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Which one do you like most for Yuuki?
Which one do you like most for Yuuki?
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Zero or Kaname?
Administration Team- Admin
- Posts : 129
Join date : 2010-05-05
Katherine- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 840
Join date : 2011-07-19
Bloodredhead wrote:aya-chan wrote:
Seriously anyone who does law or has watched CSI, NCIS, Law and order etc, knows you have to have hard evidence and full evidence to make a verdict or judge
A little correction for the bolded part: is Order and Law. - at the begging of the movie, the police investigate the crime *Order* and later the prosecutor try to convict the guilty one *Law*.
I do watch NCIS, Order and Law, CSI or The Practice *this movie is only about lawyers*.
Actually there's a program here in the UK called Law and Order. Sorry probably shouldn't have used it as it isn't well known. Lol!
I know this TV-series too
We can see it here in France too ;) So it seems like it is quite popular ;)
aya-chan- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 1154
Join date : 2011-03-03
Location : here
Humor : oiseaux de se ressemble s'assemble
Bloodredhead wrote:aya-chan wrote:
Seriously anyone who does law or has watched CSI, NCIS, Law and order etc, knows you have to have hard evidence and full evidence to make a verdict or judge
A little correction for the bolded part: is Order and Law. - at the begging of the movie, the police investigate the crime *Order* and later the prosecutor try to convict the guilty one *Law*.
I do watch NCIS, Order and Law, CSI or The Practice *this movie is only about lawyers*.
Actually there's a program here in the UK called Law and Order. Sorry probably shouldn't have used it as it isn't well known. Lol!
Actually I should apologize: Law and Order is correct.
I based my judgement on the fact that the order is first in the movie, and law after - which it is.
- Spoiler:
- But my fic title would remain Order and Law
Bloodredhead- Pureblood Vampire
- Posts : 465
Join date : 2011-06-05
Location : UK
aya-chan wrote:Bloodredhead wrote:aya-chan wrote:
A little correction for the bolded part: is Order and Law. - at the begging of the movie, the police investigate the crime *Order* and later the prosecutor try to convict the guilty one *Law*.
I do watch NCIS, Order and Law, CSI or The Practice *this movie is only about lawyers*.
Actually there's a program here in the UK called Law and Order. Sorry probably shouldn't have used it as it isn't well known. Lol!
Actually I should apologize: Law and Order is correct.
I based my judgement on the fact that the order is first in the movie, and law after - which it is.
- Spoiler:
No need to apologize aya-chan!
@katherine: ooo you get it in france too?! yay!!!!
Divine Rose- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 621
Join date : 2011-09-09
Location : Middle of Nowhere
Humor : Mwa hahahahahahaha...
Katherine wrote:Am I the forth one to like it? Nina my thanks for this amazing post! Thank you for protecting the dignity of us fans...Of course we have morals and ethnics...I thinkt the persons you addressed just ignored the intentions of Kaname they just condemned him and Kaname´s fans...That is absolutely cruel and false! There are many aspects which have to be taken in consideration!
Thank you too for making clear that the persons who are posting these things are teaming up...I feel offended by that and insulted...On top of that this is making me asolutely sad because I believe in a forum where bashing and offending has no place! And I think that a lot of other ones like nina think the same way....
I gave you a positive vote because your post is one of the best and most touching ones that I read in the last time! Thank you so much!!!
I agree with you fully. And I am so glad Nina said what she did in her post especially regarding that. In a forum people should only discuss in a respectful way and pertain only to what they are discussing. Never start bashing, trolling, and spamming, and especially NEVER start saying things about the morals and ethics of the people discussing.
Thank you very much Nina.
SassyKnight- Vampire Noble Class
- Posts : 338
Join date : 2011-10-17
Location : My Heart
Yuki said to Zero in volume 10 "I'll keep running away from you if having an enemy gives you a reason to live..." She NEVER wanted to be Zero's enemy. THAT IS A FACT
"Zero...Are you really alright? I don't want to be your enemy...Was this the only way?" This just proves that she doesn't want to be his enemy...
Also here: Resolutions quietly pile up concealing my crying heart... Kaname is her resolution concealing her heart for Zero IMO
Zero would NEVER be able to kill Yuki even though he says he will. "Even if i want to end all this...I'm still attached to the past..." Zero wouldn't be able to because the past.
Zero devoured Ichiru because Ichiru basically begged him to. Zero never wanted to kill his own brother...Ichiru told him to so he could become the strongest hunter.
"Zero devour what remains of my life...If you devour me you can regain the powers you were meant to have at birth. Then you'll be able to control yourself...Live Zero...And do what I cannot!" From Volume 9 Book. Ichiru WANTED Zero to live!
And about Kaname, he most likely knew the Night Class would be his allies, so he got advantage of that and used them in a way for Yuki's protection IMO He used Zero for Yuki's shield and he used the bond between them so Zero would protect her.
Kaname did use both Yuki and Zero IMO "I made full use of the connection between you and Kiryu to eradicate Rido..." From Official Volume 11 Book
Kaname also wanted to FORCE Yuki to leave the Academy with him! He was prepared to...But Zero just let her go....
"I know these arms so well...Yet they seem like the arms of a stranger..."
"Yuki...I can force you to come with me..." "If you do that...I will never forgive you. Never."
"Kaname Sama is a kind, good vampire..." -Yuki
"I'm sorry Yuki...I'm not a good vampire..."
Kaname might be evil XD Who knows?
Kaname also knew Takuma was held captive by Sara: "Takuma...It seems Kaname knew you were here this entire time..." - Sara Volume 11 book
So Kaname knew Takuma was there...And he didn't think of saving Takuma from Sara...So he must need him for something...
"Zero...Are you really alright? I don't want to be your enemy...Was this the only way?" This just proves that she doesn't want to be his enemy...
Also here: Resolutions quietly pile up concealing my crying heart... Kaname is her resolution concealing her heart for Zero IMO
Zero would NEVER be able to kill Yuki even though he says he will. "Even if i want to end all this...I'm still attached to the past..." Zero wouldn't be able to because the past.
Zero devoured Ichiru because Ichiru basically begged him to. Zero never wanted to kill his own brother...Ichiru told him to so he could become the strongest hunter.
"Zero devour what remains of my life...If you devour me you can regain the powers you were meant to have at birth. Then you'll be able to control yourself...Live Zero...And do what I cannot!" From Volume 9 Book. Ichiru WANTED Zero to live!
And about Kaname, he most likely knew the Night Class would be his allies, so he got advantage of that and used them in a way for Yuki's protection IMO He used Zero for Yuki's shield and he used the bond between them so Zero would protect her.
Kaname did use both Yuki and Zero IMO "I made full use of the connection between you and Kiryu to eradicate Rido..." From Official Volume 11 Book
Kaname also wanted to FORCE Yuki to leave the Academy with him! He was prepared to...But Zero just let her go....
"I know these arms so well...Yet they seem like the arms of a stranger..."
"Yuki...I can force you to come with me..." "If you do that...I will never forgive you. Never."
"Kaname Sama is a kind, good vampire..." -Yuki
"I'm sorry Yuki...I'm not a good vampire..."
Kaname might be evil XD Who knows?
Kaname also knew Takuma was held captive by Sara: "Takuma...It seems Kaname knew you were here this entire time..." - Sara Volume 11 book
So Kaname knew Takuma was there...And he didn't think of saving Takuma from Sara...So he must need him for something...
iiXerxes- Level-E
- Posts : 52
Join date : 2012-01-20
Location : In the bushes stalking pairings
SassyKnight wrote:Yuki said to Zero in volume 10 "I'll keep running away from you if having an enemy gives you a reason to live..." She NEVER wanted to be Zero's enemy. THAT IS A FACT
"Zero...Are you really alright? I don't want to be your enemy...Was this the only way?" This just proves that she doesn't want to be his enemy...
Also here: Resolutions quietly pile up concealing my crying heart... Kaname is her resolution concealing her heart for Zero IMO
Zero would NEVER be able to kill Yuki even though he says he will. "Even if i want to end all this...I'm still attached to the past..." Zero wouldn't be able to because the past.
Zero devoured Ichiru because Ichiru basically begged him to. Zero never wanted to kill his own brother...Ichiru told him to so he could become the strongest hunter.
"Zero devour what remains of my life...If you devour me you can regain the powers you were meant to have at birth. Then you'll be able to control yourself...Live Zero...And do what I cannot!" From Volume 9 Book. Ichiru WANTED Zero to live!
And about Kaname, he most likely knew the Night Class would be his allies, so he got advantage of that and used them in a way for Yuki's protection IMO He used Zero for Yuki's shield and he used the bond between them so Zero would protect her.
Kaname did use both Yuki and Zero IMO "I made full use of the connection between you and Kiryu to eradicate Rido..." From Official Volume 11 Book
Kaname also wanted to FORCE Yuki to leave the Academy with him! He was prepared to...But Zero just let her go....
"I know these arms so well...Yet they seem like the arms of a stranger..."
"Yuki...I can force you to come with me..." "If you do that...I will never forgive you. Never."
"Kaname Sama is a kind, good vampire..." -Yuki
"I'm sorry Yuki...I'm not a good vampire..."
Kaname might be evil XD Who knows?
Kaname also knew Takuma was held captive by Sara: "Takuma...It seems Kaname knew you were here this entire time..." - Sara Volume 11 book
So Kaname knew Takuma was there...And he didn't think of saving Takuma from Sara...So he must need him for something...
Look who speaks words of wisdom again~ : D
Bloodredhead- Pureblood Vampire
- Posts : 465
Join date : 2011-06-05
Location : UK
SassyKnight wrote:Yuki said to Zero in volume 10 "I'll keep running away from you if having an enemy gives you a reason to live..." She NEVER wanted to be Zero's enemy. THAT IS A FACT
"Zero...Are you really alright? I don't want to be your enemy...Was this the only way?" This just proves that she doesn't want to be his enemy...
Correct, i don't think anyone has disbuted this.
Zero would NEVER be able to kill Yuki even though he says he will. "Even if i want to end all this...I'm still attached to the past..." Zero wouldn't be able to because the past.
Zero devoured Ichiru because Ichiru basically begged him to. Zero never wanted to kill his own brother...Ichiru told him to so he could become the strongest hunter.
"Zero devour what remains of my life...If you devour me you can regain the powers you were meant to have at birth. Then you'll be able to control yourself...Live Zero...And do what I cannot!" From Volume 9 Book. Ichiru WANTED Zero to live!
I think you haven't realised what Nina was saying, now Nina please do state if i am wrong, but i believe she wasn't disputing any of these, she was just showing another side to it all, showing how people have been quite double standard in how they have viewed the morals in the manga. As some are condeming kaname, but then condone others actions in VK, and also then us Yumes were then well to put it bluntly were had a go at and our morals questioned for defending kaname.
And about Kaname, he most likely knew the Night Class would be his allies, so he got advantage of that and used them in a way for Yuki's protection
Actually the night class CHOSE to help defend the day class and yuuki. And also CHOSE to follow kaname, it was a choice.
If you remember Ruka stated to Touga when the fighting was happening in the first arc that she felt her family would understand her reasons for protecting humans and also stating that it would be wrong not to protect them. Seems she had her own reasons for protecting the day class from Rido's followers.
Kaname also wanted to FORCE Yuki to leave the Academy with him! He was prepared to...But Zero just let her go...."I know these arms so well...Yet they seem like the arms of a stranger..."
"Yuki...I can force you to come with me..." "If you do that...I will never forgive you. Never."
I see you missed the next part of this scene. The part where kaname let go of Yuuki and let her do as she wished. He wanted to keep her safe and away from the fighting but she voiced her objection and he then let go. Thats key in that scene.
May i ask where kaname forced Yuuki to leave with him? Chapter and page link please so i can see.
"Kaname Sama is a kind, good vampire..." -Yuki
"I'm sorry Yuki...I'm not a good vampire..."
Kaname might be evil XD Who knows?
Erm...how does saying he's not good imply he's Evil? Thats taking it a bit of a leap isnt it?
If a person was evil would they do the following?
1) When chucked out of a village by humans, say's nothing in their defence and leaves without raising a finger.
2) Helps create and has the idea on creating a furnace, to create anti-vampire weapons for humans to defend themselves.
3) Planned to put his own blood in said furnace and effectivly end his life.
4) Is a major contributor of co-existence.
5) Brings nobles together to create the blood tablets as an alternative from blood. Hence trying to reduce the amount of humans bitten for blood.
6) Protects the one he loves.
We can look at the things he has done wrong but i think your forgetting all the good he has done too. Kaname isnt perfect, no-one in this manga is. They have all done wrong morally, etc. So question those others who have done wrong by the standards set by you and others before does this make zero evil? Does this make takuma evil? Does this make the hunters evil? (the list could go on). As if you say no to these and yes to kaname thats completly double standards. You have to judge on the same level otherwise thats bias.
Just something you should probably note we're not saying kanames actions are right what we are saying is that we can understand and also as half the facts arent infront of us we wont make a firm judgement.
Edit: Just remembered something i wanted to put in.
Zero ate his brother - Fact
Kaname killed purebloods - Fact
Both facts both morally wrong (unless your going to tell me eating your brother is acceptable?)
Now with zero we have his reason, the why to his actions etc and an understanding of it.
With kaname we havent had his reason yet or the why to his actions.
So how can people make a judgement on kaname when we miss these important things that usually is what people make their major judgement on the character on? Thats just to me people jumping the gun and condeming kaname at the first opportunity. Both guys actions morally wrong....reasoning and understanding though changes our views on this. Hence why we understand zero's reasoning and the scene etc. So we should wiat for kanames reason to give him the same curtesy and then make our decision.
Last edited by Bloodredhead on Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:55 am; edited 1 time in total
Shoujo-Zo18- Vampire Noble Class
- Posts : 347
Join date : 2011-06-05
In reply to aya-chans remarks towards Xerxes, since you practically wrote a novel i'm just going to reply after each point you made in bold to make it easier. ^^
Well, let's count:
1. Zero to human yuuki *immediately after his trauma* - he slap yuuki's hands because she touched kaname. Zero even hurted yuuki physicaly - blood dripped from her fingers - Which trauma are you talking about...? I remember him slapping her hand away from touching kaname when he was little, at that time it didn't make her hand bleed.... I can't recall at the moment whether that happened, but are you lumping two incidents into one? And yes, Zero hated Kaname obviously because he hates purebloods, I would feel the same way as him... Of course he wouldn't want to be touched with the hand that cared for a pureblood whom he hated. But yes, it's also true that afterwards, Zero came to understand Yuuki'd relationship with Kaname, though in his heart he never fully agreed with it. Like in the first book where he would always snatch her away from kaname angrily... but he eventually got over that because he understood he couldn't stop her and he should respect her love for him.
2. Zero point his gun at yuuki, and said to her that in front of him stay a pureblood who triffles with human lives in their hand. In that moment zero hurt her emotionaly - Well yes, because he's unaware of even how she became a human, was he ever informed fully of her situation? Probably not, because well, it's kinda not his business with it having been a family issue at the start... But i still think he does deserve to know a little bit about it since she was his best friend. Having said that, he may have assummed that she was a vampire playing games with him pretending to be human... how is he supposed to know they have the power to turn their kids into human? But even so, at that time he also said what was on his mind "Did you think you could just come here and everything would be allright?" of course he knew it wouldn't be.... and he didn't want it to be because he just couldn't handle the shock of it, and knowing that she shared such a close blood bond with Kaname, he probably knew that even if he did try to fix things, it wouldn't work out because in the end she would choose kaname.... Zero probably thought this way, and was cruel to her to protect her from the pain of trying to continue an impossible relationship....atleast that's how he may or may not have seen it.
3. zero attacked yuuki and viciously bit her - the first time when he drank her blood - I distinctly remember him telling that idiot Yuuki SEVERAL times to stay away from him. he didn't want to bite her, he wanted to protect her. But she selfishly made it all about herself... Yuuki - " Oh, I see... I thought we were the same... I guess I was wrong...." She could have just tried to understand that he didn't want to be around her at that time and talked to him later or something...but that girl doesn't know how to listen.He tried to stop her because that nasty comment guilt-tripped him, and he may have talked to her, trying to explain...When the scent of her blood hit Zero, his vampire urges took over ( That which he had supressed for FOUR whole years, so of course it would be very powerful and hard to resist when hit so hard with it all of a sudden instead of gradually) he was driven to drink Yuuki's blood... it was an uncontrollable urge...and even afterwards he felt HORRIBLE and had a pained expression!! You say "attacked" like he viciously gashed at her throat with evil intent to kill....obviously that's not the case.
4. Zero throws yuuki away from the roof. - To get her out of the way, because he hates that pureblood, Rido, more than she does... He is a vile creature, plus he's the one responsible for killing his brother. He didn't want Yuuki involved in his fight, and plus it protected her anyways.
5. Zero point his gun at her, again. He said to her that he would kill her the next time when he would met her - save god she did nothing which have caused her death, because according to zero's words to kaien he would kill yuuki if he would have a reason to -, and that they are enemies. - Well? Did he kill her the next time he saw her? He surely must have since you seem to take his words so seriously. Tell me which chapter that happend...there seems to be a zombie Yuuki running amuck at cross academy. I find this funny that you take everything zero says so seriously...and yet so many yumes keep calling kaname a liar. Yes, they say he's lying about every word that comes out of his mouth about yuuki, to protect her and push her away. I say it's a possibility, but for now i have no reason to believe that, so i find that theory ridiculous. I seem to recall the first time Zero saw her, a year after that incident.... where was his gun? i saw his eyes looking at her and saying " Don't touch me" Obviously, I would also get very uncomfortable with the person who rejected me to be touching me at all. And then during that same chapter he told her " You stay out of this, this isn't some kind of game." That sounds m ore like either she's in the way, or he's trying to protect her.... but he didn't have the intent to kill written on his face. What happened the next time they met up? Well, he carried her when she passed out from blood loss at the cemetary. That's not what someone who wants to kill someone would do.... and when yuuki tried to drin his blood because she smelled a familiar scent, Zero did not try to stop her, but he held her tightly and close with his arm. and when she stopped he asked " You changed your mind? You've lost a lot of blood." That sounds like concern to me. she apologized but he said "no.." like it's okay. If he didn't like it he would have said something like "What were you trying to do just now..? you know we're in the hunter's association." or he could have said again to not touch him.... if he didn't like it. And yes, he did say to Kaien that he would kill her if there was a reason to. Obviously Yuuki won't do anything bad....but if for example she were to start killing humans, or something like that, or went crazy? Yes, I imagine Zero would want to be the one to take care of it... he wouldn't be able to bear the thought of anyone rough handling his precious yuuki.
6. zero carries a wounded vampire, aka yuuki, potato sac style. - Yup, he sure did. Or you know, he could have left her there, walking away coldly..."It's your problem... it has nothing to do with me." or dragged her through the dirt.... or shot her right there since you think he wants to kill her. Is this supposed to be a bad thing...? He can hold her closer this way, plus honestly, that's how children are held. I find it quite uncomfortable to be carrying around a kid bridal style. It certainly would be easier to carry an unconcious person over your shoulder, and more efficient. And actually there's no such thing as "potato sac style" whatever that is... it's actually called "Firefighter Carry" and here is the definition for it : This technique is for carrying a victim longer distances.
It is very difficult to get the person up to this position
from the ground. Getting the victim into position
requires a very strong rescuer or an assistant.
just incase you think i made this up, here is the link i got it from http://www.cert-la.com/liftcarry/Liftcarry.pdf And oh look, they agree with me that the "bridal style" is used for children. But it's also used for lighter people... maybe Zero thinks yuuki is not light? lol
7. zero flungs yuuki violently into a tree - before he giving her his blood - Did you see yuuki wince in pain? She would have shown if it hurt, so obviously he wasn't being as forceful as you think... she just stared at him with no reaction http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/38 And he could tell that she needed blood since she hadn't in awhile.... well obviously, because Kaname left, and he also said before that he doesn't want her eating blood tablets. So... basically he wants her to starve. Zero cares about her and offered his blood. Even Yuuki did the same thing to him in the beginning, he would say he didn't want it and push her away...but she still made her do it. So I say that gives him rights to do it atleast once....
8. zero points his gun at her again - ohh haha are you talking about how when yuuki said zero was protecting him? That was cute. I enjoyed that scene. Because Yuuki was spot on and it annoyed him xD That's why he pointed his gun lol. Not like he would actually kill her over such a silly thing, but it embarrassed him lol Then Sara came along and he put his gun down... which people assume means she stopped him from shooting yuuki xD Obviously, if he was really in an intent-to-kill mood, then he would have shot her right away, or pointed his gun and take his anger out on sara for interrupting. but instead he just left afterwards.
9. in the last chapter zero grab yuuki's arms with a strenght enough to cause her pain - Yuuki's a wimp... she's not used to pain because she's been pampered by so many people. Zero didn't want her to go to Kaname...for once, he held her back from him. So what if it caused yuuki a little bit of pain? It should make her realize he really didn't want her to go to him. Are you saying she's not allowed to experience any pain at all? Poor princess yuuki... she got her arm gripped by someone who cares about her. And was also stopped her from going to Kaname's fake stand in because he was too afraid to show up in person...oh wait, sara was more important, the real one was already there with her unless that's a fake too.
Kaname tries to accomplish his original plan. Important is what he try to accomplish with it. Kaname tries to create a better world for yuuki, and for humans too. - Actually his original plan was to kill all the purebloods... yuuki came after.
I think kaname failed here. Ichiru killed no pureblood - heck, he was in love with the one who killed his parents -, and the only pureblood zero killed is rido (with yuuki's help ofc). - Kaname didn't even say that Ichiru killed a pureblood...? He said that he WANTED both the twins to become powerful hunters that would kill all the purebloods.( for him, since his plan is to get rid of all the purebloods)
After the battle with rido, Zero said that his goal is to kill all purebloods, and currently he killed none.
- No, cuz Kaname's already taking care of that. And all the hunters are letting him.(well except Kaien) xP
I do not doubt kaname released shizuka from her cage. Important is the moment when he did it.
According to the manga, shizuka escaped with her lover. In other words her lover was ALIVE, and by default shizuka, in the moment of her release had no reason to kill zero's parents. - sorry, the whole shizuka thing is confusing...it's been awhile since that was brought up. So... the scene in volume 5 where shizuka said to ichiru " I'm satisfied ichiru, I've destroyed my nemesis, the Kiryuu's" are you saying that didn't happen, when it was clearly shown? Obviously SOMEONE told her that the kiryuu's killed her lover, or did SOMETHING if not that... but that's what Shizuka told ichiru, so why would she be lying...? Sometime after her release she DID have a reason to kill the kiryuu's or Ichiru wouldn't have said " You've finally had your revenge"
Do not forget that kaname motivated his action to release her in order for her to take revenge on zero's parents, but this is false since shizuka's lover was ALIVE. - It's not false, because she said herself that the kiryuu's killed her lover. WE find out later it's because "someone" put his name on the execution list. Who could that "someone" have been I wonder....? The person trying to manipulate the kiryuu's possibly...? For awhile I thought it was Rido who was behind it, but after Kaname saying that he's the one who let shizuka out of her cage.... it makes it that much more confusing and gives me more to think about...
Kaname tries to keep yuuki away from danger. And to not forgot that kaname is labeled as a dangerous pureblood, and he doesn't desire such thing for yuuki. If she would have stayed with him, probably she would be seen as an accomplice. - Of course, Kaname doesn't trust her enough to be an accomplice of his, but he does trust Kain and Ruka. I would be hurt if i were his lover....xP I've seen before stories where there are "partners in crime" who are lovers, and it works beautifully because they know each other so well and can work together wonderfully. Kaname's not strengthening his relationship with Yuuki any by leaving her behind....she could be helping him if he vaules his goal so greatly. Unless he thinks that she won't agree with with goal...?
I am glad kaname doesn't respect kaien. Currently kaien is more than useless. Apparently he's the hunters president,and the chairman of cross academy, but he has no idea what is happening in his academy. All he do is to stay on that chair and drink tea. - True, Kaien's a wimp, he needs to get more into action. He does when the time calls for it, but maybe he justs trusts that yuuki can handle the situation at the school....? And he did try to stop Kaname once, so that is trying. There's an entire association of vampire hunters whose job it is to control the vampires.... you could say that they have been lazy too for that matter. Kaito, Yagari, several others...what are they doing? Sitting back and letting Kaname do whatever he wants because they don't care if the purebloods are gone. That's not their job to decide that...
And i do not think kaien respect kaname either. when do they met, kaien came with the goal to kill kaname. when he attacked, he thought he's attacking kaname and not touma. - Umm...yea? He came to stop kaname because he was going to kill another pureblood. If he's going to continue this behavior of course kaien would stop him even if it means killing him, since he's a danger to part of the vampire society.
But even if kaname said he would kill anyone, even kaien, cross kaien is still alive, and stay on his chair doing nothing, except drinking tea.
So, kaname manipulated zero in protecting yuuki? Then i am okay with it. This means zero protected yuuki only because kaname told him so, if not zero would have left yuuki to die. - Zero protected Yuuki of his own free will, the only way Kaname manipulated him was by saying "I'm only allowing you to live to protect Yuuki." That's a threat to kill him if he goes against Yuuki... Very nice, Kaname. Should I praised you for this? Death threats seem to be very popular with the ladies these days. ;D
But this is false. Even I, who I am a yume admit that zero protected yuuki because he wanted to, because of the feelings he had for her.
Kaname told zero to be yuuki's shield, and also told him what would happen if he won't kill rido. kaname did not use mind control, or any kind of power. After this it was Zero's decission to deal with rido.
Nothing to really try and defend in that last bit...and i've typed enough anyways. Please read all since I kindly read every last word of this novel.
Well, let's count:
1. Zero to human yuuki *immediately after his trauma* - he slap yuuki's hands because she touched kaname. Zero even hurted yuuki physicaly - blood dripped from her fingers - Which trauma are you talking about...? I remember him slapping her hand away from touching kaname when he was little, at that time it didn't make her hand bleed.... I can't recall at the moment whether that happened, but are you lumping two incidents into one? And yes, Zero hated Kaname obviously because he hates purebloods, I would feel the same way as him... Of course he wouldn't want to be touched with the hand that cared for a pureblood whom he hated. But yes, it's also true that afterwards, Zero came to understand Yuuki'd relationship with Kaname, though in his heart he never fully agreed with it. Like in the first book where he would always snatch her away from kaname angrily... but he eventually got over that because he understood he couldn't stop her and he should respect her love for him.
2. Zero point his gun at yuuki, and said to her that in front of him stay a pureblood who triffles with human lives in their hand. In that moment zero hurt her emotionaly - Well yes, because he's unaware of even how she became a human, was he ever informed fully of her situation? Probably not, because well, it's kinda not his business with it having been a family issue at the start... But i still think he does deserve to know a little bit about it since she was his best friend. Having said that, he may have assummed that she was a vampire playing games with him pretending to be human... how is he supposed to know they have the power to turn their kids into human? But even so, at that time he also said what was on his mind "Did you think you could just come here and everything would be allright?" of course he knew it wouldn't be.... and he didn't want it to be because he just couldn't handle the shock of it, and knowing that she shared such a close blood bond with Kaname, he probably knew that even if he did try to fix things, it wouldn't work out because in the end she would choose kaname.... Zero probably thought this way, and was cruel to her to protect her from the pain of trying to continue an impossible relationship....atleast that's how he may or may not have seen it.
3. zero attacked yuuki and viciously bit her - the first time when he drank her blood - I distinctly remember him telling that idiot Yuuki SEVERAL times to stay away from him. he didn't want to bite her, he wanted to protect her. But she selfishly made it all about herself... Yuuki - " Oh, I see... I thought we were the same... I guess I was wrong...." She could have just tried to understand that he didn't want to be around her at that time and talked to him later or something...but that girl doesn't know how to listen.He tried to stop her because that nasty comment guilt-tripped him, and he may have talked to her, trying to explain...When the scent of her blood hit Zero, his vampire urges took over ( That which he had supressed for FOUR whole years, so of course it would be very powerful and hard to resist when hit so hard with it all of a sudden instead of gradually) he was driven to drink Yuuki's blood... it was an uncontrollable urge...and even afterwards he felt HORRIBLE and had a pained expression!! You say "attacked" like he viciously gashed at her throat with evil intent to kill....obviously that's not the case.
4. Zero throws yuuki away from the roof. - To get her out of the way, because he hates that pureblood, Rido, more than she does... He is a vile creature, plus he's the one responsible for killing his brother. He didn't want Yuuki involved in his fight, and plus it protected her anyways.
5. Zero point his gun at her, again. He said to her that he would kill her the next time when he would met her - save god she did nothing which have caused her death, because according to zero's words to kaien he would kill yuuki if he would have a reason to -, and that they are enemies. - Well? Did he kill her the next time he saw her? He surely must have since you seem to take his words so seriously. Tell me which chapter that happend...there seems to be a zombie Yuuki running amuck at cross academy. I find this funny that you take everything zero says so seriously...and yet so many yumes keep calling kaname a liar. Yes, they say he's lying about every word that comes out of his mouth about yuuki, to protect her and push her away. I say it's a possibility, but for now i have no reason to believe that, so i find that theory ridiculous. I seem to recall the first time Zero saw her, a year after that incident.... where was his gun? i saw his eyes looking at her and saying " Don't touch me" Obviously, I would also get very uncomfortable with the person who rejected me to be touching me at all. And then during that same chapter he told her " You stay out of this, this isn't some kind of game." That sounds m ore like either she's in the way, or he's trying to protect her.... but he didn't have the intent to kill written on his face. What happened the next time they met up? Well, he carried her when she passed out from blood loss at the cemetary. That's not what someone who wants to kill someone would do.... and when yuuki tried to drin his blood because she smelled a familiar scent, Zero did not try to stop her, but he held her tightly and close with his arm. and when she stopped he asked " You changed your mind? You've lost a lot of blood." That sounds like concern to me. she apologized but he said "no.." like it's okay. If he didn't like it he would have said something like "What were you trying to do just now..? you know we're in the hunter's association." or he could have said again to not touch him.... if he didn't like it. And yes, he did say to Kaien that he would kill her if there was a reason to. Obviously Yuuki won't do anything bad....but if for example she were to start killing humans, or something like that, or went crazy? Yes, I imagine Zero would want to be the one to take care of it... he wouldn't be able to bear the thought of anyone rough handling his precious yuuki.
6. zero carries a wounded vampire, aka yuuki, potato sac style. - Yup, he sure did. Or you know, he could have left her there, walking away coldly..."It's your problem... it has nothing to do with me." or dragged her through the dirt.... or shot her right there since you think he wants to kill her. Is this supposed to be a bad thing...? He can hold her closer this way, plus honestly, that's how children are held. I find it quite uncomfortable to be carrying around a kid bridal style. It certainly would be easier to carry an unconcious person over your shoulder, and more efficient. And actually there's no such thing as "potato sac style" whatever that is... it's actually called "Firefighter Carry" and here is the definition for it : This technique is for carrying a victim longer distances.
It is very difficult to get the person up to this position
from the ground. Getting the victim into position
requires a very strong rescuer or an assistant.
just incase you think i made this up, here is the link i got it from http://www.cert-la.com/liftcarry/Liftcarry.pdf And oh look, they agree with me that the "bridal style" is used for children. But it's also used for lighter people... maybe Zero thinks yuuki is not light? lol
7. zero flungs yuuki violently into a tree - before he giving her his blood - Did you see yuuki wince in pain? She would have shown if it hurt, so obviously he wasn't being as forceful as you think... she just stared at him with no reaction http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/38 And he could tell that she needed blood since she hadn't in awhile.... well obviously, because Kaname left, and he also said before that he doesn't want her eating blood tablets. So... basically he wants her to starve. Zero cares about her and offered his blood. Even Yuuki did the same thing to him in the beginning, he would say he didn't want it and push her away...but she still made her do it. So I say that gives him rights to do it atleast once....
8. zero points his gun at her again - ohh haha are you talking about how when yuuki said zero was protecting him? That was cute. I enjoyed that scene. Because Yuuki was spot on and it annoyed him xD That's why he pointed his gun lol. Not like he would actually kill her over such a silly thing, but it embarrassed him lol Then Sara came along and he put his gun down... which people assume means she stopped him from shooting yuuki xD Obviously, if he was really in an intent-to-kill mood, then he would have shot her right away, or pointed his gun and take his anger out on sara for interrupting. but instead he just left afterwards.
9. in the last chapter zero grab yuuki's arms with a strenght enough to cause her pain - Yuuki's a wimp... she's not used to pain because she's been pampered by so many people. Zero didn't want her to go to Kaname...for once, he held her back from him. So what if it caused yuuki a little bit of pain? It should make her realize he really didn't want her to go to him. Are you saying she's not allowed to experience any pain at all? Poor princess yuuki... she got her arm gripped by someone who cares about her. And was also stopped her from going to Kaname's fake stand in because he was too afraid to show up in person...oh wait, sara was more important, the real one was already there with her unless that's a fake too.
but kaname is killing certain purebloods for his plan,
Kaname tries to accomplish his original plan. Important is what he try to accomplish with it. Kaname tries to create a better world for yuuki, and for humans too. - Actually his original plan was to kill all the purebloods... yuuki came after.
used zero and ichiru so they can massacre purebloods,
I think kaname failed here. Ichiru killed no pureblood - heck, he was in love with the one who killed his parents -, and the only pureblood zero killed is rido (with yuuki's help ofc). - Kaname didn't even say that Ichiru killed a pureblood...? He said that he WANTED both the twins to become powerful hunters that would kill all the purebloods.( for him, since his plan is to get rid of all the purebloods)
After the battle with rido, Zero said that his goal is to kill all purebloods, and currently he killed none.
- No, cuz Kaname's already taking care of that. And all the hunters are letting him.(well except Kaien) xP caused zero's parents to die from letting shizuka out of her cage (which is probably NOT a lie ),
I do not doubt kaname released shizuka from her cage. Important is the moment when he did it.
According to the manga, shizuka escaped with her lover. In other words her lover was ALIVE, and by default shizuka, in the moment of her release had no reason to kill zero's parents. - sorry, the whole shizuka thing is confusing...it's been awhile since that was brought up. So... the scene in volume 5 where shizuka said to ichiru " I'm satisfied ichiru, I've destroyed my nemesis, the Kiryuu's" are you saying that didn't happen, when it was clearly shown? Obviously SOMEONE told her that the kiryuu's killed her lover, or did SOMETHING if not that... but that's what Shizuka told ichiru, so why would she be lying...? Sometime after her release she DID have a reason to kill the kiryuu's or Ichiru wouldn't have said " You've finally had your revenge"
Do not forget that kaname motivated his action to release her in order for her to take revenge on zero's parents, but this is false since shizuka's lover was ALIVE. - It's not false, because she said herself that the kiryuu's killed her lover. WE find out later it's because "someone" put his name on the execution list. Who could that "someone" have been I wonder....? The person trying to manipulate the kiryuu's possibly...? For awhile I thought it was Rido who was behind it, but after Kaname saying that he's the one who let shizuka out of her cage.... it makes it that much more confusing and gives me more to think about...
leaves yuuki without telling her anything,
Kaname tries to keep yuuki away from danger. And to not forgot that kaname is labeled as a dangerous pureblood, and he doesn't desire such thing for yuuki. If she would have stayed with him, probably she would be seen as an accomplice. - Of course, Kaname doesn't trust her enough to be an accomplice of his, but he does trust Kain and Ruka. I would be hurt if i were his lover....xP I've seen before stories where there are "partners in crime" who are lovers, and it works beautifully because they know each other so well and can work together wonderfully. Kaname's not strengthening his relationship with Yuuki any by leaving her behind....she could be helping him if he vaules his goal so greatly. Unless he thinks that she won't agree with with goal...?
and I don't think he respects kaien after threatening him saying that he'll destroy him or anyone who gets in his way.
I am glad kaname doesn't respect kaien. Currently kaien is more than useless. Apparently he's the hunters president,and the chairman of cross academy, but he has no idea what is happening in his academy. All he do is to stay on that chair and drink tea. - True, Kaien's a wimp, he needs to get more into action. He does when the time calls for it, but maybe he justs trusts that yuuki can handle the situation at the school....? And he did try to stop Kaname once, so that is trying. There's an entire association of vampire hunters whose job it is to control the vampires.... you could say that they have been lazy too for that matter. Kaito, Yagari, several others...what are they doing? Sitting back and letting Kaname do whatever he wants because they don't care if the purebloods are gone. That's not their job to decide that...
And i do not think kaien respect kaname either. when do they met, kaien came with the goal to kill kaname. when he attacked, he thought he's attacking kaname and not touma. - Umm...yea? He came to stop kaname because he was going to kill another pureblood. If he's going to continue this behavior of course kaien would stop him even if it means killing him, since he's a danger to part of the vampire society.
But even if kaname said he would kill anyone, even kaien, cross kaien is still alive, and stay on his chair doing nothing, except drinking tea.
SassyKnight wrote:
I agree with you fully Lilli!! What has Zero done that is bad? Zero is just angry and depressed because of his family...Kaname is depressed too...Hes killing Purebloods, threatening Kaien, using Zero and Ichiru...He MANIPULATES everyone...
So, kaname manipulated zero in protecting yuuki? Then i am okay with it. This means zero protected yuuki only because kaname told him so, if not zero would have left yuuki to die. - Zero protected Yuuki of his own free will, the only way Kaname manipulated him was by saying "I'm only allowing you to live to protect Yuuki." That's a threat to kill him if he goes against Yuuki... Very nice, Kaname. Should I praised you for this? Death threats seem to be very popular with the ladies these days. ;D
But this is false. Even I, who I am a yume admit that zero protected yuuki because he wanted to, because of the feelings he had for her.
Kaname told zero to be yuuki's shield, and also told him what would happen if he won't kill rido. kaname did not use mind control, or any kind of power. After this it was Zero's decission to deal with rido.
Nothing to really try and defend in that last bit...and i've typed enough anyways. Please read all since I kindly read every last word of this novel.
iiXerxes- Level-E
- Posts : 52
Join date : 2012-01-20
Location : In the bushes stalking pairings
Shoujo, I don't even think I can add anything else because you just said everything PERFECTLY. Great post! ^_^ I agree with EVERYTHING you just said...
Last edited by iiXerxes on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:20 am; edited 2 times in total
SassyKnight- Vampire Noble Class
- Posts : 338
Join date : 2011-10-17
Location : My Heart
I agree with EVERYTHING you said Shoujo!! Awesome novel post!
Shoujo-Zo18- Vampire Noble Class
- Posts : 347
Join date : 2011-06-05
Thanks! I try xerxes ^^ I tried hard to make my point made by replying to every point she made and it took awhile, but i did it for you because your views were attacked, and i support your views. <3
And thanks Sassa! x3
And thanks Sassa! x3
Last edited by Shoujo-Zo18 on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:36 am; edited 1 time in total
iiXerxes- Level-E
- Posts : 52
Join date : 2012-01-20
Location : In the bushes stalking pairings
Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Thanks! I try xerxes ^^ I tried hard to make my point made by replying to every point she made and it took awhile, but i did it for you because your views were attacked, and i support your views. <3
And thanks Sassa! x3
Thank you... <3 I appreciate it : )
Last edited by iiXerxes on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Bloodredhead- Pureblood Vampire
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Join date : 2011-06-05
Location : UK
Right general warning to everyone, i've noticed how rude people's tones have been recently to other members of the forum, and how people have posted comments which can really be seen as in trying to provoke a response from others. This isnt appropriate behaviour on a forum. Those who continue to do this will be dealt with by the staff, repeat offenders can expect to be temporarily banned from the forum for a set period of time.
Anyone who is confused as to the terms and conditions of participating in this forum please see the link below.
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t963-posting-and-writing-rules
Thank you
Anyone who is confused as to the terms and conditions of participating in this forum please see the link below.
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t963-posting-and-writing-rules
Thank you
Last edited by Bloodredhead on Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:51 am; edited 1 time in total
Shoujo-Zo18- Vampire Noble Class
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Join date : 2011-06-05
Sorry, I get a little defensive when my friends views are bashed so much.... I will try not to be so over the top in my after comments and only reply to the actual discussion topic. And also, I accidentally got the name wrong, but I had edited it... I revised my post, it was originally just meant to be a thank you anyways. Thank you for pointing out that i was out of line, I'll refrain from making posts aimed at anyone in particular, but I still plan on debating topics.
Bloodredhead- Pureblood Vampire
- Posts : 465
Join date : 2011-06-05
Location : UK
Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Sorry, I get a little defensive when my friends views are bashed so much.... I will try not to be so over the top in my after comments and only reply to the actual discussion topic. And also, I accidentally got the name wrong, but I had edited it... I revised my post, it was originally just meant to be a thank you anyways. Thank you for pointing out that i was out of line, I'll refrain from making posts aimed at anyone in particular, but I still plan on debating topics.
Okay, i can understnad you protecting and sticking up for your friends, but your method wasn't the best way to go about it. If you feel any offence i suggest sending a pm to the staff of the forum, not posting complaints publically.
Thankyou for editing your post, and please continue with the dicussion.
Kikotsukino- Level-E
- Posts : 54
Join date : 2011-11-17
nina wrote:Shoujo-Zo18 wrote: Zero has ample reason to have the personality he does due to what happened to him as a child. ( which we learned was because of Kaname in chapter 79 might I add....)
For the bolded part:
- FACT: When Shizuka escaped from her cage she escaped WITH her lover which simply means that he was still alive, or no? Hence Shizuka had NO reason to attack or seek for revenge at least from Kiryuus. So when Kaname said that he freed Shizuka in order to attack on Kiryuus … is it a lie or the truth?
- FACT: We know that Kaname lied before, saying that he killed Ouri whereas we know by FACT that Ouri was murdered from Sara.
- FACT: It is more than evident that Kaname wants to push Yuuki away for some reasons. Hence in order to do so he even lied to Yuuki.
So we know what his goal is >> to push Yuuki away and what method he used to do so >> by lying.
Now since we know all the above FACTS how you stated that what happened to Zero as a child was because of Kaname “which we learned in chapter 79 might I add....”
Can’t you see the evident lie there? Or you deliberately tossing aside the FACTS cuz do not suit in your attempt to badmouth Kaname? Which is it? I’m just asking lol.
Why did he let Yuuki crush on him though I wonder....? Because he is a very selfess guy who wouldn't go so far as to tell her who to love just because he cares for her...
Since when Zero had let Yuuki “crush” on Kaname? As far as I know BY FACTS when Zero met Yuuki she had already a “crush” on Kaname … didn’t she?
In FACT what Zero says (and I’m using his words since as it seems you only accept as valid only what Zero says lol) >>
Zero: “A PB vampire … and that human girl adores him
(Official volume 10)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2170-19/vampire-knight/chapter-44.html
So >>
1. When you say “crush” instead of “adore” you’re twisting FACTS from the actual manga apparently trying to downgrade the power or the level of Yuuki’s emotions for Kaname.
2. When you’re saying that Zero actually let Yuuki “crush” on Kaname you’re twisting FACTS of the manga cuz as I proved above Yukki was already IN LOVE with Kaname when Zero first met her.
3. Thus from where it stems your interpretation that Zero is a selfless guy because he let her “crush” on Kaname?
4. When he learnt that Yuuki was actually a PB vampire … did he or did he not point a gun on her because he was thinking his own emotions/hatred for vampires?
Also … did he or did he not revealed his romantic feelings to Yuuki AFTER Yuuki said to him >>
Yuuki: I want ONLY my big brother’s blood … it fills my head (official volume 10)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2172-21/vampire-knight/chapter-46.html
So, despite that Zero knew that Yuuki was IN LOVE with Kaname and also she was ready to leave with him, Zero expressed his love for her in that very moment and on top of that, in the end, he said that from now on they are enemies and that he shall kill her the next time.
Did he consider Yuuki’s feelings hearing all that from her dear friend; or he considered his own feelings and needs and hate there? Just asking …
And for the record I DO NOT deem Zero as a selfish guy in overall … I just wanted to underline that judging someone by isolating ONE moment or ONE action or ONE wording, tossing aside the big picture, then the judgement is highly possible to be wrong and narrow-minded.
he may have been pained by it but he never told Yuuki not to go after Kaname. All of this is fact from the manga,
Oh really? He NEVER … not once; he “told” her (with words or actions < which for some fans are louder than words lol) not to go after Kaname huh?
FACT #1
Yuuki: After that I’ll give Kaname a slap or two or three …
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/21
>> and Zero grabbed her arm … and before anyone says that Yuuki didn’t say that she’ll go to Kaname … well in order to give him some slaps she will have FIRST to find him no?
FACT #2
Yuuki: Once I’ve dealt with this problem I will stop Kaname
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/36
>> and while as we can see from the above scan Zero was leaving … at once when Yuuki said the magical phrase “I will stop Kaname” what he did again? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/37
>> he grabbed her again saying that Kaname is the filthier being.
FACT #3
Yuuki: Kaname … MY KANAME is over there … I HAVE TO GO WITH HIM
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/37
>> and what Zero is doing for the THIRD time? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79/5
>> he grabs her arm STOPPING her from GOING to Kaname …
When he badmouth Kaname when Yuuki says that she’ll go to Kaname in his way says >> “do not go”, moreover when he acts on it, by grabbing and stopping her from GOING … so when you say >>Shoujo-Zo18 wrote: but he never told Yuuki not to go after Kaname. All of this is fact from the manga,
>> for what facts are you talking about?
I don't agree that Kaname is selfless..because he monopolized everyone around him to protect the thing the most important to him, Yuuki
When you say monopolized everyone what exactly do you mean?
Monopolize definition:
1. To dominate by excluding others: monopolized the conversation.
2. to have, control, or make use of fully, excluding others
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/monopolize
According to above definition …Who; dominate in order to protect Yuuki? By any chance you mean the NC? Cuz as far as I know they had stated more than once that they following Kaname OUT of respect because he did NOT used his powers as a PB to control them. So who are “everyone around him” that he monopolized???
Just one reference >>
Kain: No matter who the enemy is … we’ll continue to keep watch … WE DO NOT OBEY YOU SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE A PB (volume 8 )
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2162-9/vampire-knight/chapter-36.html
( not caring what she'll think about his actions and keeping her out of all his plans ;
Do you by any chance know the reason of why Kaname left Yuuki out of his plan? Because as far as I know this is still veiled in the manga. Please provide the scan where it is stated that Kaname doesn’t care about what Yuuki thinks.
Cuz as far as I can understand from some recent FACTS for the manga … he is torn inside about Yuuki i.e. he cares and in fact he burns about what Yuuki thinks! >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/24
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/25
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/26
also in recent chapters i don't think its about protecting yuuki anymore..its about getting rid of all purebloods, his ultimate goal since ancient times,
Even IF he wants to get rid all the PBs (which it is not certain yet), for what and for who he wants and doing that? It isn’t for creating a safer/better world for Yuuki?
- FACT: Kaname: I will carry out what I refrained from doing during that first period of despair … FIRST I’ll deal with you all… (volume 9)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2169-6/vampire-knight/chapter-43.html
Kaname says that the extermination of the senate is a part of a plan he had as an ancestor and they were just the first to go. Viz his original plan (goal as you say) started since the 1st arc. A little afterwards he also says >>
- FACT: Kaname: I did it to protect the precious FUTURE … because they were devouring everything so greedily. (volume 10)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-28/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html
>> the PRECIOUS FUTURE and he is embracing Yuuki ^^
So, combining the above portions we can see that Kaname may carry out his original plan but he is doing so in order to PROTECT the precious future i.e. in this precious future Yuuki is at least included, no? And note that we are talking for the same plan that he had formed in his mind in ancient times and that he is continuing and now in the recent chapters.
- FACT: Kaname: Maybe I’ve been revelling in these happy times and avoiding IT … But I’ve made up my mind … I WILL PREPARE A PLACE WHERE YOU WON’T HAVE TO LIVE IN FEAR … (volume 8 )
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2161-33/vampire-knight/chapter-35.html
- FACT: Kaname: In my childish mind I felt that I had seen those eyes somewhere before … and then for some reason I thought this time I WANT TO KEEP PROTECTING THIS WARMTH
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-29/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
So is he or is he not carrying out his OP in order to prepare a safer place for Yuuki, protecting her warmth and the precious future???
Does he or does he not DOING his plan FOR Yuuki; whatever and IF this plan is?
And something more recent that underlines all the above and which confirms that Kaname’s plan/goal has ALWAYS the same CORE i.e. Yuuki!
Kaien: The plans you made that time (refers on Kaname’s thought to turn Yuuki into human again) never happened … After changing the plan is this the path you choose?
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/12
Kaname: It is only that my path constantly changed, but my motive HAS ALWAYS[u] BEEN THE [u]SAME
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/75/26
His motive is always the same … what could possibly be his motive when he was thinking to turn Yuuki into a human again? What he would have to gain from that decision? Isn’t apparent that “his gain” was Yuuki’s protection/happiness?
>> His motive has ALWAYS been the SAME … ALWAYS > from the moment he saw Yuuki’s eyes until NOW. Which is his UNCHANGED motive; according to the above portions that I’ve provided, is to prepare a safer place for Yuuki, protecting her warmth and the precious future … only his path constantly changed i.e. the way he could achieve his goal!
So, where are your FACTS which can counter back the above FACTS that proving your interpretation wrong???
And to go back to >>
I don't agree that Kaname is selfless
How selfish could ever Kaname be; who is willing to sacrifice his OWN life in order to protect another being > Yuuki???
How selfish could ever Kaname be; who instead of taking Yuuki and disappear sending the whole world to hell, he prefers to set her free and try to prepare a safest world and NOT only for Yuuki … pushing away his only love and hope for happiness … the ONLY light into his life???
How selfish could ever Kaname be; who helped the human villagers to survive after the climate change? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-26/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html
How selfish could ever Kaname be; who shared his blood with the human villagers as medicine and who refused to turn his fangs into any human being to the extent of passing out??? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-27/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-54910-31/vampire-knight/chapter-62.html
How selfish could ever Kaname be; who didn’t say a word to humans who despite what he had done for them, they casted him away because of his different nature? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-11/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html
And lastly … how selfish could EVER Kaname be; who was willing to sacrifice his own life not for one beloved person BUT for saving the WHOLE HUMAN race???!
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-6/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html
So please … stop looking Kaname ONLY through Zero’s eyes –who is biased from the day ONE, without knowing ANYTHING about Kaname- and start to look ALL the FACTS that the author provides … or else your estimations and judgements bearing limited value in the best case …
It would be nice if he could achieve his goal of making the world safer for humans, without killing so many people. It would be nice if someone could understand that point of view once in awhile ^^; It's like the killing goes entirely un-noticed >.< ( Zero kills level E's only, vampires gone mad who present a current threat to humans and cannot be controlled, unless some pureblood is wiling to dole out all their blood... which i don't see happening ^^;)
Are we gonna judge Kaname and VK with our humanish standards??? Because IF we do that then almost every character in VK would be deemed as murderers right now!
1. Even Yuuki has killed Rido and took her Artemis bearing the intention to KILL whoever had a death wish << this in OUR HUMANISH world it is a CRIME.
2. Are we talking about numbers? Then Kaien and Yagari as old hunters have slaughtered numerous vampires till now and Kaien even tried to KILL Juuri who hadn’t done anything wrong! << This is a crime in our humanish world!
3. Did or didn’t Takuma tried to kill his own grandfather? Was he in the hunters list? Was he a level-e vampire? NO … so Takuma is a murderer as well judging from our humanish scope. (I think these are enough examples to convey my point here)
3. And if you go with the motto >> “yeah but the hunters are applying the law” >> what law? The law that says “KILLING ANY VAMPIRE ISN’T A CRIME”?! Note any vampire regardless if is Level-e or NOT. So according with the hunters and humanish LAW IN VK Kaname hasn’t commit ANY crime regardless the number of the vampires he has killed.
Do you by any chance know that Shizuka –a PB who killed two hunters (i.e. humans) and turned another human into vampire- she was NOT in hunters’ list?
Therefore how fair or right is hunters’ list which as it seems you only recognise; can you answer me???
4. Even before that law starts to exist in VK society as it formed now … the hunters in ancient times had killed numerous vampires and PBs along side with Kaname and other ancestors’ PBs and saved the human race from doom!
So really what have change now? OR you haven’t read Sara’s plan (or earlier Asato’s) that their wish was to kill ALL the PBs and make the humans and the rest of the vampires their slaves?
Hasn’t that WAR similar characteristics as the ancient times only that now this war it’s taking place underground; rather than open wide as in the past??? Isn’t the CORE of these wars ALWAYS the same; >> domination of the vampires over human race?
So really … what different Kaname is doing NOW from the PAST? Hadn’t the ancestor woman wanted the same thing and dictated Kaname to do so? I haven’t seen any of the Zeki’s calling the HW awful though!
But regardless if Kaname commits crimes or not, HE is the first one who has condemned himself … firstly he is more than cruel to his own self because if you had took a step back and watched his character you would have realised that Kaname isn’t enjoying with his actions … he is bearing a burden upon his shoulders that is killing him, first! He was the most peaceful PB ever. Do you ever bothered to wonder what drove Kaname to this path now and in the past as well? Why to even try to save the world; the moment that he could enjoy his immortal life sending the whole world to hell!?
Believe me … Kaname would be the happiest IF he could find another way.
And bottom line … IMO we can judge the characters in VK using only one criterion>> are the killings that are bounded to do justified? Are they killing bad guys or not? Because bad guys who can inflict harm and disaster aren’t ONLY the level-es or the vampires who are on hunters list … on the contrary are the PBs and the nobles’ vampires who have the power and the means to do so.
Therefore … give to Kaname at least the benefit of the doubt, until everything will be revealed and we know what exactly is he doing; why; and what he will achieve by doing it, before you deemed him as mean, awful, selfish, serial-killer #@$% etc.
Zero kills level E's only, vampires gone mad who present a current threat to humans and cannot be controlled, unless some pureblood is wiling to dole out all their blood... which i don't see happening
5. Really??? Then this vampire was level-e??? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/2
>> who later Zero killed on the spot? >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/7
No … so you are wrong cuz Zero has killed a vampire who WASN’T a level-e as you claimed. And Yuuki was against his action. Does this make him a criminal? According to VK LAW no … but if the VK law applies to Zero why it shouldn’t apply to Kaname?
And btw … the biggest crime isn’t harming humans?
Well in this case Zero devoured a HUMAN who moreover was his own brother!
So if we attempt to apply OUR humanish standards and ethics then Zero have done an atrocity there >> he devoured a HUMAN being, but I haven’t seen any of his supports to characterize Zero creepy, awful, monster and ***** etc etc once!
Or your ethics applied ONLY to Kaname?
That’s why I said that we can NOT judge Kaname neither the whole VK world according with our ethic and morals because in this way most of the characters have done atrocities …
And something lastly for this matter … >>
It would be nice if someone could understand that point of view once in awhile ^^; It's like the killing goes entirely un-noticed >.<
Do you even realise what you are claiming above? Are you saying that Kaname’s supporters have NO ethics and morals???? That they are supporting a serial-killer???
Who give you the right to judge Kaname’s supporters like that? This is an assault/offense and you have NO right to play high and mighty. Watch what you’re accusing for, other PEOPLE … your hate for Kaname doesn’t allow you to offend people’s morals and ethics! Enough said *sigh*******************
PS 1. My above long answer, apply as well to your fellows-shippers SassyKnight and iiXerxes … you seem like, a close team here… so I just took your post as a reference only to answer overall.
PS 2. If any of you want to counter back my post you should do it by providing FACTS which are supported from the manga that contradict my FACTS from the manga cuz as you can see I tried to back up my words using scans and wordings from the manga. If you won’t do that then your constantly attempt to blacken Kaname, in every thread, “garnishing” him with all kind of epithets and twisting FACTS could be deemed as deliberately attempt for flaming and provoking the other fandom.
And for backing up my words again click on the spoiler >>
- Spoiler:
Everything Yuki said about Kaname as a human was when she knew the "Prince Charming" side of Kaname. But now he's completely different so we dont really know what she desires now
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t6p70-zero-or-kaname#26033
******************https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1121-what-do-you-think-will-happen-in-vampire-knight-chapter-80#26044Shoujo-Zo18 wrote: Kaname isolated her from any friends for a year.
I wonder if she didn't trust Kaname because he was part of the night class and she thought he was luring in her friend Yuuki with his charms, but in secret was not a good guy. I would understand her point of view if that was it... I also don't like guys my friends date if I don't trust them.SassyKnight wrote: Kaname can be...He killed vampires, he let Shizuka out, he used Zero, the whole night class for Yuki's protection, he's confused Yuki and made her extremely upset. Kaname is making Yuki suffer...
********************Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:SassyKnight wrote: She even said she know EVERYTHING about Zero, but NOTHING about Kaname! She KNOWS Zero! The Kaname she knew is gone! He's a totally different person now! And that's why whatever she said when she was human about Kaname most likely changed....
Sorry, I was originally coming back to see if anyone had replied to my post... but as I was looking for it I found this. Sassa I have to say that your post is absolutely beautiful and exactly what I was thinking! x3 I bolded one point you made just because I kinda said something similar in another post just now...that there is no way to know what yuuki is thinking about kaname yet. But I actually love every single word you wrote :3
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t87p250-who-do-you-think-yuki-loves-more-kaname-or-zeroiiXerxes wrote: She looks possessed when going to follow kaname. Why do i feel as if he did something..knowing kaname, he would do things like that since he's done awful things before. But u once again ignore the obvious thing. That she was crying for zero and IGNORED kaname. If she's so focused on kaname like you said, why didn't she care he disappeared huh? I think yuuki's pretty frustrated with kaname right now...I wouldn't be surprised. But it isn't like yuuki to just forget everything and walk to kaname like a zombie. IMO she looks completely out of it and thats not really romantic but weird. And I'm pretty sure she looked sad when first talking to kaname because of zero's grip hurting her arm. It said that in a translation...but at the end, you fail to see that zero and yuuki looked like they were having a conversation through thoughts. being able to tell what each other's thinking surpasses love... I think zero and yuuki have a much greater bond than kaname and yuuki...but you guys don't see any love in their relationship (i have no idea why..) so i might as well stop here. Just because kaname was standing near her doesn't mean her thoughts were only focused on kaname...yeah she says his name at the end but that's not that exciting...she's realizing she needs to STOP him, not go to him or anything.
That's your opinion. but even if it were a zeki scene, I'd still think it's kind of weird. more creepy than romantic.
"My kaname...I must follow him" It's like she's going to obey her master.
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1120p30-dissapointed-in-chapter-79#26099iiXerxes wrote: but kaname is killing certain purebloods for his plan, used zero and ichiru so they can massacre purebloods, caused zero's parents to die from letting shizuka out of her cage (which is probably NOT a lie ),https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t6p80-zero-or-kaname#26140SassyKnight wrote: I agree with you fully Lilli!! What has Zero done that is bad? Zero is just angry and depressed because of his family...Kaname is depressed too...Hes killing Purebloods, threatening Kaien, using Zero and Ichiru...He MANIPULATES everyone...
Yuki looked similar to Aidou when Rido was manipulating him...
When Yuki said "My Kaname..." She was most likely in a trance...
I think all the above are more than ENOUGH to prove my point! But I can find plenty more on the same tone …
Nina ~ I BOW to you for this AWRSOME comment!!. Am i the "Fifth one to Agree to your post? 
You TOTALLY summed up everything in ONE go. I couldnt have said this better myself. I agree Completely! > Believe this is what we call "Co-sign" to your posts 
And thank you for speaking up for us "YUME and Kaname" supporters, yes we have moral/ethics. Just because we are NOT supporting Zero OR Zeki DOES not mean we hate Zero as a character OR that we dont have our OWN morals/ethics.
Anyways. I'll keep your post as reference. Love your posts like ALWAYS and
and 
for your Awesome FACTS in the manga *It makes me cry* >> Kaname is NOT selfish, in fact he's really selfless to me. Only true fans can see this side to him.
Divine Rose- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 621
Join date : 2011-09-09
Location : Middle of Nowhere
Humor : Mwa hahahahahahaha...
How many times must it be said that disagreeing with someone is not disrespecting them? Especially saying someone is wrong when they got established facts wrong. And how many times must it be told the meaning of bashing? *sigh* It's getting old. Really old.
@Sassy:
You are implying that only Zekis deserve to have their opinion respected and not Yumes. I am not saying this is what you are saying, but evidence from your past posts support you are. If you don't get respected it is because you have double standards. Which a lot of Zekis seem to have here.
@Sassy:
You are implying that only Zekis deserve to have their opinion respected and not Yumes. I am not saying this is what you are saying, but evidence from your past posts support you are. If you don't get respected it is because you have double standards. Which a lot of Zekis seem to have here.
aya-chan- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 1154
Join date : 2011-03-03
Location : here
Humor : oiseaux de se ressemble s'assemble
shizza24 wrote:nina wrote:
And btw … the biggest crime isn’t harming humans?
Well in this case Zero devoured a HUMAN who moreover was his own brother!
So if we attempt to apply OUR humanish standards and ethics then Zero have done an atrocity there >> he devoured a HUMAN being, but I haven’t seen any of his supports to characterize Zero creepy, awful, monster and ***** etc etc once!
Or your ethics applied ONLY to Kaname?
That’s why I said that we can NOT judge Kaname neither the whole VK world according with our ethic and morals because in this way most of the characters have done atrocities …
Um... I would suggest you to re-read those chapters because clearly the fact that Zero devoured Ichiru wasn't an atrocity as you make it out to be because
- Ichiru forced Zero to devour him by purposely wounding him so that he'd need blood and then forcing him to fulfill Ichiru's dying wish (becoming one with Zero).
- Ichiru was already injured and was dying anyway and hence he wanted his brother to take in whatever life left so that he could get his last wish.
Zero clearly never wanted for this to happen. He loved his twin brother and that's a fact. His regretting Ichiru's being involved in everything in this recent chapter also confirms it. I am not going to argue over what Kaname does and doesn't do but... I fail to see how you can call this as an atrocious crime on Zero's part..... I mean, seriously? :/
I suggest you to re-read nina's post, especialy the part I had bolded.
Your zeki companion, shoujo-Zo18, judged kaname based on OUR humanish standards, and had not see the situation from a vampire pov.
So, if we apply OUR humanish standards to zero, he did commited an atrocity by devouring his own brother.
@shoujo-Zo18
You wrote a post where you said that kaname is a selfish guy, and zero is the angel. As response, nina gave you a detail reply where she disected your post word by word and brought facts to sustain her words.
You were invited by nina to sustain your words with facts too. In one of your post you mentioned that you can provide facts too. Currently, all I can see is your opinion and your own interpretation, and you hadn't provide facts.
Nina took her time and posted a long reply. If you have an ounce of respect for the time she wasted, then you would write a similar reply, using facts, and not your own interpretation.
And while you're doing this you won't used YOUR ethics and morals.
Beside, kaname has every right to cutt sara's head off, since according to the treat between hunters and vampires, kaname has the right to deal with the ones who don't respect the law.
These days we, yume, were accused of not having ethics and morals, or when a zeki said that yuuki was possesed or she was in trance, or kaname was constantly bashed.
You're free to spread your love for zero , but not bashing kaname while you're spreading your love for your favorite chara.
And if you can't spread your love for zero without downgrading kaname, then the problems lays with you.
nina- Vampire Knight
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Location : My world lalala Kanameland <3
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Notice: Because the number of the posts that the staff should take under consideration is too many, hence will take some time, I suggest you to:
1. Stop fighting … the best way to deal with bashing/flaming/trolling is to report the posts/posters or contact with the staff.
2. I suggest you to reconsider your posts and edit them on your own removing threats/insults and in general comments that are against the rules. Note that characterizations or criticism in public about the staff and the forum in general is not allowed … you can always contact with the staff for your complaints.
3. The staff has kept already the initial posts.
1. Stop fighting … the best way to deal with bashing/flaming/trolling is to report the posts/posters or contact with the staff.
2. I suggest you to reconsider your posts and edit them on your own removing threats/insults and in general comments that are against the rules. Note that characterizations or criticism in public about the staff and the forum in general is not allowed … you can always contact with the staff for your complaints.
3. The staff has kept already the initial posts.
Katherine- Vampire Knight
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Divine Rose wrote:
How many times must it be said that disagreeing with someone is not disrespecting them? Especially saying someone is wrong when they got established facts wrong. And how many times must it be told the meaning of bashing? *sigh* It's getting old. Really old.
@Sassy:
You are implying that only Zekis deserve to have their opinion respected and not Yumes. I am not saying this is what you are saying, but evidence from your past posts support you are. If you don't get respected it is because you have double standards. Which a lot of Zekis seem to have here.
I completely agree with your post Divine...
I think a lot of yumes like zero too, as I do...I like it of someone says how great and hot Zero is, I wouldn´t rate that bad,
@ aya-chan and nina:
You are right...you can share your love for a character without bashing someone, we should all respect the others! And it is wrong to wright about ethnics and morals...everyone understands something else in them...it´s absolutely respectless to judge people you don´t even know!
Edit: Sorry I posted it the same time you posted nina, I hope it´s not bad that I did it after your main post
nina- Vampire Knight
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Katherine wrote:
Edit: Sorry I posted it the same time you posted nina, I hope it´s not bad that I did it after your main post
It is fine Katherine
**************************
Will be highly appreciated to move on the conversation staying ONLY on topic.
Thank you in advance.
Bloodredhead- Pureblood Vampire
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Announcement
Due to the events of last night all posts which contained content not appropriate to the thread discussion, have been deleted. Last night’s behaviour was inappropriate for a forum which main focus is for discussion. If you wish to flame/troll/bash etc. I suggest finding another forum to be on.
Everyone was warned before about conduct on the forum, and this warning was ignored. Therefore action will now be taken accordingly by the staff. I advise all members to watch their behaviour from now on; as such events will not be taken lightly.
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aya-chan- Vampire Knight
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Shoujo-Zo18 - I saw much later that you replied to me. Because of this my reply to you came late too. Sorry
Your quotes are under spoiler.
I am talking about his trauma to lose his parents and to be turned into a vampire.
Chapter 44, volume 10
Zero: I told you don’t touch me after you have touch him.
Yuuki: Sorry…I will leave bandages for your neck so you can change them.
http://1.1.1.4/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.15.jpg
Zero: I heard you. Just leave them there and go.
After this, duet o different reasons, zero broke a mirror and yuuki returns in his room.
http://1.1.1.1/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.17.jpg
Yuuki: Zero—No, your hand is cut from the mirror. Take your arm away.
Zero: Don’t touch me!
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.18.jpg
And Zero hurt Yuuki, and her hand is bleeding.
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.19.jpg
After, even yuuki said she was kinda scared
Yuuki: I was a little scared.
So now zero thought she pretented to be human? Hahaha
Zero, since he had 12/13 years he could sense vampires: he sensed shizuka, and he sensed kaname too. Zero’s ability to sense vampires it’s pretty high. and since he told yuuki he will never let her become a vampire, and since yuuki thought she’s a human, and not a vampire, it’s obvious zero never thought she pretended to be a human.
Also, zero’s words from 37, volume 8, proves that he thought yuuki was turned into a human, and yuuki had not pretended to be a human.
Zero: Coming here to talk you think it will make any difference? Discussing things like transforming humans into vampires…but of course you transformed from a vampire into a human.
You mentioned about zero not being informed about yuuki’s situation. When yuuki came to talk with him, he pointed his gun at her and said hurtful words like:
Zero: On the other side of this door I sense an arrogant pureblood who toys with people.
And he hadn't give her a chance to explain herself.
Are you reffering at zero being informed since the beggining that yuuki’s a pureblood vampire, and not a human? I am glad he wasn’t informed.
What would have happened to yuuki if a boy fill with hatred towards pureblood vampires would have knew that the girl who patted his head, or that he stay at the same table with her is one of the beings he hate the most?
For four years yuuki and zero lived in the same house. For four years she cared for him. Countless time she feed him, but even with all these, zero rejected yuuki, pointed his gun at her, and said hurtful words.
I think you’re confussing anime with manga.
In manga – chapter 3 for refference -, yuuki’s hand wasn’t hurt, thus zero had nothing which should have influence his control.
In manga, the last time when yuuki talked with zero was when it happened that quarel between him and night class.
After this yuuki noticed that zero is hiding something and she came to look after him. She found him, and wanted to turn around to face him, but she couldn’t. What is happening after is zero baring his fangs into her neck.
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_112.jpg
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_113.jpg
http://1.1.1.5/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_114_115.jpg
In chapter 43, zero wanted to badly to be the one who kill rido, that he did not like someone to steal „his prey”.
Zero: Stay back. Don’t steal my prey.
.
.
You’re in the way.
In the moment zero threw yuuki off the roof she was not in danger. Zero, with his own words motivated his reasons for her not staying in his way.
Before he departing ways with yuuki, he voiced his goal to kill all purebloods, including yuuki. A year later, zero had the same goal in his mind.
Chapter 53, volume 11.
Kaien: A year ago you told me you were going to kill her. I know you’re not the kind of person who’d break hunters regulations and hunt purebloods without a legitimate reason.
Zero: I suppose. But I would kill her the moment I have a legitimate reason to do so.
Note, that he said he would do it if he would have a reason to.
They met at the soiree, and he wasn’t nice with yuuki at all. He said to her, using a harsh tone „Don’t touch me” And later he wasn’t nice with her either.
They stayed together after kaname departure, and he was able to see that yuuki is the same, but this doesn’t change what he had done or said to her.
Currently, I do not think he is able to pull the trigger, but him poiting the gun at her due to a whim, or because he feel the need to doesn’t bring him fame.
So now yuuki is fat/weight a lot and he needed that style to carry her. And I guess Maria is light since he carried her „bridal style”.
However, even if yuuki weight a lot, zero had no problem to carry with his free hand another vampire, Aidou. Since Aidou was carried that way, does this mean he’s lighter than yuuki?
From the scans you can see that zero dragged her to the woods and flung her violently into a tree. Yuuki not complaing, or not crying doesn’t mean is right for a man to do this to a woman. Zero had the option to not flung her into a tree, however he did it.
About kaname not wanting yuuki to take blood tablets: this happened in chapter 51. Yuuki was hungry and kaname wasn’t home. Aidou advice her to take some tables while she’s waiting for kaname.
Kaname came home in that moment and said to aidou to not give her those tablets. Yuuki didn’t need those tablets since kaname came home and he could provide her blood.
Yuuki protect zero at the begging of the chapter, when she thought the hunters want to do something to zero.
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.06.jpg
Zero points his gun at yuuki, for the third time, at the end of the chapter.
According to s2scans:
Yuuki: Dissapearance of all purebloods you actually didn’t think of that. Zero is much more gentle compared to others. So your heart was not hurt by it.
And then zero point his gun at her due to nothing.
http://1.1.1.1/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.36.jpg
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.37.jpg
What are you saying? While yuuki was with kaname, he should have make her used with pain, so for the moment zero grab her to not be a wimp?
And yes, I am saying yuuki shouldn’t experience physical pain. If zero would have cared for her he wouldn’t have used too much strenght to stop her.
Kaname want to accomplish his original plan for yuuki - To built a future where she can live without fear.
Nina gave you a detail reply before - you're free to read it.
How you said he wanted for the twins to become powerful hunters that would kill purebloods. Correct me if I am wrong, but twins doesn’t involve two persons? So, kaname wanted both of them to become powerful hunters who would kill purebloods, not only zero.
Beside, ichiru couldn’t be a hunter due o what happened in his mother womb, when zero took a part of ichiru life. Even zero’s parents said that ichiru would never be a hunter.
At the age of 12 zero was able to sense vampires, ichiru wasn’t.
And a person who agree with kaname plan to kill pureblood is zero too. In one of chapters he said to kaien that kaname is doing something he doesn’t intend to stop.
http://1.1.1.5/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.03.jpg
Hunters are known to hate purebloods – the only ones who can turn humans into vampires – and they have no reason to stop kaname to do something they wish to.
In the scene you have showed shizuka is not lying, and I never said shizuka is lying. However, I say that in the last chapter kaname is lying.
Words sustain by bonus story: The scarlet cherry blossom’s scattered only, volume 8
Shizuka – in maria’s body – to ichiru: He came with me when I propose we ran away together…but after that…what was waiting for him was…(means his death)
When shizuka was released from the cage, she hadn’t ran alone, she ran away together with her lover, thus means her lover was ALIVE.
Kaname release her under the motive for her to take revenge on zero’s parents. The problem with kaname words is that in the moment he freed her, shizuka had no reason to go after zero’s parents to kill them because her lover was ALIVE.
What happened after her release is not kaname responsibility.
The person who put shizuka’s lover on hunters list is the council at rido orders. This is proved by manga
>>>kaname chapter 19
We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka - refference to rido - and continued in chapter 20
I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.
>>>Maria chapter 26
There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.
>>>Ichiru chapter 40
I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.
All these quotes, as a whole show rido as the real culprit.
And fanbook
and you can see better in this one
In fanbook hino reveal information about characters she had created, and is futile for her to promote false information about her own story.
Is not about kaname not trusting yuuki. Is about he wanting to keep her away from danger. However, kaname was aware that she would take some decisions while they are parted and he even advice her to not hesitate.
Beside, we don’t know kaname plan, and we still don’t know why he decided to take all these measures, thus we still don’t know if yuuki would have or not agree with him.
Hunters support kaname in his doing, because if purebloods are gone, less humans turned into vampires. Hunters nature is to loath vampires, and hunt them. Kaname killing purebloods is like Heaven to them.
But since we’re talking about hunters, let’s talk about zero. Zero knows pretty well that sara’s tablets caused chaos in cross academy, and his role as a hunter was to take care of the situation or at least report it to hunters president. However, when he was asked by kaien if he knows who spread the tablets, zero covered sara answering NO.
Your quotes are under spoiler.
- Spoiler:
- Which trauma are you talking about...? I remember him slapping her hand away from touching kaname when he was little, at that time it didn't make her hand bleed.... I can't recall at the moment whether that happened, but are you lumping two incidents into one? And yes, Zero hated Kaname obviously because he hates purebloods, I would feel the same way as him... Of course he wouldn't want to be touched with the hand that cared for a pureblood whom he hated. But yes, it's also true that afterwards, Zero came to understand Yuuki'd relationship with Kaname, though in his heart he never fully agreed with it. Like in the first book where he would always snatch her away from kaname angrily... but he eventually got over that because he understood he couldn't stop her and he should respect her love for him.
I am talking about his trauma to lose his parents and to be turned into a vampire.
Chapter 44, volume 10
Zero: I told you don’t touch me after you have touch him.
Yuuki: Sorry…I will leave bandages for your neck so you can change them.
http://1.1.1.4/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.15.jpg
Zero: I heard you. Just leave them there and go.
After this, duet o different reasons, zero broke a mirror and yuuki returns in his room.
http://1.1.1.1/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.17.jpg
Yuuki: Zero—No, your hand is cut from the mirror. Take your arm away.
Zero: Don’t touch me!
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.18.jpg
And Zero hurt Yuuki, and her hand is bleeding.
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/09-044.0/compressed/vampire_knight_44.19.jpg
After, even yuuki said she was kinda scared
Yuuki: I was a little scared.
- Spoiler:
- Well yes, because he's unaware of even how she became a human, was he ever informed fully of her situation? Probably not, because well, it's kinda not his business with it having been a family issue at the start... But i still think he does deserve to know a little bit about it since she was his best friend. Having said that, he may have assummed that she was a vampire playing games with him pretending to be human... how is he supposed to know they have the power to turn their kids into human? But even so, at that time he also said what was on his mind "Did you think you could just come here and everything would be allright?" of course he knew it wouldn't be.... and he didn't want it to be because he just couldn't handle the shock of it, and knowing that she shared such a close blood bond with Kaname, he probably knew that even if he did try to fix things, it wouldn't work out because in the end she would choose kaname.... Zero probably thought this way, and was cruel to her to protect her from the pain of trying to continue an impossible relationship....atleast that's how he may or may not have seen it.
So now zero thought she pretented to be human? Hahaha
Zero, since he had 12/13 years he could sense vampires: he sensed shizuka, and he sensed kaname too. Zero’s ability to sense vampires it’s pretty high. and since he told yuuki he will never let her become a vampire, and since yuuki thought she’s a human, and not a vampire, it’s obvious zero never thought she pretended to be a human.
Also, zero’s words from 37, volume 8, proves that he thought yuuki was turned into a human, and yuuki had not pretended to be a human.
Zero: Coming here to talk you think it will make any difference? Discussing things like transforming humans into vampires…but of course you transformed from a vampire into a human.
You mentioned about zero not being informed about yuuki’s situation. When yuuki came to talk with him, he pointed his gun at her and said hurtful words like:
Zero: On the other side of this door I sense an arrogant pureblood who toys with people.
And he hadn't give her a chance to explain herself.
Are you reffering at zero being informed since the beggining that yuuki’s a pureblood vampire, and not a human? I am glad he wasn’t informed.
What would have happened to yuuki if a boy fill with hatred towards pureblood vampires would have knew that the girl who patted his head, or that he stay at the same table with her is one of the beings he hate the most?
For four years yuuki and zero lived in the same house. For four years she cared for him. Countless time she feed him, but even with all these, zero rejected yuuki, pointed his gun at her, and said hurtful words.
- Spoiler:
- I distinctly remember him telling that idiot Yuuki SEVERAL times to stay away from him. he didn't want to bite her, he wanted to protect her. But she selfishly made it all about herself... Yuuki - " Oh, I see... I thought we were the same... I guess I was wrong...." She could have just tried to understand that he didn't want to be around her at that time and talked to him later or something...but that girl doesn't know how to listen.He tried to stop her because that nasty comment guilt-tripped him, and he may have talked to her, trying to explain...When the scent of her blood hit Zero, his vampire urges took over ( That which he had supressed for FOUR whole years, so of course it would be very powerful and hard to resist when hit so hard with it all of a sudden instead of gradually) he was driven to drink Yuuki's blood... it was an uncontrollable urge...and even afterwards he felt HORRIBLE and had a pained expression!! You say "attacked" like he viciously gashed at her throat with evil intent to kill....obviously that's not the case.
I think you’re confussing anime with manga.
In manga – chapter 3 for refference -, yuuki’s hand wasn’t hurt, thus zero had nothing which should have influence his control.
In manga, the last time when yuuki talked with zero was when it happened that quarel between him and night class.
After this yuuki noticed that zero is hiding something and she came to look after him. She found him, and wanted to turn around to face him, but she couldn’t. What is happening after is zero baring his fangs into her neck.
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_112.jpg
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_113.jpg
http://1.1.1.5/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/01-003.0/compressed/Vampire_Knight_v01_ch03_114_115.jpg
- Spoiler:
- To get her out of the way, because he hates that pureblood, Rido, more than she does... He is a vile creature, plus he's the one responsible for killing his brother. He didn't want Yuuki involved in his fight, and plus it protected her anyways.
In chapter 43, zero wanted to badly to be the one who kill rido, that he did not like someone to steal „his prey”.
Zero: Stay back. Don’t steal my prey.
.
.
You’re in the way.
In the moment zero threw yuuki off the roof she was not in danger. Zero, with his own words motivated his reasons for her not staying in his way.
- Spoiler:
- Well? Did he kill her the next time he saw her? He surely must have since you seem to take his words so seriously. Tell me which chapter that happend...there seems to be a zombie Yuuki running amuck at cross academy. I find this funny that you take everything zero says so seriously...and yet so many yumes keep calling kaname a liar. Yes, they say he's lying about every word that comes out of his mouth about yuuki, to protect her and push her away. I say it's a possibility, but for now i have no reason to believe that, so i find that theory ridiculous. I seem to recall the first time Zero saw her, a year after that incident.... where was his gun? i saw his eyes looking at her and saying " Don't touch me" Obviously, I would also get very uncomfortable with the person who rejected me to be touching me at all. And then during that same chapter he told her " You stay out of this, this isn't some kind of game." That sounds m ore like either she's in the way, or he's trying to protect her.... but he didn't have the intent to kill written on his face. What happened the next time they met up? Well, he carried her when she passed out from blood loss at the cemetary. That's not what someone who wants to kill someone would do.... and when yuuki tried to drin his blood because she smelled a familiar scent, Zero did not try to stop her, but he held her tightly and close with his arm. and when she stopped he asked " You changed your mind? You've lost a lot of blood." That sounds like concern to me. she apologized but he said "no.." like it's okay. If he didn't like it he would have said something like "What were you trying to do just now..? you know we're in the hunter's association." or he could have said again to not touch him.... if he didn't like it. And yes, he did say to Kaien that he would kill her if there was a reason to. Obviously Yuuki won't do anything bad....but if for example she were to start killing humans, or something like that, or went crazy? Yes, I imagine Zero would want to be the one to take care of it... he wouldn't be able to bear the thought of anyone rough handling his precious yuuki.
Before he departing ways with yuuki, he voiced his goal to kill all purebloods, including yuuki. A year later, zero had the same goal in his mind.
Chapter 53, volume 11.
Kaien: A year ago you told me you were going to kill her. I know you’re not the kind of person who’d break hunters regulations and hunt purebloods without a legitimate reason.
Zero: I suppose. But I would kill her the moment I have a legitimate reason to do so.
Note, that he said he would do it if he would have a reason to.
They met at the soiree, and he wasn’t nice with yuuki at all. He said to her, using a harsh tone „Don’t touch me” And later he wasn’t nice with her either.
They stayed together after kaname departure, and he was able to see that yuuki is the same, but this doesn’t change what he had done or said to her.
Currently, I do not think he is able to pull the trigger, but him poiting the gun at her due to a whim, or because he feel the need to doesn’t bring him fame.
- Spoiler:
- Yup, he sure did. Or you know, he could have left her there, walking away coldly..."It's your problem... it has nothing to do with me." or dragged her through the dirt.... or shot her right there since you think he wants to kill her. Is this supposed to be a bad thing...? He can hold her closer this way, plus honestly, that's how children are held. I find it quite uncomfortable to be carrying around a kid bridal style. It certainly would be easier to carry an unconcious person over your shoulder, and more efficient. And actually there's no such thing as "potato sac style" whatever that is... it's actually called "Firefighter Carry" and here is the definition for it : This technique is for carrying a victim longer distances.
It is very difficult to get the person up to this position
from the ground. Getting the victim into position
requires a very strong rescuer or an assistant.
just incase you think i made this up, here is the link i got it from http://www.cert-la.com/liftcarry/Liftcarry.pdf And oh look, they agree with me that the "bridal style" is used for children. But it's also used for lighter people... maybe Zero thinks yuuki is not light? lol
So now yuuki is fat/weight a lot and he needed that style to carry her. And I guess Maria is light since he carried her „bridal style”.
However, even if yuuki weight a lot, zero had no problem to carry with his free hand another vampire, Aidou. Since Aidou was carried that way, does this mean he’s lighter than yuuki?
- Spoiler:
- Did you see yuuki wince in pain? She would have shown if it hurt, so obviously he wasn't being as forceful as you think... she just stared at him with no reaction http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/38 And he could tell that she needed blood since she hadn't in awhile.... well obviously, because Kaname left, and he also said before that he doesn't want her eating blood tablets. So... basically he wants her to starve. Zero cares about her and offered his blood. Even Yuuki did the same thing to him in the beginning, he would say he didn't want it and push her away...but she still made her do it. So I say that gives him rights to do it atleast once....
From the scans you can see that zero dragged her to the woods and flung her violently into a tree. Yuuki not complaing, or not crying doesn’t mean is right for a man to do this to a woman. Zero had the option to not flung her into a tree, however he did it.
About kaname not wanting yuuki to take blood tablets: this happened in chapter 51. Yuuki was hungry and kaname wasn’t home. Aidou advice her to take some tables while she’s waiting for kaname.
Kaname came home in that moment and said to aidou to not give her those tablets. Yuuki didn’t need those tablets since kaname came home and he could provide her blood.
- Spoiler:
- ohh haha are you talking about how when yuuki said zero was protecting him? That was cute. I enjoyed that scene. Because Yuuki was spot on and it annoyed him xD That's why he pointed his gun lol. Not like he would actually kill her over such a silly thing, but it embarrassed him lol Then Sara came along and he put his gun down... which people assume means she stopped him from shooting yuuki xD Obviously, if he was really in an intent-to-kill mood, then he would have shot her right away, or pointed his gun and take his anger out on sara for interrupting. but instead he just left afterwards.
Yuuki protect zero at the begging of the chapter, when she thought the hunters want to do something to zero.
http://1.1.1.3/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.06.jpg
Zero points his gun at yuuki, for the third time, at the end of the chapter.
According to s2scans:
Yuuki: Dissapearance of all purebloods you actually didn’t think of that. Zero is much more gentle compared to others. So your heart was not hurt by it.
And then zero point his gun at her due to nothing.
http://1.1.1.1/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.36.jpg
http://1.1.1.2/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.37.jpg
- Spoiler:
- Yuuki's a wimp... she's not used to pain because she's been pampered by so many people. Zero didn't want her to go to Kaname...for once, he held her back from him. So what if it caused yuuki a little bit of pain? It should make her realize he really didn't want her to go to him. Are you saying she's not allowed to experience any pain at all? Poor princess yuuki... she got her arm gripped by someone who cares about her. And was also stopped her from going to Kaname's fake stand in because he was too afraid to show up in person...oh wait, sara was more important, the real one was already there with her unless that's a fake too.
What are you saying? While yuuki was with kaname, he should have make her used with pain, so for the moment zero grab her to not be a wimp?
And yes, I am saying yuuki shouldn’t experience physical pain. If zero would have cared for her he wouldn’t have used too much strenght to stop her.
- Spoiler:
- Actually his original plan was to kill all the purebloods... yuuki came after.
Kaname want to accomplish his original plan for yuuki - To built a future where she can live without fear.
Nina gave you a detail reply before - you're free to read it.
- Spoiler:
- Kaname didn't even say that Ichiru killed a pureblood...? He said that he WANTED both the twins to become powerful hunters that would kill all the purebloods.( for him, since his plan is to get rid of all the purebloods)
How you said he wanted for the twins to become powerful hunters that would kill purebloods. Correct me if I am wrong, but twins doesn’t involve two persons? So, kaname wanted both of them to become powerful hunters who would kill purebloods, not only zero.
Beside, ichiru couldn’t be a hunter due o what happened in his mother womb, when zero took a part of ichiru life. Even zero’s parents said that ichiru would never be a hunter.
At the age of 12 zero was able to sense vampires, ichiru wasn’t.
- Spoiler:
- No, cuz Kaname's already taking care of that. And all the hunters are letting him.(well except Kaien) xP
And a person who agree with kaname plan to kill pureblood is zero too. In one of chapters he said to kaien that kaname is doing something he doesn’t intend to stop.
http://1.1.1.5/bmi/m.mhcdn.net/store/manga/84/15-075.0/compressed/n75.03.jpg
Hunters are known to hate purebloods – the only ones who can turn humans into vampires – and they have no reason to stop kaname to do something they wish to.
- Spoiler:
- sorry, the whole shizuka thing is confusing...it's been awhile since that was brought up. So... the scene in volume 5 where shizuka said to ichiru " I'm satisfied ichiru, I've destroyed my nemesis, the Kiryuu's" are you saying that didn't happen, when it was clearly shown? Obviously SOMEONE told her that the kiryuu's killed her lover, or did SOMETHING if not that... but that's what Shizuka told ichiru, so why would she be lying...? Sometime after her release she DID have a reason to kill the kiryuu's or Ichiru wouldn't have said " You've finally had your revenge"
In the scene you have showed shizuka is not lying, and I never said shizuka is lying. However, I say that in the last chapter kaname is lying.
Words sustain by bonus story: The scarlet cherry blossom’s scattered only, volume 8
Shizuka – in maria’s body – to ichiru: He came with me when I propose we ran away together…but after that…what was waiting for him was…(means his death)
When shizuka was released from the cage, she hadn’t ran alone, she ran away together with her lover, thus means her lover was ALIVE.
Kaname release her under the motive for her to take revenge on zero’s parents. The problem with kaname words is that in the moment he freed her, shizuka had no reason to go after zero’s parents to kill them because her lover was ALIVE.
What happened after her release is not kaname responsibility.
- Spoiler:
- It's not false, because she said herself that the kiryuu's killed her lover. WE find out later it's because "someone" put his name on the execution list. Who could that "someone" have been I wonder....? The person trying to manipulate the kiryuu's possibly...? For awhile I thought it was Rido who was behind it, but after Kaname saying that he's the one who let shizuka out of her cage.... it makes it that much more confusing and gives me more to think about...
The person who put shizuka’s lover on hunters list is the council at rido orders. This is proved by manga
>>>kaname chapter 19
We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka - refference to rido - and continued in chapter 20
I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.
>>>Maria chapter 26
There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.
>>>Ichiru chapter 40
I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.
All these quotes, as a whole show rido as the real culprit.
And fanbook
and you can see better in this one
In fanbook hino reveal information about characters she had created, and is futile for her to promote false information about her own story.
- Spoiler:
- Of course, Kaname doesn't trust her enough to be an accomplice of his, but he does trust Kain and Ruka. I would be hurt if i were his lover....xP I've seen before stories where there are "partners in crime" who are lovers, and it works beautifully because they know each other so well and can work together wonderfully. Kaname's not strengthening his relationship with Yuuki any by leaving her behind....she could be helping him if he vaules his goal so greatly. Unless he thinks that she won't agree with with goal...?
Is not about kaname not trusting yuuki. Is about he wanting to keep her away from danger. However, kaname was aware that she would take some decisions while they are parted and he even advice her to not hesitate.
Beside, we don’t know kaname plan, and we still don’t know why he decided to take all these measures, thus we still don’t know if yuuki would have or not agree with him.
- Spoiler:
- True, Kaien's a wimp, he needs to get more into action. He does when the time calls for it, but maybe he justs trusts that yuuki can handle the situation at the school....? And he did try to stop Kaname once, so that is trying. There's an entire association of vampire hunters whose job it is to control the vampires.... you could say that they have been lazy too for that matter. Kaito, Yagari, several others...what are they doing? Sitting back and letting Kaname do whatever he wants because they don't care if the purebloods are gone. That's not their job to decide that...
Hunters support kaname in his doing, because if purebloods are gone, less humans turned into vampires. Hunters nature is to loath vampires, and hunt them. Kaname killing purebloods is like Heaven to them.
But since we’re talking about hunters, let’s talk about zero. Zero knows pretty well that sara’s tablets caused chaos in cross academy, and his role as a hunter was to take care of the situation or at least report it to hunters president. However, when he was asked by kaien if he knows who spread the tablets, zero covered sara answering NO.
nina- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 2831
Join date : 2010-05-17
Location : My world lalala Kanameland <3
Humor : Black sarcasm
@Kudos aya-chan!!! Very well documented dear
My dear fellow-shippers … after an exhausting day and may I say really discouraging regarding the condition of the VK fandom right now … the only that I have the stamina to say is a BIG thank you for your kind words and support. I’m really touched.
And on my turn I will co-sign with both hands what many of you have said above that spreading love is much much more powerful than spreading messages of hatred.
So let's spread our love
Very well documented dear **************
My dear fellow-shippers … after an exhausting day and may I say really discouraging regarding the condition of the VK fandom right now … the only that I have the stamina to say is a BIG thank you for your kind words and support.
I’m really touched.And on my turn I will co-sign with both hands what many of you have said above that spreading love is much much more powerful than spreading messages of hatred.
So let's spread our love
Shoujo-Zo18- Vampire Noble Class
- Posts : 347
Join date : 2011-06-05
Aya-chan , please don't get mad, but the i'm tired of the long posts, I would like to focus on one issue at a time if possible, please understand. I'd like to discuss, not argue, about a specific point. I am honestly confused about the Shizuka situation. Everyone keeps saying that her lover was alive when she escaped.... but this is the first i'm hearing of it just recently. Like did Kaname say it or something...? Cuz it wasn't brought up until after the recent chapter. I have the fanbook too, so I feel foolish for forgetting that...but if that timeline is correct - Over Four Years Ago - Rido ordered the council to kill her lover, and the Kiryuu's hunt him. and then Four Years ago - She takes her revenge on the Kiryuu's. ( now this is not a direct quote, just paraphrasing.) If that's true, then that is proof that her lover was killed before she killed the Kiryuu's though it's not stated as before she left the prison... But still, Isn't it assumed that when she is let out of prison she goes straight to kill the kiryuu's when she hears they killed her lover?
juliet- Vampire Knight
- Posts : 5039
Join date : 2010-05-05
Location : Deep, deep forest
Humor : Anytime...
Everyone keeps saying that her lover was alive when she escaped.... but this is the first i'm hearing of it just recently. Like did Kaname say it or something...?
I am sure that Aya shall explain that part to you...but this part of Hino is like a mental challenge and we've discovered it! Read what you have and you shall see it too, the open-wide window that shouts of Kaname's innocent that Hino leaves there for all of us to discover...Aya made that clear...and Zero perhaps shall see it too... because Hino has set the background so well that it was very easy for that lie to be caught...so check again...
)
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