Vampire Knight chapter 79 Full Raws and first translation

First topic message reminder :

Thanks to the LJ community and Arinicole for notifying about the release of the vampire knight 79 full raws
Link for the lJ: http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/979631.html#comments

direct link HERE

and many thanks also to senbyafanatic that made a first translation for all of us to enjoy:

http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/979917.html#cutid1 thank you..

Ok! so as I was reading all the comments and trying to find an explanation something just pop out in my mind!
So, what if the Kaname that appeared in front of Zero and Yuuki wasn't even a reflection of Kaname but Sarah? I mean she made that "kaname" to appear infront of Zero and Yuuki to tell Zero all this things that he did and that Sarah said before so Zero can get super mad crazy and try to kill him!! and maybe that's why Sarah is so calm about Kaname being there because she knows that Zero is going to come at any time and kill kaname for her!
I don't know if it makes sense but it could explain somethings and some incoherencies in what kaname was saying!

I think its amazing how ZeKi can communicate without words...It's like they both responded to their thoughts...

Yuuki: I seem to finally understand…if I go back to the root of everything, I’ll find myself there. (i.e., everything must have happened because of me) And therefore, I must stop Kaname.

Zero: It’s…not your fault, so don’t cry for me.

Its beautiful...

Juliet wrote: So she tosses to him his own lines back at chapter 55? Haha, Sara lacks imagination but has humour.

Yeah haha she tosses to him his own words … but rather than humour I would say she has a great nerve there! Fearless or brainless??? I guess we have to wait and see from where it stems Sara’s confidence there lol

Perhaps then she refers to Hio (which she has not commented that far, how she missed that part or hasn’t she? I cannot remember).

If though she literally means what she says (and that’s recent) though, then who that pureblood could be and how come Hino did not show us that? Anyway, lets move on for now.

Well obviously Sara’s reference on Kaname’s smell is vague. So I was thinking that IF this isn’t a new case (which Hino shall reveal later on) then except from Hio’s case there is Touma’s case as well.
So could the smell that Sara is talking about concerning Touma’s incident? We know that Kaname somehow manipulated Touma’s body which was wounded by him, i.e. could his blood odor to be attached on Kaname? Most likely whatever trick Kaname used there he did it, using the extraordinary abilities that the PBs’ blood have. For example … as we saw after Kaien’s hit Kaname’s seemingly body dissolved into bats –which are made from blood- and Touma’s wounded body appeared. So whatever happened there, happened with blood.
This incident must have happened a few days ago top, since as Kageyama says, now we are still on the same day that the two vampires from the NC attempted to attack them. So Touma’s case should be very recent.

Just saying … as another possibility there lol.

andy-san wrote: So, what if the Kaname that appeared in front of Zero and Yuuki wasn't even a reflection of Kaname but Sarah? I mean she made that "kaname" to appear infront of Zero and Yuuki to tell Zero all this things that he did and that Sarah said before so Zero can get super mad crazy and try to kill him!! and maybe that's why Sarah is so calm about Kaname being there because she knows that Zero is going to come at any time and kill kaname for her!
I don't know if it makes sense but it could explain somethings and some incoherencies in what kaname was saying!

You know if we didn’t have all the previous sayings from Kaname I would also trying to think different explanations. But since Kaname has repeatedly kept the same stance regarding Yuuki I’m certain that it was Kaname there in front of Yuuki and Zero –well into a familiar form, not his actually body- but I don’t think that it was Sara’s trick.
Kaname is on the same mode for a long time now … since Hanadagi and Aido-dono’s case, until recently with his message through Kaien. He seems that desperately trying to push Yuuki away and make her to give up on him, for some reasons as Takuma pointed out as well.
So in short, I don’t find it strange at all … in fact I was expecting that Kaname will react in the way he did … and I think not only confirmed Sara’s sayings but he worsen deliberately the whole thing.

If you look the convo between Kaname and Zero you will see that every time that Zero says “Why;” he’s pushing it even further >>

Kaname: I did what I did so that Shizuka could have her revenge …no…so that I could have her attack a certain hunter couple.

I’ve bolded the pauses and the word “no” … These are hints that Kaname was trying to think there and make the situation even worst.
I guess if Zero was keep asking why; maybe he would have taken the blame even for the “original sin” hahaha … who knows maybe he had manipulated even Eva to give that apple to Adam ROFLMAO!

However I agree with you … Sara’s apathy there left me stunned O.O, thus I’m expecting some twists …

Juliet wrote: The war is an issue that is repeated over and over again from Sara to Aido-dono and from Asato to Rido, we know that the epilogue shall lead to a final showdown (a war actually) probably as the first arc ended with the first casualties of Kaname’s OP (the senate). So what does it scream that the second part that shall be about? (from what we know about his OP so far?)

Yes I agree … maybe I had in mind a greater scale of war, like the battle fields of the past which now would turn to be the streets of the cities with the humans the first victims lol. << This kind of a war I found it difficult to happen, but I could be wrong though.

But I can see that Kaname perhaps wants to create a stage in which every party shall take its place … as you said this is the final showdown so every one has to choose a front. Maybe even this time the choice will be up to every individual regardless its race …

About the human casualties I do not know. Humans do not seem to have been affected yet, Kaname took protection when he had asked Ruka and Kain to evacuate the city when visiting Isaya (which shows that he is quite precautious with all that). So if his decision would be to lead a war, I do think that he would have predicted that part.

Plus the volcano scene and Seiren’s line that he has still many things to do…he is preparing something but what? And apart from the “war” hint that is spread here and there in the script, right now I do not get another one. But I might be ultimately wrong, after all this is Kaname that we are talking about….LOL.

I was thinking that all of that, that you describe above, could be the preparations/precautions to avert Sara’s intention to provoke butchery. Sara doesn’t give a damn about how many lives will be lost from any race. Thus this is her advantage against Kaname.

As you say >>

Yes, exactly Sara seems to threaten Kaname here. But that’s Sara’s estimation here that he shall want to avoid it. Has Kaname fallen so far for any of the methods that Sara has used in order to cut his course (with the hope to use Yuuki’s feelings against him and Zero also as her shield)?
It’s actually the opposite so far; she is burying him ten feet underground for crimes or sins that he did not committed and he on his own device goes 20 feet below and does not understand a thing of Sara’s ways. What I mean to say is that Sara’s appreciation of what she considers to be Kaname’s soft or vulnerable spots are hitting the wall, and Kaname has proven her bitterly wrong so far in her estimations.

To my appreciation its not just Sara but also Kaname who with accepting all of her blames and taking on his shoulders more crimes, he is also pushing her to move forward and use all of her cards one by one which he burns with no care. So yes, perhaps the “war” card to be her last resort but is she actually betting right on this one? Or is Kaname going to “cancel” her one more time?

Right … I co-sign every single word!!!! (I loved the passion that stems through your words!!!!!!! lol)
Kaname burns every time Sara’s cards, each by each leaving no space for her to take advantage of his own weaknesses, as for example his feelings and fears for Yuuki.

However I think there is also another way to burn again Sara’s threats to provoke an open war by cancel it. And here could fit the preparations that you described above.
What was he doing all that time? Or what he was doing the whole year that Yuuki was in the mansion? At least there is an open window from Hino to reveal something more there …

Sara seems very confident and fearless. You remember that we were discussing, before the release of the new chapter, about what Sara will do now that the circle seems to getting tighter for her. But, eventually she didn’t fly away … on the contrary she sat back and waited Kaname’s arrival.
So is she so stupid? Or she’ll fall without fight? I think not. Therefore IMO is ready to unfold her final step of her plan >> an open war in which she thinks that has two advantages:
1. Her amoralism … she has no limits regarding the losses.
2. Maybe she even thinks that has a numerical advantage through her tablets. Cuz I’m thinking, that the users of the tabs should be the vampires who were pro-coexistence i.e. vampires who didn’t use human blood for their needs. In other words, vampires who should have been Kaname’s allies –due to the same ideals- in a case of an open war. So until Yuuki replace these dark tablets with her owns, Sara still has the upper hand on this.

Ergo, which forces shall fight side by side with Kaname? The hunters? Even so, we know that they do not have the personnel to counter back a massive attack from vampires. Thus I wonder with whom Kaname will give this ultimate fight?

To conclude … yes both Sara and Kaname might want a “war” for different reasons, but my feeling is that in what they differ is the scale of that war.

Yes he did say that stuff before Hana’s execution but after having a long talk with Kaname there and if you remember he hints Kaname with many weird sayings
“ you shall not hesitate to sacrifice us all” , “committed the greatest sin before Shizuka went missing”, where his hint about Shizuka, I agree its very weird because in the first case he repeats a line that Asato had said, at the second a line that Sara used recently. And he puts it in such way that he delivers not the fact (Shizuka’s release) but Sara’s twisted lies as we know that Shizuka’s lover was alive, therefore it was not Kaname the one that commited that crime (changing humans deliberately) through Zero’s story.

This line that I bolded is Asato’s … and yes he was right haha very prophetic words lol. He didn’t hesitate to exterminate them. And the other as you pointed out is Sara’s twisted “secret”. So we can say that Aido-dono was in some degree influenced from the information he had from Asato and maybe Sara? And Kaname at that point didn’t give to him his side of the story.
I’m not suggesting that he betrayed Kaname … no … because otherwise he wouldn’t propose to Yuuki to stop Kaname out of concern, but only that he didn’t have the whole picture of Kaname’s plan/intentions thus after the short talk they had at Hanadagi’s castle he eventually consented to his death >> a hint –at least for me- that he agreed with whatever Kaname said to him.

Juliet wrote:

Furthermore many of them most likely are in slumber (Hanadagi was, Hio too) and we haven’t see many of them active, except from Isaya and Touma. So, it wouldn’t be easier to kill them while they’re still sleeping, rather than awaking them

But would he do that prior to them taking sides if he had not enough evidence of the past that they are implicated in this as well? And I am not strictly talk about purebloods here, because as we saw other level of vampires or classes were also involved here.

Yes you have a good point there. Basically I was trying to also show that IF his OP was limited only to the extermination of the remaining PBs then it would be easier for Kaname to kill them while their were in slumber rather than trying to provoke an open war in order to kill them. Cuz in this case at least the PBs who are against co-existence shall form a front against him, as happened in ancient times, which means that it would be far more difficult to exterminate them all, not to mention the countless casualties.

Hence arises the question; IF he intended to kill them ALL and that’s it, why not doing it while they were in slumber?

So bottom line, I agree with you that his goal and plan is more perplexed than the annihilation of ALL the PBs, in which apparently ALL agree with, except from Kaien and Yuuki hahaha … So for what all this trouble; just to kill a bunch of PBs who probably wouldn’t fight back???

It is very simplistic to justify all this plot … at least for me lol.

At least that’s what I think of it up to now..sorry for tiring you.

Are you crazy? As if you were tiring me hahaha … I love our “debates”! *hugs*

I hope that Hino shall shed more light because all of this delay with the plot has tired me (and my imagination gets more wild also)...LOL

This last line … I think is a bigger threat than even Sara’s there and if I add my wild imagination as well; >> hahaha

And something lastly … according to Japanese scans what Yuuki is thinking after hearing Kaname’s lies there is >>

零のことはこんなにわかるのに = "Even though I know Zero like this,"

私が枢の何をわかってないのか = "which thing of Kaname I don't know?"

"Even though I know Zero like this, which thing of Kaname I don't know?"

I think it is quite different from the Chinese text ^^.

And it is pretty natural for Yuuki to think in this way, since the Kaname that stood in front of her, isn’t the Kaname that she truly knows, but his façade! And I do not mean that he is in his “familiar self” but the stance that he keeps.

Of course Yuuki doesn’t know a Kaname who doesn’t love her more than anything in this world, simply cuz such a Kaname doesn’t exist! And since Kaname also is lying about his involvement with Zero’s drama … Yuuki is double right >> this Kaname doesn’t exist!

And the verification of this is her last line >> Yuuki: I seem to finally understand…if I go back to the root of everything, I’ll find myself there. (i.e., everything must have happened because of me) And therefore, I must stop Kaname.

She FINALLY realizes that everything that Kaname does is for her! In other words despite Kaname’s attempt to convince her that she is just an obstacle for him she didn’t buy it ho ho ho. Yuuki’s intelligence is surprising! OR rather her faith on the true Kaname is her guide!

On the other hand … maybe Zero thinks that she is crying for him, and this could be true in some extent, since she is thinking that she might be kinda responsible for his drama, but the truth is that her mind was glued on Kaname!
Viz, Zero is thinking >> Yuuki and Yuuki is thinking >> Kaname <333, as always^^

I think that Kaname’s last hope there to keep her away from him is Zero … I think he counts on Zero to restrain her as he did at least 3 times thus far by grabbing her arm.
And I wonder … if Yuuki was on Zero’s side (I mean emotionally) why Zero had to stop her every time she says >> "I’ll go to find Kaname" ?????

枢が 私の枢がそこにいる---- = "Kaname, my Kaname is there-----"

"一緒に行かないと" = "I must go with him together"

As a dear friend said … this line is so Shakesperian!!!!!

nina wrote:

枢が 私の枢がそこにいる---- = "Kaname, my Kaname is there-----"

"一緒に行かないと" = "I must go with him together"

As a dear friend said … this line is so Shakesperian!!!!!

I can't help it. I must agree. This line is so Shakesperian and I love it!!!!

Nina and Juu:

nina wrote:

Kaname: I did what I did so that Shizuka could have her revenge …no…so that I could have her attack a certain hunter couple.

I’ve bolded the pauses and the word “no” … These are hints that Kaname was trying to think there and make the situation even worst.

Exactly the long pause to me is telling. You pause in a sentence when you think about what your about to say, your next line. Its usually also when you are changing your mind.

From this line by kaname i want to discuss more about Shizuka and the events around her.

Now then we know from the manga shizuka escaped her confines(aka. her cage) with her lover. So the revenge Kaname speaks of can't have been in relation to the Kiryu's as her lover was still alive, therefore this only leaves the council and Rido really on who she wanted revenge on. Considering they are the ones to have locked her away like an animal, have her isolated from love or understanding, her circumstance is very pitable, and we've seen that Kaname pitied her state. Also i dont think the council will have been happy on her attachment to a Level D vampire at all, we saw later that they twisted the hunters list to get rid of shizuka's lover, while shizuka was in her cage she has got to have been worried they would take him away from her. So i see this more a kindness from kaname in helping her and her lover escape their fate. Kaname can't have predicted the events to follow (he isnt a god lets remember). Yes him releasing shizuka indirectly after some evenst led to Zero's suffering but it wasnt his intention he couldnt predict what happened. And also does that mean people condone anothers person suffering if it means one of their favourite characters could be happy??? I love Zero but i can't condone some elses suffering just so he's happy, also considering his own character and kind heart i doubt he'd like that either. Thats then being quite cruel towards another character who hadnt really done anything to deserve it as she was locked up as a pet really. The evnts that happened afterwards we're sad and the kiryu's didnt deserve their fate just as much as shizuka didnt deserve her's. The ones to balme for this.......The council and Rido.

(Alo a more shrewd reason kaname may have released shizuka is she could have been his original plan and idea to help him elimate Rido and deal with the council. Consdiering they both shared a hatred against them.)

Personally i think his underlying reason was pity but an idea on her assisting him could also have been in lay when he releashed her

Divine Rose wrote:

nina wrote:

枢が 私の枢がそこにいる---- = "Kaname, my Kaname is there-----"

"一緒に行かないと" = "I must go with him together"

As a dear friend said … this line is so Shakesperian!!!!!

I can't help it. I must agree. This line is so Shakesperian and I love it!!!!

I love this line!!!!

Bloodredhead wrote: Alo a more shrewd reason kaname may have released shizuka is she could have been his original plan and idea to help him elimate Rido and deal with the council. Consdiering they both shared a hatred against them.

This is my idea too. Shizuka had reasons to despise rido or the senate, since they were the ones who imprisoned her, and deprived her from love.

Kaname couldn't give rido the final blow, and he tried to find ways to kill him. I think shizuka was an option for him.

Even if rido was under council protection, he was into a vulnerable state, and shizuka wouldn't have had problems if she would have went to kill him. The senate wouldn't have been a problem either - they were far too weak to face shizuka in combat.

But kaname plan did not work since her lover was killed and she went mad after it.

I wonder if rido wanted her lover dead on purpose, for her to go mad and her attention/hatred to be focused on hunters and not him, nor senate. With shizuka in freedom, rido had reasons to be concerned.

Well obviously Sara’s reference on Kaname’s smell is vague. So I was thinking that IF this isn’t a new case (which Hino shall reveal later on) then except from Hio’s case there is Touma’s case as well.
So could the smell that Sara is talking about concerning Touma’s incident? We know that Kaname somehow manipulated Touma’s body which was wounded by him, i.e. could his blood odor to be attached on Kaname? Most likely whatever trick Kaname used there he did it, using the extraordinary abilities that the PBs’ blood have. For example … as we saw after Kaien’s hit Kaname’s seemingly body dissolved into bats –which are made from blood- and Touma’s wounded body appeared. So whatever happened there, happened with blood.
This incident must have happened a few days ago top, since as Kageyama says, now we are still on the same day that the two vampires from the NC attempted to attack them. So Touma’s case should be very recent.

Just saying … as another possibility there lol.

Well I think that’s a great possibility there that we can not exclude, actually is a great remark and it only connects back to what we know, instead of trying to guess parts that we don’t know…so I think that it’s very likely, that is Touma.

In any case, Kaname appears to be stronger I guess, since he would have increased his powers there at Sara’s eyes= not good news for her.

2. Maybe she even thinks that has a numerical advantage through her tablets. Cuz I’m thinking, that the users of the tabs should be the vampires who were pro-coexistence i.e. vampires who didn’t use human blood for their needs. In other words, vampires who should have been Kaname’s allies –due to the same ideals- in a case of an open war. So until Yuuki replace these dark tablets with her owns, Sara still has the upper hand on this.

I do agree with you and that can be her greatest advantage or certainty about Kaname’s hesitation= the ones that were taking the tablets were mainly the ones co-siding with the co-existence and the peace treaty> we already saw that even the highest representatives and supporters of the Kuran’s faction were the early victims of the tablets> the NC, thus the most innocent of all, are actually the ones that in a case of a war will be the first to be killed because they will be the main army without even having the responsibility of their actions> How tragic could that be, therefore the implication that the tablets create here can be Sara’s greatest advantage against Kaname and also the ones that shall support him.

Even without a war, any vampire that took the tablets but attacks humans will be exterminated, therefore this is a great danger involved there that the hunters underestimate and only Yuuki has spotted until now.

So the key is for Yuuki to manage and reverse the effects of the tablets at a greater scale in time, that shall cancel Sara’s army all together and then she should fight on her own device without shields, just with her pure supporters, however that chess game is formed, she must be stripped of that pretended “army” in order to fight with the “real” one that shall expose everything.
But I do not think that Kaname shall give her the opportunity to think that he can even subside to that, Kaname seems to have his own OP plan and Sara seems to be the “reason” the fields and the fronts shall be divided, without her there would be complete silence. But for one reason or another it seems to me that Kaname preferred to take opportunity of Sara’s nerve in order to move on with his OP.

Ergo, which forces shall fight side by side with Kaname? The hunters? Even so, we know that they do not have the personnel to counter back a massive attack from vampires. Thus I wonder with whom Kaname will give this ultimate fight? To conclude … yes both Sara and Kaname might want a “war” for different reasons, but my feeling is that in what they differ is the scale of that war.

Well if we get to there we shall see it I guess, the point is that at the current chapters we see that Sara’s tablets are revealed, Yuuki wants to take Takuma back, so a very important step is made; that Sara is stripped from her “pretended army” that could in reality prevent any flames against her, and therefore if there is any intention from Kaname to create a war against the ones that were responsible for the expansion of Asato’s crimes, the front shall be open.

I’m not suggesting that he betrayed Kaname … no … because otherwise he wouldn’t propose to Yuuki to stop Kaname out of concern, but only that he didn’t have the whole picture of Kaname’s plan/intentions thus after the short talk they had at Hanadagi’s castle he eventually consented to his death >> a hint –at least for me- that he agreed with whatever Kaname said to him.

And another possibility to consider about Aidou’s dad, and I shall say it because I liked it so much!, is that Kaname protected him from Sara by creating a death stage scene, because Aido-dono was a witness to Sara’s plans and he knew that she shall create war conditions (with her army), with awakening a pureblood, with evading all the rules that he knew.

If Kaname had not interfered there, then Aidou’s dad would have the same fate or even worst, I believe, with Hanadagi’s guardian who was also a witness there. I suppose that Sara kept the guardian alive for whatever reason but why would she spare Aido-dono? Takuma would be emotionally affected, Aidou would be searching for his father and in other words he would have been a real burden to her. So there are minor chances there for his survival. > I think this is what Kaname explains to him and Aido-dono understands the rather bizarre situation in which his peaceful intentions brought him.

But they need witnesses that would verify and spread to Sara the news that Aido-dono has been finished and so she does not need to hunt him down/ even worst if her spiders were present, and just as they go over it, the witnesses are on their way there> and they stage a dramatic death scene.
I believe that Kaname would have fled sooner if Aido-dono had not appeared on his way. Plus Ruka and Kain are not at least affected that their uncle was murdered or they are in full apprehension and accordance of the conditions?

And still if they were prepared for his murder in case he had been a traitor, Aido-dono accidentaly found himself there, how is it possible for that to be an organized crime?

I think that this can be a rather good excuse that Aido-dono should go vanishing and disappearing for his own safety.

I would so much like to see it happening, and I so much wish that this can be truth…

Are you crazy? As if you were tiring me hahaha … I love our “debates”! *hugs*

Me too…I think that it screams.

This last line … I think is a bigger threat than even Sara’s there and if I add my wild imagination as well; >>

LOL…VK rewritten, if we do not like Hino, we shall write our own edition…we have done the half job there already…

枢が 私の枢がそこにいる---- = "Kaname, my Kaname is there-----"

"一緒に行かないと" = "I must go with him together"

As a dear friend said … this line is so Shakesperian!!!!!

And Sexperient also…or what else would Yuuki do with Kaname? Aha! so in times where the NC has a crisis, the co-existence ideals are in danger, Zero is throwing tantrums and purebloods are killed, Yuuki wants to go with her Kaname?

Reminds me of a song….town without a pity….hm…

ow then we know from the manga shizuka escaped her confines(aka. her cage) with her lover. So the revenge Kaname speaks of can't have been in relation to the Kiryu's as her lover was still alive, therefore this only leaves the council and Rido really on who she wanted revenge on. Considering they are the ones to have locked her away like an animal, have her isolated from love or understanding, her circumstance is very pitable, and we've seen that Kaname pitied her state. Also i dont think the council will have been happy on her attachment to a Level D vampire at all, we saw later that they twisted the hunters list to get rid of shizuka's lover, while shizuka was in her cage she has got to have been worried they would take him away from her. So i see this more a kindness from kaname in helping her and her lover escape their fate. Kaname can't have predicted the events to follow (he isnt a god lets remember). Yes him releasing shizuka indirectly after some evenst led to Zero's suffering but it wasnt his intention he couldnt predict what happened. And also does that mean people condone anothers person suffering if it means one of their favourite characters could be happy??? I love Zero but i can't condone some elses suffering just so he's happy, also considering his own character and kind heart i doubt he'd like that either. Thats then being quite cruel towards another character who hadnt really done anything to deserve it as she was locked up as a pet really. The evnts that happened afterwards we're sad and the kiryu's didnt deserve their fate just as much as shizuka didnt deserve her's. The ones to balme for this.......The council and Rido.

Blood I can not agree more with your description about the events and the reasons that concerned Shizuka’s release. It was neither Kaname’s fault, neither Shizuka’s, the council had interfered both in her capturing and both in the hunters list to get her back and finalize Shizuka’s bond with the vampire.

Kaname takes the blame for now, so that he can persuade Sara (I believe) that nothing shall do, and so that she can go on with her plan so that the curtains fall…meanwhile by confirming her though perhaps that can be a liberation for Zero’s hate? He used to hate all purebloods but now it seems that only one shall be his target, and since Zero now knows or thinks that he knows Kaname’s plan will he continue giving in to his hateful emotions or this will stubborn him and decide to fight his hate and let go of it? Kaname is to pay the price once more- but perhaps through that Zero founds an exit from hateful emotions.

Juliet wrote: And another possibility to consider about Aidou’s dad, and I shall say it because I liked it so much!, is that Kaname protected him from Sara by creating a death stage scene, because Aido-dono was a witness to Sara’s plans and he knew that she shall create war conditions (with her army), with awakening a pureblood, with evading all the rules that he knew.

If Kaname had not interfered there, then Aidou’s dad would have the same fate or even worst, I believe, with Hanadagi’s guardian who was also a witness there. I suppose that Sara kept the guardian alive for whatever reason but why would she spare Aido-dono? Takuma would be emotionally affected, Aidou would be searching for his father and in other words he would have been a real burden to her. So there are minor chances there for his survival. > I think this is what Kaname explains to him and Aido-dono understands the rather bizarre situation in which his peaceful intentions brought him.

But they need witnesses that would verify and spread to Sara the news that Aido-dono has been finished and so she does not need to hunt him down/ even worst if her spiders were present, and just as they go over it, the witnesses are on their way there> and they stage a dramatic death scene.
I believe that Kaname would have fled sooner if Aido-dono had not appeared on his way. Plus Ruka and Kain are not at least affected that their uncle was murdered or they are in full apprehension and accordance of the conditions?

And still if they were prepared for his murder in case he had been a traitor, Aido-dono accidentaly found himself there, how is it possible for that to be an organized crime?

I think that this can be a rather good excuse that Aido-dono should go vanishing and disappearing for his own safety.

I would so much like to see it happening, and I so much wish that this can be truth…

Jul!!!!! I think you’ve find something brilliant there!!!!

Here is my take…

I think in order to form a certain idea about Aido-dono’s possible ending –if Kaname wouldn’t have done what he did- we have to figure out what’s Sara’s purpose for keeping, Hanadagi’s guard!

However NOW it is evident why she snatched her from the crime scene (she didn’t want to leave witnesses behind) but WHY she didn’t kill her; and WHY is still so interested in her even after she revealed to Yuuki her involvement?!

What else is there? Only an amusing toy? Somehow it isn’t convincing, since as we saw the guard is burning Sara and not Kaname! So why she kept her alive??

Now about Aido-dono … yes he was a witness but I hardly can imagine that Kaname would have killed him just because he could reveal his plan later on. I’m sure that if Kaname was asking him to hush he would have done it.

On the other hand though, this is a perfect reason of WHY Aido-dono should disappear ^^
Viz Aido-dono should at least be appeared as dead, not only for the purpose to fool Yuuki, Hanabusa and Kaien that Kaname went “berserk”, but MOSTLY for Sara, in order to feel safe that no one would expose her involvement to Hanadagi’s case!

Because as we saw, Sara had in mind to throw all the blame upon Kaname and actually she did it, rushing to Kaien and Yuuki. And as we wondered for so long; where is Hana’s guard to shed some light on the events? Why Sara didn’t care about her testimony???

Well the answer was simple … she did care thus she captured her because at that time at least she wanted to play the innocent victim-to-be of Kaname and ensure her entry at the academy, as actually happened. So perhaps Kaname had to “take care” the other witness which btw maybe he shouldn’t have been there in the first place I agree.

So … I think Jul that you’ve dug up a hint that can pinpoint that Kaname had no other way than to stage a death to convince FIRSTLY Sara that she wasn’t running any danger from Aido-dono’s testimony < something that would have made her to hunting him down.

IF so, then in the end Kaname could have had “protected” him from Sara cuz in the best case as you said he would have ended up as Hanadagi’s guard and in the worst, dead. Also such a twist makes more logical and explains Ruka/Kain’s stance there which was pretty flat, if you ask me, considering that Kaname just had killed their uncle and the father of their dear friend Hanabusa. IF Aido-dono wasn’t a traitor (which doesn’t seem so) then isn’t their “apathy” weird? Ruka there, seemed to only considers Kaname’s burnt hand and Hanabusa’s pain … no sign of grief, not a single word about Aido-dono’s lost life >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68/2

And Kaname’s burnt hand it is weird and STILL unexplained itself.

Now if may I add something here that it might be relevant or not …

We had discussed Kaname’s burnt hand many, many times in the past theorizing about it … but the fact is, that still we do not have a clear/solid explanation about it, something that reinforcing, at least for me, the mystery around this and the possibility that it might be something hidden behind it. So, in regards to the above theory I recall our old speculations that Kaname’s burnt hand might have to do with Aido-dono’s case/disappearance.

Also there is an irrelevant reference with this case but it might give as an idea of a “mechanism” that it could have had played a role there.

It is about Takuma’s power as a noble vampire:

From the official fan-book page 87 >>

He (Takuma) has the ability to disintegrate matter, and when he fights, he uses a Japanese sword as a medium for his power. A vampire that receives Ichijo’s sword turns to ashes with no time to fight back!

The key word is medium >> Takuma uses a simple sword as medium to transfer his powers to his “prey”.
Thus I was thinking … is it possible that Kaname to have used a similar mechanism in Aido-dono’s case; in order to transfer an ability of his through that sword to affect Aido-dono; hence in spite of inflicting death, to have vanished him? Just theorizing lol.

***************

Another point that I want to emphasize –cuz we haven’t discuss it much- is Hanadagi’s guard wording and stance. She is blaming Sara for her master’s death and NOT Kaname who delivered the final blow to him …
And on top of that she is seeking for revenge asking help from a Kuran!!!

I do not know if it is only me … but my feeling is that this is peculiar lol. Normally Hana’s guard should seek for revenge not only from Sara but from Kaname too and certainly NOT asking the help of a Kuran i.e. Yuuki. Cuz bottom line is that Yuuki is Kaname’s fiancée … so why; she shows so much trust to Yuuki?

Actually what caught my attention is this line >>

Guard: “If it wasn’t for that female fox’s attack … master would NOT have been killed.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/26

So, why the catalyst in Hana’s death was Sara’s attack? Cuz Hana would have been able to go on living even and without his heart i.e. Sara’s attack wasn’t fatal.
And also Yuuki seems to give special gravity on the fact that Kaname didn’t attack Hanadagi’s coffin.

Is there anything that we missing here in order to fully understand the significance and the implications of Sara’s attack?

My mind goes to the relation that might be formed between a PB in a slumber and a PB who might awake the PB from its slumber. Example the relation between Kaname and Rido … Rido was Kaname’s MASTER just because he awoken him from his coffin, thus Kaname couldn’t kill him.

So I’m thinking … could this relation to apply on Sara – Hanadagi’s case? Could Sara was Hanadagi’s master since she awoken him? And if so, how this can lead to the “justified” Hanadagi’s killing from Kaname’s sword at least from the guard’s POV???

Any ideas? I have some … but I’ll save it for later ^^

*******************

Juliet wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote: Now then we know from the manga shizuka escaped her confines(aka. her cage) with her lover. So the revenge Kaname speaks of can't have been in relation to the Kiryu's as her lover was still alive, therefore this only leaves the council and Rido really on who she wanted revenge on. Considering they are the ones to have locked her away like an animal, have her isolated from love or understanding, her circumstance is very pitable, and we've seen that Kaname pitied her state. Also i dont think the council will have been happy on her attachment to a Level D vampire at all, we saw later that they twisted the hunters list to get rid of shizuka's lover, while shizuka was in her cage she has got to have been worried they would take him away from her. So i see this more a kindness from kaname in helping her and her lover escape their fate. Kaname can't have predicted the events to follow (he isnt a god lets remember). Yes him releasing shizuka indirectly after some evenst led to Zero's suffering but it wasnt his intention he couldnt predict what happened.
The evnts that happened afterwards we're sad and the kiryu's didnt deserve their fate just as much as shizuka didnt deserve her's. The ones to balme for this.......The council and Rido.

Blood I can not agree more with your description about the events and the reasons that concerned Shizuka’s release. It was neither Kaname’s fault, neither Shizuka’s, the council had interfered both in her capturing and both in the hunters list to get her back and finalize Shizuka’s bond with the vampire.

I agree with both of you. I won’t insist on the point that Kaname might have released Shizuka from her cage but he couldn’t predicted the row of the events that followed i.e. the Kiryuus drama, cuz I think we have analyzed it all-out already.

What I want to underline though to Blood’s post is Kaname’s possible motives to liberate Shizuka and her lover.

But before that just to point out something … even if Kaname wanted to help her escaping I think he wouldn’t have done it openly … I mean he wouldn’t have discussed it first with Shizuka. If Kaname wanted to uncage her then he would have done it secretly, in order to not jeopardize finding out Asato, his involvement. Hence I think it is more possible that Shizuka didn’t even know who “opened” her cage.

Now, because I have written about this in another thread and due to my laziness I’ll just quote here some portions. I’ll use a spoiler in order to not bother members that might have read it already.

* Kaname’s pity/sympathy for Shizuka’s condition:

Spoiler:

* Asato/senate’s possible plans for Shizuka’s blood:

Spoiler:

Personally I find this ^^^ possible motive stronger than the pity one, or at least let’s say that Kaname’s sympathy it might be an additional one but not the solely or the main one. What leads me towards this thought, is the sense of continuation that we ascertain now … I mean now is more obvious that the 2nd arc is tight connected with the 1st arc … many thought that with the end of the 1st arc a new unrelated circle was starting but this seems far from the truth … Many events that we’re seeing rolling now have its root to the first arc.
Such as:
- Sara’s plan >> which is a continuation of Asato’s scheme who we know that he wanted to utilize the blood of the PBs having as ultimate goal the annihilation of all the PBs and the total dominance.
- Shizuka’s case and the implications that creates now.
- Rido’s reappearance which we do not know the exact role that it might play.
- Hio’s death … his relation with Shizuka’s history might be related with his death.
- Kaname’s operation of his OP … a plan which started in the 1st arc as well.

So, what I’m trying to say here is that IMO is very possible that as Kaname’s plan runs throughout the story from day one, why not the same to not apply and to his opponents; i.e. the forces and their plans that he fights against?

In short … since we know that Asato’s plan had the same goal as Sara’s plus he wanted to use the blood of the PBs to do so (Shizuka’s?) … why not Kaname to have chosen to free Shizuka in order to put an halt to Asato’s plans? And we have to note that at that time Kaname didn’t have neither the power nor was in position to stop Asato openly … so his action to free Shizuka might be an attempt, if not to stop Asato permanently at least to delay him until he would have gained the power to do so once and for all as he did it afterwards.

Well this is only my estimation though ^^

Kaname had no other way than to stage a death to convince FIRSTLY Sara that she wasn’t running any danger from Aido-dono’s testimony < something that would have made her to hunting him down.

IF so, then in the end Kaname could have had “protected” him from Sara cuz in the best case as you said he would have ended up as Hanadagi’s guard and in the worst, dead. Also such a twist makes more logical and explains Ruka/Kain’s stance there which was pretty flat, if you ask me, considering that Kaname just had killed their uncle and the father of their dear friend Hanabusa. IF Aido-dono wasn’t a traitor (which doesn’t seem so) then isn’t their “apathy” weird? Ruka there, seemed to only considers Kaname’s burnt hand and Hanabusa’s pain … no sign of grief, not a single word about Aido-dono’s lost life >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/68/2

And Kaname’s burnt hand it is weird and STILL unexplained itself.

Exactly we can not talk of an organized murder there since Aido-dono is there by coincidence...so how can we justify Ruka's and Kain's lack of reaction?

Besides even though the reason that we stated might not be the primary reason to kill Aido-dono, yet it can be the primary in order to justify a staged death scene which would solve for good the problem of Aido's -dono safety.

I agree and co-sign with everything that you say; Sara had reasons for keeping the guardian alive but what would be her reason in order to leave Aido-dono unharmed?

Let's not forget that Aidou-dono stands in the middle of the two purebloods and if he does not know for certainty their plans, we have evidence that show that he suspects them; wouldn't he be another weapon in Sara's plans who would squeeze the info and out of him and perhaps later on exterminate him to make sure that there were no witnesses there left?

I think that we are justified to think that the staged death scene fits better the needs of the script in that time, more than any other explanation that we can come up SO FAR at least.

Kaname's hands had put us in a lot of troubles; haha, I do not think that its Hino style to forget how she had pictured Kaname when wielding the weapons at the past and they were not hurting him; so i hope that there is a better explanation about it than "Hino forgot it". Also to say that Kaname's power are unknown (this is stated in the fan book).

The key word is medium >> Takuma uses a simple sword as medium to transfer his powers to his “prey”.
Thus I was thinking … is it possible that Kaname to have used a similar mechanism in Aido-dono’s case; in order to transfer an ability of his through that sword to affect Aido-dono; hence in spite of inflicting death, to have vanished him?

Very good observation on the medium> and Kaname's sword seem to affect him even more than it should be. Could that be due to great power concentration at that point? (makes me wonder?), even though the idea is still far away, i think that its a possibility that is worthy of having it in mind. As we saw Kaname is all of tricks with his techniques (see Touma for example)..

Actually what caught my attention is this line >>

Guard: “If it wasn’t for that female fox’s attack … master would NOT have been killed.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/26

So, why the catalyst in Hana’s death was Sara’s attack? Cuz Hana would have been able to go on living even and without his heart i.e. Sara’s attack wasn’t fatal.
And also Yuuki seems to give special gravity on the fact that Kaname didn’t attack Hanadagi’s coffin.

Is there anything that we missing here in order to fully understand the significance and the implications of Sara’s attack?

My mind goes to the relation that might be formed between a PB in a slumber and a PB who might awake the PB from its slumber. Example the relation between Kaname and Rido … Rido was Kaname’s MASTER just because he awoken him from his coffin, thus Kaname couldn’t kill him.

So I’m thinking … could this relation to apply on Sara – Hanadagi’s case? Could Sara was Hanadagi’s master since she awoken him? And if so, how this can lead to the “justified” Hanadagi’s killing from Kaname’s sword at least from the guard’s POV???

normally since Sara awakened Hanadagi and with all the theories that we know so far, yes Sara should be his mistress(?),well you know what I mean, being at a dominant position considering the pureblood.

I would love to hear your ideas there , but before this let me state to you my own hesitations with this theory which I had though in the past but i got stacked at the below points;

Neither Sara can kill him, neither Hana...

She stated that she needed the hunter's weapon (so her intention did seem that she wanted her new slave killed)...

Since Rido's only influence over Kaname was the fatal blow and the use of anti-vampire, that means that after all neither Sara would have great influence over Hanadagi ( as he seems far older and stronger than her). I do not see yet the connection between Kaname killing Hana due to the idea of Sara being Hana's mistress because it seems to me that little gravity this control has over Sara's plans> but I would love the enlightenment in here if you have some ideas that can help us move on, personally I am stacked

And another quick observation; I think that Sara did not feed Hanadagi, she just pulled his heart out...and woke him up - i do not know how much of a role that plays to the ritual in order to take control over a pureblood.
______


Hanadagi normally should wake up normally as Isaya did and take his guardian's blood in order to revive and get back memories that he lost...

I wonder if Ruka and Kain investigated the castle to see how much interest Hanadagi had in the common life...according to Sara's words and also according to what we see from being in slumber Hanadagi had lost also his interested in living...so Kaname might be expecting a hit there just by knowing that Sara would use an easy target there as she did with Ouri> he saw the pattern...

a common problem with the purebloods as Isaya had stated to Kaien; "Having so much time on my hands made me lose sight of my reason for living, and i stopped doing anything. Its a typical pureblood situation"...

and Ouri had the same problem because Sara says to Takuma that he expected death since he had become tired of this life.

and when they are bored to death they enter slumber so that they can rest. Kaname had the same (sort of) reaction being too tired to go on, even though as it is depicted at the manga, Kaname lost abrupty his reason for living...

And Yuuki's idea as a reaper seems to come after reflecting that the purebloods who have lost their will to live, suffer and in their effort to escape eternal life, they can use innocents, therefore she volunteers. Despite though her good intentions look at Touma's words;

" The stage is finally getting set for a bloody scene that is much more to my liking. So you get it now? Don't hamper my enjoyment of watching the drama unfold".

I think that now we can better interpret his words. So what is actually confessing but his own agreement with Sara’s side?

Also another question that pops out from what Touma says is how can Yuuki’s so peaceful suggestion interfere with Touma’s enjoyment? How could she ever cause damage?

Was anyone there that Touma knew that was likely to accept her suggestion and had to stop her from providing the peaceful solution?

So in orther words Yuuki’s solution would put an end at the pieces that Sara needed to use in order to create all the conditions for her stage? Isn’t that what actually Touma says to her?

And if Yuuki had provided a solution then Sara could not place the blame on Kaname for the killings, neither create all of this conflict, so Yuuki had to be removed from that stage according to Touma’s speech.

Well Touma wanted also to provoke Kaname because he also says to Kaname; "“ a direct attack on the castle is a tantamount to a declaration of war. Don’t tell me the young leader doesn’t know?” , of course he does LOL .

But his line to Yuuki according IMO betrays all of his intentions; can Yuuki's plan that was so suddenly canceled to hold a greater gravity than the one that we have placed so far? Only speaking my thoughts here.

Personally I find this ^^^ possible motive stronger than the pity one, or at least let’s say that Kaname’s sympathy it might be an additional one but not the solely or the main one. What leads me towards this thought, is the sense of continuation that we ascertain now … I mean now is more obvious that the 2nd arc is tight connected with the 1st arc … many thought that with the end of the 1st arc a new unrelated circle was starting but this seems far from the truth … Many events that we’re seeing rolling now have its root to the first arc.
Such as:
- Sara’s plan >> which is a continuation of Asato’s scheme who we know that he wanted to utilize the blood of the PBs having as ultimate goal the annihilation of all the PBs and the total dominance.
- Shizuka’s case and the implications that creates now.
- Rido’s reappearance which we do not know the exact role that it might play.
- Hio’s death … his relation with Shizuka’s history might be related with his death.
- Kaname’s operation of his OP … a plan which started in the 1st arc as well.

So, what I’m trying to say here is that IMO is very possible that as Kaname’s plan runs throughout the story from day one, why not the same to not apply and to his opponents; i.e. the forces and their plans that he fights against?

In short … since we know that Asato’s plan had the same goal as Sara’s plus he wanted to use the blood of the PBs to do so (Shizuka’s?) … why not Kaname to have chosen to free Shizuka in order to put an halt to Asato’s plans? And we have to note that at that time Kaname didn’t have neither the power nor was in position to stop Asato openly … so his action to free Shizuka might be an attempt, if not to stop Asato permanently at least to delay him until he would have gained the power to do so once and for all as he did it afterwards.

Well this is only my estimation though ^^

Our points match Nina ...here my own also estimations at Shizuka's case

https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t6p140-zero-or-kaname#26520

Juliet and Nina... everything that you've posted is truly one of the best theories and thoughts I've ever seen. Personally, I don't see Kaname as the true villain like Sara. Whenever there's hope, there's life and he truly deserves his happy ending more than anything else in the universe. I'm co-signing the both of you!

Juliet wrote: Sara had reasons for keeping the guardian alive but what would be her reason in order to leave Aido-dono unharmed?
.
.
…wouldn't he be another weapon in Sara's plans who would squeeze the info and out of him and perhaps later on exterminate him to make sure that there were no witnesses there left?

Right. Sara seems that she wouldn’t hesitate to kill/sacrifice Aido-dono’s life … the indication for this is her own line >>

Sara: “I thought if he’d been completely parched I’d have to sacrifice some blood first, so I brought something for him to eat. But there wasn’t any need for that, was there? Aido-dono…”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/21

So … since Sara was ready to sacrifice Aido-dono to “restore” Hanadagi, then doesn’t this mean that he had no further use for her; or at least he wasn’t so important for her? Additionally … Aido-dono’s presence there seems random hence in Sara’s initial plan he cannot have been included. Thus I think yes … afterwards it is highly possible to have killed him in order to wipe out all the witnesses of her involvement.
Rereading this chapter I also noticed that Sara literally confesses that she killed Ouri whilst she knew that Aido was there hiding >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/18

Ergo … knowing now that her intention was to frame Kaname for Ouri’s murder as well, isn’t peculiar that she confesses her crime to Aido-dono? << This I think that is another indication for Aido-dono’s fate, since I cannot imagine that she would have had let him to expose not only her attack to Hanadagi but also the murder of Ouri lol.

Thus I agree … it is apparent that Aido-dono caught up in a situation which seems like a dead-end for him.

Kaname's hands had put us in a lot of troubles; haha, I do not think that its Hino style to forget how she had pictured Kaname when wielding the weapons at the past and they were not hurting him; so i hope that there is a better explanation about it than "Hino forgot it". Also to say that Kaname's power are unknown (this is stated in the fan book).

What intrigues me more in this case and trying to figure out more possibilities about Kaname’s burnt hand, isn’t not only that the explanation that he cannot wield anti-vampire weapons without harm, is contradictory with his past, but also with that scene itself.

Even if we accept that the use of the sword was the reason of his burnt hand … I wonder then; why he had to use it upon Aido-dono??? If the sword was harming him seriously then after Hanadagi’s extermination –in which is totally understandable to use the sword because he was a PB so he had no other choice to finish him - Aido-dono was just a noble vampire i.e. Kaname could have had finished him with just a blow without the use of any anti-vampire weapon … moreover when this weapon supposedly would harm him further. ????

Don’t know … at least for me doesn’t gel well the whole thing lol.

I would love to hear your ideas there , but before this let me state to you my own hesitations with this theory which I had though in the past but i got stacked at the below points;

Neither Sara can kill him, neither Hana...

She stated that she needed the hunter's weapon (so her intention did seem that she wanted her new slave killed)...

Haha … I do not think that my ideas would be something new for you but I’ll give it a try … maybe I will trigger your imagination more lol.
And I have my reservations too about the relation master/servant between Sara and Hana being the reason of why he should have been killed.

However I was thinking that there is a difference between Kaname/Rido’s case and Hanadagi/Sara’s … Sara actually has stolen Hanadagi’s heart i.e. his powers … something that it didn’t happen in Kaname’s awakening by Rido.

Of course this might be irrelevant but keep it in mind.

But let’s review that scene again:

Sara to Hanadagi: “You’ve already awakened, right? It’s troublesome… As I thought a hunter’s hand is needed to give you a finishing blow, don’t you think? Hanadagi sama.”

1. She say’s that Hanadagi’s awakening it is troublesome i.e. could this mean that she wasn’t sure that Hana will woke?
2. However she thought about that, this possibility might occur and even if her life wasn’t in danger due to the relation master/”servant”; still Hanadagi as a witness could have had blew her façade … so isn’t to wonder how she had planned to get rid of Hanadagi? >>

Thus this rationale leads me to think that Sara somehow knew/figured/expected that Kaname (a replacement of a hunter’s hand) would be bound to step in and finish Hanadagi.
The question though is why? And this “why” navigates me to the guard’s stance later who said “If it wasn’t for that female fox’s attack … master would NOT have been killed.”

And to add something more … note how desperate the guard seems in her attempt to stop Sara from attacking to her master >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/19
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/22

>> why so much desperation??? And I’ll repeat … Hanadagi could have had perfectly go on living even after Sara had stolen his heart. So I can only explain the guard’s desperation if she knew that her master’s awakening was equal somehow to death????
Note another cue from the previous chapter >>

Guard: “Although I couldn’t see master in his final moments…”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/26

>> although she couldn’t see his death; was she certain about his end???

I’m leaving this trace for now here…

I agree with your observation that Sara probably wanted Hana dead since either way her ultimate goal is the extinction of all the PBs, plus at that point she didn’t want to leave any trace behind…

However another question that arises, is why Hanadagi specifically? Why not Hio for example who was as well into slumber; or why not any other PB in slumber? Moreover since in order to attack at Hanadagi’s castle she should have to kill first another PB > Ouri. << All these makes me think that Hanadagi wasn’t a random choice … on the contrary was a very calculated choice.

Sara to Hanadagi: But it’s okay with me because I received this heart in which most power was gathered from you.”

Now what I understand from the above portions is that Sara wanted to gain Hanadagi’s powers and not to use him further … at least not an alive Hanadagi … I think she had to gain more from his death, especially if the one who would appear that was responsible for his death would be Kaname.

Therefore my questions are >>

1. She wanted Hanadagi specifically for his particular powers?
2. Or she chose Hanadagi due to a relation that he might have had with Kaname? (just to remind that Kaname was monitoring Hanadagi’s castle much earlier)
3. Or for both of the above reasons; killing two birds with one stone?

Here I’m divided lol. However I’m leaning more to the 3rd option.

- Hanadagi’s special power.
The only that we’ve seen from him is that he hypnotized Aido-dono … a power that all the PBs have. But what IF this scene was a hint for a more superior power that could give further mind control even without an eye-contact?

A prime example is the state of mind of the users of the dark-tablets. They seemed to be in a “trance” and addicted to tablets i.e. to her blood.

However this side-effect could stem from her own blood but if so then why she consumed Hanadagi’s heart?

Another point that might indicate that Sara’s own power to control through her blood it wasn’t so effective is Takuma. While he drank her blood when she captured him still the scene with Takuma and Yuuki, where he tried to warn her about Sara’s tablets it is a hint that Sara had failed to control him >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/20
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/21
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/22
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/24

Thus after that scene Sara forces Takuma to drank her blood again i.e. her blood that now contains and Hanadagi’s powers through his heart that she had consumed>>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/29

>>Takuma says that till now he had managed to resist her >>
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/73/31

And that it is true to a certain degree cuz if we compare the Takuma till he drinks from her for the second time and the Takuma afterwards there are visible differences >>

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/74/26
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/3
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/76/29
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/78/11


Anyway … my estimation is that after that scene Sara gained even further control over Takuma …

Well this is what I have for now … any ideas are welcomed lol.

Our points match Nina ...here my own also estimations at Shizuka's case

https://vampireknight.all-up.com/t6p140-zero-or-kaname#26520

I know I wonder why though

PS. Did you edit your post adding more? I think you did but just now saw it lol.


@KuranPrince thank you. And btw … superb avatar and siggy ^.~


EDIT:

Juliet wrote: Hanadagi normally should wake up normally as Isaya did and take his guardian's blood in order to revive and get back memories that he lost...
.
.
a common problem with the purebloods as Isaya had stated to Kaien; "Having so much time on my hands made me lose sight of my reason for living, and i stopped doing anything. Its a typical pureblood situation"...

and Ouri had the same problem because Sara says to Takuma that he expected death since he had become tired of this life.

and when they are bored to death they enter slumber so that they can rest. Kaname had the same (sort of) reaction being too tired to go on, even though as it is depicted at the manga, Kaname lost abrupty his reason for living...

You know what; … isn’t it like they set an inner alarm for their awakening?

From Kaien’s words to Isaya that he knew that it was about his time to wake up … doesn’t seem like the PBs can control this function?

Also Hanadagi’s guard says that her master had planned to sleep for another 500 years … seems like a pattern to me.

Note though that Kaname says different >>

Kaname: “I decided to enter a slumber I had no intention of EVER waking from.”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-57201-27/vampire-knight/chapter-64.html

So, I do not know if their slumber is necessarily an indication for a death wish … if so, then why to set a certain period of slumber? Why Kaname says otherwise?

Thus I think that yes, due to their longevity they worn out and they need slumber from time to time, but not necessarily death.

On the other hand though … I do not know what it means if their slumber is abruptly and violently stopped …?

I wonder if Ruka and Kain investigated the castle to see how much interest Hanadagi had in the common life...according to Sara's words and also according to what we see from being in slumber Hanadagi had lost also his interested in living...so Kaname might be expecting a hit there just by knowing that Sara would use an easy target there as she did with Ouri> he saw the pattern...

Hmm… actually I have the opposite opinion … as I said above I find Hanadagi not at all an easy target for Sara and I’m basing my estimation on Hanadagi’s icy shield.
Sara had to set a stage in Kaname’s ball –with so many hunters around – in order to kill Ouri and take his powers which would “unlock” Hanadagi’s castle.

Even Hanadagi himself was stunned from Sara’s achievement.

As I see it, I think she had put herself into too much trouble and risk there lol. Except IF every PB has a shield around its castle and for Sara was easier to destroy Hanadagi’s due to her relation with Ouri whose powers were the key. But we do not have any indication for that … in fact we didn’t see any shield around the Kurans mansion or Isaya’s for example.

Plus all those panels where is depicted Hanadagi’s castle are giving me the vibe that Hana’s case hides more … too much screen-time and implications from his death, if you ask me, for being just a simple PB >> Kaname sets his plan in motion with Hanadagi’s case …

Also … personally judging from Hanadagi’s reaction after his awakening I don’t get the feeling that he was a peaceful PB who had no interest in life. Also why he had planned to wake up after 500 years?

And Yuuki's idea as a reaper seems to come after reflecting that the purebloods who have lost their will to live, suffer and in their effort to escape eternal life, they can use innocents, therefore she volunteers.

Actually I always have been wondered about the purpose/importance of this scene … was it just to indicate Yuuki’s naivety and where this could have led her; or was just a prelude thus we cannot estimate how have influenced the development?

Anyway … yes Yuuki, influenced from Ouri’s supposedly suicide and Kaname’s narration about PBs’ view of life came up with that idea. But note what Isaya says to her >>

Isaya: “What you’re trying to do will seem meaningless and foolhardy to most …

You do realize … you risk being the one having your head cut off here?”

Isaya’s words for me seem a warning to Yuuki and if so then his words giving a picture that not so many PBs would accept Yuuki’s services lol.

However I agree with this>>

Despite though her good intentions look at Touma's words;

" The stage is finally getting set for a bloody scene that is much more to my liking. So you get it now? Don't hamper my enjoyment of watching the drama unfold".

I think that now we can better interpret his words. So what is actually confessing but his own agreement with Sara’s side?

Yes … Touma seems like he waiting for this bloody scene which actually had started with Ouri’s death << and I cannot not to notice > why Touma is speaking about a bloody stage since the official and known explanation for Ouri’s death was suicide and not a murder! ????

Also another question that pops out from what Touma says is how can Yuuki’s so peaceful suggestion interfere with Touma’s enjoyment? How could she ever cause damage?

Was anyone there that Touma knew that was likely to accept her suggestion and had to stop her from providing the peaceful solution?

So in orther words Yuuki’s solution would put an end at the pieces that Sara needed to use in order to create all the conditions for her stage? Isn’t that what actually Touma says to her?

And if Yuuki had provided a solution then Sara could not place the blame on Kaname for the killings, neither create all of this conflict, so Yuuki had to be removed from that stage according to Touma’s speech.

Well Touma wanted also to provoke Kaname because he also says to Kaname; "“ a direct attack on the castle is a tantamount to a declaration of war. Don’t tell me the young leader doesn’t know?” , of course he does LOL .

But his line to Yuuki according IMO betrays all of his intentions; can Yuuki's plan that was so suddenly canceled to hold a greater gravity than the one that we have placed so far? Only speaking my thoughts here.

Hmm… could it be so simple? If Yuuki’s services actually could have had found so many clients lol I think that VK world wouldn’t be so bloody and violent … I mean if the PBs who are the biggest root for all this bloodshed were so “peaceful” that actually would accept gladly Yuuki’s offer then from were it stems all this violence or Kaname’s dreadful fears?

Thus my interpretation of Touma’s words and action to wound her was to threaten/scared her but not cuz of her reaper service but for what this move of hers signified > her pacifism … an ideal which would bring her sooner or later against this bloody scene which just have had set in motion > Sara.

In Touma’s eyes Yuuki was a representative of the Kurans and her action to grab her Artemis in order to take a few lives BUT saving and protecting more, confirms to him, for another time, that the Kurans are the obstacle to their likes ---> blood, humans like meals, violence and dominance.

Actually my opinion is that Yuuki’s idea was so foolish that even if she had found some clients … who they would be? A PB who would have accepted such offer wouldn’t be a peaceful one? Like Isaya for example? Or like Ouri who as far as we know he lived peacefully thus according to Sara had lost any will to go on living?

So who she would have ended up killing?

It’s like what Sara is doing with her tablets > the users are probably the vampires who were pro coexistence like the NC.

Also from Hanadagi’s case … his high protection, his guard desperate volition to revenge for her master’s death … or from Hio’s reaction to Kaname’s attack I do not get the feeling that the PBs who even were in slumber, were willing to lose their lives so easily.

Therefore my interpretation is that what Touma did or what Sara is doing are provocations to the Kurans ideals > it was a declaration of “war” or at least of an opposition to the new condition that had started to re-establish > Kaname the leader > Yuuki’s pacifism > new treaty for coexistence >>> i.e. the party was over!

Look what Isaya says to Yuuki >>

“Why you won’t choose to do nothing?”

Would she? I don’t think so … thus I said above that Yuuki’s reaper services could be just a prelude lol.

When is the scanlation for chapter 79 gonna be out? to be very soon!

lililovelilica wrote:When is the scanlation for chapter 79 gonna be out? to be very soon!

the scanlations for chapter 79 are online already - it's been days since then.

lililovelilica wrote:When is the scanlation for chapter 79 gonna be out? to be very soon!

seems like you haven´t noticed it yet, but I will give you the link:
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/79

So, I do not know if their slumber is necessarily an indication for a death wish … if so, then why to set a certain period of slumber? Why Kaname says otherwise?

Thus I think that yes, due to their longevity they worn out and they need slumber from time to time, but not necessarily death.

M…I do not know either, I just take different paths of thinking just in case we perhaps have underestimated some things and I try to blend them with already facts and lines that we have; its more like an experimenting thinking to see where this thing is going by just picking some clues here and there….

Okay so here we go…

On the other hand though … I do not know what it means if their slumber is abruptly and violently stopped …?

I kept this quote of yours here separately because it’s the “experimental” thought that I was heading….

What does it mean if their slumber is abruptly and violently stopped?

And here I shall repeat the lines of the manga that we have seen before and I want to ask why does Hino places so much persistence to highlight scenes and to state all over again the gravity of time to purebloods?

-A known case is Ouri

-Another case is Kaname (whatever happened he felt so dry and tired that he could not go on)

(I shall not place the quotes here to focus more on Hana)

-Hanadagi’ s case in reality has nothing different than Ouri’s….

Viz Volume 11:

The guardians welcome to Ruka and Kain starts with; “You’ve come to wake up my master. If you won’t leave I will reduce you to ashes…”

See the importance that the guardian places at Hana’s sleep?

How does the guardian justify this attack to Kain and Ruka and how does she explain why she is so overprotecting over her master?


“We all need a long rest every now and then to continue this never-ending journey…If we get to spend…everything will start to wear out…”

Then the panel continues with Kaname’s ancestor scene and his full of despair thoughts (like a continuation or a confirmation to the guardian’s words…)

“Everything will wear out and fall out of my hands…”

Don't the two realizations match significantly?

Some scenes before when Kaname was talking to Yuuki about time defeating the purebloods, even the ones that had families, we know that Hanadagi’s castle was again depicted…

Coincidence?

Also Sara’s words towards the sleeping Hana;

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/20

“After Ouri-Sama you are the next, you are probably bored with this life right?”

I think that the seal was protecting the same thing that the guardian protected as well; her master’s sleep. ( I am referring to his powers later on at the post)

So IMO and by reading the above lines I draw the conclusion that Hana was worn out due to time or perhaps due to events of the past (which side he was we do not know) and had lost his will to live at that current moment just as Isaya had stated to Kain, by describing his own situation;

"Having so much time on my hands made me lose sight of my reason for living, and i stopped doing anything. Its a typical pureblood situation"...

Here Isaya confesses that he had lost his reason for living, yet he actually slept far less than Hanadagi, 50 years whereas Hanadagi wished to be in slumber for 400 years more! (from the official version ) and we have no idea how many years he has been sleeping already since Sara had expected him to find him dry.

Kaname expressed an even more desperate condition and probably slept far more but if this all do not show (in variety modes according to the subject LOL) the fact that these pureblood had lost their will to continue living (at that place and time), what does?

Its not just a little rest, its like entering a death mode when death is no real option but preserve the hope that after slumber, they will have accommodated the will to live once again….

And that’s a hope that even Kaname who has the ability to die preserved. (hope, dies last Kaname? )

But, what I see is that they should have the time to revive…to reach again the stage where the “will to continue” shall be refreshed and the guardian seems to place a great importance there, so much importance that she was willing to sacrifice herself and even when wounded she was calling for her master’s peace.

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/22

How can all these be linked now with the current chapter where the guardian puts the sin on Sara’s shoulder’s for her master’s murder?

I am not sure yet but we see this importance repeated again and again, the reason seems to be that they need time to recharge their will for living, otherwise perhaps all “wear out and fall?” again as Kaname says?

I think that Hanadagi can combine multiple “advantages” as you say as a victim, he might be an easy victim with exceptional powers, as you said that would have an effect at Sara’s tablets (very good observation with Takuma, you are right and I had not realized it), therefore Hana could be just the right person for the job.

Also concerning his seal that you mentioned, certainly one reason was to be protected during slumber…and his powers also, because even if he had preferred to take a break from living, I do not think that with or without being killed, he would like his powers to be devoured by others and used against his wishes.

You do realize … you risk being the one having your head cut off here?”

Isaya’s words for me seem a warning to Yuuki and if so then his words giving a picture that not so many PBs would accept Yuuki’s services lol.

Yes but on what grounds they would not accept that?

On the fact that Yuuki states such a thing or that this service could resolute to a peaceful way to end suffering, thus the more vicious ones such as Touma for example, would not permit her services (as we saw happening) because they become an obstacle to the more advanced stage settings that they have been preparing? or shall prepare?

Meaning what’s the real warning about? Because as we see peaceful vampires such as Isaya might be surprised by that act but in reality they are harmless all the way…and the more vicious ones why to get offended by that since as you say her clientele would be limited to peaceful vampires that resort to peaceful ways so it would be Yuuki or slumber, right?

So to whom are her intentions a threat?
And why?

“Why you won’t choose to do nothing?”

Would she? I don’t think so … thus I said above that Yuuki’s reaper services could be just a prelude lol.

“

Again a very strange line to say to someone whose services shall be ignored, honestly how is Yuuki considered to “do anything at all” in a realistic way?

It’s not intentions that make the difference but actions. If her intentions have no audience, in reality there is no difference and therefore she is doing nothing at all, after all no reason to worry about. So why is it considered risky in the first place?

Unless and only here I can see a realistic effect of Yuuki’s plan, her peaceful “ending” did not permit to the ones that wanted to created “bloody scenes” and to set the stage accordingly to set it. Why?

Because the pawns or the victims would be dead, therefore less room for manipulation, abuse, lies and conspiracies on the back of others.

Example Sara would not kill Ouri and sacrifice an innoncent hunter if Ouri at his time of despair had decided to end his life…
Same with Hanadagi…now his guardian would not suffer, perhaps Kaname’s plan would not be triggered….
In combination this plan would fail, since Sara would not gave gotten Ouri’s powers in the first place.

So Yuuki’s decision can indeed play a significant role by prohibiting exactly what she said to Isaya: more victims to exist.

Wouldn't that make her a certain target?

Anyway, what I try to see is there is a connection that could tie the ends here, Sara’s plans, Yuuki’s decision, Touma’s attack ect with a more realistic dimension. Since the script places a significance to the purebloods “despair” and Yuuki decides to give an end to their suffering, I am trying to think who and why her plan did not fit and had to be stopped out or if it continued who it might effect.

So who she would have ended up killing?

LOL, ah do not say that, haha, I see Sara being the first client there, if she loses the throne, I see her crawling to the floors …for a piece of Artemis….its a matter of pride after all...

Juliet wrote: M…I do not know either, I just take different paths of thinking just in case we perhaps have underestimated some things and I try to blend them with already facts and lines that we have; its more like an experimenting thinking to see where this thing is going by just picking some clues here and there….

Okay … then I shall play my role here … trying to present some counterarguments haha

I’ve given some thought to your idea about Yuuki’s services as an “angel of death” lol thus I refrained from answering earlier.

From what I can understand your rationale is basing mainly on one precondition >> that Yuuki’s reaper act was a plan that actually could work thus and the opposition she received from Touma at least.

Questions/ Random thoughts

I was thinking how Touma knew about Yuuki’s reaper service? Or didn’t he actually know about it and his attack wasn’t triggered from Yuuki’s act at all?

Juliet wrote:

You do realize … you risk being the one having your head cut off here?”

Isaya’s words for me seem a warning to Yuuki and if so then his words giving a picture that not so many PBs would accept Yuuki’s services lol.

Yes but on what grounds they would not accept that?

What grounds; hm…

Let’s see … It is not only Isaya who saw Yuuki’s plan/proposal as “provocative” and tried to warn her for a possible outcome … Kaien and Hanabusa shed some sweat as well.

Hanabusa’s reaction>>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-43743-32/vampire-knight/chapter-57.html

Kaien >>
http://www.mangareader.net/104-47679-9/vampire-knight/chapter-58.html


And Kaname’s words too are on the same direction>>

“That girl is much too reckless and naïve. She needed to learn caution.”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-52342-3/vampire-knight/chapter-61.html

So from the above reactions I get the message that Yuuki’s reaper service would have had perceived from many PBs (the most as Isaya said) as provocation thus and she was at danger to be her head cut off lol.

Now even if her plan could have found some “willing customers” hence she would have spoiled the preparations of a bloody stage that some of them might want (as Sara or Touma) using the PBs who have lost their will to live … still there would be many that would react on Yuuki’s proposal. Because an anti-vampire weapon it is a provocation from itself. Isn’t it one of the reasons of why the Kurans were the targets? Isn’t one of the reasons that more than half of their population lost their lives back in the past?
So, seeing Yuuki swaying her Artemis, demonstrating the source of their “misery and failure” IMO it is a provocation.

Also … except from Ouri who had a relation with Sara and thus Sara had an opportunity there, she took advantage of Hanadagi as well who was in slumber. If we accept that the slumber is an indication of a wish death then Yuuki’s services automatically excludes these PBs since she would have gone door by door asking who needs to rest in peace haha … So actually she would address to PBs who are active.

So there are still many “easy victims” for Sara to use in order to create conflicts and advance the bloody stage. Cuz as you said and I agree even the ones who chose slumber and even if this choice is an indication of resignation still they wouldn’t want to be tools or victims i.e. they would react causing conflicts. In other words Sara would have still the opportunity to unfold her game.

Plus … doesn’t Sara want to annihilate all the PBs? Doesn’t she need a hunter’s hand for that purpose? As I see it Yuuki’s plan could work in Sara’s favor and in two directions:

- Wiping off the peaceful ones who had lost interest in life and Yuuki would have offered them an outlet lol.

- Provoking conflicts or oppositions from the PBs who would view her service as provocation << i.e. the bloody stage could even be prepared from Yuuki. And thinking out loud here … wouldn’t that be even more advantageous for Sara’s game? Wouldn’t be great for her if she could turn some PBs against the Kurans? Doesn’t she try that by framing Kaname?

Therefore I said previously >>

Thus my interpretation of Touma’s words and action to wound her was to threaten/scared her but not cuz of her reaper service but for what this move of hers signified > her pacifism … an ideal which would bring her sooner or later against this bloody scene which just have had set in motion > Sara.

In Touma’s eyes Yuuki was a representative of the Kurans and her action to grab her Artemis in order to take a few lives BUT saving and protecting more, confirms to him, for another time, that the Kurans are the obstacle to their likes ---> blood, humans like meals, violence and dominance.

In short my feeling is that Touma’s violent reaction wasn’t addressed to Yuuki’s services literally but to what symbolized her decision or even her presence itself.

And I’m connecting Touma’s attack also with Kaname’s wording about the purposes of the soiree:
1. Yuuki’s presentation
2. Showing to everyone who he is determined to protect > Yuuki
3. Count enemies and friends according to the attendances in the soiree AFTER the sign of the new treaty.

And bottom line … isn’t the Kuran’s ideals one of the reasons that PBs lost interest in life? And I mean from a PB’s perspective who thought that the deprivation of their violent nature leads to a slow death?

Now … saying all the above doesn’t mean that I do not agree with your observation that PB’s immortality it is a source for many issues. It is also “framed” for their violent games and schemes >> as Sara said … this is a PBs’ game who have too much time in their hands lol.

But I’ll tell you another time where this issue leads me…

Could Yuuki yielding Artemis and offering to kill the purebloods who lost their will to life be considered by some to be the restart of the Pureblood Vampire War ?

In the past the Kurans ( or at least Kaname ) were the main responsables to help humans to exterminate most of the purebloods who were harming humans . Artemis was used for this . Only imagine if a Vampire Princess / Queen ( maybe similar in appearance to Yuuki ) did used Artemis during that war . Not exactly good memories for the oldest purebloods who survived the war . And Touma is not really a kid pureblood . He said he is more older than he looks . He could know about Artemis being the weapon to kill many of his own people .

In short my feeling is that Touma’s violent reaction wasn’t addressed to Yuuki’s services literally but to what symbolized her decision or even her presence itself.

And I’m connecting Touma’s attack also with Kaname’s wording about the purposes of the soiree:
1. Yuuki’s presentation
2. Showing to everyone who he is determined to protect > Yuuki
3. Count enemies and friends according to the attendances in the soiree AFTER the sign of the new treaty.

And bottom line … isn’t the Kuran’s ideals one of the reasons that PBs lost interest in life? And I mean from a PB’s perspective who thought that the deprivation of their violent nature leads to a slow death?

Of course, the Kurans are and were always the peace representatives between people and vampires, also Kaien refers to that when he uses Yuuki’s heritage and name in order to move on her shoulders the role that Kaname held just before leaving. I think that we have exhausted this matter speaking theoretically but also practically about the nature of the Kurans, their opposition with the plans of the more blod-thirsty vampires, and we have stretched the issue in many ways.

So what you say is the fundamental element of the Kurans nature. What I try in a way to see is the other side of the same coin.

Meaning; this role that Yuuki had decided to play, why did it scare and provoke? Was it a role randomly attributed to her just to show her future path and the awakening of her Kuran blood? Or was it exactly at that time the wrong decision that could turn her to a victim and a target due to the very practical dangers and implications that it could/would create at the near future?

Let’s not forget that the script has a rich way to go and I cannot believe that Hino depicted a random decision from Yuuki that was followed by a random attack by Touma. I think that they are all connected to each other and Touma is a very mysterious figure.

Haha, you know I could stretch these arguments forever…

And Kaname’s words too are on the same direction>>

“That girl is much too reckless and naïve. She needed to learn caution.”
http://www.mangareader.net/104-52342-3/vampire-knight/chapter-61.html

So from the above reactions I get the message that Yuuki’s reaper service would have had perceived from many PBs (the most as Isaya said) as provocation thus and she was at danger to be her head cut off lol.

Or she is too naïve to understand that the purebloods shall not allow to peaceful ways and intentions to grow and mature, because as I said that can be an obstacle in the plans of many/ a barrier in expressing their own violent nature?

Kaname also says to her “the world that you see is different from the world that I see”, “you must realize that there are times your efforts will amount to nothing, no matter how hard you try”…”I am afraid that you’ll give up your life for some meaningless Yuuki”.

Why is he going over these things? My readings>

“the world that you see is different from the world that I see” > He knows that they shall not allow to her to stand in the way...that's who they are, but Yuuki does not see the intentions that lurk around her; thus she does not recognize in their nature their intention to live on by creating victims on their paths

“you must realize that there are times your efforts will amount to nothing, no matter how hard you try”> no matter how hard you try to bring change, they shall not accept it, its meaningless

”I am afraid that you’ll give up your life for some meaningless Yuuki”> she may end up giving her own life for a change that is impossible to be achieved.

What is the meaningless that he refers to? I think the change at the vampires' condition > words that he had stated in the senate> even after my slumber the condition of the vampires has not changed.

I neither believe here that Kaname’s fears are just fears, he knows that Yuuki’s decision is not a light one (not because she shall provoke them by wielding Artemis to their face) but because she will stand in the way of superior plans and wont hesitate to give up her life for defending her values> as she does not wish to see any more victims she is risking the great danger of becoming a victim herself.

So my opinion is that Yuuki’s decision brought already signs of change > by having the ambition to change the way purebloods deal with despair and by wishing not to allow further manipulation of the desperate and the innocents ones.

In other words Yuuki’s decision was double risky due to provocation but also due to the change that it offered. It was not lets a say a sign of her future path, I believe that this was a very proof of her present path, with all the implications that it involved.

except from Ouri who had a relation with Sara and thus Sara had an opportunity there, she took advantage of Hanadagi as well who was in slumber.

She took Hanadagi because she had Ouri’s power, if let’s imagibe Yuuki’s services had been offered sooner, Sara would have lost her great opportunity to get Hanadagi, and all of her great opportunity to create a chaos.

If we accept that the slumber is an indication of a wish death then Yuuki’s services automatically excludes these PBs since she would have gone door by door asking who needs to rest in peace haha … So actually she would address to PBs who are active.

At the current script (yet), we can only imagine what would have happened if Yuuki’s plan had been applied > but by seeing that (even though currently has no practical value), I think it can help us see the gravity of her decision, and this is the point that I want to highlight;
To say that her plan was not foolish, if there was a way that it could have been applied before, certain circumstances would have been prevented and so we can estimate better how Yuuki’s services could have saved the day or can in the future. So why not to appreciate also that side?

Provoking conflicts or oppositions from the PBs who would view her service as provocation << i.e. the bloody stage could even be prepared from Yuuki. And thinking out loud here … wouldn’t that be even more advantageous for Sara’s game? Wouldn’t be great for her if she could turn some PBs against the Kurans? Doesn’t she try that by framing Kaname?

No, I think that Sara wants to take the powers and put the blame to a very specific Kuran, Kaname who is her major opponent. As long as Kaname is standing on her way, Sara is blocked.

If she “hurt” Yuuki, no matter what Kaname waited from Sara in order to move with his plan, he would not allow her to see another day, (as you say he made that clear to the ball), so if she had seriously dragged Yuuki to her carriot as she does right now with him, we would not know at which phase her plan would stop> remember that Sara says that Kaname shall kill her the moment she steps his boundaries (sort of?)…

But on the other hand, a clear, peaceful and in accordance death between a pureblood and Yuuki, would leave Sara with nothing to manipulate. Powers? No. Put the blame to some one else? No. Create a crime scene? No. Everything stops there and everything is transparent. No implications, no innocent lives taken or used> I think that this was what Yuuki was trying to achieve there.

But she missed the fact that the vampire society would not see through such a change as lightly as she tried to achieved it and she also missed the risk involved, well you can not play “the rescue team” if you are not willing to sacrifice something, a head, a leg, an arm…LOL

In the past the Kurans ( or at least Kaname ) were the main responsables to help humans to exterminate most of the purebloods who were harming humans . Artemis was used for this . Only imagine if a Vampire Princess / Queen ( maybe similar in appearance to Yuuki ) did used Artemis during that war . Not exactly good memories for the oldest purebloods who survived the war . And Touma is not really a kid pureblood . He said he is more older than he looks . He could know about Artemis being the weapon to kill many of his own people .

Artemis, could trigger old memories and it is a very powerful sign; your observation made me think if this role that Yuuki wanted to take, was something really new? and here you make me imagine that perhaps the Vampire Queen in the past had a certain role as such...(what i am saying right now can be a nice fanfic instead of a theory but i wanted to say it ). Anyway her decision, I do not see it as random, perhaps full of dangers, but in the past also many purebloods lost their will to live and Kaname also narrate and added that point in her question about how the number of the purebloods had so much decreased.

Now about the war issue question; Touma says to Kaname that an intrusion to his castle equals war, so in my belief, no Yuuki did not trigger that button since she would be going everywhere as a guest;

i would put the blame on her intention to change, not on the anti-vampire, to be honest.

On the other hand as I said, her peaceful intentions were more the problem itself, as no pureblood which bad intentions that wants to cherish eternity by playing war games can have Yuuki putting an end to this bloody game, before it even starts. Where is the fan of life in that?

I am sorry for tiring you; I just wanted to stretch the importance that at least I see in Yuuki’s decision, now if Hino shall use that in her script we shall see. I am closing the topic by saying that I consider her decision double risky because she opens many fronts there, as she steps in unknown waters but not foolish, as it targets right at the heart of the problem; the effects of time on purebloods; this is currently Sara's weapon and her opponents weak point; Ouri and Hana..and its a miracle in reality how Yuuki, without knowing anything of all the games that go on around her, takes a decision to stop that "source" of pain and misery, even if she does not realize the implications.

Juliet wrote: I neither believe here that Kaname’s fears are just fears, he knows that Yuuki’s decision is not a light one (not because she shall provoke them by wielding Artemis to their face) but because she will stand in the way of superior plans and wont hesitate to give up her life for defending her values> as she does not wish to see any more victims she is risking the great danger of becoming a victim herself.

So my opinion is that Yuuki’s decision brought already signs of change > by having the ambition to change the way purebloods deal with despair and by wishing not to allow further manipulation of the desperate and the innocents ones.

In other words Yuuki’s decision was double risky due to provocation but also due to the change that it offered. It was not lets a say a sign of her future path, I believe that this was a very proof of her present path, with all the implications that it involved.

You know … I’ll keep and underline this portion ^^^ cuz it shows that regardless the paths that we follow with our rationales we’re reaching on the same conclusion as you described it above.

And I’ll just add Yuuki’s own words which IMO reinforcing the above conclusion and that not only she wants to deal with the miserable PBs but she wants to bring an overall change>>

Yuuki: “I don’t want PBs creating victims … someone making a victim of someone else I don’t want that. Seeing others lost in misery I don’t want that.
.
.
I mean to save others from being killed for no good reason! I want to change something … so I have to be the ONE to act.
.
.
If I do not do something … this world will consume me…” (official volume 12 chap. 57 & 58 )

Juliet wrote:

mariangie wrote: In the past the Kurans ( or at least Kaname ) were the main responsables to help humans to exterminate most of the purebloods who were harming humans . Artemis was used for this . Only imagine if a Vampire Princess / Queen ( maybe similar in appearance to Yuuki ) did used Artemis during that war. Not exactly good memories for the oldest purebloods who survived the war . And Touma is not really a kid pureblood . He said he is more older than he looks . He could know about Artemis being the weapon to kill many of his own people

Artemis, could trigger old memories and it is a very powerful sign; your observation made me think if this role that Yuuki wanted to take, was something really new? and here you make me imagine that perhaps the Vampire Queen in the past had a certain role as such...(what i am saying right now can be a nice fanfic instead of a theory but i wanted to say it ).

And I on my turn am really glad that you two mentioned this speculation (even if it might worth only as a material for a fanfic ) cuz I can see that I’m not the only one with crazy ideas here hahahaha

And just to add more fuels on the fire here what triggered my imagination at least, towards this direction as well .

It was a line from Isaya when he compared Juuri with Yuuki lol >>

Isaya: “A thick shadow lies over her, yet she has the smell of sunlight. It’s similar BUT DIFFERENT from Juuri, who smelled of the sun’s flames…” (volume 12, chap. 58 )

In what this thick shadow could refer to?

Hi there guys!I've been reading your comments about last chapter and I actually found all your assumptions quite inspiring. Now, I have some doubts I'd gladly bring up to you 'cos I guess I missed something in the plot.

1)What might Sara have revealed to Zero as to draw him to her side?In chapter 77 he tells her :"even if you hide it, I'll definitely find them"...what is to be found?O.o and why a couple of scenes later he states "I won't let you lay a hand on Sara"...what's the business between them both?

2)In last chapter Takuma speaking to Kaname says:"you can leave it to Sara from now on, right Kaname?". There I got lost again 'cos to me it sounds as if Sara and Kaname might be part of the same big plan decided by someone else.

I'll be thankful to whoever makes it all clearer to me.

Yuukieee wrote:
1)What might Sara have revealed to Zero as to draw him to her side?In chapter 77 he tells her :"even if you hide it, I'll definitely find them"...what is to be found?O.o and why a couple of scenes later he states "I won't let you lay a hand on Sara"...what's the business between them both?

What exactly Sara told Zero we do not know. But from what Zero told later to Yuuki and from his questions to Kaname we assume that Sara told Zero that Kaname released Shizuka from her cage.

Now if Sara went further than that … as for example saying that Kaname did it in order to harm the Kiryuus, is unknown.
The point is that even if Kaname indeed freed Shizuka, when he did it, Shizuka’s lover was still alive. They escaped together from their cage i.e. couldn’t have done it thinking to let Shizuka attack at the Kiryuus since the Kiryuus hadn’t killed her lover yet.

So Kaname’s motive is still unknown despite that he said that did it in order Shizuka to attack to the Kiryuu’s family. From the facts that we know … this part it is a lie.

2)In last chapter Takuma speaking to Kaname says:"you can leave it to Sara from now on, right Kaname?". There I got lost again 'cos to me it sounds as if Sara and Kaname might be part of the same big plan decided by someone else.

Supposedly a part of Kaname’s plan is to annihilate all the PBs, something that Sara also planning to do as she said. So I think Takuma’s words were referring on that … to let Kaname, Sara do the “work” for him while he should take Yuuki far away and disappear.

I hope I’ve helped lol.

Thank you for answering nina I see your points but Im still perplexed about Zero-Sara's business, 'cos even if Sara would tell Zero it's all Kaname's fault if his parents died, this would stil not explain as for why Zero is willing to protect her, I mean, she's the one overdoing with her PB powers in order to harm the world, so either Zero is pretending to be on her side while he's got a plan in mind to neutralize Sara later on or he's been doped(maybe during some scene we've not been allowed to see). But option 1 maybe is the most probable, otherwise I would not explain how a defender of truth and justice such as Zero would team up with an evil char like Sara. Hopefully in chap 80 we'll be able to find out what is it tha Sara is hiding from Zero and that he's looking for

Yuukieee wrote:Thank you for answering nina I see your points but Im still perplexed about Zero-Sara's business, 'cos even if Sara would tell Zero it's all Kaname's fault if his parents died, this would stil not explain as for why Zero is willing to protect her, I mean, she's the one overdoing with her PB powers in order to harm the world, so either Zero is pretending to be on her side while he's got a plan in mind to neutralize Sara later on or he's been doped(maybe during some scene we've not been allowed to see). But option 1 maybe is the most probable, otherwise I would not explain how a defender of truth and justice such as Zero would team up with an evil char like Sara. Hopefully in chap 80 we'll be able to find out what is it tha Sara is hiding from Zero and that he's looking for

Why is Zero siding with Sara ?

Well , they have an enemy in common : Kaname . As they said :the enemy of your enemy is your friend .

Sara needs the strongest vampire hunter available to her side to kill Kaname . Sara as White Queen needs a White " Vampire Knight " to be at her side to protect her . Kaname as Black King is the main person who could oppose and kill Sara . As he could use anti - vampire weapons as a vampire hunter . Sara can't . She will lost spectaculary in a fight against Kaname . Sara had identify Zero as the ideal person to aid her . He is the strongest vampire hunter . He has a lot of power after ingesting pureblood blood . And the most important : he hates Kaname the most .

Zero wants Kaname as dead as he can . Zero hates Kaname the most . Most than any other vampire alive . I don't need to say why . I suppose most people here know . Zero only refrained from killing Kaname because of Yuuki's interference . But Zero hates purebloods in general . He would not help Sara just because she is pretty . Or fall to her usual magical tricks . Sara did need to use a strong reason for Zero falling at her side believing he was the one who chosen that road . This is when the Kaname was the reason of all your misfortune speech came as plan . And it works as a charm . Zero felt for this .

Zero now thinks helping Sara for a while is in his best interest of killing Kaname . Most probably he only consider this alliance of sorts temporary . When Zero gets what he wanted ; he probably believes its only matter of destroying Sara to get out . Pretty easy for him in paper .

mariangie wrote:

Yuukieee wrote:Thank you for answering nina I see your points but Im still perplexed about Zero-Sara's business, 'cos even if Sara would tell Zero it's all Kaname's fault if his parents died, this would stil not explain as for why Zero is willing to protect her, I mean, she's the one overdoing with her PB powers in order to harm the world, so either Zero is pretending to be on her side while he's got a plan in mind to neutralize Sara later on or he's been doped(maybe during some scene we've not been allowed to see). But option 1 maybe is the most probable, otherwise I would not explain how a defender of truth and justice such as Zero would team up with an evil char like Sara. Hopefully in chap 80 we'll be able to find out what is it tha Sara is hiding from Zero and that he's looking for

Why is Zero siding with Sara ?

Well , they have an enemy in common : Kaname . As they said :the enemy of your enemy is your friend .

Sara needs the strongest vampire hunter available to her side to kill Kaname . Sara as White Queen needs a White " Vampire Knight " to be at her side to protect her . Kaname as Black King is the main person who could oppose and kill Sara . As he could use anti - vampire weapons as a vampire hunter . Sara can't . She will lost spectaculary in a fight against Kaname . Sara had identify Zero as the ideal person to aid her . He is the strongest vampire hunter . He has a lot of power after ingesting pureblood blood . And the most important : he hates Kaname the most .

Zero wants Kaname as dead as he can . Zero hates Kaname the most . Most than any other vampire alive . I don't need to say why . I suppose most people here know . Zero only refrained from killing Kaname because of Yuuki's interference . But Zero hates purebloods in general . He would not help Sara just because she is pretty . Or fall to her usual magical tricks . Sara did need to use a strong reason for Zero falling at her side believing he was the one who chosen that road . This is when the Kaname was the reason of all your misfortune speech came as plan . And it works as a charm . Zero felt for this .

Zero now thinks helping Sara for a while is in his best interest of killing Kaname . Most probably he only consider this alliance of sorts temporary . When Zero gets what he wanted ; he probably believes its only matter of destroying Sara to get out . Pretty easy for him in paper .

Yeah, there is where my idea of Zero pretending to be her ally came from.Now we have 4 people defending Sara (Kaien, Yuuki, Zero, Ichijou) and just 2 (Ruka and Akatsuki) defending Kaname, even if Im not sure Kaname would ever let Ruka and Kain join in a fight vs a PB as to protect 'em. This possible clash looks so unbalanced to me but all in all this seems to match Kaname's current plans. This got me even more confused 'cos I see no point in lying about evil actions he never accomplished, which would just bring him more enemies. Where's the point in having so many opponents in a fight?Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat, I have no idea how this mess could be sorted out xD

None knows better than Kaname what dangerous living weapon he's raised up with Zero and he's perfectly aware of his hatred towards him.So his lying to him in order to feed his vengeful purposes shall lead him somewhere he's planned before.Honestly, I can see nothing but death at the end of this path but again maybe Hino keeps some surprise stored for us xD In any case, even if he does not care about his own existence, he should at least keep living to prevent Yuuki from getting killed by Zero, since his hatred vs PBs wont stop until all are extinguished.

I have this feeling chap 80 will be quite thrilling

Honestly, I can see nothing but death at the end of this path but again maybe Hino keeps some surprise stored for us xD In any case, even if he does not care about his own existence, he should at least keep living to prevent Yuuki from getting killed by Zero, since his hatred vs PBs wont stop until all are extinguished.

Zero I do not think that he can kill Yuuki, whatever he says, he just you know...talks too much but when it gets down to action he does nothing about it..he stated that once, twice and nothing. As you so I do believe that Kaname fuels Zero's anger at that scene but I doubt that its intentional, i mean i am not sure, because his whole plan shows that right now Kaname cares about promoting the image of a cold blooded killer> and we know that he lies with Shizuka's release> but yet he accepts it, actually making the job harder for Sara.

I do not know if at the current phase he is accepting that allegation to anger Zero, I think that Kaname just tries not to show weakness or not to admit the truth at this phase, let's not forget that he is in the academy with Sara's spies all around, Yuuki watching the scene and bla..bla..so his plan had to go on despite anything.

I am not sure but i tend to believe more that he accepted and fueled this scene for the sake and the execution of his plan and image at the current phase than to anger Zero.

What he is doing is very strange indeed, he went outside from Isaya's house and it seems that the main reason was to drag Kaien there and confirm Sara's allegation that he killed Ouri and Hana (also to get rid of Touma in an effort to show that he wants to kill all purebloods), now he appears at that scene with Zero and Yuuki in order to confirm Sara's lies again. He seems to be in a hurry for some reason..

It was a line from Isaya when he compared Juuri with Yuuki lol >>

Isaya: “A thick shadow lies over her, yet she has the smell of sunlight. It’s similar BUT DIFFERENT from Juuri, who smelled of the sun’s flames…” (volume 12, chap. 58 )

Nina, my first thoughts when reading these lines was like she is carrying some part of a sin or something...what's your thoughts about that line? I think Isaya could be mentioning what we refer to as aura of a person or something like that. A bit metaphysic there...

Zero I do not think that he can kill Yuuki, whatever he says, he just you know...talks too much but when it gets down to action he does nothing about it..he stated that once, twice and nothing.


Quoting from that, I dunno...well, I'd not underestimate Zero's strong will. As the story went on we've seen a very strong willed boy, whose main goal is that of revenge. There are many elements which lead me to think about a possible end where Zero would try and kill Yuuki. When Yuuki and Zero parted the first time he clearly states he would be ok now, even if she's leaving him and indeed we see a cold blooded, cynical Zero at their first encounter after 1 year has passed since they parted. The only one having "nostaligic"feelings in their relationship is Yuuki. Zero himself appears rather stiff (remember when he threatened her of death after she sniffed his neck xD), or statements like "don't touch me", "stay away from me" and such. Of course this could just prove he's suffocating his love feelings for her, but dunno, I get struck with his strong will and basic cynism. As for what concerns Zero's personality I get a strong sense of duty to which he'd sacrifice more than we could ever imagine, even his beloved one if its the case. Besides, he truly despises Yuki's PBness, he keeps caring for her just on account of her past human side, he cant so easily forget about.My feeling is that if Yuuki stays PB until the end of the story, he might decide to kill her and then kill himself afterwards, just because he's a tragic hero yunno so Im expecting some epic moves from him.

As for Kaname being somehow "unaware" when fueling Zero's anger, well...manga has given us proofs enough about Kaname's mastership in controlling every single move in a plan of his. He never leaves anything to randomness, he studies every single move carefully before taking a step forward,'cos he deals with challenges figuring all out as if he was playing a chessmatch with his opponents. (so awesome of him <3). Sooner of later we'll find out what lies beneath his coldjaded eyes...