Vampire Knight 87 FULL RAWS AND TRANSLATION

First topic message reminder :

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1935373666

translation here: http://vampire-knight.livejournal.com/1013045.html

nina wrote:And if we combine this with her flashbacks of a Yuuki who always treated Zero as a sub-mother/sister i.e. as a figure who wanted to protect and heal this boy from his suffering then her characterization now “boy” indicates that Yuuki still sees Zero like she used to.

Or maybe - let me guess - she refers to him as a "boy" because she remembered something that makes her feel much older than him? Oooooh pure speculation here, but let me dream!

nina wrote:
A girl who suddenly gotten into an erotic mood, who was expressing erotic signals, which one dance made her realize that she is in love (another absurd argument … one dance was enough; while 1,5 year of soul-searching was nothing! O.O … well Zero must be one hell of a dancer then ) then excuse me but the first thing that she should think about was the only romantic moment that had with this boy >> his love confession and his kiss!

That's why he've never wanted to dance before, he KNOWS the power of his dance and didn't want to be a danger to anyone, oh my!!!

But I'm with you, the kiss and "I only wanted your blood" part is missing, and it's a big hole.

nina wrote:then according to this logic Zero doesn’t love Yuuki but only her tasteful blood, no?!

Exactly, and - please let me play the part of the crazy Yume fan - "Oooooh can't you see? Zero never loved Yuuki, she was only attracted by her because he's been lonely for all his life and she was the one to take care of him, he doesn't want to be alone and lose everything again, plus he's a vampire, so his desire for good PB's blood is perfectly natural". How does this sound? Obvioulsy I never believed this (even if I've never read the word "love" in Zero's POV and sentences - did you?), but well, basing on what one wants to see in the scripts, we truly have an entire range of unexplored interpretations

nina wrote:
And I have another wonder… some fans are claiming that now Yuuki feels free to choose (for a number of reasons)

Really? I thought her only reason was Dirty Dancing Zero!

nina wrote:
and now she is able to express her true romantic feelings for Zero. (...)
So I’m asking; (...) Wasn’t she ready to abandon Zero forever without even to try; to fight for the man... ahem... boy she supposedly was in love? >___>
Are they happy with a girl who had abandoned her true love in order to live with another man just because was more convenient???
I’m in shock here really from such shallowness… cuz apparently if the things are like they believe that is, then isn’t Yuuki who made ANY choice here... isn’t Yuuki who finally chose Zero but Kaname...

Kaname foreseer AND wedding planner. Do you have some problems finding out who you truly love and who is the best for you? No problem at all: call Kaname-sama! The first and true love agency that has been granting the highest quality in meetings since 10'000 years ago!

Seriously. Let us not forget that we are talking about Yuuki. A girl who hasn't cared for the whole first arc of the story that Kaname was a vampire and she was a human, and thus her love was truly forbidden. A girl that loved Kaname when she was a child and KNEW he was her brother, that kept loving him after losing her memories, that kept loving him despite society and despite the fact that she thought he didn't return her feelings - she even thought that Kaname saw her as some kind of "pet"! A girl that kept loving him after seeing him feeding from Ruka, even if this reminded her the vampire that attacked her when she was five. I mean: a girl who didn't give a f*** about the two of them being a PB VAMPIRE and a HUMAN - that is, the natural prey of the vampire - would really care about society for TWO VAMPIRES who can't love because one of them is a HUNTER?

A girl that takes active part to Kaien's Academy in two very different times - when she is human AND when she is a vampire, to try and CHANGE society - a girl that went to Isaya with a scythe to ask him if he wanted to die, so that nobody else could be hurt by PB's whims - this is the girl you think that cares so much about the rules of her world and that wants to preserve and follow vampire society's rules as they are.

So, a girl like this, that has always been a fighter - how is she supposed not to be able to fight for the one she truly loves, not to fight for making him change his mind about her? Do you want to tell me that a girl who always put her efforts in fighting for her ideals, now is scared by the (false) hate Zero puts in his words - a hate that is clearly diminishing, and since a long BEFORE the ball - did you see Zero embracing Yuuki after Kaname's confession to have him manipulated? >> That his, I hate HIM, but I cherish YOU - or by the fact that their world are different? Please, so why she didn't give up with Kaname-sama, too?

(Anyway, she has always called Kaname "Kaname-sama" or "onii-sama" - but she called her parents "outo-sama" and "oka-sama", too, and I don't think she used to call her own parents this way to create some distance... - but the reason why she has been calling him Kaname-sama is explained both in Hino's manga and novels:

- when she's a human, she sees Kaname as impossible, unreachable, belonging to a world she couldn't understand and belong to

- she did want to create some distance after seeing this difference realized, that is, when Kaname took blood from Ruka.
BUT calling him Kaname-sama never prevented her to say also strong love words, as we can see in the post @nina wrote here.

Plus, calling -sama his/her own partner is a general use in shoujo, to show a deep love and respect.

So, if somebody wants to state that Kaname was brother-zoned, that Yuuki has never truly loved him but only wanted not to be alone, and so on, please take every sentence @nina gathered in that post and explain your reasons in details by actively building their consistence with the plot - and, above all, their consistence with those very sentences and episodes. Thanks).

---------------------------------------------------------

nina wrote:
If I’ll prove right, then this is a troll for the Zeki side... if I’m wrong then this is not only a troll for the Yumes but a deliberate deception not for one or few chapters but for years.
And before being misunderstood here... I do not mean of course that the story cannot change direction and shift from Yume to Zeki but not in this cheap, rushed, unjustifiable viz trolling way...

Exactly. But Zeki won't listen to you. They really think that you - and I, and others - don't care about the beauty and consistence of the story, we are simply deaf to their interpretation and we only want to be right at any cost. That is >>> argumenting in details = be right at any cost.
And you are feeling sorry for the possible Zeki trolling, but they won't feel sorry for Yume: they are only waiting for the very moment in which they will be finally right and defeat all deaf and stubborn Yume in the world, that were never able to see the truth despite all their pompous words, quotes and interpretations. Oh, my.

------------------------------------------------------------

nina wrote:
then we can assume that this party is the stage where the “drama” will be unfold

Let's hoooope soooooo I think I'm going to KILL EVIL HINO if she keeps taking time... I want to know Kaname's secreeeeeeeeet I don't give a f*** about the LT PLEASE LET ME KNOWWWWWWWWWWW

nina wrote:
Honestly if I see now a jealous Kaname and that’s it, I swear I will scream!

Me too. He's been too clever in following his plan - and he tried so hard to push Yuuki away - that he can't simply go there and falling into a trap that involves her woman kissing some boy AND he never wanted Yuuki to not cherish Zero, he let them alone to kiss goodbye and he accepted the "Zero is in my heart" childish words - that obviously Yuuki considers childish only because she feels guilty, let us not forget He went truly mad only when Zero started drinking her blood. But telling the truth about Zero in front of Yuuki and Zero, is like telling her "let me go" in front of his biggest supposed opponent. So, if he's going to be mad for a simple supposed kiss, well. This is truly out of the blue, too

nina wrote:
Because two things are keeping me “loyal” to this story >> a) Kaname’s character which thus far was unprecedented… almost perfect! and b) the successfully complemented 1st arc which makes me hope that the same will happen for the 2nd arc as well.

nina wrote:Isaya could talk about a trap but if he was in any kind of cooperation with Kaname he wouldn’t reveal that to Yuuki... (...) if you remember right after Kaname’s disappearance and when it became known that he killed Hanadagi and Aido-dono, Isaya received a note/letter from someone that we do not know. (...) still we do not know who the sender was, neither the content of it.

However Kaname gives the impression that at least in this phase of his plans he wanted to work alone and secondly if he wanted to meet Yuuki and Zero for some reasons he could have done that without the ball. I mean his previous behavior gave me the feeling that his plan was gearing towards the last phase plus that he wanted to keep Yuuki as far as he could from it... so why to set up now a ball with Isaya’s cooperation and bring her again in the center of the development?

Also Isaya’s words that he wanted to do something for his friends’ children; do not fit so much with Kaname’s attempts to distance himself from Yuuki... viz this ball probably ain’t included into his plans since it brings them together again.
So me too, I’m more inclined to think that Kaname was somehow “compelled” to attend there for some reason.

(...) Isaya could have his own agenda and he is using Yuuki thus and Kaname was compelled to appear. This would mean perhaps that Isaya isn’t exactly the peaceful or the friendly PB that seems to be. Well just another possibility lol.

Veeeery interesting points here! And I also noticed that Yuuki refers to Isaya as "the oldest among PB" (please correct me if I'm wrong). So, he surely was friend of Haruka and Juuri, as we can clearly and finally read here - and this may imply that Haruka and Juuri did something big concerning Yume, that can't be suddenly waisted? - but, how old is he, and what does he know? He probably knows everything, even Kaname's secret. As for him being an enemy, I don't think so. I think he's another key to cohexistence - that obviously, is not a part of the plot - as he seems to be Kaien's PB equivalent. Who knows?

nina wrote:
However I do not think that whatever and if she has in mind could harm Zero physically << that Yuuki would never endanger … not only Zero but no one else… it’s not in her nature. The only harm that Yuuki could possibly cause to Zero is emotionally again, something that Kaito’s words to Zero implied as well.

Yes, I didn't mean that Yuuki wanted to hurt Zero, but maybe she must do something that Zero won't like - or that could cause emotional pain to Zero, as you say - the big pain that he will have to overcome, together with the image of him standing in front of two coffins - nobody in the LT party seems to care about this, but I keep thinking about it. And, obviously, she doesn't want anybody to be hurt, but if this plan is so dangerous, she knows somebody may be hurt or killed, and she feels pre-emptively guilty to put all these people in danger.

Well, I was long as usual, so I'll stop here. For now!!!

Really? I thought her only reason was Dirty Dancing Zero!

haha, i am crying...sorry i can't stop laughing...and do you imagine Zero suddenly twisting, grabbing Yuuki, Yuuki ripping the rest of the dress and start dancing lambada?

sorry could not resist too that, its so funny cause the whole too romance thing is so out of his style also, his normal at least...

LOL @juliet, to tell you the truth, I keep imagining Zero dancing like John Travolta here or the two of them playing Grease: You're the one that I waaaant UUHUUUHHUUUUUUH

Duskola wrote:LOL @juliet, to tell you the truth, I keep imagining Zero dancing like John Travolta here or the two of them playing Grease: You're the one that I waaaant UUHUUUHHUUUUUUH

kaname is more travolta style...dark hair..black shirts...could Hino make that a musical?

haha, both dancing Yuuki and may the best dancer win... i cant get serious the dirty dancing Zero was a tough shock

juliet wrote:

Duskola wrote:LOL @juliet, to tell you the truth, I keep imagining Zero dancing like John Travolta here or the two of them playing Grease: You're the one that I waaaant UUHUUUHHUUUUUUH

kaname is more travolta style...dark hair..black shirts...could Hino make that a musical?

haha, both dancing Yuuki and may the best dancer win... i cant get serious the dirty dancing Zero was a tough shock

That’s it … I’m cracking up here

Spoiler:

Ah for Kaname I dedicate this one >>

Spoiler:

Oh my… I so want to see a close-up of his butt too

nina wrote:

juliet wrote:

Duskola wrote:LOL @juliet, to tell you the truth, I keep imagining Zero dancing like John Travolta here or the two of them playing Grease: You're the one that I waaaant UUHUUUHHUUUUUUH

kaname is more travolta style...dark hair..black shirts...could Hino make that a musical?

haha, both dancing Yuuki and may the best dancer win... i cant get serious the dirty dancing Zero was a tough shock

That’s it … I’m cracking up here

Spoiler:

this is the best ever! Nina you are one of the kind...

General rants about chapter 87 . Tons of speculations :

1-I have a huge question about what was the real purpose for Yuuki visiting the Kuran Manor . I doubt she made a whole day travel by speed train just to show Zero her home . Or to check if the house was dirty . Or for readers discover her key was the master key for the Kuran Manor ( It this was the purpose . Their visit has no need to cover any chapter 87 pages . )

My only guesses are that Yuuki was looking for some information or a small object that could fit into her pocket . A thing she didn't ( nor Hino ) wants the readers nor Zero to discover which was its purpose yet .

2- I actually was intrigued about when Yuuki or Zero would shown symptoms of blood lust / blood deprival . Because both had lost blood and being harmed recently . Without taking more blood . The last time for Yuuki was when she drank from Zero . Last for Zero when he drank from Sara .

So now the story has decided to state both are anemic and tired due to the lack of blood . And no blood tablets being enough for calming / aiding either of them .

The consequences of not getting blood for either of them is losing control and getting mad . But in Yuuki's case , this is pureblood's madness . The problem with Zero is , if he lost the few controls he has . Because of lack of blood . Because his body is asking for healing his hand's wound . Because if he fails to get what he desires : Yuuki and her blood . ( You can say this one is not a factor now . But he has not drank from Yuuki yet . ) One or all of these reasons could pull Zero to an ex - human , now vampire madness . To Level E .

So I'm watching to see if this chapter has the last proof of Zero could fall to Level E . Or if was only a bluff .

3- About Isaya's masquarede ball .

First , Yuuki wanted to ask Isaya for help . How convinient of Isaya . He already had set a trap to capture Kaname . A masquarede ball . Because he was so worried about his friends offsprings .

Here I have a weird doubt . I has this gut feeling of Isaya being the real White Chessmaster since a long time . No evidence for why I feel this . It could be just a stupid speculation .

But now I'm more inclined to feel Isaya has a more deeper part in the plot than being this good pureblood vampire , friend of Yuuki's real parents and adoptive father Kaien Cross . Who wanted to help both vampires and humans to settle this Kaname's issue for last . I know this is the part Isaya wants to play . Normally this is the logical development for the plot .

But why he wants the whole vampire society to know he is responsable of getting rid of Kaname , the traitor , in public . It could be fulfilling another purpose . Does Isaya wants to be the hero ? One who was hiding in shadows for a long time and not interfering with the conflicts between vampires and humans for so long . Become now the new vampire leader ; with the bless of the entire vampire society and hunters / humans ? With even the bless of Yuuki and Zero at his side as his weapons .

As I said . These are pure speculations . Isaya could just be a good guy . And none of what I felt could be true . But I be waiting for more development in the next 2 or 3 chapters .

4- Who are the caped , masked companions of Rima . There are some possibilities :

a- Some Night Class vampires

Shiki is the usual suspect . Who could be the 2 others are a little difficult to guess . Hanabusa or Takuma are good guesses . But I can't see how Takuma ,whose meant to be Kaname's witness of Kaname's destruction or success could be with more people in this ball . Hanabusa was at Cross Academy . No proof he left the Academy yet . Akatsuki , maybe ?

b- Some vampire hunters

The last time both Rima and Senri where shown .They were at the Hunter's Headquarters . Not so ridicule to consider they beg the help of the hunters for tracking Takuma and / or Kaname . Rima and Senri could voluntary beg to help the hunters to help their friend Takuma . So from one to 3 vampire hunters could be with Rima during the ball . Specially Kaien Cross . Who could be asked by Isaya for helping him with his plan to trap Kaname . The hunter with workable anti - vampire weapon available .

c - Surprise factor

This is a huge speculative situation . If this is the truth , Hino would made one of the biggest surprise turns of the story .
One of the caped , masked guys to be Aido - dono himself . Alive . With the other ones being Senri and Kaien Cross .

Why I think Hino could pull this . Is because she has not tell the readers yet anything about interrogating Ruka or Akatsuki after they being taken into custody by the hunters . Very strange . More than a week has passed ( maybe 2 ) from the time of the lost of the anti - vampire furnace to the present time . Enought time for Ruka feeling well to be interrogated by hunters . This time , I'm inclined Ruka will tell the truth of everything she knew .

If the hunters indeed interrogate both Akatsuki and Ruka . It's not impossible for any of them confess their uncle was really alive . That his " death " was a set up by Kaname to make Yuuki and Hanabusa hate him and protect them from getting involved with Kaname's plans . With the aid of Ruka's illusion power to create a fake death . If this happened , Kaien Cross would want Yuuki to see the truth . And the ball could be a good place for doing so .

It could even be the " trap " Isaya was planning for Kaname . Revealing Aido - dono was alive in front of the entire vampire society . Using Aido - dono as the source to reveal all of Kaname's plots in public .

Chapter 87 has been scanlated HERE

nina wrote:Chapter 87 has been scanlated HERE

Thank you, Nina

@Kara you are welcome

---

Duskola wrote: Anyway, she has always called Kaname "Kaname-sama" or "onii-sama" - but she called her parents "outo-sama" and "oka-sama", too, and I don't think she used to call her own parents this way to create some distance...

Well this is a “problem” for a translation from a language which’s using honorifics like Japanese to a language that is not like English. It’s difficult to convey the exact meaning or the importance.
However this is a substantial issue in Asian culture thus and Hino used it to show the progress or the change into Yuuki something that in the English text might not being so clear.
True Yuuki used to call Kaname with honorifics indicating respect and the difference in their status. Thus and after Kaname revealed his past to her she made the decision to start calling him simply Kaname. And indeed, even though in the beginning she was hesitant/shy about it, still after that Yuuki was referring to Kaname, simply as Kaname pinpointing that she started to see herself in a more equal status.

Plus, calling -sama his/her own partner is a general use in shoujo, to show a deep love and respect.

Oh yeah that! When I first started to read manga I was like WTF? A girlfriend is calling her boo with honorifics or even with his surname??? O.O
It sound soooo weird and alien for me hahaha.
However now I know that this is very common at least in the shoujo-manga (I do not know if this applies in RL to such extent though) … but especially is used to portray young, innocent and shy maidens. It’s a cliché I suppose.
So, a Western one must be really into it, in order to comprehend the meaning of the honorifics.

And I also noticed that Yuuki refers to Isaya as "the oldest among PB" (please correct me if I'm wrong).
but, how old is he, and what does he know? He probably knows everything, even Kaname's secret.

No you aren’t mistaken … Isaya is 2000 years old << this info was given after he woke from his 50 years slumber. So he is demonstrated as the oldest PB currently. Well I suppose at least the oldest awake/active PB at the time with the exception of Kaname of course. But since he is only 2000 years old probably he never met Kaname prior his slumber i.e. as ancestor.
We also knew that Isaya was an old friend of the Kurans from a long time ago

Spoiler:

Juuri was watching/protecting Isaya’s territory when he was again in a slumber in the past.

As for him being an enemy, I don't think so. I think he's another key to cohexistence - that obviously, is not a part of the plot - as he seems to be Kaien's PB equivalent. Who knows?

Yes you are right … his profile and the info that we have thus far for him do not match with a villain/enemy.
However it could be used as a huge twist that will leave us with our jaws open hahaha

the big pain that he will have to overcome, together with the image of him standing in front of two coffins - nobody in the LT party seems to care about this, but I keep thinking about it.

Hm… about that cover I had interpreted it that the coffins were there to indicate Zero’s losses >> mother, father and his brother. He had visited them at the cemetery anyway. The content of that chapter also supports that idea cuz was about the revelation of Kaname’s involvement into Zero’s drama and in that cover there is also Kaname.

So what triggers your imagination so much? I’m curious cuz I didn’t find it at all mysterious lol.

---

mariangie wrote: 1-I have a huge question about what was the real purpose for Yuuki visiting the Kuran Manor . I doubt she made a whole day travel by speed train just to show Zero her home . Or to check if the house was dirty . Or for readers discover her key was the master key for the Kuran Manor ( It this was the purpose . Their visit has no need to cover any chapter 87 pages . )

My only guesses are that Yuuki was looking for some information or a small object that could fit into her pocket . A thing she didn't ( nor Hino ) wants the readers nor Zero to discover which was its purpose yet

Same here Maria… if Yuuki took something then is something small that she can easily hide.
So my guesses are:
1. Or that the key that Kaname gave her it was indeed the key with which she opened the Kuran mansion; BUT it was important because it led her back in the house to take something else that we do not know yet.

2. Or the key that she’s wearing on her neck it’s not the key that Kaname gave her; hence she went there to take that particular key and Hino deliberately confused us… i.e. that there are 2 keys … the one that opens the Kuran mansion and the one which Kaname gave her and now she returned to take it.

2- I actually was intrigued about when Yuuki or Zero would shown symptoms of blood lust / blood deprival . Because both had lost blood and being harmed recently . Without taking more blood . The last time for Yuuki was when she drank from Zero . Last for Zero when he drank from Sara .

So now the story has decided to state both are anemic and tired due to the lack of blood . And no blood tablets being enough for calming / aiding either of them .

Well I do not know what role it will play the lack of blood for both of them; however I agree that since Hino pointed out it will deffo play a role.

And here I cannot stop wondering; what Kaname is doing? He was the most severe injured … how he managed to heal himself and what about his thirst?
My poor Kami *sob, sob*

First , Yuuki wanted to ask Isaya for help . How convinient of Isaya . He already had set a trap to capture Kaname . A masquarede ball . Because he was so worried about his friends offsprings .

You know… this is a point that I was wondering too and waiting to verify it through the scanlation but still from what I have read this point seems unclear.
In one scanlation is mentioned that it was Yuuki who had the idea of this ball.
In any case though, I find it pretty peculiar IF this ball was Isaya’s initiative without been first in any contact with Yuuki.
I mean is too much of a coincidence the very moment that Yuuki was heading to his house having in mind to ask for his help; he to have prepared this party/trap already on his own, isn’t it???
Also if was his own idea before he even come in contact with Yuuki then there is another loophole >>> why Yuuki wasn’t a bit surprised of that “diabolic” coincidence?
So for now I’m inclined to believe that Yuuki had already contacted him and Hino simply didn’t bother to show this detail thus and when Yuuki arrived at Isaya’s mansion he had prepared everything.
Now as for the idea of the party/trap it could have been Isaya’s indeed i.e. that Yuuki asked for his help and he suggested this masquerade ball. << This scenario doesn’t exclude the possibility for Isaya to have his own agenda and simply utilizes the perfect opportunity that Yuuki offered him by asking for his help.

The alternative viz that the timing was pure coincidence personally I would find it a major loophole in the script mostly cuz of Yuuki’s none surprise.

As for your speculations Maria about Isaya being a villain … I cannot say that it doesn’t make sense … on the contrary even though that Isaya’s profile thus far doesn’t support the idea.

However as I said in my previous post if something like this stands then this also might explain perfectly and Kaname’s appearance there, no?
Plus that Kaname seems like he took his final decision to materialize his OP the day that Yuuki had also visited Isaya with her scythe.
Maybe that visit is irrelevant with Kaname’s decision but since we still do not know what exactly tipped the scale for Kaname and the time fits, then one can at least wonder and consider this possibility as well.

c - Surprise factor

This is a huge speculative situation . If this is the truth , Hino would made one of the biggest surprise turns of the story .
One of the caped , masked guys to be Aido - dono himself . Alive . With the other ones being Senri and Kaien Cross .

Why I think Hino could pull this . Is because she has not tell the readers yet anything about interrogating Ruka or Akatsuki after they being taken into custody by the hunters . Very strange . More than a week has passed ( maybe 2 ) from the time of the lost of the anti - vampire furnace to the present time . Enought time for Ruka feeling well to be interrogated by hunters . This time , I'm inclined Ruka will tell the truth of everything she knew .

The surprise-surprise crossed my mind too

But aside from Aido-dono, is indeed weird why Hino didn’t show anything from Akatsuki and Ruka. While for Ruka, Hanabusa gave the info that she is still recuperating, thus maybe she wasn’t in position to give information, still this isn’t an excuse for Akatsuki.
And let’s say that the hunters didn’t ask him anything due to being occupied with the collapsed HA etc. … what I find fishy or weird is why Hanabusa didn’t try to talk with Akatsuki; rather he turned to Yuuki to find some answers from Kaname.
Shouldn’t he at least try to ask his cousin?

I think yukki visited the mansion to get the records of the other property's owned by the kuran house.

@nina:

nina wrote:Chapter 87 has been scanlated HERE

Thank you nina And after reading this scanlation I have to say that I've just learnt a lesson: WAIT. BEFORE. JUDGING. A. CHAPTER.
Well, reading the sentences applied to their correct panels gave me totally different feelings and sensations, and made me notice a lot of details that I simply ignored at first. Now all makes sense. Or MORE sense, at least

And the scene where Zeki heads are near, paired with FONDNESS , seems me less and less a kiss, now.

And I'd like very much to know some CONTEXTUALIZED opinions about the word FONDNESS - but probably this chapter was translated by a bunch of Yume's plotters, isn't it?

That’s it … I’m cracking up here
SPOILER:

YEEEEESSS!!! That was EXACTLY the pose I was thinking about! Oh my! I have to control myself. I've been laughing for this image during all day and my boyfriend has just said that this is the proof I've lost my last few fragments of sanity. Sob.

Hm... about that cover I had interpreted it that the coffins were there to indicate Zero’s losses >> mother, father and his brother. He had visited them at the cemetery anyway. The content of that chapter also supports that idea cuz was about the revelation of Kaname’s involvement into Zero’s drama and in that cover there is also Kaname.
So what triggers your imagination so much? I’m curious cuz I didn’t find it at all mysterious lol.

LOL I had interpreted this way too. But then I started noticing details - and this is the exact moment in which I start raving
I mean, the sentence "he's putting things on hold to deal with their remnants" may truly refer to all the fragments he has inside, and Kaname going away may truly refer to his involvement into his drama.
But then I noticed those white two roses, those two MAIN coffins, and then I thought that there are a lot of images in which Yuuki has a white rose in hand - so, that image became a mix of past and future for me, and I imagined those two coffins as Yume coffins (the two white roses) and Zero left behind "to deal with their remnants" - the "big pain" he will have to overcome. BUT if we interpret the image like this, Kaname going away has no sense at all. So your explanation is much more consistent.
I have to say that the main reason I speculated so much is my deepest fear - the two of them dead in the end . I simply guessed in that image the realization of my own fear - and I was scared so please don't mind. I'm surely wrong.

--------------------------------------------------------

@mariangie:

Wonderful post , as the one before. It inspired me very much and I think that your speculations are incredibly sharp!

mariangie wrote:
I already told about the possibility of a false Zeki ending . Where people could believe Yume is lost and there is no way for saving their relationship . The time appears to be now .

Exactly, this is what I was relating some posts ago talking about "someone" who had foreseen a "false" Zeki ending So, I remembered correctly and getting older is not affecting my memories at all - ehrm >_>

1-I have a huge question about what was the real purpose for Yuuki visiting the Kuran Manor . I doubt she made a whole day travel by speed train just to show Zero her home . Or to check if the house was dirty . Or for readers discover her key was the master key for the Kuran Manor ( It this was the purpose . Their visit has no need to cover any chapter 87 pages . )

My only guesses are that Yuuki was looking for some information or a small object that could fit into her pocket . A thing she didn't ( nor Hino ) wants the readers nor Zero to discover which was its purpose yet .

After reading the scanlations, I think that you're totally right. The sentences in bold express perfectly the frustration I had when reading the raws for the first time: I hadn't noticed the lapse of time between Yuuki's going upstairs and she coming back to Zero. Not so long - that's why Zero says she didn't take her time - but long enough for him to fall asleep.
AND her hands behind her back - those panels suggests me that she made something secret, that she took something inside those hands some moments before, and that she's hiding somewhere what she took. A very small thing, as you say.
Plus, as you I don't want to believe that Kaname left her the key just because she could go there and check if the cat had some food. He told her "Don't hesitate". "Don't hesitate" to do what?

So I'm watching to see if this chapter has the last proof of Zero could fall to Level E . Or if was only a bluff .

Me too! And I have been feeling the very same sensation, that in the end Zero will truly fall to level E (and be saved, I hope). That is, all the first arc is based on Yuuki's efforts not to make him fall to level E, she hasn't used her infamous bracelet yet - well, at first, I thought that the "kiss" could hide her using it but I have no evidence at all - and where is the f****** gun that Zero lent her to kill him? Hino is too clever to let all this holes open...

First , Yuuki wanted to ask Isaya for help . How convinient of Isaya . He already had set a trap to capture Kaname . A masquarede ball . Because he was so worried about his friends offsprings .

I'm with @nina here: at first I was startled by the "coincidence" of Isaya's invite in the exact moment Yuuki's going to ask for help. But Yuuki says "I'm going to ask Isaya for help" to Zero. And she doesn't want Zero to know what she took in her house and what her true plan is.
BUT she needs him in health, that's why she offers her blood to him? well, this is only a speculation of mine
So, I'm with @nina's opinion, that Isaya and Yuuki planned something before, and that Isaya may have planned also something else - with Kaien, or somebody we can't foresee.

And connecting to this topic, I have to say that I was startled by the fact that some chapters ago Kaien even sealed Yuuki's power when she grew her wings to follow Kaname - and now, he simply let her go without even greet her in person - sending Kaito.
This is very strange if we think that only some time ago he didn't want Yuuki to be involved with the "dangerous plan" of Kaname (that he KNOWS - almost a part of it).
Plus, when Yuuki goes to Isaya with the scythe, Kaien is there - only to have a visit remembering good ol' times? Maybe.
Oh, I think, as @mariangie, that the both of them - Kaien and Isaya - are far less neutral than it seems - and if we are playing chess, well, there may be a lot of pieces involved to make checkmate to the Black King. So, Isaya may have planned something with Kaien, and may even have planned something for his own interests, or with a third person that I can't guess for now. I think that Isaya's neutral position lets him keep in contact with a whole range of people with opposite interests. And we're surely going to be surprised! But, as @nina, I don't think that his character could change in something completely different - that is, evil - and - for now - I don't think he wants to show "something" to vampire society, so that he can gain power. I'm not saying it's not possible - there may be some involvement in Kuran's past about him that we don't now yet - but, well, if he means to gain power only by showing that Aido-dono is not really dead: this is very strange, because it's plain that the main reason why vampires fears Kaname as a villain is Aido-dono's death out of the blue. If he shows them that Kaname didn't really kill him - well, this could restore Kaname's reputation a bit, and go at his advantage. So, if he wants to show Yuuki and a bunch of people that Kaname is not a true villain but has his own reason - well, this is truly "making something for the children of his old friends".
The matter is, what something? I remember that Isaya's children have become human in some way, am I right? Maybe his wife sacrificed herself for this, or maybe there's another way? May it be that this "making something for the children of his friends" is "letting the two of them to become human without having one of them to die"? May it be that Isaya knows some way to turn vampires to human, that doesn't involve sacrifice? Or that he loved so much Jurika that wants to sacrifice himself for their sake? AND this whole delirium tremens () leads me to think: is it possible that Yuuki's plan to STOP Kaname is to sacrifice herself so that he can become human? We've been thinking until now that this is Kaname's plan for Yuuki - or, well, this is what he told to Kaien, at least . So, wouldn't be sooooo funny that Yuuki had the very same idea? I mean: how can you possibly STOP a pure god like Kaname? There are two ways: killing him - and I don't think Yuuki wants to do this, almost not staying alive after - OR nullifying - inhibite - his powers.
Exactly AS Juuri did with Yuuki. Inhibite him, maybe sacrificing herself, and erasing his memories so that he doesn't remember. This would be very Yuuki-style BUT obviously, this may be her plan, but nothing is going to happen as she planned - a poor, alone, human Kaname lost in a world without Yuuki? I don't want to believe Hino is preparing such a sad ending.

Well, let's put an end to this enormous speculation

I'm with both @nina and @mariangie again as regards Rukain at the Association Headquarters. I don't think NOBODY of their friends went and talk with them, or that they wouldn't try and make something despite Kaname's orders - let us remember they don't love Kaname because he's a pureblood, they really care for him. Still, Kaname left them behind - hadn't he foreseen that they could say something about his plan?

Or maybe he has a little, lingering hope to be stopped? "Don't hesitate".........

---------------------------------------------

RIchard wrote:
I think yukki visited the mansion to get the records of the other property's owned by the kuran house.

Yes, she could have done this if she wanted to go and check every house to see where Kaname is - that is, pure madness O_O it would have took months, and she states here she doesn't have time to loose. AND Kaname has shown, so there's no need to go and check. Who knows?

If you look at the other panels you can easily tell why yukki put her hands behind her back, when she walked up to zero and thought he was asleep she tried to touch him. but as she reached his eyes opened, her hand twitched and she stood up straight and locked her hands behind her back. It is common behavior to see when some one loves some one but cant express it.

Yes, and I think it's common behaviour to call this love "fondness", too.

Seriously. She may truly have both stopped from touching Zero and feeling embarassed because she was hiding something from him - the two things may coexist. So, let's concentrate upon the most important thing: what did she do upstairs? And, if you think she went there to take some sort of registry of Kuran's properties, please feel free to tell what plan do you think she has and what she could use this for ;)

Duskola wrote: And after reading this scanlation I have to say that I've just learnt a lesson: WAIT. BEFORE. JUDGING. A. CHAPTER.
Well, reading the sentences applied to their correct panels gave me totally different feelings and sensations, and made me notice a lot of details that I simply ignored at first. Now all makes sense. Or MORE sense, at least

And the scene where Zeki heads are near, paired with FONDNESS , seems me less and less a kiss, now.

Haha Duskola I deffo second that >> WAIT. BEFORE. JUDGING. A. CHAPTER.

As for the fondness, or cherish, or treasure etc… Yuuki had said almost the same things again for Zero… in fact the moment is quite similar with the present scene in question >>

Spoiler:

While she was reminiscing Zero’s almost-kiss she had the same feelings/thoughts for him >>> I wanted to cherish him and in the next page she continues by thinking >> yes he is precious to me

Isn’t the content the same? Did Yuuki reveal to us something new now; in order to be interpreted as if it has romantic implications?

This is the perfect example/proof that even when Yuuki thought of Zero as sibling/best-friend still she described her feelings using words like, cherish and precious!


And I do not have to remind the aftermath when she was with Kaname a few minutes later huh?

YEEEEESSS!!! That was EXACTLY the pose I was thinking about! Oh my! I have to control myself. I've been laughing for this image during all day and my boyfriend has just said that this is the proof I've lost my last few fragments of sanity. Sob.

… Join the club Duskola! Mine has compromised a loooong time ago with my insanity when it comes to Kaname

Hmmm...It could very well be that Yuuki had a change of heart when she went upstairs to do whatever she did up there. Maybe Kaname left her a note, saying I want you to start pursuing Zero now...that would explain why she didn't look like she was caught cheating when Kaname appeared after the kiss.

The reason I assume she is there for the data on the other estates in the kurane house is cause what she says in the bottom right panel of chapter 86 page 26. It is also possible she just went there to try to trigger some memories.
But in all hunesty I belive it is just hino's way of building up some tension with zeki, we have yukki wanting to touch zero but then isn't able to, we have zero wanting to get yukki to drink his blood but she lies saying she is fine. We have yukki trying to get zero to drink her blood by force,... for a sec I thought hino went nuts and she was going rape him lol but then he saying he is fine. Then we have yukki wanting to dance with zero but she refuses to [I assume this cause what other reason would Isaya offer unless he noticed she wanted to him self.] Then they start talking and yukki tries to start over [she does that a lot lol] jokingly. Then zero offers his hand for the dance and then all the tension breaks leading to the kiss.

Now I got a question, why does kaname address zero with kun? Isn't he suppose to dislike zero and only look at him as a tool? Also why was kaname so disgusted when zero drank sara's blood? It doesn't add up if zero is only a tool to him.

RIchard wrote:Now I got a question, why does kaname address zero with kun? Isn't he suppose to dislike zero and only look at him as a tool? Also why was kaname so disgusted when zero drank sara's blood? It doesn't add up if zero is only a tool to him.

It's coz Kaname is secretly in love with Zero.

Normally, Kaname wouldn't let anyone near Yuuki but for some reason he allows Zero to be close to Yuuki. At first, it was so that Zero could free him of Rido but then just when Yuuki was ready to start over with him, he pushed her away and right into Zero's arms. Yuuki must have taken the hint when she visited the Kuran mansion, that's why out of the blue she's jumping Zero and kissing him when in the previous chapter she friend zoned Zero. (Haha, joking)

Still, I'm dying to see Yuuki's reason for kissing Zero, surely she will comment on it. You can't just kiss someone and act like it didn't happen.

Kaname call Zero Zero- kun as a polite way to address him . Kun is a polite way to address a young man younger than you ( Kaname is supposed to be ~19 vampire years old and Zero is 18 years old . )

Zero is the one who had address Kaname without honorifics . Because he hates him and has no respect for Kaname during several occasions .

Kaname has to allow Zero as part of Yuuki's life . Because he needed a shield to protect Yuuki . As he can't be near her to do so . Even if he hates ( and is jealous ) of this closeness between Yuuki and Zero .

It's a posibility than Kaname is trying to make Yuuki and Zero closer than before as a way to make Zero stay at her side as her knight and protector . This is kind of similar to Code Geass second arc plot . Where Lelouch creates a way to become himself the scapegoat of all bad things . To unite both sides and to create a condition forcing Susaku to be his sister protector and knight forever after he left ( "died " ) .

But I'm inclined to believe Yuuki is trying to know if her feelings for Zero continues to be only she cares Zero as a boy . Or if she has changed and now sees Zero as a man . Because all the flashbacks Yuuki saw during the kiss scene were as she remembers Zero during the time she was " human " . But the "But , I ... "part of that scene I think is related she can't love Zero as a man . Because she continues to have feelings as a man for Kaname . Sort of the Twilight Saga ( I know people hates these comparisons . ) When Bella needs to kiss Jacob to make sure what were her true feelings for both guys .

http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/87 >> I link here the other translation version by WhiteLily ;) so that we can discuss here the choice they made: to translate FONDNESS with I LOVE HIM , that we are discussing here, too.

Translator's note:

"Suki can mean like or love, but the scene in context is romantic, hence "love" is used instead of "like", with either word the implication is romantic"

http://s2scanlations.com/online/reader/read/vampire_knight/en/0/87/page/1 >> S2S translates SUKI with FONDNESS, instead. @nina, or anybody else, can you find the Japanese equivalent of the page you reported in your last post, in which Yuuki says "I cherish him" and so on? So that we can finally understand if WhiteLily made a good translation, or simply let the interpretaton overcome the translation =_=

I'd like also to know what Japanese word she uses to describe her feelings for Kaname.

mariangie wrote:Kaname has to allow Zero as part of Yuuki's life . Because he needed a shield to protect Yuuki . As he can't be near her to do so . Even if he hates ( and is jealous ) of this closeness between Yuuki and Zero .

Exactly, this has seemed plain to me from the very beginning.

Sort of the Twilight Saga ( I know people hates these comparisons . ) When Bella needs to kiss Jacob to make sure what were her true feelings for both guys .

Ohohoh but you HAVE to make such comparisons because if the suddenly twist of the story can only be explained with "Oh, this kind of story goes this way", well, let's examinate how THIS KIND OF STORY goes, in reality and even if I don't like Twilight, I've already referred to Bella/Jacob relationship for example.

Duskola wrote: @nina, or anybody else, can you find the Japanese equivalent of the page you reported in your last post, in which Yuuki says "I cherish him" and so on? So that we can finally understand if WhiteLily made a good translation, or simply let the interpretaton overcome the translation =_=

I’ll try to find it but I doubt that Yuuki would use the word “Ai (愛)” or "aishite imasu （愛しています）"== I love you, cuz except that this isn’t so often in Japanese culture it is very bold for a character like Yuuki.

Just a random reference that I found by googling.

Spoiler:

Thus I insist that in order one to be sure about the essence of Yuuki’s words is necessary to know the continuation. Here we do not know if they actually kissed!
And I dare anyone who is sure that they did; to answer why Hino did NOT show it????

Also the FACT that there is a variety in the translations I think it answers itself to the question IF there is absoluteness regarding Yuuki’s romantic feelings.
The FACT that all the other sources used words similar to “cherish” and not to “eros” also provides answers.

Anyway… personally I do not rely at all on the scanlation which uses a debatable interpretation as a FACT (by their own statement) and for reasons that I mentioned in my other post.

I read all the available sources yet I make choices on which I can rely or not.
Thus I’m not gonna promote/advertise further something that I do not regard and so reputable, to put it as much as I can in “political correct” manner.
But I repeat this is my personal opinion.

@nina, I reported some use of kanji I found on Google also here. And I repeat that I would like very much to know, for example, what's the kanji used in the sentence "Kaname-sama... I love you, I love you, you are all my world" and many others.

But as you say, we may never find the kanji "AI" in every sentence Yuuki said because - as stated in the link I posted in the other topic - is very rare for a Japanese to use such strong words. SO, IF Yuuki ever used these towards Kaname - but, as you say, he probably used some "SUKI"-prefix-suffix to refer to him, as it's common in Japanese culture - I was saying IF she did this, it's absolutely out of doubt that using "suki" here is not a real twist in the story - she must at least use some sentence on the same level to make us understand that she now loves Zero.

IF she never did, as you say, it's too soon to interpret this scene as romantic without any doubt, especially because of the "BUT" in the end.

But, oh, I'm tired to try and explain I'm not against any Zeki ending and I'm only trying to stay consistent with the plot and all translations (AND Japanese AND Japanese culture) - and that I'm not trying to change anyone else's mind - I'm only counter-argomenting by gathering some proofs - and I may be totally wrong. I would like to read some good counter-arguments, not only guesses, interpretations, opinions, or repeating always the same two or three explanations, often simply skipping our quotes and questions (I'm not referring to somebody in particular, I'm speaking in general - so please don't feel offended by these words, any of you).

It's so hard =___=

Been Forever since i've climbed out of my cage and decided to post, although lurking works just fine as well

Honestly, i'm not surprised. I'm more surprised at those who are surprised and/or confused.
Other than the Y&Z development not alot of things happened.I do feel the kiss is romantic. Yuuki thoughts just give that impression. And she didn't back away and allowed to him to lean close........
I'm suspicious of Isaya, but just out of gut feeling.
Which i hope i'm wrong. Because i kinda like Isaya a little
He's charming
What breaks my heart is that Kaname has to see this. It'll be better if they did that in private
But alas, the Zeki half of my heart jumps in joy while the Yume side is crying and begging me to stay loyal.
And isn't easy if Hino makes such amazing relationships.
But i feel next chapter it'll flip, and my Yume side will cheer and my Zeki side will crawl into a hole.
Up into the final blow to one of the two ships.

@MorningStar: wonderful comment ;)

And isn't easy if Hino makes such amazing relationships.

>> exactly.

Duskola wrote:@MorningStar: wonderful comment ;)

And isn't easy if Hino makes such amazing relationships.

>> exactly.

Thanks.
Hino do make really good relationships. Each pairing has it flaws and good points, but thats why i can't help but love them both. Sometimes my heart leans for one side but then the other side snaps it back into balance.

It isn't end pairing yet. But this do remind me of how much Yuuki's heart is tied to both men.

@ Duskola: Hi Duskola, to answer your question, I have asked a friend who good at Jappanese and she told me this:

Spoiler:

About Japanese word Yuuki uses to describe her feelings for Kaname:

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Kaname-sama... I love you (I like you so much), I love you. You are begining of my world and everything from that world

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: I love him (or I like him alot). When I think of him... It's the only thing in my head almost to the point that I lose myself...

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: How could I hate? I always love you (like you so much) from back and then

Word she used: Daisuki (大好き)

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Because for all this time. I've been in love with my brother.

Word she used: Koishite(恋して)

Yuuki had said "Ai" before but I think she meant Kaname's feeling for her

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Is it a bad thing? It's too painful if I have to be alone for all eternity... It's only normal to want someone to snuggle up together isn't it...? When I think of him I feel so much love and sadness. Is it bad thing that the same feeling make me want to latch on his throat and devour his blood and even his life to taste his feeling in it? .

Spoiler:

Translation:
Yuuki: Yes. I am lonely and I do want to be with him. And he's endured so much sadness for my sake. So much love and so much sadness.

Both words "love" she used are "ai"（愛）

Hope that will help you