Vampire Knight 87 FULL RAWS AND TRANSLATION

First topic message reminder :

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1935373666

translation here: http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/1013045.html

@ Duskola: Hi Duskola, to answer your question, I have asked a friend who good at Jappanese and she told me this:

Spoiler:

About Japanese word Yuuki uses to describe her feelings for Kaname:

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Kaname-sama... I love you (I like you so much), I love you. You are begining of my world and everything from that world

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: I love him (or I like him alot). When I think of him... It's the only thing in my head almost to the point that I lose myself...

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: How could I hate? I always love you (like you so much) from back and then

Word she used: Daisuki (大好き)

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Because for all this time. I've been in love with my brother.

Word she used: Koishite(恋して)

Yuuki had said "Ai" before but I think she meant Kaname's feeling for her

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Is it a bad thing? It's too painful if I have to be alone for all eternity... It's only normal to want someone to snuggle up together isn't it...? When I think of him I feel so much love and sadness. Is it bad thing that the same feeling make me want to latch on his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feeling in it? .

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Yes. I am lonely and I do want to be with him. And he's endured so much sadness for my sake. So much love and so much sadness.

Both words "love" she used are "ai"（愛）

Hope that will help you

Ribbon07 wrote:@ Duskola: Hi Duskola, to answer your question, I have asked a friend who good at Jappanese and she told me this:

Spoiler:

About Japanese word Yuuki uses to describe her feelings for Kaname:

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Kaname-sama... I love you (I like you so much), I love you. You are begining of my world and everything from that world

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: I love him (or I like him alot). When I think of him... It's the only thing in my head almost to the point that I lose myself...

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: How could I hate? I always love you (like you so much) from back and then

Word she used: Daisuki (大好き)

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Because for all this time. I've been in love with my brother.

Word she used: Koishite(恋して)

Yuuki had said "Ai" before but I think she meant Kaname's feeling for her

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Is it a bad thing? It's too painful if I have to be alone for all eternity... It's only normal to want someone to snuggle up together isn't it...? When I think of him I feel so much love and sadness. Is it bad thing that the same feeling make me want to latch on his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feeling in it? .

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Yes. I am lonely and I do want to be with him. And he's endured so much sadness for my sake. So much love and so much sadness.

Both words "love" she used are "ai"（愛）

Hope that will help you

OMG! Ribbon I want to kiss you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was trying to gather the same passages but you did it before me!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, thank you sooooooooo much!

I want to confirm what you have said/proved above!

Yuuki indeed kept using the “大好き=Daisuki (I love him)” BUT she has used and the “ai” and the “koi” that both mean romantic love!
Yuuki’s line from volume 8>>>

だってずっと自分の...お兄さんに恋してた = I have always been in love with my own brother.

Yuuki in this line as you can see is using the kanji: “koi = 恋 ”
See here for references.
The kanji koi includes the kanji “kokoro== 心,” which means heart ^^

Also as my friend told me the “ 恋してた == koishi teta == I’ve been in love” was conjugated from the verb 恋する = fall in love with

You can put these kanji on your own google’s translalator and you shall see that it will verify the above >.<

So from what I understood and from the above link the “ai” and the “koi” that Hino chose to describe the love for Kaname and Yuuki are similar, are referring to “eros” i.e. to romantic love, and are more stronger/clear than the “suki” based on the Japanese culture and customs \0/

As I’ve red in a Japanese site the “suki” is also used from a mother to her child and vice versa to express love etc… but not the “ai” and deffo not the “koi” ^^

Look this analysis >>

"Koi" is a love for the opposite sex, or a feeling of longing for a specific person. It can be described as "romantic love" or "passionate love." While "ai" has the same meaning as "koi," it also has a definition of a general feeling of love. "Koi" can be selfish, but "ai" is a real love. Here are some lines that explain them well:　Koi is always wanting. Ai is always giving.

source

However in Japanese you cannot use the “ai” to say “to fall in love” or “to be in love” <<< for these expressions is always used the “koi” not the “ai”. So I guess for Yuuki’s line Hino could only use the “koi” to convey eros.

On the other hand Kaname had used the “Ai” when he told to Yuuki “I love you… I love you more than anything in the entire world” ^^ >>

He used the 愛してるよ==Aishiteru yo== Love you i.e. there isn’t any ambiguity of what kind of love did he mean. In fact the way he put it is a boyish way as I’ve red in a Japanese site.

Spoiler:

I don't get the point on why you are so excited, we all knew yuuki loved kaname back in the school arch, zero himself confirmed it when he feed on her as well as yuuki confirming it several times, the debate is rather she still loves him the same as back then and if she loves him the most now. Chapter 66 page 23-27 also confirms she still loves him, but there are many negative points and buts added in.
"I was happy with you as my older brother"
"I was happy with you as my senior"
"you are a liar"
"There's something "evil" [sorry Austin powers moment] about you that I cant trust"
"When I was little I promised to be your wife"
"I like/love you"
"But [She really likes to use buts doesn't she?] there are so many emotions mixing together
"I want to start over" [This line pisses me off the most, my x used it to break up with me and friend zone me lol]
So put it simply back in the school arch, yes she loved kaname the most. It is common he was after all forbidden fruit then the forbidden fruit turned out to be hers all along, if you get some thing you wanted most of your life of course you are going to love it most... At first but as time goes on you see and learn things you have never seen or learned before . New emotions come into the fold and they start to mix with the old ones.
As for zero, he wasn't even an option for yuuki till she found out about his feelings, after that is when she [or anyone women] reevaluated her feelings for him and considered if she could see him as a lover. We are seeing the fruits of that now and we will also learn the answer in the next few chapters as if she could consider him a lover or not. But it is looking good so far kinda. The but makes it to where it can go ether way.
I hope this post wasn't to boring to read and ty for making it to this part.

So I jsut noticed the scene from the train we have more cut off words
Zero "There for"
Yuuki "In that case"
Then in the middle it says something more should have been said after that.
What do you guys think they were going to say?
IMO yuukis is easy
Yuuki "In that case, you should take my blood"
As for zero only thing I can think of is
Zero "There for, I don't deserve your blood"
But it just doesn't sound right.

So this means the problem to how to translate the Japanese words related to love in English is because there is no separate words for each kind of love available .

"Suki" in Spanish would be either "Me gustas " ( "I like you") or "Te quiero " ( " I love you ". But could be either romantic or platonic love ) .

Daisuki could be either " Te quiero " ( love in a general way ) ör "Te Amo " ( always romantic love). Both translated to "I love you " in English .

"Koi " would be "enamorado "( M) or "enamorada "(F) . "In love " in a romantic way in English .

"Ai " is "amor "in Spanish . Or "love "
If you use " amor " alone in Spanish , it could be any kind of love . Romantic or not .

But when you say in Spanish "Yo te amo " o "Te amo " .It's almost used as romantic love .
"Aishiteru " would be the exact Spanish equivalent of "Te amo "

*********************************************

The problem with Yuuki sudenly saying she loves Zero is : Why she has being consistent saying she loves Kaname ; to change so quickly about those feelings during the 1 or 2 weeks she expended traveling with Zero during the last 2 chapters ?

It wan't a surprise to read Yuuki cherish / treasures Zero as a boy and these feelings were real . Because this part was consistent with the plot since the start .

The surprise is to read after all those little hints of Yuuki showing interest in Kaname as a man . The " My Kaname" , "I belong to Kaname ". Yuuki saying now "I love Zero " . Without being clear to readers if she has drop all her feelings for Kaname or not .

This is Shojo . A rule is : female protagonists don't two - time her boyfriends unless they have a very justified reason to do so . The usual one is when is very obvious they love the other guy and they don't the boyfriend . But Yuuki has not demostrated yet her love for Kaname has faded before accepting loving Zero .

mariangie wrote:So this means the problem to how to translate the Japanese words related to love in English is because there is no separate words for each kind of love available .

"Suki" in Spanish would be either "Me gustas " ( "I like you") or "Te quiero " ( " I love you ". But could be either romantic or platonic love ) .

Daisuki could be either " Te quiero " ( love in a general way ) ör "Te Amo " ( always romantic love). Both translated to "I love you " in English .

"Koi " would be "enamorado "( M) or "enamorada "(F) . "In love " in a romantic way in English .

"Ai " is "amor "in Spanish . Or "love "
If you use " amor " alone in Spanish , it could be any kind of love . Romantic or not .

But when you say in Spanish "Yo te amo " o "Te amo " .It's almost used as romantic love .
"Aishiteru " would be the exact Spanish equivalent of "Te amo "

*********************************************

The problem with Yuuki sudenly saying she loves Zero is : Why she has being consistent saying she loves Kaname ; to change so quickly about those feelings during the 1 or 2 weeks she expended traveling with Zero during the last 2 chapters ?

It wan't a surprise to read Yuuki cherish / treasures Zero as a boy and these feelings were real . Because this part was consistent with the plot since the start .

The surprise is to read after all those little hints of Yuuki showing interest in Kaname as a man . The " My Kaname" , "I belong to Kaname ". Yuuki saying now "I love Zero " . Without being clear to readers if she has drop all her feelings for Kaname or not .

This is Shojo . A rule is : female protagonists don't two - time her boyfriends unless they have a very justified reason to do so . The usual one is when is very obvious they love the other guy and they don't the boyfriend . But Yuuki has not demostrated yet her love for Kaname has faded before accepting loving Zero .

Yuuki and kaname both decided to start over from the start so it is not actually 2 timing cause they haven't started dating again yet. In most relationships start over usually means break up and start as friends again. Even if this is not how yuuki meant it kaname suddenly vanished and killed a few people after this, so right now it is kinda in limbo.

So I just noticed some thing else in this chapter and that is yuuki might have been the one to kiss zero here. We have zero bending down to about ear level then stopping and moving slowly towards the side of yuukis face, then suddenly yuuki is on her tip toes at mouth level with her face turned right towards zeros.

I had to save the pages to my computer and zoom the image but the pics are good quality and it is all quit clear.

But as we know from when zero was a kid he is really good at detecting vampires, especially pbs. So it might be possible he was just trying to whisper that kaname was there and yuuki lost in the moment went in for the kiss.
But then again I could be wrong and he might have just stopped at the last moment before trying to kiss her but then she finished it.

RIchard wrote:But as we know from when zero was a kid he is really good at detecting vampires, especially pbs. So it might be possible he was just trying to whisper that kaname was there and yuuki lost in the moment went in for the kiss.
But then again I could be wrong and he might have just stopped at the last moment before trying to kiss her but then she finished it.

We still don't know whetever or not they actually kissed or not so until one or another has been proven I'll state it as fact. I don't care if its a zeki or a yume kiss, but please be certain before you claim such things.

I did say possible and could be wrong. So I didn't actually claim any of it actually happen, just hinted it could have.
So where is the problem?

I didn't mean you specifically, I just used your quote as an example 'cause it sounded that way. Sorry if I offended you or anything.

I don't get the point on why you are so excited,

And your point is? We are not entitled to be excited? Here some are cheering and celebrating over a speculation and one cannot be excited about FACTS of the story?
Okay I get why you are “irritated”...

But I was excited about the sublime job that Ribbon did! I was trying to do it myself so she “saved” me.

Do you know how much time and effort requires; to gather all this info?

Plus I do not think at all meaningless all this research … whoever read that post, understood it, and was aware of the main subject of the recent discussion I’m sure it will find it very enlightening …
I personally discovered many important things that I was ignoring…

I guess you are very well informed so you don’t need to explore anything further. One example only out of many >>

"I like/love you"
"But [She really likes to use buts doesn't she?] there are so many emotions mixing together

The correct wording is >>

Yuuki: No YOU love me… YOU do love me but YOU are conflicted… (official volume 14)

So…
1. There is no love/like ... is solely LOVE according to the official translator
2. She was talking about Kaname and not herself
3. She said conflicted and not there are so many emotions mixing together … i.e. Yuuki saw through Kaname’s contradiction >> while he indeed loved her he left.

At least put your facts straight …

As for zero, he wasn't even an option for yuuki till she found out about his feelings,

Whereas; it was Kaname an option???? Since when a human had an option with a PB???
Because many of Yuuki’s “I love you” had been said while she was a human no?
Still this "little detail" never prevented her to fall in love with Kaname and expressed it… so why she didn’t with Zero? Why Zero wasn’t an option??? O.o
Baseless excuses over and over…

mariangie wrote:
This is Shojo . A rule is : female protagonists don't two - time her boyfriends unless they have a very justified reason to do so . The usual one is when is very obvious they love the other guy and they don't the boyfriend . But Yuuki has not demostrated yet her love for Kaname has faded before accepting loving Zero .

Its not really a problem or inconsistent for yuuki to love 2 men (within this story). yuki already admitted in 51 there are 2 men in her heart to kaname. whether or not you accept it as romantic love for both is to you, but hino has set the stage/given herself room for yuuki to accept she loves zero while she also loves kaname.

also kaname left yuuki. yuuki can still love him and think they will be together, but she does have the freedom to kiss another boy especially if the other boy is "the one" without breaking the shoujo rules and being considered a two timer. yuuki also already broke the "no drinking from someone else" rule because kaname wasnt there.

when maria says yuuki has kaname, so she doesn't need zero, yuuki disagrees that zero isn't someone she doesn't need. so inspite of having kaname, she still needs another. this actually fits with kaname being unable to sate yuuki alone.

this is beginning to sound more and more like a threesome, yuck, but i think the gist of is, that yuuki will have to reconcile what she really needs and wants. because shoujo rules definitely state you can't have both unambigously, a threesome is always just friendship for all of them.

my 2 cents is that the framework for yuuki stating the fact that she loves zero is there if you care to allow it. so we can return to debating who she loves more/will end up with and i know we all have our very different opinions.

my 2 cents on the kiss, i think it was all very spontaneous because they suddenly had the freedom of not being hunter and pureblood and got back to the basics of just feelings. its poetic that yuuki thinks they've covered their hearts with a mask and pretend nothing happens between them and when they cover their faces they are free to remove the mask on their hearts.

nina wrote:

I don't get the point on why you are so excited,

And your point is? We are not entitled to be excited? Here some are cheering and celebrating over a speculation and one cannot be excited about FACTS of the story?
Okay I get why you are “irritated”...

But I was excited about the sublime job that Ribbon did! I was trying to do it myself so she “saved” me.

Do you know how much time and effort requires; to gather all this info?

Plus I do not think at all meaningless all this research … whoever read that post, understood it, and was aware of the main subject of the recent discussion I’m sure it will find it very enlightening …
I personally discovered many important things that I was ignoring…

I guess you are very well informed so you don’t need to explore anything further. One example only out of many >>

"I like/love you"
"But [She really likes to use buts doesn't she?] there are so many emotions mixing together

The correct wording is >>

Yuuki: No YOU love me… YOU do love me but YOU are conflicted… (official volume 14)

So…
1. There is no love/like ... is solely LOVE according to the official translator
2. She was talking about Kaname and not herself
3. She said conflicted and not there are so many emotions mixing together … i.e. Yuuki saw through Kaname’s contradiction >> while he indeed loved her he left.

At least put your facts straight …

As for zero, he wasn't even an option for yuuki till she found out about his feelings,

Whereas; it was Kaname an option???? Since when a human had an option with a PB???
Because many of Yuuki’s “I love you” had been said while she was a human no?
Still this "little detail" never prevented her to fall in love with Kaname and expressed it… so why she didn’t with Zero? Why Zero wasn’t an option??? O.o
Baseless excuses over and over…

First quote, sorry that ism y bad, I thought you were excited that it stated yuuki loved kaname and was confused by it cause we already knew that, I didn't know it was cause you got the reference material that you wanted. Didn't mean to imply I was irritated at all cause I wasn't.

Second quote, can you provide a link cause that different from the version I read.

Third quote, umm because she was taken away and forbidden to leave the mansion for the next year right after she found out about his feelings. As you can see right now that she is with him again and starting to be able to talk to him again she is doing just that.

There was a lot of sarcasm in your post that wasn't really needed, are you this hostile to every one or just zekis?
If saying this is against forum rule I apologize but it had to be said.

Second quote, can you provide a link cause that different from the version I read.

No there is no link. As I said in my previous post, the quote is from the official volume 14.
Note that ALL the “I love you” that Yuuki said are straight "I love you" without the slash /”I like you” in the official translations.

Are you doubting me; or the official translation? Never mind don’t answer…

Third quote, umm because she was taken away and forbidden to leave the mansion for the next year right after she found out about his feelings. As you can see right now that she is with him again and starting to be able to talk to him again she is doing just that.

And so what? I meant BEFORE she chooses to go with Kaname …
Why she should hear a confession first in order to fallen in love with Zero?
Did Zero hear any confession in order to fallen for Yuuki; or in fact he fallen for her while he knew she was in love with someone else?
Or didn’t Yuuki express her love for Kaname BEFORE he confesses his feelings to her?

Thus I was answering to your reasoning that Zero wasn’t an option for Yuuki … he might not have been an option after his confession but what about earlier? Since when; a person should hear first a confession in order to fall in love? O.o

There was a lot of sarcasm in your post that wasn't really needed, are you this hostile to every one or just zekis?
If saying this is against forum rule I apologize but it had to be said.

Are you ALL Zekis? Don’t try to pull that card… I reply to sarcasm with sarcasm… fair enough?
Ah and there is no need for apologies.

nina wrote:Thus I was answering to your reasoning that Zero wasn’t an option for Yuuki … he might not have been an option after his confession but what about earlier? Since when; a person should hear first a confession in order to fall in love? O.o

Ah, my thoughts exactly. So if Zero never attempted to kiss Yuuki and made a love confession to her she would never even consider him in the first place. This is why I'm so confident that she truly loves Kaname and that Hino is using Zero as a plot device to complicate the love between Kaname and Yuuki.

Zero is the other guy...He fell in love with a girl that already had her heart belonging to another man. Had VK been different and Yuuki was just with Kaname simply becoz she was engaged to him and becoz that's what society wants, I would have stick with Zeki and got turned off by Yume by now (or ship them as a crack pairing lol)...but that's not what was shown in the script.

A lot of fans on the other side keep saying Yuuki feels obligated to love Kaname that she was born to become his wife that's why she stayed with him...But these fans forgot that Yuuki loved Kaname as a Human way before she knew he loved her too and that he was hers all along. That makes their love story beautiful to me becoz Yuuki loved Kaname of her own will not becoz she was born to become his wife...she later found out that all she wanted was hers which made it all the sweeter.

I used to ship Zeki and I've always felt bad for Zero becoz no matter how much he is precious to Yuuki and she stand up to Kaname for Zero, and gave Zero her blood to save him. She still came back to Kaname's arms...she still declared her undying love for Kaname. It's becoz of this strong love Yuuki has for Kaname that I decided to become full Yume and stop to support Zeki. Which is why the way Yuuki acted in Ch 87 threw me off...becoz Yuuki is not the indecisive type. Had she acted like this before I would have shrugged it off...but suddenly she became like this in one chapter. O______O

I believe Zero can be happy without Yuuki and on his own. Yuuki was already ok with running away from Zero forever she was willing to start over with Kaname and forget about the past, until Kaname forced her to face her past by pushing her into Zero's arms. Honestly, I don't like Hino using Zero just to bring Kaname and Yuuki back together. But it's Hino story she can do whatever she likes so even if I feel there was a better way she could have made Yuuki explore her feelings for Zero without making Yuuki look like wishy washy character who goes back and forth between both guys. I have to accept it.


Next chapter should clear up a couple of things...or maybe Zero and Yuuki will ignore Kaname's presence and continue to kiss.

Imagine if Kaname was like; carry on, don't mind me. I got some purebloods to kill. And Yuuki's all like; I've found my true love, thank you Kaname for abandoning me and pushing me to my true love's arms. (Haha, I'm kidding) Yuuki was just too OOC for me in this chapter so I have to poke fun at it all...why did she even tell Zero "I cannot live with you...I belong to Kaname" if she was going to kiss Zero and make love declarations to him a few hours later? o.O

Man, talk about random.

I think you might be surprised at just how many people fall in love just cause they find out the other person likes them [well it leads to love, should probably use the term form an interest instead of fall in love cause the love is what comes after]. From what I have seen of it my self it normally happens when a person is zoned [aka put in a place where they wont be considered a love interest, childhood friends, best friends, step sibling. sibling in law, co workers, exc. [A lot of company's here frown on office romances]

Now as for the "I cannot live with you...I belong to Kaname" if things do go a zeki way here then this statement might have been yuuki trying to convince her self of it maybe to help her control her self better.

It's kinda like when you see a cake and you really want a peace, then the clerk or a friend offers you it but you are on a diet so you say "I cant I am on a diet" even thought you realy want it. Not sure if this meta-for transfers over well.

@Richard

RIchard wrote:I think you might be surprised at just how many people fall in love just cause they find out the other person likes them [well it leads to love, should probably use the term form an interest instead of fall in love cause the love is what comes after].

I think you're missing the point here...it's not that they can't fall in love becoz the other person take interest in them. It's the statement you made that Zero wasn't even an option...and well Kaname wasn't an option either..Yuuki simply fell in love with him on her own. She then later learned that he was hers all along..but she had already fallen in love with Kaname so she didn't simply choose him becoz he was an option. When you said Zero wasn't an option, well, it doesn't really excuse Yuuki never wanting to be with Zero romantically. She shouldn't want to be with Zero only becoz he's an option...which is what Zekis are making it seem like which is sad, IMO. Yuuki will never pick Zero unless he becomes an option..hmmm that sounds so unromantic. So basically, Yuuki kissed Zero becoz he danced with her and he became an option..so she wouldn't have kissed him if he didn't dance with her and become and option...that's what I conclude when I follow Zekis logic.

RIchard wrote:"But [She really likes to use buts doesn't she?] there are so many emotions mixing together

Dude. There's never been a but when Yuuki speaks of her love for Kaname. In fact, she knew that Kaname and her were from two different worlds, still...she longed for him anyway knowing that it was impossible for them to be together. We never really saw Yuuki thinking she wants to be with Zero or that she longs for Zero but can't be with him becoz he is a Hunter and she's a Pureblood. Yes, she mentions he's a Hunter and that she's a Pureblood a couple of times but it's never to say I want to be with Zero but I can't becoz I'm a Pureblood and he's a Hunter. Shouldn't we at least see that in her thoughts somewhere? Especially, when Yuuki expressed those same thoughts towards Kaname when it was impossible for them to be together.

She said this chapter she wants to cherish Zero and that she likes/loves him but Yuuki said she wanted to cherish Zero from the beginning of the manga so we really didn't get to see anything new in her thoughts but same old past feelings she had of wanting to cherish the boy who's precious to her. If we see Yuuki in the next chapter saying she wants Zero as a lover, then I'll see it as Hino attempting to develop Zeki romantically late in the story (their romance will be rushed)... but a must if we are to have a final pair.

RIchard wrote:"I want to start over" [This line pisses me off the most, my x used it to break up with me and friend zone me lol]

Why should it piss you off if you're a Zeki and this is negative for Yume? Did Yuuki really friend zone Kaname when she told him she wanted to start over? o.O I'm at a total loss now why Yuuki begged Kaname not to go out. Why she told him to drink her blood (the blood that he loves) Why she sprout butterfly wings to follow him after he left her becoz she couldn't accept that he left her when they were about to start over.

She wanted to start fresh for the simple fact a lot had happened, she found out he wasn't her brother but in fact her ancestor. She was jealous another woman gave Kaname his name and doubting his love for her becoz of her own insecurities. So it was a good thing that she wanted to start over. I don't see how she friend zoned him, or how it's bad. But when she left Zero she was able to conceal her crying heart and become another man's lover without thinking twice about it. Yuuki felt terrible for having a link to Zero because she couldn't give her heart fully to the man she loved and wanted to be with. The dilemma chapter showed us how Yuuki felt unworthy of Kaname becoz she had a link/bond to another man. Yuuki never felt sorry for telling Zero she loved Kaname...lol. In Ch 86 I thought it was cruel of her to tell Zero: "I cannot live with you, I belong to Kaname." so you can see why I find it random that she's kissing him in the next chapter when she friend zoned Zero in the previous chapter.

RIchard wrote:Now as for the "I cannot live with you...I belong to Kaname" if things do go a zeki way here then this statement might have been yuuki trying to convince her self of it maybe to help her control her self better.

If that was the case, again I'm baffled why Ch 84 Yuuki's eyes were only on Kaname. Why Zero had to comfort her when she attempted to hug Kaname right before he disappeared? If Zero was the one she wanted she shouldn't be focusing so much on Kaname. And why Zero felt the need to comfort her? Zero understands Yuuki's feelings for Kaname after all...

RIchard wrote:It's kinda like when you see a cake and you really want a peace, then the clerk or a friend offers you it but you are on a diet so you say "I cant I am on a diet" even thought you realy want it. Not sure if this meta-for transfers over well.

*snorts* I wonder why she suddenly decided forget about my diet I want the cake now, only to say "But I..." after having a taste of said delicious cake she was holding herself back from having...while looking at the piece of cheese cake on the side that she always wanted and never held herself back from having.

ButterflyWingsx wrote:I think you're missing the point here...it's not that they can't fall in love becoz the other person take interest in them. It's the statement you made that Zero wasn't even an option...and well Kaname wasn't an option either..Yuuki simply fell in love with him on her own. She then later learned that he was hers all along..but she had already fallen in love with Kaname so she didn't simply choose him becoz he was an option. When you said Zero wasn't an option, well, it doesn't really excuse Yuuki never wanting to be with Zero romantically. She shouldn't want to be with Zero only becoz he's an option...which is what Zekis are making it seem like which is sad, IMO. Yuuki will never pick Zero unless he becomes an option..hmmm that sounds so unromantic. So basically, Yuuki kissed Zero becoz he danced with her and he became an option..so she wouldn't have kissed him if he didn't dance with her and become and option...that's what I conclude when I follow Zekis logic.

I think I might have been misunderstood here, what I ment is zero wasn't an option at this point cause yuuki didn't see him as a lover, only a close/childhood friend + brother. The option of lover hadn't crossed her mind at this point. Unlike with kaname who she wanted as a lover but couldn't have cause they were from defrent worlds. Hope that explains it better.

ButterflyWingsx wrote:Dude. There's never been a but when Yuuki speaks of her love for Kaname. In fact, she knew that Kaname and her were from two different worlds, still...she longed for him anyway knowing that it was impossible for them to be together. We never really saw Yuuki thinking she wants to be with Zero or that she longs for Zero but can't be with him becoz he is a Hunter and she's a Pureblood. Yes, she mentions he's a Hunter and that she's a Pureblood a couple of times but it's never to say I want to be with Zero but I can't becoz I'm a Pureblood and he's a Hunter. Shouldn't we at least see that in her thoughts somewhere? Especially, when Yuuki expressed those same thoughts towards Kaname when it was impossible for them to be together.

Umm I never said that yuuki said a but when it comes to her love for kanime, the part you linked was just a copy from there start over conversation I copied over. The whole yuuki saying but thing was a joke cause she has said it a lot thru the manga, it just so happens that that but is the one that triggered the joke.

ButterflyWingsx wrote:Why should it piss you off if you're a Zeki and this is negative for Yume? Did Yuuki really friend zone Kaname when she told him she wanted to start over? o.O I'm at a total loss now why Yuuki begged Kaname not to go out. Why she told him to drink her blood (the blood that he loves) Why she sprout butterfly wings to follow him after he left her becoz she couldn't accept that he left her when they were about to start over.

She wanted to start fresh for the simple fact a lot had happened, she found out he wasn't her brother but in fact her ancestor. She was jealous another woman gave Kaname his name and doubting his love for her becoz of her own insecurity. So it was a good thing that she wanted to start over. I don't see how she friend zoned him, or how it's bad. But when she left Zero she was able to conceal her crying heart and become another man's lover without thinking twice about it. Yuuki felt terrible for having a link to Zero because she couldn't give her heart fully to the man she loved and wanted to be with. The dilemma chapter showed us how Yuuki felt unworthy of Kaname becoz she had a link/bond to another man. Yuuki never felt sorry for telling Zero she loved Kaname...lol. In Ch 86 I thought it was cruel of her to tell Zero: "I cannot live with you, I belong to Kaname." so you can see why I find it random that she's kissing him in the next chapter when she friend zoned Zero in the previous chapter.

I cant like kaname to cause I am a zeki? I have never disliked kaname and just cause I prefer another couples doesn't mean I wont feel sorry for a character who goes thru a painful thing that I my self also went thru,... kinda, but my gf wasn't a pb or even a vampire.

ButterflyWingsx wrote:*snorts* I wonder why she suddenly decided forget about my diet I want the cake now, only to say "But I..." after having a taste of said delicious cake she was holding herself back from having...while looking at the piece of cheese cake on the side that she always wanted and never held herself back from having.

But I..WANT BOTH ZERO FLAVOR AND KANAME FLAVOR
Bad yuuki

Speaking of cheese cake I just got done making some a few hours ago, need to check to see if it is ready to cut.

well um...I can officially say I'm confused by the comment above me...how did cake get into all this? Anyway...as far as the kiss goes I have to agree with Knightmare on this one. As I was reading the manga I was kind of just going along with the story when all of a sudden that happened I feel like this was a moment in which Zero and Yuuki kind of let their own protective walls down and kind of had a flashback to a time where they did care for each other. Im not saying they still don't but this is the most blatant scene of affection I have seen between these two characters for awhile, and then of course to top it all of Kaname enters the scene I haven't been on this forum in awhile but this chapter definitely made me come back haha I just had to comment on it

mariangie wrote:General rants about chapter 87 . Tons of speculations :

1-I have a huge question about what was the real purpose for Yuuki visiting the Kuran Manor . I doubt she made a whole day travel by speed train just to show Zero her home . Or to check if the house was dirty . Or for readers discover her key was the master key for the Kuran Manor ( It this was the purpose . Their visit has no need to cover any chapter 87 pages . )

My only guesses are that Yuuki was looking for some information or a small object that could fit into her pocket . A thing she didn't ( nor Hino ) wants the readers nor Zero to discover which was its purpose yet .

You know Maria, I thought the same thing like you; it is rose resin that Kaname took with him that Yuuki forgot when she was in hurry to follow Kaname.

SilverAngel wrote:well um...I can officially say I'm confused by the comment above me...how did cake get into all this? Anyway...as far as the kiss goes I have to agree with Knightmare on this one. As I was reading the manga I was kind of just going along with the story when all of a sudden that happened I feel like this was a moment in which Zero and Yuuki kind of let their own protective walls down and kind of had a flashback to a time where they did care for each other. Im not saying they still don't but this is the most blatant scene of affection I have seen between these two characters for awhile, and then of course to top it all of Kaname enters the scene I haven't been on this forum in awhile but this chapter definitely made me come back haha I just had to comment on it

You come here to check Yumes reaction right? Please come back again next chapter. Suddenly, Yuuki and Zero kissed each other out of the blue with both wearing masks. Do you think that is a real kiss? But when she see Kaname's appearance, her eyes just stare at him while opening her masks <<< what doesn't it mean? You know Hino always use metaphorical ideas to her manga (in the deep dark forest too) I like the way she use those metaphorical ideas.. As Butterflywingz said and you confused about it is the same of metaphor as Yuuki general confession in her inner thought about Zero.. I hope you will get want Butterflywingz meant.

-----------------------

Yuuki confession is GENERAL and RANDOM thoughts and even when they were dancing they still talked about their past and 2 pages Hino gave for them without a text for me this was the last time that Yuuki would think about Zero like this. The next page is jut connected to the 2 pages about the boy she always wanted to cherish she liked him and those feeling were inside her and it showed in the manga of the first arc; is before they ended up to be Enemies, she said she can run from Zero forever if that can make him alive << she like him and want to cheirish him that's the truht. I don't feel any romantic feeling or passionate expression from Yuuki as she did with Kaname before. I knew very well that she likes Zero but I doubted her feeling for Zero is a romatical feeling or not, so I expected to see her confession about this, so this ch. just showed to me.

The kiss; is like the title of the chapter "Masquerade" means a dancing ball with masks. Also, means false.

Here is the meaning of Masquerade.

mas·quer·ade (msk-rd)
n.
1. a. A costume party at which masks are worn; a masked ball. Also called masque.
b. A costume for such a party or ball.
2. a. A disguise or false outward show; a pretense: a masquerade of humility.
b. An involved scheme; a charade.
intr.v. mas·quer·ad·ed, mas·quer·ad·ing, mas·quer·ades
1. To wear a mask or disguise, as at a masquerade: She masqueraded as a shepherd.
2. To go about as if in disguise; have or put on a deceptive appearance: The stowaway masqueraded as a crew member.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/masquerade

For me this kiss doesn't relate to any feeling of those, nor romantic, just as planed. Obviously, I saw the kiss is just a show for me. A Show to lure Kaname to come out as possible... Next chapter, Kaname with the mask may pretend to be another guy who will go near Yuuki and end up himself, then run away from Yuuki "again".

Gosh. I've been away for a single day... what has just happened????



First of all, @Ribbon07 & @nina & @mariangie: you've been A.M.A.Z.I.N.G. !!!!
I was trying to gather some sentences myself, but I couldn't reach that amount. So, please let me be all-excited-like-a-teenager and not because we made some totally independent researches and came to the same conclusions - but because we were totally unintentionally able to make some good team work!



I had hoped the same accurate research coming from someone of the so-called "other side".

( Come to the dark side... we have cookies... ehrm... cheesecake just joking )

This would have been a really wonderful team work, capable to mix some different opinions in a really interesting analysis.

In conclusion, please let me quote myself

myself wrote:But as you say, we may never find the kanji "AI" in every sentence Yuuki said because - as stated in the link I posted in the other topic - is very rare for a Japanese to use such strong words. SO, IF Yuuki ever used these towards Kaname - but, as you say, he probably used some "SUKI"-prefix-suffix to refer to him, as it's common in Japanese culture - I was saying IF she did this, it's absolutely out of doubt that using "suki" here is not a real twist in the story - she must at least use some sentence on the same level to make us understand that she now loves Zero.

IF she never did, as you say, it's too soon to interpret this scene as romantic without any doubt, especially because of the "BUT" in the end.

And I've nothing more to add about this because this kind of debate really seems to have become something like Italian politics and I've had enough in my own country.

I will point out here - for the first and last time - only a fact that simply makes me feel abashed O_O

When I subscribed here, more than a month ago, this seemed to be a very peaceful place and this is why I liked it so much - I've never been subscribed to a VK forum before and I ignored all the parties , but I found here some very good people that took the time to analyze the plot, to write accurate long posts (ah-erm ) and so on.

But now, just after this chapter, I see writing here some people that I have never seen writing elsewhere - is this only my impression? If I'm wrong, please forgive me. But my impression is, they were just waiting some moment to come out and gloat. And this is really something I can't understand O_O.

I mean. We're all hot fans of VK. But we're talking about a manga. A comic. You can like it or not like it, and if you don't like it, who forces you to read this and not another manga that could fit your tastes better? O.O

If you think that the plot in this second arc has been "sluggish", that Kaname is nothing more but a useless evil guy that simply fights for revenge, that Yuuki is nothing more than a girl with a lot of "but" () and that Zero, your favourite character, has been simply mistreated and damned by Hino for 87 chapters - well, I usually empathyze with a plot that I like VERY much. And VK took my usual level of empathyzing to the highest point. If I had shared the same feelings I exposed above, I would have suffered like hell. I would have endured a bit, but there would have been a point in which I would simply crack down and say "Hino, your story is an amount of crap. I don't like your plots. I'm going to read something else."

I don't know if I was able to explain myself, so please don't feel offended.

I thank you because with this post I was able to see some parts of this "war" (even if I find it absurd ) and I have to say that I changed my mind from what I told in the beginning of this topic. We're not talking about different interpretations, here.

We're simply talking among people that have read:

"The house is red"

until now, and have accepted the fact that the house is red, and have some opinions about it - they may like or dislike the color of the house, but they can't simply deny that the house is red.

AND people that read:

"The house is red"

and think to have read "The house is green" until now, and keep repeating this even if you put them in front of the evidence that, well, the house is truly red. It may still turn green if the builder starts to paint it. But, for, now, is red, it's plain: this is not a POV.

So please forgive me if I'm not going to debate anymore about the color of the house I think it's useless and that there are more important things to concentrate upon (the plot, for example and I have to say that I've never seen some people here talking about the plot elsewhere, before this very chapter - but this may be only my impression).

I mean, if this chapter turns truly out to be the starting of Hino painting green the house, IF Hino is able to keep the plot consistent, I will accept it, I will not hide in the background and I will keep commenting and giving my contribution to the community. I won't hide somewhere waiting for some hint that makes me think I was right, to abruptly come out and say "Ohohohoh I-told-ya". And now it's too late to stop reading but if this happened some 40 chapters ago, and this turned out to be "Yuuki's turncoat forever", that is, Hino made the plot become "sluggish" crap, well. I would simply have stopped reading and changed manga

---------------------------------------------------

Oh, well, I could have used only one sentence to say all this:

Evil in love wrote:
You come here to check Yumes reaction right? Please come back again next chapter.

but, as you know by now, I've no ability to synthesize

@duskola
I have to disagree with you my friend the house is maroon, not red

Butterflywingsx wrote: Ah, my thoughts exactly. So if Zero never attempted to kiss Yuuki and made a love confession to her she would never even consider him in the first place.

Or; what if Kaname hadn’t left and pushed her away?
Too many if(s), too many external factors, too many manufactured pushes in order to supposedly sprout Yuuki’s “romantic feelings” for Zero lol. >>

She shouldn't want to be with Zero only becoz he's an option...which is what Zekis are making it seem like which is sad, IMO. Yuuki will never pick Zero unless he becomes an option..hmmm that sounds so unromantic. So basically, Yuuki kissed Zero becoz he danced with her and he became an option..so she wouldn't have kissed him if he didn't dance with her and become and option...that's what I conclude when I follow Zekis logic.

Exactly!

Well for me at least the real eros owes to sprout unconditionally like a wild flower and not in a greenhouse

...why did she even tell Zero "I cannot live with you...I belong to Kaname" if she was going to kiss Zero and make love declarations to him a few hours later? o.O

I thought that Yuuki was a coward girl who couldn’t live with Zero cuz of their different lifespan thus and she said “I cannot live with you Zero”.
So what happened now? In a few hours Yuuki changed drastically her mentality?

Not that I ever believed that the different lifespan, or social standards were Yuuki’s real reasons I just detect huge contradictions in the interpretations between chapter 86 and 87
Zero consistency… full conveniency!

OR ultimately it all comes down to Zero’s majestic-dancing-virtues hahaha

There's never been a but when Yuuki speaks of her love for Kaname. In fact, she knew that Kaname and her were from two different worlds, still...she longed for him anyway knowing that it was impossible for them to be together. We never really saw Yuuki thinking she wants to be with Zero or that she longs for Zero but can't be with him becoz he is a Hunter and she's a Pureblood. Yes, she mentions he's a Hunter and that she's a Pureblood a couple of times but it's never to say I want to be with Zero but I can't becoz I'm a Pureblood and he's a Hunter. Shouldn't we at least see that in her thoughts somewhere? Especially, when Yuuki expressed those same thoughts towards Kaname when it was impossible for them to be together.

So true!

But we saw her saying and thinking for the PB Kaname >> (chapter 32 official volume 7)

I LOVE HIM. If I start thinking about him he’s all I think about… if I’m not careful I almost lose myself.

(Inner thought) >> Kaname is a vampire and I’m not. IT DOESN’T MATTER.

That ^^^ means unconditional love/eros that crushes all the excuses…

So where is based the notion that the powerful PB Yuuki counts so much the external and inner so-called restrictions whereas the fragile human Yuuki had more guts and it didn’t matter anything? O.o

Cuz from any angle and if you look at it; for a human is by far more difficult (if not impossible) to throw everything aside in order to be with a PB rather than a PB to be with a hunter who is also a VAMPIRE, no?

Which is the most difficult; to say goodbye to your humanity/nature; or simply throw away the supposedly social standards?
Not to mention that a human turned into vampire still wouldn’t have the same lifespan with the PB…

Bottom line … why all the “obstacles” apply only to Zero’s case; I wonder…

Evil in Love wrote: The kiss; is like the title of the chapter "Masquerade" means a dancing ball with masks. Also, means false.

Here is the meaning of Masquerade.

mas•quer•ade (msk-rd)
n.
1. a. A costume party at which masks are worn; a masked ball. Also called masque.
b. A costume for such a party or ball.
2. a. A disguise or false outward show; a pretense: a masquerade of humility.
b. An involved scheme; a charade.
intr.v. mas•quer•ad•ed, mas•quer•ad•ing, mas•quer•ades
1. To wear a mask or disguise, as at a masquerade: She masqueraded as a shepherd.
2. To go about as if in disguise; have or put on a deceptive appearance: The stowaway masqueraded as a crew member.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/masquerade

Good point! The whole set-up and the timing create too many doubts … and we know that Hino uses many allegories in her story.

Duskola wrote: I changed my mind from what I told in the beginning of this topic. We're not talking about different interpretations, here.

We're simply talking among people that have read:

"The house is red"

until now, and have accepted the fact that the house is red, and have some opinions about it - they may like or dislike the color of the house, but they can't simply deny that the house is red.

AND people that read:

"The house is red"

and think to have read "The house is green" until now, and keep repeating this even if you put them in front of the evidence that, well, the house is truly red. It may still turn green if the builder starts to paint it. But, for, now, is red, it's plain: this is not a POV.

*applause x10* … very perspicacious metaphor Duskola!

So I guess you have the ability to synthesize perfectly! hahaha … but I like your sense of self-sarcasm as well

I am not sure if I was just majorly miss understood or if there is just a huge gap in our languages. When I said zero wasn't even an option till the kiss scene what I meant is that in yukis eyes she started considering zero a possible lover at that point [He became an option to her] and before that point she didn't consider him a possible lover. [He wasn't an option to her] So those who said its sad if yuki is with zero just cause he is an option, of course cause you wouldn't be with some one that you didn't consider a possible lover aka option. The whole point that he is an option means that yuuki is interested in him as a lover to some degree.

*appears during a coffee break*

Wonderful post nina!!!

nina wrote:
Cuz from any angle and if you look at it; for a human is by far more difficult (if not impossible) to throw everything aside in order to be with a PB rather than a PB to be with a hunter who is also a VAMPIRE, no?

And let us not forget that in the first arc, when she is still human and Kaname asks "Do you want to become a vampire so that you can stay with me?" she answers YES. Despite the "different lifespan" and despite the fact that she knows she surely would fall to Level E as an ex-human vampire ... What a strange behaviour, for a girl full of "BUT"

So I guess you have the ability to synthesize perfectly! hahaha … but I like your sense of self-sarcasm as well

Thank you, this is by far the highest praise I've ever received in my whole life... as it's really the first time someone praises my synthesis!

Sarcasm and self sarcasm will truly save the world! ;)

*end of the coffee break =_=*

RIchard wrote:I am not sure if I was just majorly miss understood or if there is just a huge gap in our languages. When I said zero wasn't even an option till the kiss scene what I meant is that in yukis eyes she started considering zero a possible lover at that point [He became an option to her] and before that point she didn't consider him a possible lover. [He wasn't an option to her] So those who said its sad if yuki is with zero just cause he is an option, of course cause you wouldn't be with some one that you didn't consider a possible lover aka option. The whole point that he is an option means that yuuki is interested in him as a lover to some degree.

Can I ask you ? what you do you think that make Zero as a possible lover for Yuuki? Just the kiss scene with both wore masks? Such a romantic kiss ne? I'm waiting your reply.

Duskola wrote:*appears during a coffee break*

Wonderful post nina!!!

nina wrote:
Cuz from any angle and if you look at it; for a human is by far more difficult (if not impossible) to throw everything aside in order to be with a PB rather than a PB to be with a hunter who is also a VAMPIRE, no?

And let us not forget that in the first arc, when she is still human and Kaname asks "Do you want to become a vampire so that you can stay with me?" she answers YES. Despite the "different lifespan" and despite the fact that she knows she surely would fall to Level E as an ex-human vampire ... What a strange behaviour, for a girl full of "BUT"

So I guess you have the ability to synthesize perfectly! hahaha … but I like your sense of self-sarcasm as well

Thank you, this is by far the highest praise I've ever received in my whole life... as it's really the first time someone praises my synthesis!

Sarcasm and self sarcasm will truly save the world! ;)

*end of the coffee break =_=*

If this isn’t an addiction I don’t know what is; Duskola hahahaha *thumbs up*

Just a clarification … a turned-human into vampire doesn’t lead necessarily to level-E. If the ex-human drink from the PB who turned him/her then it will led a life as a stabilized level-D vampire without the threat of the level-E-ness.
So in Yuuki’s case if she was indeed human I suppose that Kaname would’ve had given her his blood.
However; still their lifespan would have been totally different.

nina wrote:Just a clarification … a turned-human into vampire doesn’t lead necessarily to level-E. If the ex-human drink from the PB who turned him/her then it will led a life as a stabilized level-D vampire without the threat of the level-E-ness.
So in Yuuki’s case if she was indeed human I suppose that Kaname would’ve had given her his blood.
However; still their lifespan would have been totally different.

@nina: Obviously ;) I let this implied to underline the danger, for a simple human, to become a vampire - as Yuuki couldn't be 100% sure that Kaname would simply give her his blood forever: if, for any reason, he would stop, she would have surely fallen to Level E. Still, she answered "yes" without thinking twice, and without the slightest hint of disgust about embracing vampire's instincts.