Vampire Knight chapter 78 Full Raws + first translation

First topic message reminder :

Here is the link >> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1336108943

A bunch of thanks to the chinese team 【玖玖爱枢♀】 for their hard work!

first translation you can also find: http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/976446.html#comments

lililovelilica wrote:
Wich mean Ichiru Knew about Kaname being the ancestor of the Kuran Family and the oldest Vampire?

No, ichiru did not know kaname was the progenitor of Kuran. he found out this information in the same time with takuma, and this because kaname told them.
Ichiru asked kaname why he - kaname - cannot kill rido. Kaname aswered because he - Kaname - is the progenitor of kuran and rido is the master who awoke him from his slumber.

aya-chan wrote:

lililovelilica wrote:
Wich mean Ichiru Knew about Kaname being the ancestor of the Kuran Family and the oldest Vampire?

No, ichiru did not know kaname was the progenitor of Kuran. he found out this information in the same time with takuma, and this because kaname told them.
Ichiru asked kaname why he - kaname - cannot kill rido. Kaname aswered because he - Kaname - is the progenitor of kuran and rido is the master who awoke him from his slumber.

Wow
Thanks for the Info...but what Kaname gained by saying that to Takuma?
It's meaningless right?
That's probally how Sara Discovered Kaname's secret(maybe)?

lililovelilica wrote:

aya-chan wrote:

lililovelilica wrote:
Wich mean Ichiru Knew about Kaname being the ancestor of the Kuran Family and the oldest Vampire?

No, ichiru did not know kaname was the progenitor of Kuran. he found out this information in the same time with takuma, and this because kaname told them.
Ichiru asked kaname why he - kaname - cannot kill rido. Kaname aswered because he - Kaname - is the progenitor of kuran and rido is the master who awoke him from his slumber.

Wow
Thanks for the Info...but what Kaname gained by saying that to Takuma?
It's meaningless right?
That's probally how Sara Discovered Kaname's secret(maybe)?

It´s a possibility...I think Kaname trusts takuma and therefore he told him too...it´s not meaningless to tell someone you like about you...

lililovelilica wrote:

aya-chan wrote:

lililovelilica wrote:
Wich mean Ichiru Knew about Kaname being the ancestor of the Kuran Family and the oldest Vampire?

No, ichiru did not know kaname was the progenitor of Kuran. he found out this information in the same time with takuma, and this because kaname told them.
Ichiru asked kaname why he - kaname - cannot kill rido. Kaname aswered because he - Kaname - is the progenitor of kuran and rido is the master who awoke him from his slumber.

Wow
Thanks for the Info...but what Kaname gained by saying that to Takuma?
It's meaningless right?
That's probally how Sara Discovered Kaname's secret(maybe)?

As aya-chan said correctly above, Kaname revealed to Takuma and Ichirou that he is the ancestor of the Kurans cuz he wanted to explain to them why he couldn’t deliver the final blow to Rido.
And yes it was Takuma who disclosed this info to Sara. Here is the particular scan>>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-40425-13/vampire-knight/chapter-56.html

Now for me this revelation is something that shows that Kaname had the intention to reveal and to Yuuki his true identity at some point, something which is significant to judge or estimate many things, such as his first dialogue with Rido or if his current plan is a continuation of the first arc etc.

juliet wrote:

Yagari:
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2173-23/vampire-knight/chapter-47.html
If you notice, Yagari never names a name: Kaname is the one claiming that it is Rido here.

Yagari says:

and when i found that there were corrupt liaisons between the high hierarchy of the hunter association and the vampire council, I was finally certain that what happened four years ago was not a pureblood losing their mind as it was said...and that there was someone...in the shadow corrupting the relations between the council and the association.

and Kaname answers to Yagari who is certain as he states above;

That man was after my little sister's youthful and thick blood but Zero has already taken care of him for us...

so how do you explain this dialogue?

I call it Kaname giving an answer and interrupting Yagari. Yagari never named a name. Rido doesn't fit the description that Yagari gave: Asato and the former HA pres were on speaking terms. Asato was his own boss and was not following orders from Rido. I am curious as to who Yagari would have named if Kaname did not stop Yagari from speaking. Personally, I think Yagari's description fits Asato best.

I already discussed how far I trust Kaname or Ichiru as a source for that information, based on Ichiru's abilty to fact check (he can't read people's memories in blood, not a vamp) and Kaname is only one "reliable" source of info. No one else with credibility has confirmed or backed up what he said.

So yes, aya-chan, I am picking and choosing who I think is reliable, based on what the manga says what their capabilities are. Ichiru cannot read memories through blood as a human. Shizuka already lied once to Ichiru, saying that she spared Zero because Ichiru asked....umm...she knew the twin curse, and she made it clear that she knew it right before she bit Zero. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2127-20/vampire-knight/chapter-19.html

Shizuka changed Zero and spared for the same reason Sara wants Zero: Zero, as a completed vampire hunter twin, makes an ideal anti-vampire weapon. Shizuka kept Ichiru to combine the twins at a later point. Keeping Ichiru as a human makes the eventual combination process easier. For Shizuka, Ichiru was a means to an end....She might have had some feelings, but she eventually would have eventually sacrificed Ichiru.

*********************

The execution list is made by hunter vote, as per Aidou:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2133-20/vampire-knight/chapter-21.html

Manipulation of that list is not likely an easy process. Rido was already well hidden, why bother hiding one's bad deed with the extra step? Not that I agree that Rido was even capable of setting everything in motion, all that he has said about himself concerning the ten years points to him being incapable.

Rido gains nothing by what he "did": punishing Shizuka gains him an enemy and I doubt it was a turn on for her. On many levels Rido gains nothing by ordering the death of the lover.

Well, anyways...I did my best to look at the manga and find something that would point to Rido doing the deed. Rido had opportunities to say that it was him, but he never did. Kaname has a motive to lie if he did it or has his own reasons for hiding the real person who did it, and Ichiru was never respected enough as a weak hunter twin to be entrusted with the truth.

caela wrote: Rido doesn't fit the description that Yagari gave: Asato and the former HA pres were on speaking terms. Asato was his own boss and was not following orders from Rido. I am curious as to who Yagari would have named if Kaname did not stop Yagari from speaking. Personally, I think Yagari's description fits Asato best.

Yagari words are:
I was finally certain that what happened four years ago was not a pureblood losing their mind as it was said...

The pureblood yagari is reffering to is shizuka, not rido.

and that there was someone...in the shadow corrupting the relations between the council and the association.

The person in the shadow yagari is reffering to is Rido, not asato.
And at this cames Kaname reply
That man was after my little sister's youthful and thick blood but Zero has already taken care of him for us...

I already discussed how far I trust Kaname or Ichiru as a source for that information, based on Ichiru's abilty to fact check (he can't read people's memories in blood, not a vamp)

Kaname knew from the beggining that rido and the senate are working together, and rido is somewhere kept in the secret by the vampire council, more exactly in shiki uncle mansion.

As for ichiru, during those four years he was together with shizuka, and during this time shizuka made her own investigation which lead her to Rido.

->kaname to shizuka in chapter 19/20

We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka

I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.

Kaname objective is/was to destroy rido, and kaname is talking about him having the same goal as her, aka killing the ones responsable for their twisted fate: rido and the senate.

and Kaname is only one "reliable" source of info. No one else with credibility has confirmed or backed up what he said.

But who should have come and confirm kaname sayings? all were dead: rido, senate, ichiru.

Even if for you ichiru is not a reliable source of information because he's not a vampire and cannot know the truth through blood, let me remind you he was together with shizuka for 4 years, and in those years she made her own investigations.

->Ichiru to Zero in chapter 40

I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.

Ichiru is talking about shizuka wish to kill rido, while in chapter 19, kaname is talking about the same wish, though he doesn't mention a name. >>>We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka

However, kaname words are confirmed by official fanbook, the one you dismiss so badly.
Moreover, in the same mini chapter i gave you prove of this before - who's title is Yuuki, Kaname, Zero - the truth about the three - above is written Read these pages at your own risk! Only for those who really want to know the truth!!

The official fanbook is a source of information for fans, and it would be futile for Hino to spread false information about her own story.

Shizuka already lied once to Ichiru, saying that she spared Zero because Ichiru asked....umm...she knew the twin curse, and she made it clear that she knew it right before she bit Zero.

It would be strange for a pureblood to not know about the twin curse. Shizuka even told ichiru that the twin curse is hunters punishment for devoring a progenitor of vampires.

Since shizuka knew about the twin curse and she saw ichiru and zero before, looking awfully alike, I think it was normal for her to deduct they're twins. not to mention ichiru seeing - and talking with - shizuka countless times before her killing his familly.

Shizuka changed Zero and spared for the same reason Sara wants Zero

Shizuka kept Ichiru to combine the twins at a later point.

Wrong. Shizuka turned zero into a vampire because *according to the official fanbook*

Shizuka sees in Zero the same thing that she saw in her lover and turns him into a vampire.

As for Ichiru: she felt something in ichiru that's similar to herself, so she decides to keep him by her side.

Shizuka changed Zero and spared for the same reason Sara wants Zero: Zero, as a completed vampire hunter twin, makes an ideal anti-vampire weapon. Shizuka kept Ichiru to combine the twins at a later point. Keeping Ichiru as a human makes the eventual combination process easier. For Shizuka, Ichiru was a means to an end....She might have had some feelings, but she eventually would have eventually sacrificed Ichiru.

I think this is your theory and not a fact, since nowhere in manga is mentioned about shizuka desire to make zero devour his twin, and eventually becoming the most powerful hunter in order for her to accomplish her wish.

However, I would be glad for you to point out the scans where it shows shizuka wish to sacrifice ichiru in order for zero to become the most powerful hunter,and eventually for her to accomplish her revenge.

Shizuka came into Cross Acedemy to kill kaname in order to gain the power to kill Rido,and not to take zero and make him devour his twin.
Shizuka even told kaname that she came into Cross Academy to kill him with yuuki as assasin.

->maria to zero in chapter 26

There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.

The execution list is made by hunter vote, as per Aidou:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2133-20/vampire-knight/chapter-21.html

Manipulation of that list is not likely an easy process.

Actually, in shojo beat official translation

Aidou: My father told me she has a pureblood fiance but she stared keeping a human male by her side. To be exact, he was a vampire who used to be a human--a servant. Shizuka loved him. But he was put on the vampires hunters execution list...and the Kiryu hunted him down.

In official translation nowhere is mentioned about voting who would be put on the list or not.

Moreover, on the next page:

Aidou: but I've also heard that the servant had not yet fallen to level e status.

Kain: then there's no way he could have been on the execution list.

According to kain's words, a former human who had not fallen to level e shouldn't have been on hunters list.

Someone change the list for that man name to be in there, and that someone was the senate who acted at rido order.

Rido gains nothing by what he "did": punishing Shizuka gains him an enemy and I doubt it was a turn on for her. On many levels Rido gains nothing by ordering the death of the lover.

Since when rido restrain his moves in order not to gain enemies?
Let me remind you that he stole haruka and juuri first born and kill him. I think he realised his siblings won't give him flowers or invite him to the Christmas dinner after.

Also let me remind you that shiki's mother became mentally instable because of rido. and she doesn't have lovely thoughts about rido.
what reasons did he had to bring that woman in that state?

Maybe rido couldn't stand the shame: his fiancee preffered the company of a former human, and not his, a pureblood vampire.
He was a madman after all, does he really need a reason?

aya-chan wrote:

caela wrote: Rido doesn't fit the description that Yagari gave: Asato and the former HA pres were on speaking terms. Asato was his own boss and was not following orders from Rido. I am curious as to who Yagari would have named if Kaname did not stop Yagari from speaking. Personally, I think Yagari's description fits Asato best.

Yagari words are:
I was finally certain that what happened four years ago was not a pureblood losing their mind as it was said...

The pureblood yagari is reffering to is shizuka, not rido.

and that there was someone...in the shadow corrupting the relations between the council and the association.

The person in the shadow yagari is reffering to is Rido, not asato.
And at this cames Kaname reply
That man was after my little sister's youthful and thick blood but Zero has already taken care of him for us...

I already discussed how far I trust Kaname or Ichiru as a source for that information, based on Ichiru's abilty to fact check (he can't read people's memories in blood, not a vamp)

Kaname knew from the beggining that rido and the senate are working together, and rido is somewhere kept in the secret by the vampire council, more exactly in shiki uncle mansion.

As for ichiru, during those four years he was together with shizuka, and during this time shizuka made her own investigation which lead her to Rido.

->kaname to shizuka in chapter 19/20

We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka

I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.

Kaname objective is/was to destroy rido, and kaname is talking about him having the same goal as her, aka killing the ones responsable for their twisted fate: rido and the senate.

and Kaname is only one "reliable" source of info. No one else with credibility has confirmed or backed up what he said.

But who should have come and confirm kaname sayings? all were dead: rido, senate, ichiru.

Even if for you ichiru is not a reliable source of information because he's not a vampire and cannot know the truth through blood, let me remind you he was together with shizuka for 4 years, and in those years she made her own investigations.

->Ichiru to Zero in chapter 40

I tried only to fulfill shizuka-sama wish...He was my only target...The one who imprisoned shizuka-sama and interffered with the execution list...Rido Kuran.

Ichiru is talking about shizuka wish to kill rido, while in chapter 19, kaname is talking about the same wish, though he doesn't mention a name. >>>We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka

However, kaname words are confirmed by official fanbook, the one you dismiss so badly.
Moreover, in the same mini chapter i gave you prove of this before - who's title is Yuuki, Kaname, Zero - the truth about the three - above is written Read these pages at your own risk! Only for those who really want to know the truth!!

The official fanbook is a source of information for fans, and it would be futile for Hino to spread false information about her own story.

Shizuka already lied once to Ichiru, saying that she spared Zero because Ichiru asked....umm...she knew the twin curse, and she made it clear that she knew it right before she bit Zero.

It would be strange for a pureblood to not know about the twin curse. Shizuka even told ichiru that the twin curse is hunters punishment for devoring a progenitor of vampires.

Since shizuka knew about the twin curse and she saw ichiru and zero before, looking awfully alike, I think it was normal for her to deduct they're twins. not to mention ichiru seeing - and talking with - shizuka countless times before her killing his familly.

Shizuka changed Zero and spared for the same reason Sara wants Zero

Shizuka kept Ichiru to combine the twins at a later point.

Wrong. Shizuka turned zero into a vampire because *according to the official fanbook*

Shizuka sees in Zero the same thing that she saw in her lover and turns him into a vampire.

As for Ichiru: she felt something in ichiru that's similar to herself, so she decides to keep him by her side.

Shizuka changed Zero and spared for the same reason Sara wants Zero: Zero, as a completed vampire hunter twin, makes an ideal anti-vampire weapon. Shizuka kept Ichiru to combine the twins at a later point. Keeping Ichiru as a human makes the eventual combination process easier. For Shizuka, Ichiru was a means to an end....She might have had some feelings, but she eventually would have eventually sacrificed Ichiru.

I think this is your theory and not a fact, since nowhere in manga is mentioned about shizuka desire to make zero devour his twin, and eventually becoming the most powerful hunter in order for her to accomplish her wish.

However, I would be glad for you to point out the scans where it shows shizuka wish to sacrifice ichiru in order for zero to become the most powerful hunter,and eventually for her to accomplish her revenge.

Shizuka came into Cross Acedemy to kill kaname in order to gain the power to kill Rido,and not to take zero and make him devour his twin.
Shizuka even told kaname that she came into Cross Academy to kill him with yuuki as assasin.

->maria to zero in chapter 26

There was someone behind the scenes who used the kiryu's as pawns to hunt down shizuka's lover. Someone who wasn't happy that she was in love with a vampire who used to be a human. And when shizuka regained her senses, she realized who the real enemy was and tried to gain more power to destroy her enemy. who ever did those things to her is the real enemy...the enemy of the purebloods and of you.

The execution list is made by hunter vote, as per Aidou:

http://www.mangareader.net/104-2133-20/vampire-knight/chapter-21.html

Manipulation of that list is not likely an easy process.

Actually, in shojo beat official translation

Aidou: My father told me she has a pureblood fiance but she stared keeping a human male by her side. To be exact, he was a vampire who used to be a human--a servant. Shizuka loved him. But he was put on the vampires hunters execution list...and the Kiryu hunted him down.

In official translation nowhere is mentioned about voting who would be put on the list or not.

Moreover, on the next page:

Aidou: but I've also heard that the servant had not yet fallen to level e status.

Kain: then there's no way he could have been on the execution list.

According to kain's words, a former human who had not fallen to level e shouldn't have been on hunters list.

Someone change the list for that man name to be in there, and that someone was the senate who acted at rido order.

Rido gains nothing by what he "did": punishing Shizuka gains him an enemy and I doubt it was a turn on for her. On many levels Rido gains nothing by ordering the death of the lover.

Since when rido restrain his moves in order not to gain enemies?
Let me remind you that he stole haruka and juuri first born and kill him. I think he realised his siblings won't give him flowers or invite him to the Christmas dinner after.

Also let me remind you that shiki's mother became mentally instable because of rido. and she doesn't have lovely thoughts about rido.
what reasons did he had to bring that woman in that state?

Maybe rido couldn't stand the shame: his fiancee preffered the company of a former human, and not his, a pureblood vampire.
He was a madman after all, does he really need a reason?

Aya excellent work there providing all the cues, quotes that there are in the official volumes and the fan book and they all pinpoint, no scream its Rido.

Rido collaborated with the Senate and collaborated also with the ex-hunters association president; this was also his link for the hunters list. Let's not forget that the ex-hunters association president was taking the blood of a pureblood. Which pureblood? and what did he do in order to deserve such a great offering? it was never mentioned but if we combine all the info and clues, we know the person and we can assume the reason.

Moreover Shizuka had come into the academy after so much time to take Zero, why, not just because she thought of him as a replacement of her lover, Kaname's words describe a different objective;

We probably have the same objective in mind...shizuka

I shall destroy what you truly hated...those who twisted our fate of the purebloods.

So they both wanted Rido dead and they were both fighting over the same weapon here; Zero, at least that's what i understand here. Only that Shizuka's plan included and Yuuki's death as well, this is what Shizuka states. Her problem though is not Kaname, Kaname was a mean for her in order to get greater power. I think that with all the above points made, the scenario is quite straight forward.

Everyone raises some interesting points here.

@caela: i dont agree that it was kaname who changed the execution list for reasons already stated, the only way i see kaname being involved is he may have been the one to release shizuka from the cage the senate kept her in. we know kaname knew where it was, and also he did pity shizuka, but there isnt any proof to this yet. something that condradicts this is aidou-dono's words of the sin being something before the shizuka incident. though these same words to me then point that the sin wasnt involved in shizuka killing the kiryu's. aidou-dono said it was something before that, so before this incident. the sin predates the kiryu and shizuka incident so i dont think kanames sin is really to do with it or changing the hunter excution list.

i can understand that you see certain things as reliable then others. in vk some things are so ambigious its hard to know if they are fact or not, alot is down to our own interpretation, so we wont all see it the same.

@aya-chan

Actually, in shojo beat official translation

Aidou: My father told me she has a pureblood fiance but she stared keeping a human male by her side. To be exact, he was a vampire who used to be a human--a servant. Shizuka loved him. But he was put on the vampires hunters execution list...and the Kiryu hunted him down.

In official translation nowhere is mentioned about voting who would be put on the list or not.

Moreover, on the next page:

Aidou: but I've also heard that the servant had not yet fallen to level e status.

Kain: then there's no way he could have been on the execution list.

According to kain's words, a former human who had not fallen to level e shouldn't have been on hunters list.

Someone change the list for that man name to be in there, and that someone was the senate who acted at rido order.

excellent point. kain knew immediatly that someone who hadnt fallen level E shouldnt be on the list and surely the hunters should know who they are hunting and what level they are. this implies the president as being corrupt from that time when the shizuka and kiryu incident happened. the president allowed this change to be made, and this leads me onto another point.

Kaname knew from the beggining that rido and the senate are working together, and rido is somewhere kept in the secret by the vampire council, more exactly in shiki uncle mansion.

I'd like to add that the president of the association was also in league with asato and rido. proof being as follows.

the president was taking pureblood blood. only source asato could get for this, would be rido. ergo the president had rido's blood in him, we've seen how controlling pureblood blood can be, (takuma being a prime example at the moment, and also how yuuki's blood brought the NC back to their senses). so asato or rido could easily tamper with the list. counter argument with this is we dont know how long the president was drinking rido's blood, something that will probably remain unanswered, but from how his body had changed so much to the point he smelt like a vampire and also turned to ashes instead of leaving a body behind indicates he'd had a huge quantity as it changed his very basic genetic code really. so this makes me believe he'd had this blood for a while, possible years. it also seems the president was getting this blood in a trade, by his co-operation with asato and rido. he gets the blood and does some of their dirty work. we see in the battle at the end of first arc he brings the vampires that were locked in the association to fight, http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-13/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2171-26/vampire-knight/chapter-45.html proof really he was working along side vampires and moving at the same time as rido indicates working in league with him. too much coincidence for both to decided to attack the academy at the same time, the timing to me screams they were working together. so rido and asato had a big connection with the association and to me could easily have changed the list.

this brings me onto rido and asato's relationship. asato called rido 'sama' and was very submissive in his approach with him.
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2157-30/vampire-knight/chapter-31.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2156-12/vampire-knight/chapter-30.html
i feel though their alliance was a temporary one, as we heard from asato himself he wanted to get rid of all purebloods, http://www.mangareader.net/104-2177-7/vampire-knight/chapter-49.html in a way rido was an means to an end and vice versa. it was a relationship of use, get rid of mutual enemies really, in the end i think they'd have tried to oust each other unfortunatly we will never know for certain.

Excellent work there aya-chan and Bloodredhead, very well documented!

I’ll just emphasize on two points:

1. About Shizuka that turned Zero into a vampire cuz she wanted to use him as a weapon like Sara.
This is something that may occurred when Shizuka found out that her real enemy and responsible for her misfortune was Rido but NOT 4 years ago when she attacked at the Kiryuus i.e. when she bitten Zero. Even though that according to her sayings the mean/weapon to destroy her enemy were Kaname’s powers thus she wanted his head in order to gain his powers and PROCEED to her final target > RIDO. So Kaname was the weapon and not Zero.
Aya provided the cues from the fanbook … I’ll reinforce this info using and the official volume which surprise-surprise confirms what the fanbook states AGAIN.

I’ll quote myself from an older post that answers to the same “interpretation”:

Actually Shizuka at that time (when she attacked the Kiryuus) wasn’t thinking clearly and composed … she was berserk due to great pain. So we can’t exclude the possibility of killing Zero … a person in such state is unpredictable. Though she indeed bitten him first, prior she killed his parents maybe to inflict pain to them too.

However the fact that Shizuka turned Zero into vampire seems to be again a random or coincidental move in the beginning at least and not so calculated to gain a significant piece that would be used later on. Note that at that time Shizuka didn’t know about Rido’s involvement thus she thought her revenge was over that night (< this is also supported from Maria’s narration later to Zero) and from Shizuka’s wording as well >>

Shizuka: I’m satisfied Ichirou … I’ve destroyed my nemesis, the Kiryus and I’ve obtained an amusing toy as well.” (chap. 20)

She thought that she had already destroyed the root of her misfortune (> the Kiryuus) and says an “amusing toy” which also hints that Shizuka didn’t have in mind to use Zero as a weapon i.e. using his strength.

In fact Shizuka’s stimulation to turn Zero was due to the similarities he had – or Shizuka saw in Zero – with her lover >>

- Shizuka to Zero: “You are but a child yet your eyes pierced me with daggers … you are the second human to face me with such strong emotions.” (chap.20)

- Shizuka for her lover: “That human was different from all the other food I’d had. I decided to talk to him instead of devouring him. For the first time I was attached to someone and I did not hesitate to turn him into a vampire.” (bonus chapter of volume 8 where Hino presents glimpses from Shizuka’s life the 4 years she lived in Maria’s body with Ichirou )

>> thus she decided to leave Zero alive and turned him in order to replace that bond she had with her lover. Which means for me that Shizuka could perfectly have killed Zero instead, something that Kaname or anyone else couldn’t predict or control again … i.e. his “weapon” to kill Rido might have been destroyed by Shizuka.

2. About who PB gave its blood to the former president of the HA:
Except from the FACT that the president was the lackey of Asato who was in cahoot with Rido thus the conclusion that Rido was the one who gave his blood, there is also a statement from the former president to Zero which sheds more light>>

President: “Zero… you are acquainted with Kaname Kuran? He doesn’t currently have the authority equal to his lineage… but the Kuran family is the best lineage among PBs. If you can get his blood, it may delay your falling to level-e. … Well no one has ever succeeded in doing such a thing yet.” (chapter 27, official volume 6)
And here the scans as well >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2153-27/vampire-knight/chapter-27.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2153-28/vampire-knight/chapter-27.html

>> in other words the president himself a) knows that the Kurans’ blood prolongs the lifespan (maybe from his own experience lol) and b) no one has EVER succeeded to take Kaname’s blood yet!
And another confirmation that Kaname did NOT share his blood is Asato’s words as well >>

Asato to Kaname: “Your overwhelming youth, power, beauty … I pray that someday I will be able to receive the benefits of your unrivalled blood …” (chapter 10 official volume 3)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2101-15/vampire-knight/chapter-10.html

So Kaname is excluded as a source of pure blood for the former president and everyone else as a matter of fact!

Additionally Asato’s wish to receive Kaname’s blood –a wish that never granted – proves that Kaname even when he was under Asato’s surveillance and more vulnerable i.e. the time when the list was altered, didn’t submit to Asato. *cough*

Everyone has been bringing up interesting points ^^ I have to say this was quite a happening chapter and has me really excited about what happens next.

@Bloodredhead: I agree, according to Aidou-dono the sin happened sometime before Shizuka went missing so it can't exactly be the Kiryu incident itself, rather something that precedes it. This also implies that the sin happened fairly recently rather than during ancient times when Kaname was the ancestor.


My take on Kaname's plan: well, I think when Kaname was re-awoken by Rido, he really didn't want to live life a second time. Hence he secretly carried a death wish as he grew up and began regaining his memories. I believe while he was a child and lived with Yuuki, he really loved her and hence later became resolved to turn her back into a human after Juuri's spell wore out, since it would give Yuuki a better life and fulfill his wish to die as well. He mentioned this wish to Cross too.

But then he meets the Kiryu twins and things change. this encounter is told to be the beginning of his plans. Yet, he told Cross his objective was still the same but the path he'd follow had changed. And the sin (according to Aidou-dono) happens somewhere in between this. Not to mention what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of Kaname's sin.

I think that after Haruka and Juuri were killed, Kaname initially wanted to eventually sacrifice himself for Yuuki. But then, somehow he became involved in this "sin" (sometime before Shizuka went missing). Maybe he thought he had resolved this sin incident or maybe he wants to die for Yuuki as a result of it? I really don't know. But then he meets the Kiryu twins which, in my opinion are a result of that sin since it's not possible for them to be born otherwise (this goes with what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of the sin). This meeting marks the beginning of Kaname's plan and possibly a detour from his original wish(dying for Yuuki). Maybe the birth of the twins was caused by the sin and maybe this birth foreshadows dire consequences and Kaname decides to correct his mistake (start his plan) when he sees them? This is really just random speculation on my part so feel free to disagree.

Though I do not think Zero is stupid enough to be fooled by Sara. I personally think he is planning to use Sara for information and/or other purposes hence his wanting to keep her alive. I mean just a few moments ago he was hell bent on killing all pure bloods and suddenly he wants to protect one, not to mention work under her? It just doesn't add up IMO. And his character isn't constructed that way to make him emotional enough to believe whatever that the likes of Sara tell him. It would be OOC for Zero to suddenly become Sara's toy so willingly. Hence I am giving him a benefit of doubt here (just like I gave Kaname one since I don't know the reason behind his actions) because I do not know what exactly Zero's thinking.

nina wrote:
2. About who PB gave its blood to the former president of the HA:
Except from the FACT that the president was the lackey of Asato who was in cahoot with Rido thus the conclusion that Rido was the one who gave his blood, there is also a statement from the former president to Zero which sheds more light>>

President: “Zero… you are acquainted with Kaname Kuran? He doesn’t currently have the authority equal to his lineage… but the Kuran family is the best lineage among PBs. If you can get his blood, it may delay your falling to level-e. … Well no one has ever succeeded in doing such a thing yet.” (chapter 27, official volume 6)
And here the scans as well >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2153-27/vampire-knight/chapter-27.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2153-28/vampire-knight/chapter-27.html

>> in other words the president himself a) knows that the Kurans’ blood prolongs the lifespan (maybe from his own experience lol) and b) no one has EVER succeeded to take Kaname’s blood yet!
And another confirmation that Kaname did NOT share his blood is Asato’s words as well >>

Asato to Kaname: “Your overwhelming youth, power, beauty … I pray that someday I will be able to receive the benefits of your unrivalled blood …” (chapter 10 official volume 3)
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2101-15/vampire-knight/chapter-10.html

So Kaname is excluded as a source of pure blood for the former president and everyone else as a matter of fact!

Additionally Asato’s wish to receive Kaname’s blood –a wish that never granted – proves that Kaname even when he was under Asato’s surveillance and more vulnerable i.e. the time when the list was altered, didn’t submit to Asato. *cough*

Thanks nina! You said it better then i did!!!

shizza24 wrote:@Bloodredhead: I agree, according to Aidou-dono the sin happened sometime before Shizuka went missing so it can't exactly be the Kiryu incident itself, rather something that precedes it. This also implies that the sin happened fairly recently rather than during ancient times when Kaname was the ancestor.


My take on Kaname's plan: well, I think when Kaname was re-awoken by Rido, he really didn't want to live life a second time. Hence he secretly carried a death wish as he grew up and began regaining his memories. I believe while he was a child and lived with Yuuki, he really loved her and hence later became resolved to turn her back into a human after Juuri's spell wore out, since it would give Yuuki a better life and fulfill his wish to die as well. He mentioned this wish to Cross too.

But then he meets the Kiryu twins and things change. this encounter is told to be the beginning of his plans. Yet, he told Cross his objective was still the same but the path he'd follow had changed. And the sin (according to Aidou-dono) happens somewhere in between this. Not to mention what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of Kaname's sin.

I think that after Haruka and Juuri were killed, Kaname initially wanted to eventually sacrifice himself for Yuuki. But then, somehow he became involved in this "sin" (sometime before Shizuka went missing). Maybe he thought he had resolved this sin incident or maybe he wants to die for Yuuki as a result of it? I really don't know. But then he meets the Kiryu twins which, in my opinion are a result of that sin since it's not possible for them to be born otherwise (this goes with what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of the sin). This meeting marks the beginning of Kaname's plan and possibly a detour from his original wish(dying for Yuuki). Maybe the birth of the twins was caused by the sin and maybe this birth foreshadows dire consequences and Kaname decides to correct his mistake (start his plan) when he sees them? This is really just random speculation on my part so feel free to disagree.

Interesting points shizza, and i admit i totally forgot about kanames wish in the pats to change yuuki human so thanks for bringing it up, shows how kanames plans took a sudden change.

I wanted to look at the part i have highlighted in your post. If the twins are foreshadowing to dire consequences, and kaname picked up on this, and its this instant that made him change his plans. Could it be link with his ancestor days more? As before like you pointed out he seemed to wanted to change yuuki human again (which isnt the case now), so i feel the sin may have predated his re-awakening. Otherwise i dont think his plan would have changed so suddenly. He saw soemthing when he saw those twins, shocked that they had been born. I feel its not the fact it was zero and ichiru i feel its the fact that the hunters managed to give brith to two living twins. Linking with the twins curse which has been said to be due to a progenitor(corsses fingers that the right spelling) vampire - these being the vampires from the ancestor days. So i feel the actually sin happened in the past but its fruitation as sara called it is in the present in the form of Zero(and ichiru who is inside him). Make sense?

Though I do not think Zero is stupid enough to be fooled by Sara. I personally think he is planning to use Sara for information and/or other purposes hence his wanting to keep her alive. I mean just a few moments ago he was hell bent on killing all pure bloods and suddenly he wants to protect one, not to mention work under her? It just doesn't add up IMO. And his character isn't constructed that way to make him emotional enough to believe whatever that the likes of Sara tell him. It would be OOC for Zero to suddenly become Sara's toy so willingly. Hence I am giving him a benefit of doubt here (just like I gave Kaname one since I don't know the reason behind his actions) because I do not know what exactly Zero's thinking.

Your right it does seem out of character. And i think if we give one of the boys the benefit of the doubt with what they are doing, we should give the other the same curtesy. Next chapter should hopefully shead some light onto what Zero is up to and what is going through that head of his.

Bloodredhead wrote:

shizza24 wrote:@Bloodredhead: I agree, according to Aidou-dono the sin happened sometime before Shizuka went missing so it can't exactly be the Kiryu incident itself, rather something that precedes it. This also implies that the sin happened fairly recently rather than during ancient times when Kaname was the ancestor.

My take on Kaname's plan: well, I think when Kaname was re-awoken by Rido, he really didn't want to live life a second time. Hence he secretly carried a death wish as he grew up and began regaining his memories. I believe while he was a child and lived with Yuuki, he really loved her and hence later became resolved to turn her back into a human after Juuri's spell wore out, since it would give Yuuki a better life and fulfill his wish to die as well. He mentioned this wish to Cross too.

But then he meets the Kiryu twins and things change. this encounter is told to be the beginning of his plans. Yet, he told Cross his objective was still the same but the path he'd follow had changed. And the sin (according to Aidou-dono) happens somewhere in between this. Not to mention what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of Kaname's sin.

I think that after Haruka and Juuri were killed, Kaname initially wanted to eventually sacrifice himself for Yuuki. But then, somehow he became involved in this "sin" (sometime before Shizuka went missing). Maybe he thought he had resolved this sin incident or maybe he wants to die for Yuuki as a result of it? I really don't know. But then he meets the Kiryu twins which, in my opinion are a result of that sin since it's not possible for them to be born otherwise (this goes with what Sara said about Zero's being the crystallization of the sin). This meeting marks the beginning of Kaname's plan and possibly a detour from his original wish(dying for Yuuki). Maybe the birth of the twins was caused by the sin and maybe this birth foreshadows dire consequences and Kaname decides to correct his mistake (start his plan) when he sees them? This is really just random speculation on my part so feel free to disagree.

Interesting points shizza, and i admit i totally forgot about kanames wish in the pats to change yuuki human so thanks for bringing it up, shows how kanames plans took a sudden change.

I wanted to look at the part i have highlighted in your post. If the twins are foreshadowing to dire consequences, and kaname picked up on this, and its this instant that made him change his plans. Could it be link with his ancestor days more? As before like you pointed out he seemed to wanted to change yuuki human again (which isnt the case now), so i feel the sin may have predated his re-awakening. Otherwise i dont think his plan would have changed so suddenly. He saw soemthing when he saw those twins, shocked that they had been born. I feel its not the fact it was zero and ichiru i feel its the fact that the hunters managed to give brith to two living twins. Linking with the twins curse which has been said to be due to a progenitor(corsses fingers that the right spelling) vampire - these being the vampires from the ancestor days. So i feel the actually sin happened in the past but its fruitation as sara called it is in the present in the form of Zero(and ichiru who is inside him). Make sense?

I agree. Whatever happened before Shizuka went missing could likely relate to his days back as an ancestor as well as the twin curse and the Kiryu's involvement in it. It could all connect into a bigger picture IMO.

Though I do not think Zero is stupid enough to be fooled by Sara. I personally think he is planning to use Sara for information and/or other purposes hence his wanting to keep her alive. I mean just a few moments ago he was hell bent on killing all pure bloods and suddenly he wants to protect one, not to mention work under her? It just doesn't add up IMO. And his character isn't constructed that way to make him emotional enough to believe whatever that the likes of Sara tell him. It would be OOC for Zero to suddenly become Sara's toy so willingly. Hence I am giving him a benefit of doubt here (just like I gave Kaname one since I don't know the reason behind his actions) because I do not know what exactly Zero's thinking.

Your right it does seem out of character. And i think if we give one of the boys the benefit of the doubt with what they are doing, we should give the other the same curtesy. Next chapter should hopefully shead some light onto what Zero is up to and what is going through that head of his.

Yes I think we should wait and see what is revealed about this situation in the next chapter before judging the characters.