Vampire Knight Chapter 72 - SCANLATED!

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Yeah I translated chapter 72 myself and thought I would share it, it is the first time I have made a scanlation so sorry if it is not perfect

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Spoiler:

sweetsolace wrote:Agree with libra, Kaname at that time was teaching her how to use her fangs, he even locked her up in her room, wound his wrist and then pull it away from her so she can concentrate on biting his neck, but Yuki was spoiled so she's still biting from his wrist. They did this for 6 mos, if im not mistaken, so it doesnt make sense for Kaname to allow her to take blood tablets at that period.
About Yuki sensing others blood easily, it could be so, but it would only be her palate that has this ability, and in any case, would be ..well, weird sense of taste

Spoiler:

maybe she's just having a sentimental moment with the lives lost in the creation of the tablets?

YUKI: one more reason I shouldn't drink this..unpleasant thing just think of all the poor humans who has to donate this blood. oh the horror!


^Yuki making excuses not to take the tablets~

Ι understand that for Yuuki the fist impression she has on the tablets can be a negative one, I do not know about what she can sense or not but as we see she is considering it not to be pleasant due to the fact that neither the taste nor the origins of the tablets make her feel comfortable. So in that way there is the contrast between the familiar blood of a beloved person, that she used to deny in the past, and to the unknown cells of blood that the tablets are made from and she is forced to take now in order to soothe herself. Spoiled days are over for Yuuki now I think..it's the reverse action, now she has to survive on her either she likes it or not. Perhaps she can estimate more in this way Kaname's attention? perhaps...

We also see a focus on the tablets, we know that Sara is about to change or has already changed them, so perhaps Hino wants to worry us a bit there...

Does Maria Know that Ichiru´s dead? I was expecting to see her talking about it >____<

Vanille-chan wrote:Does Maria Know that Ichiru´s dead? I was expecting to see her talking about it >____<

Yes she does! She heard it, first thing when she woke up after Shizuka leaving her body.

libra wrote:

Vanille-chan wrote:Does Maria Know that Ichiru´s dead? I was expecting to see her talking about it >____<

Yes she does! She heard it, first thing when she woke up after Shizuka leaving her body.

No, he was still alive then. She was told that he'd left and that Shizuka was dead, she didn't want to believe Kaien that Shizuka was dead. She was searching for Ichiru in ch45.

But I imagine a year on, she finally got the news and knows by now, at the very least I can't imagine her seeing Zero and not asking about Ichiru if she still thought he was alive and then Zero not admitting Ichiru was dead.

I can't help but wonder why it was wrong for Yuuki to use blood tablets and not to learn to use her fangs, its not like the blood tablets are such a great temptation and she can't drink from just anyone anyway. Its not actually that she didn't know how to use them, she just couldn't emotionally face it and she needed to learn to deal with her emotions, blood tablets weren't going to change that or help her avoid it, because he was drip feeding her anyway.

And if Kaname thought blood tablets would overwhelm Yuuki or affect her negatively because of her powers, it would have been much wiser to actually tell her (and Aidou) that.

But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

Knightmare you are right on that! My mistake. It was Shizuka's death that she heard when she woke up!

libra wrote:

Vanille-chan wrote:Does Maria Know that Ichiru´s dead? I was expecting to see her talking about it >____<

Yes she does! She heard it, first thing when she woke up after Shizuka leaving her body.

No, I do not think so. Maybe I´m wrong, but in chapter 26 (when she wakes up), she realizes that Zero isn´t Ichiru. She deduces that Shizuka was killed, but in Chapter 26 Ichiru still alive. Ichiru died on Rido´s arc.
I don´t think she knows. Or she may have used animals spies to find him.
Anyway, I just find strange Hino doesn´t mention this point. Especially since Maria was very close to him and I thought she might find that Zero killed his brother. But the last chapter displayed that she isn´t angry with Zero, so she doesn´t think it.

I really hope to see some answers soon. The LT is getting more complicated now (in fact, now, it´s like a love square).

And if Kaname thought blood tablets would overwhelm Yuuki or affect her negatively because of her powers, it would have been much wiser to actually tell her (and Aidou) th

Well, Kaname also drank the blood tablets. Even when Nagamichi (Aido) was talking to him, he drank the tablets. I just think he did not let Yuki drink tablets because he just wants her to drink his blood. That's it.

Knightmare wrote:

I can't help but wonder why it was wrong for Yuuki to use blood tablets and not to learn to use her fangs, its not like the blood tablets are such a great temptation and she can't drink from just anyone anyway. Its not actually that she didn't know how to use them, she just couldn't emotionally face it and she needed to learn to deal with her emotions, blood tablets weren't going to change that or help her avoid it, because he was drip feeding her anyway.

And if Kaname thought blood tablets would overwhelm Yuuki or affect her negatively because of her powers, it would have been much wiser to actually tell her (and Aidou) that.

But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

About the powers I do not think that is a secret, also about Yuuki using her fangs I thinks she also knew it, she just could not do it, due to her past/nature as human, so her psychological problem was creating her a physical one as she also trembled.

Spoiler:

From the official viz release Kaname's words go like that "Are the memories from your human life getting in the way? I would like to wait until you become the person that you want to be, but....This cannot wait.Yuuki,you must drink using your own fangs, you are no longer a child you know".

So she knows that her solution to the problem is using her fangs and taking the blood from the person that she loves, that is comfort (said to her in the previous chapter). Not taking the tablets, that would not offer her the real adaptation she needs, in her real life, and neither would really comfort her since she was depriving herself from real blood.

It's not a big deal, but apparently she should start from the basing I guess, (like you need first to chew and eat properly before you take food supplements in the form of pills)....One, two, three, the basics...

blood tablets would eventually just postpone the problem, that she would have eventually to deal with...so how much wasted time there would be (?), not to mention chapters...LOL

Which I have to admit in a way reminds me of Zero (of course he shows more worrying signs) but it does remind me that he is also a deprived from real blood vampire (also new) and he neither uses his fangs to satisfy that part of his nature, I think that also plays a role into keeping his vampire side content and in control. It would help perhaps to ease the burden.

Knightmare wrote:
No, he was still alive then. She was told that he'd left and that Shizuka was dead, she didn't want to believe Kaien that Shizuka was dead. She was searching for Ichiru in ch45.

Vanille-chan wrote:
No, I do not think so. Maybe I´m wrong, but in chapter 26 (when she wakes up), she realizes that Zero isn´t Ichiru. She deduces that Shizuka was killed, but in Chapter 26 Ichiru still alive. Ichiru died on Rido´s arc.

yes, here:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2146-23/vampire-knight/chapter-26.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2146-24/vampire-knight/chapter-26.html

About assuming that she doesn't know Ichiru's dead...hmm I don't think so? See the way she talks about Zero as "Ichiru's brother" seems like a hint that she's not thinking of him anymore, also I agree Maria seems to be someone assigned to check the incidents happening around vampire society (she uses birds to fly around and see whats happening thats how she informed her father that Kaname killed the council) so she knows what going around. Perhaps Including ichiru's death. Ichiru also has a grave in a graveyard, surely there must be funeral to hold his service.... and with a funeral there would be guests informed about it, the ones closes to Ichiru would be informed.. Maria would be there, I'm sure.

knightmare wrote:
I can't help but wonder why it was wrong for Yuuki to use blood tablets and not to learn to use her fangs, its not like the blood tablets are such a great temptation and she can't drink from just anyone anyway. Its not actually that she didn't know how to use them, she just couldn't emotionally face it and she needed to learn to deal with her emotions, blood tablets weren't going to change that or help her avoid it, because he was drip feeding her anyway.

And if Kaname thought blood tablets would overwhelm Yuuki or affect her negatively because of her powers, it would have been much wiser to actually tell her (and Aidou) that.

But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

Vanille-chan wrote:
Well, Kaname also drank the blood tablets. Even when Nagamichi (Aido) was talking to him, he drank the tablets. I just think he did not let Yuki drink tablets because he just wants her to drink his blood. That's it.

oho... the usual Kaname-hate that blinds all logic...

however Juliet already answered splendidly
well done, Juliet-nii~

in addition, Yuki as a vampire it was essential for her to learn the basics for vampires which is to drink blood via fangs, blood tablets are only secondary measures to get blood, and lol why go for something as unsatisfying unpleasant as blood tablet when there's real blood? this confuses me.

@ merci solace but I do think that part is obvious, Yuuki needs her first vampire consuming the real thing lessons...

now about the tablets, they seem to be the focus of the current chapters...
they are supplements, created by the Nightclass, we already said that there are two types (as mentioned in the fanbook) the common tablets that Yuuki here uses and the ones kaname solely uses.

So they were developped to comfort the vampires from their need to consume blood, they are not the real food, they are nothing more than a consolidation, but with a great effect, as they seem to cease and to handle the urge to drink blood.

So it is to ask, why a vampire when having a mate or relatives or in general people with whom he/she could share blood and completely satisfy that vampire instict would use tablets. They have seem to have been developped for purposes where sources of blood are not available.

example: when Kaname wanted to bite Yuuki, when she was visting the moondorm in a younger age, and Ruka suggested to take her blood instead, he went for the real thing and not the tablets. So tablets are a substitute out of necessity, for the types that are alone and that stuff.

Now Sara messing with the tablets, can be a great disturbance in vampire society, and I think that she can aim directly at the core of co-existence with that move.
The tablets are taken/consumed to sustain the bloodthirst, if they no longer serve the purpose they were made for, then great violence could errupt between vampires (that are guided by their desire, driven by bloodlust) and humans.
And these episodes would erupt starting from the lowers in rank vampires, like in Zero's case. Zero had mentioned level d are not that far from level-e, they are balancing between logic and madness. So there the lack of tablets could make a great difference and effect.
Vampires biting humans, the hunters would have to come and start eliminating vampires that attack humans without permission to do so. Then the vampires would be also exposed to the eyes of the society (there seems to be humans that are aware of them but it does not seem to be a popular knowledge yet).
Finally vampires viewing humans as preys (the council's view)can turn to be Sara's supporters as she can promise to them complete freedom when she gets the power.
So tablets here can play a great importancy into preserving or destroying the peace between vampires and humans. Just thoughts...where the current plot can lead us.

Juliet, you said something interesting. We are almost sure about Sara & Zero, maybe she'll make him take the tablets. I think he´ll attack a human and this will put him in the list of hunters. Or Sara will kill humans and she´ll distort the situation, so people will believe that Zero did it.
Or he´ll go crazy and She´ll will offer to take care of him, gently, by herself. After all, LveE are controlled by the nobility.
And I really think when she has done that, she´ll erase Zero´s memories.

I think that she needs him in order to kill Kaname because profoundly Zero is the only one who could sustain the fight and deliver a lethal blow (without that of course excluding Zero's injury and death).
Now Kaname is the only one that she is literally afraid of, therefore she gathers powers (I guess in order to help in his extermination but also to persuade other vampires that she is the top vampire that they should follow).

I think that Zero's case is really interesting because Zero is really having a hard time dealing with his level-d nature, what trully sustains him right now are the tablets.
If they are altered and he loses that support he may be driven into biting out of his urges either Sara or Yuuki. (whereas maria should be the one if she has Shizuka's blood she could be his savior).
I think that Sara wants to uses his weakness so that Zero bites Yuuki and that would bring him in opposition to Kaname.
Kaname will be against Zero and the hunters that are after him while the rest of the vampires would be again divided againts those who would want Sara to be on power so that they can take humans as preys and the vampires that will remain and support Yuuki but on the other hand they will be afraid of Kaname.
So Kaname's supporters will narrow only to the nightclass and no others/ Kaname can protect himself and stay out of view but one thing that can make him appear is Yuuki. If she is in danger then he will appear.
It would be epic to see Kaname Vs Zero but I guess that to get that far, Zero must first fulfill (without understanding it Sara's plans). Who knows but the current plot has very good potential to be developped and it is very nice that it spreads in so many direction that we do not know which one Hino is going to follow, I do think though that she may surprise us as they are many side characters, Aido, Ruka, takuma, Cross, Maria that can influence the characters and change the course...

I think it's very possible that Sara is considering Zero to become her puppet... Zero is probably the most powerful vampire hunter alive right now, and if Sara is going to need someone who can kill a powerful pureblood like Kaname, Zero would be her best bet... She cannot kill Kaname just with the influence of blood tablets, nor with her slaves. She needs the tool of the antivampire weapon, and Zero, who can do this, also hates Kaname to a certain degree.. he would be the perfect pawn for her plans. Im not surprised Sara's circling around him like a vulture. perhaps she will offer him her specially made blood tablets to get him to submission.. .or she will use his hatred for Kaname to her advantage..

juliet wrote:

Knightmare wrote:
And if Kaname thought blood tablets would overwhelm Yuuki or affect her negatively because of her powers, it would have been much wiser to actually tell her (and Aidou) that.

About the powers I do not think that is a secret, also about Yuuki using her fangs I thinks she also knew it, she just could not do it, due to her past/nature as human, so her psychological problem was creating her a physical one as she also trembled.

No, I'm asking why didn't Kaname tell Yuuki (and Aidou who offered her tablets) that the tablets would be dangerous for her - if they actually were.

And yes, I agreed, Yuuki knew instinctively how to use her fangs, her emotional/psychological problems prevented her from using them. We see the resolution is her admission she wants Zero's blood coupled with Kaname's "punishment" that finally assuages her guilt and allows her to drink from Kaname again.

blood tablets would eventually just postpone the problem, that she would have eventually to deal with...so how much wasted time there would be (?), not to mention chapters...LOL

Starving a child with psychological issues about not eating will not get them over their issues of eating. Anything psychological means you need to deal with the problem directly, if you need to drip feed them to prevent injury then do so knowing it won't fix the problems. That means, Kaname feeding Yuuki his blood or blood tablets wouldn't make much difference. Coming back to the question of, why no blood tablets? Kaname was away a lot, leaving Yuuki in a distraught state alone when she could have used the blood tablets to assuage her hunger.

If you subscribe to the theory that satisfaction in whatever form will delay facing the issue, then tablets would have been a better option to keep insanity at bay without being very satisfying as opposed to Kaname's blood which she would have gained a little satisfaction. By that logic, then perhaps had Kaname given her blood tablets for a year instead of his blood then maybe it wouldn't have taken her a year to face the problem?

sweet solace wrote:

knightmare wrote:
But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

oho... the usual Kaname-hate that blinds all logic...

Is that the same as how the usual kaname-love is blind to logic that questions him?

in addition, Yuki as a vampire it was essential for her to learn the basics for vampires which is to drink blood via fangs, blood tablets are only secondary measures to get blood, and lol why go for something as unsatisfying unpleasant as blood tablet when there's real blood? this confuses me.

[/quote]
But Kaname wasn't always around to be a dispenser for Yuuki, so she suffered while he was not around, Aidou thought it logical and harmless enough to offer her the tablets when she was desperate i.e. thinking that an temporary alternative was fine if she wasn't sated by Kaname. The scene was there to make you wonder why she didn't have any.

Which led to the theories that Kaname doesn't offer them to her because they're harmful or that Kaname needed her to use her fangs on him is just as logical.

Knightmare wrote:

blood tablets would eventually just postpone the problem, that she would have eventually to deal with...so how much wasted time there would be (?), not to mention chapters...LOL

Starving a child with psychological issues about not eating will not get them over their issues of eating. Anything psychological means you need to deal with the problem directly, if you need to drip feed them to prevent injury then do so knowing it won't fix the problems. That means, Kaname feeding Yuuki his blood or blood tablets wouldn't make much difference. Coming back to the question of, why no blood tablets? Kaname was away a lot, leaving Yuuki in a distraught state alone when she could have used the blood tablets to assuage her hunger.

If you subscribe to the theory that satisfaction in whatever form will delay facing the issue, then tablets would have been a better option to keep insanity at bay without being very satisfying as opposed to Kaname's blood which she would have gained a little satisfaction. By that logic, then perhaps had Kaname given her blood tablets for a year instead of his blood then maybe it wouldn't have taken her a year to face the problem?

"child"? so you consider Yuki a "child" now?? im sorry im just under the assumption that zekis dislike that kaname treats yuki like a "child" and now you consider her as a starving "child"...
uh. ok.

Starving a child with psychological issues about not eating will not get them over their issues of eating.

this is not about psychological issues with eating. It's about using her fangs. Kaname had been trying to teach her that for half a year already.
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-50-page-27.html
http://manga.animea.net/vampire-knight-chapter-50-page-28.html

It is basic for vampires to use their fangs to get blood, it is probably fundamental to their survival. Blood tablets are substitutes for blood when its not permissible. And how do you know Kaname is starving her? He actually gave her blood.

Anything psychological means you need to deal with the problem directly,

exactly! Kaname is dealing with Yuki's psychological problem DIRECTLY. He is even the one tutoring her, not Aido or anyone else.

if you need to drip feed them to prevent injury then do so knowing it won't fix the problems.

what do you mean? what does this have to do with anything? "drip feed"?

That means, Kaname feeding Yuuki his blood or blood tablets wouldn't make much difference.

what do you mean, so he should let her starve? so she would learn the hard way? pls explain whats your pt.

Coming back to the question of, why no blood tablets? Kaname was away a lot, leaving Yuuki in a distraught state alone when she could have used the blood tablets to assuage her hunger.
If you subscribe to the theory that satisfaction in whatever form will delay facing the issue, then tablets would have been a better option to keep insanity at bay without being very satisfying as opposed to Kaname's blood which she would have gained a little satisfaction.

Kaname TAUGHT her the most basic despite his busy schedule and he didn't entrust Aido or anyone to do it, that infamous line that zekis love to use "vampires can only be satisfied by the blood of their loved ones" im honestly shock this line can be forgotten for one moment!

By that logic, then perhaps had Kaname given her blood tablets for a
year instead of his blood then maybe it wouldn't have taken her a year
to face the problem?

whaat??? what in the world are you suggesting , that Kaname should have educated her with blood tablets so she would be a vampire cripple for the rest of her life who relies on blood tablets all her life because kaname never taught her to use her fangs after her awakening??? what do you mean "a year " to face her problem, she been learning to use her fangs 6 MONTHS after she left the academy! Go read the manga again from the beginning.

sweet solace wrote:

knightmare wrote:
But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

oho... the usual Kaname-hate that blinds all logic...

Is that the same as how the usual kaname-love is blind to logic that questions him?
[/quote]

what logic are you talking about? about letting yuki use blood tablets for the rest of her life and refrain from drinking kaname's blood? total shock..

in addition, Yuki as a vampire it was essential for her to learn the basics for vampires which is to drink blood via fangs, blood tablets are only secondary measures to get blood, and lol why go for something as unsatisfying unpleasant as blood tablet when there's real blood? this confuses me.

[/quote]
But Kaname wasn't always around to be a dispenser for Yuuki, so she suffered while he was not around, Aidou thought it logical and harmless enough to offer her the tablets when she was desperate i.e. thinking that an temporary alternative was fine if she wasn't sated by Kaname. The scene was there to make you wonder why she didn't have any. [/quote]

the question is, is it a PRIORITY or is it RELEVANT to teach yuki to take blood tablets when she is in the process of learning how to use her fangs? and why would it be a priority over Kaname's goals? is her life in an immediate threat if she didn't take bloodtablets?
and how in the world did you assume that Aido knew what he was doing, that "it was logical or harmless enough"? you are making assumptions about other character's actions as right to support your belief

Which led to the theories that Kaname doesn't offer them to her because they're harmful or that Kaname needed her to use her fangs on him is just as logical.

no, I don't believe they're harmful to her, if it had some sort of effect he would advise her against taking them in the first place. I think if Kaname knew Yuki's life would be in danger if she was deprived of his blood or doesn't know how to use blood tablets he would tell her in the first place.

Knightmare wrote:

And yes, I agreed, Yuuki knew instinctively how to use her fangs, her emotional/psychological problems prevented her from using them. We see the resolution is her admission she wants Zero's blood coupled with Kaname's "punishment" that finally assuages her guilt and allows her to drink from Kaname again.

If you just check the scans above, that I put before, you will see that Yuuki's inability to use her fangs is attached to her "human" self...that's how Kaname defines the problem. So it is that human self that gives her the problem, not Zero. I think you are mixing two things Yuuki's human self / desire to drink from Zero, in one pack, but this is not the issue as stated above.
At the current moment when she is not using her fangs, obviously she first has to overcome her humanity that holds her behind, before satisfying herself with anything, even Aidou's blood. So Zero's blood as you state it or Kaname's or anyone's is not the resolution, apparently letting go of the beast she keeps inside and prey without guilts is the issue.

Starving a child with psychological issues about not eating will not get them over their issues of eating. Anything psychological means you need to deal with the problem directly, if you need to drip feed them to prevent injury then do so knowing it won't fix the problems. That means, Kaname feeding Yuuki his blood or blood tablets wouldn't make much difference. Coming back to the question of, why no blood tablets? Kaname was away a lot, leaving Yuuki in a distraught state alone when she could have used the blood tablets to assuage her hunger.

Yuuki is not a child anymore, in order not to be using her fangs, it is also stated. Such a basic thing such as feeding with her fangs, which in reality is a fundamental practice, can not be compared with other issues such as socialization for example. Food is primary, a basic instict, I think we can all agree on that fact. If that part of her nature is not satisfied, how can she progress and move further at other issues? She needs to solve her basic problem first. If you consider the same thing using her fangs, thus practicing her skills in biting - survival, ability to prey upon and sustain herself, with the ready-supplements tablets, then you are missing a point;
it has nothing to do with food itself, if it is tablets or blood, it has to do with the ability to use her fangs, survive, feed herself, acting as a vampire, accepting and preserving her nature.
Apparently ten bottle of tablets, can not solve that issue. You wanted Hino to drag the thing with the tablets in another 50 chapters and enlarge a problem that can actually be dealt at once? Well, Kaname tries to challenge Yuuki to release herself, he fails and she licks the blood. I do not understand why you want the tablets there, instead of Kaname's blood. Apparently Kaname wants to give to the new vampire Yuuki the best nutrition there is but you do not like it? I guess if you had a child you would give it supplements instead of pushing it to eat real food? that sounds more convenient.

If you subscribe to the theory that satisfaction in whatever form will delay facing the issue, then tablets would have been a better option to keep insanity at bay without being very satisfying as opposed to Kaname's blood which she would have gained a little satisfaction. By that logic, then perhaps had Kaname given her blood tablets for a year instead of his blood then maybe it wouldn't have taken her a year to face the problem?

No, apparently they may never had even spoted the problem, a problem being postponed is only enlarged and stops the progress of other actions. And what if tablets stopped one day to exist? I shall repeat here again that the satisfaction is not only in the food itself but apparently in being able to achieve things on your own without additional help. Let's not forget that they are beasts, their nature is that of carnivals, therefore that' s a basic instict that needs to be met.

sweet solace wrote:

knightmare wrote:
But really, I just assume the reason is that Kaname wanted her to bite him/drink his blood.

oho... the usual Kaname-hate that blinds all logic...

Is that the same as how the usual kaname-love is blind to logic that questions him?


It really depends on who is making the questions and with what intention. Example Kaname is going bersek killing purebloods/ Zero kills a vampire in this chapter without even questioning him first. So with what exactly qualification do you want us to judge only Kaname?-isn't the opposite side just the same, willingly letting go of actions, facts that are not covenient to be mentioned? I do not care personally, but since you want to state it, let's state it correct and overall.
During our debates, we are questioning kaname's plans and action, based at his background we are judging the present/trying to reach conclusions but I have not seen the opposite fandom just questioning the same...this is a whole discussion here, I can make you a list with things that Zero did and where faced with worship or humour from his fans. So for me, is just the same, I won't stick to that, it is manga let's enjoy, but to tell you the truth, the fact that Kaname is under the spotlight even from Zekis (primary from Zekis I have to say) it's a factor that promotes him more... as the saying says "when I am good, I am good, when I bad..I am better" LOL. (just humour)

But Kaname wasn't always around to be a dispenser for Yuuki, so she suffered while he was not around, Aidou thought it logical and harmless enough to offer her the tablets when she was desperate i.e. thinking that an temporary alternative was fine if she wasn't sated by Kaname. The scene was there to make you wonder why she didn't have any.

The tablets at the current phase were not harmful (even though they can be now). We only see a scene that Yuuki is suffering and no Kaname is not far away, it's just a matter of time to return. There are also some issues that Yuuki has to face alone and surpass, I think that I explained the basic theory above and that's it. If you still consider real blood/ability to feed yourself with the ready food ready for consuption, ok I do not insist.
But to tell you the truth I do not see a harmful result coming out of Kaname's methods, I see a Yuuki that has improved her biting and that allowed her to see the past, take knowldegde along with power. Now how bad is that to the psychology of a "child"...hm?

juliet wrote:
it has nothing to do with food itself, if it is tablets or blood, it has to do with the ability to use her fangs, survive, feed herself, acting as a vampire, accepting and preserving her nature.
Apparently ten bottle of tablets, can not solve that issue. You wanted Hino to drag the thing with the tablets in another 50 chapters and enlarge a problem that can actually be dealt at once? Well, Kaname tries to challenge Yuuki to release herself, he fails and she licks the blood. I do not understand why you want the tablets there, instead of Kaname's blood. Apparently Kaname wants to give to the new vampire Yuuki the best nutrition there is but you do not like it? I guess if you had a child you would give it supplements instead of pushing it to eat real food? that sounds more convenient.

No, apparently they may never had even spoted the problem, a
problem being postponed is only enlarged and stops the progress of other
actions. And what if tablets stopped one day to exist? I shall repeat
here again that the satisfaction is not only in the food itself but
apparently in being able to achieve things on your own without
additional help. Let's not forget that they are beasts, their nature is
that of carnivals, therefore that' s a basic instict that needs to be
met.

oh my god i love you

yes it sounds like knightmare is promoting infant milk formula aka blood tablets for Yuki as the starving child...

The tablets at the current phase were not harmful (even though they can be now).

yes i agree we dont know if it was tampered or not since Sara started messing with the formulas...

It really depends on who is making the questions and with what intention. Example Kaname is going bersek killing purebloods/ Zero kills a vampire in this chapter without even questioning him first. So with what exactly qualification do you want us to judge only Kaname?-isn't the opposite side just the same, willingly letting go of actions, facts that are not covenient to be mentioned? I do not care personally, but since you want to state it, let's state it correct and overall.
During our debates, we are questioning kaname's plans and action, based at his background we are judging the present/trying to reach conclusions but I have not seen the opposite fandom just questioning the same...this is a whole discussion here, I can make you a list with things that Zero did and where faced with worship or humour from his fans. So for me, is just the same, I won't stick to that, it is manga let's enjoy, but to tell you the truth, the fact that Kaname is under the spotlight even from Zekis (primary from Zekis I have to say) it's a factor that promotes him more... as the saying says "when I am good, I am good, when I bad..I am better" LOL. (just humour)

Haha, that's funny. It's the exact opposite to us. Maybe not here(?), but at least on MF for a good while and still there was the a pattern of how Kaname is so wonderful and noble, he does everything for a reason, you have to understand him etc. while Zero is an a-hole who misuses his powers and rights, have no feelings, is controlled by his hate, does nothing useful etc. you know, like with most things it goes both ways. XD But I'll give credit to the yumes here, I've seen very little Zero bashing, though this place seems alot nicer than MF overall.

knightmare wrote: And yes, I agreed, Yuuki knew instinctively how to use her fangs, her emotional/psychological problems prevented her from using them. We see the resolution is her admission she wants Zero's blood coupled with Kaname's "punishment" that finally assuages her guilt and allows her to drink from Kaname again.

Yuuki never stated that she wants Zero’s blood … she said that she can’t be fully quenched cuz a part/chunk of her heart was still attached to Zero …

Now I know that this statement it has been received as equal to “I want his blood” from Zekis … IMO there is a difference but lets not analyze it further cuz I know it is an endless argument. I just want to state the exact words cuz the “translation” >> “I want Zero’s blood” is one way to interpret her wording but not the only one.

Furthermore Kaname’s acceptance of her attachment to Zero, as you said helped her to assuage her guilt << this is one of the biggest proofs of how much he loves her unconditionally and how he sets aside his “possessiveness” or his “manly” pride. And that, it brings me to the main subject of the previous disagreement about Kaname’s reluctance to use Yuuki the tablets:

I dismiss totally the innuendo (IF there is one lol) that Kaname’s wish for Yuuki, to be feed only with his blood and not through tablets, is related with egoistic reasons or possessiveness … Kaname has prove many times, that puts Yuuki’s well-being above his erotic feelings or personal needs, such as when “allowed” Zero to bite her over and over again! And this is just one example. So he can’t be “accused” that his motives which concerning Yuuki at least, are self-centred ones. This is at least unfair.

I think we all agree that Yuuki’s problem to use her fangs was psychological and not practical. She isn’t a child anymore, meaning that her fangs are grew enough to be used, but her attitude was childish in an extent, and this is something she admits and partly ashamed for it. She was like a toddler as a vampire … in mind, in psychology, in powers, in knowledge hence and she was treated like one but that doesn’t mean that it should stay in that way for ever. Furthermore as we saw later it was substantial to use them in order to be ready to delve into Kaname’s past through his blood for many reasons.

The refusal to use her fangs can be translated as refusal of her true nature, so what exactly the consumption of tablets could resolve? To tame her thirst? Maybe … but how this could drive her, to use her fangs? I can’t see it … ??? More likely would help her to put the problem under the carpet …

Kaname wanted to trigger her thirst hence and her basic instinct to take over … that was the meaning of the scene we saw, when he pierced his wrist while he offered his neck to Yuuki.

Frankly I can’t understand the core/purpose of this argument … ???

nina wrote:

knightmare wrote: And yes, I agreed, Yuuki knew instinctively how to use her fangs, her emotional/psychological problems prevented her from using them. We see the resolution is her admission she wants Zero's blood coupled with Kaname's "punishment" that finally assuages her guilt and allows her to drink from Kaname again.

Yuuki never stated that she wants Zero’s blood … she said that she can’t be fully quenched cuz a part/chunk of her heart was still attached to Zero …

Well, I must say, Yuki dislike me and Zero, I think he may be happy with another girl or single. Yume isn´t my model of love, but I have no problem with this couple.

But I just think that some anti-Zeki arguments are "blind".

Yuki said she will never be satisfied, that her thirst will never be quenched, or her thirst can´t be quenched because some part of her is connected to Zero.
Thirst. Well, when someone is thirsty, when someone is not satisfied...this person is wishing something. Perhaps a thirst for water, cola-cola, but in Y´s case, in this chapter, she´s referring to blood. It´s obvious that she wants Zero´s blood as well. The problem here is not she want his blood. The question is "why she wants it" = a deep love or devotion, etc..

In my sadistic opinion, this chapter is designed only to increase the conflict between Yume. Because when Yuki and Kaname left together, there was a sense of end of the story. So, Hino used this issue to keep the LT alive. After all, VK is supported around the love triangle. Hino doesn´t have the courage to end it yet.
That is, Hino has created arguments that show that Yuki wants Zero´s blood (also, as she wants Kaname's blood), but that Hino will explain it in this way: Yuki loves Z deeply, as a friend. I know. I'm psychic.

Vanille-chan wrote:

nina wrote:

knightmare wrote: And yes, I agreed, Yuuki knew instinctively how to use her fangs, her emotional/psychological problems prevented her from using them. We see the resolution is her admission she wants Zero's blood coupled with Kaname's "punishment" that finally assuages her guilt and allows her to drink from Kaname again.

Yuuki never stated that she wants Zero’s blood … she said that she can’t be fully quenched cuz a part/chunk of her heart was still attached to Zero …

Well, I must say, Yuki dislike me and Zero, I think he may be happy with another girl or single. Yume isn´t my model of love, but I have no problem with this couple.

But I just think that some anti-Zeki arguments are "blind".

Yuki said she will never be satisfied, that her thirst will never be quenched, or her thirst can´t be quenched because some part of her is connected to Zero.
Thirst. Well, when someone is thirsty, when someone is not satisfied...this person is wishing something. Perhaps a thirst for water, cola-cola, but in Y´s case, in this chapter, she´s referring to blood. It´s obvious that she wants Zero´s blood as well. The problem here is not she want his blood. The question is "why she wants it" = a deep love or devotion, etc..

In my sadistic opinion, this chapter is designed only to increase the conflict between Yume. Because when Yuki and Kaname left together, there was a sense of end of the story. So, Hino used this issue to keep the LT alive. After all, VK is supported around the love triangle. Hino doesn´t have the courage to end it yet.
That is, Hino has created arguments that show that Yuki wants Zero´s blood (also, as she wants Kaname's blood), but that Hino will explain it in this way: Yuki loves Z deeply, as a friend. I know. I'm psychic.

These are only your interpretations … I didn’t have any intention to start that old argument again and that’s why I clearly stated that …

Now I know that this statement it has been received as equal to “I want his blood” from Zekis … IMO there is a difference but lets not analyze it further cuz I know it is an endless argument. I just want to state the exact words cuz the “translation” >> “I want Zero’s blood” is one way to interpret her wording but not the only one.

Without any further analysis ... I stated the obvious that Yuuki never used these words ...
Or do you have any page in mind where Yuuki stated that she wants Zero’s blood in the exact words??

And of course I’ll stick on my previous post … there is another way to interpret Yuuki’s words and certainly I could say exactly the same thing for your interpretation … that it’s “blind” and biased … No?

These are only your interpretations …
Without any further analysis ... I stated the obvious that Yuuki never used these words ...

The only "interpretion" you can make out of Yuuki's words in 51 (and her action in 60 mind you) is if she wants his blood simply because he's dear to her in a friendly/family way or if it's because she loves him. She said Kaname's blood wasn't enough ("my thirst can't be quenched entirely") which would mean someone else's blood is needed for her to be fully satiated. Take a wild guess to whom. She nearly bit Zero in her daze while smiling (which she wouldn't do if it was purerly wound-driven like some claim) and now in 72 clutches her throat after the "neck taunt" he does. Unless Hino hates the part of her fanbase that supports zeki, I'm curios as to why she'd drop these comments and hints if it's not supposed to mean anything O.O Really? But since you brought it up, why don't you fill me in on what your "interpretion" is? Her thirst will be fully satiated by doing what?

Howl4fun wrote:

These are only your interpretations …
Without any further analysis ... I stated the obvious that Yuuki never used these words ...

The only "interpretion" you can make out of Yuuki's words in 51 (and her action in 60 mind you) is if she wants his blood simply because he's dear to her in a friendly/family way or if it's because she loves him. She said Kaname's blood wasn't enough ("my thirst can't be quenched entirely") which would mean someone else's blood is needed for her to be fully satiated. Take a wild guess to whom. She nearly bit Zero in her daze while smiling (which she wouldn't do if it was purerly wound-driven like some claim) and now in 72 clutches her throat after the "neck taunt" he does. Unless Hino hates the part of her fanbase that supports zeki, I'm curios as to why she'd drop these comments and hints if it's not supposed to mean anything O.O Really? But since you brought it up, why don't you fill me in on what your "interpretion" is? Her thirst will be fully satiated by doing what?

No I won’t fill you in cuz I didn’t brought up the subject … read better the thread to see who’s brought it up in the first place.
I think it’s your habit to misread especially my posts … you are free to spread your Zekiness … I have no interest to participate, and I clearly stated it from the first time! *SIGH*

No I won’t fill you in cuz I didn’t brought up the subject … read better the thread to see who’s brought it up in the first place.
I think it’s your habit to misread especially my posts … you are free to spread your Zekiness … I have no interest to participate, and I clearly stated it from the first time! *SIGH*

You brought up that it was only interpretions, did you not? But it's fine, we won't discuss it.

Howl4fun wrote:

It really depends on who is making the questions and with what intention. Example Kaname is going bersek killing purebloods/ Zero kills a vampire in this chapter without even questioning him first. So with what exactly qualification do you want us to judge only Kaname?-isn't the opposite side just the same, willingly letting go of actions, facts that are not covenient to be mentioned? I do not care personally, but since you want to state it, let's state it correct and overall.
During our debates, we are questioning kaname's plans and action, based at his background we are judging the present/trying to reach conclusions but I have not seen the opposite fandom just questioning the same...this is a whole discussion here, I can make you a list with things that Zero did and where faced with worship or humour from his fans. So for me, is just the same, I won't stick to that, it is manga let's enjoy, but to tell you the truth, the fact that Kaname is under the spotlight even from Zekis (primary from Zekis I have to say) it's a factor that promotes him more... as the saying says "when I am good, I am good, when I bad..I am better" LOL. (just humour)

Haha, that's funny. It's the exact opposite to us. Maybe not here(?), but at least on MF for a good while and still there was the a pattern of how Kaname is so wonderful and noble, he does everything for a reason, you have to understand him etc. while Zero is an a-hole who misuses his powers and rights, have no feelings, is controlled by his hate, does nothing useful etc. you know, like with most things it goes both ways. XD But I'll give credit to the yumes here, I've seen very little Zero bashing, though this place seems alot nicer than MF overall.

maybe because it is the zeki famdom originally that initiates the flames of war trying to find excuses in order to bash Kaname and treat all of his actions wrong? so what you get is a defense thus Zero ends up as you said while Kaname is a pedo/abuser/pussesive/manipulativing being and little do I say? Perhaps, it can be an interpretation of the phenomenon, whereas here as you see there is no bashing Kaname thus the ball does not get Zero as well...
But generally speaking yes Kaname's action have been misunderstood a lot, and have been used against him, focusing and limiting the plot on a war about the LT. VK is not the LT and neither Zero nor Kaname are the villains of the story (in the current time). The great background issue of VK as we are seeing it currently unfolding to the latest chapters is co-existence, an issue that as we saw torments humans and vampires, since the first existence of vampires on earth. We also learned that some vampires went against their own camp in order to shield the humans and protect them and still the plot unfolds to be so.
That's why focusing on the tree, we lose the forest, the funny part is that we are wishing for a co-existence among them when Yume and Zekis can not co-existence without puting up a fight, but then again what would be the fun in discussions? LOL..mission impossible...

juliet wrote:

Howl4fun wrote:

It really depends on who is making the questions and with what intention. Example Kaname is going bersek killing purebloods/ Zero kills a vampire in this chapter without even questioning him first. So with what exactly qualification do you want us to judge only Kaname?-isn't the opposite side just the same, willingly letting go of actions, facts that are not covenient to be mentioned? I do not care personally, but since you want to state it, let's state it correct and overall.
During our debates, we are questioning kaname's plans and action, based at his background we are judging the present/trying to reach conclusions but I have not seen the opposite fandom just questioning the same...this is a whole discussion here, I can make you a list with things that Zero did and where faced with worship or humour from his fans. So for me, is just the same, I won't stick to that, it is manga let's enjoy, but to tell you the truth, the fact that Kaname is under the spotlight even from Zekis (primary from Zekis I have to say) it's a factor that promotes him more... as the saying says "when I am good, I am good, when I bad..I am better" LOL. (just humour)

Haha, that's funny. It's the exact opposite to us. Maybe not here(?), but at least on MF for a good while and still there was the a pattern of how Kaname is so wonderful and noble, he does everything for a reason, you have to understand him etc. while Zero is an a-hole who misuses his powers and rights, have no feelings, is controlled by his hate, does nothing useful etc. you know, like with most things it goes both ways. XD But I'll give credit to the yumes here, I've seen very little Zero bashing, though this place seems alot nicer than MF overall.

maybe because it is the zeki famdom originally that initiates the flames of war trying to find excuses in order to bash Kaname and treat all of his actions wrong? so what you get is a defense thus Zero ends up as you said while Kaname is a pedo/abuser/pussesive/manipulativing being and little do I say? Perhaps, it can be an interpretation of the phenomenon, whereas here as you see there is no bashing Kaname thus the ball does not get Zero as well...
But generally speaking yes Kaname's action have been misunderstood a lot, and have been used against him, focusing and limiting the plot on a war about the LT. VK is not the LT and neither Zero nor Kaname are the villains of the story (in the current time). The great background issue of VK as we are seeing it currently unfolding to the latest chapters is co-existence, an issue that as we saw torments humans and vampires, since the first existence of vampires on earth. We also learned that some vampires went against their own camp in order to shield the humans and protect them and still the plot unfolds to be so.
That's why focusing on the tree, we lose the forest, the funny part is that we are wishing for a co-existence among them when Yume and Zekis can not co-existence without puting up a fight, but then again what would be the fun in discussions? LOL..mission impossible...

agree! LOL and I observed the one who most often complains of "getting bashed" are also the ones who bashes a character first its funny to see this complaint pop out so often on zeki's side as though they're the one being aggravated, yume fans usually have their say at the second round but it is most of often zekis who start this topic in any forum, for example, Now. well I may be biased but this is how I see it objectively...

I agree with juliet, Kaname is treated like a fascinating bacteria on study under a microscope but somehow is always viewed as a germ . every little interaction he has with Yuki is criticized, give him a break... there's actually another way of viewing it yet seldom I see this demonstrated which is a pity, you know..
its like hunters and vampires who hunt each other.

VK's plot is fascinating yet most of the fans see only the LT and disturb Kaname with useless issues with Yuki
(Kaname probably rolling his eyes everytime he reads this )
Kaname: I don't have time for this idiocy.. LT? what about MY future? Or even VK's future? I still have to kill purebloods and right out the wrongs these idiots caused, do you know? *glares* If no one kills them who will? the hunters? they're already complaining to me about such simple thing as killing Level E's I've got my hands full and this is the thanks I get... I wouldn't even mind dying you know, with all these stupidity im better off dead...

poor kaname.. *hugs*

Forget what I said, I won't be discussing such a juvenile argument over "Who's better" or "They started it" O.o. This isn't kindergarten. Edit: I'm sorry for getting too defensive however. I've seem to've got that bad habit as of lately. I'll take back any offending word in my previous post.

However, on the subject of character/pairing bashing, it seems it depends alot on the timing in the story over which of them is being bashed/ridiculed the most. Yes, a few years back I recall alot of Kaname bashing around the time we saw his first interactions with Yuuki in the mansion. This recent year again however, it's mainly been on Zero and his attitude around Yuuki and in general. As for the pairings, zeki had a hard time after Yuuki's awakening and their confessions/separation (Zero pointing the gun at her and all) and now recently with yume after their canon-ship and how they interacted (with the endless bickering over whether their love was romantic or repulsive between the fandoms), I remember crazy Zero bashing that erupted when he took Aidou to the HA for interrogation some chapters back (O.o) and again some Kaname bashing when he killed Aidou-dono and then took off without explanation. Zeki ridiculing then began the minute they met, with mocking questions as to where their love was and how Zero was being mean as usual, not to mention when Aidou made the comment on how he wouldn't become like Zero. etc etc. the list goes on. Both fandoms are being ridiculing/bashing of the other, unprovoked, from time to time, that's the nature of shipping wars. It's not much to do about it but to turn a deaf ear most of the time (or blind eye in this case)