Zero or Kaname?

First topic message reminder :

Which one do you like most for Yuuki?

That would be nice.. *cough* *cough* But yes, I am waiting to see what he will do, I am really excited right now. The complications between each character is really making the story interesting!

Aquasixio wrote:I don't know if I'd call Yuuki childish; personally I think that's going a tad bit far. I think she's naive in the sense that she wants to make Kaname happy no matter what and sometimes makes a silly move here or there in the process. Of course, out of personal preference, I believe she is more suited for Zero. As stated before, Kaname is too mature for her and I think he has agendas that he doesn't tell Yuuki because he thinks she can't handle them (which immediately produces a trust issue right THERE) and might want to help, but that's just what I think. I could be totally wrong I don't doubt there's love between the two, I just wonder what KIND of love. I've always felt that Zero and Yuuki shared things on a more personal level more than she did with Kaname, but that's just how I interpreted the manga when I read it.

All we can really do is hope it turns out the way each of us want it to in the end

I want to comment only for the bolded part:

The same naive yuuki feeded zero countless time in her attempt to stop him falling to level E. How come her naivity is good when is about zero, but not when is involved kaname?

yuuki is in love with kaname, and is normal to make the person you love happy. Period!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Your right, and overall I feel as though it is wrong for Kaname to just use zero like this and now he is coming back and saying things that are obviously tearing Zero apart. I have no clue what Kaname's intentions are but things are starting to get weird.

Well yes, initially it is wrong to "use" anybody... But Zero eventually had a reason to make Rido his enemy as well, as we saw in the chapters where they fought... what was it 54 or around there....Zero went as far as to tell yuuki not to steal his prey.... he was set on hunting him...I don't think he'd be that devoted just for the sake of Kaname...that'd be kind of creepy o.O Zero had a reason to hate and hunt Rido for several reasons, 1. He gave Ichiru the fatal wound that led to his death 2. He was the biggest danger to Yuuki, whom he cares for deeply, 3. He was a danger to all the students at Cross Academy ( It is Zero's duty as a prefect to protect the humans, plus it's in his morals) which leads us to... 4. Zero...hates...purebloods. This being an actual evil pureblood who he has reason to kill without regret, of course he wouldn't pass that chance up.

The part about Kaname coming back and saying things that are tearing Zero apart... yea, you've got a point, what are his reasons behind intentionally aggravating Zero? Since the part about releasing Shizuka to take revenge on the Kiryuu's is a lie ( since shizuka's lover wasn't killed until after she was already released from prison) then it was obviously meant to rile zero up more since Kaname could see his angry state. One could say he maybe wanted to drive Yuuki and Zero closer again because he's trying to drive Yuuki away to protect her...that's the theory going around. But I say maybe he is trying to drive them together....but only because he knows he could die or plans on sacrificing himself, and doesn't want Yuuki left without someone to protect her. This could be his motives...

i wamt kaname

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Your right, and overall I feel as though it is wrong for Kaname to just use zero like this and now he is coming back and saying things that are obviously tearing Zero apart. I have no clue what Kaname's intentions are but things are starting to get weird.

Well yes, initially it is wrong to "use" anybody... But Zero eventually had a reason to make Rido his enemy as well, as we saw in the chapters where they fought... what was it 54 or around there....Zero went as far as to tell yuuki not to steal his prey.... he was set on hunting him...I don't think he'd be that devoted just for the sake of Kaname...that'd be kind of creepy o.O Zero had a reason to hate and hunt Rido for several reasons, 1. He gave Ichiru the fatal wound that led to his death 2. He was the biggest danger to Yuuki, whom he cares for deeply, 3. He was a danger to all the students at Cross Academy ( It is Zero's duty as a prefect to protect the humans, plus it's in his morals) which leads us to... 4. Zero...hates...purebloods. This being an actual evil pureblood who he has reason to kill without regret, of course he wouldn't pass that chance up.

The part about Kaname coming back and saying things that are tearing Zero apart... yea, you've got a point, what are his reasons behind intentionally aggravating Zero? Since the part about releasing Shizuka to take revenge on the Kiryuu's is a lie ( since shizuka's lover wasn't killed until after she was already released from prison) then it was obviously meant to rile zero up more since Kaname could see his angry state. One could say he maybe wanted to drive Yuuki and Zero closer again because he's trying to drive Yuuki away to protect her...that's the theory going around. But I say maybe he is trying to drive them together....but only because he knows he could die or plans on sacrificing himself, and doesn't want Yuuki left without someone to protect her. This could be his motives...

Yeah, like i have said in many other posts, Kaname always has a reason behind every move he makes. Now it may not be a move that we like, but from what we have seen Kaname is pretty smart and is really good when it comes to decision making.

Kaname. i love Zero and i can't believe i said that... but i think Zero would be better off without her. He's lost alot im not sure if he can take anymore

Even though Kaname has suffered longer, Zero suffered MORE by losing more...He lost his Mother and Father, his brother Ichiru (having to feel the loss of thinking he was dead) Seeing Ichiru again and then having to DEVOUR his own brother...He didn't have a choice...IMAGINE DOING THAT...

And the on top of all that, becoming a vampire, losing your sanity, SLOWLY falling to Level E...Suffering both physical and emotional pain PLUS Yuki's love for Kaname and then suffering AGAIN as Yuki leaves him....

And he thought that no matter what, Yuki would choose Kaname...Zero loved Yuki but never said so because he was afraid of being rejected and hurt again...

Zero discovered the one he loved was a Pureblood...And Kaname being mean to Zero.....The dude has been through enough....Don't you think he needs the one he loves to make his life whole?

SassyKnight wrote:Even though Kaname has suffered longer, Zero suffered MORE by losing more

Sorry if this reply sounds harsh, but its one of my red zones. This isn't directed at you sassy, as i have seen others make this point before and am addressing the issue as a whole.

Seriously how can any of us compare two peoples suffering? Only if we have been through what both of them have been through, could we possibly compare, and even then its hard. Pain is pain. Doesnt matter if its a little thing or a huge thing it hurts like hell. Pain is individual to each person, we get effect different ways. We all deal with pain differently, perosnally to me those who think they can compare pain i feel understand it little. Who are we to judge what someone went through was more painful then another? Thats being ignorant of the others pain and what they have been through. Both guys have been through alot. Both have been through alot of pain. Both have lost so much! BOTH!

Don't you think he needs the one he loves to make his life whole?

And this question could be used for any one of the boys. But being with someone should be about love, not on who has been through the most pain cos that just implies pity in the end. Yuuki will be with the one she loves the most, otherwise i'll be more then disappointed in her but the whole story. To me both guys deserve happiness and being with the girl they love, but at the end of the day she can only be with one or none. It's sad and heartbreaking for the guy who is not with her at the end, but thats how the story is.

SassyKnight wrote:
Even though Kaname has suffered longer, Zero suffered MORE by losing more

Here I have to agree with Bloodredhead .

As Bloodredhead said ; many Zekis use this as a reason to justify a Zeki ending the following : " Zero had suffered the most . He deserved Yuuki more than Kaname . " This is fine as opinion . But has no real basis if the plot is analyzed as a whole .

Both guys have suffered a lot . As you said , Zero lost a ton of people in his life .

But Kaname had suffered his share too . He was completely alone for an unknown time after he was born as pureblood vampire 10,000 years ago . Even when he lived with humans as a town's lord for apparently 3 human generations . He was never trully accepted by his vassals as one of their own . He even was thrown outside as having the plague after helping those same humans so much . When at last he found another person to consider loving as his mate . She sacrificed herself to create the vampire hunters / anti - vampire weapons . So he became alone again . There is this long period of time we don't know practically nothing ( the time he was Vampire King ) . But maybe the humans he wanted to protect never could be his true friends . Nor most of vampire society accepted him as friend either . So he could be very lonely seated in a high throne . Maybe only having at his side the woman that became the original Vampire Queen . Anyway , Kaname did had some event in the past that made him dispair so much he decided to slumber forever .

When he reawaken in the present . The first thing he had to notice is he was responsable for his baby descendant / great - grandson death . ( He didn't kill the baby ; but ate it . Grim enough . ) He discovered Rido ruining his plans to keep forever slumbering . He had to fear he would ate all the remain family that were around him if he allowed himself to keep his growth body . So he decided to return to a baby body without memories . When that happened ; he was happy for a while . He was a pampered baby pureblood baby / kid . Loved by his foster parents as their own . Got a cute baby sister who he loved so much . But he recovered his memories . Then he lost again a ton . In a night , he lost the "parents " he loved . Had to discover he could not kill the man he wanted to . That his cute " sister " became an human and forgot everything about him . Even than a vampire was almost tried to kill her and that could be his fault because he left her for some minutes . That he had to watch that girl from afar . Not telling her about their past together for a 10 year period . Nor expressing his love for her . Deprived from the blood he wanted . Only used blood tablets for most of the next 10 years . Except of 2 times the story told . The Ruka incident and the human offered as sacrifice for him to turn vampire . Knowing he promise to return Yuuki to human when her spell started to fade . So he had not much hope for Yuuki to be with him in the future . Kaname became a Vampire Senate Ward . Under the care of Asato . Not having friends nor confidents , except for Takuma for a long time . Having to hide his feelings from the rest of Vampire Society as expected from a pureblood vampire .

Kaname reasosn to suffer probably are more than the ones exposed here . . But at least for the things I had mentioned . They made Kaname suffering at least similar to Zero proportionally . I found a little unfair to say Zero deserves Yuuki because he had suffer the most . When both guys have suffer a lot .

mariangie wrote:

SassyKnight wrote:
Even though Kaname has suffered longer, Zero suffered MORE by losing more

Here I have to agree with Bloodredhead .

As Bloodredhead said ; many Zekis use this as a reason to justify a Zeki ending the following : " Zero had suffered the most . He deserved Yuuki more than Kaname . " This is fine as opinion . But has no real basis if the plot is analyzed as a whole .

Both guys have suffered a lot . As you said , Zero lost a ton of people in his life .

But Kaname had suffered his share too .

hehe...I've seen Yume fans make this argument too. But I agree...nobody gives their love based on who of the two needs it more (or they shouldn't, lol)...its just simply, who do you love more.

Giving because a person needs it....is charity/pity...and not love.

@mariangie: Thanks and yes Kaname's been through alot too! And your right its unfair to say that when both have been through alot.

@caela: Exactly! It should be about love!

Note: Just to clarify i wasn't making my post at all zeki's i was speaking in general, as i know its been said other times, but can't remeber where or by whom.

Just read chapter 80.... Aha! I knew it... x3 Zero is only siding with Sara because they share a common enemy... Kaname. This was obvious from the start but Sara and Zero confirmed it with words ^^ I'm still on Zero's side... and I hope they do stop Kaname ( though for Zero he wants revenge >:3 ) ; Sara, Zero, & Yuuki. ( With Ichijou, Shiki, & Sara's harem on their side too perhaps? I think we have the makings for a real battle between teams x3) I wonder who would be on Kaname's side.... Ruka, Akatsuki & Seiren?

Ooooh Whats this I sense? An epic battle between two sides????

Black: Kaname, Akatski, Ruka, Seiren.

White: Yuki, Zero, Sara, Shiki, Rima, Aidou, perhaps Takuma?

Of course, Black will be outnumbered, but Kaname is strong...

SassyKnight wrote:Ooooh Whats this I sense? An epic battle between two sides????

Black: Kaname, Akatski, Ruka, Seiren.

White: Yuki, Zero, Sara, Shiki, Rima, Aidou, perhaps Takuma?

Of course, Black will be outnumbered, but Kaname is strong...

Haha yes, they are out-numbered...but maybe Akatsuki catches everyone on fire...that pyromaniac ( he keeps putting up firewalls to avoid Aidou x3) Or... Kaname could simply turn everyone to dust like he did the senate...but that would be no fun... >.> Then again he was actually controlling them to kill themselves... ( when he said once that he didn't like controlling others...contradictory o.O) and Sara & Yuuki are purebloods so it wouldn't work on them anyways... Hey don't forget Sara's Harem...they're on her side too lol

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:

SassyKnight wrote:Ooooh Whats this I sense? An epic battle between two sides????

Black: Kaname, Akatski, Ruka, Seiren.

White: Yuki, Zero, Sara, Shiki, Rima, Aidou, perhaps Takuma?

Of course, Black will be outnumbered, but Kaname is strong...

Haha yes, they are out-numbered...but maybe Akatsuki catches everyone on fire...that pyromaniac ( he keeps putting up firewalls to avoid Aidou x3) Or... Kaname could simply turn everyone to dust like he did the senate...but that would be no fun... >.> Then again he was actually controlling them to kill themselves... ( when he said once that he didn't like controlling others...contradictory o.O) and Sara & Yuuki are purebloods so it wouldn't work on them anyways... Hey don't forget Sara's Harem...they're on her side too lol

out-numbered maybe but we know from history that the size of the armed forces isn´t always decisive!
Well we have on the
black side one pureblood: Kaname
and on the white side: Yuuki and Sara...Sara maybe strong but she isn´t as old and experienced as Kaname...Yuuki has Artemis but she said herself that she is like a todder in her vampire life, she became stronger we could see that when she got those wings but I don´t think that she would be a match for Kaname (maybe is she undresses he will fall for her *sorry pervy mind*)

Furthermore who is the leader of the white side, Sara? I don´t think that there won´t be any rivalry! I mean Zero supports Yuuki now but do you see him following Sara´s movements and orders? And don´t you think that Yuuki´s feelings might be in the way...I think that she doesn´t want anyone to be hurt and that she would try to protect them (why does it remind me of Elena from VD?^^) I don´t think that she would want Zero to be in a dangerous situation...and I can´t believe that she will be able to kill Kaname herself...you can´t change your feelings so fast...

Now to Shiki and Rima...they are strong and hot, no doubt about that, but I don´t see them fighting for Sara, they´ll try to protect Takuma and they won´t fight...(but it would be interesting to see Kaname vs Shiki (family fight^^))

Aidou: has to fight against his cousin Akatsuki, Aidou may have the ice-ability but he is not cold-hearted, he cares for others and I think that he cares for his cousin too (Akatsuki is a little bit colder in my eyes but I don´t think that he will try to hurt Aidou, I mean he run away from a fight with him) so undecided here

Sara´s harem: Sorry i don´t see them fighting, they will only scream and positionate themselves in front of Sara...they could die easily

Takuma and Ruka...Takuma is on Sara´s side we know that now, if Kaname wants to kill Sara he has to kill Takuma at first (at Takuma knows alot about him...unfortunately he won´t stay a chance against kaname...Ruka on Kaname´s side, will she stay there or will she distance herself from the scene? I don´t really know

Seiren: We don´t have a lot of information about her but I think that she has a lot of abilities when she is fighting next to Kaname...

my result: I think it is undecided (but there are some factors who aren´t in my argumentation yet: f.e. kaname´s hand, the scene of action, Seiren´s ability and Zero´s feelings for Yuuki) maybe someone can think about that and coment my post

YuMe+ZeKi<3 wrote:Ooooh Whats this I sense? An epic battle between two sides????

Black: Kaname, Akatski, Ruka, Seiren.

White: Yuki, Zero, Sara, Shiki, Rima, Aidou, perhaps Takuma?

Of course, Black will be outnumbered, but Kaname is strong...

Well...
1-Kaname would not kill Yuuki,even if she's on the white side of the chess board.
2-I think Zero only sided with Sara to obey Yuuki and Kill Kaname.
3-Akatsuki would attack Aidou and obey Kaname only to stay with Ruka.
4-And Ruka loves Kaname so she doesn't plan to side with Sara
5-Takuma love's Sara so he would probally attack Kaname!
What end could we get from this?
I only pray that Kaname lives forever with Yuuki!
They love each other(even now Yuuki thinks more about Kaname than Zero...anyway..Hino would be a devil if she killed Kaname right?)

LOL Yes 0.0 I really hope that everyone lives happily in the end..(Which probably wont happen because its a "Tragic Love Story"

YuMe+ZeKi<3 wrote:LOL Yes 0.0 I really hope that everyone lives happily in the end..(Which probably wont happen because its a "Tragic Love Story"

Tragic Love Story

No...It can't be...You're saying that it's possible for Kaname to die at the end?
that's impossible...if Hino would do that i would hate her forever!

I didn't that Kaname would die, Lilly, I'm just stating what Hino said herself in Volume 1

"Vampire Knight os my first series with a serious twist. Considering that my previous Meru Puri had "Cute and Lovely" as it's theme, this time it's "Fresh Blood" Blood covered school LOVE. The "LOVE" portion becomes "If you want to hurry, go slow..."

YuMe+ZeKi<3 wrote:I didn't that Kaname would die, Lilly, I'm just stating what Hino said herself in Volume 1

"Vampire Knight os my first series with a serious twist. Considering that my previous Meru Puri had "Cute and Lovely" as it's theme, this time it's "Fresh Blood" Blood covered school LOVE. The "LOVE" portion becomes "If you want to hurry, go slow..."

Thanks for the explanation...I'll go with my assumptions as well..
]It's hard to think what Hino-sensei's plans to do about the plot and the story...her thinking it's quite gloomy right now so i'lljustgo with the flow of Yume fans and think that everything is gonna be alright!

lililovelilica wrote: Thanks for the explanation...I'll go with my assumptions as well..
]It's hard to think what Hino-sensei's plans to do about the plot and the story...her thinking it's quite gloomy right now so i'lljustgo with the flow of Yume fans and think that everything is gonna be alright!

Smart choice (^_~)

Well in order to avoid further misleading let me put the whole portion of what Hino had said in that side-note:

Vampire Knight is my first series with a serious twist. Considering that my previous MeruPuri had “cute and lovely as its them, this time it’s “fresh blood, Blood-covered school LOVE. They are quite different. (The “LOVE” portion becomes “If you want to hurry, go slow)

As you can see in the previous passage the phrase “They are quite different” is cut off … I’m stressing this little phrase because it shows clearer that Hino is comparing her two series > her old one MeruPuri with her latest Vampire Knight.
Thus comparing her two works; Vampire Knight is a serious twist considering her previous work(s) because MeruPuri it is a light love comedy whereas Vampire Knight it’s indeed dark and tragic love story covered in blood.

As the author says; the Vampire Knight was her first series in this serious mode … as far as I know all her previous works were comedies << and this was exactly the main theme that Hino was trying to explain to her readers (who knew her previous style) with the first side-note in her first volume.

And if someone reads the whole side-note this is more than obvious.

How it starts her explanation/introduction of Vampire Knight (I’ll quote the whole side-note)>>

Spoiler:

As I said above Hino is trying to convey how and why Vampire Knight is so different from her previous works … a major twist ^^ and personally – despite the ominous dark aura – I’m keeping as well this phrase >> But in the end the same person is drawing them: “The roots of all works are the same” ^^

But I think this theme is because despite the efforts , why; the label “tragic” should apply only to Kaname? Furthermore I doubt if Hino would have revealed her ending (>tragic love) from her very first volume.

Anyway …

However since we started with the side-notes I’ll quote what Hino sensei has written (mostly) about Kaname and Zero to return on topic ^^

Hino-sensei wrote: I first completed the character designs for Yuuki then for Hanabusa Aido. (Hanabusa had his name and that silly nickname decided then too.)

Then Kaname was done. Kaname’s designs were so good, I thought Zero might be overshadowed…!!
Then Zero’s designs were done. Kaname looks rather professional so I thought I’d make Zero like an ordinary person!! The result was this: the ordinary guy turned out like a juvenile delinquent…

Regarding the names, Yuuki Cross and Kaname Kuran~ those two were decided smoothly. And Kaname’s name was too good (smile), so I thought I had to do something about Zero’s name (he had a different name at this point), or else Kaname would overshadow Zero!! (smile;;).
I tried very hard to think of a name that sounded strong… I thought and I thought until was about to start drawing. Then I found the name Zero. Everyone agreed to it right away (well the decision was between my editor and me). I had the Kanji for zero read in katakana. I had some reservations, but in my head a “GO!” sign was shining…

Regarding the characters’ personalities, these were also fixed with Yuuki first, then Kaname…
With Zero my editor and I worried and worried and made a big fuss, thinking, “if something isn’t done, Kaname will overshadow Zero…!!!” (Kaname-sama you’re too scary. Please don’t eat Zero any more than this…)

So Zero made me worry a lot, but because I tried very hard, he didn’t turn out to be a weakling. It was good. Really.

Since Yuuki is the heroine, I had her set from the beginning. But she still has many blanks to fill in, so I hoping (like an indulgent parent) that by filling in those blanks, she’ll mature.
Kaname…is filled as if there are no blanks left. Probably… (Probably?;)

Vol.1 is like a prologue of sorts, so the Night Class students, including Kaname, haven’t really started to move yet (the Headmaster too…). But please look forward to it.

Everyone can draw its own conclusions ^^

Hino-sensei wrote:
I first completed the character designs for Yuuki then for Hanabusa Aido. (Hanabusa had his name and that silly nickname decided then too.)

Then Kaname was done. Kaname’s designs were so good, I thought Zero might be overshadowed…!!
Then Zero’s designs were done. Kaname looks rather professional so I thought I’d make Zero like an ordinary person!! The result was this: the ordinary guy turned out like a juvenile delinquent…

Regarding the names, Yuuki Cross and Kaname Kuran~ those two were decided smoothly. And Kaname’s name was too good (smile), so I thought I had to do something about Zero’s name (he had a different name at this point), or else Kaname would overshadow Zero!! (smile;;).
I tried very hard to think of a name that sounded strong… I thought and I thought until was about to start drawing. Then I found the name Zero. Everyone agreed to it right away (well the decision was between my editor and me). I had the Kanji for zero read in katakana. I had some reservations, but in my head a “GO!” sign was shining…

Regarding the characters’ personalities, these were also fixed with Yuuki first, then Kaname…
With Zero my editor and I worried and worried and made a big fuss, thinking, “if something isn’t done, Kaname will overshadow Zero…!!!” (Kaname-sama you’re too scary. Please don’t eat Zero any more than this…)

So Zero made me worry a lot, but because I tried very hard, he didn’t turn out to be a weakling. It was good. Really.

Since Yuuki is the heroine, I had her set from the beginning. But she still has many blanks to fill in, so I hoping (like an indulgent parent) that by filling in those blanks, she’ll mature.
Kaname…is filled as if there are no blanks left. Probably… (Probably?;)

Vol.1 is like a prologue of sorts, so the Night Class students, including Kaname, haven’t really started to move yet (the Headmaster too…). But please look forward to it.

Thanks nina
Now i understand that Kaname have always outstanded Zero...even from the beggining...He's really a God!