anti-vampire weapons...

Until now I believed that the anti-vampire weapons are two: the bloody rose and the artemis.
but it seems that there is one more: the sword.
I am talking about the sword that Rido uses to kill baby Kaname (and it has to be anti-vampire to kill a baby vampire) and the sword that Rido again uses against Haruka and Kaname recognizes it (I believe that it is the same sword, cause their shapes are the same but with Hino I can;t be sure for this )
Here the links for the scenes withe sword I am talking about:

http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/62/005/
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/38/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/38/14/

we know already that antivampire weapons were made by Kaname. And that the female ancestor use to have Artemis.
we also know that Artemis and bloody rose can't hurt Kaname (specially the bloody rose) cause they recognize him as their master
So my question is: if Kaname use to have Bloody rose as a weapon and the female anchestor had Artemis, then who had the sword??
Kaname said that the sword belongs to the hunters. but it is still confusing to me.
And another question: whyZero has the bloody rose? who gave it to him???
and why is written above the bloody rose the phrase: CROSSING DANGER???
http://th01.deviantart.com/fs27/300W/i/2008/035/e/7/Bloody_Rose_Gun_by_wOmpy_ness.jpg
Is the bloody rose connected with Cross? I can't think any other explanation why this phrase is there.

Is the inscription "Crossing" on Zero's gun a coincidence? Can it be related to Cross? Do you have any other piece of information from where Zero got his gun?

About the Bloody Rose, I do not know, it's just does not fit Kaname's profile but is there a connection between the Blood + Rose? (bloody Rose)
We've seen that Kaname gave to Yuuki a rose that blooms only every ten years and he promised that one day he will get her to that place. Also Kaname stated clearly that Bloody Rose recognizes both his voice and his blood.
If he created the anti-vampire weapons and plus Bloody Rose can it be the ancestor herself that along with her sacrifice gave that gun to the hunters? Zero's ancestors (probably) or maybe Cross in order to have weapons effective in the limitation of the vampires? Something to start with?
Another thought that passed through my mind is that Cross should also have ancestors who ate the female ancestor, perhaps that's why his genes are so strong and he lives for such a long time (that can be the case for Zero as well).
About the sword it seems to belong in the Kuran familly and since they have kept it, it's logical that it may be the male's weapon as Artemis is for the females of the familly.
So in summary Bloody Rose can belong to the hunters but originally be created from Kaname and offered to the humans by the female Kuran ancestor, the sword seems more to be Kaname's case (for the past) in the present we have not seen him using a weapon but his powers.
So we have sword-Kaname, Artemis-Yuuki, Zero-Bloody Rose. Still what puzzles is Bloody Rose? Why was it called Rose and why does it have thorns? Is it another coicindence? Or perhaps the ancestor sacrificed her self in a garden of roses? and the gun took the name after the place that was filled with blood?
LOL I love making theories.

Are we sure that artemis can't hurt Kaname? I always thought that he asked Yuki to kill him with Artemis, at the famous quote...
The Bloody-Rose is a puzzle to me too! I sence a conection with Kaname, due to his love for roses but i still can't figure it out...
About the anti-vampire weapons, i would't be surpised if there are more of them out there! What i say is, do the association only hound down level -E? And even if they do now, i doubt they always did. So perhaps some of them, like Cross, still have anti-vampire weapons, and more surprises await for us... :study:

ariel wrote:Are we sure that artemis can't hurt Kaname? I always thought that he asked Yuki to kill him with Artemis, at the famous quote...
The Bloody-Rose is a puzzle to me too! I sence a conection with Kaname, due to his love for roses but i still can't figure it out...
About the anti-vampire weapons, i would't be surpised if there are more of them out there! What i say is, do the association only hound down level -E? And even if they do now, i doubt they always did. So perhaps some of them, like Cross, still have anti-vampire weapons, and more surprises await for us... :study:

Of course Artemis can hurt him along with any other vampire weapon (like bloody rose that we've seen before cutting his hand). If you think about it, it's freaky he has grown a new hand aaaaaaaaaaaaa
Ya, back to reality, most of out theories turned to nothing because as the chapter 63 revealed it was the female ancestor that gave the power in order for anti vampire weapons to exist as well as she was the founder of the hunters.

So one theory is that since she had got Kaname's blood, even though it is not in the manga the scene but we can assume that they exchanged blood) his blood running into her became also a part of the mother metal, since she gave her heart. Maybe that can be the answer...and also explain why from all the vampires only the Kurans have the ability to wield the weapons...
So he probably can command Bloody rose because in a sense it has a portion of its blood. I was amazed though to see a weapon to respond. Like it has a soul or something. Perhaps a part of this woman is in the weapon?
If that theory is true in the same sense he can probably command Artemis...
Strange things happened, so the mother metal was for the humans/ hunters. But still Kurans made weapons out of them? Let's see if Kaname made the weapons or took it from the hunters...

I am not sure that Artemis actually can hurt him. If you remember there is one scene in the anime (and probably and in the manga although I am not sure) that Yuuki has started to lose her mind and she is walking at the school. And suddenly she attacks Kaname with Artemis and his is stopping Artemis with his hand. He didn't seem to suffer from some pain or something like that thow.(but I am sure he could hide it well if he was actually in pain, especially in front of Yuuki but I truly don't believe he felt any pain.)

I remember the scene.... back then she used Artemis as a simble staff, so she didn't hurt him in purpose i think; she was only trying to defend herself, not to kill! But i agry with Juliet; anti-vampire weapons can hurt Kaname! He just have a way with them, you know, a way to control them...

well I am not sure about this. If Artemis didn't have a use as an anti-vampire weapon then why Yuuki have it for her patrols? Zero had bloody rose and yuuki Artemis. How else they were supposed to push away vampire if they had to?And I remember in the scene that when Kaname touched Artemis somthing like electricity exits from Artemis.

i remember that as well, i think Juliet is right about something with the ''blood bond'' with that women. since as we know Kaname can somehow controll bloody rose and he can touch the hunter sword as well. but when he touch artamis ore when Yuuki point Artamis zomething like ''eletric storm'' was to see.
So i believe that Artamis is made from someone in the Kuran?
It's just a gues soo xD

nuitetoile21 wrote:well I am not sure about this. If Artemis didn't have a use as an anti-vampire weapon then why Yuuki have it for her patrols? Zero had bloody rose and yuuki Artemis. How else they were supposed to push away vampire if they had to?And I remember in the scene that when Kaname touched Artemis somthing like electricity exits from Artemis.

It is an anti-vampire weapon but at that phase Artemis is used as a rod not as a scyth, as Yuuki in that phase is a human and her powers are limited, Artemis comes in full range when Yuuki changes back.
If she cuts Kaname's head with the scyth won't he get affected? Of course he will.

>Something wrong with Kaname's ability to hold weapons? or something else?
in chapter 67, Kaname holds a sword that looks like the sword he used in chapter 38.

chapter 67

Spoiler:

chapter 38

Spoiler:

Kaname killed Hanadagi with it and the hand holding it look like it bled. Before when he hold it he has no reaction from it, and only when he was able to kill someone with it did it make his hand bleed or something?

Also, after he killed Hanadagi and Nagamichi, his hand look charred and black.

Spoiler:

and ruka had to use her coat to wrench the weapon off him, similar to what yuki did when she took off bloody rose thorns from zero when it was draining his blood.

what do you think happened with kaname?

I had think at Bloody Rose and Artemis.
I wonder if this 2 weapons has a deep connection with kaname. From what i can guess from vk Artemis always was in Kuran familly. Juuri had used this weapon and now is in yuuki possesion - it was even when she was a human.

Bloody Rose: apparently kaname is BR master. the gun recognise kaname when it taste his blood and listen by him when he ask it to release him from veins. If BR listened by him after taste his blood this means the gun taste his blood before - the theory about weapons drank their "master" blood after they are use can be true, special if the weapons have a second form as BR or Artemis.

I just wonder if this 2 weapons have something from kaname too, a part of his.

About the sword: this sword seems to be in kuran possesion too from ages. probably kaname kept some weapons for the kurans.

Of course those two weapon have something with overs soKaname. They were made by hunters but from the metal with Ancestor Women heart and blood. Kaname and she were so they propably have fed on each other. It meeans that in her flesh was a little of Kaname's heart and in result, he is a master of those weapon.

aya-chan wrote:I had think at Bloody Rose and Artemis.
I wonder if this 2 weapons has a deep connection with kaname. From what i can guess from vk Artemis always was in Kuran familly. Juuri had used this weapon and now is in yuuki possesion - it was even when she was a human.

Bloody Rose: apparently kaname is BR master. the gun recognise kaname when it taste his blood and listen by him when he ask it to release him from veins. If BR listened by him after taste his blood this means the gun taste his blood before - the theory about weapons drank their "master" blood after they are use can be true, special if the weapons have a second form as BR or Artemis.

I just wonder if this 2 weapons have something from kaname too, a part of his.

About the sword: this sword seems to be in kuran possesion too from ages. probably kaname kept some weapons for the kurans.

Τhere are some question in the manga that Sweetsolace and I realised recently that directly connect Kaname to the anti-vampire weapons.





since the page was too long, I could not put it but between these two pages Kaname says that he used a part of his own body in order to experiment

so this the one proof that Kaname has the anti-vampire power, his body's powers can kill others...


Then later Kaname says that he should be the one sacrificed and not the hooded woman
...they both share the power... but the anti-vampire originally can be found at Kaname, (perhaps the blood that he had shared initially with the hooded lady-where she had said to him, "Lend me your power"...to be the answer how she obtained the power and his power to be the one with the original anti-vampire power...

@sweetsolace i needed to see the posts, a part of Kaname's condition has been discussed here;

https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t422-vampire-knight-68-do-kaname-s-powers-lessen-whereas-zero :lol:

Lol I'll quote my self here since i'm too lazy to write it again from scratch

I'll post the links about the anti-vampire sword.

OK about Kaname’s anti-vampire sword:

I think this particular sword it might has a special meaning cuz we saw the same sword in several scenes. Take a look to the below links:

1. Rido brought the sword to the fight with Haruka and afterwards Kaname held the sword without any difficulty.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v08/c038/17.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v08/c038/19.html

2. Kaname killed Aidou dono with the same anti-vampire sword, but this time the sword causes him a great harm.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c067/29.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c067/30.html

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c068

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c068/2.html

3. And I think the same sword arrears to the scene where Rido sacrifice the baby Kaname to awake the ancestor Kaname although I’m not so sure for this scene cuz we see it from afar.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c062/5.html

Apparently this sword belonged to Rido … so do you think the sword could related with the fact that Kaname’s powers seems to lessen together with the blood tablets which we assume that Sara modified/spoiled?

sweetsolace wrote: Kaname killed Hanadagi with it and the hand holding it look like it bled. Before when he hold it he has no reaction from it, and only when he was able to kill someone with it did it make his hand bleed or something?

This is something new! Good observation sweetsolace. It is something that could explain why Kaname's hand looks so "destroyed" now ... cuz he killed two. Also Zero's hand after he killed Rido seems to have the same "side-effects" but in early stage whereas we didn't see it when he only shot Shizuka ...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v10/c046/20.html

In overall I believe Kaname has the ability to hold and use the anti-vampire weapons ... the fact that now there are some side effects it could be something common for every user since the anti-vampire weapons seems to suck blood/energy. Or could be a combination of factors ... the twisted tablets reduced the capacity to regenerate, plus the fact that he had to give the final blow to two vampires. We haven't see before Kaname killing by using an AW ...

juliet wrote:Then later Kaname says that he should be the one sacrificed and not the hooded woman
...they both share the power... but the anti-vampire originally can be found at Kaname, (perhaps the blood that he had shared initially with the hooded lady-where she had said to him, "Lend me your power"...to be the answer how she obtained the power and his power to be the one with the original anti-vampire power...

Yes this also could explains why Kurans had the ability to use the anti-vampire weapons without necessarily be hooded woman's offsprings ... this would be great!!!!

Mean while another observation talking about powers, Yuuki after drinking from Kaname (and perhaps a reason why he so much insisted that Yuuki should be drinking from him and NOT the tablets) have significantly increasd..
logical she consumed powers with his blood as it always happens (and this feeding this time seemed to be extended).
So to say that may also weakened him (if he takes the tablets and he has lost a part of his rehealing power). All is IF..if course but..you never know..lol

ah, sorry I didn't know there was already a topic for what happened in chapter 68. new here. :bom:

aya-chan wrote:
Bloody Rose: apparently kaname is BR master. the gun recognise kaname when it taste his blood and listen by him when he ask it to release him from veins. If BR listened by him after taste his blood this means the gun taste his blood before - the theory about weapons drank their "master" blood after they are use can be true, special if the weapons have a second form as BR or Artemis.

I just wonder if this 2 weapons have something from kaname too, a part of his.

About the sword: this sword seems to be in kuran possesion too from ages. probably kaname kept some weapons for the kurans.

Possible...I haven't thought of that before, Bloody rose could've sampled blood from Kaname so he became it's master. i think BR and artemis came from Kaname originally, same in the flashback shown in chapter 64

Kaname was the one who named Artemis and both weapons were in his possession during the time the hooded woman finished making the factory of antivampire weapons.
The Kuran sword appeared three times, it seems it has been with the Kuran since the time when Rido resurrected Kaname... Nina's link shows the pic where the sword seen with blood....i think it was the same sword used to kill the baby, and later on the same sword young kaname used when Kuran house was attacked by Rido. Later on he uses this sword to kill Hanadagi and Nagamichi.. I wonder if it's different from the other antivampire weapons like BR/artemis?

juliet wrote:
so this the one proof that Kaname has the anti-vampire power, his body's powers can kill others...
Then later Kaname says that he should be the one sacrificed and not the hooded woman
...they both share the power... but the anti-vampire originally can be found at Kaname, (perhaps the blood that he had shared initially with the hooded lady-where she had said to him, "Lend me your power"...to be the answer how she obtained the power and his power to be the one with the original anti-vampire power...

@sweetsolace i needed to see the posts, a part of Kaname's condition has been discussed here;
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t422-vampire-knight-68-do-kaname-s-powers-lessen-whereas-zero :lol:

ok thanks I didn't know it was already being discussed. ;) what do you mean by "posts"..?
that's right... I think Kaname was the true origin of the antivampire ability due to his experiments in chapter 64. in chapter 62 after the humans expelled him from their village, he sort of hated his existence as an immortal, because people thought he was a monster....i think he carried this feeling until the woman came, and he performed the experiment "to find a way to die"... he used a part of himself in the experiment, and it was only mentioned that it was still ongoing...but i think it was finished, and the result was the antivampire ability. Kaname already knew what he had to do, I think, and that he planned to sacrificed himself for his own reasons (wanting to die) and also to give the remaining humans hope (by giving them the power of the weapons to kill purebloods) but I think the hooded woman knew beforehand and she became sacrifice instead of him.
Kaname was guilty of this I think...So he went to carry on her goals instead of dying..he forge the weapons out of the furnace (ch64. it already seemed like it was following his every commands?? maybe because he used parts of himself during the experiment) and he also taught the hunters the "wisdom" to use the weapons and to have the natural instinct to hate vampires.

juliet wrote:she consumed powers with his blood as it always happens (and this feeding this time seemed to be extended).
So to say that may also weakened him (if he takes the tablets and he has lost a part of his rehealing power). All is IF..if course but..you never know..lol

about that...i noticed that Kaname drained Yuki in chapter 60 right? as punishment for nearly biting zero? ..anyway so then Yuki drinks a bit of kaname's blood to see into his past...right when yuki was about to wake up, Kaname drinks blood tablets?? for what?
doesnt make sense he would need the tablets to sustain his hunger when he already recently fed from Yuki large amts of blood. He should be full.

nina wrote:
This is someting new! Good observation sweetsolace. It is something that could explain why Kaname's hand looks so "destroyed" now ... cuz he killed two. Also Zero's hand after he killed Rido seems to have the same "side-effects" but in early stage whereas we didn't see it when he only shot Shizuka ...

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v10/c046/20.html

In overall I believe Kaname has the ability to hold and use the anti-vampire weapons ... the fact that now there are some side effects it could be something common for every user since the anti-vampire weapons seems to suck blood/energy. Or could be a combination of factors ... the twisted tablets reduced the capacity to regenerate, plus the fact that he had to give the final blow to two vampires. We haven't see before Kaname killing by using an AW ...

thank you for the link! i never noticed it was the sword Rido used to kill the baby? ..
about Kaname's hand in chapter 68, the one that looks burnt/blackish, I have a guess that it was not fried or caused by steam/fire injury
in chapter 62,

Kaname's hand looks the same, except for the skin color...here it looks more light...in 67, it looks black, but the drawing is the same.
My theory is that it looks lighter because Kaname just got replrenisment from the baby kaname, and he was healing. In 68 after he killed nagamichi and hanadagi, it looks blackish as the sword took blood from him, or he lost blood or he has problems with healing.

*it couldn't be that Kaname suffered from steam/electrical injury if his hand looks that black.. burn injury of that color would mean there is smoke involve..if its electrical injury it wont have that color.
more like it has some kind of postnecrotic color...the type you find in mummified corpses (usually black).. and the texture of kaname's skin matches that from he was first resurrected, only difference is color.

Kaname can use weapons..he was seen to be able to hold BR, artemis, and the kuran sword. The question if there are side effects to using this, or rather its the adverse effect.

Yuki comment on that chapter when she pulled off zero's thorns that BR was like a vampire when it was sucking his blood.. BR is an av weapon...perhaps other av weapons have this effect, and so does the Kuran sword? hmm

Also wonder why the hunters would have stocks of blood tablets...maybe they use it to replenish their blood since they go on missions..but its weird since the tabs are mainly as substitute for human blood used by vampires. maybe there's a special type of tablet for hunters? or maybe they use the tablets in case side effect of av weapon happens?

about the tampered tablets...you know where it says it interferes with regeneration? i dont seem to recall.

very interesting, I shall present all we know and connect them together tomorrow...

sweetsolace wrote:Kaname was the one who named Artemis and both weapons were in his possession

If Kaname named the 2 weapons how he came with the Bloody Rose? I mean if only these two have names maybe there is a symbolism behind the names … for example what if the BR related to resin rose Kaname gave to Yuuki? A random thought but … I’m dying to know about that rose which blooms every 10 years …

juliet wrote: so this the one proof that Kaname has the anti-vampire power, his body's powers can kill others...

sweetsolace wrote: that's right... I think Kaname was the true origin of the antivampire ability due to his experiments

Ok I’m confused here … You both mean Kaname has a special anti-vampire ability like a special power which any other PB hasn’t/hadn’t (?) or that it was a special knowledge gained due the experiments lol. I always thought the later though …

sweetsolace wrote: Kaname's hand looks the same, except for the skin color...here it looks more light...in 67, it looks black, but the drawing is the same.
My theory is that it looks lighter because Kaname just got replrenisment from the baby kaname, and he was healing. In 68 after he killed nagamichi and hanadagi, it looks blackish as the sword took blood from him, or he lost blood or he has problems with healing.

*it couldn't be that Kaname suffered from steam/electrical injury if his hand looks that black.. burn injury of that color would mean there is smoke involve..if its electrical injury it wont have that color.
more like it has some kind of postnecrotic color...the type you find in mummified corpses (usually black).. and the texture of kaname's skin matches that from he was first resurrected, only difference is color.

I get it … you mean we have the reverse process between the two incidents … regeneration and disintegration. Although I’ve never connected the 2 scenes I always thought that Kaname’s damaged hand on 68 ch. was the result of necrosis >>> low or zero ability to regenerate …

sweetsolace wrote: Kaname can use weapons..he was seen to be able to hold BR, artemis, and the kuran sword. The question if there are side effects to using this, or rather its the adverse effect.

Well if there is no involvement of adulterate tablets then it might be an expected side effect thus Kaname took tablets before he leave the mansion, cuz he knew he had to use the anti-v.- sword and he would need extra blood/energy. I also had the same questioning … why he needed tablets since he had almost drained Yuuki a few days before! (?)

The below references strengthen the speculation that anti-vampire W. suck blood from the users …

sweetsolace wrote: Yuki comment on that chapter when she pulled off zero's thorns that BR was like a vampire when it was sucking his blood.. BR is an av weapon...perhaps other av weapons have this effect, and so does the Kuran sword? hmm

Also wonder why the hunters would have stocks of blood tablets...maybe they use it to replenish their blood since they go on missions..but its weird since the tabs are mainly as substitute for human blood used by vampires. maybe there's a special type of tablet for hunters? or maybe they use the tablets in case side effect of av weapon happens?

sweetsolace wrote: about the tampered tablets...you know where it says it interferes with regeneration? i dont seem to recall.

Lol is logical you can not recall cuz it’s just a speculation ... if Sara tampered the tablets, one of the results it could be the reduction of regeneration. Sara’s ultimate goal is Kaname’s “head” … so in order to kill a PB is needed a hunter’s hand>>anti-VW to reduce the regenerate ability and then the final blow by taken the heart or the head if I recall well. So maybe Sara found a way through the tablets to replace the hunter hand! If that’s true Kaname is very vulnerable right now …

BTW welcome on board sweetsolace! Nice to have you here!

And what an avatar ...

All pure bloods have the ability to make anti vampire weapons, when kaname was making them he said he finds that if he mixes a certain part of the pb's body with the molten metal then it is able to create a weapon that kills vampires. As for the picture with him nameing the bloody rose and artimise he did spend time with the hunters after she sacreficed her self teaching them how to use her gifts to them, so it is possible they are the first weapons made. The sword however I belive might have been created from that first brew of metal he made.

Even in the picture where he is nameing them you can see the artimise is rejecting him from seeing the lightning around his hand. I ahve also recently became to belive that the thorns from bloody rose was it trying to reject zero, I think it might be it's defensive ability if a vampire trys to weild. But that is just thery.

juliet wrote:very interesting, I shall present all we know and connect them together tomorrow...

: yes~ juliet~ sorry I just posted now, haha~

nina wrote:
If Kaname named the 2 weapons how he came with the Bloody Rose? I mean if only these two have names maybe there is a symbolism behind the names … for example what if the BR related to resin rose Kaname gave to Yuuki? A random thought but … I’m dying to know about that rose which blooms every 10 years …

ah of course, it wasn't revealed yet that Kaname named artemis hmmm but I think it may be possible that it was an inspiration from the Rose. maybe from the same rose that's inside the resin...and for some reason it became bloody

Ok I’m confused here … You both mean Kaname has a special anti-vampire ability like a special power which any other PB hasn’t/hadn’t (?) or that it was a special knowledge gained due the experiments lol. I always thought the later though …

yes I think.. the topic was brought up in this forum and others, something about kaname not having the ability, so the answer is that Kaname is probably the true origin of the av ability..

I get it … you mean we have the reverse process between the two incidents … regeneration and disintegration. Although I’ve never connected the 2 scenes I always thought that Kaname’s damaged hand on 68 ch. was the result of necrosis >>> low or zero ability to regenerate …

anything is possible right now with hino yet to reveal the answer.. i also think it could be necrosis of some sort... necrosis (for humans) happens blood supply is impeded on that portion of the body, the part loses nutrients and dies off.

Well if there is no involvement of adulterate tablets then it might be an expected side effect thus Kaname took tablets before he leave the mansion, cuz he knew he had to use the anti-v.- sword and he would need extra blood/energy. I also had the same questioning … why he needed tablets since he had almost drained Yuuki a few days before! (?)

ah its possible.. but it's been discussed before that Kaname took the tablets before knowing he was going to the Hanadagis so he couldn't have known he was going to need to replenish himself.. also, yuki's 'journey to the past' took days? I thought it was only a day..lol. yuki got a bit of kaname's blood and then sailed through his memories for a day, i think, since kaname changed yuki's clothes and he placed a rose on her as he did, if a few days passed the rose would've withered or something. (ermm what? LOL don't know how long a rose stays fresh? )

Lol is logical you can not recall cuz it’s just a speculation ... if Sara tampered the tablets, one of the results it could be the reduction of regeneration. Sara’s ultimate goal is Kaname’s “head” … so in order to kill a PB is needed a hunter’s hand>>anti-VW to reduce the regenerate ability and then the final blow by taken the heart or the head if I recall well. So maybe Sara found a way through the tablets to replace the hunter hand! If that’s true Kaname is very vulnerable right now …

that makes perfect sense. :bom: the tablets don't need someone to carry them, it just has to reach kaname, and he has to drink it to lessen his powers. But what if Kaname is not Sara's target... if she's going for a product that can be mass producce and affects the entire vampire population, what do you think she has in mind in helping her goals? It seems to me Sara is the type of character who likes to create lots of slaves...maybe she needs more? and she can accomplish this by giving some of her blood to the tablets so whoever drinks it becomes her slaves?

BTW welcome on board sweetsolace! Nice to have you here!

And what an avatar ...

thank you~ yes Kaname looks so sad yet Gorgeous on that pic. my kaname-chama~~

rumland wrote:
All pure bloods have the ability to make anti vampire weapons, when kaname was making them he said he finds that if he mixes a certain part of the pb's body with the molten metal then it is able to create a weapon that kills vampires.

that's false.

ability to wield av weapons was exclusive to the Kuran bloodline.

The sword however I belive might have been created from that first brew of metal he made.

the Kuran sword only appeared during Rido's generation. Before that was only Bloody Rose and Artemis.

Even in the picture where he is nameing them you can see the artimise is rejecting him from seeing the lightning around his hand. I ahve also recently became to belive that the thorns from bloody rose was it trying to reject zero, I think it might be it's defensive ability if a vampire trys to weild. But that is just thery.

the lightning effect when kaname/zero touches an av weapon is normal, it happened on several occasions with yuki, zero and kaname. There doesn't seem to be much significance on this, as in chapter one Kain and Aido both touched the artemis and nothing happened. the lightning effect just appeared when zero saved yuki in the alley and he used artemis.

sweet reread my post, I said they all have the ability to make them, not weild them, and IMO you need a certain blood line to weild them, being the blood line of the heart used to make them, in this case the female vampire anchent who it is possible brought kanames offspring into the world hence carrying her blood down the kuran line. This would explain why only the hunter family lines, the humans who drank her blood in large deadly doeses and the kuran line, possibly her offspring can weild them.

As for the sword, just cause it didn't show it dosen't mean it is not there.

For the lightning, it is possible she decided to add it later, authors do do that some times.

rumland wrote:sweet reread my post, I said they all have the ability to make them, not weild them, and IMO you need a certain blood line to weild them, being the blood line of the heart used to make them, in this case the female vampire anchent who it is possible brought kanames offspring into the world hence carrying her blood down the kuran line. This would explain why only the hunter family lines, the humans who drank her blood in large deadly doeses and the kuran line, possibly her offspring can weild them.

The one that "makes" the av weapons is the FURNACE where the woman dropped her heart and transformed it into a factory of av weapons. Read chapter 64. Kurans for some reason have a way for manipulating their blood into weapons, but not "make" antivampire weapons..so far that's what was revealed.
Therefore, "all have the ability to make them" is false.

As for the sword, just cause it didn't show it dosen't mean it is not there.

you're free to believe it exists before then but evidence shows otherwise.

For the lightning, it is possible she decided to add it later, authors do do that some times.

I do believe that doesn't make it any more relevant. So far with all the appearances of the lightning effect no antivampire weapon was shown to reject a vampire. Or you have probably seen one?

Beautiful avatar, sweetsolace! From what do you have it?

You realy seem to like to twist things around to suit your own meanings, first you missinterpit my first post, now you are ignoreing the info on the first post after the me correcting you. so I will put it all out so you wont missinterpret it this time.

The av weapons are made of metal smelted along with a pb vampires heart, that is what was revealed, if you need page numbers just ask. By taking that any pb vampire can make the weapons if they are willing to give up there heart.

As for the sword I would like the evidence you mentioned showing it wasn't made back then please... This is some thing else you dont seem to understand, a lack of evidence is not evidence, so simply saying that it is not mentioned or shown in the past is not evidence it wasn't there. If you need help understanding this part I can give a few examples for you thru pms, so we dont send the topic to off topic.

As for your relivant talk on the lightning. How is this for relivance, human yuki no sparks, vampire yuki sparks, only defrence, vampire.

Kaname is already a good charecter as it is, I dont see why so many people try to add things to him that he just dosen't need, kaname is already some what like a god in the manga, there is no reason to pump up a god, the only perpose it serves is to lead to disapointment when he cant live up to the hype.

I hope this cleared up the points, if there is some thing you do not under stand in my reasoning please post what it is so I dont waist peoples time posting info they don't need.

sweetsolace wrote: the topic was brought up in this forum and others, something about kaname not having the ability, so the answer is that Kaname is probably the true origin of the av ability..

Oh yes I know the “flying” rumor
… but thus far I don’t think anyone has enough evidences to support the idea that Kaname isn’t capable to hold and use the anti-vampire weapons except from ch.68 but since then we haven’t see Kaname, so no ones knows what exactly happened. On the contrary there are multiple data to support otherwise!
Although I’m not sure for the mechanism yet … is it cuz he used his own flesh and blood for the experiments or cuz he drank from the hooded woman and vice versa, or both (?). The point is that he has an advantage to wield them something other PBs-ancestors lack and that’s why he led the war in the past (another hint for his ability).

sweetsolace wrote: i also think it could be necrosis of some sort... necrosis (for humans) happens blood supply is impeded on that portion of the body, the part loses nutrients and dies off.

Yes exactly what I meant … maybe is not the best term but it gives an idea … we don’t need a doctor to explain the phenomenon with scientific terminology mumbo jumbo … :P:P ROFL

sweetsolace wrote: ah its possible.. but it's been discussed before that Kaname took the tablets before knowing he was going to the Hanadagis so he couldn't have known he was going to need to replenish himself.. also, yuki's 'journey to the past' took days? I thought it was only a day..lol. yuki got a bit of kaname's blood and then sailed through his memories for a day, i think, since kaname changed yuki's clothes and he placed a rose on her as he did, if a few days passed the rose would've withered or something. (ermm what? LOL don't know how long a rose stays fresh?)

Yes you’re right … my bad lol. Everything happened together they fed each other probably on the same day/night. It was ch.61 and its been ages since then !!!!

However I have the feeling not the certainty of course that he knew what’s coming for and that’s why he “prepared” Yuuki for the upcoming. Ruka and Akatsuki observed the Hanadagi’s castle way before … even before the ball and Ouri’s murder by Sara …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-19/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

So he expected a move towards Hanadagi especially after Ouri’s murder >> Sara “stole” Ouri’s PB powers cuz she needed to melt the icy front … I doubt if Kaname didn’t connect the dots …


Anyway the fact that Hino chose to show Kaname taking tablets twice must have a special meaning or Yuuki was too “greedy” and drained my darling XDDDD (just a joke )

sweetsolace wrote: But what if Kaname is not Sara's target... if she's going for a product that can be mass producce and affects the entire vampire population, what do you think she has in mind in helping her goals? It seems to me Sara is the type of character who likes to create lots of slaves...maybe she needs more? and she can accomplish this by giving some of her blood to the tablets so whoever drinks it becomes her slaves?

Mmm I find it quite possible … she said she want an army willing to sacrifice limb from limb for her and she already has prisoners … she is the type capable to create a chaos …
Either way I think all these are the means to gain her goal, but to be a Queen she had to exterminate Kaname and maybe Yuuki (?).

rumland wrote: I said they all have the ability to make them, not weild them
.
.
. … The av weapons are made of metal smelted along with a pb vampires heart, that is what was revealed, if you need page numbers just ask. By taking that any pb vampire can make the weapons if they are willing to give up there heart.

If that was true then why none PB tried to make one thus far? They had centuries ahead to experiment … Don’t tell me that all of them were so pure that couldn’t sacrifice another PB to gain that power! … I think there must be something more …

rumland wrote: IMO you need a certain blood line to weild them, being the blood line of the heart used to make them, in this case the female vampire anchent who it is possible brought kanames offspring into the world hence carrying her blood down the kuran line. This would explain why only the hunter family lines, the humans who drank her blood in large deadly doeses and the kuran line, possibly her offspring can weild them.

It’s not necessary true that the Kuran linage came from hooded woman (although I can’t exclude the probability yet) … Kaname drank from her and vice versa … so as the first hunters did viz drank her blood in order to gain the ability to use the anti-vampire weapons , why not the same mechanism happened in Kaname’s case ? Why she must be the one who appointed the anti-vampire ability? Who knows maybe she took that ability from Kaname through his blood ... she said to kaname "give me your power"!!!!

rumland wrote: Kaname is already a good charecter as it is, I dont see why so many people try to add things to him that he just dosen't need, kaname is already some what like a god in the manga, there is no reason to pump up a god, the only perpose it serves is to lead to disapointment when he cant live up to the hype.

And why you insist Kaname hasn’t the ability to hold and use the anti-VWs since he atleast also did the exact same thing like the hunters did?>>> they all drank from the same ancestor after all!