anti-vampire weapons...

First topic message reminder :

Until now I believed that the anti-vampire weapons are two: the bloody rose and the artemis.
but it seems that there is one more: the sword.
I am talking about the sword that Rido uses to kill baby Kaname (and it has to be anti-vampire to kill a baby vampire) and the sword that Rido again uses against Haruka and Kaname recognizes it (I believe that it is the same sword, cause their shapes are the same but with Hino I can;t be sure for this )
Here the links for the scenes withe sword I am talking about:

http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/62/005/
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/38/18/
http://www.onemanga.com/Vampire_Knight/38/14/

we know already that antivampire weapons were made by Kaname. And that the female ancestor use to have Artemis.
we also know that Artemis and bloody rose can't hurt Kaname (specially the bloody rose) cause they recognize him as their master
So my question is: if Kaname use to have Bloody rose as a weapon and the female anchestor had Artemis, then who had the sword??
Kaname said that the sword belongs to the hunters. but it is still confusing to me.
And another question: whyZero has the bloody rose? who gave it to him???
and why is written above the bloody rose the phrase: CROSSING DANGER???
http://th01.deviantart.com/fs27/300W/i/2008/035/e/7/Bloody_Rose_Gun_by_wOmpy_ness.jpg
Is the bloody rose connected with Cross? I can't think any other explanation why this phrase is there.

juliet! That is soo HUGE! I'm already scared of you just kitting you've done well to highlight your points

and nina...nice points! you're a good observer. :3

ok about Yuki’s path
I'm a bit confused here, as Yuki said she already decided which path to take in Chapter 52

Spoiler:

could this be what Kaname says "i already know the path you will take..?"

The question is … where is Hanadagi’s servant? She is the only one who could inform the hunters about Sara’s involvement … did they take her for interrogation? If not where did she go?

good point... smells like a glitch too. The hunters are normally nitpicking everyone present or related on the scene to get leads on their case, if they wanted evidence they should have found the girl (if she is present/alive).
The last time we saw from her she was wounded from an injury that Sara caused, but she was still alive and Sara did not kill her...I think she fled after she saw her master dead, she had plenty of time for that while Aido and Kaname talked.

… Cross said to Yuuki “he isn’t the same Kaname” … I have the feeling that Cross words and stance was to prevent Yuuki to go after him. Maybe he doesn’t know what exactly Kaname’s original plan is, but he might have a slight idea …

So does Nagamichi. A chapter before he died, he said to Yuki, “someone like you... can you really go against him/ stop him from now on? If you sense something wrong, I want you to reprimand him firmly” He had an idea that suggest Kaname was going to do something wrong, also, ever wonder why he made it his business to “chase” after Sara or know that she was wrong? Even the hunters don’t put her under surveillance means they are not confident enough she’s doing something bad, but Aido seems to have an idea. From what I know everyone thinks Sara is continuing Ouri's charity works.

Spoiler:

If Aido knows something, who told him is the question. When Sara’s car rushed past him, he went after her like she was a criminal... Even went inside the Hanadagi castle. I have a feeling Aido and Kaname discussed a lot more than just what was shown prior to that.

A key point I think is Hanadagi’s past and his special PB ability … why Sara pick him? And it wasn’t an incidental choice cuz she had to kill Ouri in order to be able to pass the icy front of Hanadagi’s castle. Also why Kaname monitor his castle before Sara’s movements?

Maybe the castle has a special seal and can only be unleashed with Ouri power? Or Hanadagi has a special power? Could be. it is also very possible, perhaps hanadagi has special ability..
But Sara said Hanadagi heart will make her more powerful and that was what she wanted, she didn't say anything specific like "I got the power, now I can control the universe" sortofthing , she just said, "i have power now". Doesn’t seem to be so special... maybe. i dont know..hm.
I think it’s fair enough to say that Hanadagi was currently the most potential target for anyone seeking power... He is sleeping alone (as was shown), with one guardian, with a seal that can be trespassed with enough power. Sara was said to be a “weak little girl” and she needed power to get started—Ouri provided this. The next step was to increase her power with barely doing anything... unlike Rido who can wield weapons, she only has her deceit as skill to ensure her success. She went for the most vulnerable pureblood and that was Hanadagi. < Also, from the way Hanadagi referred to Sara as “weak, little girl” seems like he had a good background who she is in terms of prowess...Maybe they know each other in the past? ok, not maybe, but surely...he couldn't just tell her she is weak without knowing her. Also, it didn’t look to me that Hanadagi was a good pureblood, he seems to be at Sara’s level of wickedness, judging from his decision to take Aido’s life. However his guardian described him as not wanting to meddle in political affairs...he's probably neutral.
So 500 years ago before he slept he had met Sara before and knew her.. what happened that time?

Another point … I think that after Ruka’s and Akatsuki’s last report he had decided to kill Hanadagi and Aido-dono, cuz
a) he went there with the anti-vampire sword
b) he said to Yuuki that he will bring more unpleasant feelings to Ruka …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-18/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html
I suppose he was referring to Aidou-dono killing.
So I think it was everything decided in advance …

Yes this is also what i was thinking. weird that Kaname knew he was going to kill someone and brought the Kuran sword with him... Not any other weapon, but the Kuran sword. Probably he had been expecting it. It occurred to me the moment he stabbed Hanadagi was only when Aido was threatened to become a refreshment....that’s when kaname “tapped” his shoulder and stepped in. Like he had been watching the whole time. Of course it can be a coincidence too.
Also add Aido’s words to Yuki: “someone like you... can you really go against him/ stop him from now on? If you sense something wrong, I want you to reprimand him firmly” –he does sense something wrong with Kaname too. LOL characters should stop being cryptic already

“The decision I had taken in my first period of despair …” his plan is the same he had as ancestor, but for an unknown for us reason he felt despaired and went into slumber. But now he has motive again … he has Yuuki.
7. Contradictions …

juliet wrote:(my premonition LOL that the current nightclass will lead in the future the vampire society as the new council)....
It's almost the same desire with Haruka's father who abolished the monacrhy;

The grandfather's ideology as stated in the fanbook;
The kurans became the royal family, and they had full authority over everything.
The head of the Kuran familly two generations ago, (Haruka Kuran's father) did not want this. He summoned the Senate to make them govern vampire society instead.
The Senate was supposed to be a governing body where many vampires would discuss and decide matters peacefully rather than have the purebloods with absolute power rule by force. However, the organization is now a cruel institution that uses any method necessary to rule vampire society.

About Kaname's hesitation;
When Kaname visits the Senate he declares his intentions to change the way the vampire society is ruled by now - I believe that either Senate or Monarchy, Kaname goes against blind authority....

So his actions are set in this direction...

What keeps him back from fulfilling his plan? It seems to be the same with his motive to fulfill it...

Yuuki...

Kaname went to sleep “with no intention of waking up”... however Rido as his “mirror” said “he was waiting for something and it will never return, and that he hasn’t the slightest hope left”...
ch60

Spoiler:

but Kaname was awakened... And now I think the decision he took when he despaired was his original plan, and he said he had hesitations but now he has finally decided.

Now apparently Kaname wanted to fullfil his plan...but priority was given to Yuuki as Rido's intervasion messes up all of their lives...and Kaname does whatever is possible to move in all directions...

Co-existence: Establishes Cross academy and cooperates with the hunters, to deteriorate the council's (Asato's original plans that resurected Rido to rule) influence on the academy...

Yuuki: Inevitably he has to change her back or she would go crazy. As she wants to remember of her past, the spell is breaking, Rido emerges, he is left with no options...

Elimination of the council and power restored; He kills the council, when he visits it as the scans show he is declaring his intentions to make his original plan come true this time;

his main concern no more bees that follow the Queen no matter what

Killing the senate was the first step to this (he says to the council before killing them, 'and you're going to be the first ones'), so this gives insight what he’s planning... his “original plan”. He also gives hint to what he plans through his words to Aido, “Who said purebloods can’t be harmed? Without purebloods you’re like bees without a queen...”
Juliet you're right there Kaname had plans to change vampire society, and I think he had been meaning to ever since he went to sleep. That "something" I believe Rido was referring to could be the "hope" that he wished to see would happen with the society, however little... When Kaname woke up again in such cruel circumstances, this didn't really help form his decision that society had changed... But then, Yuki was born and Kaname said, "I'm determined to protect this warmth from now on".
It's like both of you said, Yuki was one of his hesitations to carry out his original plan...but I think it's not the only one. His hesitations to carry this out must mean it is a terrible plan, somewhat, a big catastrophic plan that will mean no return, but Kaname is also hindered in part to carry this out.
Kaname has circumstances when he was reborn again in a new body...the limitations he had to manipulate to put on his favor... The fact Rido was his master required him to use Zero to kill him...actually I think he just found Zero's usefulness and brought it to the surface, but I don't think he planned to kill Rido until he found out he became troublesome and charged the academy, threatening to eat Yuki.
At that point, the corruption of the Senate was laid in full view to Kaname--Asato told him his wishes to get rid of Kaname so he could place Rido on his position...to put the senate in control of everything again, probably some kind of monarchy only with senate leading.
ch38

Spoiler:

Kaname wanted to kill him but Takuma intervened.. then Kaname went to take out the council. Thoughts of Yuki didn't hinder Kaname from accomplishing this, Kaname said, "Sorry Yuki..I'm not a kind and gentle vampire at all"
This is why I think Yuki is just part of his hesitation, but it's not enough to hinder him from doing what needs to be done. Kaname apologizes in a similar manner after killing Aido and Hanadagi, "Sorry Yuki. goodbye.."

Kaname has hesitated for numerous reasons, because as Rido pointed out he had almost lost hope means he still had remaining left, that's why he waited for someone to wake him up eventhough he had no intention to (his contradictions). His original plan is probably something massive, instant or armageddon-like. And he didn't want it to happen not only for Yuki's sake as his beloved but for the others he trusted or for the society he once ruled... Maybe it's Kaname's hidden power, but there's something sure, he is not hesitating now.

Kaname said he went to the academy to return a favor and also it served as a place to get what he wants
ch19

Spoiler:

return a favor- for kaien and juri, coexistence?
what he wants- yuki's protection, someone to kill rido (zero)
the pieces played into his hands perfectly and after that was over, Kaname placed yuki inside the mansion to continue teaching her the ways of a pureblood like Nina and Juliet pointed out, while he is trying to fix vampire society. Kaname said that coexistence won't happen over night,
ch53

Spoiler:

it needs time...Still bad things happen one after another, Sara creates additional trouble and Touma attacks Yuki. I think Kaname got fed up and his hesitation grew thinner replaced by certainty. Now he is actively moving.

They agree to start over again...for Kaname it means more than it means to Yuuki because from now on they will move into new roles...all of Yuuki's believes will be challenged, she is going to meet Kaname from the start
He also says the world he lives in is different from how she sees it

yes... definitely challenged. kaname already tells her that the way she views the world is different from the way he sees it. Kaname has suffered centuries of despair and contradiction, while Yuki grew up pampered and loved knowing simplistic views and justice. That will surely be tried.

Thank you juliet … I’m glad I made sense and thanx for filing the gaps.

“I thought this time I want to keep protecting this warmth”

juliet wrote: Now of course, how Kaname remembers the warmth of her eyes by seeing Yuuki only through a "premonition" and this gives him a new meaning in his current life is a whole new debate/discussion.

It could be just because Yuuki gives a feeling of sunshine as Isaya said, BUT I agree … share the same feeling, it might be a connection from the past, not only the “premonition” he had when was talking to Yuuki and named the weapon Artemis! Open a new thread to discus it!

juliet wrote: Now apparently Kaname wanted to fullfil his plan...but priority was given to Yuuki as Rido's intervasion messes up all of their lives...and Kaname does whatever is possible to move in all directions...

Now … to connect it with the above … when Yuuki born Kaname was still a child. I believe around that age he started to remember his past >>> in the scene where he’s visiting Hanabusa to apologize he is touching the sand and says … nostalgic and then touches his head … (I couldn’t find the pic T_T) but I think there he had glimpses from his past. I’m trying to say that he was also vulnerable at the time … so both of them had to gain time for the upcoming threat!

juliet wrote: his main concern no more bees that follow the Queen no matter what

I remember the first time he referred to the Queen bee was to Cross when the NC was about to open … he said … “don’t worry I’ll play the Queen …” with not so much pleasure … Here …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2108-21/vampire-knight/chapter-12.html

So I suppose he was reluctant to play this role from the very beginning but for Yuuki’s sake he did it.

juliet wrote: Kaname last actions lead to his own erase from the powers and open the way for a new authority to arrive not bonded with fear but with trust; (my premonition LOL that the current nightclass will lead in the future the vampire society as the new council)....
It's almost the same desire with Haruka's father who abolished the monacrhy;
.
.
.
I believe that either Senate or Monarchy, Kaname goes against blind authority....
So his actions are set in this direction...

I’ll second that !!!!!! Kaname seems to discard the fundamental element in vampires society structure which is the power=fear and superiority of the PBs. Besides this superiority was the reason for the war … he knows better than anyone how much disastrous is!

juliet wrote: What keeps him back from fulfilling his plan? It seems to be the same with his motive to fulfill it...

Yuuki...

During the one year that Yuuki was learning the vampire society and was making progress in adapting herself to all changes, Kaname enjoys his time with her, I even think that he had decided to postpone his plan (or cancel it) since he had discovered hapiness...

You know this is a part I love in Kaname … the moments of his weaknesses … his contradictions!
He knew in his mind that he had to wait for the right time to turn Yuuki but during that time we saw his struggle … he was the one allowed Yuuki’s and Zero’s closeness but most of the times was full of jealousy etc ect. Something similar I guess happened to him during that year … he finally held in his arms his beloved girl …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-33/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-34/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html

… and hesitation started to grow inside him. I believe that deep down he knew that their time was running out but … his “human” side took over him! This is my interpretation. (You know we’re way far off topic … ROFL )

juliet wrote: Now this was my interpretation of events, you are welcome to add another or to debate any points made or add to this with any more theories...

No you covered all the bases! (^o^)

rumland wrote: This is a long shot, however give it a little thought. Hanadagi had been asleep for 100's of years, kaname as been awake from his eternal slumber for about 20-25 at the most. So he should know nothing about kaname, however if he is the head of a pb family and sleeps for a millinum at a time it is possible he is an ancester. If that is the case he might know kaname from before and kaname might have killed him so no one would find out the truth. Only a few people know that kaname is an ancester.

You’re right … Hanadagi was one of the ancestors and he was in slumber when Rido brought back Kaname so in this time life they couldn’t meet. It’s possible they’re old acquaintances … or old enemies since Hanadagi clan was “protectors of the PBs” according to his servant’s words.

However I’m not convinced that Kaname’s motive is to cover up he is an ancestor. That info sure is unknown for the majority but still there were people who knew about it … Asato, Takuma and now Sara … I mean it could be others too. And why that could be a motive? I’m not rejecting the idea; just wonder … how could his past harm his plan?

rumland wrote: He might have killed him to stop the other pbs from finding out, other wise they might all unite against kaname. I mean he was one of the ones heading the war against the pb's in the first pb war. I think kaname wants every one thinking he is just a yound 20-25 year old pb instead of a 10,000 year old pb ancester. People are more likly to ignore and or underestamate him this way.

Not against all PBs but against the ones who turned human into slaves … We assume he or later (?) the Kurans (descendants) won that war and that’s why they became rulers.
So far I figured that the camps were:
Kaname+PBs (who didn’t want to turn humans … how many we don’t know) + hunters >>> against PBs+their slaves.

Maybe if his past exposed he could be a target but how much more? I mean he is already a target cuz he is a Kuran, what difference does it make? I don’t know … why need more information …

But Sara could target Hanadagi cuz he was an ancestor … well among other reasons of course.

rumland wrote: So what you guys think? I will have to look back at the chapter but is it possible that Hanadagi said or hinted that kaname was a ancester dureing there fight, if he did there is a reason for kaname to kill aideo's dad, he found out some thing he shouldn't have.

Well Hanadagi didn’t have the chance to say anything … Kaname killed him on the spot …
He wakes up Aidou from his hypnosis …
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/29

Then in a blink of an eye he stabs Hanadagi …
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/30
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/31

Aidou-dono it might know something more but even if he knew I doubt if this alone could be enough reason to kill him cuz:
1. He consented on his extermination/sacrifice(?)

2. He could keep it as a secret … Aidou’s family was loyal to Kurans, except if something happened that we don’t know yet and he became a traitor !(?). Seems like there is a gap … Kaname said something to him (?) … he was surprised at first and then he gave his consent.

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/33 … “I’ll tell you something...”

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/34 … surprise and consent …


The only contention/debate we know thus far between Kaname and Aidou dono is the sanctity of the PBs …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/32

BUT this alone it doesn’t seem enough reason to kill him since he couldn’t stop Kaname even if he wanted. Also isn’t something new … Aidou had expressed his “opposition” about the senate’s extermination but Kaname didn’t bother.

I don't know ... Aidou's case puzzles me ... there is a lot we don't know yet to conclude ...

Hey nina ty for the links, I will give you + rep as soon as I am able, rereading that realy cleared a few things up for me and made me consider a new option kaname might take.

Kaname and zero seem to have more and more in common as things are revealed. Zero wants to kill all the pb's (excludeing yuki that is, he says he wants to kill her but I don't belive it), well anyways after kanames talk with aido's dad I think kaname has the same intent in mind now, he just wants to put it all to an end and only way to do that is to kill the ones that twist fate, aka the pb's, excludeing yuki again.

So I predict in the next 2 or 3 chapters we are going to have a dead pb presented to us. But again this is just a thery and if aido's dad is the protecter of the pb's then that would give kaname a reason to kill him, kaname let his plan slip in there conversation.

With yuki being with the hunters kaname wont have to worry about the other pb aiming at her or taking her as a hostage if he starts to kill them. But if this is the case kaname would have to kill all the pb's and I am not sure if he would actualy do that yet.

LoL if this pans out then kaname and zero might get together and make a new club, "Death to all PB's, excludeing yuki club) Kaname things I will kill you to after I have no further use for you zero, and zero thinks, your on this list to kaname. :lol:

Ha, ha, so many points and so good points that I am having problems to keep up..I do not know what to answer first, and what last but I will try in order not to miss anything, here it goes…

http://www.mangarush.com/files/mangas/vampire-knight/52/35.jpg
I think in this page, Yuuki finally decides to accept her nature, herself and apparently all the obligations and roles that go with it. She has decided to walk the same path as Kaname…

as Aidou says to Zero when he is captive at the HA; Yuuki is doing her best to follow the same path with Kaname.

Later on, that path leads her to the role of the peacemaker and the guardian of humans lives…

Kaname recognizes that this is the path that she shall follow in general in her life, despite not wanting that for her, despite not wanting that for himself either (not after he has lived happily to her side and his hopes are small that this society will ever change) he lives to fulfill his plan.

So does Nagamichi. A chapter before he died, he said to Yuki, “someone like you... can you really go against him/ stop him from now on? ” He had an idea that suggest Kaname was going to do something wrong, also, ever wonder why he made it his business to “chase” after Sara or know that she was wrong?

Very, very good observation that leads my thoughts further…, Aido’s dad is speaking like he already knows what Kaname is going to do…I agree that there is more in this discussion that we have not seen. Also, could it be that Aidou’s dad is aware of Kaname’s plan…?

Right now Yuuki is the representative (or is holding this place ) of the agreement sealed between Kaname and the hunters. In reality, her position now stands opposite to Kaname.

If Kaname goes on killing and hurting or pulls a plan that stirs all the vampire society, Yuuki’s official role gives her the right to go against him, find him, and stop him. (Not to mention that this gives her a legal excuse to the hunters, in order to chase him…).

So, it’s like Aidou’s dad refers to that fact. How is she going to stop him? Such a little existence, how is she going to stand against a powerful pureblood?

Why to stand against? Or to stop him? Does he know what Kaname is up to? Why is he following Sara, just because he accidently saw the car passing by?

As you Solace so I am having the same unexplained questions here.

The only thing that I can think of is that he knows Kaname’s plan and he knows that according to that plan, Yuuki is going to place herself opposite to Kaname. Theferore he expresses his own worries and also hints her about the future and advises her not to quit.

When he sees Sara’s car, Aido’s dad rushes to prevent a bad think happening. I think that he knows from Kaname who is watching over Hanadagi’s castle that Hanadagi will to be Sara’s next target. He goes there but he is unable to change a pureblood’s thinking.

As Solace said Kaname is like observing the whole attack, because he wants to take advantage of all that and kill Hanadagi when the time seems right. Allowing Sara to get away with the ancestor’s powers and going unseen, is something that is left to be explained.

About Aido’s dad, he is very respectful towards the purebloods. Yet, his family’s perceptions stand in the side of the monarch and so are the kids, Ruka, Kain, Aidou who are all related.

During Asato’s council, Aidou fanction opposes to Asato.
As stated in the fanbook…
The Senate is divided into two fanctions-one that supports the Senate, and one that wants to return to monarchy. The Ichijo family, the longest-serving members of the Senate, and the Shiki family are presentatives of the pro-senate faction. The Aido family is anti-Senate.

Aidou’s relations and support to the Kurans runs deep, therefore one can realize the extension of the shock that the pureblood society must have experienced, not so much with Hanadagi’s death (here the shock is about the sanctity that concerns the purebloods) but Aidou’s murder;
This is a true reason that Kaname can be characterized “bersek”, “dangerous to his own people”, “untrusted” and make all the vampire society to lose its faith to him. He is causing that intentionally I believe, he erases his own power, in a way he erases another pureblood that can be seen and followed by fear, the “Queen” as Nina said. He does not want that role anymore, perhaps in order to fulfill his plans that role may not be convenient anymore.

Now he opens the way for Yuuki and the night class to substitute him in power and bring a new form of power to rule vampire society that involves true feelings and bonds and not blind faith and fear. Kaname wishes for a thinking vampire society.

This is certainly a part, that Aidou’s murder could serve along with other points that we may not know. But even that does not justify Aidou’s dad murder, especially infront of the eyes of Yuuki and Aido since he risks their love and trust.

I still find difficult believing and justifying with the current notion.

Unless the crime is predetermined as the two men seem to talk. So, this is an agreed murder. I have the idea (crazy I know) that there is no murder. Aidou’s dad seems to notice that the weapon that Kaname holds hurts him and that Kaname cannot wield it or it is hurting him that much.
In that moment, Kaname shares something to him. Can it be that he is affected by the tablets and he needs to act now? or that he needs an excuse to pass to the opposite side and he also needs to do it now since it’s also his golden opportunity to promote Yuuki’s role in this society?
He can sense that Yuuki is coming, the same way Yuuki sensed his presence in Hanadagi’s castle so he can definitely determine that Yuuki is coming.
So can it be a fake murder? It’s a very long shot, perhaps there are more underlying there that we can’t know. But that’s the best explanation I can think of now.

Okay, it just struck me…idea bolt flashed….”Protectors of the Pureblood”…

Kaname doubts the sanctity of the purebloods….

Therefore Hanadagi, is a straight opponent who apparently, if he lived he would oppose to the purebloods killing, even the ones who clearly do not deserve having a life, protecting their existences.
So, Kaname takes him out, when the chance appears. He is taking advantage of Sara’s attack at the castle to kill him as he had done with Zero huring Shizuka.
Totally the reversed procedure followed but it is just the same. It seems that Kaname does not want to miss the chance to kill Hanadagi on the spot, now that he is more vulnerable and he knew that Sara would open for him the way to strike.

@ kaname’s despair…
Solace, yes, yes, yes, very good job there…another parameter in Kaname’s despair is that he has almost lost hope that this vampire society is going to change.
Therefore, his efforts to maintain and to regulate peace, after Yuuki is saved, seem to be enough. The scan where he talks to the hunters and says that way is long is the key.
There is the long way, the peaceful way, the right way, in which he is situated now (meaning according to the scan), and profoundly has decided to postpone his own initial plan (after founding happiness next to Yuuki) that is as you say drastic and violent meant to shake the vampire society and he does not want to hurt others.
But the circumstances along with Yuuki’s decision to emerge in this society, a society that has not changed, no matter the sacrifices and the years that have passed, brings him in the position to decide, that it’s time to put his own plan into action.
No matter the cost and the risk he is taking, he also wishes no more sacrifices for the ones he loves, so he sets out...with the hope (I believe) that this time he shall manage to make a safe world for all and Yuuki of course, with ways other than the way of patience and hope and good ways, because history told him that these ways brought nothing more than misery, despair, death, sacrifices. I tend to believe that now he wants the shurcut way, he is in a hurry to protect the ones he loves.

Therefore, this time he does not hesitate any longer to realize his own plans in order to achieve faster what so many centuries of wars and fights with so many innoncent dead, did not achieve.

I think that this is his thinking. I believe that he intends to sacrifice himself this time after the completion of his plan and I think that the one who is going to do it (he thinks) is going to be Yuuki because he granted her that role along with the role to regulate the vampire society and to keep the peace and this is going to inevitably bring them in opposition. This is what I think.
So it’s now in Yuuki’s hands to stop him…

Also here is what I found;
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/552%2F65_PDQFL%2F35-LBKJP.jpg
in the fanbook: The crime of killing purebloods is the vampire’s society greatest offense.
So I think that after all Aidou’s dad referred to killing purebloods.

@ Nina, about Yuki's theories in kaname's past we had made this thread, if any theory comes and you want to add someting,
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t11p20-the-ancestor-theories

Thank you sweetsolace!

sweetsolace wrote: ok about Yuki’s path
I'm a bit confused here, as Yuki said she already decided which path to take in Chapter 52 ….

could this be what Kaname says "i already know the path you will take..?"

My interpretation is that at that time Yuuki meant she is ready to walk the path as a PB … to make her debut in vampire society, side by side with Kaname. I’m not sure but I think she had in mind all the difficulties she faced during the past year to “accept” her true nature … refusal to use her fangs etc etc.

Now about Kaname … I think when he says “ I already know the path you’ll take” he’s referring to her kind nature to her good heart … she always like to help others … she was willing to sacrifice her human-nature in order to help Zero without betray Kaname … she wanted to help the Day class etc. That’s why he connects that phrase with the moment she held his hand for the first time … he knew her and he was afraid that she might throw herself into a futile cause.

He had already give to her Artemis … I don’t think it was to test her intentions (cuz he chuckles when she hits his bats-shield, as he expected something like that from her) but mostly to give her a lesson of the threats that could lurk … as he said to Touma … to taste a medicine cuz she was so ignorant and naïve …

So the “punishment” was only an excuse for what it followed … cuz he already made up his mind about the next step of his plan.

sweetsolace wrote: o does Nagamichi. A chapter before he died, he said to Yuki, “someone like you... can you really go against him/ stop him from now on? If you sense something wrong, I want you to reprimand him firmly” He had an idea that suggest Kaname was going to do something wrong, also, ever wonder why he made it his business to “chase” after Sara or know that she was wrong? Even the hunters don’t put her under surveillance means they are not confident enough she’s doing something bad, but Aido seems to have an idea. From what I know everyone thinks Sara is continuing Ouri's charity works.

Good point … but what exactly knows?
My impression was that he knows Kaname is planning something … something that will create ripples (at least lol) and he is against it. That’s why said to Yuuki if she is capable to stop him.
I have the feeling that what bothers Kaname the most was his statement about the most sinful crime in the history of the PBs.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-57815-35/vampire-knight/chapter-65.html

Kaname’s look is … O.o
Could this reference “exposed” Nagamichi somehow????
The sanctity of the PBs was always a matter of debate between the two men, but thus far I thought he was too “respectful” towards the PBs but I can imagine how this stance of his could lead him to death!(?)

Kaname seems to be more revolutionist and Naga more conservative but still …
I think he couldn’t stop Kaname even if he wanted he wouldn’t dare.

As you said it might they discussed further more and we don’t know about it! I wonder how many flashbacks we should see …!!!

sweetsolace wrote: If Aido knows something, who told him is the question. When Sara’s car rushed past him, he went after her like she was a criminal... Even went inside the Hanadagi castle. I have a feeling Aido and Kaname discussed a lot more than just what was shown prior to that.

Another good point … why he followed Sara? He supposed to know only that she is “naughty” lately and nothing more … so it was that enough reason to follow her?
And Sara wasn’t surprised at all from his presence. But there again tried to persuade Sara not to disturb Hanadagi >>> again the sanctity of the PBs.


rumland you’re welcomed. I’m gland if I helped. ^^

rumland wrote: Kaname and zero seem to have more and more in common as things are revealed. Zero wants to kill all the pb's (excludeing yuki that is, he says he wants to kill her but I don't belive it), well anyways after kanames talk with aido's dad I think kaname has the same intent in mind now, he just wants to put it all to an end and only way to do that is to kill the ones that twist fate, aka the pb's, excludeing yuki again.

So I predict in the next 2 or 3 chapters we are going to have a dead pb presented to us. But again this is just a thery and if aido's dad is the protecter of the pb's then that would give kaname a reason to kill him, kaname let his plan slip in there conversation.

Yes partly I agree … Zero and Kaname have a common base of how they view PBs but it might be a difference there and I’ll try to explain my self.
Zero hates all the PBs even Yuuki not literally but he hates her nature. Thus far he couldn’t make any distinguish between good and bad PB not so unjustified but still…
Anyway … for Kaname I’m not sure yet cuz I’d like to see how far he his determinate to go with his plan. I do not believe he is willing to kill all the PBs cuz there lurks injustice … I mean Isaya for example seems to be a peaceful PB, why he should be sacrificed?

About Aidou-dono: He respects too much the superiority of the PBs … for him I suppose is like holy creatures who no one should touch them … he can’t distinguish the goods from the bads, the opposite to Zero’s view I guess. But he was always on the side of the Kurans >>> he shared the same ideology … not turning humans into vampires and that’s why he was anti-senate. The senate wanted to use the power of the PBs so they weren’t against of turning the humans. We could say they didn’t respect the sanctity of the PBs or they seemed to respect them only in the surface to be able to manipulate them.

rumland wrote: LoL if this pans out then kaname and zero might get together and make a new club, "Death to all PB's, excludeing yuki club) Kaname things I will kill you to after I have no further use for you zero, and zero thinks, your on this list to kaname.

Ha ha yes … especially when it comes to Yuuki they are two hotheaded men!


Juliet I agree with most of the parts of your post (as you’ll see we’re using the same words lol!)

My only reservation is about Kaname’s intentions to short cut the road for the coexistence goal. What you’re saying … he is willing to kill/sacrifice even a peaceful PB like Isaya ????

Yes I agree he doesn’t care to disturb the hypocritical balance in vampire’s society and kill some PBs in the process but all of them?

juliet wrote: I think that this is his thinking. I believe that he intends to sacrifice himself this time after the completion of his plan

Noooooo I'll cry rivers ...

juliet wrote:@ Nina, about Yuki's theories in kaname's past we had made this thread, if any theory comes and you want to add someting,
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t11p20-the-ancestor-theories

Thank you I'll check it out!

nina wrote:

Juliet I agree with most of the parts of your post (as you’ll see we’re using the same words lol!)

My only reservation is about Kaname’s intentions to short cut the road for the coexistence goal. What you’re saying … he is willing to kill/sacrifice even a peaceful PB like Isaya ????

Yes I agree he doesn’t care to disturb the hypocritical balance in vampire’s society and kill some PBs in the process but all of them?

Νο, not at all..but you see as he told to the hunters the two societies have a long way to go...

Does it seem now that he is taking the long way? No, he left this way behind, according to my opinion, deciding to go drastic. So instead of waiting the natural flow of things (and perhpas losing someone loved on the way again), he decides that it is time for this society to change ways even by more forceful ways or a plan that will shake it.
So he acts before the events, that's what I think. His prior despair about the vampire's condition might have led him in this kind of thinking, because he saw no change, therefore he needs to act.
I do not know his plan, I try in overall to estimate what and how he will act from futher on. I think that his plan is not to harm innoncents but totally the reverse to protect them before hand.

With the council and it's ways (while the road for co-existence was still long) too many innoncent lives were lost; Yuuki's little brother, Yuuri, Haruka, Zero's parents...

Prior to that we saw the ancestor's death...sacrificing herself for a "lost"
cause as he called it in the biting scene. So while he is supporting Yuuki and the long way to prosperity, I believe he does not believe in it...

because on that long way too many people were used and sacrificed over nothing...

so he initiates his original plan that we are left to see...

These are my thoughts...for now.
What he had been thinking about...that he should have acted first...

Ok I get it ... as long as innocents aren't sacrificed in the process I'm a revolutionary type my self lol.

nina wrote: in the scene where he’s visiting Hanabusa to apologize he is touching the sand and says … nostalgic and then touches his head … (I couldn’t find the pic T_T) but I think there he had glimpses from his past.

here http://www.ourmanga.com/manga/Vampire_Knight/Chapter-48/09.jpg

juliet wrote:Right now Yuuki is the representative (or is holding this place ) of the agreement sealed between Kaname and the hunters. In reality, her position now stands opposite to Kaname.

If Kaname goes on killing and hurting or pulls a plan that stirs all the vampire society, Yuuki’s official role gives her the right to go against him, find him, and stop him. (Not to mention that this gives her a legal excuse to the hunters, in order to chase him…).

The only thing that I can think of is that he knows Kaname’s plan and he knows that according to that plan, Yuuki is going to place herself opposite to Kaname. Theferore he expresses his own worries and also hints her about the future and advises her not to quit.

Yes yes... im thinking the possibility for this is also quite high. Yuki wants to give leadership through collaboration with the races, while Kaname threatens to wipe out vampire society in order to start on a clean slate (assuming thats what he plans). Yuki’s way is definitely long term as Kaname already said (coexistence will be long term), while Kaname is short-term/instant. I think in this way their plans will clash. And in this way, Aido’s premonition that Yuki thinks something is wrong and she will have to stop Kaname.

juliet wrote:Therefore Hanadagi, is a straight opponent who apparently, if he lived he would oppose to the purebloods killing, even the ones who clearly do not deserve having a life, protecting their existences.
So, Kaname takes him out, when the chance appears. He is taking advantage of Sara’s attack at the castle to kill him as he had done with Zero huring Shizuka.
Totally the reversed procedure followed but it is just the same. It seems that Kaname does not want to miss the chance to kill Hanadagi on the spot, now that he is more vulnerable and he knew that Sara would open for him the way to strike.

Ahhhh so good Juliet.. You are right there... i’ve never thought of that before. Makes soo much sense, haha brilliant. Here’s a thinking bulb you might need in case you have another idea splash :bom:
At the same time this idea of killing the protector somewhat puts kaname against or at the level of Yuki’s grimreaper service... she set up that work so she can kill purebloods who are lonely and killing innocent people to entertain themselves... while kaname will kill purebloods because they make vampires dependent on them despite also acting like badass villains in the story. The action is the same, but i think it’s clear that it’s Yuki’s way that is more passive and non-violent in terms of consent.

juliet wrote:Also here is what I found;
http://s1-c.animea-server.net/552%2F65_PDQFL%2F35-LBKJP.jpg
in the fanbook: The crime of killing purebloods is the vampire’s society greatest offense.
So I think that after all Aidou’s dad referred to killing purebloods.

And this happened before Shizuka went missing? I think this was before she killed the Kiryuus parents... because after that she and ichiru fled to hide and went missing...then reappear later on at the academy.
So the pureblood who died so far that time was Haruka and Juri.

juliet wrote:I think that this is his thinking. I believe that he intends to sacrifice himself this time after the completion of his plan

While that is possible, Kaname also told Yuki that he would come back to fulfill her wishes. He couldn’t be bluffing to her that time...also there’s the rose resin he said he would take her to see it after it blooms every 10 years.

nina wrote:My interpretation is that at that time Yuuki meant she is ready to walk the path as a PB … to make her debut in vampire society, side by side with Kaname. I’m not sure but I think she had in mind all the difficulties she faced during the past year to “accept” her true nature … refusal to use her fangs etc etc.

Now about Kaname … I think when he says “ I already know the path you’ll take” he’s referring to her kind nature to her good heart … she always like to help others … she was willing to sacrifice her human-nature in order to help Zero without betray Kaname … she wanted to help the Day class etc. That’s why he connects that phrase with the moment she held his hand for the first time … he knew her and he was afraid that she might throw herself into a futile cause.

Ah yes thanks, it did get a bit hazy there. The path where yuki wanted to take and the path Kaname knew she will take base on her nature to be kind..

ah there's another discussion about antivampire weapons im posting the link.
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t140-anti-vampire-weapons

I think you are missing a few weapons, there are others anti vampire weapons, the one the female hunter used at the ball to wound the pb before sara feed on him, crosses sword, I am sure there is a lot more but those are the only ones that are comeing to mind.

Kaname can control the weapons like Juliet said but, he can still get hurt by them, like when Yuki hits Kaname's hand with the Artemis rod there is a reaction, so he might have got a little scratch there XD, and also Zero shot Kaname in the head with the bloody rose and he was bleeding.

Also the quote where he says "Kill me with Artemis" or something like that, so he can still get hurt.

heeyy guys just in case you know:juri and yuki have the ability to yield an anti-vampire weapon.but does kaname has it to??cause in the chapter where he kills hanadagi,it seems like the sword ''burned'' his hand(when he met with ruka and akatsuki and ruka said to release the sword)..and why ruka followed him after he killed her uncle??it doesnt make sense...

That is a point of arguement right now, some people say kaname does not have the ability (I am one of them) and others say he does.

RavenBlack wrote:heeyy guys just in case you know:juri and yuki have the ability to yield an anti-vampire weapon.but does kaname has it to??cause in the chapter where he kills hanadagi,it seems like the sword ''burned'' his hand(when he met with ruka and akatsuki and ruka said to release the sword)..and why ruka followed him after he killed her uncle??it doesnt make sense...

rumland wrote:That is a point of arguement right now, some people say kaname does not have the ability (I am one of them) and others say he does.

How can it be a question? see that's why I do not want to post scans in spoilers, nobody looks at the scans...
I repost


[/spoiler]




[/spoiler]

What do we see here? Kaname in a younger age holding the anti-vampire blade that Rido had brought (so Rido had also the anti-vampire power) in order to kill and it killed Haruka...

But even in the past Kaname used his own parts in the metal soup and reached the conclusion that "what can kill us is ourself" so originally he has that power and again he was supposed to go and sacrifice himself in the position of the woman to make anti-vampire weapons and the hunters. So I do not think that this is a question..the real question is
Why his hand was fried or electroshocked at Hanadagi's murder sunce he definetely has the power as prooven in the scans and by his past?

juliet the picture you posted shows lightning effects, lightning effects = rejection, kaname can use it however he gets injured by the lightning when he does. That is why I say he is not able to weild av weapons(weilding and useing are 2 defrent things, to weild it you need to have no side effects). At first yuki wasn't able to ether, she keep getting the lightning, then her ability to weild it awoke and the lightning went away. The lightning is a sign of rejection, and as we have seen necently if held for to long it can cause bad damage. So I stand by me opion kaname can not weild av weapons, he can use them, but at a price (being injured).

RavenBlack wrote:heeyy guys just in case you know:juri and yuki have the ability to yield an anti-vampire weapon.but does kaname has it to??cause in the chapter where he kills hanadagi,it seems like the sword ''burned'' his hand(when he met with ruka and akatsuki and ruka said to release the sword)..and why ruka followed him after he killed her uncle??it doesnt make sense...

juliet wrote:
Kaname in a younger age holding the anti-vampire blade that Rido had brought (so Rido had also the anti-vampire power) in order to kill and it killed Haruka...
But even in the past Kaname used his own parts in the metal soup and reached the conclusion that "what can kill us is ourself" so originally he has that power and again he was supposed to go and sacrifice himself in the position of the woman to make anti-vampire weapons and the hunters. So I do not think that this is a question..the real question is
Why his hand was fried or electroshocked at Hanadagi's murder sunce he definetely has the power as prooven in the scans and by his past?

juliet that's the shortest and effective way to explain it..
this was also discussed before here:
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t522-anti-vampire-weapons

i do believe the appearance of kaname's hand (shriveled, black) has something to do with antivampire weapons in that it consumes blood when it kills someone... this is still a developing theory though

and Ravenblack, juri was never seen to use an antivampire weapon.

rumland wrote:juliet the picture you posted shows lightning effects, lightning effects = rejection, kaname can use it however he gets injured by the lightning when he does. That is why I say he is not able to weild av weapons(weilding and useing are 2 defrent things, to weild it you need to have no side effects). At first yuki wasn't able to ether, she keep getting the lightning, then her ability to weild it awoke and the lightning went away. The lightning is a sign of rejection, and as we have seen necently if held for to long it can cause bad damage. So I stand by me opion kaname can not weild av weapons, he can use them, but at a price (being injured).

oh, and who/what concluded that "The lightning is a sign of rejection"? it didn't reject kaname despite that, he was still holding it. If a weapon "rejects" someone, it won't let it be used by that person it rejected. Its like inserting an atm card with no balance and the machine spits it out again because it has no cash, that's rejection.

You dont think his hand being burned pitch black is a sign of rejection? Realy?
Excludeing the earlyist of chapters all the vampires that have touched the artimist have caused the lightning effect, this includes zero and kaname as well as yuki when she first turned. Prior vampire yuki no lightning, vampire yuki lightning, which hurt her, then after words the lightning stops with her and se is able to use it.
Think of the lightning as a eltric fence, it is there to reject entry, now just cause it is eltrified dosen't mean it cant be climbed, you just have to be able to bare the pain, we know the lightning cause pain from yuki grabbing it after turning.
Now as far as the manga has shown the only thing that happens when the artimis is touched by the a vampire is the lightning, so it is common sence to assume that is the rejection feature.

sweetsolace wrote:

RavenBlack wrote:heeyy guys just in case you know:juri and yuki have the ability to yield an anti-vampire weapon.but does kaname has it to??cause in the chapter where he kills hanadagi,it seems like the sword ''burned'' his hand(when he met with ruka and akatsuki and ruka said to release the sword)..and why ruka followed him after he killed her uncle??it doesnt make sense...

and Ravenblack, juri was never seen to use an antivampire weapon.

The only vampires we know by far that can use anti - vampire weapons are all from the Kuran family or Zero .

The ones that the story proves as sure are :

1- Yuuki .
She handed Artemis even as a human . When she returned to pureblood vampire , she had a short period of Artemis rejecting her . Then the weapon accepted her without any side effect .

2 - Rido
He uses an anti - vampire sword to kill both Haruka and with the original brother of Yuuki ( baby Kaname ) . No side effect seen during both scenes .

3 - Juuri
She has the previous owner of Artemis . She used it without any side effects . The thing is she has never shown with Artemis during the main story . Juuri was shown with Artemis during a bonus story . ( The one which explains why Kaien likes to takes photos of his loved one . As he never took a photo from Haruka / Juuri . ) Here Kaien was trying to hunt Juuri .She attacked him both the pureblood kick of doom . And she was carrying Artemis .

4- Zero
He could use anti - vampire weapons because he was born a vampire hunter . He didn't lose the abilty when turned vampire . But could be hurt with the weapons .

Until now , no other Kuran pureblood vampire has being shown with the power of fully yield anti - vampire weapons .

Most probably there were other Kurans members with the ability . But not shown nor known yet if they have the ability .

Apparently Haruka couldn't yield anti - vampire weapons .

The case of Kaname is an interesting one . Most vampires could not even touch an anti - vampire weapon without huge side effects . Even could die from touching them if low level . ( Zero case is different as he was a vampire hunter with anti - vampire weapons powers before becoming a Level D vampire . ) Basically all vampires ,no matter level ,could not use the weapons . Even if they can tolerate touching it . Kaname appears to tolerate carrying an anti - vampire weapon . Could use the weapon . But even if the weapon rejects him , he could most of time regenerate quickly enough for using it . Sort of a partial power to yield anti - vampire weapons that no other pureblood have . Enough for him becoming the Vampire King due to that ability .

******************************

On topic :

A main difference between the way purebloods and other vampires died . Purebloods turn to dust and crystal shards when dying . The rest of vampires , no matter which level ( B , C , D or E ) only turn to dust when killed .

Also a pureblood could be alive for several minutes after being attacked with an anti - vampire weapon even if their heart ripped / head severed .( As the case of Shizuka and Rido . ) Their deaths are not instantaneously . If a Level B or under vampire is attack with an anti - vampire weapon , their death is in an instant . Except again in the case of Zero . Who was shown to survive an attack with anti - vampire bullet from Bloody Rose ( Not to his heart nor head of course . ). Without turning to dust in an instant . Most probably here ; because he has enough pureblood's blood inside of him to have a similar tolerance to anti - vampire weapons attacks as a pureblood does .

rumland wrote:You dont think his hand being burned pitch black is a sign of rejection? Realy?
Excludeing the earlyist of chapters all the vampires that have touched the artimist have caused the lightning effect, this includes zero and kaname as well as yuki when she first turned. Prior vampire yuki no lightning, vampire yuki lightning, which hurt her, then after words the lightning stops with her and se is able to use it.
Think of the lightning as a eltric fence, it is there to reject entry, now just cause it is eltrified dosen't mean it cant be climbed, you just have to be able to bare the pain, we know the lightning cause pain from yuki grabbing it after turning.
Now as far as the manga has shown the only thing that happens when the artimis is touched by the a vampire is the lightning, so it is common sence to assume that is the rejection feature.

???????????????????

Where is the rejection? no the lightening effect/ the rejection...because apparently rejection means rejection.

I insist where is the rejection?
can he hold it? YES
can he use it? Yes

Since he can do both then where is the rejection?

And how would it possible Kaname not to be able ro wield the weapons since he has the power as shown by his past intentions to sacrifice his life and create the hunters and the weapons...and that would be a grear contradiction to the story/gap..

@ solace, thanks for the link

oh, and who/what concluded that "The lightning is a sign of rejection"? it didn't reject kaname despite that, he was still holding it. If a weapon "rejects" someone, it won't let it be used by that person it rejected. Its like inserting an atm card with no balance and the machine spits it out again because it has no cash, that's rejection.

I agree...in the sense that Rum says it, who ever can bear it can aslo wield it?

I do not think so, either they can hold it/use it either they can't.

Right here top right

As for conterdiction/gaps, I dont remember it saying straight out that kaname can weild the weapons, all it ever stated was he was the first to figure out how to make them and that the kuran line has had people who can use them, the rest of it is all just your opion or if you can show me a page saying flat out that he can weild them with out paying a price then I will withdraw my statement, but that page dont exist.

Lightning effect, hand burnt to a crisp, I will take that as a can't use the weapon with out a price situation aka not being able to properly weild the weapon.

Look give this some serius thought, if the weapons reject vampires like you are sugesting they do then the person would be rejected right off or away from the sword when it is swong at them.

Here maybe this will convence you kaname agreeing with me on the matter

As for conterdiction/gaps, I dont remember it saying straight out that kaname can weild the weapons, all it ever stated was he was the first to figure out how to make them and that the kuran line has had people who can use them, the rest of it is all just your opion or if you can show me a page saying flat out that he can weild them with out paying a price then I will withdraw my statement, but that page dont exist.

I just show you a page, no three actually where he WIELDS the anti-vampire weapons turning it against Rido, when he was younger and his powers as stated there had not been restored back yet fully, and you are telling me to tell you where it is stated?

If you can not believe your own eyes...that's your own matter.

How come back then there was no price for him to pay using the anti-vampire? Do you see the weapon? It is the same weapon..

That's why the real question is WHY now? It trully makes no sense asking if he has the anti-vampire power or if he can wield the weapons.
He did it in the past, he is the ancestor, he discovered the power from his own parts, there should not be a question.
If after all these that Hino pictured and stated, the above picture with his hand electrified does not strike your common logic and see that this part is wrong and not the already as facts given, what can I say or do? I quit. For me it's clear there is a problem here...because he had no problem in the past either there is a ligtening effect or no lightening effect present.

I am not going to add the picture cause it will be cut off but here is a cleaner picture of the page you posted, look at the top right of the top panel, also look on the guard in the panel that shows his hand.
http://i10.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/38/vampire-knight-56161.jpg

Edit in reply on picture: It is still not a clean enought picture for me to say with out a doubt that is lightning, but it sure does look like it to me.

juliet wrote:

As for conterdiction/gaps, I dont remember it saying straight out that kaname can weild the weapons, all it ever stated was he was the first to figure out how to make them and that the kuran line has had people who can use them, the rest of it is all just your opion or if you can show me a page saying flat out that he can weild them with out paying a price then I will withdraw my statement, but that page dont exist.

I just show you a page, no three actually where he WIELDS the anti-vampire weapons turning it against Rido, when he was younger and his powers as stated there had not been restored back yet fully, and you are telling me to tell you where it is stated?

If you can not believe your own eyes...that's your own matter.

How come back then there was no price for him to pay using the anti-vampire? Do you see the weapon? It is the same weapon..

That's why the real question is WHY now? It trully makes no sense asking if he has the anti-vampire power or if he can wield the weapons.
He did it in the past, he is the ancestor, he discovered the power from his own parts, there should not be a question.
If after all these that Hino pictured and stated, the above picture with his hand electrified does not strike your common logic and see that this part is wrong and not the already as facts given, what can I say or do? I quit. For me it's clear there is a problem here...because he had no problem in the past either there is a ligtening effect or no lightening effect present.

I second that!!!


1. Kaname as a child grabs the anti-vampire sword with the INTENTION to kill Rido … in other words he knew he could wield/use it! The fact that he didn’t finish Rido is irrelevant with the ability of using the anti-vampire sword.

2. The sword which Kaname had used to kill Hanadagi is the same sword he wielded as a child against Rido. Furthermore he did kill him didn’t he? This alone must be enough to answer the question if he has the ability/advantage to kill another PB by using an anti-vampire weapon!

3. If the side effects of using an ANW were so minor/limited as a burnt hand for example then WHY ANY OTHER PB DIDN’T USE ONE huh? The cost is nothing as regards the gain, isn’t? Why Sara had to use the hand of a hunter to kill Ouri and why she’s looking for another hunter’s hand to help her with her plan huh? A burnt hand which can easily regenerate is nothing for a PB … after all didn’t she lost her hand in order to gain Hanadagi’s heart? I didn’t see nor a drop of sweat from her …

4. Isaya said that some of the Kurans had this ability and that’s why they became kings/king … Kaname most likely was the first king (if not the only one) so isn’t logical to assume that he had/has this ability?

5. Now Kaname’s burnt/necrotic hand remains to be explained but thus far the evidence which support the thesis that Kaname has the ability to wield ANWs are stronger and undoubted …

edit to add:

And just to add a thought … this sword was Rido’s … we first saw it when Rido killed the baby Kaname in order to awake the ancestor Kaname. Also Aidou-dono describes the particular sword as cursed …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/33

… so the side effects on Kaname’s hand it could be related with the particular sword or maybe not. I just wanted to point out that there could be other factors which caused the burn on Kaname’s hand.

1. Kaname as a child grabs the anti-vampire sword with the INTENTION to kill Rido … in other words he knew he could wield/use it! The fact that he didn’t finish Rido is irrelevant with the ability of using the anti-vampire sword.
I covered that in my previous post.

2. The sword which Kaname had used to kill Hanadagi is the same sword he wielded as a child against Rido. Furthermore he did kill him didn’t he? This alone must be enough to answer the question if he has the ability/advantage to kill another PB by using an anti-vampire weapon!
All this showed was he got burned bad from useing the sword.

3. If the side effects of using an ANW were so minor/limited as a burnt hand for example then WHY ANY OTHER PB DIDN’T USE ONE huh? The cost is nothing as regards the gain, isn’t? Why Sara had to use the hand of a hunter to kill Ouri and why she’s looking for another hunter’s hand to help her with her plan huh? A burnt hand which can easily regenerate is nothing for a PB … after all didn’t she lost her hand in order to gain Hanadagi’s heart? I didn’t see nor a drop of sweat from her …
Minor??? The hand was burned to charcole, do you have anyidea how painfull that is? We also don't know if the damage has any lingering effects, what we do know is that damage done by anti vampire weapons wont heal easily and the only way to heal it quickly is to feed, iow if there is no one around to feed on the damage wont heal for some time.

4. Isaya said that some of the Kurans had this ability and that’s why they became kings/king … Kaname most likely was the first king (if not the only one) so isn’t logical to assume that he had/has this ability?
I doubt kaname was the first king, his decendents (edit: changed ancesters to decendents, was thinking of kaname the ancester and accidently wrote it instead) maybe but not kaname, a king would not go into a slumber while his people still need him, and as kaname said things are the same as they were before there was obviously still stuff he had to do.

5. Now Kaname’s burnt/necrotic hand remains to be explained but thus far the evidence which support the thesis that Kaname has the ability to wield ANWs are stronger and undoubted …
Only your interpitation of the evidence suports that, mine however does not suport it. [/quote]

I am not going to add the picture cause it will be cut off but here is a cleaner picture of the page you posted, look at the top right of the top panel, also look on the guard in the panel that shows his hand.
http://i10.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/38/vampire-knight-56161.jpg

What’s the cut off?

An electricity or whatever there is there, does not prove that Kaname can not wield anti-vampire…How is that possible? He is wielding, holding it, using it, pointing it against Rido…now the lighting is going to tell us if he can hold it or not and not the fact that he is using the weapon with or without lightening? That’s an effect only…I think you do not want to accept the obvious here.

@ Nina perfect points…

I covered that in my previous post.

Rum I do not know what exactly you covered but a lightening does not cover three pages with Kaname using/wielding the weapon and no side effect at his hand for using it and holding it.

All this showed was he got burned bad from useing the sword.

This is the weird here in relation to all things we know from history and from Kaname’s-Rido’s battle. What happened here?

Minor??? The hand was burned to charcole, do you have anyidea how painfull that is? We also don't know if the damage has any lingering effects, what we do know is that damage done by anti vampire weapons wont heal easily and the only way to heal it quickly is to feed, iow if there is no one around to feed on the damage wont heal for some time.

Oh please, here Kurans became Kings and it was not because they could tolerate a little more pain than the rest of the purebloods. Are the rest of pureblods so chicken hearted that they infront of Kaname and they go making schemes and risking their lives behind his back in order not to get a bit electroshocked by the weapons? because apparently Sara was not the first one to want power...

Nina is right, anti-vampire weapons were made to reject vampires…Kaname says that to Yuuki for Artemi’s case. We have seen Kaname holding both Artemis, Bloody Rose and this sword.
Now this conversation is dragging out without cause. If he could not wield them, he could not even hold them. Artemis accepted Yuuki despite the lightening due her anti-vampire power, not due to Yuuki's persistence. That’s the uniqueness in Kurans and let’s not forget it.

Only your interpitation of the evidence suports that, mine however does not suport it

No offense but if your interpretation is to ignore the fact that Kaname fights Rido, wielding anti-vampire, kills Hanadagi wielding anti-vampire, is the head of the Kuran clan and created the anti-vampire formula from his own body, but can not use them (because that’s what you are telling me), I’ ll take mine and Nina's.

And just to add a thought … this sword was Rido’s … we first saw it when Rido killed the baby Kaname in order to awake the ancestor Kaname. Also Aidou-dono describes the particular sword as cursed …

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/33

… so the side effects on Kaname’s hand it could be related with the particular sword or maybe not. I just wanted to point out that there could be other factors which caused the burn on Kaname’s hand.

It took Haruka’s life and then I have the idea that perhaps this is the reason Aido-Dono calls it cursed and also because it must be the same sword that little Kaname the baby was killed by Rido…I wonder if it can really be cursed or something..

To juliet about the cut off, when useing the post picture function on this site it cuts off the right part of the picture, I think this might be cause I use a special resalution to make the desktop fit on my screen.

As for the swords, I am not saying that all kurans can't wield them, just that kaname cant wield. Also notice I am useing the term wield and not use. He can obviously use the sword, however it is rejecting him as he does it. It is also possible that just by holding it he stops his own regeneration ability. So for a pb to use a av weapon it would be like useing a double edged sword. Sure you stop your enemys ability to regen but you aslo stop yours, with the kurans that have the ability to wield them the self regen is left alone.

Now this page explains the rejection
http://i5.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/41/vampire-knight-56264.jpg
And as you can see she is still holding even though it is rejecting her. That pretty much shows the weapon rejection, with the artimis and the sword the rejection is in the form of lightning and for the bloody rose I belive it is in the form of vines.
The thing I thought I explained was in the picture you posted juliet, there appears to be lightning in at least 2 of the images in that picture to me.