Who is best for Yuuki? Kaname or Zero?

First topic message reminder :

Who best fits Yuuki? Who is made for her? Zero Or Kaname? And why?



OR




I know both are but what about what Yuuki needs?

YukikaChan wrote: As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down --

exactly. he was a good friend for Yuki but her lover was Kaname.

But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too.

Zero also thinks Yuki has changed because she became a pureblood but she hasn't really changed both physically and mentally as Yori herself observed. Yuki had loved Kaname all along you just failed to see it. Kaname accepted her as a human and pureblood, loving her unconditionally in both forms, while Zero stopped doing so when she turned.

sweetsolace wrote:

YukikaChan wrote: As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down --

exactly. he was a good friend for Yuki but her lover was Kaname.

But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too.

Zero also thinks Yuki has changed because she became a pureblood but she hasn't really changed both physically and mentally as Yori herself observed. Yuki had loved Kaname all along you just failed to see it. Kaname accepted her as a human and pureblood, loving her unconditionally in both forms, while Zero stopped doing so when she turned.

I always believed that good friends made better lovers. :> You already trust each other, and being close together is wonderful. But yes, she did change. In the beginning half, Yuki is more of a careless, tomboy-ish character. She showed most of her concern towards her friends in need. After she was bitten and her "vampire self" awakened and her memories returned, she became a bit more graceful and her concerns shifted from her friends to kaname and the academy. She also tends to think about her 'vampire' part of herself, and her 'human' part of herself.

sweetsolace wrote:

YukikaChan wrote: As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down --

exactly. he was a good friend for Yuki but her lover was Kaname.

But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too.

Zero thinks Yuki has changed because she became a pureblood but she hasn't really changed both physically and mentally, she had loved Kaname all along you just failed to see it. Kaname accepted her as a human and pureblood, loving her unconditionally in both forms, while Zero stopped doing so when she turned.

You are completely right, Sweet. I agree 100%.

Yuuki hasn't really changed indeed. It's been a year, a lot has happened. The things around her has affected her, if it didn't then she is one detached character and doesn't care. As well, as she is maturing, which is a lot of it.

And since Kaname has loved her in both forms, as human and vampire, which Zero hasn't, that says to me Kaname's love is deeper than Zero's.

YukikaChan wrote:They were like a fighting old married couple.

How Yuuki & Zero fought was brother/sister like to me, reminding me in some ways of my mother and her younger brothers (my uncles). But to each their own interpretation.

YukikaChan wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:

YukikaChan wrote: As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down --

exactly. he was a good friend for Yuki but her lover was Kaname.

But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too.

Zero also thinks Yuki has changed because she became a pureblood but she hasn't really changed both physically and mentally as Yori herself observed. Yuki had loved Kaname all along you just failed to see it. Kaname accepted her as a human and pureblood, loving her unconditionally in both forms, while Zero stopped doing so when she turned.

I always believed that good friends made better lovers. :> You already trust each other, and being close together is wonderful. But yes, she did change. In the beginning half, Yuki is more of a careless, tomboy-ish character. She showed most of her concern towards her friends in need. After she was bitten and her "vampire self" awakened and her memories returned, she became a bit more graceful and her concerns shifted from her friends to kaname and the academy. She also tends to think about her 'vampire' part of herself, and her 'human' part of herself.

Good friends don't necessarily make better lovers. There are some people I can be good friends with, but not lovers, we just don't click that way. Also, I have a cousin, who was and still is good friends with a boy since childhood, but she married a different man, who she met after she was grown. I'm not saying good friends can't be good lovers, I'm just saying it doesn't mean they are better.

Well, Yuuki now has responsibilities, and she was taught to be graceful and like a princess. It's who she is. Well, perhaps she has changed, but it would be a change going back to her true self, for she was born a PB vampire, not a human. A human she wasn't meant to be, but a PB princess, which she needs to act like.

I personally don't like Yuki and Kaname's relationship, though. Kaname just seems obsessed with her, and the only real reason I could find that Yuki liked Kaname was 'because he saved her all those years ago' and him being her brother and their fate with their clan and all. But from the series it didn't seem like she had a real reason to love him.

And that's what makes it so special to me. Yuuki and Kaname seem to love each other just because the other one breathes. It might be called more of a fairy tale than realistic, but then again why would we read just to stick to reality. I really love this aspect of the Yume love. Because with reasons, when people change love could disappear. With reasons comes expectations and then disappointments. That's why in reality divorces are so rampant. But if its a love beyond reason, then that's when you can be sure it will last forever. That is how happily ever after exists. The words like "I will go down with you." or "It can only be you." or "I love you more than anyone else in the world" has deeper meaning because of this lack of reasons. You know you can be extremely selfish with this person and inflict in them the greatest pain, but they would still love you. Its what people call being "made for each other" or being "soulmates".

However, if you are quite picky on reasons, there are still a lot scattered here and there. But mostly I find that these reasons exists because they love each other. Its like "I love you thus I will find reasons to love you" kind of thing.

soulkeeper_pol wrote:

I personally don't like Yuki and Kaname's relationship, though. Kaname just seems obsessed with her, and the only real reason I could find that Yuki liked Kaname was 'because he saved her all those years ago' and him being her brother and their fate with their clan and all. But from the series it didn't seem like she had a real reason to love him.

And that's what makes it so special to me. Yuuki and Kaname seem to love each other just because the other one breathes. It might be called more of a fairy tale than realistic, but then again why would we read just to stick to reality. I really love this aspect of the Yume love. Because with reasons, when people change love could disappear. With reasons comes expectations and then disappointments. That's why in reality divorces are so rampant. But if its a love beyond reason, then that's when you can be sure it will last forever. That is how happily ever after exists. The words like "I will go down with you." or "It can only be you." or "I love you more than anyone else in the world" has deeper meaning because of this lack of reasons. You know you can be extremely selfish with this person and inflict in them the greatest pain, but they would still love you. Its what people call being "made for each other" or being "soulmates".

However, if you are quite picky on reasons, there are still a lot scattered here and there. But mostly I find that these reasons exists because they love each other. Its like "I love you thus I will find reasons to love you" kind of thing.

I couldn't agree more! That's why I love Yume too. Fabulous post Soul!

YukikaChan wrote:
But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too. Now it kind of seems like she is a ditsy princess who doesn't consider what is important but dreams all day about Kaname.

I personally don't like Yuki and Kaname's relationship, though. Kaname just seems obsessed with her, and the only real reason I could find that Yuki liked Kaname was 'because he saved her all those years ago' and him being her brother and their fate with their clan and all. But from the series it didn't seem like she had a real reason to love him. As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down and he'd do anything to protect her, despite being so cold-hearted. If Yuki would have dug down a bit deeper.. I bet he would have opened up to her more...

well as far as being protective and loving your beloved is called possessive by some. it's called caring and being true to the one you love that is what kaname is to yuuki. i personaly hate zeki. zero knew from the very beginning that yuuki loved kaname, just why did he fall in love with her, which i dont think he does he is just extremely protective of her to the point he thinks he loves her.

yuki does love kaname, just because he saved her she wouldn't agree to be a vampire when kaname asked her would you live by my side for eternity she said yes and she was waiting for those words.why because she truly loves him.this isnt some give and take thing, you saved me lets repay you. thats absurd.

yeah kaname's love for yuuki throughout the series from the point she was born, his suffering when they were apart. yeah no reason at all for yuuki to love him.yuuki was born to be with kaname they loved each other when they were kids as well.

if you forgot kaname says this to yuuki," we are gonna be like okasan and otousan[juri and haruka]. yuki has always loved kaname. if she wasnt bitten then also she loved him and why shouldn't she be bitten she is a pureblood kuran not a human. kaname and her parents wanted her safe thats why they changed her.yuuki was being tormented by her memories by your way she should be left like thator let rido kill her or think of her as her mother.kaname changed her to protect yuuki from rido and to save her from going mad.

oh yuuki knows she loves kaname why shouldn't she think of him. he is her fiance and she has every right to think of him.

if she really became a sort of ditsy as you say she wouldnt have talked with sayori or zero thinking of herself as very important. she loves kaname truly thats why she thinks of him kaname is important to her thats why she thinks of him.

they talk a lot about different stuff to like why purebloods want to die,she was taught by aidou as well. she studied too. she personally went to isaya shouto to talk to him. she isnt dreaming of kaname everytime she is doing what she should as kaname's fiance and a kuran.

Conrad Weller wrote:

YukikaChan wrote:
But after she was bitten, Yuki had changed, and her personality has seemed to morph a bit, too. Now it kind of seems like she is a ditsy princess who doesn't consider what is important but dreams all day about Kaname.

I personally don't like Yuki and Kaname's relationship, though. Kaname just seems obsessed with her, and the only real reason I could find that Yuki liked Kaname was 'because he saved her all those years ago' and him being her brother and their fate with their clan and all. But from the series it didn't seem like she had a real reason to love him. As for Zero, though, he was a good friend deep down and he'd do anything to protect her, despite being so cold-hearted. If Yuki would have dug down a bit deeper.. I bet he would have opened up to her more...

well as far as being protective and loving your beloved is called possessive by some. it called caring and being true the one you love that is what kaname is to yuuki. i personaly hate zeki. zero knew from the very beginning that yuuki loved kaname, just why did he fall in love with her which i dont think he does he is just extremely protective of her to the point he thinks he loves her.

yuki does love kaname just because he saved her she wouldn't agree to be a vampire when kaname asked her would you live by my side for eternity she said yes and she was waiting for those words.why because she truly loves him.this isnt some give and take thing you saved me lets repay you. thats absurd.

yeah kaname's love for yuuki throughout the series from the point she was born, his suffering when they were apart. yeah no reason at all for yuuki to love him.yuuki was born to be with kaname they loved each other when they were kids as well.

if you forgot kaname says this to yuuki," we are gonna ber like okasan and otousan[juri and haruka]. yuki has always loved kaname. if she wasnt bitten then also she loved him and why shouldn't she be itten she is a pureblood kuran not a human. kaname and her parents wanted her safe thats why they changed her.

oh yuuki knows she loves kaname why shouldn't she think of him. he is her fiance and she has every right to think of him.

if she really became a sort of ditsy as you say she wouldnt have talked with sayori or zero thinking of herself as very important. she loves kaname truly thats why she thinks of him kaname is important to her thats why she thinks of him.

they talk a lot about different stuff to like why purebloods want to die, she personally went to isaya shouto to talk to him. she isnt dreaming of kaname everytime she is doing what she should as kaname's fiance and a kuran.

You are completely right. I salute you.

I truly believe Zero & Yuuki's feelings for each other is platonic and is in a sibling/close friends way. I don't like Zeki at all either. They just don't seem to click in that way for them to have a romantic relationship, in my opinion. And all the developments, as well, is in favor of Yume not Zeki. And there is no hard concrete evidence Yuuki loves Zero in a romantic way. She says she has an attachment to him and she does care deeply, which can mean romantic or platonic. And I think you maybe right about Zero. It may be confusion on his part as well. After all he has gone through, he gotten really attached to Yuuki, and it's natural he wouldn't want her to go.

Indeed, Yuuki has always loved Kaname, not just because he saved her. They've always loved each other.

Love - The most spectacular,indescribable, deep euphoric feeling for someone.

Love is an incredibly powerful word. When you're in love, you always want to be together, and when you're not, you're thinking about being together because you need that person and without them your life is incomplete.

This love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions: completely loving someone. It's when you trust the other with your life and when you would do anything for each other. When you love someone you want nothing more than for them to be truly happy no matter what it takes because that's how much you care about them and because their needs come before your own. You hide nothing of yourself and can tell the other anything because you know they accept you just the way you are and vice versa.

It's when they're the last thing you think about before you go to sleep and when they're the first thing you think of when you wake up, the feeling that warms your heart and leaves you overcome by a feeling of serenity. Love involves wanting to show your affection and/or devotion to each other. It's the smile on your face you get when you're thinking about them and miss them.

Love can make you do anything and sacrifice for what will be better in the end. Love is intense,and passionate. Everything seems brighter, happier and more wonderful when you're in love. If you find it, don't let it go.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=love

yuuki and kaname accepter each other for what they are or what they did.
yuuki - yuuki was aware of kaname wanting to devore her before night class to start, but that wasn't in the way of her feelings for kaname to grow and later to confess her feelings.
yuuki accepted kaname when he confess his crimes(killing shizuka and the vampire council) and wanted to share the same fate with the one she's in love with.
before kaname showing his past she said to him "my feelings for you won't change, you're the only kaname I know". again, no matter who kaname was she accepted him and decided to start over with him (romanticaly)-her reaction when kaname left her is the proof, more even her body reacted, for the first time she developed wings.
kaname - he waited and protected yuuki for 10 yrs. he did everything he could to protect yuuki from rido. after she return on his side he accepted her even if a part of her heart was bound to someone else. and kaname didn't try to change her, he even understood her "a yuuki with the heart full of love is the real you".
Again, I will repeat myself, kaname and yuuki accepted one and other with their goods and bads. no matter what their past was or what they did, their love was stronger.

yuuki - seeing zero for the first time she saw herself. having kaname on her side she learn how to be gentle and aplied that to zero.
yuuki found out about zero being a vampire into a brutal way: she was biten, no warning before. but even if she lived something like this, she accepted zero the way he is: a vampire and even claimed herself being his ally. zero attacking her wasn't a reason for her to change her feelings for zero, even she decided to feed him regulary to save him.
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

Kaname is the best for yuuki because he accept her the way she is, yuuki's the best for kaname because she accept him they way he is, taint or not.

aya-chan wrote:Love - The most spectacular,indescribable, deep euphoric feeling for someone.

Love is an incredibly powerful word. When you're in love, you always want to be together, and when you're not, you're thinking about being together because you need that person and without them your life is incomplete.

This love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions: completely loving someone. It's when you trust the other with your life and when you would do anything for each other. When you love someone you want nothing more than for them to be truly happy no matter what it takes because that's how much you care about them and because their needs come before your own. You hide nothing of yourself and can tell the other anything because you know they accept you just the way you are and vice versa.

It's when they're the last thing you think about before you go to sleep and when they're the first thing you think of when you wake up, the feeling that warms your heart and leaves you overcome by a feeling of serenity. Love involves wanting to show your affection and/or devotion to each other. It's the smile on your face you get when you're thinking about them and miss them.

Love can make you do anything and sacrifice for what will be better in the end. Love is intense,and passionate. Everything seems brighter, happier and more wonderful when you're in love. If you find it, don't let it go.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=love

yuuki and kaname accepter each other for what they are or what they did.
yuuki - yuuki was aware of kaname wanting to devore her before night class to start, but that wasn't in the way of her feelings for kaname to grow and later to confess her feelings.
yuuki accepted kaname when he confess his crimes(killing shizuka and the vampire council) and wanted to share the same fate with the one she's in love with.
before kaname showing his past she said to him "my feelings for you won't change, you're the only kaname I know". again, no matter who kaname was she accepted him and decided to start over with him (romanticaly)-her reaction when kaname left her is the proof, more even her body reacted, for the first time she developed wings.
kaname - he waited and protected yuuki for 10 yrs. he did everything he could to protect yuuki from rido. after she return on his side he accepted her even if a part of her heart was bound to someone else. and kaname didn't try to change her, he even understood her "a yuuki with the heart full of love is the real you".
Again, I will repeat myself, kaname and yuuki accepted one and other with their goods and bads. no matter what their past was or what they did, their love was stronger.

yuuki - seeing zero for the first time she saw herself. having kaname on her side she learn how to be gentle and aplied that to zero.
yuuki found out about zero being a vampire into a brutal way: she was biten, no warning before. but even if she lived something like this, she accepted zero the way he is: a vampire and even claimed herself being his ally. zero attacking her wasn't a reason for her to change her feelings for zero, even she decided to feed him regulary to save him.
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

Kaname is the best for yuuki because he accept her the way she is, yuuki's the best for kaname because she accept him they way he is, taint or not.

agreed and an excellent post by the way!!!

Love is a very powerful word and has been used by both kaname and yuuki towards each other. Whats the saying "Love conquers all" and with Yume i see this saying as very true.

Bloodredhead wrote:

aya-chan wrote:Love - The most spectacular,indescribable, deep euphoric feeling for someone.

Love is an incredibly powerful word. When you're in love, you always want to be together, and when you're not, you're thinking about being together because you need that person and without them your life is incomplete.

This love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions: completely loving someone. It's when you trust the other with your life and when you would do anything for each other. When you love someone you want nothing more than for them to be truly happy no matter what it takes because that's how much you care about them and because their needs come before your own. You hide nothing of yourself and can tell the other anything because you know they accept you just the way you are and vice versa.

It's when they're the last thing you think about before you go to sleep and when they're the first thing you think of when you wake up, the feeling that warms your heart and leaves you overcome by a feeling of serenity. Love involves wanting to show your affection and/or devotion to each other. It's the smile on your face you get when you're thinking about them and miss them.

Love can make you do anything and sacrifice for what will be better in the end. Love is intense,and passionate. Everything seems brighter, happier and more wonderful when you're in love. If you find it, don't let it go.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=love

yuuki and kaname accepter each other for what they are or what they did.
yuuki - yuuki was aware of kaname wanting to devore her before night class to start, but that wasn't in the way of her feelings for kaname to grow and later to confess her feelings.
yuuki accepted kaname when he confess his crimes(killing shizuka and the vampire council) and wanted to share the same fate with the one she's in love with.
before kaname showing his past she said to him "my feelings for you won't change, you're the only kaname I know". again, no matter who kaname was she accepted him and decided to start over with him (romanticaly)-her reaction when kaname left her is the proof, more even her body reacted, for the first time she developed wings.
kaname - he waited and protected yuuki for 10 yrs. he did everything he could to protect yuuki from rido. after she return on his side he accepted her even if a part of her heart was bound to someone else. and kaname didn't try to change her, he even understood her "a yuuki with the heart full of love is the real you".
Again, I will repeat myself, kaname and yuuki accepted one and other with their goods and bads. no matter what their past was or what they did, their love was stronger.

yuuki - seeing zero for the first time she saw herself. having kaname on her side she learn how to be gentle and aplied that to zero.
yuuki found out about zero being a vampire into a brutal way: she was biten, no warning before. but even if she lived something like this, she accepted zero the way he is: a vampire and even claimed herself being his ally. zero attacking her wasn't a reason for her to change her feelings for zero, even she decided to feed him regulary to save him.
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

Kaname is the best for yuuki because he accept her the way she is, yuuki's the best for kaname because she accept him they way he is, taint or not.

agreed and an excellent post by the way!!!

Love is a very powerful word and has been used by both kaname and yuuki towards each other. Whats the saying "Love conquers all" and with Yume i see this saying as very true.

I agree with Bloodredhead. And what a fabulous post indeed Aya-chan!!!

Yes, love is so powerful and beautiful. And indeed, she that is Yume. Can't help, but comment to show I agree. So true and beautiful.

aya-chan wrote:Love - The most spectacular,indescribable, deep euphoric feeling for someone.

Love is an incredibly powerful word. When you're in love, you always want to be together, and when you're not, you're thinking about being together because you need that person and without them your life is incomplete.

This love is unconditional affection with no limits or conditions: completely loving someone. It's when you trust the other with your life and when you would do anything for each other. When you love someone you want nothing more than for them to be truly happy no matter what it takes because that's how much you care about them and because their needs come before your own. You hide nothing of yourself and can tell the other anything because you know they accept you just the way you are and vice versa.

It's when they're the last thing you think about before you go to sleep and when they're the first thing you think of when you wake up, the feeling that warms your heart and leaves you overcome by a feeling of serenity. Love involves wanting to show your affection and/or devotion to each other. It's the smile on your face you get when you're thinking about them and miss them.

Love can make you do anything and sacrifice for what will be better in the end. Love is intense,and passionate. Everything seems brighter, happier and more wonderful when you're in love. If you find it, don't let it go.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=love

yuuki and kaname accepter each other for what they are or what they did.
yuuki - yuuki was aware of kaname wanting to devore her before night class to start, but that wasn't in the way of her feelings for kaname to grow and later to confess her feelings.
yuuki accepted kaname when he confess his crimes(killing shizuka and the vampire council) and wanted to share the same fate with the one she's in love with.
before kaname showing his past she said to him "my feelings for you won't change, you're the only kaname I know". again, no matter who kaname was she accepted him and decided to start over with him (romanticaly)-her reaction when kaname left her is the proof, more even her body reacted, for the first time she developed wings.
kaname - he waited and protected yuuki for 10 yrs. he did everything he could to protect yuuki from rido. after she return on his side he accepted her even if a part of her heart was bound to someone else. and kaname didn't try to change her, he even understood her "a yuuki with the heart full of love is the real you".
Again, I will repeat myself, kaname and yuuki accepted one and other with their goods and bads. no matter what their past was or what they did, their love was stronger.

yuuki - seeing zero for the first time she saw herself. having kaname on her side she learn how to be gentle and aplied that to zero.
yuuki found out about zero being a vampire into a brutal way: she was biten, no warning before. but even if she lived something like this, she accepted zero the way he is: a vampire and even claimed herself being his ally. zero attacking her wasn't a reason for her to change her feelings for zero, even she decided to feed him regulary to save him.
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

Kaname is the best for yuuki because he accept her the way she is, yuuki's the best for kaname because she accept him they way he is, taint or not.

Aya-chan... you definitely deserve a rose for your comment. Everything that you've posted was more than just reliable, but also informative. The last paragraph that you've posted shows undeniable proof Yuuki loves Kaname... and she still accepts him. Tainted Love, Forbidden Love, Immortal Love-- it's still L-O-V-E to me.

aya-chan wrote:
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

You forget that he's accepting it now.
Indeed, it was stupid of him to say such things,but if you look at all the things that had hapenned around that time...So the hate part isn't really correct.

Anneliezz wrote:

aya-chan wrote:
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

You forget that he's accepting it now.
Indeed, it was stupid of him to say such things,but if you look at all the things that had hapenned around that time...So the hate part isn't really correct.

What it's not correct? zero hating purebloods vampire? then he want to kill of pureblood vampires because he likes them?
First encounter between kaname and zero, zero attacked kaname with a kitchen knif. kaname said nothing to zero, but he was attacked by him. kaname was attacked because zero likes him?
When I say zero's love for yuuki was overcome by his hatred for pureblood vampires is correct. he did not point a gun at her and said they're enemies out of love.
I don't say zero doesn't care at yuuki, but at some point existed something stronger than his love.

Kaname and Yuki accept each other no matter what the truth may be. I really want to see them together. They are meant for each other!!!

aya-chan wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:

aya-chan wrote:
zero - he let himself being swept by yuuki's kindness and developed feelings for her. he felt guilty for attacking yuuki and hated himself. he always knew yuuki's in love with kaname and even helped yuuki to give her chocolate to kaname. he tried to repay what he did to yuuki -feeding on her - offering her his protection and even to say that yuuki can do whatever she wants with his life. his devotion for yuuki was completely.
But this changed in the moment when yuuki became something he hate the most: pureblood vampire. even if he was aware of yuuki being kind, a girl with a heart full with love, it wasn't enough for him to not say "next time I will kill you, you're my enemy". Zero's words made yuuki to suffer, for yuuki zero was a familly member. His love for yuuki was overcome by his hate for pureblood vampires.
Yuuki accepted zero the way he is, but zero did not do the same, zero rejected yuuki's true nature.

You forget that he's accepting it now.
Indeed, it was stupid of him to say such things,but if you look at all the things that had hapenned around that time...So the hate part isn't really correct.

What it's not correct? zero hating purebloods vampire? then he want to kill of pureblood vampires because he likes them?
First encounter between kaname and zero, zero attacked kaname with a kitchen knif. kaname said nothing to zero, but he was attacked by him. kaname was attacked because zero likes him?
When I say zero's love for yuuki was overcome by his hatred for pureblood vampires is correct. he did not point a gun at her and said they're enemies out of love.
I don't say zero doesn't care at yuuki, but at some point existed something stronger than his love.

I'm not talking about the purbloods in general here, Im talking about yuuki. Ofcourse zero hates purbloods, i'm not saying that. I just mean that zero doesn't hate yuuki more than he loves her. Indeed, at the end of the first arcade it seemed he did. (though he kissed her) But in the second arcade we see it's not that way. He's not happy with it, but he's been helping her, wich mean he can put things aside, thus the love-part is bigger. He even said to maria that he doesn't blame her, so he was probs even saying that (i will kill you) because she went with kaname. Of that we are ofcourse not sure, so he might have hated her back then. But since you seem to talk about their entitre relation, it doesn't seem fair, to base everything on that single moment ( again where he'd been trough a lot)

Anneliezz wrote:

aya-chan wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:
You forget that he's accepting it now.
Indeed, it was stupid of him to say such things,but if you look at all the things that had hapenned around that time...So the hate part isn't really correct.

What it's not correct? zero hating purebloods vampire? then he want to kill of pureblood vampires because he likes them?
First encounter between kaname and zero, zero attacked kaname with a kitchen knif. kaname said nothing to zero, but he was attacked by him. kaname was attacked because zero likes him?
When I say zero's love for yuuki was overcome by his hatred for pureblood vampires is correct. he did not point a gun at her and said they're enemies out of love.
I don't say zero doesn't care at yuuki, but at some point existed something stronger than his love.

I'm not talking about the purbloods in general here, Im talking about yuuki. Ofcourse zero hates purbloods, i'm not saying that. I just mean that zero doesn't hate yuuki more than he loves her. Indeed, at the end of the first arcade it seemed he did. (though he kissed her) But in the second arcade we see it's not that way. He's not happy with it, but he's been helping her, wich mean he can put things aside, thus the love-part is bigger. He even said to maria that he doesn't blame her, so he was probs even saying that (i will kill you) because she went with kaname. Of that we are ofcourse not sure, so he might have hated her back then. But since you seem to talk about their entitre relation, it doesn't seem fair, to base everything on that single moment ( again where he'd been trough a lot)

I am not talking about zero x yuuki entire relationship, I am talking about the moment when he find out yuuki's a pureblood vampire and what he did afterwards: he pointed a gun at her and say he will kill her next time.

I am saying his general hatred for purebloods made him react this way towards yuuki, even if he knew yuuki's a kind person, she's not the same as other vampire he couldn't control his hatred feelings for purebloods.

A year after cross academy events:*according official translation Shojo beat viz Media* zero still remained at his idea to kill yuuki if he has a reason.

cross: "Yuuki will be there. A year ago you told me you were going to kill her. I know you. You're not the kind of person who'd break hunters regulations and hunt purebloods without a legitimate reason."

zero: "I suppose. But I will kill her the moment I have a legitimate reason to do so."

I don't say zero don't have feelings for yuuki, it's obvious he have, but I wonder how much he love/loved her? when zero was put face to face with the truth *yuuki being a pureblood* zero failed. he didn't accept yuuki the way she's, despite his love for her.

so he was probs even saying that (i will kill you) because she went with kaname.

If zero said this because she choose kaname, then it's worst. it's like : you dumped me, so I will kill you. no one leaves me.

aya-chan wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:

aya-chan wrote:

What it's not correct? zero hating purebloods vampire? then he want to kill of pureblood vampires because he likes them?
First encounter between kaname and zero, zero attacked kaname with a kitchen knif. kaname said nothing to zero, but he was attacked by him. kaname was attacked because zero likes him?
When I say zero's love for yuuki was overcome by his hatred for pureblood vampires is correct. he did not point a gun at her and said they're enemies out of love.
I don't say zero doesn't care at yuuki, but at some point existed something stronger than his love.

I'm not talking about the purbloods in general here, Im talking about yuuki. Ofcourse zero hates purbloods, i'm not saying that. I just mean that zero doesn't hate yuuki more than he loves her. Indeed, at the end of the first arcade it seemed he did. (though he kissed her) But in the second arcade we see it's not that way. He's not happy with it, but he's been helping her, wich mean he can put things aside, thus the love-part is bigger. He even said to maria that he doesn't blame her, so he was probs even saying that (i will kill you) because she went with kaname. Of that we are ofcourse not sure, so he might have hated her back then. But since you seem to talk about their entitre relation, it doesn't seem fair, to base everything on that single moment ( again where he'd been trough a lot)

I am not talking about zero x yuuki entire relationship, I am talking about the moment when he find out yuuki's a pureblood vampire and what he did afterwards: he pointed a gun at her and say he will kill her next time.

I am saying his general hatred for purebloods made him react this way towards yuuki, even if he knew yuuki's a kind person, she's not the same as other vampire he couldn't control his hatred feelings for purebloods.

A year after cross academy events:*according official translation Shojo beat viz Media* zero still remained at his idea to kill yuuki if he has a reason.

cross: "Yuuki will be there. A year ago you told me you were going to kill her. I know you. You're not the kind of person who'd break hunters regulations and hunt purebloods without a legitimate reason."

zero: "I suppose. But I will kill her the moment I have a legitimate reason to do so."

I don't say zero don't have feelings for yuuki, it's obvious he have, but I wonder how much he love/loved her? when zero was put face to face with the truth *yuuki being a pureblood* zero failed. he didn't accept yuuki the way she's, despite his love for her.

so he was probs even saying that (i will kill you) because she went with kaname.

If zero said this because she choose kaname, then it's worst. it's like : you dumped me, so I will kill you. no one leaves me.

I'm agreeing to the fact that at that moment he did hate her more. Butr not in the year later part. Indeed, he said that to cross. But it seems more like empty talk, if we look at his actions, al he's been doing is helping her. To me that proves, that the loving part is stronger. And I think I expressed that last thing a bit wrong: I meant that yuuki being a pb probs not the ONLY reson why he said it. I mean the girl he loves leaves with the guy he hates most, leaving him alone. That must have hurt at least a little bit right?

Not to mention that before parting ways, Zero kissed Yuuki, told her how much he desired only her blood, asked her if he was still needed as support for her in any way, and then after receiving the answer, proceeded to cut all ties with her.

I'm not saying that Zero doesn't hate purebloods because that fact heavily affected his decision to declare Yuuki as his enemy but there are so many other factors at play here that could explain why Zero acted the way he did. Things can't be so black and white with him anymore where vampires are bad and humans are good. There is a grey area with Zero now that Yuuki is a vampire. But as much as he loves Yuuki, his hatred for vampires or more like purebloods remains. That hatred which was born from a childhood trauma isn't easy to forget or to overcome. Time didn't heal it so much, only tempered it, but a catalyst (i.e. Yuuki) can surely help Zero overcome it. Ideally I would want him to accept the other good purebloods as well as Yuuki but considering how his hatred seems to be an overwhelming theme throughout this manga, it only seems right that it would be resolved by the end.

Now, one can argue that my opinions are based on bias observations, but I could argue the same thing for a Kaname/Yuuki endgame shipper. We all have our likes and dislikes and this is heavily based on what we ship in a series. I've never really cared for Kaname/Yuuki. There was no real spark to me. It lacked true, raw passion and Yuuki never seemed to level up to Kaname. There is this major gap between them that doesn't seem to want to be filled, even with the year (approx. guesstimate) they spent together. A Kaname/Yuuki shipper can argue the same point and many others about Zero/Yuuki. No one truly knows until the very end. Only the author herself does. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. So... everyone just sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.

I know that I am a little late but could not resist commenting...

while I can't say that what you wrote is impossible (because everything is possible), by reading the post that you wrote and your estimated version of what goes on, I almost got depression, honestly yes this would be indeed tragical, and I am mostly reffering to Kaname's part in the story as you describe it because without having the intention to insult anyone, I suspect that a great number of Zeki fans would have a celebration (logical, they would care about their favorite couple and not Kaname, this is an estimation, not an accusation in case anyone thinks of it as such).

There are points that I agree and disagree and I wish to go over them...

It’s quite the same with the Hooded Woman and Kaname. She’d given his life purpose. He’d planned to end this war of vampires for her, I’m betting. She had human parents. She openly says that she wanted to be useful to mankind and Kaname. He wanted to sacrifice everything just for her. Now, that shows immeasurable love, in my opinion. The Hooded Woman gave Kaname's life purpose, Yuuki will give Kaname's life meaning... because of the sacrifice he is going to make. His love for Yuuki and the Hooded Woman are equivalent.

Hoooded Woman and Kaname does not remind me at all Zero and Yuuki, it reminds me Kaname and Zero and I will tell you why.

Because Hooded Woman did not give a life purpose to Kaname
(As Nina very nicely explained Kaname's intention to create the anti-vampire and create a metallic soup that could kill his own kind was his own original idea so let's not underestimate it).
HW originally gave him an identity, a name, a task, a role to perfom > to lend her power and help her in aiding humans, now this role may became Kaname's objective but it was his original feelings (we see him how he was with people) that identify with that role.
It is exactly what Kaname does with Zero> Kaname assigns to Zero a role as well and points a task to his hands at that moment (to be Yuuki's shield), a role that after all, leads Zero in protecting Yuuki and it becomes a purpose to sustain more because Zero identifies with that role.

But does that mean that Kaname gave to Zero a purpose to live or to die for? No, apparently a purpose to live or to die for, is something that we make on our own device, based on our needs and our desires, our own objectives. Zero's objectives seem to divert back to the past when he was still unharmed (at least this is what I got from his visit to Ichirou), Kaname's objective is indeed Yuuki's safety.

Kaname's objective in the past was to aid the humans, after undertaking that role and finding a meaning in his own existence. This is what he worked for in his laboratory and what he was preparing in his own mind; his hesitation though and his postponement costed another sacrifice that he had not estimated and he regretted that he (his own existence), became the reason the only person he trusted and had in his life that period, decided to play this role for him.

That's a burden in his conscience> what hesitation does..perhaps a mistake he now does not intend to repeat and because Yuuki is indeed his purpose in life, he can not afford another mistake.

But what about the HW? Is she still around in his mind?

In my opinion, she is not. Kaname denies his connection to her (and this is his way to reassure Yuuki who is jealous in that scene) when he asks from Yuuki to change his name and find him another name> another identity.

And this is a very significant point because it shows how attached to his past, Kaname is...and he is not. I respect the preference you have (Kaname+HW) but I think that Hino has used her ways in order to tell us that this romance or relationship ended a lot of time ago and what remains of it, its the moral teaching of the story> Kaname fears that Yuuki is going to sacrifice herself while he delays his action again.

(if that's the sole reasons of his fears, as there are also other indications and hints that can lead another direction)...

Yuuki is finally coming to terms with her feelings for Zero, finally realizing what Zero means to her… even though she’s still trying to deny it.

M..in order to deny it, she has to realize it first and admit it, still we have not seen a personal neither a public love confession at this phase. Her thoughts revolve around her position and her tasks, not really Zero and Yuuki's feelings. In Yuuki's mind there is the picture when she meets him and he is an injured and wounded boy. This is the "frame" that her memories travel, wishing to reset their relationship.
From this point to the strong realization of undenied love feelings...there is a long way and distance that Hino has not conveyed. It would be good to see more of Yuuki's thoughts, but Hino postpones and delays it, decreasing the intesity as their conctact becomes now more casual. "She is burning them" according to me but we shall see.

As for character/relationship development, Yuuki has always been indecisive, Kaname has always been mysterious and contradictory, and Zero has always been hesitant. All three characters are now shifting, which would only be natural for any believable characters in a story. Their relationships are shifting. Everything is coming about. Zero will no longer hesitate. He is going after what he really wants. Count on it. Yuuki will choose. She won’t falter in giving Kaname his peace as well as Zero. Kaname’s secrets will be out in the open. All his past sins will be set before everyone. He’ll be on the dissecting table with all eyes turned to him.

Perhaps all of these estimations will come true, I also believe in them, of course all of this does not define the end game couple (if there is one. First of all what is Zero's objective that he will decide to go after?
Is it Yuuki? I don't think so. Apparently he will be called to make a final decision but I do not think that it will be about Yuuki, but about his own dilemas. He is well standing in the middle and right now he conveniently hides his desires under the official mask of the hunter, but the masks will need to fall someday.
His mask about Yuuki though has fallen chapters ago, when they were separating and he confessed his love feelings? what good is a repetition? are we seeing the same story again with a different ending? I would like to see something deeper, than that (concerning Zero).

This time, he’ll make sure that he is the sacrifice and not Yuuki. He is what gives Vampire Knight the genre of ‘Tragedy’. He isn’t the white knight like Zero. He is the dark knight that has been condemned to a long and painful life of suffering. I believe Kaname deserves peace. Not many understood him… It was mainly the Hooded Woman that really understood Kaname. It’s hard to be in a world where no one can really share your wave length. Yuuki tries, but it seems like she just can’t find his channel, and he doesn’t exactly make it accessible to her, either. He only shows her enough. She’s still left questioning.

I agree on the sacrifice aspect, I also think that he is determined to pull this to the end and if someone is going to fall, I believe that Kaname has already decided that it should be him this time around. He is taking the weight, as he also feels that he is rensponsible for the course of the vampire society.
While I believe his potential death would add the great tragic curtain to the final VK act, at the same time it would not offer a real resolution.

Even if Yuuki had Zero beside her as a guardian, how would she leave and continue with the weight that Kaname gave his own life to protect hers? > thus you are talking about Kaname who loved and loves the ancestor, unable to be released from her memory ten thousand years after her death> how would Yuuki would survive or how do you handle this implication as an act of salvation and peace?

And I think that here if I can make a prediction Zero is going to play a role that will act as a catalyst in repeating the drama and breaking the circle of death and sacrifices>

1. First story> Kaname- Ancestor

2. Second Story> Kaname-Yuuki- Zero as Hino said all three are keys to the co-existence, thus the resolution of VK...so what will be Zero's role? is he going to be a mere spectator?

What is best for Yuuki can not equal Kaname's death, especially for her own sake> will she ever accept Zero after this? I do not think that this can equal a true resolution, but okay its all down to mere predictions and estimations, still a logical aspect to suggest.

Anneliezz wrote:
I'm agreeing to the fact that at that
moment he did hate her more. Butr not in the year later part. Indeed, he
said that to cross. But it seems more like empty talk, if we look at
his actions, al he's been doing is helping her. To me that proves, that
the loving part is stronger. And I think I expressed that last thing a
bit wrong: I meant that yuuki being a pb probs not the ONLY reson why he
said it. I mean the girl he loves leaves with the guy he hates most,
leaving him alone. That must have hurt at least a little bit right?
Not to mention that before parting ways, Zero kissed Yuuki, told her how
much he desired only her blood, asked her if he was still needed as
support for her in any way, and then after receiving the answer,
proceeded to cut all ties with her.

Amaran wrote:
I'm not saying that Zero
doesn't hate purebloods because that fact heavily affected his decision
to declare Yuuki as his enemy but there are so many other factors at
play here that could explain why Zero acted the way he did. Things can't
be so black and white with him anymore where vampires are bad and
humans are good. There is a grey area with Zero now that Yuuki is a
vampire. But as much as he loves Yuuki, his hatred for vampires or more
like purebloods remains. That hatred which was born from a childhood
trauma isn't easy to forget or to overcome. Time didn't heal it so much,
only tempered it, but a catalyst (i.e. Yuuki) can surely help Zero
overcome it. Ideally I would want him to accept the other good
purebloods as well as Yuuki but considering how his hatred seems to be
an overwhelming theme throughout this manga, it only seems right that it
would be resolved by the end.

what he did later was irrelevant, in my opinion. The damage was done when he pointed his gun at her. Yuki was hurt by his declaration that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..." She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will his hate for her. This is supported by her words in chapter 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be the same.
This is Zero's hatred. Whether or not caused by his tragedy or his hunter genes, it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Generalization has always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.
Zero will not kill Yuki, he doesn't have enough courage to kill someone innocent as her, but he will always group her in the same category as his "hateful vampires" and he also cannot stop caring for her discreetly.
He still cares-- you can say its hard to break a habit. Everyone can see that. But this doesn't null the fact that vampires are still his enemy and Yuki is one of them. This generalization will remain as long as Zero feels hatred.
Zero giving Yuki his blood has a circumstantial reason rather than emotional, another possible proof he obliges to his most dominant emotion which is anger, rather than love. It is circumstantial as he said it was for his interest too, his action was sudden which means something triggered him to offer his blood to her all of a sudden, but this action did not change anything with regards to his hatred as evidenced by him approving Kaname's actions later on.

sweetsolace wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:
I'm agreeing to the fact that at that
moment he did hate her more. Butr not in the year later part. Indeed, he
said that to cross. But it seems more like empty talk, if we look at
his actions, al he's been doing is helping her. To me that proves, that
the loving part is stronger. And I think I expressed that last thing a
bit wrong: I meant that yuuki being a pb probs not the ONLY reson why he
said it. I mean the girl he loves leaves with the guy he hates most,
leaving him alone. That must have hurt at least a little bit right?
Not to mention that before parting ways, Zero kissed Yuuki, told her how
much he desired only her blood, asked her if he was still needed as
support for her in any way, and then after receiving the answer,
proceeded to cut all ties with her.

Amaran wrote:
I'm not saying that Zero
doesn't hate purebloods because that fact heavily affected his decision
to declare Yuuki as his enemy but there are so many other factors at
play here that could explain why Zero acted the way he did. Things can't
be so black and white with him anymore where vampires are bad and
humans are good. There is a grey area with Zero now that Yuuki is a
vampire. But as much as he loves Yuuki, his hatred for vampires or more
like purebloods remains. That hatred which was born from a childhood
trauma isn't easy to forget or to overcome. Time didn't heal it so much,
only tempered it, but a catalyst (i.e. Yuuki) can surely help Zero
overcome it. Ideally I would want him to accept the other good
purebloods as well as Yuuki but considering how his hatred seems to be
an overwhelming theme throughout this manga, it only seems right that it
would be resolved by the end.

what he did later was irrelevant, in my opinion. The damage was done when he pointed his gun at her. Yuki was hurt by his declaration that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..." She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will his hate for her. This is supported by her words in chapter 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be the same.
This is Zero's hatred. Whether or not caused by his tragedy or his hunter genes, it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Generalization has always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.
Zero will not kill Yuki, he doesn't have enough courage to kill someone innocent as her, but he will always group her in the same category as his "hateful vampires" and he also cannot stop caring for her discreetly.
He still cares-- you can say its hard to break a habit. Everyone can see that. But this doesn't null the fact that vampires are still his enemy and Yuki is one of them. This generalization will remain as long as Zero feels hatred.
Zero giving Yuki his blood has a circumstantial reason rather than emotional, another possible proof he obliges to his most dominant emotion which is anger, rather than love. It is circumstantial as he said it was for his interest too, his action was sudden which means something triggered him to offer his blood to her all of a sudden, but this action did not change anything with regards to his hatred as evidenced by him approving Kaname's actions later on.

I think this whole post just proves that we don't agree on one think. IMO, zero has accepted yuuki as she is. In your opinion not.
The things you say that proove he hates her, in my opinion proove taht he still loves he more. I'm not going to discuss it any further, since it probs won't make any diffrence. ( The reason why I commented then? I was annoyed because zero's hate clearly depends on pov here, we don't know anything for sure, but like you wrote it, it seemed like FACT that he does hate her.It's not) I justed wanted to point out that, for your arguments
1. you seem to compare yuuki to other pb ( for zero's there'sa major diffrence)
2. In your opninion, their entire relation seems defined by that one moment. It has consequences, sure. But it doesn't show their relation in the second arc.



( I hope i don't insult you in any way, i just notice that i use a lote of 'you' senteces, so if it seems rude or sth, it's not my intention )
Ah, but this seems to go in a certain direction of the old zeki-yume discussion again, so it's clear that opinions won't be the same.


amaran nice post

Anneliezz wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:
I'm agreeing to the fact that at that
moment he did hate her more. Butr not in the year later part. Indeed, he
said that to cross. But it seems more like empty talk, if we look at
his actions, al he's been doing is helping her. To me that proves, that
the loving part is stronger. And I think I expressed that last thing a
bit wrong: I meant that yuuki being a pb probs not the ONLY reson why he
said it. I mean the girl he loves leaves with the guy he hates most,
leaving him alone. That must have hurt at least a little bit right?
Not to mention that before parting ways, Zero kissed Yuuki, told her how
much he desired only her blood, asked her if he was still needed as
support for her in any way, and then after receiving the answer,
proceeded to cut all ties with her.

Amaran wrote:
I'm not saying that Zero
doesn't hate purebloods because that fact heavily affected his decision
to declare Yuuki as his enemy but there are so many other factors at
play here that could explain why Zero acted the way he did. Things can't
be so black and white with him anymore where vampires are bad and
humans are good. There is a grey area with Zero now that Yuuki is a
vampire. But as much as he loves Yuuki, his hatred for vampires or more
like purebloods remains. That hatred which was born from a childhood
trauma isn't easy to forget or to overcome. Time didn't heal it so much,
only tempered it, but a catalyst (i.e. Yuuki) can surely help Zero
overcome it. Ideally I would want him to accept the other good
purebloods as well as Yuuki but considering how his hatred seems to be
an overwhelming theme throughout this manga, it only seems right that it
would be resolved by the end.

what he did later was irrelevant, in my opinion. The damage was done when he pointed his gun at her. Yuki was hurt by his declaration that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..." She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will his hate for her. This is supported by her words in chapter 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be the same.
This is Zero's hatred. Whether or not caused by his tragedy or his hunter genes, it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Generalization has always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.
Zero will not kill Yuki, he doesn't have enough courage to kill someone innocent as her, but he will always group her in the same category as his "hateful vampires" and he also cannot stop caring for her discreetly.
He still cares-- you can say its hard to break a habit. Everyone can see that. But this doesn't null the fact that vampires are still his enemy and Yuki is one of them. This generalization will remain as long as Zero feels hatred.
Zero giving Yuki his blood has a circumstantial reason rather than emotional, another possible proof he obliges to his most dominant emotion which is anger, rather than love. It is circumstantial as he said it was for his interest too, his action was sudden which means something triggered him to offer his blood to her all of a sudden, but this action did not change anything with regards to his hatred as evidenced by him approving Kaname's actions later on.

I was annoyed because zero's hate clearly depends on pov here, we don't know anything for sure, but like you wrote it, it seemed like FACT that he does hate her.It's not) I justed wanted to point out that, for your arguments
1. you seem to compare yuuki to other pb ( for zero's there'sa major diffrence)
2. In your opninion, their entire relation seems defined by that one moment. It has consequences, sure. But it doesn't show their relation in the second arc.

( I hope i don't insult you in any way, i just notice that i use a lote of 'you' senteces, so if it seems rude or sth, it's not my intention )
Ah, but this seems to go in a certain direction of the old zeki-yume discussion again, so it's clear that opinions won't be the same.

amaran nice post

I gave examples to show how my opinion is fact for me. It's presenting supporting evidences. I was not trying to let my opinion do the talking on its own.
previous incidences are important to show the relation of a character's future actions especially concerning a particular area. For example, one poster in another thread said that "Shizuka had caused Zero's trauma towards biting on his neck" and I showed that there were no past incidents to fully support he is "traumatized" except Shizuka and Yuki.

1. you seem to compare yuuki to other pb ( for zero's there'sa major diffrence)

it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. Which means he can't tell good or bad vampire, they are all the same to him, hence I'm not the one comparing Yuki to other pb, I'm only using Yuki and Zero's reaction to her.That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for
the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Because--
Generalization has always been the same treatment for him towards vampires since in chapter 12, when Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he
saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a
butter knife because his smell stink vampire in their initial meeting.
Zero has a tendency to generalize his hatred, as showed ^. He can't define who is at fault and who isn't, for him only being a vampire or not matters in his anger selection. His actions had showed this in the 1st arc, he hates night class for no reason except they are vampires. This generalization caused him to point that gun to Yuki, his indiscriminate hatred included her in his list despite his concern for her ("Are you rid of your worries, fears? etc"). Hence, love was not enough to stop him from saying and doing such cruel things to Yuki. Hate > love.

Now second arc that is changing, he only hates purebloods, or so it seems.

2.
In your opninion, their entire relation seems defined by that one
moment. It has consequences, sure. But it doesn't show their relation in
the second arc.

I actually posted several moments, not just one.
Past relations can define how characters act in the future, especially if they haven't shown to have changed at all.In this case the same applies to Zero

CHAPTER 47: Yuki was hurt by his declaration
that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could
do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..."
She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will
his hate for her.
This is supported by her words in CHAPTER 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see
vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be
the same.
This is Zero's hatred.
Its not possible to
seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest.
CHAPTER 12: Generalization has
always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a
good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from
stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.

Another thing is, I haven't seen convincing proofs that Zero puts his love for Yuki before his hatred, other than his caring attitude in the second arc. His discreet concern for Yuki doesn't show he doesn't hate her. Because its the same for both of them--they both care.

sweetsolace wrote:

Anneliezz wrote:

sweetsolace wrote:


what he did later was irrelevant, in my opinion. The damage was done when he pointed his gun at her. Yuki was hurt by his declaration that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..." She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will his hate for her. This is supported by her words in chapter 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be the same.
This is Zero's hatred. Whether or not caused by his tragedy or his hunter genes, it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Generalization has always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.
Zero will not kill Yuki, he doesn't have enough courage to kill someone innocent as her, but he will always group her in the same category as his "hateful vampires" and he also cannot stop caring for her discreetly.
He still cares-- you can say its hard to break a habit. Everyone can see that. But this doesn't null the fact that vampires are still his enemy and Yuki is one of them. This generalization will remain as long as Zero feels hatred.
Zero giving Yuki his blood has a circumstantial reason rather than emotional, another possible proof he obliges to his most dominant emotion which is anger, rather than love. It is circumstantial as he said it was for his interest too, his action was sudden which means something triggered him to offer his blood to her all of a sudden, but this action did not change anything with regards to his hatred as evidenced by him approving Kaname's actions later on.

I was annoyed because zero's hate clearly depends on pov here, we don't know anything for sure, but like you wrote it, it seemed like FACT that he does hate her.It's not) I justed wanted to point out that, for your arguments
1. you seem to compare yuuki to other pb ( for zero's there'sa major diffrence)
2. In your opninion, their entire relation seems defined by that one moment. It has consequences, sure. But it doesn't show their relation in the second arc.

( I hope i don't insult you in any way, i just notice that i use a lote of 'you' senteces, so if it seems rude or sth, it's not my intention )
Ah, but this seems to go in a certain direction of the old zeki-yume discussion again, so it's clear that opinions won't be the same.

amaran nice post

I gave examples to show how my opinion is fact for me. It's presenting supporting evidences. I was not trying to let my opinion do the talking on its own.
previous incidences are important to show the relation of a character's future actions especially concerning a particular area. For example, one poster in another thread said that "Shizuka had caused Zero's trauma towards biting on his neck" and I showed that there were no past incidents to fully support he is "traumatized" except Shizuka and Yuki.

1. you seem to compare yuuki to other pb ( for zero's there'sa major diffrence)

it is still Zero's hatred that made him point his gun towards Yuki as a pureblood. Which means he can't tell good or bad vampire, they are all the same to him, hence I'm not the one comparing Yuki to other pb, I'm only using Yuki and Zero's reaction to her.That's his hatred overpowering everything he had known about Yuki for
the past four years, his anger that encompassed his love for her. Its not possible to seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest. Because--
Generalization has always been the same treatment for him towards vampires since in chapter 12, when Yuki told him Kaname was a good vampire and he
saved her life, still this didn't stop him from stabbing Kaname with a
butter knife because his smell stink vampire in their initial meeting.
Zero has a tendency to generalize his hatred, as showed ^. He can't define who is at fault and who isn't, for him only being a vampire or not matters in his anger selection. His actions had showed this in the 1st arc, he hates night class for no reason except they are vampires. This generalization caused him to point that gun to Yuki, his indiscriminate hatred included her in his list despite his concern for her ("Are you rid of your worries, fears? etc"). Hence, love was not enough to stop him from saying and doing such cruel things to Yuki. Hate > love.

Now second arc that is changing, he only hates purebloods, or so it seems.

2.
In your opninion, their entire relation seems defined by that one
moment. It has consequences, sure. But it doesn't show their relation in
the second arc.

I actually posted several moments, not just one.
Past relations can define how characters act in the future, especially if they haven't shown to have changed at all.In this case the same applies to Zero

CHAPTER 47: Yuki was hurt by his declaration
that they'll be enemies, she cried knowing there was nothing she could
do to change his views. She said, "I'm sorry Zero. But the vampire me is the real me. That will not change, and so will the future..."
She knows Zero will not change his views about vampires, and so will
his hate for her.
This is supported by her words in CHAPTER 71,
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c071/11.html
she believed Zero was still the same as before, who would never see
vampires as capable of being "good", she said their views will never be
the same.
This is Zero's hatred.
Its not possible to
seclude one person (Yuki) while hating the rest.
CHAPTER 12: Generalization has
always been the same treatment for him since Yuki told him Kaname was a
good vampire and he saved her life, still this didn't stop him from
stabbing Kaname with a butter knife because his smell stink vampire.

Another thing is, I haven't seen convincing proofs that Zero puts his love for Yuki before his hatred, other than his caring attitude in the second arc. His discreet concern for Yuki doesn't show he doesn't hate her. Because its the same for both of them--they both care.

- You should read chapter 12 again, Yuuki only afterwards told zero that kaname had saved her life. Ofcourse he still, atacked kaname and it has to do with his hate. But there were other reasons as well. If you look at the pictures, zero is still wearing the bandage. The attack on his family couldn't have been long ago. If he's not even healed physically, then how would he have healed mentally? Also, in 'attachment', zero recalls this moment in his memories. He himself didn't even know why he attacked kaname. One option was because kaname was a pb (as you said, one was because of kanames and yuuki's band (it was quite obvious from the beginning yuuki was in love with him), his third thought he never finishes. I'm not saying he did nothing wrong, cause he did stab kaname, but it was only afterwards that yuuki told him that kaname was kind. After that, he kept his calm.

-Also, this point was about kaname. It's not because he treated kaname as other vampires, that it's the same with yuuki. There's quite a diffrence between his relation with kaname, and his relation with yuuki. Here we are comparing with other vamps

- again, we're back at that one moment. I already agreed that in that moment he was showing his hating-side more.(though he kissed!!!her). I believe that 1. the circumstances should also be accounted in, hate wasn't the only reason, 2. again, one moment has consequences for a relation, but it doesn't define that realation.

- The zeki relation is changing. That is my entire point.

- chapter 47, still that one moment
- chapter 71, Indeed it,s what yuuki says. Do we hear zero say anything? no. Yuuki is making assumptions, Zer gives no comment.
- chapter 12: i've already commented about that above

- Why is his caring attitude no proof? What else could be a proof?If he hated her more he would attack her (but I know he can't according to the rules, so we'll leave this out of it) or 2. ignore her, just go with it. He wouldn't help her.


Ah well, in that case, my opinion will be a fact for me to, i guess

Anneliezz wrote:
- You should read chapter 12 again, Yuuki only afterwards told
zero that kaname had saved her life. Ofcourse he still, atacked kaname
and it has to do with his hate. But there were other reasons as well.

still the same. He hated Kaname and all vampires in the night class even though they did nothing to him. its called generalizing.

-Also, this point was about kaname. It's not because he treated
kaname as other vampires, that it's the same with yuuki. There's quite a
diffrence between his relation with kaname, and his relation with
yuuki. Here we are comparing with other vamps

?_? Wasn't the point about Zero's hatred being greater than love for Yuki?
And I've never mentioned Kaname you did..
I've been sticking to discussing Yuki and Zero all along :/ the point of the chapter 12 example was to show how Zero generalized his hatred, and still did after that incident. Generalization is his initial reaction to his hate, he can't help it, hence the gun pointing towards an innocent Yuki.

- again, we're back at that one moment. I already agreed that in that moment
he was showing his hating-side more.(though he kissed!!!her). I believe
that 1. the circumstances should also be accounted in, hate wasn't the
only reason, 2. again, one moment has consequences for a relation, but
it doesn't define that realation.

which is why I said this previously "what he did later was irrelevant, in my opinion. The damage was
done when he pointed his gun at her." He did something extremely offensive and even life threatening, that Kaname recognized and said he will never forgive him for doing so.It was what he did at that moment that defines it, even Yuki I believe knew this. She knew there was no point talking to him again, she knew it will be difficult to put things back the way it was. It doesn't matter what Zero's reasons are, his actions have spoken and it affected Yuki.
chapter 71 example was as it was: Yuki doing ALL the effort to make amends with him while he stares blankly into space. She's the one who wants it back, he never made a comment about it. So what does this say about his interest?

- The zeki relation is changing. That is my entire point.

and its not changing towards romance, its reverting to an earlier primitive form called Friendship, starting from the point where Yuki pats Zero to sleep again because his nightmares are haunting his living day lights, or she gives him a bath because he can't do it himself.

- Why is his caring attitude no proof? What else could be a proof?If
he hated her more he would attack her (but I know he can't according to
the rules, so we'll leave this out of it) or 2. ignore her, just go
with it. He wouldn't help her.

of course not, since Yuki also can't help but be concerned about him, its a hobby that was difficult to break for four years. Aido cares for Yuki, but does that mean he loves her, no.

I believe Zero is right for her. He said himself, he'll never betray Yuuki. Even though she's a vampire and "the human Yuuki is gone", I feel that Zero wants her still and deep inside, Yuuki wants him too. Sure, Zero hates vampires; maybe Yuuki's an exception?

Kaname...I'm not sure. Before, it seemed all he wanted was Yuuki, that he waited so long for her to return to her vampire self. From the last chapters though, it seems like Kaname is going to betray Yuuki in hopes to eliminate all the purebloods. I think it was a game to him. But I'm not sure.

I respect both sides though. This was just my opinion.