Vampire Knight chapter 78 Full Raws + first translation

First topic message reminder :

Here is the link >> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1336108943

A bunch of thanks to the chinese team 【玖玖爱枢♀】 for their hard work!

first translation you can also find: http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/976446.html#comments

caela wrote:@KuranPrince:People= vampires/humans/hunters

Well... from your assumptions, Kaname have never killed any humans (especially hunters) in his lifetime. He only wants a peaceful society for both humans and vampires. Not only for him, but for Yuuki as well. It's a good thing that Kaname isn't as evil as Sara.

caela wrote:

@aya-chan: hehe, I don't think we will agree with this one, but the Hunter's association has been doing nothing for awhile....and that's pretty lame to me. Zero cannot openly go against the hunters lameness as a future president: for him to make any move worthwhile, he needs a strong non-hunter ally. His choices are (1) the Kurans (2) Sara. Zero could kill Sara if anything goes wrong...he won't be as easily able to stop the Kurans.

If I remember correctly, and I do, few chapters ago zero and the rest of the hunters, except kaien agreed to kaname doings. zero had no wish to stop kaname, since kaname is doing something he wanted to do: killing purebloods.
The only hunter he could have went against was cross kaien.

And actually no one gave him a choice, kaname didn't anyway. Sara told something to zero, how kaname is responsable for his family destruction, but zero was the one who let himself driven by hate and decided to step on sara's side.

If yuuki will decide to be on kaname side, two sides will exist: kaname x yuuki and zero x sara. who knows what they will do against each other and how problems will escalate.
And who knows what zero will decide when he will be around sara. he might even drink her blood, and we knows the effect of this.

Also: Sara gave being a vampire as an option to those girls....Zero was forced to become a vampire. And yes, Sara is evil, and Kaname is also evil in Zero's eyes. Choices, choices.

That option was a way to respect the law. but sara did not turn a girl into a vampire, she turned more than one, enough for hunters association to take notice of that.

This all only shows us who sides we'll take?
saraxzero's side or yuukix kaname's side?
I'm with yuuki and kaname,because they're the beggining of the first and second arc and more important i LOVE KANAME!
but in the next chapter we'll finaly be able to see what is sara hiding from us...i want to see some Yume scenes too.
and i want yuuki to decide to be by kaname's side herself...decision is something difficult to make huh?

mmm...throwing out his morals and shame on him?...How do you judge Kaname then? Zero considers Kaname "filth" and technically Kaname has killed more people than Sara: given a choice between Sara and Kaname...

I am sure that everyone will be judged according to his own actions, decisions and intentions at the end...and everyone is responsible for his own choices, there is no need to compare anything.

The discussion here is Zero that really surprises with his attitude.

Given the fact that he hates purebloods and he does not trust their nature > do we remember that he pushed Yuuki away due to that fact - the picture now with Sara is totally contradicting his own values let's say...

example if someone comes to you that you ditrust his/her NATURE, I am not even talking personality, with a secret that concerns you, you will be very very hesitant to fall for that "secret" unless you can verify that "secret".

Here Zero goes one step further protecting this source> why? what's the importance?

Furthermore how Sara knew that Zero would shield her when Zero found out that secret?

If he has a plan about killing Sara at the end- then why he does not leave Kaname do it for him as it was the initial plan? what is stopping him from killing her now? he has the charges, he has witnessed the events, she changed people, she attacked Hanadagi, there is the witness of the guardian, she killed Ouri, he was at the ball>

if he wishes to dig in to her story > she took prisoners at her cell, Takuma can confirm it, she imprisoned the president of the pharmaceutical company and made him work for her, she changed the tablets into a poison> what is there to protect?

What is the importancy of Sara here that deserves such a protection over the crimes that she has committed? I do not see here the excuse that he wants to finish her last> why? so what changes in terms of Kaname?

I am pushing it because I suddenly do not comprehend the overall change of his own perceptions and more than this the certainty with which Sara declares that Zero shall fall like Takuma and will act as her hunter's hand is astonishing, can it be that he has also taken his own share here of blood? or tablets? on what is he feeding on all of this time?

besides that i can not see a reasonable explanation to all of these...furthermore why is he running like that to Yuuki to announce her the news about his tragedy? what's the point and he shall earn out of it?

juliet wrote:

mmm...throwing out his morals and shame on him?...How do you judge Kaname then? Zero considers Kaname "filth" and technically Kaname has killed more people than Sara: given a choice between Sara and Kaname...

I am sure that everyone will be judged according to his own actions, decisions and intentions at the end...and everyone is responsible for his own choices, there is no need to compare anything.

The discussion here is Zero that really surprises with his attitude.

Given the fact that he hates purebloods and he does not trust their nature > do we remember that he pushed Yuuki away due to that fact - the picture now with Sara is totally contradicting his own values let's say...

example if someone comes to you that you ditrust his/her NATURE, I am not even talking personality, with a secret that concerns you, you will be very very hesitant to fall for that "secret" unless you can verify that "secret".

Here Zero goes one step further protecting this source> why? what's the importance?

Furthermore how Sara knew that Zero would shield her when Zero found out that secret?

If he has a plan about killing Sara at the end- then why he does not leave Kaname do it for him as it was the initial plan? what is stopping him from killing her now? he has the charges, he has witnessed the events, she changed people, she attacked Hanadagi, there is the witness of the guardian, she killed Ouri, he was at the ball>

if he wishes to dig in to her story > she took prisoners at her cell, Takuma can confirm it, she imprisoned the president of the pharmaceutical company and made him work for her, she changed the tablets into a poison> what is there to protect?

What is the importancy of Sara here that deserves such a protection over the crimes that she has committed? I do not see here the excuse that he wants to finish her last> why? so what changes in terms of Kaname?

I am pushing it because I suddenly do not comprehend the overall change of his own perceptions and more than this the certainty with which Sara declares that Zero shall fall like Takuma and will act as her hunter's hand is astonishing, can it be that he has also taken his own share here of blood? or tablets? on what is he feeding on all of this time?

besides that i can not see a reasonable explanation to all of these...furthermore why is he running like that to Yuuki to announce her the news about his tragedy? what's the point and he shall earn out of it?

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Zero's change in attitude: Sara convinced Zero that Kaname (from afar) killed his parents and brother. What proof was Zero given?...Only Zero and Sara know. We do not see the whole interaction between Sara and Zero.

Is the accusation possible?: One of our sources that Rido changed the execution list to include Shizuka's lover is Kaname himself. Rido was still recovering at that time from Kaname's attack. I also question Rido's motive for changing the list: I thought he was obsessed over Juuri, not Shizuka.

My thoughts are that Rido did not have the motive or the means. Kaname could possibly be involved here.

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Why bother trusting/protecting Sara? Information. I'm still curious about what Kaname said to Aidou-dono before the execution. Aidou-dono looked almost peaceful before he died...maybe Kaname explained endgame....and maybe one of Sara's spiders was there.

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Kaname himself has shown little interest in killing Sara (so far). Yuuki said she would protect Sara if she stayed in one room. Zero now protecting Sara doesn't change much I think.

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Why keep Sara to kill last?...maybe Zero wants to use Sara as a weapon...lol...who knows. Also, having a pureblood ally is beneficial, something Zero told Kaien in chap 78.

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Zero telling Yuuki his beliefs about Kaname: If Zero was acting here, he is doing a good job. He looks convinced that Kaname is bad news and that Yuuki should not trust him. Zero gave his approval of Yume back in chap 46. If this new information that Sara said convinced Zero...he would want to take back that approval.

Also, Zero is playing chess now...trying to split the Kurans is a good move. But he seems too emotional there for this to be a reason. Most likely it is that he is upset for his family. In a sense, Yuuki is the last person alive he would consider family; he might be trying to save her from Kaname.

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What has Zero been feeding on?.....probably pills?...even if they were Sara's pills, Zero is probably the one person they would have the least effect on....he already broke his blood bond with Shizuka. Zero did see the effects of the pills firsthand in the forest with Yuuki and the two vamps in chap 77....so I'm guessing he takes other pills.

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Letting Kaname kill all the purebloods: Sara might have told Zero something of Kaname's plans. Killing all the PB's never made much sense for Kaname to do anyway....makes Yuuki more obvious a target with each PB who dies. Waiting around for Kaname to kill all PBs is most likely a fail.

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Why the urgency? Why would Zero act now? I have no idea. I'm waiting for chapter 79, with baited breath, like the rest of the VK fandom. I guess Kaname's next move, according to Sara, is HUGE one, probably something that scared Zero. OR, Zero is that angry at Kaname...

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@aya-chan: Revenge is a possible motive for Zero, I agree. Whether or not Zero is justified and thinking clearly....we need more manga to figure out. (I disagree with the SGK translation)

caela wrote:Zero's change in attitude: Sara convinced Zero that Kaname (from afar) killed his parents and brother. What proof was Zero given?...Only Zero and Sara know. We do not see the whole interaction between Sara and Zero.

Is the accusation possible?: One of our sources that Rido changed the execution list to include Shizuka's lover is Kaname himself. Rido was still recovering at that time from Kaname's attack. I also question Rido's motive for changing the list: I thought he was obsessed over Juuri, not Shizuka.

My thoughts are that Rido did not have the motive or the means. Kaname could possibly be involved here.

But how do you explain then shizuka blaming rido for the death of her lover and planning to get her vengence on him. for 4 years she planned revenge on rido not kaname. makes no sense unless it was rido who put her lover on the list which is later confirmed by Kaname, Ichiru and even Yagari hinted at it. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2166-17/vampire-knight/chapter-40.html

however kaname's sin is related to zero, i think all the proof points away from it being his parents death etc as stated above and, all the proof and hints we are getting point to the twin curse.

Kaname himself has shown little interest in killing Sara (so far). Yuuki said she would protect Sara if she stayed in one room. Zero now protecting Sara doesn't change much I think.

hmm...but zero's words are very telling. he says to yuuki he wont let her harm sara. harm doesnt always mean physcial harm it could be anything such as stopping her plans etc. yuuki has only stated she wouldnt let kaname kill sara, she's never stated she wouldnt stop her, and with her taking all the tablets away she has effectivly moved against sara, though not in a physical sense she is harming sara's plans. is see both their stances as being different here. seems more like zero wont let yuuki do anything against sara. question is why?

Why keep Sara to kill last?...maybe Zero wants to use Sara as a weapon...lol...who knows. Also, having a pureblood ally is beneficial, something Zero told Kaien in chap 78.

Yes i suppose having a pureblood ally is useful but why sara? why any pureblod for that matter on zero's part? he hates them and yet believes sara at the drop of a hat? seems a tad strange to me.

Also, Zero is playing chess now...trying to split the Kurans is a good move. But he seems too emotional there for this to be a reason. Most likely it is that he is upset for his family. In a sense, Yuuki is the last person alive he would consider family; he might be trying to save her from Kaname.

save her from kaname? could you please expand on what you mean by this? i'm curious to know.

Bloodredhead wrote:

caela wrote:Zero's change in attitude: Sara convinced Zero that Kaname (from afar) killed his parents and brother. What proof was Zero given?...Only Zero and Sara know. We do not see the whole interaction between Sara and Zero.

Is the accusation possible?: One of our sources that Rido changed the execution list to include Shizuka's lover is Kaname himself. Rido was still recovering at that time from Kaname's attack. I also question Rido's motive for changing the list: I thought he was obsessed over Juuri, not Shizuka.

My thoughts are that Rido did not have the motive or the means. Kaname could possibly be involved here.

But how do you explain then shizuka blaming rido for the death of her lover and planning to get her vengence on him. for 4 years she planned revenge on rido not kaname. makes no sense unless it was rido who put her lover on the list which is later confirmed by Kaname, Ichiru and even Yagari hinted at it. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2166-17/vampire-knight/chapter-40.html

however kaname's sin is related to zero, i think all the proof points away from it being his parents death etc as stated above and, all the proof and hints we are getting point to the twin curse.

Kaname himself has shown little interest in killing Sara (so far). Yuuki said she would protect Sara if she stayed in one room. Zero now protecting Sara doesn't change much I think.

hmm...but zero's words are very telling. he says to yuuki he wont let her harm sara. harm doesnt always mean physcial harm it could be anything such as stopping her plans etc. yuuki has only stated she wouldnt let kaname kill sara, she's never stated she wouldnt stop her, and with her taking all the tablets away she has effectivly moved against sara, though not in a physical sense she is harming sara's plans. is see both their stances as being different here. seems more like zero wont let yuuki do anything against sara. question is why?

Why keep Sara to kill last?...maybe Zero wants to use Sara as a weapon...lol...who knows. Also, having a pureblood ally is beneficial, something Zero told Kaien in chap 78.

Yes i suppose having a pureblood ally is useful but why sara? why any pureblod for that matter on zero's part? he hates them and yet believes sara at the drop of a hat? seems a tad strange to me.

Also, Zero is playing chess now...trying to split the Kurans is a good move. But he seems too emotional there for this to be a reason. Most likely it is that he is upset for his family. In a sense, Yuuki is the last person alive he would consider family; he might be trying to save her from Kaname.

save her from kaname? could you please expand on what you mean by this? i'm curious to know.

About what Zero is accusing Kaname of: If Zero was just accusing Kaname of messing/causing the hunter's twin curse, which happened thousands of years ago, I doubt there would be this much anger.

Also, I doubt a Chinese translator would confuse "blood-line," "clan" and "family". These are all separate Japanese Kanji/Chinese characters.

Zero is blaming the deaths of his parents, Ichiru's death and the forced change of Zero's from human to vampire, on Kaname.

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Is the accusation possible? As far as I am concerned, Kaname is smart enough to fool Shizuka. Also The girl was stuck in a cage for who knows how long. Its not like Shizuka was privy to all the latest information like Sara was.

All I know is that, the entire time I have been on all-up, I have always questioned even Rido's physical ability to change the list (his motive isn't that great either). Who ever changed the list is probably the enemy of the purebloods and Kaname, to me, is still a candidate. I suppose that means Sara is also a possibility. Rido was never written with enough brains to be a real possibility.

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About Zero trying to save Yuuki from Kaname: I meant it in a moral sense. Yuuki and Zero's dynamic has always been conditional (as opposed to Yume's unconditional dynamic): Yuuki protected Zero because of her sense of justice, and Zero protected Yuuki because of his respect of that sense of justice (yes, other reasons as well....but focusing on one reason for both for a reason).

Yuuki claims to be willing to be "tainted" by Kaname. So far, that statement of hers has not really been tested. If Yuuki accepts Kaname now, without verifying Zero's accusations as either true or false, it looks like Zero is willing to cut ties with Yuuki.


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@caela I’m really curious … do you think by that way you really defending your fave character?
Let me tell you then that you are doing a lousy job here. By trying to degrade Kaname AGAIN and trying to present him as the villain while whitewashing Sara to justify Zero’s alliance with her, the only that you accomplish is to provoke more harsh comments for Zero.

So … what goes around comes around

caela wrote: All I know is that, the entire time I have been on all-up, I have always questioned even Rido's physical ability to change the list (his motive isn't that great either). Who ever changed the list is probably the enemy of the purebloods and Kaname, to me, is still a candidate. I suppose that means Sara is also a possibility. Rido was never written with enough brains to be a real possibility.

I shall answer to your repeatedly question about Rido …

1. His motive that you are questioning: In the fanbook is stated that Rido changed the list in order to punish Shizuka cuz she escaped WITH her lover. And I adduce the fanbook cuz there are info which concern the whole story regardless the developments cuz it doesn’t follow the progress of the manga. Viz contains info that can’t be changed or else looses its credibility. I suppose that you are not implying that Hino is trolling us with her ONE and only fanbook cuz is another thing not to reveal something than stating false information.

Rido might have an obsession with Juuri but he couldn’t have her. Further more it is also stated that Rido was the one who imprisoned Shizuka since birth. What for; if - as you believe - he didn’t give a damn about Shizuka. Shizuka was his fiancée and regardless if he loved her or not (which he didn’t) the fact that Shizuka run off with her lover an ex-human level-d vampire wasn’t so pleasant for Rido’s ego I suppose … a being who had inferiority issues from Juuri’s rejection. Additional we do not know yet why Shizuka was his fiancée in the first place and lots of Shizuka’s circumstances in order to draw final conclusions of what purposes this engagement had been served.

2. About his physical ability to change the list: But no one ever said that he did it himself. It was Asato who gave the order to the former president of the HA. An order that it was Rido’s wish. Now the fact that he didn’t have a functional body doesn’t also mean that he wasn’t able to communicate. Did he or did he not possessed the body of that child (which more likely is his other son) in the first arc? Did he or did he not spoke with Shiki in his original body in an incomplete state? Because your memory seems that it doesn’t serve you here the scans >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2155-16/vampire-knight/chapter-29.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2155-17/vampire-knight/chapter-29.html
http://www.mangareader.net/104-2155-31/vampire-knight/chapter-29.html

And do not confuse the state of slumber with Rido’s state … as he himself says in that child’s form >> “He may not look it, but he is QUITE ALIVE (means Rido)… I was looking forward to meet you when you’ve grown up.”

Another point that it proves that Rido was able to communicate, act and taking decisions is the fact that he gave his blood to the former president of the HA as an exchange for the little favour that he asked i.e. to change the list.

So in other words Rido was able to communicate all these years that his body resurrecting … I hope this explanation to solve your wonder …

About the enemy of the PBs: Kaname’s words from the official volume >>
“I will make sure your life was not in vain. I shall destroy what you truly hated … THOSE who twisted OUR fate … the fate of the PBs.”

Isn’t obvious that Kaname is talking about Rido and the senate (THOSE) and not about himself? And what follows after Shizuka’s death? The extermination of Rido, Asato (who was planning to annihilate ALL the PBs) and senate. So Kaname’s wording reveals who were the enemies of the PBs … I suppose he couldn’t be talking about himself there nor he had any reason to lie…

Is the accusation possible? As far as I am concerned, Kaname is smart enough to fool Shizuka. Also The girl was stuck in a cage for who knows how long. Its not like Shizuka was privy to all the latest information like Sara was.

1. But we know for how long Shizuka was caged … since birth. Hm … seems that your knowledge is limited.
2. Also Shizuka lived for 4 years freely in Maria’s body. So she had more than enough time to investigate or to gather info of whom was responsible for her misfortune. Moreover Shizuka seemed well informed about Yuuki’s circumstances regarding her breeding. She knew that Yuuki grew up in a protected environment with much love and care as she also said to Yuuki, and moreover that Kaname’s soft spot was Yuuki. Do not also forget that Shizuka (in Maria’s body) was using the form of birds to observe and collect information. So seems like Shizuka had her way to be informed.

Therefore your arguments on which you are basing your theory (if not certainty) about Kaname as the responsible one for changing the list are stemming from false interpretations or lack of knowledge which can’t be supported from the FACTS as are stated both in the fanbook and the manga. Not to mention that you have discarded totally the info that Sara used untrue rumours to trap Zero … I remember vividly a few months ago to demonstrate an interpretation –not a translation- from the same source as FACT … mm how convenient …

But even if Sara used that to trap Zero this means that she used a total lie hence and Zero will be in a worse position that he is now when the truth will be disclosed. Also if Sara told him that his parents were killed from Kaname why he didn’t go to Yagari to derive more information? Note that Yagari is the one who investigated the murder of Zero’s parents for long. So I suppose if he wanted to confirm Sara’s revelation, or at least to check it, Yagari should have been the first one who should have talked to.

About Zero trying to save Yuuki from Kaname: I meant it in a moral sense. Yuuki and Zero's dynamic has always been conditional (as opposed to Yume's unconditional dynamic): Yuuki protected Zero because of her sense of justice, and Zero protected Yuuki because of his respect of that sense of justice (yes, other reasons as well....but focusing on one reason for both for a reason).

Give me a break! Zero has no right to interfere into Yume relationship using this lame approach. What is he to Yuuki according to his POV anyway?

But since you brought it up … let’s talk a bit about Zero’s motives …
- He decides to arrest Aido the moment he said > “Well then should I follow the two of them right away, or am I supposed to leave them alone by not following them just yet? And as I said that Kiryuu came towards me …”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-56087-3/vampire-knight/chapter-63.html

What triggered Zero’s reaction? IMO and judging also from his latest reactions was jealousy … thinking Yuuki and Kaname together lost it thus and burst on Aido. He disguised his action by telling that he captured Aido as the right hand of Kaname … and surprise-surprise cuz Sara’s was turning humans into vampires! Back then this was enough of a reason to suspect and accuse Kaname again while now …

- He rushed to deliver to Yuuki Kaname’s message –which btw framing Kaname – but when Yuuki didn’t eat Kaname’s lies and said that she still had the intention to go after Kaname and that she was glad that he didn’t forget her … he grabbed her arm! Back then you supported that Zero felt sorry for her … But surprise-surprise he did the same thing in this chapter when Yuuki said AGAIN that she’ll go to Kaname and that it wasn’t Kaname who attacked Hanadagi as many thought.
So now we can be surer that what triggered Zero’s reaction was jealousy … he had the same reactions to the same irritant! The point is though that Zero in chapter 76 didn’t know Sara’s “secret” yet, but seems like he had the same intention i.e. to prevent Yuuki from going after Kaname for his own personal reasons. Which leads me to think that now Sara offered him the perfect excuse to accuse Kaname … in other words he wanted to believe a proven evil PB cuz he is blinded from his jealousy mixed with his hatred for Kaname which goes long back…

So back to your interpretation about Zero’s motive … how noble is his stance; to use unconfirmed info to badmouth his rival and especially to Yuuki???

nina wrote:So back to your interpretation about Zero’s motive … how noble is his stance; to use unconfirmed info to badmouth his rival and especially to Yuuki???

I don't have proof that Zero confirmed the accusation, and you don't have proof that he didn't confirm Sara's story. Badmouthing is only badmouthing if not confirmed. And yes, Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Also the scans and proof you provided did not show any activity of Rido's until close to the time he attacked he Academy. Even Rido's second son was given birth to about 15-20 years prior to the Academy attack (noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

Shiki was born 38-39 human years ago (again, noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There was plenty of time before the Kaname attack on Rido to wish to see Shiki grown up.

Rido needs means, motive and opportunity. You gave no solid proof of any of the three.

(Also, what proof is there that Kaname is incapable of lying? Yuuki even called him a liar: chap 66: "You're an animal, also fragile and a liar")

caela wrote:

nina wrote:So back to your interpretation about Zero’s motive … how noble is his stance; to use unconfirmed info to badmouth his rival and especially to Yuuki???

I don't have proof that Zero confirmed the accusation, and you don't have proof that he didn't confirm Sara's story. Badmouthing is only badmouthing if not confirmed. And yes, Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Also the scans and proof you provided did not show any activity of Rido's until close to the time he attacked he Academy. Even Rido's second son was given birth to about 15-20 years prior to the Academy attack (noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

Shiki was born 38-39 human years ago (again, noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There was plenty of time before the Kaname attack on Rido to wish to see Shiki grown up.

Rido needs means, motive and opportunity. You gave no solid proof of any of the three.

(Also, what proof is there that Kaname is incapable of lying? Yuuki even called him a liar: chap 66: "You're an animal, also fragile and a liar")

considering nina's evidence wasnt enough here's some more. https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1084-kaname-sin#24335

this is really all confusing,i think that before you all say such things,we have to wait till kaname says his secrets or finally ends with sara and hino-sensei finally reveals the thruth

caela wrote: I don't have proof that Zero confirmed the accusation, and you don't have proof that he didn't confirm Sara's story.

I stated what we saw … Did we see Zero to confirm it? No. So till it’s proven that he confirmed Sara’s “revelation” Zero thus far he didn’t. So I’m stating a fact you are stating a hypothesis.

Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Prove it! Provide the scan or the statement that says Rido wasn’t the one who changed the list. So again I’m stating a fact you are providing a prediction that is totally contradictory with what we know.

Also the scans and proof you provided did not show any activity of Rido's until close to the time he attacked he Academy.

Then provide the scan that says Rido couldn’t talk 4 years before. I proved that Rido could talk, think, move and posses another body in his incomplete state. Till you prove otherwise my proofs are more solid than your unbacked hypothesis.

Even Rido's second son was given birth to about 15-20 years prior to the Academy attack (noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

This is a theory … a very possible theory but still a theory. In the manga or in the fanbook it’s never stated. And I never brought up the existence of Rido’s second child as a proof that he was functional just because of that theory

Rido needs means, motive and opportunity.

He had the motive since his prisoner Shizuka escaped … he had the means through Asato and the HA … he had the opportunity since he was ALIVE during the time of his resurrection.

Whereas where are the means and the opportunity for Kaname? Where are your proofs?

(Also, what proof is there that Kaname is incapable of lying? Yuuki even called him a liar: chap 66: "You're an animal, also fragile and a liar")

Well prove then that Kaname lied to himself or to a dying PB hahaha …

You gave no solid proof of any of the three.

And you provided PROOFS???? From where? From your imagination?
The above quotes are enough for everyone to see who provided proofs and who pure imagination.

If the statements from the manga and the fanbook aren’t proofs then what is? Your statements?
Let me sum-up your interpretations of the story thus far…
1. Zero was raped from Shizuka.
2. Yume is over.
3. Zero became a PB after he drank from Yuuki cuz Yuuki’s blood has the power to make lower ranked vampires into PBs! The proof of that; > Zero’s flying!!!!
4. And now you are certain that Kaname changed the list without even knowing what Sara told Zero. Note that in the last page says > what is Kaname’s sin? Which means that it hasn’t revealed yet but you are stating it as a FACT. And on top of that Zero confirmed it! With who? His new buddy Sara?

Hahaha … I’ll repeat myself. What goes around comes around.

Zero's change in attitude: Sara convinced Zero that Kaname (from afar) killed his parents and brother. What proof was Zero given?...Only Zero and Sara know. We do not see the whole interaction between Sara and Zero. Is the accusation possible?: One of our sources that Rido changed the execution list to include Shizuka's lover is Kaname himself. Rido was still recovering at that time from Kaname's attack. I also question Rido's motive for changing the list: I thought he was obsessed over Juuri, not Shizuka. My thoughts are that Rido did not have the motive or the means. Kaname could possibly be involved here.

The only way for Sara to provide solid evidence for what you claim to be Kaname’s sin (changing the hunters list himself) would be to have Zero drink her blood and that in the case that her blood would contain Takuma’s blood and that again in case Takuma had been a witnessed to the so called crime that would reveal Kaname’s interference in the Kiruy’s tragedy. Non?

What kind of other proof could she ever provide in a private discussion with Zero? > if Kaname’s sin again is linked to the tragedy of the Kiruy’s and also if that is truth and if she did not provided a twisted appeal of reality there….

For now since I do not see any proofs, I shall skip it, I clearly believe that Zero acts emotionally...and there are no proofs to be found, perhaps that's why he checks back with Kaien but it seems that Kaien can not help him much....

Why bother trusting/protecting Sara? Information. I'm still curious about what Kaname said to Aidou-dono before the execution. Aidou-dono looked almost peaceful before he died...maybe Kaname explained endgame....and maybe one of Sara's spiders was there.

I can agree that he can be hooked on information but in this case the verdict for him is not that good since in such a time of catastrophy and ultimate need, Zero is protecting Sara just in order to get information while she goes on with her plan, notice here what her plan is…

What I want…is pathetic but excellent servants who cannot escape my clutch even if they fight…lovely little birds who keep singing around me, vampires all over the world who serve me, puppets who don’t bore me, and…a convenient weapon that can kill purebloods. I can say that child is the fruition of Kaname’s “great sin”.

Sara has no other use for Zero apart from being her puppet but also her weapon that shall kill all purebloods for her> she wants to turn him into a criminal taking advantage over his own sensitive buttons and weaknesses …So she opens him the way to doom and he follows it. And what I mean to say with these is that Zero’s decision to protect Sara in reality turns against himself> but he has not comprehend well that part yet. So since she wants to manipulate him and make him kill on her behalf, thus her intentions are sick, how can her sayings be honest? Its clear that she shall use all information that she may have to make him a pawn that shall move against Kaname and even Yuuki. So in that effort to make him a pawn, the tragic reality is that Zero assists her.

Kaname himself has shown little interest in killing Sara (so far). Yuuki said she would protect Sara if she stayed in one room. Zero now protecting Sara doesn't change much I think.

But we are not talking about Yuuki, we are talking about Zero who so indifferently had decided a few chapters back that Kaname’s plan suited his needs and tastes…more than this now the list with Sara’s crimes only seems to expand after the latest incidents at the academy> to all of these Zero replies that he shall not allow to Yuuki (or anyone in extension) to touch this woman? The difference here is dramatic and ironic> how a vampire hunter who is supposed to hate purebloods and rejected his own love due to her pureblood nature, now protects the same nature burden with multiple crimes…and even says to his supposed love that he shall not allow her to touch that unknown to him pureblood who turned the students to bloodthirsty vampires… there is no logical explanation here, what is the excused his personal drama that after all it belongs to the past while he leaves another drama to enroll at the present time?

even if they were Sara's pills, Zero is probably the one person they would have the least effect on....he already broke his blood bond with Shizuka. Zero did see the effects of the pills firsthand in the forest with Yuuki and the two vamps in chap 77....so I'm guessing he takes other pills.

Not so sure about the effects that Sara’s pills could have on Zero>

Perhaps Kuran’s blood that is inside him can offer him a protection but for how much and for how long? Would that “immunity” be infinite for example in case he was taking these tablets for a long period of time? Furthermore, Zero can be a powerful hunter but he cannot compete with pureblood> he neither makes spells or breaks them, so I guess that Sara could charm him with the easiness that Hanadagi charmed Aido-dono for example.
I do not insist here since there are no solid evidence here apart from the thought that since Sara has substituted the production of pills in the factory and these pills have been distributed normally, eventually it should have been a matter of time for Zero to get the tables and take them> after all his need for tablets and how much he needs them to sustain his hunger had been pictured in the past chapters where he had almost swallowed a bottle> so he is a heavy user.
But if he is not affected from the tablets, and he has neither taken Sara’s blood this only makes him seem originally inexcusable into not comprehending Sara’s plan here. Apparently, whatever differences he has with Kaname, he can resolve it later, when Sara will be out of the way, but…something in the way of his thinking blocks him from defining which are the right priorities right now so he ends up playing her game there.

Letting Kaname kill all the purebloods: Sara might have told Zero something of Kaname's plans. Killing all the PB's never made much sense for Kaname to do anyway....makes Yuuki more obvious a target with each PB who dies. Waiting around for Kaname to kill all PBs is most likely a fail.

I agree on this because it seems that Sara’s intention is to kill purebloods> that also reminds me Asato here who also wanted to exterminate purebloods and thus she recruits Zero on the task which means that she is not buying Kaname’s fairytale about exterminating all purebloods also, if that was the case perhaps she could skip Zero for now and save him for the end> I think that she brings him now in the game because she realizes that Kaname’s plan is a) approaching her and she needs to better shield herself b) she understands that Kaname’s intentions wont serve her that far as she wants to drag it since besides Kaname and even besides Yuuki, more purebloods can claim authority and power. So she is bringing her pawn into the game, that shall keep her safe to the end.

Kaname is not naïve and since Sara held Takuma then he knew that a great part of his “secrets” would be revealed…that means that perhaps he needed time to distract Sara for a little while so that she would not use Zero so early in the game> this could earn him time while he was preparing the scene for something bigger…or perhaps the final act that would bring down all masks as we saw that many wrong doings, mistakes and intentions are getting exposed with his departure.

Perhaps also Kaname’s appearance at the academy at that time has also to do with that “secret” that is exposed to Yuuki but perhaps his primary target is not Yuuki but Zero since if Zero does not pick up himself there and gives in hate, he can even harm Yuuki and later on both humans and vampires by protecting Sara, but of course until we find out they are all food for our thought.

And yes, Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

The list with manga pages, quotes and even extracts from the fanbook that both Nina and Blood provided are the clear answer to your claim that Rido did not change the list. This is confirmed from Shizuka, Ichirou that even tried to kill Rido, Maria that narrated to Zero all the events, and the fanbook’s canon descriptions of the story that are not describing a character’s POV but are narrations.
It neither makes sense to me Rido to be changing the list in that state or even having a communication with the council but Rido could transfer to bodies and Rido even at this current moment of the manga survived two hunter weapons (Artemis, Bloody Rose) and was able to do it through drops of blood, preserving an attachment to Kaname. Under this view, we cannot define the extends and the powers of the purebloods, as Aido had stated it “ they are the only ones that know them”. This statement is an open door to all possibilities that of course in a vague way justify Rido’s influence back at the council at a time period that many things were going on and Asato well co-operated with Rido by aiding him to restore his body – but his spirit seems unaffected - through blood in order to replace Kaname when the time would come.

So I wont buy the hunters list since there are no proofs yet and of course Sara’s ambitions are not proofs, totally the contrary I can say…plus this does not excuse again Takuma’s stance; Takuma would not shield a murderer, we saw him standing between Kaname and Shiki’s body while his friend was possessed by Rido in the risk of his life> and killed his own grandfather putting ideals above relationships> would he accept the murder of a whole family and be the best friend of a murderer?

It seems though that Zero has really has started to fall like Sara said.

caela wrote:

nina wrote:So back to your interpretation about Zero’s motive … how noble is his stance; to use unconfirmed info to badmouth his rival and especially to Yuuki???

I don't have proof that Zero confirmed the accusation, and you don't have proof that he didn't confirm Sara's story. Badmouthing is only badmouthing if not confirmed. And yes, Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Also the scans and proof you provided did not show any activity of Rido's until close to the time he attacked he Academy. Even Rido's second son was given birth to about 15-20 years prior to the Academy attack (noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

Shiki was born 38-39 human years ago (again, noble vampires age at half-speed of human aging, during their youth). There was plenty of time before the Kaname attack on Rido to wish to see Shiki grown up.

Rido needs means, motive and opportunity. You gave no solid proof of any of the three.

(Also, what proof is there that Kaname is incapable of lying? Yuuki even called him a liar: chap 66: "You're an animal, also fragile and a liar")

Sara is trying to get Zero to her side since the start of the second arc . An example is shown during chapter 58 . During the time Sara was trying to get as student in a girls Academy . This is what Sara told Zero then :

from Chap. 58 , vol. 12 , Shojo Beat , Viz ed.

Zero was taking Bloody Rose from his jacket to point Sara .

Sara : " Too bad ... that's a no - no hunter society puppy . I revealed my identity , and we shared blood . They understood and agreed ... In return I promise to take care of them forever ... You don't have the authority to punish us for doing so . Why do you hunt elsewhere ? Those eyes ... eyes that crave killing me ... a pureblood ... You and those around you don't seem to notice ... But ... you reek of pureblood blood ... I don't know how much blood you received ... But I'm sorry that you were abandoned ... I'll be willing to lend a helping hand when you have nowhere to go to , puppy . "

Zero : " Get out of my sight , pureblood ... you disgust me . "

Sara had made clear she wants to be Vampire Queen . For this her smarts are not enough . She knows she is weaker than most purebloods in the physical sense . She had identify as weakness her lack of power to use an anti - vampire weapon . The utility to use a person with that ability as her weapon to do her deeds . She wants for her side the strongest person with that ability . She discovered Zero as a vampire hunter / vampire who drank pureblood blood . Who was " discarted / abandoned " by his previous pureblood masters .

After several trials of thinking how she could make Zero wnet to her side . Sara discover several of Zero's weakness . One that at least one of the purebloods who give him her blood was Yuuki . Maybe because of Yuuki's blood scent . And her closeness to Zero . The other that he hates Kaname Kuran the most . Using this information ; she could reveal a thing about Kaname's past that involved Zero . a secret of Kaname's great sin that affected all the life of Zero and his family . She now is almost sure she got Zero working as her " puppy pet " / White Knight . This time Zero is willing to cooperate for her because his enemy enemy is an ally . Zero thinks he could escape Sara's side at any time he wants .


***********************


Only to make it clear . As probably the first who mentioned the 1 vampire year for every 2 human years aging theory . Senri Shiki was 16 vampire years during the first arc time frame . ( As told in sidenote from Hino . Chapter 23 , vol. 5 , Viz ed. ) This made Senri around 32 - 33 human years old during the start of the first arc . . His half brother ( the kid without a name from chapters 25 - 29 ) appears to have 4 to 5 vampire years old . This would made him between 8 to 11 human years old . Probably Rido get pregnant his mother a little before ( maybe between 10 to 12 human years ) he attacked the Kuran Manor . 10 years from the start of V. K. events of the first arc .

Rido's body was a mess after Kaname turn him into little pieces with his magic . He required a ton of blood to regenerate . Without access to the Kuran purebloods' blood that could make heal faster . But this doesn't make Rido completely incommunicated . Most probably he could communicate with Asato the same way he is doing with Kaname now . As a spirit kind of presence . He could perfectly tell Asato what to do to help him . Make Asato arrangment a place for him to regenerate . Give him any orders he could in exchange of giving little bits of his blood as his body started to regenerate . So it wasn't impossible to Rido to order Asato making any arragments with the Vampire Hunter Association President ( as changing the hunters list ) . As exchange for giving the President a bit of pureblood blood .

caela wrote: Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Rido was not the one who wrote the name on the list himself, but he was the one who ordered to the senate to get rid of shizuka's servant.



and you can see better in this one

There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

You try the big finger here. So, in your logic, if rido did not had any activity before changing the list means he did not change it?
rido was the one who ordered to the senate to get rid of shizuka's lover. evidence sustained by manga and fanbook .
If the fanbook and manga itself aren't proves to you then I do not know what is.

I suggest you to re-read manga/fanbook and then accuse others for not bringing proofs for their words. we yume demonstrate you that rido was the one responsable for zero's drama, but you did not show an evidence/facts which proved otherwise.

This is definetely a very interesting chapter.

* Sarah's words: It's obvious that she has been telling lies to get Zero on her side. He is obviously her weapon, and she thinks he will fall like Takuma. She stated before that she is interested in beings like him. (Obviously for killing enemies she can't kill herself: purebloods, most likely Kaname, since he is the biggest threat for here plans to become queen) However there must be some parts of truth in what she told Zero.
-Zero is not completely dumb: she must've had at least some convinvcing arguments to make him believe her story.
-Seeing Zero's reaction last chapter. He smirked. He probably didn't believe what she said (so he smirked), until she give him some arguments that at least sound credable.
- We've seen from Takuma's memories that Kaname was at least planning something.

----> I don't really think Kaname has done something that far in the past (like the twin curse) to make Zero this angry, he reacted extremely emotional. However Sarah did say her words were lies., so K is probably not the cause of Zero's trouble directly. I do believe he must be involved somehow. (Also because he always seemd to feel guilty about something...we don't know what. And there's Sarah's words that Zero was Kaname's biggest sin...)


* Zero's reaction: I've seen many people surprised by his change of attitude, so I think it's not that weird to say that he did not completely change all of his believes. I think that putting Zero in the criminal-corner with Sara would be rather extreme. Sara is still our villain.

- Then why does he act this way? Even if he doesn't fully believe her words, He'd want to check them. It is still about the murder of his family. You don't just ignore such information, even if there's a possibilty that it's false.
- We see him going to Kaien. To check the information? We see him indeed asking if Kaien knew about his plans. (Wich is not so weird because Kaien knew about Yuuki too). While we can clearly see that Kaien only knew about Yuuki (nothing else) and his words refer to that, his words must be full of duplicity to Zero. Anyways, just to be sure, he won't trust Kaien anymore.
-His face when Yagari spoke to him. Could be only because he mentioned Kaname. But maybe he's heard of Yagari' plans (using Zero and Yuuki). If that is true he must have the feeling that everyone is lying to him.
---> Now considering this, it wouldn't be weird for him to protect his source of information, at least until he is sure of what is true and what not. In his POV it might be the only way to find out the truth. This doesn't mean that he'll go all the way bad, or throw all of his believes aside.
----> Also about the theory that Zero is manipulating Yuuki, by badmouthing Kaname. Seriously? He hears more information about the killing of his family, and the first thing he'd do would be badmouthing Kaname to win his girl over?? I mean, it's clear that this doesn't make any sense at all (Even if you don't consider the part in that in that Zero's not a manipulator/liar, he's always been more straightforward). And telling Yuuki about it is not that weird, not out of the blue, since she started talking about it!!
-----> Also His doubt can still be seen when he mentions Yuuki's name, wich he has avoided doing so since a very long time! He oviously doenst blame every vampire for his trouble. It seems that he somehow still trusts Yuuki. But everything will depend ofcourse on her reaction next chapter.
-----> Zero is part of the association. He's still perfectly able to get his hands on the normal bloodtablets I'd think. (Especially since they seems to know everything that's been going on




Okey these are the diffucult parts, wich everyone has been arguing about (so I took those on first)

- I'm curious to see why Kaname is at the Academy? I hope that he'll reveal the real truth next chapeter. I wonder if he's there to kill Sara.
- Where are Ruka and Kain? They must be doing something. I'm sure they're not just hanging around.
- Shiki. Wow he's really loyal to Takuma. Maybe he is hoping that he can free Takuma from Sarah's influence. I think we should maybe credit Shiki more. He has Kuran blood, he should be able to withstand Sarah's influence more.(And ofcourse Rima will be on the lookout for him)
- The servant-girl: It's good that she's out of Sarah's claws. I hope that she can now reveal why she was imprisoned by Sarah.
-Maria's remark: maybe a hit towards a zero-yuuki biting scene? If that was not a hint to yuuki..(go on and have some hot bloody-biting scenes LOL) An Yuuki does not dismiss the idea. It's just Zero's call to make.
-I'm very curious about Yuuki's reaction to Kaname (and if Kaname will even deny the facts since he's been trying to push her away for her own good for a while now). She still believes in him, but she's also not happy abou his plans and she wishes to stop him.
-I'm guesing there will be new blood-tablets with Yuuki's blood? sounds interesting.



Did I forget some points? I probably have, LOl. What a chapter, what a chapter...

Well , (a late) merry christmas everyone.
I hope we can all be happy with the new chapter and keep some of the Christmas spirit in discussing it.

@ aya-chan thanks for sharing the scans!

Annelliez wrote: Zero's reaction: I've seen many people surprised by his change of attitude, so I think it's not that weird to say that he did not completely change all of his believes. I think that putting Zero in the criminal-corner with Sara would be rather extreme. Sara is still our villain.

- Then why does he act this way? Even if he doesn't fully believe her words, He'd want to check them. It is still about the murder of his family. You don't just ignore such information, even if there's a possibilty that it's false.
- We see him going to Kaien. To check the information? We see him indeed asking if Kaien knew about his plans. (Wich is not so weird because Kaien knew about Yuuki too). While we can clearly see that Kaien only knew about Yuuki (nothing else) and his words refer to that, his words must be full of duplicity to Zero. Anyways, just to be sure, he won't trust Kaien anymore.

No one has put Zero in a position of a criminal like Sara. However he placed himself on Sara’s side i.e. on a criminal’s side with his actions and words.
I agree that whatever Sara told him and concerns his family, must be convincing or at least quite specious. Though IMO Zero doesn’t need too much persuasion to believe that Kaname is filthy as he said or responsible for any kind of evilness. He repeatedly has said that Kaname is the worst and his hatred for him is notorious. And this is what Sara made full of use … his weakness became Sara’s strength.

Also I beg to differ that Zero didn’t fully believed her. His stance shows that he did, something that is reinforced from Sara’s certainty that she gained the weapon she wanted.
I do not see his question to Kaien about Kaname’s plan as an attempt to confirm Sara’s revelation cuz what Kaname’s current plan may have to do with his family drama? It is a finished issue isn’t it?
Moreover Yagari was more suitable to ask about that cuz Yagari logically knows more than Kaien since it was he who investigated his parents’ murder lengthily and deeply. Not to mention that Zero trusts Yagari more than Kaien. At least if I was in his place I would have chosen Yagari for the specific topic.

Thus I think that Zero wasn’t seeking for confirmation asking Kaien about Kaname’s plan but perhaps cuz this is Sara’s question.??? In the previous chapters Zero was almost certain that Kaname is planning to annihilate all the PBs and he didn’t show further interest about it. On the other hand Sara’s main concern was and still is, Kaname’s intentions, moves, and thoughts. That’s why she captured Takuma in the first place. Now suddenly Zero seeking for information!? So how impossible is that Zero is already working for Sara’s sake thus and went to Kaien who was closer to Kaname in the past and not to Yagari?
Cuz logically the relations are >>
Kaien ---> closer to Kaname so he may have a better idea of what Kaname is planning to do.
Yagari ---> more trustable (from Zero’s POV) and the most suitable to ask about his parents murder; especially if what Sara told him had to do with that incident.

-His face when Yagari spoke to him. Could be only because he mentioned Kaname. But maybe he's heard of Yagari' plans (using Zero and Yuuki). If that is true he must have the feeling that everyone is lying to him.

But Yagari doesn’t hide from Zero his “order” to stay close to Yuuki as much as possible.
Furthermore this was his mission from the beginning. I don’t remember to be against it especially after the re-opening of the NC. Whereas every time that Kaname’s name came up he reacts.
Yagari says >>

Yagari: Just have a few words with the association president and return to the academy as soon as you can, to continue keeping an eye on Yuuki Kuran. And do NOT stand in the way of Kaname Kuran.

>> Do not stand in the way of Kaname Kuran! < this is the last line of Yagari thus I think Zero’s reaction stems from that line. And if Zero is already Sara’s pawn/weapon – as it seems from his stance later at the academy – then Yagari’s order/will, comes in contrast with what Zero may want to do after Sara’s revelation >> to kill Kaname or stop him from harming Sara!

Also about the theory that Zero is manipulating Yuuki, by badmouthing Kaname. Seriously? He hears more information about the killing of his family, and the first thing he'd do would be badmouthing Kaname to win his girl over?? I mean, it's clear that this doesn't make any sense at all (Even if you don't consider the part in that in that Zero's not a manipulator/liar, he's always been more straightforward). And telling Yuuki about it is not that weird, not out of the blue, since she started talking about it!!

I think you are referring to me … if yes then you need to re-read what I wrote.
I never theorized that Zero is manipulating Yuuki. Manipulation contains deception/lies and since I believe that Zero has ate Sara’s claims then what he told to Yuuki from his POV was the truth.
Furthermore Zero has shown prior he learns Sara’s claims the same reaction to the same irritant (I won’t repeat myself ... see my previous post). So now more stimulated from the recent “revelations” burst!

And yes she started talking about Kaname and moreover defending him by repeating to Zero what Hanadagi’s guard said! And what Zero did? He totally discarded what he heard (probably knocked down the servant) cuz his preconception about Kaname doesn’t allow him to see nothing else. His hatred and probably his jealousy have blinded him …

But if my opinion is wrong then which is his motive huh? To protect Yuuki from Kaname’s evilness? Or to save Yuuki’s pureness? Haha …

Maria's remark: maybe a hit towards a zero-yuuki biting scene? If that was not a hint to yuuki..(go on and have some hot bloody-biting scenes LOL) An Yuuki does not dismiss the idea. It's just Zero's call to make.

Mmm considering Zero’s stance (his alliance with Sara even if is temporarily) and Yuuki’s statement that she won’t offer her blood to Zero I find it difficult to happen. Previously yes … Maria or Yuuki seemed to be the most possible candidates to feed Zero but right now I think Sara might be more possible.

- Sara offered her blood in the past as well and taking under consideration her certainty that Zero will fall like Takuma (who is “addicted” to Sara’s blood), I can’t exclude this possibility. Sara for sure wants to bind Zero.
- Sara knows that Zero is hungry >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/28
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/29
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/77/27

I don’t think that all these scenes were for nothing considering that thus far Sara’s plan about Zero runs smoothly!

If anybody here knows Spanish . Here is the link for full scanlated chapter 78 in HD . Version by memos Free Time :

http://submanga.com/Vampire_Knight/78/140445

For some reason I didn't find full english scanlated versions yet.

mariangie wrote:If anybody here knows Spanish . Here is the link for full scanlated chapter 78 in HD . Version by memos Free Time :

http://submanga.com/Vampire_Knight/78/140445

For some reason I didn't find full english scanlated versions yet.

Muchas gracias!! I will start reading immediatly ( I hope I know every word^^ I only learned it in school^^)

nina wrote:@ aya-chan thanks for sharing the scans!

Annelliez wrote: Zero's reaction: I've seen many people surprised by his change of attitude, so I think it's not that weird to say that he did not completely change all of his believes. I think that putting Zero in the criminal-corner with Sara would be rather extreme. Sara is still our villain.

- Then why does he act this way? Even if he doesn't fully believe her words, He'd want to check them. It is still about the murder of his family. You don't just ignore such information, even if there's a possibilty that it's false.
- We see him going to Kaien. To check the information? We see him indeed asking if Kaien knew about his plans. (Wich is not so weird because Kaien knew about Yuuki too). While we can clearly see that Kaien only knew about Yuuki (nothing else) and his words refer to that, his words must be full of duplicity to Zero. Anyways, just to be sure, he won't trust Kaien anymore.

No one has put Zero in a position of a criminal like Sara. However he placed himself on Sara’s side i.e. on a criminal’s side with his actions and words.
I agree that whatever Sara told him and concerns his family, must be convincing or at least quite specious. Though IMO Zero doesn’t need too much persuasion to believe that Kaname is filthy as he said or responsible for any kind of evilness. He repeatedly has said that Kaname is the worst and his hatred for him is notorious. And this is what Sara made full of use … his weakness became Sara’s strength.

Also I beg to differ that Zero didn’t fully believed her. His stance shows that he did, something that is reinforced from Sara’s certainty that she gained the weapon she wanted.
I do not see his question to Kaien about Kaname’s plan as an attempt to confirm Sara’s revelation cuz what Kaname’s current plan may have to do with his family drama? It is a finished issue isn’t it?
Moreover Yagari was more suitable to ask about that cuz Yagari logically knows more than Kaien since it was he who investigated his parents’ murder lengthily and deeply. Not to mention that Zero trusts Yagari more than Kaien. At least if I was in his place I would have chosen Yagari for the specific topic.

Thus I think that Zero wasn’t seeking for confirmation asking Kaien about Kaname’s plan but perhaps cuz this is Sara’s question.??? In the previous chapters Zero was almost certain that Kaname is planning to annihilate all the PBs and he didn’t show further interest about it. On the other hand Sara’s main concern was and still is, Kaname’s intentions, moves, and thoughts. That’s why she captured Takuma in the first place. Now suddenly Zero seeking for information!? So how impossible is that Zero is already working for Sara’s sake thus and went to Kaien who was closer to Kaname in the past and not to Yagari?
Cuz logically the relations are >>
Kaien ---> closer to Kaname so he may have a better idea of what Kaname is planning to do.
Yagari ---> more trustable (from Zero’s POV) and the most suitable to ask about his parents murder; especially if what Sara told him had to do with that incident.

-His face when Yagari spoke to him. Could be only because he mentioned Kaname. But maybe he's heard of Yagari' plans (using Zero and Yuuki). If that is true he must have the feeling that everyone is lying to him.

But Yagari doesn’t hide from Zero his “order” to stay close to Yuuki as much as possible.
Furthermore this was his mission from the beginning. I don’t remember to be against it especially after the re-opening of the NC. Whereas every time that Kaname’s name came up he reacts.
Yagari says >>

Yagari: Just have a few words with the association president and return to the academy as soon as you can, to continue keeping an eye on Yuuki Kuran. And do NOT stand in the way of Kaname Kuran.

>> Do not stand in the way of Kaname Kuran! < this is the last line of Yagari thus I think Zero’s reaction stems from that line. And if Zero is already Sara’s pawn/weapon – as it seems from his stance later at the academy – then Yagari’s order/will, comes in contrast with what Zero may want to do after Sara’s revelation >> to kill Kaname or stop him from harming Sara!

Also about the theory that Zero is manipulating Yuuki, by badmouthing Kaname. Seriously? He hears more information about the killing of his family, and the first thing he'd do would be badmouthing Kaname to win his girl over?? I mean, it's clear that this doesn't make any sense at all (Even if you don't consider the part in that in that Zero's not a manipulator/liar, he's always been more straightforward). And telling Yuuki about it is not that weird, not out of the blue, since she started talking about it!!

I think you are referring to me … if yes then you need to re-read what I wrote.
I never theorized that Zero is manipulating Yuuki. Manipulation contains deception/lies and since I believe that Zero has ate Sara’s claims then what he told to Yuuki from his POV was the truth.
Furthermore Zero has shown prior he learns Sara’s claims the same reaction to the same irritant (I won’t repeat myself ... see my previous post). So now more stimulated from the recent “revelations” burst!

And yes she started talking about Kaname and moreover defending him by repeating to Zero what Hanadagi’s guard said! And what Zero did? He totally discarded what he heard (probably knocked down the servant) cuz his preconception about Kaname doesn’t allow him to see nothing else. His hatred and probably his jealousy have blinded him …

But if my opinion is wrong then which is his motive huh? To protect Yuuki from Kaname’s evilness? Or to save Yuuki’s pureness? Haha …

Maria's remark: maybe a hit towards a zero-yuuki biting scene? If that was not a hint to yuuki..(go on and have some hot bloody-biting scenes LOL) An Yuuki does not dismiss the idea. It's just Zero's call to make.

Mmm considering Zero’s stance (his alliance with Sara even if is temporarily) and Yuuki’s statement that she won’t offer her blood to Zero I find it difficult to happen. Previously yes … Maria or Yuuki seemed to be the most possible candidates to feed Zero but right now I think Sara might be more possible.

- Sara offered her blood in the past as well and taking under consideration her certainty that Zero will fall like Takuma (who is “addicted” to Sara’s blood), I can’t exclude this possibility. Sara for sure wants to bind Zero.
- Sara knows that Zero is hungry >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/28
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/72/29
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/77/27

I don’t think that all these scenes were for nothing considering that thus far Sara’s plan about Zero runs smoothly!

- Hmm I think your resoning makes sense, but it all starts with the idea that Zero will fight on Sarah's side.
That's why I said we don't need to put him into a corner with Sara. Like everyoneone said it is totally against his values. But if he feels like he might only get the truth form her, then he will want to at least protect his information source. For example to win time. To find out if it really is true (Zero is not dumb, even if he lashed out to Yuuki, at least some part of him will have some doubt) or maybe win time. Anyways getting his source killed, would be unfurtunate. That does not mean, he'll really support her, go spying for her etc. (Also Sara would never ask dircetly 'go spy for me', she would manipulate people in asking things and then she'd let some of her creepy spiders listen...She's more behind-the-back you know.)
- Indeed Zero wouldn't need much. But he has been manipulated before. And he's not blaming all vampires. The whole-name thing with yuukiç was there, and now in this particular chapter.that does not mean nothing.
- Hmm, I see for the murder of his parents Yagari would know more.but.. Kaien could possibly know more from K.(Like the situation with Yuuki, Kaien knew about it). Indeed he trusts Yagari, but that's why he wouldn't ask. Yagari would never hold back any information like that. While Kaien has already done that. The difference is that that time it was for Yuuki's best interest...But then again he never really trusted Kaien when it came to vampire matters.
Sarah seems to have told him K had everything to do with his family, so it's not weird for Zero to ask If Kaien knew about Kaname's plans, like he knew about his plans with Yuuki.
- Zero's job was to make sure that nothing went wrong in the night class, not being close to Yuuki. I was talking about the meeting where Yagari said they could use the relation of Yuuki and Zero to keep both of them 'calm'. If Zero knew about that (And he trusts Yagari so much!).....But anyways I said this could be an extra reason to look that way...it's just speculation. Ofcourse it had a lot to do with Kaname being mentioned. Only I don't think it's because of Srah's plans. ''Do Nothing'' After he heard those lies, he must not want to do 'just nothing'.

- I don't think I ment you on that comment xD I quickly went to the prvious posts, and I read it somewhere in a post?. It was just my point that Zero suddenly revealing what he 'knows' was no deliberate move. Yuuki saying that Kaname was innnocent after all (or something like that) must've been the last drop (I don't even know if this expression is used in english, but you know what I mean?). I think sometimes we (we all) seek to much (like motives) behind simple emotional reactions. These are all humans (or vampires but you get the point ), not Robots.

- Yuuki did not mind giving her blood. It's not for her own sake that she doesn't but out of repect for Zero. So if he only asks for it...and many hints have been coming up. I don't think he would ever take blood form sara. I think he'd rather starve xD Remember when he had to drink Kaname's blood. He only did it not to hurt Yuuki. Never for himself. Anyways, here I was just cheering maria's subtle hints xD

@Anneliezz I’ll answer to your post in this thread >>
https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t1086p20-is-zero-on-sara-s-side#24430

>> cuz it fits better. I hope you don’t mind.

aya-chan wrote:

caela wrote: Rido was jello pudding during that time... Rido was not the one who changed the list.

Rido was not the one who wrote the name on the list himself, but he was the one who ordered to the senate to get rid of shizuka's servant.



and you can see better in this one

There is no proof of any activity, mental or otherwise from Rido 5-6 years prior when the list was changed.

You try the big finger here. So, in your logic, if rido did not had any activity before changing the list means he did not change it?
rido was the one who ordered to the senate to get rid of shizuka's lover. evidence sustained by manga and fanbook .
If the fanbook and manga itself aren't proves to you then I do not know what is.

I suggest you to re-read manga/fanbook and then accuse others for not bringing proofs for their words. we yume demonstrate you that rido was the one responsable for zero's drama, but you did not show an evidence/facts which proved otherwise.

I will keep this simple because somehow everything I write is read by other people as rude.

umm...big finger?

anyways... I used a google search on "fanbook" and was only able to find one definition:

http://www.definition-of.net/fanbook
http://www.definition-of.net/fanbook

"definition of fanbook - Similar to a doujin, a fanbook is an unofficial art or comic book, created by a fan of any game, show or cartoon. Usually these fanbooks are created for Japanese anime and depict hentai themes."

Fanbooks, even official ones, do not carry canon status. If it had canon status, the name "fanbook" would not be in the title.

So yes, I am still waiting for proof. I am willing to wait for new chapters.

caela wrote:I will keep this simple because somehow everything I write is read by other people as rude.

umm...big finger?

anyways... I used a google search on "fanbook" and was only able to find one definition:

http://www.definition-of.net/fanbook
http://www.definition-of.net/fanbook

"definition of fanbook - Similar to a doujin, a fanbook is an unofficial art or comic book, created by a fan of any game, show or cartoon. Usually these fanbooks are created for Japanese anime and depict hentai themes."

Fanbooks, even official ones, do not carry canon status. If it had canon status, the name "fanbook" would not be in the title.

So yes, I am still waiting for proof. I am willing to wait for new chapters.

It seems to me that you're denying the mangaka and her official fanbook, eh? From what Aya-chan have posted is 100% reliable by the mangaka. If it was unofficial, it wouldn't be written by Hino... just some random ghost writer writing miscellaneous stuff.

Let me ask you: Did Rido ever had the power to order the vampire senate to do anything in the manga?

That's what it says in the fanbook in the part Aya-chan used as proof.

caela wrote:Let me ask you: Did Rido ever had the power to order the vampire senate to do anything in the manga?

That's what it says in the fanbook.

May I ask you if you have read the manga correctly or you just skip those chapters/pages to focus on Zeki? You don't need to ask anyone here and go to check yourself in VK....And I can see that you miss many circumstances in the manga ...I see they gave you enough info already....What a troll..

Evil in love wrote:

caela wrote:Let me ask you: Did Rido ever had the power to order the vampire senate to do anything in the manga?

That's what it says in the fanbook.

May I ask you if you have read the manga correctly or you just skip those chapters/pages to focus on Zeki? You don't need to ask anyone here and go to check yourself in VK....And I can see that you miss many circumstances in the manga ...I see they gave you enough info already....What a troll..

(1) I gave a source for a definition.

(2) I pointed out that the fanbook has an inaccuracy in the section that was used as evidence of Rido's involvement with the execution list.

So, how am I trolling?

I don't consider official fanbooks canon because they are known for the large number of inaccuracies compared to the manga.