Kaname's Kuran plan of action is heading where?

First topic message reminder :

I wanted to say that reading the VK fanbook it seems that the Kurans had always a predisposition towards co-existence among the races. This 'attitude" along with their anti-vampire ability always brought them in the center of the events and in opposition with other vampires (example the council and the Ichio fanction).

I believe that Kaname's plan focuses on this old time theme that we had seen during the first arc. I think a peaceful co-existence seems to be his final purpose.

During his first time on earth we see that he had fall into a slumber and when he goes to finish the council he says that he "had hesitated the first time" and that after his long slumber nothing has changed in the attitude of the vampires.

There he expresses his dissapointment about the current vampire society (with the council that seems to exploit both humans and vampires for its egocentric plans of ruling the word as it wishes) and destroys the council on that base.

We know that kaname's grandfather had established the council after bringing down the monarchy because he did not wish for only one pureblood to run the power but wished all parties to be involved. Yet the council monopolized and abused that power-Ichio in particular- turning it again into a deaf authority.

So Kaname after his slumber founds out that this system-the council had failed and destroys it.

Now after taking back the power that belonged to his family in the old times like a vampire leader or representative of the vampires, sets out again to bring his old plan into life. Which is what?

I believe it's the reason he fought along with the ancestor in the first place; to stop the ones that ruthelessy take advantage of their power and to insert a new foundation for the vampire society.

First I see him stopping Sarah, then leaving the space open for the youngers and the more innoncent ones (as the night-class who shares his ideals and does not act out of respect and fear as the bees he describes but as friends).

I think that his motivation in this life is Yuuki, he needs her to be safe as she is the last descedant of the Kurans that has the anti-vampire power (and can rule) and more over she is a bright representative of the Kurans good intentions and wishes (like Yuuri) about co-existence.

I think that Hino centers more and more the script around this idea. She has even stated that Kaname, Zero, Yuuki, all three are key for the co-existence to be achieved.

What do you believe about Kaname's actions as seen now and his overall purpose?

And to drop a quick observation here about the hunters;

Remember Isaya's note that Isaya had received and Nina had mentioned and we all had discussed some chapters ago; that the reputation of the purebloods will go bad, but so the reputation of the hunters?

I am adding here Nina's observation from another thread;

Moreover since afterwards Kaname could have proceeded with Isaya’s elimination…
Could it be that Isaya knows something more??? I’m thinking again the “anonymous” note he received lol.

Finally a development that confirms the note ;

So Isaya knew and who ever send him the note also knew what the hunters can support, thus the bad reputation.

Now what about his apathy when standing and watching Kaname vs Kaien, he neither run away when Kaname appeared outside his door (and we all know how a pureblood instantly vanishes), neither did he help Kaien...was it apathy that reaches the sky or he knew more than we expect him to know?

And if he knew, from whom? Who could know and predict the hunter's behaviour? And why to inform Isaya, unless he wanted something from him or Isaya's implication in the story was not predetermined as well?

If Kaname sacrifices his life, his original plan, it would be too obvious of an ending. There would be no surprises and would be a huge let down. Yuuki was born a pureblood who was turned human, but if she is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is. I would loathe an ending where Kaname, who is the heart of the story in my opinion, has to perish. No, I do not want this. It would be an ending that would champion deception somehow.

From Aiko:

if [Yuuki] is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is.

I totally agree, if Yuuki survives the ending, I see her surviving as a vampire. It would be amoral for this manga to end with Yuuki not being who she was born as. It sends the wrong message to the younger fans.

Kaito: To spare a pureblood who’s sympathetic to humankind is not a bad thing. As long as it’s just one person.

To sweetsolace: I pretty much agree with everything you wrote (except with Kaname teaching Yuuki on how to be a pureblood: he taught her the manners side, not the practical fighting/spells stuff) Also, I don't see the Hunter Association as a neutral or harmless part of VK.

I think that the above quote means that the Hunter Association is not doing anything for the moment, but when Kaname has killed enough purebloods, the Hunter Association will be hunting Kaname down. I'm not even sure that they would spare Yuuki.

The Hunter Association may be made up of hunters and not vampires, but I don't see their presence as harmless to the existence of Yuuki, either as a vampire or a human. Someone else pointed out that Yuuki's blood tasted good to vampires as a human and I see hints here and there that Yuuki's value is higher than a pureblood's and she might have powers even as a human. Corrupt people have existed before in the Hunter's Association and some of those bad people used their power to get vampire blood. Kaname's plans must include a plan for the hunters as well.

Right now, my impression of Kaname's words to Kaien: (paraphrase) Tell Yuuki that I killed Ouri

Yuuki was with Kaname at the start of the party and at the end of the party. She has drunk his blood on occasions after the party. She has been inside his mind and saw all the people who Kaname has drank from. Yuuki should have no reason to believe the first lie I have ever heard from Kaname. (I am a Zeki, I've been waiting for Kaname to tell a lie) Sara is the obvious killer because she had Ouri-blood-breath when Yuuki was speaking to her. Yuuki also sensed the fresh blood on Sara.

Kaname's purpose is twofold: (1) to get the Hunter Association to start to target him and draw their attention away from somewhere else (telling this to a current head of Hunter Association is a like an official confession) (2) This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her. He wants her to lose faith in their relationship, not he himself

I don't think Kaname's message would change Yuuki's mind much about Kaname much.

His real next steps? other than squishing Sara? I have no idea.

Juliet's Isaya mention:

My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association and then combine it with some vampire leadership, a combo Hunter association and Vampire counsel. Since Isaya is a pureblooded friend of Kaien, I think that Kaname is not going to kill Isaya but instead will approach Isaya to be a part of that new leadership.

Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.

The fact that Kaname could see Yuki when she travelled back in time and named Artemis, I feel that this has to be very crucial to the story. What does it mean? Kaname told Yuuki since they were very young that he would always be with her. Kaname giving up on this relationship is disheartening and all the fight and struggle of the past chapters would have been in vain, pointless. It can't end like this. Maybe this will incite Yuuki to finally fight for Kaname and save him - she did declare to Kaname after she was turned into a vampire that she wanted to protect him and he told her that she would have to be very strong if she wanted to do that.

aiko wrote:The fact that Kaname could see Yuki when she travelled back in time and named Artemis, I feel that this has to be very crucial to the story. What does it mean? Kaname told Yuuki since they were very young that he would always be with her. Kaname giving up on this relationship is disheartening and all the fight and struggle of the past chapters would have been in vain, pointless. It can't end like this. Maybe this will incite Yuuki to finally fight for Kaname and save him - she did declare to Kaname after she was turned into a vampire that she wanted to protect him and he told her that she would have to be very strong if she wanted to do that.

well i agree with you, in ch 64 last pages he did realise that this little kid [yuuki] in juri's arms was familiar to him[when yuki and he talked in past]. but i dont think kaname wants to give up on his relationship with yuuki as you said the whole manga would be pointless otherwise, as for yuuki fighting for to protect kaname for that she needs to get out of the academy and stop this new night class since i really dont think its doing any great favours to anyone.

she also needs to trust kaname like aidou hanabusa does she should not listen to sara. she should keep her promise i remember aidou and yuuki promised they would remain by kaname's side no matter what.

kaname's path well i think yuuki will not let him turn her into human.neither will she allow him to die for her like her mother. she loves him too much.it would be extremely bad. maybe thats why many say yuki is the vampire knight though i strongly believe its kaname. this might be the reason yuuki. is kaname's knight not[theoretically but according to their actions, only protector]. some images also show yuki being protective of kaname. this is what i think. so no i dont think kaname will die to turn yuuki, yuuki will stop him and live with him happily.

also kaname knows almost what everyone is doing he mocked kaien that even he believed sara's words that kaname killed ouri thats why he said go tell yuki i killed ouri since he knows kaien beleived sara, so i really dont think he wants to kill himself to turn yuki. yes he said that but this time yuuki is not a child she will stop him.she couldn't stop her mother but she will stop her fiance kaname.

Juliet wrote: So why is he putting all that extra effort to keep her away, totally destroying her trust in him? isn't enough that she is bound to the academy and apparently Kaien as he asked has no intention to give it back to Kaname?

Haha … may I add more questions? Why he is doing whatever he can in order to crash Yuuki’s trust and apparently her feelings for him since - as some fans believe - Kaname left her cuz he knows that Yuuki is in love with Zero and not with him???? Why when Kaien said that Yuuki still believes in him he answered “That’s so like Yuuki” huh?
Seems to me that Kaname and Kaien know how deep, strong and unshakable Yuuki’s feelings for Kaname are …

- Finally kaname's plans is still not revealed. We learned that in the past (when they were kids) he had intended to sacrifice himself to make her human. Kaname seems to be inclined in sacrifices by the way...but ever since then a lot happened.

Right … this info made me thrilled lol. Hino has threw this possibility out of the window now cuz even IF Kaname had the same idea (which as it seems he hasn’t) apparently this isn’t going to happen … I suppose an author wouldn’t revealed the end of the story before hand … would he/she???? The question is rhetorical ofc …

Anyway … the point is why he thought that he might have to turn her into a human cuz Juuri’s spell perhaps would have an expired date?>>>

sweetsolace wrote: its strange back then he knew Yuki would return to human again and he found it necessary to sacrifice his life again if that happens just like Juri did. How did he know? He decided to break the spell at its "peak" point where Yuki was starting to become insane and turn her before she does, which means the spells usability was at its limit. What if it wasnt spent yet, was there another circumstance that would necessitate turning her AGAIN to human, and can Yuki really break spells?

I think the answer is because Yuuki indeed can break spells. We have three incidents thus far as indications:
1. Yuuki broke Kaname’s spell when he tried to “erase” her memory about the fight Zero vs Shizuka (as Maria) … eventually she remembered what witnessed that night.
2. She broke her mother’s spell (well Zero’s bites also helped in that direction).
3. As we saw lately she also broke the spell of the kidnapped child at the HA and synchronously she absorbed its memories …

So for me the questions are:
- How did Kaname knew about her ability back then since supposedly a baby PB hasn’t developed its abilities in such premature age … Could be cuz Yuuki had broke Kaname’s own spell (the one he put upon himself when he sealed his memory and turned into a baby) when she grabbed his finger for the first time? Kaname appears to start retrieving his memory around that age. ???
- But IF so then another question rises … how he could guarantee that Yuuki wouldn’t break HIS spell as well in the future????

I don’t make any sense lol.

Kaname saw that need to turn her again when they were young, not only Juri. Why she needs so much protection?

Right … and I think that Juuri had this idea from when she was still pregnant to Yuuki … she requested from Kaien to “give” his life to her and his school so she could send her child there >>>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-19/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

Note her wording “I want them to see the many faces of this world and to enjoy their youth in a lively world where they’ll have all the freedom of laughing and crying at will …” I think this line is an innuendo about Juuri’s intention to turn her child into human …

Also when Rido attacked their home with the intention to take Yuuki, Haruka said to Juuri that it was time to do what they had discussed long ago i.e. to sacrifice herself and turn Yuuki into human.

So did they take that decision due to their previous terrible experience with their first child; or could it be cuz they knew how special would be Yuuki hence the extreme measures for her safety???

So it leads me to think the threat over her as a pureblood is far more serious to necessitate changing her and even sacrificing their own lives for that, and I have a feeling its not only Rido. But something else. I could be wrong though

I share the same feeling sweet … or could be a combination >>> an enormous threat plus Yuuki’s importance and I don’t mean only for Kaname … Yuuki as the heroine of VK should justify her title eventually >>> why she is so important and why she is one of the keys for co-existence! Thus far she hasn’t show much but I think her time to shine is coming …

As we have seen the Kurans are like magnets for evilness … even Kaien at some point thought that if he could annihilate the Kurans (the core of vampires’ society) his “curse” it might come to its end lol.
So even and if Yuuki isn’t more special than her mother for example, still since she is a Kuran with the unique ability to wield anti-vampire weapon that alone is enough reason to be a target.

aiko wrote: If Kaname sacrifices his life, his original plan, it would be too obvious of an ending. There would be no surprises and would be a huge let down. Yuuki was born a pureblood who was turned human, but if she is to be reverted back to human, denying and forgetting who she is, an ending like that doesn't fit the idea of VK to me - accepting who one is.

caela wrote: I totally agree, if Yuuki survives the ending, I see her surviving as a vampire. It would be amoral for this manga to end with Yuuki not being who she was born as. It sends the wrong message to the younger fans.
.
.
Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.

Totally agree with both of you!!!!

So to sum up … Kaname doesn’t intent or can’t turn Yuuki into human again cuz it would be pointless and inefficient (she can break her spell, plus since her existence is known to the hunters and to the nobles she won’t be safe either as a human!)

Therefore let’s see the alternative scenario … leaving Yuuki as a PB which I think is the most plausible outcome.

My question is … even IF Kaname is planning to wipe off all the PBs and end his life in the end (the method is irrelevant) HOW can be sure that Yuuki will be safe??? As we saw in this chapter the hunters wish to annihilate ALL the PBs. Even if Kaito said that Yuuki could survive since she is likeable to the human kind her convo with Zero says otherwise >>>

Page 30:
Yuuki: But the important people in the Hunter Association all want the purebloods to all disappear
Zero: Yes, eventually
Yuuki: Does Zero also wish for “all”?
Zero: All
[Panel, Yuuki’s thought] All...

So in other words eventually they won’t spare Yuuki either! Even if Zero oppose in such drift his lifespan is very shorter than Yuuki’s so he can’t protect her for ever. In other words Kaname is the only one who can do that.

Another potential threat is the nobles … even if Yuuki as a PB is more powerful from them still this doesn’t mean that they won’t view her as a prey for her blood for eternity! Also note what Rima said in this chapter >> “The reason for my bitter thoughts... is because the king of the purebloods have already betrayed us vampires...” she believes that Kaname has betray their race and she is bitter. Who says that the rest of the nobles won’t feel the same way after Kaname’s plan and try to avenge the Kurans through Yuuki since she’ll be the ONLY PB Kuran???. Or capture her and use her blood (Shizuka’s case) …
In fact I think that’s the most plausible scenario judging from what we know about their nature. We saw how they treated Yuuki when she requested their cooperation for the re-opening of the NC.

And I want to add another factor in this difficult equation >>> the humans. I have mentioned in the past as well that the humans it might be involved in this arc.
Hints:

1. Juri’s words to Kaien in the past >>>
“What change of heart has made you try to kill me just now? You know well I don’t do the type of things that would get me in the hunters’ execution lists. OR is it that you were planning to capture me and sell me to the ill-intentioned people who desire PBs for the miracle drug our blood represents?”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-17/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

2. If we add on Juuri’s words the fact that Kaname has used his blood as medicine in the past for the villagers and how they claimed for his blood when figured its miraculous effects then I think is safe to assume that humans who are in high positions now and know the existence of vampires would like to do the same. Ergo Yuuki as the only one remained PB will be their “prey” as well.

3. Yagari already implied about the humans’ views for the vampires >>>
“… and for the ones among them who know the truth … the vampires’ superior intelligence and special skills are inevitably something those men are burning to exploit and they are also all thinking that that if they do things right they should also be able to get their hands on the vampires’ longevity as well … Just like the previous HA president … and just like those vampires who attacked the school to target your adoptive daughter … ”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-6/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html

I think Yagari’s words it might be proven prophetic!

4. The intro of a human congressman … Yori’s father. Again from his words we can see that powerful humans want to get along with the vampires.

5. And lastly Rima’s words! She shed light about their position in society and how vulnerable are actually>>>

Page 20:
Rima: Us vampires are totally submerged into the human society and their politics.
But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence. And to casually push out a relatively unknown new blood tablet.
We might have a lifespan that’s so much longer than a human’s and much stronger powers. But apart from the reputation of nobles, we really have nothing to protect ourselves.

Also can it be that there are humans who collaborate with Sara for the tampered tablets???
I have said before … in the 1st arc we had as villains the senate (i.e. the nobles who manipulated PBs for their blood) + corrupted hunter + PBs … all of them had joined forces. What if now the role of the senate will be played from powerful humans? Could have Sara joined forces with humans??? IF humans with ill-intentions are involved in the production of Sara’s tablets (as Rima implied) then the whole race of the vampires is running a great danger here! Think how they could be manipulated using these tablets! Takuma’s “happy face” isn’t so promising lol.

What I’m trying to say here is that even IF Kaname’s plan is indeed to annihilate ALL the PBs that will be not enough for Yuuki’s safety neither for the mankind nor for the vampire race.
Sure he’ll accomplish to stop the “production” of the level-es and ONE root of evilness but the nobles can pose a threat for Yuuki and for the humans with their superior abilities. The hunters won’t spare Yuuki as well and who says that they aren’t gonna exterminate the entire vampire race in the future (>>>Rima: “But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence.”).

Therefore from what I understand both races are potentially victims and victimizers.
So the problem here is far more complex to be solved only by wiping off ALL the PBs and moreover with Kaname’s sacrifice/death in the end. From what I can see this isn’t the solution and I think Kaname is far cleverer not to realise that!

Maybe juliet’s theory about a war is possible after all … Sara has prepare an army already … what for?
The problem is that the fronts aren’t obvious at the moment!

About this scene from chapter 66 :

The scene said as this ( pages 24 to 26 from a translation I own ) :


Kaname : "... hey Yuuki . In return is it okay to ask you a question . How have I seen by Yuuki ? I want to hear no longer the words that I tell myself . "

Yuuki : " ... About you , I just recently knew of the things like you being my honorable ancestor and so on , but I'm proud of you being my oniisama , and I'm proud of you being my sempai . You and I are the same kind , but you are a beast that has the shape of a beautiful man all the time . In spite of you being a beast , you are weak somewhere . You are a liar you are somewhat vicious , and you have too many secrets . Although I promise to become your wife when we were little , i don't understand well whetever you really like me or not ... no ... you like me but it's mixed with various things ... Kaname ... I ... will start over watching you intently and firmly . I want to start over this . From here , I want to start this properly . This is my utmost answer to you . "

[Note : this is just my interpretation . ]


Chapter 75 makes more clear about why Yuuki got mixed messages from Kaname when she bited him . Makes a little more clear what was Yuuki's confussion .

As I said a lot of times before , Kaname has a dual nature . With mixed feelings about Yuuki . He trully loves her . He desires the best for her , her liberty . At the same time he wanted Yuuki for himself . A think I call : Kaname being both Prince charming and Demon King at the same time .

When Yuuki was turned human by Juuri , Kaname knew her spell wasn't permanent . Probably because he knew Yuuki has the power to break spells . So even as human , she could someday dispell whatever Juuri done to Yuuki . Kaname's original intention was to watch over Yuuki . Making sure her spell continues to be okay . In the case of failling , Kaname would proceed to remake it with his life as sacrifice .

During those 10 years , Kaname knew he loved her with all his heart . So much as to not drinking flesh blood except for some rare instances . The Ruka incident ;where Kaname drank from Ruka to avoid drinking from Yuuki . And the time he drank from the human offering given by the Vampire Senate after he knew Yuuki could not give him more of the nurishment he desired from her . Losing days without sleeping as he knew Yuuki could not be his again .

When the time for the spell breaking came . Yuuki started to lose her mind . She wanted answers from Kaname . To Kaname confess what he knew from her past life . Kaname said to her to become his lover as a way to protect her . Tried to continue hiding her past from her . Then Yuuki confess loving Kaname . Kaname snapped . His desire for her love ; to be at her side for eternity , was bigger than his original intention for recasting the spell to make a vampire human . Kaname needed Yuuki so much at his side ; he choses to turn her a pureblood vampire again . Instead of allowing Yuuki a life as an innocent human girl . Because of his love and desire for her .

Most probably Kaname considered at that time he could eliminate all the elements he identified as harmful to Yuuki's well - being ( the Vampire Senate , Rido and the corrupt Vampire Hunter President ) . Then hide Yuuki until he could check everything in the Vampire society was stabilized enough to garantee Yuuki's safety .

But for some reason around a year after living with Yuuki , Kaname decided vampire society continues to be dangerous for her . Maybe because of her powers . Maybe just because of her inexperience . Or her generous and kind nature . Or because vampires continues with their traditional ways to interact with humans . Or because some purebloods continues turning humans into Level E vampires . All of the above , some or even other reasons why to continue Yuuki being a target from enemies . That no matter how egoist he could be with him wanting to keep her from harm . Yuuki could be harm . As she wanted freedom to do what she wants . He began to plan how to protect her . His idea involved eliminating all the things he associated could harm Yuuki . His idea of protecting her implied getting her out of his plans to avoid Yuuki to be harmed or even dying . Maybe even considered making Kaien and / or Zero her protectors and shield again . Maybe even retaking the idea of returning Yuuki to human .

Kaname had to be very confused what to do about Yuuki . When Yuuki drinks from him , she had to feel all those insecurities Kaname had about what to do with her : To love her as his mate /wife . But taking the chance of someone in the future harming or even kill her . Or to gave her her freedom . But by doing it sacrificing everything ( even his life ) for making her road free of obstacles .

So basically Yuuki felt Kaname loved her when drinking his blood . But also felt his anxiety and insecurities about her well being . His feelings of sorrow to know he would not be with her forever as he wanted to be . As he had already taken the choice to leave her to implement the plan he believed could garantee her happiness . A live without needing to worry about vampires who could harm her . A plan which required sacrificing himself . Making Yuuki believe he had destroyed her trust and love .

But Yuuki's answer to Kaname's denote . Even the contradictory feelings she got from Kaname were not enough to make her lost her trust and love for Kaname . So I want to see her next move . When she at last decided to look for Kaname and confront him about what its happening .

@accepting one's nature
I agree with both, the point of the story is to accept one's nature. Kaname also gives an important message after Yuki became pureblood--she shouldn't deny her true nature.

caela wrote: This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her.

Yuki is already too naive to realize Sara's plans right under her nose, much less interpret a coded message inside a lie, IF it is a code. If she got too bored and has nothing to do perhaps there's a chance the thought will occur to her. But I doubt it, for now.

My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association

yes. exactly. the way the association is presented now, it seems their ways must be changed if the future will hold a new world for Yuki and its inhabitants. Either the HA function is nulled, all hunters are killed which doesn't make sense with idea of coexistence (since they also cant help their nature to hate, they are part of coexistence), or the hunters lose their job because there's no job--there are no more level Es, therefore no excuse to kill. I find that the hunters lose their job and HA purpose itself would be better. Also, this is another reason why I don't see Zero continuing to become HA president, because the HA itself is not pro-coexistence, its job relies on the beliefs of the hunters that compose it so it can be indiscriminate towards who should be killed. Another thing is, HA's purpose itself is to kill level E's, how can there be TRUE peace if blood is still shed, even the ones who needs to be.

nina wrote:So for me the questions are:
- How did Kaname knew about her
ability back then since supposedly a baby PB hasn’t developed its
abilities in such premature age … Could be cuz Yuuki had broke Kaname’s
own spell (the one he put upon himself when he sealed his memory and
turned into a baby) when she grabbed his finger for the first time?
Kaname appears to start retrieving his memory around that age. ???
- But IF so then another question rises … how he could guarantee that Yuuki wouldn’t break HIS spell as well in the future????
Note her wording “I want them to see the many faces of this
world and to enjoy their youth in a lively world where they’ll have all
the freedom of laughing and crying at will …” I think this line is an innuendo about Juuri’s intention to turn her child into human …

Also when Rido attacked their home with the intention to take Yuuki, Haruka
said to Juuri that it was time to do what they had discussed long ago
i.e. to sacrifice herself and turn Yuuki into human.

So did they take that decision due to their previous terrible experience with their first child; or could it be cuz they knew how special would be Yuuki
hence the extreme measures for her safety???

good points. it may be so, I can understand why her parents would want to give her a different future as a human, but did they know it would be temporary? Or does only Kaname know Yuki's power to break spells? Also to go so far as to give his life to give Yuki a chance to be human in case juri's spell misses , Kaname gave away his original plans in exchange for yuki's happiness, with no thought of continuing it or securing her safety in the future. which means when he did the original plans he already thought of going for a long term investment that would secure not only Yuki's life but also her happiness in the future.

What I’m trying to say here is that even IF Kaname’s plan is indeed
to annihilate ALL the PBs that will be not enough for Yuuki’s safety
neither for the mankind nor for the vampire race.
Sure he’ll accomplish to stop the “production” of the level-es and ONE root of
evilness but the nobles can pose a threat for Yuuki and for the humans
with their superior abilities. The hunters won’t spare Yuuki as well and
who says that they aren’t gonna exterminate the entire vampire race in
the future (>>>Rima: “But humans can kill vampires with no legal consequence.”).

Therefore from what I understand both races are potentially victims and victimizers.
Sothe problem here is far more complex to be solved only by wiping off
ALL the PBs and moreover with Kaname’s sacrifice/death in the end. From
what I can see this isn’t the solution and I think Kaname is far
cleverer not to realise that!

exactly nina. This is why I don't buy that "kill all purebloods" reason, it is too cheap for Kaname's taste and myself. It seems more like a preparation or a diversion, something else, but i don't think it is the main plan and the only plan he has. I'm definitely sure there's more here than meets they eye.
To create a utopia for Yuki all the problems of all races and their issues must be addressed. In short if we think about it simplistically, it simply means wiping out EVERYONE and leaving Yuki ALONE, with the humans, probably.
She will live her life as an outcast, the last vampire, becoming some sort of lone hero in the distant future.. ah a possibility but a bad one. I still think Kaname will become part of her new life, it is, in a way, his redemption.

caela wrote:
Juliet's Isaya mention:
My guess: If Kaname is planning to rebuild the world into a place where Yuuki could be safe as a vampire, he'll have to also fundamentally change the Hunter Association and then combine it with some vampire leadership, a combo Hunter association and Vampire counsel. Since Isaya is a pureblooded friend of Kaien, I think that Kaname is not going to kill Isaya but instead will approach Isaya to be a part of that new leadership.
Killing every pureblood but Yuuki will only put a target sign on Yuuki's back, even as a human.

About Isaya's note; I dare to assume that it was kaname that send it and yes, it prepared Isaya for what he was about to witness, therefore he almost stands there apathetic, doing nothing.

(there is also the chance that Isaya informed Kaien about Kaname’s prominent visit and kaien took the bait and appeared to defend his friend).

Of course that can only be my opinion, but right now I have nothing else to interpret, Kaien's sudden appearance there, Isaya's apathy and also "the bad reputation of the hunters" referred in the note.

In general I agree, Isaya if an ally can be also used later on and finally step into action as a far more active figure.

About Kaname's plan in relation to Yuuki ;
It seems predetermined a long way back; we do not have information about it but eventually there are pieces of information that now fall into place;

“We seem so cruel and even hesitant to sacrifice even one for the greater good”

Spoiler:

“A person like you, could you really stand against Kaname (or stop according to another translation?)

Spoiler:

It almost sounds like a prophecy, Aido-dono seems to know far more than he tells..

“I want you to maintain peace; it’s the selfish wish of a parent”

Spoiler:

Aido-Dono seems to be very well aware of Kaname’s intentions, or he does not know them, he suspects them (unless he has premonitions too ).

caela wrote:
This is a coded message to Yuuki that he is still continuing his plans and for her to give up on him coming back to her.

I understand that Kaname wants to protect Yuuki, but protection from breaking all ties and trust with a person is very long-distanced.

A logical question; Yuuki is already in the academy, tied up with a role and heavy duties. Kain seems to have no intention to let her go and this is exactly what he says to Kaname when he sees him.
So why is Kaname going further than that? Actually, burdening and burning himself with lies such as he killed Ouri and going even further saying that he will go and kill Sara? (Confirming Sara’s fears when she pleaded Yuuki to enter the academy?)

It’s not just about protection, is it? I believe that Kaname knows that Yuuki eventually will throw herself into action. He just wants to make sure that this action will be against him and that prior to that action, she will not have understood the show that is going on, actually falling for the already served dinner.

Kaname feels confident that he knows the path that she will choose;

Spoiler:

Yuuki already showed who she wants to be and on which side she is going to stand;

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

He should now have become, to her eyes, with all these he did and said, the one that will not allow co-existence and her ideas to flourish. Why?

In my opinion, Kaname wants to force Yuuki to deliver him the final blow and be the one that shall receive his powers, becoming the one that will eventually realize the co-existence, be able to finally command and rule all. She who is pure and innocent and whose ideals are still alive and fresh.

He does not want her to abandon her ideas and to sacrifice herself or burn herself with him; and he knows she will..

Spoiler:

Therefore, he has to find a way to stop her because falling with him is something he does not intend to allow; if Yuuki does not remain true to her ideals, there will be no one to deliver peace when Kaname’s plan to erase all threats and hate shall be accomplished and all the pillars for vampires will be shattered.

And I think that’s the importance of Yuuki right now for kaname; not only to be safe but to be true and pure, to be the one that shall realize co-existence for him. She has to be, if not her, there is nobody else he can put trust and faith on. If there is a hope for him to change the condition of vampires, I believe that this hope is Yuuki.

The hunters need to change/ their natural instincts are prohibiting the co-existence- The purebloods play foolish games out of boredom and are messing with the people> kaname knows by heart their history and both races’ crimes. So perhaps that’s a long game in order to turn the one against the other while other threats like Sara or threats that are summoned from the past to prohibit the co-existence, are also eliminated on the way.

I tend to think that kaname’s decision to move forward with his plan was triggered Hanadagi’s awakening (whatever that means), and also Sara’s threats. That showed him that co-existence could not be realized through a long term project (as he had said at the HA meeting). In combination with Yuuki’s path, he can not afford the peaceful and long-term ways.

In his mind. I believe Yuuki represents co-existence and he shall protect, defend and make her rise with all means.

As he had already taken the choice to leave her to implement the plan he believed could garantee her happiness . A live without needing to worry about vampires who could harm her . A plan which required sacrificing himself . Making Yuuki believe he had destroyed her trust and love .

I agree Mariange, and Kaname’s plan seems to involve this step that you described. I believe that Hino indirectly throws the idea of the sacrifice here through a flashback of the past.
Kaname is a planner and too smart, but I hope that Yuuki proves to him that she shall not eat his excuses and his ready impressions.
She needs to wake up before its too late and Kaname reaches the latest part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man that loves her more than his own life.


This is my opinion, although I do not believe that kaname will sacrifice himself in the end, because other things will not let him, but until now I believe that's his ultimate intention and that's the role that he is keeping in his mind for Yuuki.

eventually I think that his intention shows that Yuuki also has to sacrifice a part of her own hapiness, just as he did, for the ultimate good.

Eventually the sacrifice wish can also be seen as his redemption and never been granted.

And my bets are on Zero…haha... damn, he must do something (why did Hino give him a role? to stand there all day long? haha...)

If you have other versions of kaname's plans (less pessimistic, please do write it!! LOL)

I think Kaname's plan of action is more simple than he makes it out to be. He wants to get rid of all the purebloods an let yuuki live... he may or may not change her back into a human. How he does it though.... who knows.

I personally don't want to think that Yuuki would be not smart enough to know that Kaname did not kill Ouri. (Zero and Kaname are both in love with Yuuki for something.) I'm hoping that Kaname said that he killed Ouri for the sake of Kaien having something productive to report to the Hunter's and give a legal basis to charge Kaname with the murder of hunter who died with Ouri. This allows the Hunter's Association to take out Kaname.

Juliet, my guesses of what Kaname might do:

Spoiler:

juliet wrote:
Aido-Dono seems to be very well aware of Kaname’s intentions, or
he does not know them, he suspects them (unless he has premonitions too
).

yes Nagamichi seems to know something about Kaname's plans--before Kaname lopped his head off in chapter 67, Kaname said something to him and his eyes showed recognition or consent. It's not a reasonable expression for someone who just found out he's going to die, rather someone who knew very well the significance of his "death". And I have no doubts he knew it has something to do with Kaname's plans.
Also he had knowledge about Sara--unlike the others who take her for granted, Nagamichi seems to be more vigilant towards her than the rest. He also knows about the seal on Hanadagi's castle and Hanadagi himself--whatever his role is. He knew about certain things that others did not seem to know, and this gives me the idea it played a part in the consent of his death.

juliet wrote:
So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will
need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It
almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

He
should now have become, to her eyes, with all these he did and said, the
one that will not allow co-existence and her ideas to flourish. Why?

In
my opinion, Kaname wants to force Yuuki to deliver him the final blow
and be the one that shall receive his powers, becoming the one that will
eventually realize the co-existence, be able to finally command and
rule all. She who is pure and innocent and whose ideals are still alive
and fresh.

He does not want her to abandon her ideas and to sacrifice herself or burn herself with him; and he knows she will..

Therefore, he has to find a way to stop her because falling with him
is something he does not intend to allow; if Yuuki does not remain
true to her ideals, there will be no one to deliver peace when Kaname’s
plan to erase all threats and hate shall be accomplished and all the
pillars for vampires will be shattered.

And I think that’s the
importance of Yuuki right now for kaname; not only to be safe but to be
true and pure, to be the one that shall realize co-existence for him.
She has to be, if not her, there is nobody else he can put trust and
faith on. If there is a hope for him to change the condition of
vampires, I believe that this hope is Yuuki.

somehow its too obvious. The fact this was also predicted by Kaname's haters way before this chapter makes it even more conspicuous. And conspicuous is not Hino's style. For countless times some of theories have been proven wrong even though it really seemed like it can only go there, for this reason im inclined to believe there's another path. Though I'm still thinking WHAT it is we are already at the bottom of the options here.

She needs to wake up before its too late and Kaname reaches the latest
part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man
that loves her more than his own life.

yes... but the question is, wake up to what realization?
Kaname is evil? She already knew it and she accepted him despite that.
Kaname must be stopped for her plans for peace?
First of all, what does Yuki have for her plans for peace---- being a grimreaper? In essence she brings down the one who is causing chaos against peace/coexistence, but the question we have to ask is, IS Kaname the only one who is a threat to coexistence? Is his actions a threat to coexistence, who says it won't result to coexistence, and who says killing is evil when the hunters have approved of it and even Aido-dono's own death which he agreed to? This questions the very act of killing Kaname himself, when we still don't know WHERE and WHAT his actions will lead to, WHY he is doing it, and WHY is Sara ignored, who is ALSO A THREAT.

WHY he deliberately turns everyone against him, YET he also promises to eliminate the VERY THREATS in vampire society-- THE PUREBLOODS. Or does he? ...

What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain? Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?

Ask yourself this question: So she stops him. Surely she must think her ways are better than his. So what are her ways, and how is it betteR?

The Night class and prefect method is better? The night class whose president is the same one who is distributing tampered blood tablets in the streets and has more charisma than her?

And if Yuki KILLS him in the end what did that achieve? If he killed all purebloods and that resulted to PEACE for both the hunters and humans, THEN Yuki killed him, she is the SLAYER of a HERO. And her consequence will lie heavily on her guilt, which she will live up to by trying to boost herself and in turn be the one to redeem herself---a Typical Suzaku Ending per Code Geass---in short, A PUNISHMENT ENDING, where Yuki is plagued with Guilt feelings and the feelings of Heavy Responsibility to continue Peace by her own hands. Alone. And even more so, burdened by the fact her lover was dead and she killed him, her chance to eternal happiness gone. She might as well die.

Of course, Kaname would not want this for her.

How can she become Kaname's substitute in delivering peace? How would you know that by eliminating Kaname by her hands, the world will be peaceful for her? How would you know that Yuki is the key to coexistence when she has poor leadership skills and her service has no customers so far, she is the weakest pureblood alive even subject to be usurped by the likes of Sara. WHAT does Kaname entrusts her to do, WHAT does his provocations do to her trust in him, and WHY does she not have to hesitate in doing what he wants?

The point I'm trying to make is that Yuki looks like someone who will eventually end up saving lives and being the KEY to coexistence, IMO imagine if the only thing she does to fulfill this is to kill Kaname who kills purebloods or finished killing purebloods it doesn't make sense---what did she achieve there? What did she rid the world of? Presuming she had only given redemption to one man, while Kaname had paved the way for change to happen in VS. What then? We have seen her skills in leading vampires, and it is poor. Can we say she can lead the new change Kaname presumably invoked in Society? No. Yuki, by herself, appears to be useless in leading.

In this sense, and my above reasoning I don't believe in an ending where Kaname dies, but an ending where Yuki redeems herself as a heroine of the story. To have ultimately lived up to her own words---that she does not want to see sadness nor cruelty--must be solidified until the very end, to see to it no one has to die for her sake again.

She has wasted lives on her existence, it is her turn to give back.

And my bets are on Zero…haha... damn, he must do something (why did Hino give him a role? to stand there all day long? haha...)

well, his role still stands. But ok, I think he will do something, we all know he is predictable and simple enough to see he will eventually help Yuki in the future. Somehow its his only role and the only one that makes sense. He had helped Yuki by giving her blood to achieve her role, in a way she had "tamed" him a little, I think Zero will play his role again to bring Yuki and Kaname together, as he always did in the first arc.

What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain? Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?

I agree with sweetsolace. Kaname is not trying to be killed by Yuuki, at least not yet, considering how weak Yuuki is right now.

Kaname has been very public about his actions of killing purebloods. That is not his normal style: he would usually have others do his dirty work for him (Zero was the first to seriously wound Shizuka and was the one who killed Rido). He is trying to draw attention and I think he is trying to draw the attention of the enemy of the purebloods.

The enemy of the purebloods is not Rido: Rido was still vampire jelly (due to pre-teen Kaname) when the Hunter's execution list was changed to have the name of Shizuka Hio's human lover.

To draw the ultimate bad guy of VK out in the open, Kaname will have to very publicly kill some people (to draw attention) and then very publicly die. Kaname is too strong a protector of Yuuki for this enemy to attack Yuuki right now. The way Kaname killed Touma shows that Kaname can fake his own death convincingly. I think all this points to a fake capture, public trial and execution (by either the vampires or the Hunters) of Kaname that Yuuki can't stop. Kaname is looking for all the attention he can get.

(I also think that it would be alot more work to convince Yuuki to kill Kaname)

Kaname had Aidou and Takuma in his night class for a reason: these two are the future heads of the most politically powerful vampire noble families. This is part of Kaname's overall protection plan for Yuuki. I don't think it is also a coincidence that Zero received so much Kuran blood and that Zero is next-in-line for the Hunter presidency. Zero is also part of Kaname's long term plan for Yuuki.

Is Zero suitable for that role? Right now, no. Is he showing any progress with his extreme hatred for purebloods? I personally think that Zero pointed the gun at Yuuki in chapter 75 because she was getting too chummy with Zero and he is not about to get romantically involved with someone with a fiancee. He is focused on getting some emotional distance with Yuuki.

When Sara showed up, Zero put the gun down, instead of threatening Sara as well (like he did in chapter 46 with Kaname's arrival at another Zero-pointing-gun-at-Yuuki scene.) Zero's actions in chapter 75 doesn't reflect his hatred for purebloods; its a clumsy way of telling Yuuki to get lost, your blood smells too good, I can't think straight when you're around...etc.

Ok then, so again, is there any possibility that Zero will change his mind about pureblood genocide (hitler, pol pot, etc...I think that genocide is considered evil in any culture.) Does the fact he put down the gun when Sara came, who is another pureblood, impress anyone? I mean, it is progress for Zero.

Kaname is not trying to be killed by Yuuki, at least not yet, considering how weak Yuuki is right now.

Its the point of Yuki killing Kaname. If she killed him, she will carry the responsibility of continuing what he started, its a given. And the way she is now doesn't seem too solid or promising.

Kaname has been very public about his actions of killing purebloods.
That is not his normal style: he would usually have others do his
dirty work for him (Zero was the first to seriously wound Shizuka and
was the one who killed Rido). He is trying to draw attention and I
think he is trying to draw the attention of the enemy of the purebloods.

The
enemy of the purebloods is not Rido: Rido was still vampire jelly (due
to pre-teen Kaname) when the Hunter's execution list was changed to
have the name of Shizuka Hio's human lover.

To draw the
ultimate bad guy of VK out in the open, Kaname will have to very
publicly kill some people (to draw attention) and then very publicly
die.
The way Kaname killed Touma shows that Kaname can fake his own death
convincingly. I think all this points to a fake capture, public trial
and execution (by either the vampires or the Hunters) of Kaname that
Yuuki can't stop. Kaname is looking for all the attention he can get.

I agree, seems like he is luring someone out into the open, or so I think.

yes It does seem like he wants a lot of attention. He is trying his best I believe. As for the fake trial/execution it seems possible as he did use his bats to cover up Touma, maybe he let Kaien and Isaya see that intentionally to show that he is capable of such deception? So they will know what to think if they see this fake execution happen? Kaien and Isaya as we know are two of his trusted friends/allies/colleagues. It also fits that he is demoralizing Yuki so she would not be too miserable once she finds out his supposed death, if thats his intention, then Kaname would not want to involve her further.

Though another question rises, why fake his death? so he plunges himself into a series of criminal acts, suffers the consequences for it thru the fake execution, and then? the ultimate boss of VK comes out when yuki is most vulnerable? hmmm this seems like a likely idea

Kaname
had Aidou and Takuma in his night class for a reason: these two are the
future heads of the most politically powerful vampire noble families.
This is part of Kaname's overall protection plan for Yuuki.

The Aido family is the pro Kuran faction, while Ichijou family is in the anti Kuran faction, so is the Shiki who is in the night class.
For now doesn't seem to make sense how Hanabusa is going to turn powerful leader someday, nor is Takuma who is under Sara's control nor Senri or Rima.

I don't
think it is also a coincidence that Zero received so much Kuran blood
and that Zero is next-in-line for the Hunter presidency. Zero is also
part of Kaname's long term plan for Yuuki.

who knows. Kaname gave him blood as replacement for Shizuka's blood, it was the contingency plan, the reason was for Zero to kill Rido later on. Kaname might have planned Zero beside Yuki through Kaien though we've yet to know. Zero is apparently stabilized through multiple blood he received, not only Kaname's.

Does the fact he put down the gun when Sara came, who is another
pureblood, impress anyone? I mean, it is progress for Zero.

ok I didn't notice that, but i think if he knows something about Sara and he doesnt want to make it obvious he would refrain from alarming her, especially when she is acting suspicious of every single thing.
I think Zero's surprised Yuki told him he was kind, he had tried to show the opposite for the past few chapters--struggled to it--and she saw through him. I bet he was pissed. We all know he cares and shows it through being rough, though its understandable he'll snap when someone says he's kind while he does it.

Also he had knowledge about Sara--unlike the others who take her for granted, Nagamichi seems to be more vigilant towards her than the rest. He also knows about the seal on Hanadagi's castle and Hanadagi himself--whatever his role is. He knew about certain things that others did not seem to know, and this gives me the idea it played a part in the consent of his death.

It certainly does, but he seems to already have stated that; “Few to sacrifice for many to be saved”
So in a way an answer is provided to us; Kaname’s plan has good intentions, I believe than in order to justify it, Hino will use the above lines to redeem Kaname. Ιt seems an acceptable and possible outcome.

somehow its too obvious. The fact this was also predicted by Kaname's haters way before this chapter makes it even more conspicuous. And conspicuous is not Hino's style. For countless times some of theories have been proven wrong even though it really seemed like it can only go there, for this reason im inclined to believe there's another path.

I am talking about Kaname’s plan and not the actual script and the course that is going to take. Sorry if that is not obvious. I believe that Kaname, yes intends to sacrifice himself in order to supply Yuuki with his power ; perhaps through that he wants to achieve another goal as well that has to do with the vampires and the hunters. Not sure though about the last.

You seem to disagree with Yuuki’s importancy but why?

Yuuki’s path as you say is “In essence she brings down the one who is causing chaos against peace/coexistence” and that’s a task that she decided for herself. That is the path that she wants to follow.

Apparently there are two ways for kaname;

One to prohibit her to walk that path and keep her to himself (but in that way he would make her unhappy; chained Yuuki in image with Rido) and one to support her (happy Yuuki smiling with the vase). But isn’t the last image (the free Yuuki) the one in /kaname’s mind that shall bring her the ultimate happiness?
I think that Kaname thinks that her happiness is indentified with that role. Perhaps Kaname sees that in their eternal time, this task is far more important, than binding down Yuuki with him.

Remember what he said to Kaien; “Yuuki has chosen her own path, I have no means to bind her”.

That still shows his perception that Yuuki will need to achieve her goals in order to be happy. But again, I just say I think that this is his perception.

IS Kaname the only one who is a threat to coexistence? Is his actions a threat to coexistence, who says it won't result to coexistence, and who says killing is evil when the hunters have approved of it and even Aido-dono's own death which he agreed to?

I said in my post that Kaname wants to be seen by Yuuki as as if he is a threat to co-existence.

Previous quote…

So does Kaname want to become the one person that Yuuki will need to eliminate, as she will choose to save the innocent ones? It
almost sounds like he wants Yuuki to stand against him.

I never said that his actions are NOT leading to co-existence, if he wants to protects Yuuki, he needs co-existence and if he wants co-existence he also needs Yuuki safe because I believe that she will become the main pillar,for me that’s one and the same.
So how can it be that Kaname does not support co-existence when he is going extreme in order to keep Yuuki safe but also innocent from the crimes that he is accused now?

How can she become Kaname's substitute in delivering peace?

Ah this is what they also wondered;

Spoiler:

She already is, it’s actually Kaname that opened for her the way to become his substitute as with his absence, the hunters passed the Kuran’s legacy to her shoulders. So the typical part has been fulfilled.

Yuuki is now the representative of the peace treaty, and stands where he stood. We all know that she has taken that role in order to preserve the prosperity of the vampires, and we all know that she wants to try and prove herself at that field.

So what Kaname’s last message to Kaien: “I killed Ouri, I am coming for Sara..” conveys? When he knows that he does not just say that to Yuuki but to the current representative of the peace treaty?

So I think that his intention to be perceived as the enemy of co-existence is obvious. And that’s the problem that I see here; because he does not limit himself to her protection but he tries to invade her ideals, her role, her responsibilities and challenges to choose.

The hunters may not care about co-existence but Yuuki is right now at that school promoting the ideal and she has the total responsibility for the nobles that followed her and the families that supported her there.

So eventually Kaname obliges Yuuki (due to her position) to stand against him. Or brings out a dilemma…on which side is she going to stand?/ which positions is she going to defend? What am I trying to explore is the “Why?” Why to go that far? In relation to Yuuki’s weakness to actually do anything, what is he trying to achieve?

For me the most obvious answer is because Kaname wants Yuuki to defend her path and her position and in that way, he can promote her further in the eyes of the vampire society. To earn recognition and respect, to detach herself from him and finally be able to walk on her path without ties, binds and restrictions. You said it yourself “Yuuki cannot support her ideals, she is far too weak”.

she is the weakest pureblood alive even subject to be usurped by the likes of Sara.

Kaname knows about her weakness that prohibits her from realizing her plans.

Spoiler:

And perhaps his plan also targets at aiding her in this destination.
The hunters are talking in front of her as if she is thin air, no one takes seriously her role and her obligations. This needs to be changed. How? That’s a thought. Can it be that Kaname creates the conditions that can promote Yuuki at the leadership in a fast forward motion? I am thinking possibilities here.
Right now Yuuki is thinking going after him, but if she follows him at this dark path, she could highly risk her role and lose the faith and the trust of the vampires and the nobles. What they said to her;

Spoiler:

They hardly trusted her and to me it seems that right now her choice, her path is restricted.

So for kaname wants to avoid that, he wants to prevent Yuuki from throwing that title and that crucial role away and right now to jeopardize to identified with a “killer” and a “bersek”.

In combination to the above and the difficult dilemma that he is creating to her, it shows me that he has other plans for Yuuki, which are not limited solely at her protection, Yuuki’s destination seems greater than this and Kaname guards it.

How would you know that Yuki is the key to coexistence when she has poor leadership skills and her service has no customers so far.

Wish that her service never gets customers…

How do I know? If someone is putting Yuuki as a key, and is turning her little existence into a great one, that’s Kaname; when he decides to drive these actions, when he decides to reach the extremes in order to keep her safe, he is the one making her existence important. And that’s because he knows who she is.If it was all about a girl,any girl that he favored apparently he would not intend to sacrifice himself for her when she was human, neither make all these efforts for her.

We already saw Kaname’s path in the past; it led to co-existence and peace and Yuuki’s path is not different. Weak or powerful; it makes no difference, it is the intentions that count and she is a Kuran after all, her legacy is undeniable, it has already been charged to her. Sooner or later she shall become what she is destined to be.

I believe that he believes in her; what she believed, he also believed; he also wanted to sacrifice himself for the humans (the innocent ones), he also never hurt humans, and he also choose to take a path defending the weak ones against the powerful.

That’s exactly what Yuuki stated to Isaya that she is willing to do; that’s her path. Her path was his path.

It also belonged to him also. And he knows that these kind of people are willing to make sacrifices for the others to be saved, he knows it not only from the ancestor but also from himself.

So apparently, if Yuuki can do something, she might be after all willing to do it. That is the fear that drove Kaname into taking action; we cannot ignore it.
As I said before, it’s obvious has the intentions but not the means and that’s a dangerous combination because she needs to grow but she also needs to be prevented.

If Yuuki’s character does not develop into something greater, and if Kaname’s actions are driven by his motive to keep her safe and just concern her as a simple girl all the script shall fail to convey true meaning and significance.

What is Kaname's role? The hero or the villain?

The question is who he wants to be? For others he wants to be the villain and he is going desperately in trying to be identified as “dangerous” and “bersek”, in reality yes he is a hero, and I believe a heart made of gold.

Can you get what I'm arriving here, if Yuki STOPS him in the middle of his plans, WHAT CAN SHE DO to deliver coexistence BY HERSELF?

She cannot actualize co-existence by herself that’s why I said; Actually my deepest fear is that Kaname will realize co-existence for her but totally “burn” himself in the process.

I said…

She needs to wake up before it’s too late and Kaname reaches the latest part of his plan and she also needs to figure out that she has a man that loves her more than his own life.

The latest part…when kaname will have actualize and opened the way to co-existence by cleaning the way from the threats, and he shall ask her to grand him freedom and redemption as he may go on killing more innoncents (I suspect that can be his ultimate reason to force her to kill him – reminding to her, her services).

In addition, what he may try to achieve will be (according to my opinion) his own sacrifice in order to pass the ultimate power to Yuuki so she can finally be undoubtedly the pillar of the society in all means.

The only people who are aware that Kaname is still alive is Cross, Zero, Akatski, Isaya and Souen. Kaname hides out with Isaya and takes over the bodies of Akatski and Souen (they give permission) to influence the rest of the story from behind the scenes.

You have already heard Kaname, if it is to leave without Yuuki he prefers to be killed by her own hands.

And if Yuki KILLS him in the end what did that achieve? If he killed all purebloods and that resulted to PEACE for both the hunters and humans, THEN Yuki killed him, she is the SLAYER of a HERO.

I do not think that she will kill him on her own will, if she would kill him, it would be, because he would have wanted her to kill him and he would present it (I assume if that ever happened) as if she has no orher choice.

Apparently the “sacrifice” part worries me because kaname has that tendency (twice) in the past and because by the end of the story he will be the one who will have taken all the burdens and the crimes on his shoulders.

What I am actually thinking is that he would be wanting Yuuki to receive the acknowledgements and the glory, Yuuki to be the one that shall rip the fruits of this success and finally to fulfill her role (meeting free her destiny), the ultimate happiness for her as he has it in his mind.
Therefore he would not want anyone to know and reveal his true intentions. He would not like anyone to attribute to him the title of the “hero”.

@ Yes I know, I ‘ ve written a story myself here (you know) that can not be avoided with me, but anyway, I am talking about Kaname’s plan, not the actual plot. Apparently many more things may come in the way and Yuuki will need to make a great twist. I agree its time to pay her dues and show that she can support what she initiated.

@juliet

I am talking about Kaname’s plan and not the actual script and the course that is going to take. Sorry if that is not obvious.

are you kidding me?? you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

You seem to disagree with Yuuki’s importancy but why?

no I didn't disagree, I was questioning her importancy as heroine of the story. She has to redeem herself as the main character, and only killing Kaname doesn't make sense for me.

Apparently there are two ways for kaname;

One to prohibit
her to walk that path and keep her to himself (but in that way he would
make her unhappy; chained Yuuki in image with Rido) and one to support
her (happy Yuuki smiling with the vase). But isn’t the last image (the
free Yuuki) the one in /kaname’s mind that shall bring her the ultimate
happiness?
I think that Kaname thinks that her happiness is
indentified with that role. Perhaps Kaname sees that in their eternal
time, this task is far more important, than binding down Yuuki with him.

Remember what he said to Kaien; “Yuuki has chosen her own path, I have no means to bind her”.

That
still shows his perception that Yuuki will need to achieve her goals in
order to be happy. But again, I just say I think that this is his
perception.

those were his contradictions, and it helped him decide his next moves--which was to let her go.

yes, he said "I no longer have the means to bind her to me". What are the means he was talking about? chains, padlocks, his love? and was Yuki bound to him? was Kaname enforcing her to do household chores like Kaien does to keep her occupied, and therefore bound to him? How is he binding her?

Kaname was the one who said before, "Yuki I already know which path you will take.. You have held this hands for so long.."
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/vampire_knight/v13/c063/13.html
And now he's saying, "Yuki has already chosen her path" --But what IS her path?

path to freedom? is that what she wanted? Its what Kaname decided.
Also see that its Kaname who decided this, not her. He tells her he knows which path she will take, but he also forces her to go on this path by leaving her. The path was forced onto her--Kaname left her and she's forced to be with Kaien and Zero, Kaname tells lies and kills, pitting Yuki to decide to stop him. Its a path he decided she would take, a path he influenced her to take, and a path she had no decision over.

But do we really know what she's going to do? No. We only know she will stop him--HOW? It doesn't convince me, she can't even do anything to the hunters--when in fact she can control them as a pureblood. And yet she fears for her life while with them, too peace-loving Yuki.

I said in my post that Kaname wants to be seen by Yuuki as as if he is a threat to co-existence.

I
never said that his actions are NOT leading to co-existence,

the questions were things that needed to be answered by Yuki or anyone, not specifically you. It questions the logic of his actions---if he's indeed planned to kill himself by Yuki's hands because he's demoralizing her, as your post keep reiterating.

if he
wants to protects Yuuki, he needs co-existence and if he wants
co-existence he also needs Yuuki safe because I believe that she will
become the main pillar,for me that’s one and the same.
So how can it
be that Kaname does not support co-existence when he is going extreme
in order to keep Yuuki safe but also innocent from the crimes that he is
accused now?

we're actually NOT SURE of what Kaname's saying, if its a game or its for real. He is so cryptic so Im actually wondering how you can sound certain it would be that simple for him. Obviously he's willing to go through all of this to achieve something, the question is what is that? and how it ties to the events? The path of "Yuki will kill him" only answers one set of questions--what about the rest? whats the volcano for, what does he plan to do with Sara, Isaya or Kaien? What did he plan for Yuki? He says he hesitated in his original plans before and now he's resuming it-- BUT is killing all purebloods just that or is that only a facade, a prologue to his Original Plans? And will this O.P. bring coexistence? is he planning coexistence? do you know?
is it still about Yuki or his O.P.? if its about Yuki, how?
this questions need to be answered.

She already is, it’s actually Kaname that opened for her the way
to become his substitute as with his absence, the hunters passed the
Kuran’s legacy to her shoulders. So the typical part has been fulfilled.


Yuuki is now the representative of the peace treaty, and stands
where he stood. We all know that she has taken that role in order to
preserve the prosperity of the vampires, and we all know that she wants
to try and prove herself at that field.

BUT WHO is leading the night class now? Not Yuki, SARA. she lost by CHARISMA alone. Rima herself says she needed it to lead. she doesnt have it.
And she still hasn't noticed she is doing her blood tablets right under her. And you say that she is the substitute for Peace? O_o
What was the RESPONSE of Yuki soliciting help from the nobles? They were actually reluctant because of Kaname's actions outside, how do you say he had facilitated her entry to become "his substitute" when he did not prepare or aided it by his present actions?
Kaien was the one who forced her to do Kuran responsibility, to keep her away as you have once said , if Kaname predicted this too then he's going risky here, he left her in a daycare center to be cared for and play with other children---I don't see Yuki being a good leader when she's weak, presently, she needed to drink blood because she cant tolerate tablets, she lacked charisma to lead, her name as Kuran is presently not helping. Her leadership is presently being challenged and even MOCKED. I don't see this as a productive step towards leadership, but more like a daycare center where she is left out of Kaname's path while he goes on to his job.

So what Kaname’s last message to Kaien: “I killed Ouri, I am
coming for Sara..” conveys? When he knows that he does not just say that
to Yuuki but to the current representative of the peace treaty?

So
I think that his intention to be perceived as the enemy of co-existence
is obvious. And that’s the problem that I see here; because he does not
limit himself to her protection but he tries to invade her ideals, her
role, her responsibilities and challenges to choose.

it is like I said previously, we have to ask ourselves what coexistence means right now in vampire knight. If purebloods go down, that will mean peace, right? Tell me im not wrong. Purebloods ARE most often the antagonist in the story. The hunters even liked the idea, but Kaien does not. why Kaien hates it? it means killing and it goes against his school's ideology to try to live together. Yuki goes against it because it kills even the innocent ones.
Kaien and Yuki's solution is to herd a pack of vampires and humans to show living together is possible, in short they want a REPEAT of THE FIRST ARC---PREFECTS SECRECY galore, meanwhile hiding existence of vampires to humans. BUT where is the PUREBLOODS in this HERD, the purebloods which Kaname is addressing? The nobles say purebloods can only fight purebloods, the hunters don't do anything to enforce law on the purebloods, and now Kaname is killing them ITS WRONG? Now this goes back to the question, if Kaien and Yuki thinks its wrong then whats the solution?
Yuki's grimreaper service, come all who wants to die I will give it to you? Yagari also said the same thing after the ball incident, "those pbs who want to die come here and we'll give it". But even Isaya says its a ridiculous idea, and yes it is, who would volunteer for death when you can have everything? so what's the REAL solution here?
What makes Kaname WRONG in killing purebloods?
How is coexistence done in VK, when whats being shown now is A REPEAT of the first arc? so this is Kaien and Yuki's ideology? a REPEAT?
What makes Kaname's solution a bad one and why it has to be stopped, according to Yuki?
I hope I'm getting across here, but what Kaname's doing is seen as bad because of the killing part in my opinion, but what makes it different from Yuki's or Kaien's?
If Kaien for example says he represents peace and the treaty de blah, then how come he had just ALLOWED the one who will disrupt peace inside his academy--SARA?
And if Yuki wants to stop Kaname for killing the innocent purebloods, then why is she allowing the one who will disrupt coexistence TO BECOME PRESIDENT instead of her?
Sara here represents THE IRONY of their ideas.
So they are against Kaname because he is killing, but they didn't know they already ALLOWED someone who might destroy peace itself.

What am I trying to explore is the “Why?” Why to go that far? In
relation to Yuuki’s weakness to actually do anything, what is he trying
to achieve?

I have the same question. But again, conspicuous is not Hino's style in my opinion. Something that had already been massively predicted--Kaname will be killed by Yuki's hands-- may not happen. I dont think its that simple.

For me the most obvious answer is because Kaname wants Yuuki to
defend her path and her position and in that way, he can promote her
further in the eyes of the vampire society. To earn recognition and
respect, to detach herself from him and finally be able to walk on her
path without ties, binds and restrictions. You said it yourself “Yuuki
cannot support her ideals, she is far too weak”.

Kaname's actions does not support Yuki's. It actually contradicts. At the start of the project the nobles were wary of giving her support because of Kaname, and even now her position runs a thin line between immature and average. How is she going to redeem herself?
Think about it, if Kaname just does all this to piss her off so she would kill him in the end because she's the Good Girl and he's the Bad Guy---what about Kaname's Original plan?
it seems to me the most obvious yet reasonable that he's doing this to cleanse the "bad roots" and let it be known to others he is doing so especially Yuki, she will kill him and then she'll be known as the hero who will lead everyone to the Repeat of the First Arc School and Prefect System.
This is probably the most boring ending and repeat ever.

Right now Yuuki is thinking going after him, but if she follows him
at this dark path, she could highly risk her role and lose the faith and
the trust of the vampires and the nobles.

They hardly trusted her and to me it seems that right now her choice, her path is restricted.

So
for kaname wants to avoid that, he wants to prevent Yuuki from
throwing that title and that crucial role away and right now to
jeopardize to identified with a “killer” and a “bersek”.

In
combination to the above and the difficult dilemma that he is creating
to her, it shows me that he has other plans for Yuuki, which are not
limited solely at her protection, Yuuki’s destination seems greater than
this and Kaname guards it.

...
that's it? he's doing all that lying to keep her away? LOL. honey, its just too simple. which is why I agree with the bolded part. still lots to reveal. and we're not even at the ending yet.

How do I know? If someone is putting Yuuki as a key, and is turning
her little existence into a great one, that’s Kaname; when he decides to
drive these actions, when he decides to reach the extremes in order to
keep her safe, he is the one making her existence important. And that’s
because he knows who she is.If it was all about a girl,any girl that he
favored apparently he would not intend to sacrifice himself for her when
she was human, neither make all these efforts for her.

Exactly, he safeguards her for a more important role, or a reason. What that is, we'll find out...

We already saw Kaname’s path in the past; it led to co-existence and
peace and Yuuki’s path is not different. Weak or powerful; it makes no
difference, it is the intentions that count and she is a Kuran after
all, her legacy is undeniable, it has already been charged to her.
Sooner or later she shall become what she is destined to be.

how do you answer to Sara then? a bad pureblood managed to prove she got the upperhand to the Representative of Peace and Kaname's Substitute Yuki. That was no longer about being weak or powerful, it was a danger sign even, that Yuki can be tricked in the future, which is not good if all this advertises a Better Future.
If Kaname is ensuring she will turn out to be a better substitute for him, shouldn't he have prepped her more?

Actually my deepest fear is that Kaname will realize co-existence for
her but totally “burn” himself in the process.

which is why I said makes it a punishment ending. Yuki is forced to go on a path that Kaname decides for her, he places the burden of his supposed death onto her guilt, which drives her forward, relentlessly, to work on his goals---her goals too. In a Repeat of the First Arc.

In addition, what he may try to achieve will be (according to my
opinion) his own sacrifice in order to pass the ultimate power to Yuuki
so she can finally be undoubtedly the pillar of the society in all
means.

and then what will Yuki do to the hunters who are threatening her life, stopping her from going after Kaname?
I suppose when she got Kaname's powers she will take them off the picture too, lol, then this just trashes the whole idea of PC.
another thing you're suggesting here is that Yuki becomes the only pureblood alive which creates problems for the hierarchy of vampires as already mentioned--unless she makes herself Queen Bee the "pillar of society", which contradicts what Kaname said about purebloods being revered.
So she stays at the academy to create a Repeat of the prefect system, same thing. and then?
do we start reading from chapter 1 again? LOL
Whats happening right now is a REPEAT just Yuki swapped uniforms so she's wearing white now.
in which case both the idea of Yuki being pureblood queen and Yuki being night dorm president is contradicting to several ideas presented currently.

You have already heard Kaname, if it is to leave without Yuuki he prefers to be killed by her own hands.

that was IF Yuki left him. It was KANAME who LEFT HER.
and that was IF Yuki choose to leave him. she wants to go after him presently.

I do not think that she will kill him on her own will, if she would
kill him, it would be, because he would have wanted her to kill him and
he would present it (I assume if that ever happened) as if she has no
orher choice.

so what are you saying, that he is going to force the decision to make her?
HE WILL FORCE HER TO KILL HIM?
WHAT KIND OF ENDING IS THAT? Where's the love there?
not only does this make it selfish and full of assumptions you have concluded, but it also sounds contrived now. Yuki has to be forced upon a circumstance by which she must raise her artemis down and kill him---AGAIN AND AGAIN, THIS CONTRADICTS HER IDEA THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO SUFFER. DEATH is still suffering.

And all this because of what Kaname said, you've already reached a FINALE here as if you've been thinking and planning how it can happen all along, struggling to reach a possible conclusion where it ends in death. But how sure are you?

Remember how you thought Kaien was being a bad father a chapter ago? and NOW, what is he now?

@ Yes I know, I ‘ ve written a story myself here (you know) that
can not be avoided with me, but anyway, I am talking about Kaname’s
plan, not the actual plot. Apparently many more things may come in the
way and Yuuki will need to make a great twist. I agree its time to pay
her dues and show that she can support what she initiated.

Kaname drops an uncertain hint and you RUN with it to the finish line faster than anyone else as if someone's actually chasing...

I hope there's actually a rope waiting there for you because I'm not betting on this "race" in the first place....

*tiptoes around*

I've read a lot of posts and its tearing my brain to pieces. Honestly I'm totally confused as to what Kaname's plan of action is. I'm about 98% convinced though that his goal has always been coexistence. His past shows that he has tried so hard to live among humans and he had planned to sacrifice himself for them. So humans will be able to protect themselves??? I guess Kaname's plans since the past has always involved war and killing. I mean why would Kaname's idea of coexistence be to give humans weapons to kill vampires? Probably so that vampires will be able to look at humans as equals if they had the ability to fight against them? Killing purebloods would make sense though because only purebloods can turn humans to vampires and create an army...

But I think Kaname might be missing a big picture here because of his love for humans. Although I think at the moment its Hino-sama that's missing the big picture >.< The humans are EQUALLY AS GUILTY as the vampires. Their lack of acceptance and fear drives a wall to the reconciliation of the species. The hunters approval of Kaname's actions is proof of this. Most humans dont want to coexist with vampires. They want to eliminate them. And if purebloods are gone and vampires cannot propagate by other means except for childbirth, it will be a great chance for the hunters to strike at the vampires and eliminate them. So Kaname's plan has to be greater than what we have grasped so far. And for the life of me I cant think of anything to bring out this coexistence at all. Yuuki killing Kaname would just make the hunters happy before eliminating her themselves. It wont miraculously turn her into a hero.

Kaien's plan might work, but it would probably take thousands of years before everyone would be able to accept it and by then Yuuki might already have been sacrificed. And I'm sure this is one of Kaname's fears.

I only hope Hino-sama has a credible idea because she has totally confounded me. I'm really looking forward to see on how this will play out.

@

are you kidding me?? you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

m, yes but it was about Kaname's plan, so I am not kidding you at all as you saw. And it was more about his intention ( I mean in general) that characterizes him as a character to have that sacrifaction tendency.

Sweet in overall I agree, there are so many points that we have not seen yet, and is quite early to judge, on the other hand I believe that perhaps Hino's intentions to show that Kaname is willing to sacrifice himself in overall (for the humans/or Yuuki) comes far too early, creating a dark mood and atmosphere (at least for the ones that care).

So mainly its deceiving to expect that since that sacrifation mood is evident from now, Hino will finally apply it to resolve VK, as you said it is massively predicted. Yet, its good to see the reasons why this kind of end cannot apply, because until now we have not really gone into exploring the issue. And as you said its a massive prediction...

is it still about Yuki or his O.P.? if its about Yuki, how?

Kaname's plan...if Kaname does not intend to bring co-existence, then how would Aido-dono would support him, Ruka and Kaien? And if he does not do it about co-existence (and that was also a part of his original part), then how would he create a safe place for Yuuki as he had promised that he shall do?
You can see how all clues pintpoint to co-existence/even if he faces a big threat> eventually I believe that his actions are following a good track that will aid society as with Rido/council case.

Hino can not leave co-existence out of her script, that's the main theme of Vk..it would be like cancelling all the character's concerns and issues especially Yuuki's that has been a supporter of Kaien all along and also the role of the Kuran familly that supported co-existence and brought balance >

(the moment that Kaname steps out the leadership, we have accidents at the town, Sara is building her army because the hunters neglected all clues showing extreme bias towards Kaname the moment they did not know what Sara's plan was about (all they were saying; is if Kaname will turn against them and if he co-operates with Sara, proving incapable to perfom the role they were created for and now they show indifference about purebloods). Total chaos.

So I expect a resolve for that issue to come out as well* Kaname's plan can be multi-leved like in the first arc; a role for Zero, the termination of the council, his liberation from Rido, Yuuki's identity revealed. I do not expect it to be simplier but I think it should convey also that matter through its actions.


As for the unfair part, Kaname deserves hapiness so if it is to sacrifice himself how is Hino going to present us a hero-victim/ whatever? and expect that to be also our reward for all the time that we read VK?

There is this sacrifation mood that hangs there for chapters now (actually I had also opened a thread asking about it) and this is one of my worst fears as I am afraid that Hino may want to make it epic in terms of genre of tragedy.
But then again how easily would she give out the meaning of all these?

how do you answer to Sara then? a bad pureblood managed to prove she got the upperhand to the Representative of Peace and Kaname's Substitute Yuki. That was no longer about being weak or powerful, it was a danger sign even, that Yuki can be tricked in the future, which is not good if all this advertises a Better Future.

About that aspect, that's a concern right now, because as we see Sara advances with her plans while Yuuki's ignorance does not help at all.
Apparently for now she is going to need the help of others (and Aidou's finding with the tablets might proove to be helpful) but to answer your question, no Yuuki has not the means now to fight these conditions alone (is Zero going to be any help here or is Kaname going to exterminate Sara soon enough), yet if she does not meet bad and evil, if she does not fall into traps (no matter how disturbing this is) she is not going to improve at all.

That's why I mentioned Kaname's role and interference in uplifting her for the time being at the eyes of the society so that she can at least hold the faith that they show her- her plan with the school right now seems to be threaten.
I can not think of another way for Yuuki's character to be developped (actually I can but I will save it for later LOL), if she does not get help until the end. Or else how is going to make it?

that was IF Yuki left him. It was KANAME who LEFT HER.
and that was IF Yuki choose to leave him. she wants to go after him presently.

No it said " If I am to let you go i'd rather kill you myself or have you kill me" official viz media translations, so its a different thing.
The thing is Kaname's purpose, because if he wants to ensure Yuuki's and others safety, then he wont be doing such a thing (asking for her) until the end. And if he does ask it, it can be out of guilts and remorse (as Nina demonstrated) feeling that she would not accept him back after having so much blood at his hands. This does not mean that Yuuki shall accept such an end, she has already accepted a part of his sins, so despite his intention, she shall accept him.

HE WILL FORCE HER TO KILL HIM?
WHAT KIND OF ENDING IS THAT? Where's the love there?
not only does this make it selfish and full of assumptions you have concluded, but it also sounds contrived now. Yuki has to be forced upon a circumstance by which she must raise her artemis down and kill him---AGAIN AND AGAIN, THIS CONTRADICTS HER IDEA THAT SHE DOES NOT WANT ANYONE TO SUFFER. DEATH is still suffering.

I do not think that she will kill him on her own will,if she would
kill him, it would be, because he would have wanted her to kill him and
he would present it (I assume if that ever happened) as if she has no
orher choice.

No I described the conditions under which Yuuki could only kill Kaname, not that she or he will apply it, answering to your previous post. Apparently yes such an ending does not contain love. And it would be selfish from Kaname to ask Yuuki to do such a thing. But the term of sacrifice is actually broader, let's say as an example that he would exchange that with making all vampires human and ask from Yuuki to give him the final blow in case he was suffering.

In that case would the center of the discussion still be Yuuki (actually I do not even care what will happen to Yuuki -if Kaname's dies) or Kaname's intention?

So it does have to do a lot with how Hino would serve such an action...even though the use of the idea at an early stage comforts me. But its not impossible if Hino had such an intention to find methods of serving that just right in order to make Kaname's action under the general light, hard to deny, that this was the right way to go.

Remember how you thought Kaien was being a bad father a chapter ago? and NOW, what is he now?

About kaien we would not have all this mess if he had let Yuuki go, LOL, so no my perspective has not changed yet. He was too much into a hurry to say his lines "I will not return Yuuki to you" before seeing Kaname's intentions. So that's actually and a bit of presdiposition there. He is concerned yes, but still keeping her againts her wishes. And a part of the mess with Sara is his own doing, prevention nada.

I hope there's actually a rope waiting there for you because I'm not betting on this "race" in the first place....

It'a a possibilty that I would gladly do impossible! Still as you said Kaname's actions and intentions are unclear. I am still keeping my reservations on this topic on a small percentage because Hino can be full of surprises, but after discussing the issue, I also tend to think that Hino wants to scare us rather than inform us.
So I will also place my bet elsewhere, do not worry LOL...

I posted my predictions on Kaname's version of Endgame.

Its page 2 on the thread.

https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t886-how-do-you-think-vampire-knight-is-going-to-end



Read at your own risk because I think I mostly figured out endgame. Not kidding

m, yes but it was about Kaname's plan, so I am not kidding you at
all as you saw. And it was more about his intention ( I mean in general)
that characterizes him as a character to have that sacrifaction
tendency.

you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow
ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking
about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just
define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

Sweet in overall I agree, there are so many points that we have not
seen yet, and is quite early to judge, on the other hand I believe that
perhaps Hino's intentions to show that Kaname is willing to sacrifice
himself in overall (for the humans/or Yuuki) comes far too early,
creating a dark mood and atmosphere (at least for the ones that care).
Yet, its good to see the reasons why this kind of end cannot apply,
because until now we have not really gone into exploring the issue. And
as you said its a massive prediction...

you said this before:

If you have other versions of kaname's plans (less pessimistic, please do write it

now I wrote another less pessimistic version, and you continue on your pessimistic version, you even defend it. I hope you're not fooling yourself, because its clear to me how you expect or even want an ending where Kaname sacrifices himself. "Tell it before it happens" plan. but you think its acceptable to kill Kaname off because of something you thought in the script "for a long time now" and you want to materialize your fear by making it real and more believable before it actually happens.

the point I showed about Kaien was the fact most of us thought he was being a bad father to Yuki because of his words to Kaname about not giving back Yuki, and it turns out he was trying to defend peace in this chapter. The point is perspectives change a lot in vampire knight and what may appear strongly suggestive may just be a small part of something.

Im not denying the possibility Kaname can die, but I don't like that possibility either nor do I find it reasonable which is the reason why I defend it rather than going along with it.

you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow
ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking
about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just
define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

Are you sure that is not going to happen? OF course I wrote it as Kaname's plans...if that results in the ending of the story, as an idea and as a theory what's the problem? the title of the thread?

I hope you're not fooling yourself, because its clear to me how you expect or even want an ending where Kaname sacrifices himself. "Tell it before it happens" plan.but you think its acceptable to kill Kaname off because of something you thought in the script "for a long time now" and you want to materialize your fear by making it real and more believable before it actually happens.

Yes and I see also that your own fear (for Kaname not to die), makes you rule out every other possibility.

Right? right. We can not consider another perspective or try to explain how Kaname may be viewing things because? tell me the because? Hino has not told us the end, but then all theories should stop, not just this, ALL> apparently I am not going to support such a stand.

Im not denying the possibility Kaname can die, but I don't like that possibility either nor do I find it reasonable which is the reason why I defend it rather than going along with it.

Why do you find it unreasonable when Kaname has all these tendencies;

1. First he wanted to sacrifice himself to save humans
2. He wanted to sacrifice himselg to save Yuuki

Now why is it impossible that he would not go and threw himself on a task where a sacrifice is demanded? (thus he does not want Yuuki involved?) But wasn't that the point that Yuukis should not sacrifice herself? Isn't that his fear? that her path may lead her to that?

If he thinks that is possible for Yuuki why should I considerate that impossible for Kaname?

And you think that I like that possibility because I discuss it or examine the issue? sorry I had no idea that expressing another point of view other shows likes and dislikes. Then apparently I can be accused of that and for many more since I like discussing and going through all options. But I will.

juliet wrote:

you just made a clear path FROM Kaname's plan indications that somehow
ended in Kaname's death, and you're telling me you were just talking
about Kaname's plan? lol if you're not predicting then did you just
define what Kaname's plan is??? And are you SURE it will happen?

Are you sure that is not going to happen? OF course I wrote it as Kaname's plans...if that results in the ending of the story, as an idea and as a theory what's the problem? the title of the thread?

I hope you're not fooling yourself, because its clear to me how you expect or even want an ending where Kaname sacrifices himself. "Tell it before it happens" plan.but you think its acceptable to kill Kaname off because of something you thought in the script "for a long time now" and you want to materialize your fear by making it real and more believable before it actually happens.

Yes and I see also that your own fear (for Kaname not to die), makes you rule out every other possibility.

Right? right. We can not consider another perspective or try to explain how Kaname may be viewing things because? tell me the because? Hino has not told us the end, but then all theories should stop, not just this, ALL> apparently I am not going to support such a stand.

Im not denying the possibility Kaname can die, but I don't like that possibility either nor do I find it reasonable which is the reason why I defend it rather than going along with it.

Why do you find it unreasonable when Kaname has all these tendencies;

1. First he wanted to sacrifice himself to save humans
2. He wanted to sacrifice himselg to save Yuuki

Now why is it impossible that he would not go and threw himself on a task where a sacrifice is demanded? (thus he does not want Yuuki involved?) But wasn't that the point that Yuukis should not sacrifice herself? Isn't that his fear? that her path may lead her to that?

If he thinks that is possible for Yuuki why should I considerate that impossible for Kaname?

And you think that I like that possibility because I discuss it or examine the issue? sorry I had no idea that expressing another point of view other shows likes and dislikes. Then apparently I can be accused of that and for many more since I like discussing and going through all options. But I will.

Of course since Im YUME I try to think how Kaname's death cannot be possible eventhough its a possibility. I'm more than open to the suggestion but like I've said it doesn't make sense to me despite the narrowness of that path since previous chapters have convinced some of us, myself included, that indeed anything can change and anything can happen.

but ok I did not word that right last post. so apologies for the rudeness . But I won't deny the idea that this stuff sounds a bit contrived for my taste.

first of all, the components for Kaname to die by Yuki's hands:

Yuki's path --it was not clearly stated, and whats not clearly stated can always change meaning. its how I said it in my previous post about Yuki's path--what is it because even Yuki herself is not doing productive in this path nor is Kaname's actions helping towards it so how does it convince that "Kaname decided Yuki's path will be to lead vampires in a Repeat of the First Arc" when he's the one shooting it down? You supplied to that saying you don't know how since Yuki looks and acts useless, then if this clue is to be part of the grand whole Death theory then its already uncertain there.

Yuki's grimreaper service --she says its to kill purebloods who want to die. First of all, did Kaname ever said he wanted to die? Like I previously said, Kaname left Yuki forcibly, my idea of his words when he told her that was the leave was to be made voluntarily, not through force. So what does it mean when he's the one who forcibly leaves her? he brings that death upon himself by creating a condition for it which he will eventually act on, leaving Yuki no choice. does this sound contrived or what.

Kaname is killing purebloods, but who's to say they are innocent, who will judge them? The hunters have even agreed to their deaths. The only one against him is Kaien and Yuki and even they have botched their own righteous principles by letting Sara run free among their kind to create the REAL trouble there.
If so, I ask this question again that I've asked previously, what will Yuki be doing if she kills Kaname as judgment for killing innocents (following her belief of voluntary death) OR how will she give him redemption especially when he made no mention he wants to be freed from long life?
So the idea of coexistence is actually BLURRED at this point and even RICKETY, because even the righteous ones Kaien and Yuki are seemingly unaware of the present trouble (Sara) polluting their CE idea. Its unstable. Now it seems reasonable we rely on Kaname to bring about coexistence, and thats what we should find out..

Kaname "burning" himself in Yuki's eyes - not only Yuki. and not only Kaname is burning himself.
we all know he wanted to have a bad image. It seemed he is doing everything he can to put a bad image upon himself, including letting Sara free and owing up to her crimes, but he especially gives extra attention to Aido, Yuki and Kaien.
Aido saw his father killed before his eyes.
Yuki saw that Kaname left her with an unfulfilled promise and a crime, a promise she had been longing to start.
Kaien was wounded and killed Touma by his own hands, per Kaname's illusion. Furthermore telling him to tell Yuki another lie to boost his bad image in her.
These three people were Kaname's most trusted people and also ones who trusted him most. There's a reason why he deliberate gives EXTRA damage to their trust in him, and I believe its the same reason why he chose to go out in the OPEN and in public to kill purebloods one by one when he can do it discreetly even.

It's not only Kaname who's burning himself, he's with Ruka, Kain and Seiren who are with him doing his plans. In some way they're also burned along with him. Kaname is the type not to involve innocents with him, hence he has a way to redeem them, perhaps himself as well.

We still don't know what the volcano will do or what will be its role. Sometime ago it had already flowed down its path which means it was timed to hit something. Kaname moving towards the town where the academy is while this happens perhaps not a coincidence but part of his plan.

there are other plot materials left lying there... like Sara's tablets. The idea was developed to the point where it was already being distributed there, so what happens to it? Kaname said to Kaien to tell Yuki he will kill Sara next, but if he had already lied by killing Ouri was that also a lie, or a secret message for Yuki to tell he was coming to the academy next? Will Sara be killed or will Kaname let her last as she also helps boost his bad image? There are some things to be answered. Its a long way before Kaname's "sacrifice" and things may change.

First of all I’d like to thank Juliet for the loooong discussion we had and her huge contribution for the beneath post. ^^

Kaname’s motive and path/plan.
Chapter 75
Kaname (as a child): “When Yuuki grows up it is certain that she can’t keep her human status … When that time comes I think this time … this time, it will be my turn to change Yuuki back into a human.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/11
Kaien (in the present): “The plans you made that time never happened … to tell you the truth I’m relieved …
After changing the plan is this the path you choose?”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/12

Kaname (in the present): “It is only that my path changed but my motive has always been the same.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/26

His motive/purpose has always been the same only the path has changed.

So … what possibly could be his motive/purpose when he was thinking as a child to turn Yuuki into human? What else rather than her safety, protection and happiness huh? And since this hasn’t changed means that also currently is fighting for the same >> i.e. his MOTIVE = Yuuki’s protection/happiness.

However the path has changed. Which was the initial path? To sacrifice himself in order to make her human. So since now that path has changed means that he doesn’t plan to turn her into human, viz to sacrifice himself at least for that reason, right?
I don’t know how clearer Hino should have had conveyed that! *sigh*

Another conclusion that we can make out IMO of this significant portion is that since Kaname is walking on a different path now, probably means that his alternative (from the sacrifice) is the Original Plan which most likely aiming to turn the world around her in order the outcome (motive/purpose) to be the same >> Yuuki’s safety.

Although his motive and the final goal is more clear still the way he’s planning to achieve that is a puzzle. *sigh*

So I thought another approach … to try figure out what his opponents plan could be. What forces Kaname and the Kurans through millennia have fought constantly…


1. Into his ancestral period the enemy was the PBs (not all of them) who wanted to turn the entire mankind into slaves viz level-e/d vampires. I guess their motive were the fresh human blood and the final dominance.

2. Senate/Asato: It was Juuri’s father (the last king) who stepped down of his throne and established the senate as a different ruling system from the monarchy … so the nobles to have voice and maybe to “decrease” the influence of the PBs in vampire society (?). However this goal never achieved since the senate proved to be corrupted. On the surface they worshiped the PBs as sacred creatures but behind the scene they exchanged favors with some PBs in order to obtain their blood. Used their power to annihilate other PBs and in return was leaving them to turn humans into slaves. They also had cooperation with the former president of the hunters and maybe with some powerful humans.

In regards of the above Juliet has dig up from the fanbook (thanks jul ^^) the beneath portion which describes vividly the situation of the VK world.

Spoiler:

Kaname Kuran is trouble cuz he is the core of the pacifism i.e. co-existence. I think this passage is very enlightening!^^

But what was Asato’s final goal? >>>



http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-7/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html

Pretty interesting … he wanted ALL the PBs to cease to exist! And I bet he had a plan to achieve this … a plan that destroyed by Kaname …

And what about the hunters? As we know the former president of the HA was Asato’s lackey. However before he turns into dust he gave a very interesting speech. >>> “I struggled to have them allow you to go on living …”




http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-25/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html

So the senate and Asato had plans to get rid of the hunters as well. I guess their ultimate target then was the wide dominance … a world free of PBs, free of hunters >> free to treat humans as food due to their superior powers??? Most likely yes.

3. Sara is at least the most obvious active villain currently. In fact Sara had a very close cooperation with Asato in the past and as she said she played the nice girl in order to stay close. I think (and I’ll try to prove it) that Sara now plays the role of the senate/Asato. Same goal and maybe she also using the same “weapons” to achieve her goal.
Sara’s plan:

- First of all seems like she is using the same tactic … she wants to turn her obstacles against each other >> “One piece takes the other and the last one wins”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57815-40/vampire-knight/chapter-65.html

The same strategic was using Asato as well … and I believe in the end she also wants ALL the other PBs dead! << This is the only way to obtain the throne of the Queen forever.

- Sara’s moves: (I’ll use a portion from another translation that I trust as accurate and I think reveals some very important points that aren’t visible in the available scanlation)

* I think Sara was planning (before the re-opening of the NC) to insert into the all-girls Academy. I mean her visit there wasn’t only to collect some girls for her harem. Her intention was to entry in the academy herself >>>

Sara: “Since eventually I will also be admitted to the academy I must hear their request” (chapter 65) << this wording is included in this page >>



http://www.mangareader.net/104-57815-3/vampire-knight/chapter-65.html

And the question is why Sara wanted to go into this academy. My feeling is that she wanted to use the all-girl academy a) for a shelter b) to use the humans as her shield, c) and maybe later for hostages/targets. Perhaps her intention was to lure Yuuki to defend these girls due to her tendency to protect humans? Idk exactly how she thought that she could use the school but I think Yuuki is one of her main pawns (>> hint the pic of the anime where Yuuki with her butterfly wings is trapped in a spider’s web)

Either way her plans slightly changed when Yuuki re-opened the NC … a move that came quite in handy for Sara cuz Cross academy gathers all Sara’s pawns together >> Yuuki, Zero (a hunter’s hand) and the DC which can serve the same purpose as the all-girls academy.

- Tablets:

* When she visited the president of the pharmaceutical company with Takuma:

Takuma to the president: “Today A PERSON WHO HAD TALKED WITH YOU BEFORE likes to come here to greet you as the president one more time again. THE AGENDA of our talk IS ABOUT YOUR REQUEST TO SUPPLY BLOOD to develop the blood tablet, new medicine etc.”
So a) Sara had met the president in the past and b) the president wanted blood supplies for his research about the blood tablets … i.e. the president had already made a research. The question is from when? I think this project it might goes back when Asato was still alive. The indication of this is that Asato was the one who revived this company.
Another clue which supports the above assumption is revealed in the convo between Takuma and the president at Sara’s dungeon >>>

President: “For the research I INTENDED to understand the DANGER CONCERNING WITH PBed VAMPIRES …
She is planning to use the ACCUMULATED research of our company for terrible things sooner or later …”

Here the president says clearly that a) he had done already a research (accumulated) which Sara now obtains and b) the core of his research was the venturousness of the PBs … I suppose that means he was studying the powers of the PBs through their blood!
And that leads me to think that the president started this research for Asato who as he said his final goal was to annihilate ALL the PBs. Also Sara knew that the president wanted blood supplies … so how impossible is that Sara had imprisoned humans for that purpose? That’s why I had the idea/theory that Sara it might have made a batch of tampered tablets before we actually see the current ones with the oval shape << she had the knowledge (accumulated research), the means (prisoners as blood supplies) and ofc the time till she enters into Cross academy.
Anyway the point is that after she captured the president her next move is to steal Hanadagi’s heart which we didn’t see to eat! Why? One of the reasons I think is possible to be that she wanted to use this heart for the president’s research (concerning PBs) or even for her tablets.

However I believe she didn’t pick Hanadagi randomly only for the above reasons but also to enforce Kaname to step in. Which leads me to >>>

- She is targeting Yuuki and ultimately Kaname i.e. the core of the pacifism as every villain who respects itself and aiming on dominance … The proof of that is her early movement to capture Takuma as the closest person to Kaname in order to obtain some info from him about Kaname’s intentions. And the information that seems to lead her to Hanadagi it might be that Kaname is an ancestor.
Also there is a hint from Hino that connects Hanadagi (his castle specifically) with Kaname’s grief over the shattered mirror >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

Additionally Kaname was monitoring Hanadagi’s castle very early >> before Sara makes any further move BUT AFTER she had capture Takuma.

To sum up what I’m trying to say here about Sara’s plan:
a) Sara needed a heart from a PB (tablets)

b) She picked Hana for his heart not randomly but because she knew the connection between Hana and Kaname’s tragedy … i.e. awaking Hana she was awakening an old and maybe deadly threat for him. (I suspect that Hanadagi was involved with Kaname’s wife’s death in the past but I’ll leave it for now lol)

c) In this way she THOUGHT that “forced” Kaname to wipe off Hanadagi into his castle which equals to a declaration of war. A war which might lead to what Asato wanted >> devour one another so Sara be the only PB = Queen and master of the entire world. For the upcoming war she’s preparing an army ready to be sacrificed for her limb by limb >> through the tampered tablets she’s creating submissive puppets like Takuma.

For the above reasons I believe that Sara is following Asato’s initial plan which will lead to the annihilation of ALL the PBs. If so then she must have plans for the hunters as well.

So in what they (Asato, senate, Sara etc) have changed from Kaname’s opponents in ancestral times? I think nothing really has changed … except from the fact that the old wars were open wide and the fronts were more obvious. Now the battles are storming underground and the fronts are blurred … the corruption has penetrated every race horizontal … PBs, lower level vampires, hunters and humans!

Therefore IMO the fronts will be divided between the good and the evil … the right and the wrong >>> between the ones who will fight for the co-existence and the ones who will fight against.
And my opinion is that this is Kaname’s ultimate scope >> to create the conditions so every party in this battle to take its place … no one is “a priori” innocent or rightful or guilty. Every one will have to make the final decision which will lead to the next day …
Now having the above rationale I’m coming to Kaname. Is he aiming to annihilate ALL the PBs? I think no but I would be more certain if we knew IF there have left in the world PBs who like the idea of co-existence like the ones who stood on Kaname’s side in ancestral times … are there any left? IMO it should have … My belief is that it would be wrong from the author to convey such message … that in a better world the PBs have no place. In my mind the meaning of a successful co-existence is all the species to be present … the idea of pacifism cannot identify with the erasure of a whole race. Thus far is it true that we have seen mostly evil PBs but I hope that there exist some good ones who due to the constant fights for more power and dominance choose to stay quiet in the shadow like Isaya. If that will come true then I’m sure that Kaname isn’t aiming to wipe off his race.

Indications:

1. His line >> “A system that can no longer tell good from evil … is a system that can no longer be used”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-7/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html

So how possible is it that his OP cannot distinguish good from evil? Moreover since his opponents were and probably still are aiming to exterminate ALL the PBs!? Can he have the same intention? And if so then who can reverse this path; only Yuuki and Kaien? Seems really utopian …
2. Thus far he wants to make everybody believe that he indeed annihilates all the PBs but there are signs that tell otherwise >>

* He killed Hanadagi but not his family who was in slumber as well.

Hanadagi’s servant: “then please tell him, that the Hanadagi clan, who pride their pureblood lineage, wants nothing to do with outside power struggles. This is where my master and family decided to rest five hundred years ago...” (chapter 52)
So why he didn’t exterminate Hanadagi’s family?

* Hio: Next to him there was a female figure who resembles Hio (same colors, same traditional clothes (yukata) like Sizuka).
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/21
Based on that I assume that she was a member of the Hio’s clan.

Now according to Kaien >> “The mausoleum where the family head before the last generation of the PB Hio family had slept was destroyed … When the subordinate noble vampires hurried there the MAUSOLEUM had become a glittering dust.”

Therefore we can assume that he killed only the HEAD of Hio’s family.

*Touma: Again when Kaname punished Touma beside him was standing a girl. Her girly appearance indicates that perhaps she is also Touma’s sibling but Kaname didn’t harm her.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-49597-22/vampire-knight/chapter-59.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-52342-2/vampire-knight/chapter-61.html http://www.mangareader.net/104-52342-3/vampire-knight/chapter-61.html

* Shirabuki: Sara it mustn’t be the head of her family … at least we haven’t such info, ergo maybe the Shirabuki clan has more members except Sara.

In short … from what we have seen thus far Kaname is killing ONLY the HEADS leaving untouched the rest of their families. And the reasonable question is why; IF his plan is to annihilate the whole PB’s race?
Furthermore there must still existing around 26 PBs? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-28/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-29/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html

The senate had under control 19 PBs and in total were 33 PBs before Yuuki’s birth. So 14 PBs had been away … maybe they choose to stay away because they were against the senate? I think is possible some of these PBs to have been Kuran’s allies thus after the senate took control they withdrew in order to protect their families. Isaya’s case could be an indication of that … he was pro-Kuran, his wife sacrificed and turned their child into human (for its protection most likely) and he became a mere spectator. Therefore it might still existing PBs who aren’t against co-existence and have a place in a brighter future.

Ergo I think that Kaname a) has specific reasons for killing Hana, Hio and Touma, (that I’m not gonna analyze in this post) b) he wants everybody to believe that his OP is to kill ALL the PBs, c) he is attacking at their castles on purpose >> declaration of war.
In this way the hunters have already shown their true colours and Sara thinks that everything is going according to her plan. The only factors that haven’t involved openly/revealed yet are the humans who know the existence of vampires/PBs and aiming to exploit/take advantage of their blood and maybe some PBs who are pro coexistence.

PS. Thank you for your patience.

wow Nina and Juliet good job with the analysis!! looks like someone's thinking positively now.
you won't mind if I use this as reference in the future? . Now we are sure that Kaname is not planning to kill himself to turn Yuki to human, and that he still intends to protect her. LOL Now let's see about that "Kaname's sacrifice" thread.. LOL I can see why this bait is very appetizing for the other fandom though.

And that leads me to think that the president started this research for Asato who as he said his final goal was to annihilate ALL the PBs.
Also Sara knew that the president wanted blood supplies … so how impossible is that Sara had imprisoned humans for that purpose? That’s why I had the idea/theory that Sara it might have made a batch of tampered tablets before we actually see the current ones with the oval shape << she had the knowledge (accumulated research), the means (prisoners as blood supplies) and ofc the time till she enters into Cross academy.

the president revealed in that same chapter 65 while he was locked in prison:
Shortly I will also become a vampire just like the rest of the people here... the puppets without hope.
The other people in the prison, who had similar reasons, were also forcibly made to become obedient vampires, only for her.
So the human prisoners role was multi purpose, not just to supply the blood for the blood tablets (perhaps) but also to be puppets for her like the pres. I also think she could have tested the tablets for her plan initially by tampering it--she can do it and I don't see why she would miss the opportunity.

Anyway the point is that after she captured the president her next move is to steal Hanadagi’s heart which we didn’t see to eat! Why? One of the reasons I think is possible to be that she wanted to use this heart for the president’s research (concerning PBs) or even for her tablets.

not to mention, for all the purebloods we've seen after they've eaten a heart (Kaname, Sara etc) they often show off a new power shortly after they eat it. You make a nice point there, we didn't see Sara eat the heart nor show a new power, so its a possibility she saved it.

b) She picked Hana for his heart not randomly but because she knew the connection between Hana and Kaname’s tragedy … i.e. awaking Hana she was awakening an old and maybe deadly threat for him. (I suspect that Hanadagi was involved with Kaname’s wife’s death in the past but I’ll leave it for now lol)

I'm also leaning towards that suspicion but in another way, Hanadagi is an important pureblood who has to have special defenses around him, perhaps he protects something, something that he possesses? Somehow I'm not sure if he's a good or bad pureblood but he seems ancient, knowledgeable and superior pureblood from his actions

c) In this way she THOUGHT that “forced” Kaname to wipe off Hanadagi into his castle which equals to a declaration of war. A war which might lead to what Asato wanted >> devour one another so Sara be the only PB = Queen and master of the entire world. For the upcoming war she’s preparing an army ready to be sacrificed for her limb by limb >> through the tampered tablets she’s creating submissive puppets like Takuma.

Sara and Kaname seems to be both well aware what happens when Hanadagi's castle is invaded, but I think what makes hanadagi's special was because his castle has a seal and he seems well protected. In chapter 61 Kaname also invaded someones castle--Touma's--and from what I see it didn't look like the breach in standards or violations were severe, not like his prompt and urgent choice of actions in Hanadagi's, so I don't think it has to do with invading a castle. It looked like he used Sara attacking Hanadagi as the trigger for him to start creating chaos too.
Sara worded out what she had done as something like a war, which Aido-dono also recognized with fear.
She had done something that should be feared and would create conflict. Kaname seems to shield her from suspicion by owing up to her crimes while she stirs this conflict more in her own soup of chaos. The question is how long will he allow her, does she know she is shielded and is taking advantage of this as well, or doesnt she?


I think that the idea of creating puppets and armies would be the effects of the tablets and the human prisoners as well as her harem. Though in my opinion all three used for one purpose seems too many, I think only one is intended and the rest we don't know. As you have revealed Sara's plan may also work the same with Asato's plan--to exterminate pbs--but she also wants to be queen.
Are their plans really similar?
Sara says something that might be enlightening:
The cooperation from the compromised agreement as well as the promise are unreliable things, that they will be broken down someday.
I will put on my fangs to break the agreement without consent.

What's the agreement? IF this agreement is connected with what she discussed with the president, then she is breaking down their connections... As you have revealed nicely there Sara had visited the president before (perhaps that time the agreement was made, whatever it is), the pharmacy was supported by the Ichijous and Sara was a good girl to the senate which indicated their connections == in short, Sara and the pharmacy president are supposed to be in good terms until that moment. Hence she said, The cooperation from the compromised agreement as well as the promise are unreliable things, that they will be broken down someday.
I will put on my fangs to break the agreement without consent.
From my understanding here in relation to the above, Sara made an agreement and a promise with the pharmacy company owned by Ichijou during her last visit to him stating that she will cooperate in supplying them blood for the research. However it was "compromised", perhaps because the president, as he said, now decided to use the research to understand the danger of the purebloods---the statement itself seems to be anti pureblood and pro peace, so it goes against Asato and Sara's ideas in some way. Maybe Sara found out about this when she visited the president (chapter 65), and realized their agreement/promise became "unreliable" because it was already "compromised", hence she decided to "take into her fangs" to cut down their connections forcibly and literally by turning the president into her puppet-- thereby forcing him to agree on his terms "without consent".

So she "used" the president's research (which was also cofounded by Asato) for her own goal to "create terrible things sooner or later", so the question is what is it? It has something to do with "understanding dangers of the purebloods" I think like you said that pureblood blood was used in this research that might contain information to their capabilities, strengths, weaknesses, etc. If Sara is going to use this kind of info, how? She can use the tablets as her medium when she finds out how to exploit this, so far thats the only thing we see she's doing that's affecting the masses.
But somehow it doesnt match
tablets = puppets and armies OR
tablets = bring down purebloods?

hmmm...

I think it is both.. Like you said nina, its quite possible that Sara already made a first batch of tablets before the oval shaped ones were manufactured and distributed. She captured the president at chapter 65. In chapter 66 Kaname was taking a glass filled with what looked like diluted blood tablets, its a possibility (but not too convincing) that he had taken Sara's tablets there IF she had used the pres' research on purebloods.
Also Yuki could possibly have taken the tampered ones too because Sara has in her hands knowledge about purebloods and she would probably use that to help her become queen by targetting the Kurans. The mangaka had magnified both panels of Kaname taking the diluted tablets AND with Yuki's tablets (they were shown to be round), they were BOTH shown to be thirsty prior to taking it as shown when they caress their throat. Somehow the mirror images and emphasis seems too coincidental..

And my opinion is that this is Kaname’s ultimate scope >> to create the conditions so every party in this battle to take its place … no one is “a priori” innocent or rightful or guilty. Every one will have to make the final decision which will lead to the next day …

I agree it seems to be that way, I think it is just one of the many reasons though. Kaname's actions also seem to be more like a major scandal in vampire society: vampire leader who pledged peace and had history of being a pacifist suddenly goes around killing "all" and causing chaos... it is bound to upset the loyal followers of "fear-and-respect-the-pureblood"
This undoubtedly opened a huge spotlight rotating around him as the centerpiece, so yes he wants to be noticed and serve as a message for everyone.. though right now no one's actually moving to do something lol, on the contrary they cower more and feel more oppressed (*points at the pureblood who thinks being killed by hunters is OK*) Rima and Yuki showed they're not that empowered by Kaname's actions, LOL.

My belief is that it would be wrong from the author to convey such message … that in a better world the PBs have no place. In my mind the meaning of a successful co-existence is all the species to be present … the idea of pacifism cannot identify with the erasure of a whole race.

yes I agree with you, we've seen purebloods have as much right to live as others, but purebloods existence also creates trouble when they make Level Es so I wonder how they will be allowed to live in the end without causing further conflicts for race.

* He killed Hanadagi but not his family who was in slumber as well.

Hanadagi’s servant: “then please tell him, that the Hanadagi clan, who pride their pureblood lineage, wants nothing to do with outside power struggles. This is where my master and family decided to rest five hundred years ago...” (chapter 52)
So why he didn’t exterminate Hanadagi’s family?

in another translation it says, the Hanadagi only consisted of one member, that is the head who was killed, though I'm not sure if thats how it was meant.. If there are indeed more of them makes sense that Kaname is not killing all.

Ergo I think that Kaname a) has specific reasons for killing Hana, Hio
and Touma, (that I’m not gonna analyze in this post) b) he wants
everybody to believe that his OP is to kill ALL the PBs, c) he is
attacking at their castles on purpose >> declaration of war.

it seems so we still don't know if he's going after other purebloods since he's not finished yet. He probably have a target selection like "only the heads of the families" and so far the streak hasn't been broken..
and exactly who is spreading the news that he's killing ALL? Kaname or someone else?? we have at least three evidences where he only targets the heads... and somehow the news that reaches the vampires ears is "he's wiping out the families". o.o

@ Nina you are welcome, it's my joy you know that...

@Sweet the script expands i believe if we just see that the current action is not CURRENT at all, it's actually a continuation, because the war never ended...and that's a crucial point to see in VK and in Kaname's plan in overall...

Let me state in the manga's words...

“It engulfs everything….so violently..so when ‘it” first begin?”

Another question has the war ever ended?

Now if we just go back in volume 1 and let’s remember the introduction to the series (from the volumes);

" Since ancient times hidden from history a war has waged between humans and vampires..."

Cross: I want to put an end at the war between humans and vampires, a war that has been continueying in the darkness of history since ancient times! I want the young vampires with their intelligence, unfettered hearts to become a bridge between the two species.

With the above line, I think that we can be certain that the war between humans and vampires has not ended because the existence of the vampires is a secret and the human government refuses to recognize their existence. This forces all parts that are involved to move behind the curtains; so threats are not exactly visible.

Conflicts that concern the humans;


Cross, “The existence of vampires has not been approved by the government, so Yuuki you must keep it as a secret”

This leads me into thinking;
After the first wars with humans and the establishment of the Kuran monarchy many millennia passed and the existence of vampires was forgotten from the general public (humans) that were not interfering with the vampire society.
But we now see that vampires are actually singers, actors, politicians and are blending more and more in the human society but no human government accepts their existence.
Perhaps this also allows humans to freely feel that they can exploit the human blood –especially pureblood due to their powers; (apparently killing a vampire is no crime since vampires do not exist)
From the fanbook:
There are also humans who are trying to join forces with the Senate to take advantage of the powers of vampires.
From the official volumes;

Yagari to Cross (vol.11)
The directors strongly influence world politics and the financial markets. They may not know exact the identities of the students but prestigious families are more than enough to interest them. And few who know about vampires can not wait to use the abilities and technologies of the vampires to their advantage. They have hopes of getting hopes of getting “vampires life spans” to work with humans…They are no different from the last president…and that vampire who tried to get a your adopted daughter..”

Yuuri to Kaien (vol.10) : or perhaps you planned to capture me and sell me to someone who desires vampire blood as a miracle cure?

Kaien to the ex-president of HA: “A purebloods blood can be poisonous or give energy…the vampire who gave you blood was very assertive…you thought you took on its own powers, but it devoured you instead. HOW MUCH DID YOU CONCEDE TO THE SENATE…IN EXCHANGE FOR THAT BLOOD…


So yes, there are certain humans that can try and take advantage of the fact that vampires have no real name and identity in the real world.

Apparently this point also calls for a change; humans should acknowledge vampires not only because that’s reality but also for the vampire’s protection/humans protection.

But can vampires under the certain conditions be acknowledged? No, because their instincts would eventually make all the co-existence plan to collapse. So there is a need that the vampire society resolves her issues first, before reaching the point where she can initiate a civilized bargain with humans' government.

Right now in vampire society there is a struggle for power and domination for the human kind, apparently that's a drop back, coexistence can not achieve under this circumstances;

Issues that concern vampires;

Under this aspect Vampires that share Asato’s perceptions are dooming all vampires in the darkness. Let’s see vampire society main issue here which is the struggle over power;

Asato to Takuma: The power of that blood that can control us all at will, purebloods are the natural enemies…

Haruka to Kaname; "I know you are hiding Yuki's existence from the other vampires...
Haruka: Nowadays the senate is trying to control our existence as long as the power of our blood...

A question here how is the Senate trying to gain control over the existence of the purebloods>and eventually and her supporters from the human world? Doesn’t it sound a bit of paradoxical since the purebloods are able to control everyone around them? and here is the necessary division of the two…

-Purebloods that support pacifism like the Kurans and in order to avoid a war do not act against the senate in their effort to maintain the balance but they pay it with their own life (and Isaya can be another case here as he fits the description –Kuran alliance)
-Purebloods that are collaborating with the senate because they wish to exterminate the Kurans, that are the main barrier between them and humanity, and later gain the control over the senate> like Sara, Rido.

Here there is also a case scenario that involves Hio with as much as the clues that are revealed in the manga (unfortunately not many)...

according to the fanbook…

“was locked in confinement right after she was born and given humans as food.”

Now who reasonable father or mother would give his own daughter to the senate – from birth? >striking difference from the Kurans that kept Yuuki’s identity a secret.
Apparently Hio had no good intentions or never supported pacifism> Kurans> because their wants were the same with the Senate and expressed through Asato> take notice of “she was given humans as food” because here all the peace idea collapses within a few words, and Hio family was behind the act through their silent collaboration> they are purebloods and can not be forced into giving their daughter. So what was the excuse of delivering a pureblood in a cage since birth to the Senate’s intentions?

Also take in mind Kaname’s words to the Senate that the CONDITION of vampires has NOT changed ever since he entered slumber. So regardless of Shizuka’s age, the Senate had been the same after a point of time and so their final intentions.

There are many questions considering Shizuka but let’s keep in mind that ever since she was locked in a cage that meant that the Senate could have been using her blood to make experiments and also to develop a new weapon that could come handy in the near future.

Let's see Asato's words from the official volume;

Asato reveals his plan to Takuma;
When I was young, from the very first day i saw their awesome powers...one idea gradually grew in my mind..to manipulate purebloods into devouring one another to their ultimate destruction, the being Rido-same awakened is no exception. The power of that blood, which can control us all at will purebloods are the natural enemies of the vampire society...

IMO what mostly interest Asato here is the controlling powers, because they are the key so that he can take overall control of the vampire society if his plan with Rido is fruitful and the Kurans who are the last barrier of pacifism fall, Asato can gain the game by then controlling the rest of the vampires in a mass rate while he relaxes and enjoys the game as the purebloods (alliances or not) will initiate a war to claim the throne.

If we know take into account the ex-president's words;
“I struggled to have them allow you to go on living …” so apparently the hunter one way or another were are to be exterminated.
_


Here I will say that we see now that it’s impossible that Kaname wants to kill all purebloods, if he had wanted that then apparently a collaboration with Asato (replacing Rido) and his position in the vampire society, while he could also have secured Yuuki far more than now, would allow him to become the ultimate master and even hiding behind the Senate’s order (if he really wanted).

Kaname crushes Asato and the Senate as they can no longer differentiate the right from wrong, the bad from the good as he says to the Senate and when he is asked from Yagari to justify his acts he says:

“I did it to protect the precious future as they were devouring everything on their way”…

Meaning as a future Yuuki and also I believe with her and all the nightclass and his young supporters who are different from the elders>

from the fanbook….

“Most vampires feel superior to humans because of their abilities but lots of young vampires support the previous head of the Kuran family, who was a pacifist and Kaname Kuran who is spending time with humans at the academy. “

I think that Asato's plans unrolls a bit anyone can see that this is also Sara's game because it merely follows the same strategy and NOT Kaname's game.

Asato knew Sara and it seems that she wisely collaborated with him until the point that his plan fitted her own plans; Also if Asato as Nina mentioned in her previous post had the idea to exploit the tablets to his benefit, therefore he was conducting a research on how to manipulate the pureblood powers to achieve ultimate control, in reality Sara has all the weapons that she needs.

Intriguing question about the tablets with all reservation; who developed them and had the idea?

In volume 1 the professor says to the NC;
“the effectiveness of the blood tablets developed by our night class has been verified all over the world> and here we can see their popularity, you students are the pride of our school and of the night clan.”

However…

Spoiler:

So who was the developer and the initial mastermind behind the tablets?
The NC improved them; but why would Asato promote them or even allow their distribution since the tablets if they became popular and effective (as they did) could stop vampires from thinking to satisfy their instincts in a natural way? They could be tasteless but promising.

Asato seems to know well the Shirabuki family

Sara intended to ask from Ichiou to give her Takuma aka they collaborate;
‘From the official volume 11;

“if I hadn’t stepped in you’d have lost your life as well…I am glad. I was going to ask Ichio to give you to me, I can now use you to see how Kaname will make his move….I am so glad that I have a good little soldier in my hands.”

(with the above lines its also implied that it was Sara that killed Asato or Takuma would have been killed).

Notice also in the above lines…
“How Kaname will make his move…”

1. She had intended to tell to Ichiou to hand her Takuma eventually that means that her plan would be in accordance with Ichiou’s plan…as Ichiou would not hand Takuma unless the benefits were mutual
2. What move is she expecting Kaname to make? So the game still continues and it is also confirmed by Kaname's words to the senate: "You will be the first ones..."
3. Sara knows that Kaname has a plan but she needs to know more about the enemy from Takuma in order to see how to adjust better her game.

And here falls to her hands the vital information that Kaname is the Kuran's progenitor. How is this information going to help her?

It can help her because (IMO) she knows the threats that she needs to summon in order to provoke him into action and create conflict among the purebloods...even Aido-dono knows about it...

Spoiler:

...and also knows his weakness (Yuuki).


Back to the ball Kaname says to Kain that he wants to make obvious who he cares to protect most. (paraphrasing his intention). So in other words...Kaname has uncovered publicly the one person that he cares about the most to all...

apparently whoever gets that message does not seem to care enough for that"protection" but wants to use that spot in order to stir up things...

and on the first day that Yuuki steps out of the house Touma initializes an attack...

Notice that Touma so ironically uses Kaname's age as being too young in relation to him. Totally ironic and naive for Touma to say that and actually to provoke with a double hit the new vampire leader.

I think that perhaps Touma's last words.."I have been used" may indicate a different meaning that the one that we are assuming> he could have collaborated with Sara in order to create more conflict with a certain exchange but Sara could have passed him the wrong notes (Lol)> if this is the case then Sara had no doubts who would get the other one out of the game.

in another translation it says, the Hanadagi only consisted of one member, that is the head who was killed, though I'm not sure if thats how it was meant.. If there are indeed more of them makes sense that Kaname is not killing all.

@Sweet according to the translation that I have from the official volumes the guardian says; "this is where my master and family decided to rest five hundred years ago...please tell him to use his authority as the former ruling family of the vampire world to keep any lawless people away from this place for at least four hundred years more...we all need a long rest every now and then to continue the never-ending journey, if we get to spend...everything will start to wear out..."

and the manga continues with Kaname's despair one panel below "everything will wear out and fall out of my hands.."

which is also an indication for a long path for both Hanadagi and Kaname if you combine it.

And if you combine the words that Kaname says to Yuuki relating to purebloods that lose their meaning in life and gradually and the desire to have kids that applies to Ouri's case as Sara also describes it.

Isaya says that he is 2000 years old.

I know that I do not go so much into Kaname's plan but I am describing the others and the conditions feeling that its good to refresh our memory and perhaps see things as they started...apparently a long, long time ago than expected. Therefore Kaname's plan still applies today since obviously now more than ever there are people to protect through his plan and a new generation -the younger ones can - after the safety he applies- become the bridge.

Perhaps Kaname leaves the space for all the "armies" to take place while he eliminates his own devils - that leads to the wrong assumption that he KILLS all purebloods..but where? and how? Hanadagi's family is alive, Touma's sister is alive and also Hio's.

Thanks sweet! *hugs back*

sweetsolace wrote: I'm also leaning towards that suspicion but in another way, Hanadagi is an important pureblood who has to have special defenses around him, perhaps he protects something, something that he possesses? Somehow I'm not sure if he's a good or bad pureblood but he seems ancient, knowledgeable and superior pureblood from his actions

I also believe that Hanadagi was a special case due to his high protection. It’s very possible also to be an ancestor himself. When Kaname went to kill Asato he revealed a) that Kaname is an ancestor which means he knew about Kaname’s past and b) that are existing other ancestors as well >>

Asato: “It’s an honor that ONE of OUR reawakened ANCESTORS would do such a thing for me…”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-43/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html

Hanadagi has the profile to be an ancestor and his move to hypnotize Aido-dono for devouring him reinforces the possibility to be an evil PB.
The idea that Hana somehow was involved with Kaname’s wife death is based on two hints:
1. Why; Yuuki’s question to Kaname >>
Yuuki: “My strong and beautiful Kaname. Why would you want me?
Kaname: "Why"...you ask.” (this portion if from the official volume)

>> “Why me?” has as an answer this tragic memory where is depicted Hanadagi’s castle???>>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

2. Why Kaname was monitoring Hana’s castle prior Sara kills Ouri who was the “key” for destroying Hana’s shield. There must be an additional reason except Hana’s powers … a reason more personal for Kaname which would “force” him to step in immediately. That reason could be Kaname’s tragedy.
This also could be an answer to the question you pointed out >>

Sara worded out what she had done as something like a war, which Aido-dono also recognized with fear.
She had done something that should be feared and would create conflict. Kaname seems to shield her from suspicion by owing up to her crimes while she stirs this conflict more in her own soup of chaos. The question is how long will he allow her, does she know she is shielded and is taking advantage of this as well, or doesnt she?

Right! Was she looked feared at all? I think she was very calm and confident that her move to awake Hana and steal his heart wouldn’t have consequences for her at that moment. If she knew that by awakening Hana was also awakening a personal threat/enemy for Kaname then this could be her shield from Hana >>
Kaname would be bound to finish him off for her. And how she knew that Kaname would step in the right moment? >>Sara knew pretty well that Kaname figured out that she killed Ouri >> Ouri’s death was the key to reach Hana i.e. Kaname would be stupid not to keep an eye on her and Sara knows that he isn’t lol.

Now, the two theories that Hana was special and that he might be connected with Kaname’s tragedy can combine beautifully … aren’t controversial but interrelated. ^^

so I don't think it has to do with invading a castle. It looked like he used Sara attacking Hanadagi as the trigger for him to start creating chaos too.

I totally agree! Cuz … could Kaname stop Sara from invading Hana’s castle? Yes … I think he could. But this move from Sara served his Original Plan.

My opinion is that Kaname’s plan is multilevel. He has specific reasons for killing off these PBs’ heads … reasons that have to do with their acts in the past and in the present, but he doesn’t reveal these reasons. By doing that is forming the idea that his intention is indeed to kill ALL the PBs indiscriminately. I mean if his killings haven’t an obvious specific reason behind them, then everybody will lead to think that his killings are “unjustified” and generalized >> exactly what Kaname is trying to reinforce also by lying that he killed Ouri. He wants to be seen as the villain … as the one who declares war by attacking PBs into their castles …
For how long he’s gonna cover Sara? I think till everyone drop the mask and take its position >> pro or anti coexistence??? For example, the hunters have shown their true colours … that were never actually supported the idea of co-existence. If Kaname reveals later that he hadn’t the intention to wipe off the entire PB’s race what will be hunters’ position then? Aren’t exposed? Also Sara hasn’t reveal yet her entire plan … has allies? The humans in powerful positions what is their role?

Now as I said I believe that Kaname has specific reasons for killing Hana, Hio and Touma. And maybe somehow the reasons are connected with Yuuki and her safety i.e. with Yuuki’s existence and her status as the LAST Kuran princess.

* Hanadagi >> involved with Kaname’s wife death in the past or at least is related with his grief over the shattered mirror.

* Hio: The hint behind his annihilation it might be hidden into Aido-dono’s wording about the most sinful crime in PBs history. >>

Aido-dono: “At times … Kaname sama will not even hesitate to sacrifice us brutally … I heard that from the deceased Ichiou …”
Kaname thought that Aido-dono was referring on senate’s annihilation but Aido corrected him and said >>
Aido-dono: “No … it’s the thing further before (means before senate’s/Asato’s killings) … It’s a little before Shizuka-sama become missing. You participated in the most sinful crime of the PBs.” (chapter 65)

Now … Shizuka disappeared after she killed the Kiryuus. Also at that time Kaname was a child. In what could he participate?
But before Shizuka went missing the only known (to us) incident is the attack at Kuran’s mansion from Rido (aided and planned from the senate) with the intention to steal and sacrifice Yuuki and maybe to kill the rest of the Kurans cuz I suppose they wouldn’t hand over Yuuki just like that lol.

This incident led to death 2 PBs, Haruka and Juuri and Kaname participated by scattering Rido to pieces and by covering up the truth about that night, just like Asato and the senate wanted! The official reason for the vampires’ society about Juuri’s and Haruka’s death was suicide. Also as is stated in the fanbook the murder of PB considered as the biggest crime.

So that incident couldn’t be described as the most sinful crime??? I think it could since an orchestrated scheme led to the death of 2 Kurans.

Now, my speculation is that in this scheme the Hio family it might be involved.
Hints:

1. The reference from Aido-dono to Shizuka HIO.
2. Shizuka was caged her entire life from the senate which indicates the cooperation between the senate and the Hio’s clan.
3. Shizuka was Rido’s fiancée, which means that this engagement was with senate’s approval and maybe was the exchange that Hio took in return for his cooperation.
4. Asato as he stated used/manipulated the Kuran family, Kaname as a child and especially Rido as tools to control vampires’ society. Rido was giving his blood and played the “stallion” for noble pro-senate families who wanted to reinforce their bloodline. In exchange Asato aid Rido to become the head of the Kurans i.e. to become the leader of vampires. And that it might be the bait for the Hio … if their daughter Shizuka was Rido’s fiancée then they wouldn’t increase their power and influence into vampire’s society? If so, then wouldn’t be for their best interest if the rest of the Kurans cease to exist?
Also if my memory serves me right I think Kaien had said that the Hio family was distinguished among the other PBs … almost at the same level as the Kurans. If so then perhaps without the Kurans they could be the next in the row family who had the “right” to claim the leadership. (?)
Anyway my point is that Hio could have the motive and the opportunity as Asato’s ally to be involved into senate’s schemes which first of all wanted the Kurans out off the picture. So there it might lay the reason of why Kaname killed Hio’s head.

*Touma:
He attacked Yuuki for none obvious reason, why? Was he so stupid? Because he knew pretty well who Yuuki was. Also he didn’t attend at Kaname’s ball BUT he was informed about Yuuki’s circumstances >>

- Touma: “ You must be the SHELTERED little brat from the Kurans …”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-49597-25/vampire-knight/chapter-59.html

- “First off the stage is FINALLY STARTING TO MOVE towards the bloody violence I love so much…”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-49597-26/vampire-knight/chapter-59.html

I think Touma’s words foreshorten the reasons and the intentions of the PBs who are against the Kurans, viz against coexistence.

Why the stage had started to move finally? Yuuki had done nothing to provoke him.
At that time Kaname hadn’t done any move towards any PB … so?
What was the trigger which set the bloody stage in motion???

IMO Touma’s wording hinted on Yuuki’s revelation as the last Kuran princess and Kaname’s fiancée (sheltered brat) and perhaps on the new contract that Kaname signed with the hunters (coexistence) and moreover as THE LEADER of vampires (his tone when he called Kaname “leader of our people” was like a mockery).

So the trigger was the ball where Kaname would count his allies (pro-coexistence, pro Kurans)>>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-26/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html
>> and would make clear to the entire society WHO is the person he intend to protect the most >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-33723-26/vampire-knight/chapter-54.html

juliet wrote: I think that perhaps Touma's last words.."I have been used" may indicate a different meaning that the one that we are assuming> he could have collaborated with Sara in order to create more conflict with a certain exchange but Sara could have passed him the wrong notes (Lol)> if this is the case then Sara had no doubts who would get the other one out of the game.

This is also a very logical possibility! His unprovoked assault to Yuuki may be explained if he was Sara’s pawn.

My point is that bottom line the trigger/magnet for all the evil forces is Yuuki herself … for what she symbolize or for her “special blood” or for what she could bring the path that she’ll walk, or IMO for all the above.

If Yuuki cease to exist wouldn’t stop the bloodline of the Kurans? Wouldn’t be nullified the core of the pacifism i.e. the Kurans? Isn’t this the main goal for every evil force?

juliet wrote: the Kurans who are the last barrier of pacifism fall, Asato can gain the game by then controlling the rest of the vampires in a mass rate while he relaxes and enjoys the game as the purebloods (alliances or not) will initiate a war to claim the throne.

Exactly!!! The last barrier of pacifism is the Kurans (loved that phrase lol) … and in Asato’s place could be Sara now or every force that is anti-coexistence.

sweetsolace wrote: I think that the idea of creating puppets and armies would be the effects of the tablets and the human prisoners as well as her harem. Though in my opinion all three used for one purpose seems too many, I think only one is intended and the rest we don't know.

Yes you’re right. I don’t think either that her army, the harem and the human prisoners are serving the same purpose.
My interpretation is:
- The army will be created from the vampires who’ll take her tabs >> puppets, ready to sacrifice for her in the upcoming war that she expects.
- The human prisoners were needed as blood suppliers for the tabs. Either she made a batch before she enters at the Cross academy, either for the oval ones, she needed human blood. Human blood for quantity and her blood or maybe even Hana’s heart for the quality=the side effects she wishes to have the users.
- The harem hm … Isn’t very clear its purpose. But my feeling currently, is that she made the harem aiming to break the mutual agreement she was talking about. >>
“The cooperation from the compromised agreement as well as the promise are unreliable things, that they will be broken down someday.
I will put on my fangs to break the agreement without consent.”

I think she was referring on the agreement that Kaname recently had signed with the hunters. That contract “sealed” the promise for cooperation between to parties who weren’t exactly under good terms i.e. they compromised (settlement by making concessions) for a common benefit … co-existence. But as we know and saw that agreement was indeed fragile … with the first small opportunity broken down as Sara predicted. Which was the excuse? >> Sara’s harem >> “I will put on my fangs to break the agreement” >> and she did it. Her openly almost provocative move to turn girls into vampires raised suspicions for Kaname’s intentions. Why he didn’t stop her? << Wasn’t this the question that the hunters had? Wasn’t this the excuse to arrest Hanabusa; Kaname’s right hand? Therefore her harem served its purpose.

yes I agree with you, we've seen purebloods have as much right to live as others, but purebloods existence also creates trouble when they make Level Es so I wonder how they will be allowed to live in the end without causing further conflicts for race.

I agree too. It is a tough equation. As long as PBs exist there is always the possibility for new conflicts. But can Hino want to create an utopia? A perfect world? A sterilized from evil society? IMO that would be wrong cuz is inexistent.

That’s why I said above that Kaname’s plan should be multilevel >> he uprooting specific threats (his own devils as juliet said) that aiming on Yuuki i.e. coexistence, but synchronously using these killings to make a point and sent several messages to many directions (PBs, vampires, hunters). The real coexistence will come through the change of twisted notions >>






http://www.mangareader.net/104-29253-25/vampire-knight/chapter-53.html

Juliet described vividly the VK world through passages from the manga and the fandbook. In this world the rotten fruit isn’t only the PBs.

So even if Kaname annihilates ALL the PBs would the evilness cease to exist? Sure there aren’t gonna be any more level-es and sure less conflicts, but that will change the way the noble vampires are seeing the humans as inferiors and as food? Would change the hunters’ instinct for hunting down vampires just cuz are “beasts”?? Would stop the humans to want to exploit vampires’ blood for their superior intelligence/powers and longevity? Is Yuuki’s safety guaranteed under these circumstances even if she’ll be the only remained PB? I don’t think so.

So the only problem is the PBs? Apparently no. The idea of co-existence doesn’t mean only cease-fire but the uprooting of all the ways, “morals” and twist notions.

In ancient times existed PBs who aided Kaname to the wars against the PBs who wanted to turn the mankind into slaves. Maybe still exist such PBs with this mentality that with their good example will help more in uprooting the established attitudes and amoral traditions.
Yuuki certainly has a role to play for the change of wind hence the importance of her protection.
The way I see it … Yuuki’s protection=protection of real co-existence=protection of a precious brighter future for all.