesy. I don't walk around thinking about how to use people. Kaname knows how much Yuuki loves him. All he would have to do is ask her to do it. Racism is bad, and so is this.

The example you gave of Yuuki frowning and blushing was also a high stress/high emotion moment of helplessness for Yuuki (Ouri's death). I welcome any theory you have that can link Zero to the same emotional level as Ouri's death or Yuuki's situation in chapter 32.

About Kaname using Yuuki as a chess piece, his message seemed more to me that he wanted Yuuki to distrust him, not become one of his chess pieces. He doesnt want Yuuki involved in his plans. Its Yuuki who made that decision herself, her, no-one else. She wants to be involved.Its purely her decision, Kaname can't manipulate her own free will. This is yuuki's choice, and i believe it shows how much she believe's in kaname (which i find very adorable).

caela wrote:Yes, I am working with Yuuki's assumption that she is to be a chess piece. We do not know Kaname's actual plan.

I totally agree that at all points both Zero and Yuuki were given free will. That is why I say "manipulated" instead of "forced." Here is what Kaname has said on the topic:

Kaname to Yuuki (chapter 49): I would hate it if the lies build up between us, so . . . [some other confession]...I made as much use as I possibly could of the closeness that existed between you and Kiryuu-kun... [other confessions]....My hands are far more tainted than you can imagine, Yuuki

This is Kaname admitting that the manipulation of Zero is wrong. Kaname is a flawed character. He is still a good guy, but he is flawed. This is not me fangirling Zero: This is me quoting Kaname.

Note: Zero is the racist. Kaname is not the racist.

Your evidence only supports arc 1 in terms of Kaname 'manipulating' Yuuki or Zero.

And of course Kaname is flawed, everybody in Vk. None of them are perfect or angels. They all have their flaws, bad traits, dark sides etc.

Bloodredhead wrote:

caela wrote:umm...I don't see the fangirling. Yuuki has made it clear that even a betrayal would not stop her love for Kaname. That does not mean that she cannot have moments of doubt. It would take alot more than this for her to change her mind and choose Zero.

Also, treating people like chess pieces is not a way to treat a fiancee (If this is what Kaname is doing). Its not bitterness, its common courtesy. I don't walk around thinking about how to use people. Kaname knows how much Yuuki loves him. All he would have to do is ask her to do it. Racism is bad, and so is this.

The example you gave of Yuuki frowning and blushing was also a high stress/high emotion moment of helplessness for Yuuki (Ouri's death). I welcome any theory you have that can link Zero to the same emotional level as Ouri's death or Yuuki's situation in chapter 32.

About Kaname using Yuuki as a chess piece, his message seemed more to me that he wanted Yuuki to distrust him, not become one of his chess pieces. He doesnt want Yuuki involved in his plans. Its Yuuki who made that decision herself, her, no-one else. She wants to be involved.Its purely her decision, Kaname can't manipulate her own free will. This is yuuki's choice, and i believe it shows how much she believe's in kaname (which i find very adorable).

caela wrote:Yes, I am working with Yuuki's assumption that she is to be a chess piece. We do not know Kaname's actual plan.

I totally agree that at all points both Zero and Yuuki were given free will. That is why I say "manipulated" instead of "forced." Here is what Kaname has said on the topic:

Kaname to Yuuki (chapter 49): I would hate it if the lies build up between us, so . . . [some other confession]...I made as much use as I possibly could of the closeness that existed between you and Kiryuu-kun... [other confessions]....My hands are far more tainted than you can imagine, Yuuki

This is Kaname admitting that the manipulation of Zero is wrong. Kaname is a flawed character. He is still a good guy, but he is flawed. This is not me fangirling Zero: This is me quoting Kaname.

Note: Zero is the racist. Kaname is not the racist.

Your evidence only supports arc 1 in terms of Kaname 'manipulating' Yuuki or Zero.

And of course Kaname is flawed, everybody in Vk. None of them are perfect or angels. They all have their flaws, bad traits, dark sides etc.

Sorry, had to step away. I also needed the break; I don't think anyone was enjoying the conversation, including me.

********************

@Bloodredhead:

Back on the off-topic of Kaname: I'm glad we can agree Kaname has flaws. I was not trying to focus on Kaname. That topic just kind of happened.

I personally do not care what word is used to describe what Kaname did to Zero in the first arc. Whatever that word is, Zero was a chess piece in the first arc, and that chess piece was "influenced" by Kaname.

I brought up this case of being an "influenced" chess piece because this is what Yuuki brought up in chapter 76.

****************************
Back on topic:
Zero: [gives Kaname's message]

Yuuki: "It's time to end with his immaturity;" you thought that's what's in my mind. Thank you for the message. At least I know Kaname has not forgotten about me.

Maybe I'm just a chess piece in his hand...then I will live like a chess piece...Stay where I should be...Do what I'm expected to do...walk as Kaname wants me to, and go see him afterwards.

::As Yuuki tries to walk past, Zero grabs Yuuki's arm::

To me, these words of Yuuki sound unhappy, not loving, and even a bit sarcastic and self-pitying.

To sweetsolace: When Zero is delivering the message, we cannot see his eyes. This neither confirms nor discredits your theory. When we can see his eyes, he is grabbing Yuuki's arm.



Zero has not that many facial expressions. I think his face here matches the sympathetic face he gave Aidou in this lower picture, the Aidou who just watched his father die by Kaname.



Aidou: You, you actually came to see how I am doing, right? You came to see if I'm tormented by hatred for Kaname-sama, and for his sister too...No way...I defintely won't become like that. I won't become like you.

::Zero makes the face::

Aidou: No matter how hard it is right now. D*mnit! I'm thinking nothing but bad things...d*mnit.

******************************

Zero's face looks like he is expressing sympathy and pity towards Yuuki when he grabbed her arm. Even Yuuki's words just before did not sound happy (well, to me).

My point is that in this scene it does not look like Zero feels rejected (The title of the thread). I think that Zero is sympathizing with Yuuki. He has been a chess piece before.

Sweetsolace: your theory sounds fine. My last objection is that it does not explain Zero's facial expression. The guy does not talk much. Most of the time, when I want to figure out what he is thinking, I have to compare his face to past expressions he has made.

Zero jealous (gun gallery/accusing Yuuki of wanting to be bitten by Kaname/ch11)
The eyebrows are not parallel to the eye, but slanted upwards:


Zero passionate (picture was too big...needed to be a link, see far right):
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-24/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Zero angry:


None of these faces match better than the compassion/pity face.

Yuuki might know Zero very well, but she doesn't know that Zero loves her even now. Or even before. Which is why I don't take what she says about Zero's thoughts at full value. I trust Zero's face more.

If Zero felt rejection at that moment, why would his face show the same expression he showed to a grieving Aidou? Compassion and pity make more sense.

There is not much that Zero would pity in a pureblood, except maybe another unhappy chess piece. Which is why I posted my unpopular theory; it is just strange to have Zero pity someone else.

caela wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

caela wrote:umm...I don't see the fangirling. Yuuki has made it clear that even a betrayal would not stop her love for Kaname. That does not mean that she cannot have moments of doubt. It would take alot more than this for her to change her mind and choose Zero.

Also, treating people like chess pieces is not a way to treat a fiancee (If this is what Kaname is doing). Its not bitterness, its common courtesy. I don't walk around thinking about how to use people. Kaname knows how much Yuuki loves him. All he would have to do is ask her to do it. Racism is bad, and so is this.

The example you gave of Yuuki frowning and blushing was also a high stress/high emotion moment of helplessness for Yuuki (Ouri's death). I welcome any theory you have that can link Zero to the same emotional level as Ouri's death or Yuuki's situation in chapter 32.

About Kaname using Yuuki as a chess piece, his message seemed more to me that he wanted Yuuki to distrust him, not become one of his chess pieces. He doesnt want Yuuki involved in his plans. Its Yuuki who made that decision herself, her, no-one else. She wants to be involved.Its purely her decision, Kaname can't manipulate her own free will. This is yuuki's choice, and i believe it shows how much she believe's in kaname (which i find very adorable).

caela wrote:Yes, I am working with Yuuki's assumption that she is to be a chess piece. We do not know Kaname's actual plan.

I totally agree that at all points both Zero and Yuuki were given free will. That is why I say "manipulated" instead of "forced." Here is what Kaname has said on the topic:

Kaname to Yuuki (chapter 49): I would hate it if the lies build up between us, so . . . [some other confession]...I made as much use as I possibly could of the closeness that existed between you and Kiryuu-kun... [other confessions]....My hands are far more tainted than you can imagine, Yuuki

This is Kaname admitting that the manipulation of Zero is wrong. Kaname is a flawed character. He is still a good guy, but he is flawed. This is not me fangirling Zero: This is me quoting Kaname.

Note: Zero is the racist. Kaname is not the racist.

Your evidence only supports arc 1 in terms of Kaname 'manipulating' Yuuki or Zero.

And of course Kaname is flawed, everybody in Vk. None of them are perfect or angels. They all have their flaws, bad traits, dark sides etc.

Sorry, had to step away. I also needed the break; I don't think anyone was enjoying the conversation, including me.

********************

@Bloodredhead:

Back on the off-topic of Kaname: I'm glad we can agree Kaname has flaws. I was not trying to focus on Kaname. That topic just kind of happened.

I personally do not care what word is used to describe what Kaname did to Zero in the first arc. Whatever that word is, Zero was a chess piece in the first arc, and that chess piece was "influenced" by Kaname.

I brought up this case of being an "influenced" chess piece because this is what Yuuki brought up in chapter 76.

****************************
Back on topic:
Zero: [gives Kaname's message]

Yuuki: "It's time to end with his immaturity;" you thought that's what's in my mind. Thank you for the message. At least I know Kaname has not forgotten about me.

Maybe I'm just a chess piece in his hand...then I will live like a chess piece...Stay where I should be...Do what I'm expected to do...walk as Kaname wants me to, and go see him afterwards.

::As Yuuki tries to walk past, Zero grabs Yuuki's arm::

To me, these words of Yuuki sound unhappy, not loving, and even a bit sarcastic and self-pitying.

To sweetsolace: When Zero is delivering the message, we cannot see his eyes. This neither confirms nor discredits your theory. When we can see his eyes, he is grabbing Yuuki's arm.



Zero has not that many facial expressions. I think his face here matches the sympathetic face he gave Aidou in this lower picture, the Aidou who just watched his father die by Kaname.



Aidou: You, you actually came to see how I am doing, right? You came to see if I'm tormented by hatred for Kaname-sama, and for his sister too...No way...I defintely won't become like that. I won't become like you.

::Zero makes the face::

Aidou: No matter how hard it is right now. D*mnit! I'm thinking nothing but bad things...d*mnit.

******************************

Zero's face looks like he is expressing sympathy and pity towards Yuuki when he grabbed her arm. Even Yuuki's words just before did not sound happy (well, to me).

My point is that in this scene it does not look like Zero feels rejected (The title of the thread). I think that Zero is sympathizing with Yuuki. He has been a chess piece before.

Sweetsolace: your theory sounds fine. My last objection is that it does not explain Zero's facial expression. The guy does not talk much. Most of the time, when I want to figure out what he is thinking, I have to compare his face to past expressions he has made.

Zero jealous (gun gallery/accusing Yuuki of wanting to be bitten by Kaname/ch11)
The eyebrows are not parallel to the eye, but slanted upwards:


Zero passionate (picture was too big...needed to be a link, see far right):
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-24/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Zero angry:


None of these faces match better than the compassion/pity face.

Yuuki might know Zero very well, but she doesn't know that Zero loves her even now. Or even before. Which is why I don't take what she says about Zero's thoughts at full value. I trust Zero's face more.

If Zero felt rejection at that moment, why would his face show the same expression he showed to a grieving Aidou? Compassion and pity make more sense.

There is not much that Zero would pity in a pureblood, except maybe another unhappy chess piece. Which is why I posted my unpopular theory; it is just strange to have Zero pity someone else.

Caela you really always makes me agree with you. Sweetsolaces theory about Zero couldn´t wait to tell Yuuki about Kaname didn´t make any sense to me. Zero´s face did give more this message: "Why do I have to do this?" And when he grabbed her arm i didnt see "rejection" in it. Just like Zero said to Maria. He don´t feel betrayed by Yuuki and he know knows that he´ll never get what he wanted and from the start of the manga he has never intended to get Yuuki for himself so why would he do that? thats do not give any meaning Caela was right about the pitying look. Zero did give both Aidou and Yuuki that look because he knows how it´s feel to get used and betrayed in the end. Even the hunters what to use him...

To juliet:
I can see your view. I did say before that if Yuuki can move up in this chess game to reach Kaname's status, then that would be good. But because she still sees herself as a chess piece in Kaname's hands (so he is the player) shows her inferiority complex in their relationship. That is my opinion and I don't think we will agree so let's just end it here.

To nina:
Cool! Because I also don't have much to add either once I think about it. We would just be going in circles.xD

To caela and VampireCythia:
Agreed.

@caela

When Zero is delivering the message, we cannot see his eyes. This neither confirms nor discredits your theory. When we can see his eyes, he is grabbing Yuuki's arm.

yes thats why I said "his eyes were shaded when he delivered the message". I also said there was no instruction for him that said he will be the one to deliver the message in case Yuki delayed in getting it , "for all I know" he could not wait to deliver it himself because he cannot wait for Yuki to hear it from Kaien.

My point is that in this scene it does not look like Zero feels rejected (The title of the thread). I think that Zero is sympathizing with Yuuki. He has been a chess piece before.
My last objection is that it does not explain Zero's facial expression. The guy does not talk much. Most of the time, when I want to figure out what he is thinking, I have to compare his face to past expressions he has made.

Which is why I don't take what she says about Zero's thoughts at full value. I trust Zero's face more.

If Zero felt rejection at that moment, why would his face show the same expression he showed to a grieving Aidou? Compassion and pity make more sense.

that might be but I dont believe that's the only reason. Zero is the one who was left over when Yuki chose him, now they're together again, he would be fool not to do anything to win her back especially when he doesnt have competition around to hinder him. We all know he has feelings for her. Saying all this is just Zero's personality to care is like shooting blind because of a hovering light. Just basing it on his personality while his expression shows NOTHING too strong is assuming things, especially when his thoughts doesn't show and especially when his actions are contradicting each other. So I prefer my interpretation as it fits the circumstances.

@cynthia

Sweetsolaces theory about Zero couldn´t wait to tell Yuuki about Kaname didn´t make any sense to me. Zero´s face did give more this message: "Why do I have to do this?" And when he grabbed her arm i didnt see "rejection" in it. Just like Zero said to Maria. He don´t feel betrayed by Yuuki and he know knows that he´ll never get what he wanted and from the start of the manga he has never intended to get Yuuki for himself so why would he do that? thats do not give any meaning

Im not the only one who support this so you are pretty bias singling me out
Ive stated my reasons why I think its possible and no one can actually be sure what Zero's doing and which of it is real since he's blank most of the time, literally. Yes a zeki response would make "more sense" to you while this fits me more. I dont believe a person as contradicting as him would not change his motive for once in his life, I believe at some point he will come across his breaking point and it will show, eventually. Like they say, when there's smoke, there's fire.

I think its possible and no one can actually be sure what Zero's doing

Yes apparently, that's a certainty there, we do not know...we can only take guesses here, which mine is that he was offended by Yuuki's remark? because what she actually tells him is like " Oh right, I know what you say but I am willing to do this for him" and she actually states it like a certainty, so its like calling him "pre-occupied", she judges what he may say, without actually waiting to hear more like she is in a defense mode when Zero has not actually said anything, and then she sets out to leave and as Kara said this statement in collaboration with the wind that brings her scent to him, could provoked or attracted him to clarify his position. Now Yuuki's blushing (which she adopts in various phases of the manga) sees to me that she is in surprise and somewhat embarrassed mode because she does not understand his gesture. Is he angry? has he another thing in his mind? like us she is a bit confused there.

To juliet:
I can see your view. I did say before that if Yuuki can move up in this chess game to reach Kaname's status, then that would be good. But because she still sees herself as a chess piece in Kaname's hands (so he is the player) shows her inferiority complex in their relationship. That is my opinion and I don't think we will agree so let's just end it here.

Yes...its obvious we shall not agree, okay, case closed (for now)!.

juliet wrote:

I think its possible and no one can actually be sure what Zero's doing

Yes apparently, that's a certainty there, we do not know...we can only take guesses here, which mine is that he was offended by Yuuki's remark? because what she actually tells him is like " Oh right, I know what you say but I am willing to do this for him" and she actually states it like a certainty, so its like calling him "pre-occupied", she judges what he may say, without actually waiting to hear more like she is in a defense mode when Zero has not actually said anything, and then she sets out to leave and as Kara said this statement in collaboration with the wind that brings her scent to him, could provoked or attracted him to clarify his position. Now Yuuki's blushing (which she adopts in various phases of the manga) sees to me that she is in surprise and somewhat embarrassed mode because she does not understand his gesture. Is he angry? has he another thing in his mind? like us she is a bit confused there.

Yuki's almost always in "assume mode" and Im not surprised that she is. Zero never discusses anything about what bothered her the most, to me its like he's pretending that nothing happened between them, and in Yuki's case that's exactly the opposite---the gap between them is quite clear for her, and she sees it as either completely black or completely white for Zero, who never gives her a chance to change her mind by telling his point of view. His actions even support her beliefs further and I think that is not helping either case.
For Yuki's point of view, she is closed to seeing Zero's mind and therefore assumes that his state is the same as when she had left it. In fact... she ALWAYS assumes how he feels, thinks, his health after the incident.

In chapter 72 or 71, Yuki also assumed that their views will never meet, and Zero, like he has gone mute, didn't say anything. I see the same thing happening in this scenario.

For Zero's point of view, he is probably provoked to become aggressive, yet again, for another seemingly convenient excuse on his part. Now Im beginning to wonder why he cant tell Yuki his thoughts? What is so heavy in doing that task I wonder, a task that should be so simple and would cause less misunderstanding and less burden for Yuki? I believe it would be quite immature for him to think that he is doing it for his hatred/pride or for her, because its obviously NOT helping anyone.

Like you said, he probably moved to react to her comment because of her scent (and also his hunger) combined this made him impulsive.
But then again in chapter 71 or 72 he also didnt react as much to her when she assumed for him, nor does he react so much when Kaien or Kaito also assumes for him. So this leads me to think there was something special about Yuki's comment that instantly put him on edge uncontrollably. And yes, it was Kaname.
Now why Kaname? And also it was so timely that Yuki was, in a way, rejecting Zero's expectations for her reaction, why was his reaction quite strong? It sends another message definitely, simply because she had mentioned his rival and he reacted to it.

sweetsolace wrote:@caela

When Zero is delivering the message, we cannot see his eyes. This neither confirms nor discredits your theory. When we can see his eyes, he is grabbing Yuuki's arm.

yes thats why I said "his eyes were shaded when he delivered the message". I also said there was no instruction for him that said he will be the one to deliver the message in case Yuki delayed in getting it , "for all I know" he could not wait to deliver it himself because he cannot wait for Yuki to hear it from Kaien.

My point is that in this scene it does not look like Zero feels rejected (The title of the thread). I think that Zero is sympathizing with Yuuki. He has been a chess piece before.
My last objection is that it does not explain Zero's facial expression. The guy does not talk much. Most of the time, when I want to figure out what he is thinking, I have to compare his face to past expressions he has made.

Which is why I don't take what she says about Zero's thoughts at full value. I trust Zero's face more.

If Zero felt rejection at that moment, why would his face show the same expression he showed to a grieving Aidou? Compassion and pity make more sense.

that might be but I dont believe that's the only reason. Zero is the one who was left over when Yuki chose him, now they're together again, he would be fool not to do anything to win her back especially when he doesnt have competition around to hinder him. We all know he has feelings for her. Saying all this is just Zero's personality to care is like shooting blind because of a hovering light. Just basing it on his personality while his expression shows NOTHING too strong is assuming things, especially when his thoughts doesn't show and especially when his actions are contradicting each other. So I prefer my interpretation as it fits the circumstances.

@cynthia

Sweetsolaces theory about Zero couldn´t wait to tell Yuuki about Kaname didn´t make any sense to me. Zero´s face did give more this message: "Why do I have to do this?" And when he grabbed her arm i didnt see "rejection" in it. Just like Zero said to Maria. He don´t feel betrayed by Yuuki and he know knows that he´ll never get what he wanted and from the start of the manga he has never intended to get Yuuki for himself so why would he do that? thats do not give any meaning

Im not the only one who support this so you are pretty bias singling me out
Ive stated my reasons why I think its possible and no one can actually be sure what Zero's doing and which of it is real since he's blank most of the time, literally. Yes a zeki response would make "more sense" to you while this fits me more. I dont believe a person as contradicting as him would not change his motive for once in his life, I believe at some point he will come across his breaking point and it will show, eventually. Like they say, when there's smoke, there's fire.

@Sweetsolace:

Both bolded statements that you wrote do not come together well. Zero is either:

(1) Trying not to show emotion and once in awhile a strong emotion leaks out.

(2) Trying not to show emotion and once in awhile a weak emotion leaks out.

I'm going to assume that you actually agree with the first option because it is easier to suppress weak emotions than stronger ones.

For Zero to show any emotion, it must be a strong one. Pity is a strong emotion...

Zero's contradiction: Showing pity and grabbing her arm is not a contradiction. Yuuki just told Zero that she was going to be a chess piece and then go see Kaname. Yuuki was not going to leave Zero to go study for school. (that was a joke ) Chess pieces have only one function: to attack. The only option left was Yuuki must be going to attack Sara (from Zero's point of view). He grabbed her arm to stop Yuuki from exposing herself from danger from Sara, not to stop Yuuki from going to Kaname. (Zero also thinks that Yuuki is no match for Sara...)

No matter your interpretation of Zero, there was no rush to grab Yuuki's arm to stop her from finding Kaname. The priority on both Zero's and Yuuki's minds should be Sara, especially with the new pills being obviously everywhere. Romance and rejection should be the furthest from Zero's mind in chapter 76: Things are about to get serious with Sara.

@Juliet: I would normally agree with that theory but it does not take into consideration Zero's facial expression during the Zero arm grab. Compare Zero's face in the following two links:

Chapter 76 arm grab:
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/23

Chapter 70 Zero pitying Aido:
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/70/20

To me, it looks like Zero is pitying Yuuki.

(edited three times)

@ caela: I don't know about you but how can you sure that in chapter 70, Zero pitied Aidou? I think he has that face, that emotion everytime.Not just hear Aidou say.And for me in chapter 76, when he grabed Yuuki's arm, his face seem not like when he with Aidou in chapter 70.I think he is kind of angry but not too much like the one you linked in chapter 46

Rikana-hime wrote:@ caela: I don't know about you but how can you sure that in chapter 70, Zero pitied Aidou? I think he has that face, that emotion everytime.Not just hear Aidou say.And for me in chapter 76, when he grabed Yuuki's arm, his face seem not like when he with Aidou in chapter 70.I think he is kind of angry but not too much like the one you linked in chapter 46

For me to answer this question, I needed to look over all the manga with Hino's new art style (chapters 50ish-76+).

(Less angry) Zero glaring at Kaname. Zero's eyebrows crinkle near his nose when angry plus his eyebrow curves slightly:


(another example of less angry) Zero unhappy with upcoming vampire/human ball: eyebrows curve towards nose. Eyebrows are not flat and not parallel to eye.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-28/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html


This is different from Zero's look in chapter 67: eyebrows straight. (overall, eyebrows straight, parallel and near eye, eyes focused and eyeballs two thirds exposed [since right pupil can still be seen]. Different from other picture's because view of scene is from a point higher than Zero)


***************************

These are all the faces that are similar to Zero's in chapter 76:

(1) chapter 71: Zero walking out of school after being spoken to by Yuuki. Eyes are unfocused.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/13

(2) Chapter 69: Zero watching Yuuki pass by while she is wearing handcuffs. Same expression as chapter 76. Eyes focused, eyebrows straight and close to eye, eyeballs two-thirds exposed. Possibly feeling sorry for Yuuki being in handcuffs.


(3) Chapter 57: Zero is remembering Yuuki. Eyes are unfocused, eyebrows straight and near eye, eyeballs two-thirds exposed.


(4) Chapter 70: With Aidou, who just saw his father killed. Eyebrows straight and near eye, eyes focused and eyeballs two thirds exposed.

I think what happened in VK 76 when Zero grabbed yuuki's arm is pretty clear.. Yuuki had been mentioning how she thinks kaname thinks of her as a chess piece and she would act accordingly and she was hurt by the fact that she is a chess piece in his game. I mean her expression when she looks back at Zero shows it. Zero saw that yuuki was sad/worried/hurt and so he held her arm when she was about to run away because even though he doesn't show it, he still cares and he knows her well enough to tell when she's worried. And Yuuki puts up her usual brave face and smile and tries to hide her worries when she asks him "what is it?" I am not sure if he pities her.. I mean I wouldn't put it that way.. I think its just his way of showing he knows what she's going through...

caela wrote:

Rikana-hime wrote:@ caela: I don't know about you but how can you sure that in chapter 70, Zero pitied Aidou? I think he has that face, that emotion everytime.Not just hear Aidou say.And for me in chapter 76, when he grabed Yuuki's arm, his face seem not like when he with Aidou in chapter 70.I think he is kind of angry but not too much like the one you linked in chapter 46

For me to answer this question, I needed to look over all the manga with Hino's new art style (chapters 50ish-76+).

(Less angry) Zero glaring at Kaname. Zero's eyebrows crinkle near his nose when angry plus his eyebrow curves slightly:


(another example of less angry) Zero unhappy with upcoming vampire/human ball: eyebrows curve towards nose. Eyebrows are not flat and not parallel to eye.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-28/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html


This is different from Zero's look in chapter 67: eyebrows straight. (overall, eyebrows straight, parallel and near eye, eyes focused and eyeballs two thirds exposed [since right pupil can still be seen]. Different from other picture's because view of scene is from a point higher than Zero)


***************************

These are all the faces that are similar to Zero's in chapter 76:

(1) chapter 71: Zero walking out of school after being spoken to by Yuuki. Eyes are unfocused.
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/13

(2) Chapter 69: Zero watching Yuuki pass by while she is wearing handcuffs. Same expression as chapter 76. Eyes focused, eyebrows straight and close to eye, eyeballs two-thirds exposed. Possibly feeling sorry for Yuuki being in handcuffs.


(3) Chapter 57: Zero is remembering Yuuki. Eyes are unfocused, eyebrows straight and near eye, eyeballs two-thirds exposed.


(4) Chapter 70: With Aidou, who just saw his father killed. Eyebrows straight and near eye, eyes focused and eyeballs two thirds exposed.

The looks of Zero's eyes that you give me when he with Aidou maybe look like when he in chapter 67.But to say that it's looks like or the same when he graped Yuuki's arm, I say no cause I can see his eyebrows curves slightly but not too much like the angry he is in the ball (The ball for me is still too much and the chapter 52 is aslo more)

@Rikana-hime

Sorry for not responding in awhile.

Looking for a picture of an even less angry Zero: Zero has been very emotionless on purpose throughout the second arc. Like three times a chapter he would actually make a face showing an emotion and they are strong emotions. (sympathy (Aido's father just died), surprise, anger, etc)

I only skimmed through chapters 50-76 last time I responded...so you have only my word that such a picture does not exist....Not so sure how far you can trust me ...it is my theory...lol.

If you can find a better fit for Zero's face in chapter 76....you know where to post the pages

@shizza24: yeah, pity is a bit extreme....okay sympathy