Who is best for Yuuki? Kaname or Zero?

First topic message reminder :

Who best fits Yuuki? Who is made for her? Zero Or Kaname? And why?



OR




I know both are but what about what Yuuki needs?

From Anneliez:

Okey, bringing this up one last time
- Yes , you did bring kaname in the discussion. You brought up chapter 12.
- Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.
- Zero's never been one to talk a lot. He never said he loved yuuki in the first arc until the end. Does that mean he didn't , no. It says nothing about his interest or about him. Yuuki's the only one who's saying things. And she's making assumptions
- Can you look into the future. I think not, so you don't know where their relation is heading to.
- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough, the only thing that could convince you, I think, is him saying that he still loves her. Well he won't,at least for now, the situation is too complicated right now
- My point about the diffrence between defining and having consequences, apparebtly you don't believe it eiher.
- latest chapter: still hasn't been able to pull the trigger (sorry I just had to add this one :p)

Kaname gave his blood to Zero . Helped Zero to temporary stabilize his fall to Level E . Protected Zero to be accused as the one who killed Shizuka . ( Well , here you can argue Kaname was just covering for himself . But if Kaname wanted , he could use this as an excuse to get rid of Zero forever . ) If I use the same argument I can say Kaname loves Zero . But in reality , you can't say Kaname loves Zero because of his actions . When it's known their hate is mutual . The story is clear of making Kaname and Zero antagonists .

So generalizations could be danguerous in some circunstances .

You are right to say Zero loves Yuuki . The thing is , his pride and his hate for vampires ( specially purebloods ) is greater than his desire to confess to Yuuki his real feelings . For Zero to accept at last his love for Yuuki and confess his true feelings for Yuuki . He will needs to change a lot of his actual values and conceptions . Has to open himself to her . Not easy for him to do . As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

mariangie wrote:

From Anneliez:

Okey, bringing this up one last time
- Yes , you did bring kaname in the discussion. You brought up chapter 12.
- Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.
- Zero's never been one to talk a lot. He never said he loved yuuki in the first arc until the end. Does that mean he didn't , no. It says nothing about his interest or about him. Yuuki's the only one who's saying things. And she's making assumptions
- Can you look into the future. I think not, so you don't know where their relation is heading to.
- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough, the only thing that could convince you, I think, is him saying that he still loves her. Well he won't,at least for now, the situation is too complicated right now
- My point about the diffrence between defining and having consequences, apparebtly you don't believe it eiher.
- latest chapter: still hasn't been able to pull the trigger (sorry I just had to add this one :p)

Kaname gave his blood to Zero . Helped Zero to temporary stabilize his fall to Level E . Protected Zero to be accused as the one who killed Shizuka . ( Well , here you can argue Kaname was just covering for himself . But if Kaname wanted , he could use this as an excuse to get rid of Zero forever . ) If I use the same argument I can say Kaname loves Zero . But in reality , you can't say Kaname loves Zero because of his actions . When it's known their hate is mutual . The story is clear of making Kaname and Zero antagonists .

So generalizations could be danguerous in some circunstances .

You are right to say Zero loves Yuuki . The thing is , his pride and his hate for vampires ( specially purebloods ) is greater than his desire to confess to Yuuki his real feelings . For Zero to accept at last his love for Yuuki and confess his true feelings for Yuuki . He will needs to change a lot of his actual values and conceptions . Has to open himself to her . Not easy for him to do . As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

Wonderfully said Maria! Excellent logic!

[quote="Anneliezz"]

- latest chapter: still hasn't been able to pull the trigger (sorry I just had to add this one :p)

Now that's a real arguement, sorry, don't take this as I am making fun or anything, but okay now since you mentioned it, he has literally dazzled us with that gun. Few more chapters and he is going to use it to threat the passing flies

Despite the tease and the laughter, seriously Yuuki should threat him with Artemis once or a while; why she does not have the same right?

He did the same with his threat to kill all purebloods, haha, and now we are chasing Kaname..
Kaname should get Yuuki, he is far more serious in his promises LOL.

Okay truce, totally off topic but as you so I just had to add this one:

The question here is "Does Zero love Yuuki more than he hates Purebloods?" (Well, the real question is who is best for Yuuki, but....)

For Zero to accept at last his love for Yuuki and confess his true feelings for Yuuki. He will needs to change a lot of his actual values and conceptions. Has to open himself to her . Not easy for him to do. As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker (I love that term.)

For any Zeki romanace, Yuuki will have to be the one to confess feelings.

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki] have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

Like Anneliez said: Zero never shot the gun. It is not yet clear if Zero still hates Purebloods more than his love for Yuuki. In fact in the latest chapter, he actually lowered gun of his own volition when Sara, another pureblood, passed by. He is improving slowly. The old Zero would have threatened Sara with the gun also (re: chapter 46 when he threatened both Yuuki and Kaname with the gun when Kaname walked in on a gun-aimed-at-yuuki scene)

(I brought this up in another thread: sweetsolace thinks that Zero didn't want to make the already suspicious Sara become more suspicious.)

He probably still hates purebloods though.

(Yes Juliet, even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me...Us normal human girls should run away from both Zero and Kaname if either confess love to us, and as said elsewhere VK has different rules from our reality)

P.S. I do think a gun is more dangerous than a verbal threat, but both are things a real boyfriend/spouse should NOT do.

...As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

About blood tasting showing love:

in Chapter 49 (mangareader net page 33) and 51 (mr page 29) Kaname says something twice: He says that only the blood of a loved one quenches thirst. I trust Kaname's words more than any other character because I've seen that he lies the least. The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

What Zero tasted in Yuuki's blood in chapter 46(where he kisses Yuuki and the last time he tasted her blood):

According to Kaname in chapter 49 Manga reader page 17, Yuuki is half-in-love with Zero. I am not arguing that this supports Yuuki being in love with Zero in chapter 75 but the last time Kaname had some of Yuuki's blood before chap 49 was when Kaname transformed her into a vampire (chapter 35). Which means that Yuuki's half love for Zero could be tasted in chapter 46, when Zero bit Yuuki. I'm assuming her blood tasted better to Zero then as compared to the earlier Zeki bites. He let Yuuki go to Kaname, not because he thought she had no feelings for him (Zero), but because at that point in time he did hate purebloods more than he loved Yuuki. In fact, Zero kissed her (the first and only time) only after he tasted her blood.


Zero should have doubts to how Yuuki sees him now (chapter 75), but that's because he expressed to her that he wants all purebloods dead and Yuuki is a pureblood. Does Yuuki see through Zero's routine? Yes, she called his bluff in Chapter 75 by daring him to pull the trigger to shoot her and calling him the kindest she knows (page 34-35 witless fool translation)

For Zeki to happen, I still say its Yuuki's move. I think they have a real chance.

(Also, Zero won't shoot Yuuki because of Yuuki's blood bond with Zero: I reference the Takuma/Sara relationship. And before I forget, Zero's reason for living is Yuuki. He wouldn't shoot her without having planned to be a suicide.)

Edit: Juliet, you pointed out, in a different thread, a chapter 51 page showing Yuuki struggling within herself between drinking all of Kaname's blood and not doing that. You gave that page as an example of a different kind of love from thirst-quenching love. I never responded. I actually see that page as an example of Yuuki having a Rido-like obesession with Kaname: lust, not love. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

caela wrote:The question here is "Does Zero love Yuuki more than he hates Purebloods?" (Well, the real question is who is best for Yuuki, but....)

For Zero to accept at last his love for Yuuki and confess his true feelings for Yuuki. He will needs to change a lot of his actual values and conceptions. Has to open himself to her . Not easy for him to do. As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker (I love that term.)

For any Zeki romanace, Yuuki will have to be the one to confess feelings.

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki] have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

Like Anneliez said: Zero never shot the gun. It is not yet clear if Zero still hates Purebloods more than his love for Yuuki. In fact in the latest chapter, he actually lowered gun of his own volition when Sara, another pureblood, passed by. He is improving slowly. The old Zero would have threatened Sara with the gun also (re: chapter 46 when he threatened both Yuuki and Kaname with the gun when Kaname walked in on a gun-aimed-at-yuuki scene)

(I brought this up in another thread: sweetsolace thinks that Zero didn't want to make the already suspicious Sara become more suspicious.)

He probably still hates purebloods though.

(Yes Juliet, even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me...Us normal human girls should run away from both Zero and Kaname if either confess love to us, and as said elsewhere VK has different rules from our reality)

P.S. I do think a gun is more dangerous than a verbal threat, but both are things a real boyfriend/spouse should NOT do.

...As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

About blood tasting showing love:

in Chapter 49 (mangareader net page 33) and 51 (mr page 29) Kaname says something twice: He says that only the blood of a loved one quenches thirst. I trust Kaname's words more than any other character because I've seen that he lies the least. The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

What Zero tasted in Yuuki's blood in chapter 46(where he kisses Yuuki and the last time he tasted her blood):

According to Kaname in chapter 49 Manga reader page 17, Yuuki is half-in-love with Zero. I am not arguing that this supports Yuuki being in love with Zero in chapter 75 but the last time Kaname had some of Yuuki's blood before chap 49 was when Kaname transformed her into a vampire (chapter 35). Which means that Yuuki's half love for Zero could be tasted in chapter 46, when Zero bit Yuuki. I'm assuming her blood tasted better to Zero then as compared to the earlier Zeki bites. He let Yuuki go to Kaname, not because he thought she had no feelings for him (Zero), but because at that point in time he did hate purebloods more than he loved Yuuki. In fact, Zero kissed her (the first and only time) only after he tasted her blood.


Zero should have doubts to how Yuuki sees him now (chapter 75), but that's because he expressed to her that he wants all purebloods dead and Yuuki is a pureblood. Does Yuuki see through Zero's routine? Yes, she called his bluff in Chapter 75 by daring him to pull the trigger to shoot her and calling him the kindest she knows (page 34-35 witless fool translation)

For Zeki to happen, I still say its Yuuki's move. I think they have a real chance.

(Also, Zero won't shoot Yuuki because of Yuuki's blood bond with Zero: I reference the Takuma/Sara relationship. And before I forget, Zero's reason for living is Yuuki. He wouldn't shoot her without having planned to be a suicide.)

Edit: Juliet, you pointed out, in a different thread, a chapter 51 page showing Yuuki struggling within herself between drinking all of Kaname's blood and not doing that. You gave that page as an example of a different kind of love from thirst-quenching love. I never responded. I actually see that page as an example of Yuuki having a Rido-like obesession with Kaname: lust, not love. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Awesomely put together Caela! I completely agree with you!

Despite the tease and the laughter, seriously Yuuki should threat him with Artemis once or a while; why she does not have the same right?

Haha cant help but comment on this.

She cant bring out Artemis. Because then it might just bring out Zero's M tendencies and he'll get real excited >.< He's probably always bringing out that gun so Yuuki would bring out her weapon too >.< Bad bad Zero

@anneliezz

- Yes , you did bring kaname in the discussion. You brought up chapter 12.

the point of the chapter 12 example was to show how Zero generalized his hatred, and still did after that incident.
it had Kaname in it but I don't think my intention was to bring him up. Anyways..

- Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.
- Zero's never been one to talk a lot. He never said he loved yuuki in the first arc until the end. Does that mean he didn't , no. It says nothing about his interest or about him. Yuuki's the only one who's saying things. And she's making assumptions

again I showed example he was generalizing to show relation to how he might act in the future, but this doesnt mean it has to be accurate because events happen and it might influence him to think otherwise.

- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough, the only thing that could convince you, I think, is him saying that he still loves her. Well he won't,at least for now, the situation is too complicated right now

no, because Zero doesn't talk much nor does his face hence what is convincing? he could be doing that out of something else, which also makes sense, but of course again we are not here to deny that he still cares.

I don't think we'll agree on this point, so what abaut a peaceful truce (? is that even how you write it? sorry off topic)
intil the manga prooves one of us wrong?

of course.

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on
looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki]
have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname
there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on
you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from
the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

neither option really offers unbiased opinion. so let me offer one. she went for his neck because she's hungry. Zero is Food and he's offering a small piece of himself when he can offer more, why go for the bite size when she can take bigger portions? A hungry girl offered a free meal shouldn't refuse, or in this case, be polite in her servings.

The old Zero would have threatened Sara with the gun also (re: chapter
46 when he threatened both Yuuki and Kaname with the gun when Kaname
walked in on a gun-aimed-at-yuuki scene)

(I brought this up in
another thread: sweetsolace thinks that Zero didn't want to make the
already suspicious Sara become more suspicious.)

why not? and why should this be an improvement when not a moment ago he had pointed a gun to Yuki who did nothing but make a simple comment? if anything he got worst as simple compliments was enough to irritate him.
but ofc knowing zero and as ive said its just a zero trait, a repeat of zero trait in the first arc where he also pointed to Ruka just for saying something. in short there's still a bud in his mind generalizing his hate to all, and he cant make that distinction yet.

The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This
chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the
man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just
before biting Zero.

of course she would be quenched, she says herself she's been holding back her thirst and we all saw she couldn't tolerate the tablets. She would be abnormal if she's not quenched by blood. She also knows she only has to take a little to be satisfied. She knows the consequences of walking around and being hungry, and the consequence is being able to bite a human, aka Yori.

Zero should have doubts to how Yuuki sees him now (chapter 75),

oh? how? does it show from his bland apathetic expression or his actions?

For Zeki to happen, I still say its Yuuki's move. I think they have a real chance.

does she make a move? does Zero make a move? check the manga and see if its happening. the only thing going for them now is the blood attachment even that is questionable in some ways

Despite the tease and the laughter, seriously Yuuki
should threat him with Artemis once or a while; why she does not have
the same right?

Haha cant help but comment on this.

She
cant bring out Artemis. Because then it might just bring out Zero's M
tendencies and he'll get real excited >.< He's probably always
bringing out that gun so Yuuki would bring out her weapon too >.<
Bad bad Zero

right poor Yuki she is always threatened as if being a pureblood is her fault now. And of course Zero should be forgiven because his hatred is naturally-occuring--Yuki is right to be more understanding to someone like Zero. she is the only one who can. LOL
though the idea of yuki taking out artemis is hilarious i want to see her "point" it to him if he starts pointing his gun to her too, LOL, lets see what happens.....

_Sweetsolace

_Caela(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on
looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki]
have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname
there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on
you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from
the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

neither option really offers unbiased opinion. so let me offer one. she went for his neck because she's hungry. Zero is Food and he's offering a small piece of himself when he can offer more, why go for the bite size when she can take bigger portions? A hungry girl offered a free meal shouldn't refuse, or in this case, be polite in her servings.

It might be just me, but I would prefer it if my food didn't have a face.

second bold area: If she was so hungry, the opposite argument could be made: why go for the neck if you can already see blood flowing from his wrist and you are starved for blood?

The main point of the thread is who is better for Yuuki. I feel that question has a loaded assumption: you should be in love with someone who is good for you. I think all three members of the love triangle have serious flaws and any combination of them are bad combinations because of Yuuki's weaknesses, Kaname's extreme secrecy and Zero's pureblood hatred (ironic because he is practically a pureblood himself: I hope he doesn't bite a human anytime soon).

Hopefully, all three characters grow before endgame.

Also, romantic love has an illogical element: I call it lust. Sometimes people just choose the hotter choice, not the smarter choice. So, this thread won't be doing much to figure out the love triangle endgame.

Well, on to Zero's major flaw:

Chapter 46 has Zero asking the pureblooded Yuuki: (paraphrase) Are you rid of all your worries and fears [now that you are a vampire]?

She says yes and Zero responds (paraphrase): Me too, I'm fine even if you are no longer next to me. [then he pushes her body from their hug position to away from his body]

Zero did not abandon Yuuki in chapter 46, first, he indirectly asked her if she needed him, Zero. If she had said no, I still have worries and fears, then he would have stayed by her side, even though she is a pureblood. He would have made an exception for his pureblood hatred, and he would have made that exception for her.

Yes, he hates purebloods and that is a major flaw. But even his flaw has cracks.

sweetsolace wrote:@anneliezz

- Yes , you did bring kaname in the discussion. You brought up chapter 12.

the point of the chapter 12 example was to show how Zero generalized his hatred, and still did after that incident.
it had Kaname in it but I don't think my intention was to bring him up. Anyways..

- Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.
- Zero's never been one to talk a lot. He never said he loved yuuki in the first arc until the end. Does that mean he didn't , no. It says nothing about his interest or about him. Yuuki's the only one who's saying things. And she's making assumptions

again I showed example he was generalizing to show relation to how he might act in the future, but this doesnt mean it has to be accurate because events happen and it might influence him to think otherwise.

- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough, the only thing that could convince you, I think, is him saying that he still loves her. Well he won't,at least for now, the situation is too complicated right now

no, because Zero doesn't talk much nor does his face hence what is convincing? he could be doing that out of something else, which also makes sense, but of course again we are not here to deny that he still cares.

I don't think we'll agree on this point, so what abaut a peaceful truce (? is that even how you write it? sorry off topic)
intil the manga prooves one of us wrong?

of course.

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on
looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki]
have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname
there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on
you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from
the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

neither option really offers unbiased opinion. so let me offer one. she went for his neck because she's hungry. Zero is Food and he's offering a small piece of himself when he can offer more, why go for the bite size when she can take bigger portions? A hungry girl offered a free meal shouldn't refuse, or in this case, be polite in her servings.

The old Zero would have threatened Sara with the gun also (re: chapter
46 when he threatened both Yuuki and Kaname with the gun when Kaname
walked in on a gun-aimed-at-yuuki scene)

(I brought this up in
another thread: sweetsolace thinks that Zero didn't want to make the
already suspicious Sara become more suspicious.)

why not? and why should this be an improvement when not a moment ago he had pointed a gun to Yuki who did nothing but make a simple comment? if anything he got worst as simple compliments was enough to irritate him.
but ofc knowing zero and as ive said its just a zero trait, a repeat of zero trait in the first arc where he also pointed to Ruka just for saying something. in short there's still a bud in his mind generalizing his hate to all, and he cant make that distinction yet.

The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This
chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the
man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just
before biting Zero.

of course she would be quenched, she says herself she's been holding back her thirst and we all saw she couldn't tolerate the tablets. She would be abnormal if she's not quenched by blood. She also knows she only has to take a little to be satisfied. She knows the consequences of walking around and being hungry, and the consequence is being able to bite a human, aka Yori.

Zero should have doubts to how Yuuki sees him now (chapter 75),

oh? how? does it show from his bland apathetic expression or his actions?

For Zeki to happen, I still say its Yuuki's move. I think they have a real chance.

does she make a move? does Zero make a move? check the manga and see if its happening. the only thing going for them now is the blood attachment even that is questionable in some ways

Despite the tease and the laughter, seriously Yuuki
should threat him with Artemis once or a while; why she does not have
the same right?

Haha cant help but comment on this.

She
cant bring out Artemis. Because then it might just bring out Zero's M
tendencies and he'll get real excited >.< He's probably always
bringing out that gun so Yuuki would bring out her weapon too >.<
Bad bad Zero

right poor Yuki she is always threatened as if being a pureblood is her fault now. And of course Zero should be forgiven because his hatred is naturally-occuring--Yuki is right to be more understanding to someone like Zero. she is the only one who can. LOL
though the idea of yuki taking out artemis is hilarious i want to see her "point" it to him if he starts pointing his gun to her too, LOL, lets see what happens.....

Awesome post Sweet! I totally agree!

caela wrote:The question here is "Does Zero love Yuuki more than he hates Purebloods?" (Well, the real question is who is best for Yuuki, but....)

For Zero to accept at last his love for Yuuki and confess his true feelings for Yuuki. He will needs to change a lot of his actual values and conceptions. Has to open himself to her . Not easy for him to do. As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker (I love that term.)

For any Zeki romanace, Yuuki will have to be the one to confess feelings.

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki] have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

Like Anneliez said: Zero never shot the gun. It is not yet clear if Zero still hates Purebloods more than his love for Yuuki. In fact in the latest chapter, he actually lowered gun of his own volition when Sara, another pureblood, passed by. He is improving slowly. The old Zero would have threatened Sara with the gun also (re: chapter 46 when he threatened both Yuuki and Kaname with the gun when Kaname walked in on a gun-aimed-at-yuuki scene)

(I brought this up in another thread: sweetsolace thinks that Zero didn't want to make the already suspicious Sara become more suspicious.)

He probably still hates purebloods though.

(Yes Juliet, even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me...Us normal human girls should run away from both Zero and Kaname if either confess love to us, and as said elsewhere VK has different rules from our reality)

P.S. I do think a gun is more dangerous than a verbal threat, but both are things a real boyfriend/spouse should NOT do.

...As he has many doubts about how Yuuki see him . Because he has perceived by her blood in the past the one she loved is Kaname .

From Mariangie

About blood tasting showing love:

in Chapter 49 (mangareader net page 33) and 51 (mr page 29) Kaname says something twice: He says that only the blood of a loved one quenches thirst. I trust Kaname's words more than any other character because I've seen that he lies the least. The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

What Zero tasted in Yuuki's blood in chapter 46(where he kisses Yuuki and the last time he tasted her blood):

According to Kaname in chapter 49 Manga reader page 17, Yuuki is half-in-love with Zero. I am not arguing that this supports Yuuki being in love with Zero in chapter 75 but the last time Kaname had some of Yuuki's blood before chap 49 was when Kaname transformed her into a vampire (chapter 35). Which means that Yuuki's half love for Zero could be tasted in chapter 46, when Zero bit Yuuki. I'm assuming her blood tasted better to Zero then as compared to the earlier Zeki bites. He let Yuuki go to Kaname, not because he thought she had no feelings for him (Zero), but because at that point in time he did hate purebloods more than he loved Yuuki. In fact, Zero kissed her (the first and only time) only after he tasted her blood.


Zero should have doubts to how Yuuki sees him now (chapter 75), but that's because he expressed to her that he wants all purebloods dead and Yuuki is a pureblood. Does Yuuki see through Zero's routine? Yes, she called his bluff in Chapter 75 by daring him to pull the trigger to shoot her and calling him the kindest she knows (page 34-35 witless fool translation)

For Zeki to happen, I still say its Yuuki's move. I think they have a real chance.

(Also, Zero won't shoot Yuuki because of Yuuki's blood bond with Zero: I reference the Takuma/Sara relationship. And before I forget, Zero's reason for living is Yuuki. He wouldn't shoot her without having planned to be a suicide.)

Edit: Juliet, you pointed out, in a different thread, a chapter 51 page showing Yuuki struggling within herself between drinking all of Kaname's blood and not doing that. You gave that page as an example of a different kind of love from thirst-quenching love. I never responded. I actually see that page as an example of Yuuki having a Rido-like obesession with Kaname: lust, not love. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

LOL, Caela you are trying to cover us all there?(tough work, i guess), okay to answer mine

@ about Rido, Rido's love -lust about Yuuri lasted too long - imagine Yuuri was 3.000 years old when she died. Now if you compare that lust with Yuuki take also that into consideration, desire yes, love (for me also), lust (certainly) but we also have duration!.. But if you feel like developping make a trouble and write it at the equivalent topic..if not is okay.

@ about these two guys in reality, I agree, of course neither is healthy to hear..besides that..taking it more seriously the whole gun arguement I was protesting with the easiness and the regular use of it;

Zero did to Yuuki but also to Maria (so can that perceived as a love sign as well?) No, its not that he uses his gun to make a love point in neither or them (because apparently people would get confused) but he is using it too easily...and it's not fair, he is a guy after all. LOL anyway, that's a habit he needs to kick...

caela wrote:
It might be just me, but I would prefer it if my food didn't have a face.

second
bold area: If she was so hungry, the opposite argument could be made:
why go for the neck if you can already see blood flowing from his wrist
and you are starved for blood?

Zero being food was a metaphor to show how his neck is the big serving and his wrist was the small one. he offered his wrist as the small serving, in a way it was an open welcoming gesture telling her "I am your Food. Eat me". It didn't matter where she bit him, what mattered was his offering to her starving self. like I said she has to go for the bigger one. She is starving after all. But manners made her stop and she says her grace, "Zero, can I take your blood?"
obviously because the neck has the most abundant blood rich artery and the most common site for biting. and the wrist has small one.

I don't see a hungry vampire going for the wrist, even if its bleeding. lol in vampire references the wrist is most commonly used for bloodletting, feeding inexperienced vampires for the first time (yuki isnt one), site for taking blood in turning humans to vampires, among others, but its rarely used for feeding experienced hungry vampires. nor does a bleeding wrist become a choice when the neck is very much accessible. its like telling a thirsty person to drink via straw when he wants to take gulps of water.

and another thing is, the neck is not necessarily an intimate spot. Kaname also let Zero specifically get blood on his neck, if he considered that intimate then that says something. And there's Shizuka biting Zero on the neck. and lots of other vampires who bite via neck, including LEVEL Es.

sweetsolace wrote:

caela wrote:
It might be just me, but I would prefer it if my food didn't have a face.

second
bold area: If she was so hungry, the opposite argument could be made:
why go for the neck if you can already see blood flowing from his wrist
and you are starved for blood?

Zero being food was a metaphor to show how his neck is the big serving and his wrist was the small one. he offered his wrist as the small serving, in a way it was an open welcoming gesture telling her "I am your Food. Eat me". It didn't matter where she bit him, what mattered was his offering to her starving self. like I said she has to go for the bigger one. She is starving after all. But manners made her stop and she says her grace, "Zero, can I take your blood?"
obviously because the neck has the most abundant blood rich artery and the most common site for biting. and the wrist has small one.

I don't see a hungry vampire going for the wrist, even if its bleeding. lol in vampire references the wrist is most commonly used for bloodletting, feeding inexperienced vampires for the first time (yuki isnt one), site for taking blood in turning humans to vampires, among others, but its rarely used for feeding experienced hungry vampires. nor does a bleeding wrist become a choice when the neck is very much accessible. its like telling a thirsty person to drink via straw when he wants to take gulps of water.

and another thing is, the neck is not necessarily an intimate spot. Kaname also let Zero specifically get blood on his neck, if he considered that intimate then that says something. And there's Shizuka biting Zero on the neck. and lots of other vampires who bite via neck, including LEVEL Es.

Indeed. So very true Sweet!

Annelliez wrote: - Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.

Really? Chapter 75 >>>

Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
Zero: Yes, eventually
Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
Zero: All
[Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

She specifically asks for his wish! Not what the other hunters are planning/wishing … Yes this is really an improvement!

He has pointed his gun FOR A THIRD TIME and what for? Cuz she said that he isn’t like the others and has a good heart!!!!!!! AKA FOR NOTHING!
While in the same chapter Hino has put Kaname saying that he was willing to sacrifice his life for HER and he was just a child!

OH! Yes Zero deserves to have her love

- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough

Which one of his actions? When he pointed his gun through a door? When he pointed his gun from afar? Or now that he has put his gun on her temple???

Yes he is improving … the distance between his gun and Yuuki is “zero” NOW!

- latest chapter: still hasn't been able to pull the trigger (sorry I just had to add this one :p)

WOW! And you think that this is the proof of his LOVE?! He didn’t kill her thus he loves her?!

mariangie wrote: Kaname gave his blood to Zero . Helped Zero to temporary stabilize his fall to Level E . Protected Zero to be accused as the one who killed Shizuka . ( Well , here you can argue Kaname was just covering for himself . But if Kaname wanted , he could use this as an excuse to get rid of Zero forever . ) If I use the same argument I can say Kaname loves Zero . But in reality , you can't say Kaname loves Zero because of his actions .

Exactly Maria! You took the words out of my mouth!

juliet wrote: he has literally dazzled us with that gun. Few more chapters and he is going to use it to threat the passing flies

… apparently there are no more flies around the academy so he has to point his gun to harmless girls >> Maria, Yuuki while he is too scared of Sara haha …
I’ll bet if you take the BR you’ll emasculate him ROFLMAO …

caela wrote: In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker

Yes he’s such a gentleman that he can’t stop pointing his gun to a girl and moreover for NOTHING! If that’s your definition of a gentleman I have nothing more to add.

Secondly did or did he not make a pass on Yuuki when he knew that she was Kaname’s fiancée/lover and ready to leave with that man?
So your argument it’s proved wrong from the manga itself …

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki] have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

According to your logic then Zero is also IN LOVE with Kaname cuz he bit him on his neck! Yes or no?
Why he didn’t go for his hand, his foot or whateva haha …

sweetsolace wrote: obviously because the neck has the most abundant blood rich artery and the most common site for biting. and the wrist has small one.

I don't see a hungry vampire going for the wrist, even if its bleeding.

its like telling a thirsty person to drink via straw when he wants to take gulps of water.

Exactly sweet!

I think though that you have dismissed a lot and kept only the outcome which you think it suits you … Have you read these lines??? >>>

1. “I’m weak and I can’t take away the thing I WANT with my own fangs … the thing I WANT >>> I can’t BECAUSE the person I can take it away from isn’t by my side right now …” (chapter 73)
>>> and she visualizes herself into Kaname’s arms! So there is no doubt whose blood she WANTED to take …

2. “At that moment I bit into Zero’s neck … all of a sudden my head cooled down. I had just used my fangs to bite a person whom I had NEVER intended to WISH FOR HIS BLOOD.” (chapter 74)

So she was hungry (a lot hungry as the scene with Yori indicates) and she WANTED Kaname’s blood (1) BUT since she couldn’t have the blood that she desired she got Zero’s offer >>> i.e. from a person that she NEVER INTENDED TO WISH! (2)

To me Zero is clearly a substitute there, like Ruka was for Kaname when he couldn’t have Yuuki’s blood. If you’re satisfied with that …

even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me..

What you’re trying to compare here is totally not comparable and the very proof is that in Kaname’s case Yuuki didn’t feel threaten … in fact she was relieved and as she said recently (chapter 73) >>> “With those words Kaname allowed me to stay by his side” …
She felt like Kaname’s words unburden her cuz she had said such SELFISHLY and TERRIBLE things (her words about “the one part of her heart” not mine)

Whereas in Zero’s case she believed that he wants to be enemies and she was very aggrieved from his act (pointing his gun) and from his words …

At least from Yuuki’s perspective the two incidents are totally different lol.

P.S. I do think a gun is more dangerous than a verbal threat, but both are things a real boyfriend/spouse should NOT do.

Well even in real life a boyfriend could say that I can’t live with out you thus and I prefer death and it depends from the tone and the time how you can perceive these words … I mean it could be an exaggeration to portrait his passion.
On the other hand if your boyfriend or a friend points his gun to you and in serious tone says we are enemies and I’ll kill you next time I don’t think that there is a way to perceive it as a sign of LOVE!

The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

Then you have missed all the chapters from when Yuuki bitten Kaname WITH HER FANGS in chapter 52 …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-17/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… till she felt thirst for the first time in chapter 71!
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/17

Viz after months that she took blood from Kaname …
In between did you ever see any thirst fit from Yuuki? And I mean after chapter 52 … No! Then your argument above isn’t only baseless but also twisting the FACTS…

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

Haha … then she probably Yuuki saw Yori as a man too cuz not only she looked at her but also she pinned her on the ground and moreover she was on top of her …

Juliet, you pointed out, in a different thread, a chapter 51 page showing Yuuki struggling within herself between drinking all of Kaname's blood and not doing that. You gave that page as an example of a different kind of love from thirst-quenching love. I never responded. I actually see that page as an example of Yuuki having a Rido-like obesession with Kaname: lust, not love. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Then Zero has a Rido-like obsession with Yuuki cuz he expressed the same wish!
So according to this logic Zero should be quenched only with just a bit of her blood but he wasn’t … on the contrary he said >>>

“I only desired your blood Yuuki … I want it so much that is unbearable to the point that unless I drank from you UNTIL THE VERY LIMITS OF YOUR LIFE I WOULDN’T BE SATISFIED”
So who is expressing LOVE/PASSION … Yuuki who will be fine with just a bit of blood from a person she NEVER INTENDED to wish from OR Zero who wants to devour her life in order to be satisfied huh???

Make your choice …

The main point of the thread is who is better for Yuuki. I feel that question has a loaded assumption: you should be in love with someone who is good for you.

The point is Yuuki should be with the ONE she is IN LOVE with >>> that’s the good!
Who is best for Yuuki according to whom? For me? For you? For Zero? For Kaname? No … apparently for her! She could be in love with the greatest scum but can’t leave without him … For me it could be wrong but for her no.

So the answer in the question “who is best for Yuuki” is only one … the best is the one she IS IN LOVE WITH …

Zero's pureblood hatred (ironic because he is practically a pureblood himself: I hope he doesn't bite a human anytime soon).

Who is a PB? Zero? From when? Where is that chapter???? O_o

Zero did not abandon Yuuki in chapter 46, first, he indirectly asked her if she needed him, Zero. If she had said no, I still have worries and fears, then he would have stayed by her side, even though she is a pureblood. He would have made an exception for his pureblood hatred, and he would have made that exception for her.

He can’t make an exception neither currently >>>

Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
Zero: Yes, eventually
Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
Zero: All
[Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

Zero keeps proving you wrong …

caela wrote:The question here is "Does Zero love Yuuki more than he hates Purebloods?" (Well, the real question is who is best for Yuuki, but....

Yes thats a big question. Zero hates purebloods(mostly the vampire nature) yet he cares for yuuki, BUT yuuki is by nature a pureblood.

I think Zero's feelings with Yuuki have been mixed since he found out she was a pureblood. Maybe he doesnt even know now what he truely feels. Could explain the continual swing between, one minute showing some kindness, to the next pointing a gun at her. To me it seems like he himself is confused over what he really feels.

caela wrote:About blood tasting showing love:

in Chapter 49 (mangareader net page 33) and 51 (mr page 29) Kaname says something twice: He says that only the blood of a loved one quenches thirst. I trust Kaname's words more than any other character because I've seen that he lies the least. The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

What Zero tasted in Yuuki's blood in chapter 46(where he kisses Yuuki and the last time he tasted her blood):

Yuuki looked very contented when she had kaname's blood in the past. Also Yuuki does have a part(part being the operative word here) of her heart attached to Zero. So after feeding so much from Kaname(she feed off him constantly for a year taking quiet alot of blood at each feeding), then getting a mouthful of Zero's blood(small amount really), she has now satisfied her thirst and all parts of her heart.

Also sweet and nina give excellent cases on this subject.

sweetsolace wrote:
of course she would be quenched, she says herself she's been holding back her thirst and we all saw she couldn't tolerate the tablets. She would be abnormal if she's not quenched by blood. She also knows she only has to take a little to be satisfied. She knows the consequences of walking around and being hungry, and the consequence is being able to bite a human, aka Yori.

nina wrote:I think though that you have dismissed a lot and kept only the outcome which you think it suits you … Have you read these lines??? >>>

1. “I’m weak and I can’t take away the thing I WANT with my own fangs … the thing I WANT >>> I can’t BECAUSE the person I can take it away from isn’t by my side right now …” (chapter 73)
>>> and she visualizes herself into Kaname’s arms! So there is no doubt whose blood she WANTED to take …

2. “At that moment I bit into Zero’s neck … all of a sudden my head cooled down. I had just used my fangs to bite a person whom I had NEVER intended to WISH FOR HIS BLOOD.” (chapter 74)

So she was hungry (a lot hungry as the scene with Yori indicates) and she WANTED Kaname’s blood (1) BUT since she couldn’t have the blood that she desired she got Zero’s offer >>> i.e. from a person that she NEVER INTENDED TO WISH! (2)

To me Zero is clearly a substitute there, like Ruka was for Kaname when he couldn’t have Yuuki’s blood. If you’re satisfied with that ….

caela wrote:
Also, romantic love has an illogical element: I call it lust. Sometimes people just choose the hotter choice, not the smarter choice. So, this thread won't be doing much to figure out the love triangle endgame.

Well both Kaname and Zero are hot. I think if you met them on a street you'd give them more than a quick glance. I know i would!!!

Hmm....wouldn't the smart choice be to be with the person you love, who you have declared your feelings for constantly for most of the manga, who's blood you desire above all else and wish to devour, and also who you can spend all eternity with?

sweetsolace wrote:
and another thing is, the neck is not necessarily an intimate spot. Kaname also let Zero specifically get blood on his neck, if he considered that intimate then that says something. And there's Shizuka biting Zero on the neck. and lots of other vampires who bite via neck, including LEVEL Es.

Excellent point sweet!

I think biting via neck is a natural thing for a vampire. It's the place they naturally go to if they wish to feed. It probably does have special meaning when its mates drinking from that area but we've seen countless times in VK people biting into the neck without feelings of love and devotion.

nina wrote:

even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me..

What you’re trying to compare here is totally not comparable and the very proof is that in Kaname’s case Yuuki didn’t feel threaten … in fact she was relieved and as she said recently (chapter 73) >>> “With those words Kaname allowed me to stay by his side” …
She felt like Kaname’s words unburden her cuz she had said such SELFISHLY and TERRIBLE things (her words about “the one part of her heart” not mine)

Whereas in Zero’s case she believed that he wants to be enemies and she was very aggrieved from his act (pointing his gun) and from his words …

At least from Yuuki’s perspective the two incidents are totally different lol.

Wonderful Nina! Yuuki see's these incidents as different hence her different reactions to the events. She seems very relieved with Kaname's words unlike Zero's.

Bloodredhead wrote:

caela wrote:The question here is "Does Zero love Yuuki more than he hates Purebloods?" (Well, the real question is who is best for Yuuki, but....

Yes thats a big question. Zero hates purebloods(mostly the vampire nature) yet he cares for yuuki, BUT yuuki is by nature a pureblood.

I think Zero's feelings with Yuuki have been mixed since he found out she was a pureblood. Maybe he doesnt even know now what he truely feels. Could explain the continual swing between, one minute showing some kindness, to the next pointing a gun at her. To me it seems like he himself is confused over what he really feels.

caela wrote:About blood tasting showing love:

in Chapter 49 (mangareader net page 33) and 51 (mr page 29) Kaname says something twice: He says that only the blood of a loved one quenches thirst. I trust Kaname's words more than any other character because I've seen that he lies the least. The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

What Zero tasted in Yuuki's blood in chapter 46(where he kisses Yuuki and the last time he tasted her blood):

Yuuki looked very contented when she had kaname's blood in the past. Also Yuuki does have a part(part being the operative word here) of her heart attached to Zero. So after feeding so much from Kaname(she feed off him constantly for a year taking quiet alot of blood at each feeding), then getting a mouthful of Zero's blood(small amount really), she has now satisfied her thirst and all parts of her heart.

Also sweet and nina give excellent cases on this subject.

sweetsolace wrote:
of course she would be quenched, she says herself she's been holding back her thirst and we all saw she couldn't tolerate the tablets. She would be abnormal if she's not quenched by blood. She also knows she only has to take a little to be satisfied. She knows the consequences of walking around and being hungry, and the consequence is being able to bite a human, aka Yori.

nina wrote:I think though that you have dismissed a lot and kept only the outcome which you think it suits you … Have you read these lines??? >>>

1. “I’m weak and I can’t take away the thing I WANT with my own fangs … the thing I WANT >>> I can’t BECAUSE the person I can take it away from isn’t by my side right now …” (chapter 73)
>>> and she visualizes herself into Kaname’s arms! So there is no doubt whose blood she WANTED to take …

2. “At that moment I bit into Zero’s neck … all of a sudden my head cooled down. I had just used my fangs to bite a person whom I had NEVER intended to WISH FOR HIS BLOOD.” (chapter 74)

So she was hungry (a lot hungry as the scene with Yori indicates) and she WANTED Kaname’s blood (1) BUT since she couldn’t have the blood that she desired she got Zero’s offer >>> i.e. from a person that she NEVER INTENDED TO WISH! (2)

To me Zero is clearly a substitute there, like Ruka was for Kaname when he couldn’t have Yuuki’s blood. If you’re satisfied with that ….

caela wrote:
Also, romantic love has an illogical element: I call it lust. Sometimes people just choose the hotter choice, not the smarter choice. So, this thread won't be doing much to figure out the love triangle endgame.

Well both Kaname and Zero are hot. I think if you met them on a street you'd give them more than a quick glance. I know i would!!!

Hmm....wouldn't the smart choice be to be with the person you love, who you have declared your feelings for constantly for most of the manga, who's blood you desire above all else and wish to devour, and also who you can spend all eternity with?

sweetsolace wrote:
and another thing is, the neck is not necessarily an intimate spot. Kaname also let Zero specifically get blood on his neck, if he considered that intimate then that says something. And there's Shizuka biting Zero on the neck. and lots of other vampires who bite via neck, including LEVEL Es.

Excellent point sweet!

I think biting via neck is a natural thing for a vampire. It's the place they naturally go to if they wish to feed. It probably does have special meaning when its mates drinking from that area but we've seen countless times in VK people biting into the neck without feelings of love and devotion.

nina wrote:

even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me..

What you’re trying to compare here is totally not comparable and the very proof is that in Kaname’s case Yuuki didn’t feel threaten … in fact she was relieved and as she said recently (chapter 73) >>> “With those words Kaname allowed me to stay by his side” …
She felt like Kaname’s words unburden her cuz she had said such SELFISHLY and TERRIBLE things (her words about “the one part of her heart” not mine)

Whereas in Zero’s case she believed that he wants to be enemies and she was very aggrieved from his act (pointing his gun) and from his words …

At least from Yuuki’s perspective the two incidents are totally different lol.

Wonderful Nina! Yuuki see's these incidents as different hence her different reactions to the events. She seems very relieved with Kaname's words unlike Zero's.

Excellent posts Sweet, Nina, and Red! I totally agree!

Nina: Zero breaks glass with his mind in anger twice. once in chapter 60 (that one is questionable). The other time is http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-24/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html

Zero has the power of a pureblood: breaking glass with your mind is something we've seen with only Yuuki and Kaname. Zero also easily chopped off Kaname's hand in chapter 46.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-7/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Apparently Yuuki's blood is good for something. Also look at how Kaname was about to fight Zero: Kaname wanted close combat, while he killed the entire Vampire Counsel with long range attacks.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-8/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Kaname wanted to fight Zero as an equal.

I don't think its much of a joke that Zero probably shouldn't bite a human.

caela wrote:Nina: Zero breaks glass with his mind in anger twice. once in chapter 60 (that one is questionable). The other time is http://www.mangareader.net/104-2178-24/vampire-knight/chapter-50.html

Zero has the power of a pureblood: breaking glass with your mind is something we've seen with only Yuuki and Kaname. Zero also easily chopped off Kaname's hand in chapter 46.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-7/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Apparently Yuuki's blood is good for something. Also look at how Kaname was about to fight Zero: Kaname wanted close combat, while he killed the entire Vampire Counsel with long range attacks.

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-8/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html

Kaname wanted to fight Zero as an equal.

I don't think its much of a joke that Zero probably shouldn't bite a human.

For what I had read from your recent posts . There's something I think you need to clarify .

It's not the same Zero gaining pureblood - almost powers than Zero becoming one .

You are correct to point Zero's power level had increased exponentially . That he was show doing things only purebloods appear to do in the story . And he has the upper hand when fighting vampires ; because of his power to yield anti - vampire weapons .

Probably in a battle between a non - Kuran pureblood and Zero ; Zero could win . The interesting thing would be to see Zero fighting a pureblood with the ability to use anti - vampire weapons . Because the probability of both being even matched is good . So a combat in the future between Zero and Kaname ; both could have similar odds to win .

But for now , there's only battle shown between Zero and Kaname . Kaname appeared to have the upper hand then. As Kaname could have kill Zero even without requiring the use of an anti - vampire weapon . Or killing Zero using his own Bloody Rose for doing the job .

It's impossible to Zero to turn into a pureblood vampire . Because for definition to become a pureblood vampire ; you need to be born as one . Zero was born as a human . A human vampire hunter . There's no way for Zero to cancel the way he was born initially . But he has assimilated enough pureblood genes for gaining inmense powers no other vampire or human could get in a normal way .

For now there's no proof Zero has gained the life span , nor the regenerating healing abilities a pureblood possess . There is absolutelly no evidence Zero had become inmortal . Nor stopped aging . As appears to be the case of a pureblood or Kaien Cross . And even he had become stabilized by pureblood's blood as a Level D vampire . The risk of Zero falling to Level E is not zero yet .

I think you don't need to worry if Zero bites a human . He couldn't turn the human to vampire . If he discovers this is his new power . He will kill himself with Bloody Rose before becoming a pureblood vampire . That's will be the worst thing Zero could live . To become the same thing he hates the most : a pureblood vampire . For Zero being a vampire is hateful enough .

Zero's situation is kind off this : It's becoming god - like without becoming a god himself .

nina wrote:

Annelliez wrote: - Ofcourse Zero does the generalzing. But my belief is that
1. he has improved now that his whole life has become more stable
2. He doesn't count yuuki in.

Really? Chapter 75 >>>

Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
Zero: Yes, eventually
Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
Zero: All
[Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

She specifically asks for his wish! Not what the other hunters are planning/wishing … Yes this is really an improvement!

He has pointed his gun FOR A THIRD TIME and what for? Cuz she said that he isn’t like the others and has a good heart!!!!!!! AKA FOR NOTHING!
While in the same chapter Hino has put Kaname saying that he was willing to sacrifice his life for HER and he was just a child!

OH! Yes Zero deserves to have her love

- If you think that he could give blood to someone he hates..help someone he hates to achieve her goals..protect someone he hates....Then I won't be able to convince you. If actions aren't enough

Which one of his actions? When he pointed his gun through a door? When he pointed his gun from afar? Or now that he has put his gun on her temple???

Yes he is improving … the distance between his gun and Yuuki is “zero” NOW!

- latest chapter: still hasn't been able to pull the trigger (sorry I just had to add this one :p)

WOW! And you think that this is the proof of his LOVE?! He didn’t kill her thus he loves her?!

mariangie wrote: Kaname gave his blood to Zero . Helped Zero to temporary stabilize his fall to Level E . Protected Zero to be accused as the one who killed Shizuka . ( Well , here you can argue Kaname was just covering for himself . But if Kaname wanted , he could use this as an excuse to get rid of Zero forever . ) If I use the same argument I can say Kaname loves Zero . But in reality , you can't say Kaname loves Zero because of his actions .

Exactly Maria! You took the words out of my mouth!

juliet wrote: he has literally dazzled us with that gun. Few more chapters and he is going to use it to threat the passing flies

… apparently there are no more flies around the academy so he has to point his gun to harmless girls >> Maria, Yuuki while he is too scared of Sara haha …
I’ll bet if you take the BR you’ll emasculate him ROFLMAO …

caela wrote: In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker

Yes he’s such a gentleman that he can’t stop pointing his gun to a girl and moreover for NOTHING! If that’s your definition of a gentleman I have nothing more to add.

Secondly did or did he not make a pass on Yuuki when he knew that she was Kaname’s fiancée/lover and ready to leave with that man?
So your argument it’s proved wrong from the manga itself …

(And yes, if Zero offers you blood from his wrist and you insist on looking at his face and going for his neck, you [sorry, i mean Yuuki] have some attraction towards Zero. Yuuki is kind of cheating on Kaname there or she thinks Yume is no more. If its the first option, bad on you yuuki. If she just wanted to check on the level E thing, blood from the wrist has the same taste as blood from the neck)

According to your logic then Zero is also IN LOVE with Kaname cuz he bit him on his neck! Yes or no?
Why he didn’t go for his hand, his foot or whateva haha …

sweetsolace wrote: obviously because the neck has the most abundant blood rich artery and the most common site for biting. and the wrist has small one.

I don't see a hungry vampire going for the wrist, even if its bleeding.

its like telling a thirsty person to drink via straw when he wants to take gulps of water.

Exactly sweet!

I think though that you have dismissed a lot and kept only the outcome which you think it suits you … Have you read these lines??? >>>

1. “I’m weak and I can’t take away the thing I WANT with my own fangs … the thing I WANT >>> I can’t BECAUSE the person I can take it away from isn’t by my side right now …” (chapter 73)
>>> and she visualizes herself into Kaname’s arms! So there is no doubt whose blood she WANTED to take …

2. “At that moment I bit into Zero’s neck … all of a sudden my head cooled down. I had just used my fangs to bite a person whom I had NEVER intended to WISH FOR HIS BLOOD.” (chapter 74)

So she was hungry (a lot hungry as the scene with Yori indicates) and she WANTED Kaname’s blood (1) BUT since she couldn’t have the blood that she desired she got Zero’s offer >>> i.e. from a person that she NEVER INTENDED TO WISH! (2)

To me Zero is clearly a substitute there, like Ruka was for Kaname when he couldn’t have Yuuki’s blood. If you’re satisfied with that …

even raising a gun on someone you love is a bad sign, but its not like Kaname never said: if you leave me i'll kill you or you'll kill me..

What you’re trying to compare here is totally not comparable and the very proof is that in Kaname’s case Yuuki didn’t feel threaten … in fact she was relieved and as she said recently (chapter 73) >>> “With those words Kaname allowed me to stay by his side” …
She felt like Kaname’s words unburden her cuz she had said such SELFISHLY and TERRIBLE things (her words about “the one part of her heart” not mine)

Whereas in Zero’s case she believed that he wants to be enemies and she was very aggrieved from his act (pointing his gun) and from his words …

At least from Yuuki’s perspective the two incidents are totally different lol.

P.S. I do think a gun is more dangerous than a verbal threat, but both are things a real boyfriend/spouse should NOT do.

Well even in real life a boyfriend could say that I can’t live with out you thus and I prefer death and it depends from the tone and the time how you can perceive these words … I mean it could be an exaggeration to portrait his passion.
On the other hand if your boyfriend or a friend points his gun to you and in serious tone says we are enemies and I’ll kill you next time I don’t think that there is a way to perceive it as a sign of LOVE!

The only time I've seen Yuuki's thirst quenched was only in chapter 74, after drinking Zero's blood.

Then you have missed all the chapters from when Yuuki bitten Kaname WITH HER FANGS in chapter 52 …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-17/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… till she felt thirst for the first time in chapter 71!
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/17

Viz after months that she took blood from Kaname …
In between did you ever see any thirst fit from Yuuki? And I mean after chapter 52 … No! Then your argument above isn’t only baseless but also twisting the FACTS…

This chapter 74 bite is not just about a hunger for only blood and not the man, especially since Yuuki is showing physical interest in Zero just before biting Zero.

Haha … then she probably Yuuki saw Yori as a man too cuz not only she looked at her but also she pinned her on the ground and moreover she was on top of her …

Juliet, you pointed out, in a different thread, a chapter 51 page showing Yuuki struggling within herself between drinking all of Kaname's blood and not doing that. You gave that page as an example of a different kind of love from thirst-quenching love. I never responded. I actually see that page as an example of Yuuki having a Rido-like obesession with Kaname: lust, not love. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Then Zero has a Rido-like obsession with Yuuki cuz he expressed the same wish!
So according to this logic Zero should be quenched only with just a bit of her blood but he wasn’t … on the contrary he said >>>

“I only desired your blood Yuuki … I want it so much that is unbearable to the point that unless I drank from you UNTIL THE VERY LIMITS OF YOUR LIFE I WOULDN’T BE SATISFIED”
So who is expressing LOVE/PASSION … Yuuki who will be fine with just a bit of blood from a person she NEVER INTENDED to wish from OR Zero who wants to devour her life in order to be satisfied huh???

Make your choice …

The main point of the thread is who is better for Yuuki. I feel that question has a loaded assumption: you should be in love with someone who is good for you.

The point is Yuuki should be with the ONE she is IN LOVE with >>> that’s the good!
Who is best for Yuuki according to whom? For me? For you? For Zero? For Kaname? No … apparently for her! She could be in love with the greatest scum but can’t leave without him … For me it could be wrong but for her no.

So the answer in the question “who is best for Yuuki” is only one … the best is the one she IS IN LOVE WITH …

Zero's pureblood hatred (ironic because he is practically a pureblood himself: I hope he doesn't bite a human anytime soon).

Who is a PB? Zero? From when? Where is that chapter???? O_o

Zero did not abandon Yuuki in chapter 46, first, he indirectly asked her if she needed him, Zero. If she had said no, I still have worries and fears, then he would have stayed by her side, even though she is a pureblood. He would have made an exception for his pureblood hatred, and he would have made that exception for her.

He can’t make an exception neither currently >>>

Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
Zero: Yes, eventually
Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
Zero: All
[Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

Zero keeps proving you wrong …

BEAUTIFUL POST!!

I agree with your logic. nothing more to say there you said everything !

caela wrote:
In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker

Yes he’s such a gentleman that he can’t stop pointing his gun to a girl and moreover for NOTHING! If that’s your definition of a gentleman I have nothing more to add.

Secondly did or did he not make a pass on Yuuki when he knew that she was Kaname’s fiancée/lover and ready to leave with that man?
So your argument it’s proved wrong from the manga itself

…

Nina, thanks for giving me an honest laugh:) I would laugh more if I wasn't wrong with my argument. Either way, hilarious!

In Zero's defense, he didn't know when he would see her again. If he didn't try then, then I would have lost respect for him.

@ nina: I asked to to take a break on the discussion. I don't have much time lately and I don't intend to get into a discussion in wich I can only defend myself once a week, when there's a response from the other side every day. To get my response clearly in a very short time.: I don't believe that Zero hates Yuuki, until he would actually shoot her in stead of just threatening in very tsundere way....To me Zero is really a doggy , one barking but not biting. You won't believe he loves her, probably until he says he does (maybe even then it won't be enough proof idk)

Again, to me chapter 75 confirms my opinion, whil it seems that to you it confirms yours. Our views are diffrent. If you really want to discuss this with me , PM because i'm not sure if i'll be able to keep an eye on this topic, so i won't know if an response would come

. But again rather a peacefull truce, till the manga prooves one wrong ( with real evidence), cause like this no one wil have their right anyways :p

Haha, I just noticed

It's the first time since I joined the forum that zero is getting the upperhand in this poll

Even if it not lasts for a day, I really enjoy this moment

caela wrote:

caela wrote:
In the forum, Zero is generally known as not a pervert and is seen as a gentleman (except he's not gentle, oh well) Meaning he follows social laws: He will not be advancing a relationship with Yuuki while he still thinks she has a fiancee. He is not a homewrecker

Yes he’s such a gentleman that he can’t stop pointing his gun to a girl and moreover for NOTHING! If that’s your definition of a gentleman I have nothing more to add.

Secondly did or did he not make a pass on Yuuki when he knew that she was Kaname’s fiancée/lover and ready to leave with that man?
So your argument it’s proved wrong from the manga itself

…

Nina, thanks for giving me an honest laugh:) I would laugh more if I wasn't wrong with my argument. Either way, hilarious!

In Zero's defense, he didn't know when he would see her again. If he didn't try then, then I would have lost respect for him.

Lol .. believe me caela the pleasure and the laugh was all mine … especially with your theory that Zero is a PB or that Kaname is planning to make him one!

Btw … about that … mariangie totally covered me already so I have nothing more to add in a serious mode at least …

But if you prefer the “hard rock” I can give you a taste if you like …

How many gallons of Yuuki’s blood should Zero drink to be a FULL PB?

@ Blood, Divine Rose and ces thank you <333

@ Anneliezz is okay … I have nothing more to add either. But I do agree that Zero doesn’t hate Yuuki as a person but her nature. However I disagree that the proof of his love is that he hasn’t shot her already … Probably that will never happen, but is this his proof of love? … Don’t think so …

The fact that Zero has not killed Yuuki is not proof of his love. It's through his actions of protecting her like he did when she was human that convinces me. Even though he is supposed to be hating all purebloods, he makes an exception for Yuuki. He talks big like reprimanding Yuuki if she ever breaks the rules but his first instinct is still to protect her.

I think he still loves her and its his frist instinct to prtect her and Kaname is somewhat evil i just think zero would be better because he needs her and she needs him even though she doesn't want to admit it she makes me mad sometimes.

nina wrote:

caela wrote:

Yes he’s such a gentleman that he can’t stop pointing his gun to a girl and moreover for NOTHING! If that’s your definition of a gentleman I have nothing more to add.

Secondly did or did he not make a pass on Yuuki when he knew that she was Kaname’s fiancée/lover and ready to leave with that man?
So your argument it’s proved wrong from the manga itself

…

Nina, thanks for giving me an honest laugh:) I would laugh more if I wasn't wrong with my argument. Either way, hilarious!

In Zero's defense, he didn't know when he would see her again. If he didn't try then, then I would have lost respect for him.

Lol .. believe me caela the pleasure and the laugh was all mine … especially with your theory that Zero is a PB or that Kaname is planning to make him one!

Btw … about that … mariangie totally covered me already so I have nothing more to add in a serious mode at least …

But if you prefer the “hard rock” I can give you a taste if you like …

How many gallons of Yuuki’s blood should Zero drink to be a FULL PB?

@ Blood, Divine Rose and ces thank you <333

@ Anneliezz is okay … I have nothing more to add either. But I do agree that Zero doesn’t hate Yuuki as a person but her nature. However I disagree that the proof of his love is that he hasn’t shot her already … Probably that will never happen, but is this his proof of love? … Don’t think so …

I agree with all yet again!

Yes, how much of Yuuki's blood must Zero drink to be PB?

I completely agree Nina. Just because Zero didn't kill Yuuki doesn't proves his love. Definitely does not. I've seen in stories where people don't kill their most hated enemy. Guess they love them now...

zeroyuuki666 wrote:

I think he still loves her and its his frist instinct to prtect her and Kaname is somewhat evil i just think zero would be better because he needs her and she needs him even though she doesn't want to admit it she makes me mad sometimes.

Yeah, and Yuuki also needs Kaname and Kaname protects her and from what I see in the manga a lot more on both. Just because Zero needs her does not mean he's better for her. If that were to be the only reason Yuuki were to end up with Zero is because he needs her, then I definitely will lose all respect for Yuuki's character.

And also Kaname is somewhat evil? Well, he said he was, but I believe he is working for the greater good. But anyways, so is Zero somewhat evil. He points a gun at defenseless girls. He couldn't even detect Maria because she had NO evil intentions and he still pointed a gun at her. Whether or not he shoots, that is still threatening and dangerous. And he wants to kill all PBs just because they exist. Not an entirely a good person. I admit he's good, but not entirely, like a lot of Hino's characters.

Also, to me, the one who is best for Yuuki is the one who doesn't hate her nature. Yes, she can reach out a hand and be a friend to him, but to be involved romantically with someone who hates her nature? That's just stupid to me. So Zero is definitely not the best for Yuuki. Especially not now.