Kanames and Ridos talk cap. 60

RIDO: What were you waiting for as you laid inside this coffin?
KANAME: I’m not waiting for anything.
RIDO: No, indeed. But you were waiting for something then, weren’t you? There are great contradictions within you, great contradictions. And those contradictions are torturing you. This is why you came to this room. You want to watch protectively over your little bird as she spreads her wings and learns to fly, but you also want to tear off the wings from that same beloved little bird. I wonder where the contradictions in you come from. What you were eagerly waiting for as you laid in this coffin will never return, am I right? The truth is that you don’t even have the faintest bit of hope left, isn’t it? Contradiction as well as despair, those are the two things you are made of and you will be eternally that way.
KANAME: You are truly a good “mirror”.
(cap. 60)

When I first read this cap. I was really confused, and I am still confused!

1. What were Kaname waiting for?
Was he waiting for Yuki to be born? We know he met her in the past when she named Artemis, but was that the only time they met in the past? When Kaname showed Yuki his memories he told her that he recognized her eyes, would he recognized her eyes if they only had met for like 2 minutes? Doesnt seem likely...

2. When Rido asked what Kaname were waiting for Kaname anwered him that he isnt waiting for anything (anymore?). What does this mean? I really think this conversation is important and that Hino is giving us some clues. I dont think he was trying to kill himsef when he was in that coffin, but what else could he be waiting for? It is something he will never have... He was waiting eagerly... And it is something that will never RETURN (according to Rido). Rido understand Kaname very well, so maybe there is some part of Kaname that is like Rido?

3. The contradictons. Well I think some of the contradictions come from the fact that the hooded lady (Hino should give us her name sometime soon) went and sacrificed herself for something that Kaname later thought was a bad idea (before Kaname showed Yuki his memories he said that sometimes even how hard you try it comes down to nothing, maybe he is reffering to the hooded lady or maybe himself). I think that this made him a little paranoid and overprotective (poor Yuki). When Yuki was little and stuck in the basement Kaname wanted her to live in the outside world. But that was before he regained his memories. But I dont think the contradiction just come from the hooded lady, did something else happen in te past?

4. I have no clues about the despair. Was it because he hadnt told Yuki that he was her ancestor?

5. Kaname mentioned that Rido was a good mirrior (that is why I think they have some things in commen, but what is Kaname reffering to?) There has been a lot of mirrors, keys and blue feathers that we dont really understand and that is why I reacted when Kaname said something about a mirror. I am still trying to find some clues of why Kaname would find a boken mirror so interesting (I hope it is a better reason than its because Yuki stepped on it).

We have to remember that Hino decided how the manga would end from the beginning. So there can be clues EVERYWHERE. Haha, sorry but I hate secrets and mysteries (I have to figure them out)... So I have been looking for clues, and I have read the manga from the beginning some times know... And I do really think this conversation is important so PLEASE comment (this is my first post Ive written. Hope I did this right...).

What do you guys think about this heart to heart talk between Rido and Kaname? PLEASE comment because I dont understand more then what I have written here.

this is one of the things that we can't be certain about so for now will only be guess~

Lizz wrote:
1. What were Kaname waiting for?
Was he waiting for Yuki to be born? We know he met her in the past when she named Artemis, but was that the only time they met in the past? When Kaname showed Yuki his memories he told her that he recognized her eyes, would he recognized her eyes if they only had met for like 2 minutes? Doesnt seem likely...

Kaname slept out of despair, never intending to wake up... but there was a tiny part of him that hoped.. perhaps hope for vampires to change, hope for something better to happen when he wakes up, hope to live again in a new world...
I think it's the reason why Kaname chose to sleep rather than to die, he wanted to see something happen...

2. When Rido asked what Kaname were waiting for Kaname anwered him that he isnt waiting for anything (anymore?). What does this mean? I really think this conversation is important and that Hino is giving us some clues. I dont think he was trying to kill himsef when he was in that coffin, but what else could he be waiting for? It is something he will never have... He was waiting eagerly... And it is something that will never RETURN (according to Rido). Rido understand Kaname very well, so maybe there is some part of Kaname that is like Rido?

perhaps the things that will never return are the lives he lost over time, or perhaps its the ideology he envisioned as a king once and was now lost.
the line is cryptic and could mean anything..

3. The contradictons. Well I think some of the contradictions come from the fact that the hooded lady (Hino should give us her name sometime soon) went and sacrificed herself for something that Kaname later thought was a bad idea (before Kaname showed Yuki his memories he said that sometimes even how hard you try it comes down to nothing, maybe he is reffering to the hooded lady or maybe himself). I think that this made him a little paranoid and overprotective (poor Yuki). When Yuki was little and stuck in the basement Kaname wanted her to live in the outside world. But that was before he regained his memories. But I dont think the contradiction just come from the hooded lady, did something else happen in te past?

his contradictions were about Yuki. He wanted to chain her and keep her for himself, while another part of him wants to let her go and let her be happy.
I think this contradictions also has something to do with the "hooded yuki" in line with yuki's panels or it could even be a flashback of his past wife as well... the one who looks like Yuki

4. I have no clues about the despair. Was it because he hadnt told Yuki that he was her ancestor?

i dont understand?

5. Kaname mentioned that Rido was a good mirrior (that is why I think they have some things in commen, but what is Kaname reffering to?) There has been a lot of mirrors, keys and blue feathers that we dont really understand and that is why I reacted when Kaname said something about a mirror. I am still trying to find some clues of why Kaname would find a boken mirror so interesting (I hope it is a better reason than its because Yuki stepped on it).

true there are lots of mirrors..i can only guess what he means here, there are also other mirrors used in the story but i think what kaname referred to here is metaphorically

i will get back to the rest later..

@ Lizz I think so too … the talk between Kaname and Rido is important and has lots of hidden meanings but as sweetsolace said …

sweetsolace wrote: this is one of the things that we can't be certain about so for now will only be guess~

… and we can only be guess cuz IMO all the answers aren’t yet revealed … ;)

1. He was waiting eagerly something but on the same time he was wishing to turn into ashes? <<< Controversial or cryptic?

2.

Lizz wrote: The contradictons. Well I think some of the contradictions come from the fact that the hooded lady (Hino should give us her name sometime soon) went and sacrificed herself for something that Kaname later thought was a bad idea (before Kaname showed Yuki his memories he said that sometimes even how hard you try it comes down to nothing, maybe he is reffering to the hooded lady or maybe himself). I think that this made him a little paranoid and overprotective (poor Yuki). When Yuki was little and stuck in the basement Kaname wanted her to live in the outside world. But that was before he regained his memories. But I dont think the contradiction just come from the hooded lady, did something else happen in te past?

I don’t think his contradictions were born from hooded-lady’s sacrifice …

First of all I have difficulties to view her sacrifice as meaningless … it wasn’t for a lost cause for the reason that Kaname’s experiments and her sacrifice created the anti-vampires’ weapons which led to the salvation of the human kind. Her sacrifice was a turning point in the history so I can’t describe it, as lost cause and this is one reason that I don’t believe Kaname was referring to the hooded-lady.

And I agree with what sweetsolace said …

sweetsolace wrote: I think this contradictions also has something to do with the "hooded yuki" in line with yuki's panels or it could even be a flashback of his past wife as well... the one who looks like Yuki

For the bold part … you’re wrong on this. When Kaname wanted Yuuki to live in the outside world he had regained his memory already. If you go back and read the scenes with the fight Haruka-Rido and Kaname-Rido you’ll see that Kaname knew pretty well who he actually was. He said to Rido that it was his miscalculation that he (Rido) was born.

Either way his wish for Yuuki, to live free in a safe world, has never change in him; this is his goal!

Neither his protection to Yuuki was paranoid … were her parents paranoid as well? They kept her in the basement all her life … her mother sacrificed her life in order to “disguise” Yuuki’s nature and keep as a secret her existence. They were possessive and paranoid? I don’t think so.
It proved from the turning of the events that they had very good reasons keeping her in the basement. I think is obvious by now that Yuuki’s existence is like a magnet for everyone who would like to dominate the vampire’s race.

Kaname had to keep her existence as a secret for that year in order to have time:
a) To settle things in vampire society
b) To give the necessary time to Yuuki to adjust into her nature. She refused to use her own fangs … she was like a toddler vampire. How could he leave her in that state? Cuz >>>
c) I suspect Kaname knew that after her debut at the ball where her existence and her position in the vampire society would be known, a new circle of conflicts would begin … so he prepared Yuuki for that moment… His last words were … don’t hesitate Yuuki <<< viz I trust you and you are ready to follow your path.

And IMO there are laid his contradictions … he knew that the moment that Yuuki would go out in the world as the princess of the Kurans it would be inevitable for him not to proceed with his original plan …

His inner conflict … keep Yuuki “imprison” only for himself and in order not to proceed with his plan; or let her spread her wings and leave her to proceed with his plan? His action speaks for itself … Kaname will always put Yuuki’s happiness and safety over everything, including himself. All that he wants is to be Yuuki as she is … he knew the path that she would choose and he’ll do everything so this path not to lead to Yuuki’s “sacrifice” …

I have no clues about the despair. Was it because he hadnt told Yuki that he was her ancestor?

Kaname has his “insecurities” and even if he wasn’t responsible for what Rido did with the real Yuuki’s baby-brother, he has his guilt, not only for Rido’s existence but as she told Yuuki for all the sadness in their world cuz despite his efforts and the sacrifices he couldn’t absolve the world from the evilness.

I think his contradictions and despair have their root on this scene …
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-23/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-19604-24/vampire-knight/chapter-52.html

… a scene which hasn’t be explained yet …

We have to remember that Hino decided how the manga would end from the beginning. So there can be clues EVERYWHERE.

Yeup, that’s true. XD

When Rido asked what Kaname were waiting for Kaname anwered him that he isnt waiting for anything (anymore?). What does this mean? I really think this conversation is important and that Hino is giving us some clues. I dont think he was trying to kill himsef when he was in that coffin, but what else could he be waiting for? It is something he will never have... He was waiting eagerly... And it is something that will never RETURN (according to Rido). Rido understand Kaname very well, so maybe there is some part of Kaname that is like Rido?

I think that Rido there speaks out Kaname's darkest thoughts, deepest worries and contradictions. No I do not believe that a part of Kaname is like Rido, but a part of Rido might be like Kaname, since Kaname precedes Rido in time.
I think that Kaname refers to an era, not to a person, an era where the conditions about co-existence where better, far more ideal...then something happened, occurred and that era ceased to exist, Kaname sunk in despair and choose long slumber. Despite that, Rido is taunting him about it. Let's not forget that Kaname had decided to postpone his plan and he had hesitated back there (he says that when he goes to kill the council), so being a slumber there had to be hope that they might change after all, despite the great despair about the conditions that led him in despair (after all hope dies last).

The contradictons. Well I think some of the contradictions come from the fact that the hooded lady (Hino should give us her name sometime soon) went and sacrificed herself for something that Kaname later thought was a bad idea (before Kaname showed Yuki his memories he said that sometimes even how hard you try it comes down to nothing, maybe he is reffering to the hooded lady or maybe himself). I think that this made him a little paranoid and overprotective (poor Yuki). When Yuki was little and stuck in the basement Kaname wanted her to live in the outside world. But that was before he regained his memories. But I dont think the contradiction just come from the hooded lady, did something else happen in the past?

Who knows? All we can say is just theories and we have written so many here. I guess that Kaname should be as paranoid and overprotective as Yuuki’s parents were. So her mother’s idea to make her a human for Yuuki’s own protection and happiness sounds paranoid too?
Since you referred to the present, and you obviously fail to understand Yuuki’s role here, you must see that
1. Other vampires see purebloods (when weak) as prays (as stated by Kaname)
2. Yuuki has the anti-vampire power that made Kurans rulers, if that power falls to the wrong hands then that’s a great danger both for vampires and humans, so that “power” is certainly meant to be protected.
3. Yuuki had not Artemis, Artemis was at the association and Kaname went and get it during his first meeting with the hunters (apparently Yuuki had left Artemis at the school), when they signed the treaty and Yuuki was seen a toddler in her apprehension of vampire society.
4. And even after several steps were made towars her armory with Artemis and her education with Aidou, we see how Touma freely plays here with Yuuki until Zero arrives and we also see here how much Yuuki understands of her role that she goes as a lamb to offer her services to the purebloods (were Kaien comments that she can have anytime her head chopped off).
5. Unfortunately Yuuki’s last name “a Kuran” is a legacy of its own. If Yuuki chooses to follow the way, the path of her ancestors that act on behalf of co-existence, she is at the same time posing her self against the vampires that never wished for a co-existence (as Sara does right now).
Kaname knows all the above and totally understands that his choice is to preserve Yuuki safely inside or to let her follow her path and unleash all of these threats, dangers and also obligations.

I have no clues about the despair. Was it because he hadnt told Yuki that he was her ancestor?

His despair, I think refers to the period that he entered slumber, there we see that Kaname was in total despair because of the condition of the vampire society (he states that to the council, when he goes to kill them). So we see that his despair about the condition of the vampire society has not ceased to exist even to these days. Also I think that Yuuki’s decision to step into action makes his despair even worst at the scene that you described since Kaname knows that if Yuuki walks her path, in order to protect her, he has to walk his own (as he has promised to make this world safer for her before Yuuri changed her).
I do not think that the decision is easy for him, since he is so much afraid of losing her to a lost cause as we heard him stating and also as he seemed to hesitate about his old plan (the one he had deserted when he went to slumber). So for me it’s a despair about the lost past, the decision he is about to take, the danger that Yuuki shall be exposed to and also the plan that no longer affords to postpone since Yuuki will be exposing herself outhere.

But as Nina had said (I liked that sentence) Kaname crushes Rido, thus his contradictions and it is then as all the clues show that he decided to let Yuuki step her own way and he to set out to fulfill his plan and offer a safer world.

Lizz wrote:
I dont think he was trying to kill himsef when he was in that coffin,

hm no Kaname was sleeping so he can't kill or try to kill himself when he was in that coffin

Rido understand Kaname very well, so maybe there is some part of Kaname that is like Rido?

I go for juliet's words here, its not that some part of kaname is like Rido
but a part of Rido might be like Kaname
Kaname came before him so more likely Rido knows the tendency

Well I think some of the contradictions come from the fact that the hooded lady

lol neglected this, no obviously the contradictions showed Yuki's pictures so its about her not the hooded woman

(Hino should give us her name sometime soon) went and sacrificed herself for something that Kaname later thought was a bad idea (before Kaname showed Yuki his memories he said that sometimes even how hard you try it comes down to nothing, maybe he is reffering to the hooded lady or maybe himself).

Kaname didn't expect the hooded woman to sacrifice her life in his place, but I don't think he considered it a bad idea. He just didn't expect it. now that i think about it when kaname said that line about not being able to do anything, perhaps he was not referring to the hooded woman since he doesn't seem that important to her.. she was just a part of his life, i think another woman was more significant to him that changed his life
which is what you said here:

But I dont think the contradiction just come from the hooded lady, did something else happen in te past?

When Yuki was little and stuck in the basement Kaname wanted her to live in the outside world. But that was before he regained his memories.

no actually Kaname already regained his memories when he wanted Yuki to live outside. He looked around 12 at that time. When he still didn't have his memories he looked around 5-8years old and he was much gentle and kind.

4. I have no clues about the despair. Was it because he hadnt told Yuki that he was her ancestor?

no I bet its something more deeper than that

I am still trying to find some clues of why Kaname would find a boken mirror so interesting (I hope it is a better reason than its because Yuki stepped on it).

its not only you. we have lots of theories about the broken mirror

We have to remember that Hino decided how the manga would end from the beginning. So there can be clues EVERYWHERE.

yes of course. not to worry you're not the first to know this

I know I wrote some wrong things here and Im sorry... It was very late and I was tired, I will write things more carefully next time I post a new forum

Lizz wrote:I know I wrote some wrong things here and Im sorry... It was very late and I was tired, I will write things more carefully next time I post a new forum

its ok. the forum exists for this kind of discussion that doesnt make it wrong

sorry if this topic has already been taken...but i wanted to know your opinion from eveyone from this forum...
Kaname decided to conclude his plans...but for what meaning?
and about the contradictions Rido told Kaname had in chapter 60?
They have something about Kaname's secrets...Hino-sensei always give us many hints in the manga...but my mind doesn't work the same way as her so i wanted some help here^^
here are the page i was talking about:
[img][/img]

lililovelilica wrote:sorry if this topic has already been taken...but i wanted to know your opinion from eveyone from this forum...
Kaname decided to conclude his plans...but for what meaning?
and about the contradictions Rido told Kaname had in chapter 60?
They have something about Kaname's secrets...Hino-sensei always give us many hints in the manga...but my mind doesn't work the same way as her so i wanted some help here^^
here are the page i was talking about:
[img][/img]

Well this is my opinion about Kaname's plan:
1-Kaname's plan is to kill all the Pure Bloods because they represented a life-threatening for Yuki and humans.
2-As we know him doubt about his plans (which we do not know, because Kaname has had many plans, Lol, so you can be talking about another.) But I doubt about this, sure was, I thought it might be a peaceful existence into a vampire (rather than all the pure blood), and humans, and most of all a protective environment for Yuki. But after the attack of Thoma to Yuki, he saw that it was impossible to secure the existence and decided to tell half of its past to Yuki and put his plan into operation and more even with the rumors that Sarah was doing something that worried the other vampires. So Kaname said "I'll destroy the root of these rumors" That is going to solve the problem by killing all the Pure Blood (sara). So he gave up his plans since there...


And so the contradictions:
1-The contradictions are there say that Kaname wants to yuki by free, but at the same time, he want to chain her to him for all the eternity and only for him.
You can also supplement his plans, if he make his plans or not ... And all this only has to read more thoroughly that chapter and if it may have something to do with their secrets ...Great Topic!!!

I think Kaname went to the academy to kill Sara and chain Yuuki once and for all
Kaname will not Die
He deserves to live for eternity by Yuuki's side!

lililovelilica wrote:I think Kaname went to the academy to kill Sara and chain Yuuki once and for all
Kaname will not Die
He deserves to live for eternity by Yuuki's side!

man i hope you are right

yukikuran90210 wrote:

lililovelilica wrote:I think Kaname went to the academy to kill Sara and chain Yuuki once and for all
Kaname will not Die
He deserves to live for eternity by Yuuki's side!

man i hope you are right

yes me 2!!!