Zeki or Yume?

First topic message reminder :

If you like Zero or Kaname then I guess you are either Zeki or Yume. Which one do you prefer to see and why?

VampireCythia wrote:Yeah shall I tell you what we think is romantic in it? While Kaname was away, Zero has always been there for her. In one of the extra chapters we see Kaname leave while Yuuki is sick. Zero stays outside the door all the time. He is worried about her.

I had met this phrase somewhere, but I forgot where but contains the same mistake in logic.

I think while you wrote this phrase, and cheer up for zeki romance, you forgot an important detail, called circumstances. In short you forgot the whole picture here.

Was yuuki a human or not when she was sick?
Was kaname or not under council surveillance when yuuki was sick?
Was kaname or not in Asato care?
Did or not kaname sneak out to visit yuuki?

If we judged the circumstances at that time:

1. kaname and yuuki were separated, aka they lived in different houses.
2. yuuki's existence was kept a secret, and kaname couldn't afford to stay too much around yuuki.
3. since jaruka and juuri's death, kaname was in asato's care, and he was watched by the council.

It wouldn't have been easier for zero to stay at her door since he lived in the same house with yuuki. and if my memory serve me right, and it does, zero stayed there because yuuki did the same when he not felt well, hence zero felt indebt to yuuki.

This scene you promoted zeki romance has zero romance in it. It was pure concern for a person who watched over him at some point.

Katherine wrote:Of course there is romance between Yuuki and Zero, we can´t doubt that but I think the point is (what everyone wanted to say ) we expected more!

I agree Katherine. The thing that gets me is that at critical moments one of them has pulled back really. After they kissed Zero pushed Yuuki away and to me effectivly closed the door on being with her. Yes Zero wanted Yuuki happy but if he knew or suspected part of her heart was attached to him wouldnt you expect him to fight for her? In the recent chapter Yuuki didnt respond how i would have thought whe Zero hugged her. The guys bascially emotionally in alot of pain and needing comfort, shouldnt she have hugged him back? You could say it went to fast for her to react but surely some movement towards maybe going to hug him or moving closer? I was a bit disappointed really with Yuuki in that scene. It's these times i've expected more but nothing has come of it. Also we had several chapters where zero and yuuki could have developed a relationship as kaname was away yet they have not really prgressed far, i dont think at the moment you can call them friends yet.

and don´t say he loves yuuki endlessly and without exceptions...she is a pureblood, the thing Zero hates the most...how can you say their love is endless when such a thing is the case, would you feel well when for example your partner says he loves you so much but hates your orgin, your family and what makes you a part of your family...Zero has to accept Yuuki´s nature at first, then there might be a chance for more romance

Exactly. This is something that would need addressing if Zeki was ever to happen. We know Zero doesnt feel betrayed by Yuuki but does he accept what she is? Can he accept that not all vampire and purebloods are bad? Just like how all humans and hunters arent good.

I think the fact that Yume talks all the time and never understands each other isn´t right too...ok Kaname has secrets she doens´t quite get but be honest has Yuuki always known Zero totally, what about him becoming a vampire, not bearing the tablets (at the beginning), pairing up with Sara...Yuuki didn´t knew it from the beginning, and be honest, would you want your partner to know everything about you?
I think Kaname and Yuuki have a silent understanding too

Yes with Yume there is still a lack of understanding however we have seen progress really in terms of learning more about each other and starting to understand. Yuuki has seen his past, she learnt something new about him while in their relationship, something very major. Also when Zero delivered Kaname's message Yuuki saw through it. That shows some understanding of Kaname. So this issue in Yume is being dealt with as we speak, and thats what should happen in a relationship working towards more understanding, progressing something Yume is doing i feel.

In regards to Yuuki knowing Zero as you mentioned Katherine yuui didnt know all about Zero. He kept his past mostly hidden really, she didnt even know he had a twin brother until that time in the ice cream parlour. You could say now Yuuki understands zero fully but then this is how i view it, she knows him yet she still picks another over him. This i dont see as a good sign really. Even when she understands him etc she still has chosen another. Personally i find this quite a big indicator on several things.

@Aya-chan: Exactly kaname was being watched and had to keep yuuki hidden. We've seen how he had to sneak away several times from his watchers to go and see yuuki. He was treading a thin line really and think about it, he risked getting caught when he knew yuuki was ill, shows he cares alot to me.

Katherine wrote:
Of course there is romance between Yuuki and Zero, we can´t doubt that but I think the point is (what everyone wanted to say ) we expected more!

That's exactly my point . I expect to see more passion in Zeki couple .

I want to see more romance in the Zeki relation if something is going to happen . I don't want to read 100 chapters manga to get a Zeki ending with only 2 or 3 final love scenes .

Why I have to read post by Zekis defending their position using friendship arguments only ? This is exactly a post I would do to shown how Yuuki needs Zero in her life . And I a Yume , not Zeki .



I know Zero loves Yuuki . Yuuki loves both Zero and Kaname . Now is the time for Zero to try to get Yuuki at his side . As he knows Kaname is trying to push Yuuki out of his life . And what we get so far is : Zero trying to avoid Yuuki follow Kaname . Comforting her about her feelings as she felt responsable of Zero's tragedy . Then pushing her again from his side . He loves Yuuki . But Zero's problem is knowing Yuuki did continue to have love feelings for Kaname no matter how bad Kaname's actions are .

and don´t say he loves yuuki endlessly and without exceptions...she is a pureblood, the thing Zero hates the most...how can you say their love is endless when such a thing is the case, would you feel well when for example your partner says he loves you so much but hates your orgin, your family and what makes you a part of your family...Zero has to accept Yuuki´s nature at first, then there might be a chance for more romance

This is a main issue between Yuuki and Zero . No matter which ending happens in the end . Zero needs to accept who he is and what Yuuki is . Before anything important changed in their relationship.

The only point I could add is : this issue has to be resolved no matter if Zero and Yuuki ends in a romantic relationship or not .

I think the fact that Yume talks all the time and never understands each other isn´t right too...ok Kaname has secrets she doens´t quite get but be honest has Yuuki always known Zero totally, what about him becoming a vampire, not bearing the tablets (at the beginning), pairing up with Sara...Yuuki didn´t knew it from the beginning, and be honest, would you want your partner to know everything about you?
I think Kaname and Yuuki have a silent understanding too

I have to agree with Bloodredhead here .

Only to add . If no further conflict between Kaname and Yuuki happened after chapter 49 . The story would had end no more than 1 to 2 chapters after chapter 49 .

We are lacking of Yume's romantic moments too . But at least both Yuuki and Kaname are more vocal about their feelings for each other for what I get from recent chapters .

Yuuki and Kaname did have a lot of conflicts at this time . As why Kaname is trying to push Yuuki out of his life ? When we know he loves her and can't survive long without her love . Why Kaname is lying to Yuuki about himself , his past and a lot of things ? When he promised to her to not hide anything more from her . Why Yuuki insist to believe in Kaname and desiring to follow him to stop him for harming others and himself ?

Actually I didn't go that route precisely because I didn't want to invite the flames by saying i love zeki because of the romance ( since it's always shot down by someone saying there IS no romance).... but it seems playing nice I don't get a break either. xP

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Actually I didn't go that route precisely because I didn't want to invite the flames by saying i love zeki because of the romance ( since it's always shot down by someone saying there IS no romance).... but it seems playing nice I don't get a break either. xP

Zeki vs Yume its a debate area in all spectrum i guess, simple challenge of preference but also an area to test what you remember from the manga...


In General my views;

Zeki has the potentiality of a good friendship right now, literally there are no sparkles of romance at the moment, there are too much in the way (from both sides) and for me at least the question for Yuuki in relation with Zero had always been how she can help him out and push him for the better> I have not seen another attitude that has changed here. If this is romance then perhaps its redefined by Hino; no love lines, no intention to share a common life (stated at the past or now), no sense of commitment. Right now Yuuki is at the academy because she had no choice! (haha, I remember here old arguments...and its turning into a boomerang). She is pushed to take his blood, her desire to drink blood is conveyed by Hino into a thirst attack that could have hurt her best friend, Zero's offer is sealed with the DC safety...

So no free will expressed anywhere in there that can indicate romance in a clear and satisfactory sense for the readers....I do not know how Zeki fans are satisfied by so few sparkles here and there, taking into account the very lack of love scenes (okay preference but too few food)

Yume is the canon couple, intense, passion, love, commitment, all there....Yume is not fighting to survive (because as we know they both feel strong about each other) but it's fighting to break...from Kaname's part. I think that he wants to set Yuuki free from his love spell so that he can continue with his plan and no longer bring bitterness and sorrow to her (at least this is what it appears to be). I think that at the last chapter Yuuki really showed and revealed a part of her thoughts and her desires, there are obstacles but they very intentional and technical. For me they have a very strong base to unite them and its easier to come together because Hino has built up all their romance there and she also placed Kaname's past in the script, which makes Yuuki cling to that part and to better understand his weaknesses, not to fall for his lies (apart fom all the other great revelations and plot elements that Kaname's past brings in). At least that's my thoughts for now.

juliet wrote:

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Actually I didn't go that route precisely because I didn't want to invite the flames by saying i love zeki because of the romance ( since it's always shot down by someone saying there IS no romance).... but it seems playing nice I don't get a break either. xP

Zeki vs Yume its a debate area in all spectrum i guess, simple challenge of preference but also an area to test what you remember from the manga...


In General my views;

Zeki has the potentiality of a good friendship right now, literally there are no sparkles of romance at the moment, there are too much in the way (from both sides) and for me at least the question for Yuuki in relation with Zero had always been how she can help him out and push him for the better> I have not seen another attitude that has changed here. If this is romance then perhaps its redefined by Hino; no love lines, no intention to share a common life (stated at the past or now), no sense of commitment. Right now Yuuki is at the academy because she had no choice! (haha, I remember here old arguments...and its turning into a boomerang). She is pushed to take his blood, her desire to drink blood is conveyed by Hino into a thirst attack that could have hurt her best friend, Zero's offer is sealed with the DC safety...

So no free will expressed anywhere in there that can indicate romance in a clear and satisfactory sense for the readers....I do not know how Zeki fans are satisfied by so few sparkles here and there, taking into account the very lack of love scenes (okay preference but too few food)

Yume is the canon couple, intense, passion, love, commitment, all there....Yume is not fighting to survive (because as we know they both feel strong about each other) but it's fighting to break...from Kaname's part. I think that he wants to set Yuuki free from his love spell so that he can continue with his plan and no longer bring bitterness and sorrow to her (at least this is what it appears to be). I think that at the last chapter Yuuki really showed and revealed a part of her thoughts and her desires, there are obstacles but they very intentional and technical. For me they have a very strong base to unite them and its easier to come together because Hino has built up all their romance there and she also placed Kaname's past in the script, which makes Yuuki cling to that part and to better understand his weaknesses, not to fall for his lies (apart fom all the other great revelations and plot elements that Kaname's past brings in). At least that's my thoughts for now.

See, and that is why I don't support Yume... It's boring. Too easy, too predictable the couple "meant to be" isn't interesting at all...it's cliche. The reason Zekis are happy with what they get is because the ties that seemed to be broken between the two(zero and yuuki) are still lingering, since there's so much for yumes to be satisfied with already, you might not understand this point of view.... But I believe when someone has to fight and wait for something that rarely comes about, it just intensifies the enjoyment of it. Well... I guess Kaname somewhat experienced that,with vampire yuuki being sealed away in her head for 10 years...and then with him fighting to be with her and finally achieving it.That's why he was so passionate about her when he finally could be with her. However, if it was as simple as a yume ending, Hino should have ended there... after the battle at cross academy when Kaname took yuuki with him.... it would've been the perfect ending for yumes and the depressing ending for zekis.... But even Hino's not that cruel, she didn't break the ties completely between yuuki and zero, they have met up again by chance on several occasions, and this allows hope for their relationship to be restored. Zero confessed his feelings... the thing zeki's are waiting for is for Yuuki to respond to that, since she clearly didn't before, but still cares for him a lot.... Kaname hates zero...obviously. So if there's any chance of Zero and Yuuki even being friends again, Yuuki will have to make the choice to either let Zero go, or let Kaname go... in the end it's all very unpredictable but both sides should have equal hope since her inner feelings are still unknown. I can't wait until the next chapter so we can see what Yuuki finally does to "stop kaname" like she's been saying for the past few chapters.... and I also want to see if her and Zero can have an actual civil conversation to work things out. Not to say she shouldn't with Kaname as well.... she needs to confront him, ask about his true intentions and actually do something about it if she disagrees with him. Those are my thoughts. :3

Too easy, too predictable the couple "meant to be" isn't interesting at all...it's cliche.

Haha, that's my thoughts over Zeki, well a part at least, i agree that yume is a cliche but in a nice, romantic way, i guess there are always fans there that love the more traditional stories, classic value.

For me Zeki is flat...a straight line that has no peaks and no falls, not as friends, I mean as love-to-be partners. If they ever develop such feelings that is left to be seen how they shall interact as a couple.

The reason Zekis are happy with what they get is because the ties that seemed to be broken between the two(zero and yuuki) are still lingering, since there's so much for yumes to be satisfied with already, you might not understand this point of view....

m...I do understand it, but i do not think of it as enough romance elements to keep my interest in the couple...

However, if it was as simple as a yume ending, Hino should have ended there... after the battle at cross academy when Kaname took yuuki with him.... it would've been the perfect ending for yumes and the depressing ending for zekis....

Well that was the first part that Hino had intended for her story, she has stated that this was not the end (when asked about it towards the end of the first arc) but she has intended two parts. I understand what you say but story begins focusing on the co-existence and peace among the two races; that's the core element and that's the one that has to close to circle; above all this is the strife about.

And the first arc was mostly spend ( as we see now) in order to bring the elements together; Zero became a hunter, Yuuki a pureblood, Kaname revealed his identity as ancestor, the vampire society showed its teeth, the main couple united, the camps shifted.

What I mean to say is that this is not just about romance, even though romance is the driving force of the script, all these elements heat up the tension for the second arc and set the foundation where the co-existence can now be achieved.

the second arc opens again with the breaking of the canon couple > like opening again along with the fight for co-existence, the fight for love can not bloom under the current circumstances, despite all the fighting it has been through. that also intensifies the yume part where feelings got so much time to develop and bring them together, so how easy is it to break it?

It is then when comes the realization that even though the canon couple went so much to be together it has to break in order for the greater idea of the co-existence to be achieved.

i think that its the carrot element that Hino uses to make us flip the pages but she really worked hard to make that a delicious carrot and before we had the time to cherish it, she took that away...! And we all understand the purpose of that.

n the end it's all very unpredictable but both sides should have equal hope since her inner feelings are still unknown.

Here is a point of disagreement, why are they unknown? should they be unknown? I think that Yuuki knows very well what she feels about them, at least at the current moment, its up to our readers to see it more clearly that she states her feelings when they exist. Doesn't she?

I can't wait until the next chapter so we can see what Yuuki finally does to "stop kaname" like she's been saying for the past few chapters....

Yes me also can't wait, even though I am sure that all romance shall be suppressed to action (again!), but you never know.

I'm not on here very often hehe, maybe i can try to?
But as a dual Shipper, I do feel the Romance in both Zeki and Yume.
Ahhh, With Yumi i feel a cute, fluffy, imagery. They remind me of those old black and white shows where the man comes home and the wife is all like: "Hooonnneeeyyy, you're hooommmee"
lol
With Zeki its really different.
Really sexy. haha
They're really a hot pair. But i don't see them as a "honey, i'm home" kind of couple but they are really raw and passionate which is why i really like them. My feelings for them being raw and passionate comes from all the biting of course. ^^ Kind of hard not to drool at all the positions lol. I do like Zeki interactions too. I mean sure anyone can say Zeki is friendship, but even as a dual shipper, i honestly see the passion that Zekis see. As a reader of Vampire Knight, i mean.
Slowly, i'm kinda getting suckered in into Zeki haha. I want to stay even, but Zero grabbing Yuuki wrist last chapter really did make me say "awww."
They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty. And i think Zeki is a Quality over Quantity couple where's Yume is a Quantity over Quality.[<- I think alot of what i'm saying has been said before haha] Yeah, Yumi tell each other they love each other, but there's not alot of quality. And i mean by not hitting the heart as much.. Zeki is has alot of Quality in their words but not enough Quanity....Zeki is really touching, but only one can hold on to those really quality moments.
Its sweet.

“You know how easily and suddenly these things happen, beginning in playful teasing and ending in something a little warmer than friendship. You squeeze the slender arm which is passed through yours, you venture to take the little gloved hand, you say good night at absurd length in the shadow of the door. It is innocent and very interesting, love trying his wings in a first little flutter.”
^_^

MorningStar wrote:I'm not on here very often hehe, maybe i can try to?
But as a dual Shipper, I do feel the Romance in both Zeki and Yume.
Ahhh, With Yumi i feel a cute, fluffy, imagery. They remind me of those old black and white shows where the man comes home and the wife is all like: "Hooonnneeeyyy, you're hooommmee"
lol
With Zeki its really different.
Really sexy. haha
They're really a hot pair. But i don't see them as a "honey, i'm home" kind of couple but they are really raw and passionate which is why i really like them. My feelings for them being raw and passionate comes from all the biting of course. ^^ Kind of hard not to drool at all the positions lol. I do like Zeki interactions too. I mean sure anyone can say Zeki is friendship, but even as a dual shipper, i honestly see the passion that Zekis see. As a reader of Vampire Knight, i mean.
Slowly, i'm kinda getting suckered in into Zeki haha. I want to stay even, but Zero grabbing Yuuki wrist last chapter really did make me say "awww."
They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty. And i think Zeki is a Quality over Quantity couple where's Yume is a Quantity over Quality.[<- I think alot of what i'm saying has been said before haha] Yeah, Yumi tell each other they love each other, but there's not alot of quality. And i mean by not hitting the heart as much.. Zeki is has alot of Quality in their words but not enough Quanity....Zeki is really touching, but only one can hold on to those really quality moments.
Its sweet.

“You know how easily and suddenly these things happen, beginning in playful teasing and ending in something a little warmer than friendship. You squeeze the slender arm which is passed through yours, you venture to take the little gloved hand, you say good night at absurd length in the shadow of the door. It is innocent and very interesting, love trying his wings in a first little flutter.”
^_^

Simply amazing :O You said my thoughts exactly only in a better, prettier way x3 Bolded a few parts that I can personally agree with 100 % You're right about Kaname and Yuuki... it seems more like an old timey like relationship at first...I mean Kaname is so old fashioned but of course that's expected him being an ancient purebloos lol... he doesn't say, "Yuuki, would you be my girlfriend?" he says "Yuuki...become my lover..." xD I laughed at that I was like whoah there.."lover" is a bit more involved...aren't you taking things a bit too fast there Kaname? xD Sorry, no one take offense i just love to joke about the things people say in VK lol Also they live in a very old mansion..that adds to the old-time feel lol But yes... I feel they are too perfect, well superficially, obviously there are still a few conflicts going on that they can't be together at the moment...and Yuuki has some things to be confused about that he has said or done. I also agree most of all with what you said -
"They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty."

I basically said the same thing but worded differently just earlier in my last post. So I was right, that is exactly how Zeki's feel... ^^ <3

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
See, and that is why I don't support Yume... It's boring. Too easy, too predictable the couple "meant to be" isn't interesting at all...it's cliche.

Sorry I had to laugh about this sentence, no because it is about Zeki or Yume but in general.
Let me explain myself:
Would you say that a pairing shouldn´t be together because they are like pince and princess...they match like a cliche...it was love on the first sight...would you say it is boring and with that not good...
Of course it may be different when you look at a story where are several possibilities, but in real life would you say to your friend who is in a relationship with someone that she should get together with her best friend because it is not a cliche and not boring...sorry I think it is a cruel and false way to think...loves searches its way, sometimes its like a cliche and sometimes something totally different

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:

MorningStar wrote:I'm not on here very often hehe, maybe i can try to?
But as a dual Shipper, I do feel the Romance in both Zeki and Yume.
Ahhh, With Yumi i feel a cute, fluffy, imagery. They remind me of those old black and white shows where the man comes home and the wife is all like: "Hooonnneeeyyy, you're hooommmee"
lol
With Zeki its really different.
Really sexy. haha
They're really a hot pair. But i don't see them as a "honey, i'm home" kind of couple but they are really raw and passionate which is why i really like them. My feelings for them being raw and passionate comes from all the biting of course. ^^ Kind of hard not to drool at all the positions lol. I do like Zeki interactions too. I mean sure anyone can say Zeki is friendship, but even as a dual shipper, i honestly see the passion that Zekis see. As a reader of Vampire Knight, i mean.
Slowly, i'm kinda getting suckered in into Zeki haha. I want to stay even, but Zero grabbing Yuuki wrist last chapter really did make me say "awww."
They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty. And i think Zeki is a Quality over Quantity couple where's Yume is a Quantity over Quality.[<- I think alot of what i'm saying has been said before haha] Yeah, Yumi tell each other they love each other, but there's not alot of quality. And i mean by not hitting the heart as much.. Zeki is has alot of Quality in their words but not enough Quanity....Zeki is really touching, but only one can hold on to those really quality moments.
Its sweet.

“You know how easily and suddenly these things happen, beginning in playful teasing and ending in something a little warmer than friendship. You squeeze the slender arm which is passed through yours, you venture to take the little gloved hand, you say good night at absurd length in the shadow of the door. It is innocent and very interesting, love trying his wings in a first little flutter.”
^_^

Simply amazing :O You said my thoughts exactly only in a better, prettier way x3 Bolded a few parts that I can personally agree with 100 % You're right about Kaname and Yuuki... it seems more like an old timey like relationship at first...I mean Kaname is so old fashioned but of course that's expected him being an ancient purebloos lol... he doesn't say, "Yuuki, would you be my girlfriend?" he says "Yuuki...become my lover..." xD I laughed at that I was like whoah there.."lover" is a bit more involved...aren't you taking things a bit too fast there Kaname? xD Sorry, no one take offense i just love to joke about the things people say in VK lol Also they live in a very old mansion..that adds to the old-time feel lol But yes... I feel they are too perfect, well superficially, obviously there are still a few conflicts going on that they can't be together at the moment...and Yuuki has some things to be confused about that he has said or done. I also agree most of all with what you said -
"They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty."

I basically said the same thing but worded differently just earlier in my last post. So I was right, that is exactly how Zeki's feel... ^^ <3

Honestly, I think Hino was tossing the word Lover to be more...romantic? But my idea of a lover is not just someone you love- but someone your having sexual relations with.....Girlfriend, Baby, Boo, Fiance- those will worked. But i don't know how a 16 year old girl will become a good lover. In Wiki it can be used as:

A person who loves
A sexual partner outside of a committed relationship
Yeah, i get why alot of people aren't really that into Yume because of a more traditional feel. Sometimes i do feel really touched at their moments, but other time it feels a bit forced...like in the Mansion. Unnecessary Angst kinda occurs there, that really bothers me.
"I DON'T DESERVE TO BE KISSED BY YOU."

Huh? When did Yume turns so masochistic/sadistic lol it just didn't flow very well. I think anyway...
I do like the way Zeki looks at each other..


That first one is my favorite.
Thank you for your kind response I was expecting something more sever lol

MorningStar wrote:

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:

MorningStar wrote:I'm not on here very often hehe, maybe i can try to?
But as a dual Shipper, I do feel the Romance in both Zeki and Yume.
Ahhh, With Yumi i feel a cute, fluffy, imagery. They remind me of those old black and white shows where the man comes home and the wife is all like: "Hooonnneeeyyy, you're hooommmee"
lol
With Zeki its really different.
Really sexy. haha
They're really a hot pair. But i don't see them as a "honey, i'm home" kind of couple but they are really raw and passionate which is why i really like them. My feelings for them being raw and passionate comes from all the biting of course. ^^ Kind of hard not to drool at all the positions lol. I do like Zeki interactions too. I mean sure anyone can say Zeki is friendship, but even as a dual shipper, i honestly see the passion that Zekis see. As a reader of Vampire Knight, i mean.
Slowly, i'm kinda getting suckered in into Zeki haha. I want to stay even, but Zero grabbing Yuuki wrist last chapter really did make me say "awww."
They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty. And i think Zeki is a Quality over Quantity couple where's Yume is a Quantity over Quality.[<- I think alot of what i'm saying has been said before haha] Yeah, Yumi tell each other they love each other, but there's not alot of quality. And i mean by not hitting the heart as much.. Zeki is has alot of Quality in their words but not enough Quanity....Zeki is really touching, but only one can hold on to those really quality moments.
Its sweet.

“You know how easily and suddenly these things happen, beginning in playful teasing and ending in something a little warmer than friendship. You squeeze the slender arm which is passed through yours, you venture to take the little gloved hand, you say good night at absurd length in the shadow of the door. It is innocent and very interesting, love trying his wings in a first little flutter.”
^_^

Simply amazing :O You said my thoughts exactly only in a better, prettier way x3 Bolded a few parts that I can personally agree with 100 % You're right about Kaname and Yuuki... it seems more like an old timey like relationship at first...I mean Kaname is so old fashioned but of course that's expected him being an ancient purebloos lol... he doesn't say, "Yuuki, would you be my girlfriend?" he says "Yuuki...become my lover..." xD I laughed at that I was like whoah there.."lover" is a bit more involved...aren't you taking things a bit too fast there Kaname? xD Sorry, no one take offense i just love to joke about the things people say in VK lol Also they live in a very old mansion..that adds to the old-time feel lol But yes... I feel they are too perfect, well superficially, obviously there are still a few conflicts going on that they can't be together at the moment...and Yuuki has some things to be confused about that he has said or done. I also agree most of all with what you said -
"They are really fun to watch....I think its because the fact they have unresolved feelings and so much tension...the way the end up looking at each other. Because Zeki is a more subtle couple- they don't have alot of love declaration, which can hinder the relationship, but the small things become really pretty."

I basically said the same thing but worded differently just earlier in my last post. So I was right, that is exactly how Zeki's feel... ^^ <3

Honestly, I think Hino was tossing the word Lover to be more...romantic? But my idea of a lover is not just someone you love- but someone your having sexual relations with.....Girlfriend, Baby, Boo, Fiance- those will worked. But i don't know how a 16 year old girl will become a good lover. In Wiki it can be used as:

A person who loves
A sexual partner outside of a committed relationship
Yeah, i get why alot of people aren't really that into Yume because of a more traditional feel. Sometimes i do feel really touched at their moments, but other time it feels a bit forced...like in the Mansion. Unnecessary Angst kinda occurs there, that really bothers me.
"I DON'T DESERVE TO BE KISSED BY YOU."

Huh? When did Yume turns so masochistic/sadistic lol it just didn't flow very well. I think anyway...
I do like the way Zeki looks at each other..


That first one is my favorite.
Thank you for your kind response I was expecting something more sever lol

You're right, it seems nowadays everything is a rip-off from the classics..that's why the "classic style" is no longer interesting...you have to spice things up and make it new and interesting Yea, I know about the whole Yuuki saying she doesn't deserve Kaname..what the heck? They can't just be happy with their perfectness, they must remain depressed and cause new drama?? o.O Kaname told Yuuki all the things about his past for example and expected her to hate him.... why would he want to do that if he struggled for 10 years to be with her? xD Ooh you're right, the zeki stares are just too sexy ;3

"Thank you for your kind response I was expecting something more sever lol"

As did I on that first post...but I guess we both saved each other before any nay-sayer could get to us eh? ^^

Yume?...possibly. i've always loved Zero and yet..something tells me Yuuki isn't right for him. I hate to say this but Kaname has always stood by her despite her being attached to Zero.

Why ZeKi Is Better Than YuMe IN MY OPINION ARGUMENT

I believe that ZeKi has ALOT more chemistry than YuMe, even though it may not be romantic. Here are some of my arguments and reasons why Zero is better for Yuki and why ZeKi is likely to be endgame...

1. Yuki's Involvement With Zero..

Yuki was most the time concerned and worried about Zero's well being and his lust for blood.

Words and thoughts from Yuki about Zero...
"I will be his ally." "The Headmaster said theres nothing to worry about, but that man said he'd kill Zero...Zero can't tolerate blood tablets, so his body will continue to lust for blood...And his mind is being eaten away..." "I cant...do anything either...Zero..." "Yuki...Its alright..." His words echo in my head... "It's alright..." From Volume 2 Official Book

"I wonder when I started to have fewer of those nights..." (Yukis Nightmares) "It was when Zero came to live with us...Zeros suffering made me feel like I had to do something, that I shouldn't focus on myself anymore...I was so desperate to help..." "It's not fair..His wounds run so deep...But I..." "I haven't been able to protect him...I've only hurt him instead..." Volume 6 Official Book

At the very least I didn't want Kaname to be ashamed of me...That was at the very heart of my behavior...I didn't realize how deeply rooted it was inside of me...Then what about that time? "I'm sorry.." We'll do the most forbidden act of all..Even if he hated me or shunned me...I wanted to save his life...I didn't want him to die. Then...What about that time? I've hurt Zero many times...This must be my punishment. (Yuki thinks her turning into a vampire must be her punishment for hurting Zero) Volume 8 Official Book

2. Not Wanting To Be His Enemy
Even after saying she DID want to be his enemy, she CLEARY stated that she does not. "Zero...Are you really all right? I don't want to be your enemy! Was this the only way? I'm Sorry...I'm sorry I'm a vampire..." Volume 10 Official Book

Resolutions quietly pile up...Concealing my crying heart. (So Kaname is the resolution for her that conceals her crying heart IMO) And even at the Kuran Mansion with Kaname, she was STILL thinking about Zero. "I wonder...What your thinking about right now..." Volume 11 Official Book

3. Understanding In One Another

For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is. They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other. Example of ZeKi understanding:



"Your thinking about those records that burned up in the society headquarters...." - Zero (Zero knew what she was thinking about and how she was feeling about it)

Even in these later chapters ZeKi STILL seems to understand one another Its amazing how ZeKi can communicate without words which is a level YuMe would never reach IMO.




Yuki is basically saying that its her fault and Zero is saying it's not <3...And Zero is saying for her not to cry for him... Awww And hopefully Yuki will get off her butt and stop Kaname like shes been saying for the last 10 chapters... XP

Well anyway, I hope you YuMes can understand my views for ZeKi and discover how beautiful ZeKi is... Thank you for taking the time to read this!

We understand about your view, but I have to strongly disagree with you. I'll give you a brief skinny on why Yume is much better than Zeki.


I personally agree that Kaname & Yuuki Kuran shows more chemistry than Zero Kiryuu and Yuuki Cross. One of the main reasons why is because Kaname & Yuuki were in love with each other from the very beginning (not to mention at the prologue of the series) way before Zero comes into the limelight.

1) Yuuki may have been concerned about Zero, but she doesn't see the gray-haired hunter as a lover. Evidently she treats him like a brother to her and as a member of Kaien Cross' family... especially the times when he's on the verge of becoming Level-E.

2) As much as Kaname's fiancee only wants to be Zero's ally, the hunter didn't give her much of a choice and become enemies.

3) "For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is. They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other." I beg to differ. Zero and Yuuki don't have a strong relationship and understanding each other. Furthermore, they have absolutely nothing in common. Yuuki is Kaname's equal and have the determination to fight for a peaceful society... while Zero only vows revenge and is now on Sara's side and share one thing in common-- to kill Yuuki's future husband.

4) Kaname & Yuuki have a very much stronger relationship while Zero and Yuuki's relationship is more of a family matter. Even if Kaname turns his back on Yuuki, her love for him remains the same and can never be altered no matter the odds that she is facing then and now. Now THAT'S what I call the power of love.

I agree with Sassa because firstly, when Yuki was a child she was too young to fully be able to understand the meaning of love, so when they promised each other to marry it was like a little kid promise really IMO...I believe they only started having a proper developed relationship when she was "Human", But even when Yuki admired Kaname from afar, ZeKi was the main focus in the first arc. (Like the forbidden act and her trying to delay Zero's falling to Level E) I believe ZeKi was always there ever since Yuki first met Zero. Also Yuki's nightmares disappeared after she met Zero, because she helped him with his own problems.

ZeKi developed more in the first arc, because how she always lived with Zero and went through challenges, struggles and most of all grew with him; The story focused on THEM most of the first arc. They both knew each other's good and bad sides, their strenghts and weaknesses. They both comforted and helped each other. They were the perfect setup for friends, realizing they're more than just friends, but they kept keeping it to themselves...

Yuki kept worrying about her feelings for Kaname, not realizing or understanding her intense feelings for Zero. Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's. They're both special cases: Yuuki was a vampire turned human, Zero was a human turned vampire. They both have the first created anti-vampire weapons, Bloody Rose and Artemis. They're the ones who grew together and fought battles, both emotionally and literally (they killed Rido together). They bring out the best in each other. They've developed and suppressed feelings throughout the entire story. Their bond is unbreakable, and they're relationship is more a forbidden love.

What about these new happenings though.
With Zero saying he will defend Sara and letting Sara drink his blood. I can't remember but has Zero drank Saras blood yet?

ZerosBloodyRose wrote:What about these new happenings though.
With Zero saying he will defend Sara and letting Sara drink his blood. I can't remember but has Zero drank Saras blood yet?

Zero is now on Sara's side . As result of him believing Sara telling him about Kaname's the responsable of his tragedy . Desiring revenge against Kaname . I did expect Zero defending Sara from Kaname next chapter . When Kaname will try to kill Sara .

No , Zero has not bitten Sara .

Zero letting Sara to drink from his blood is not exactly what I have in mind . Well if that happens , I will laugh for a month . But I don't think will happen .

Thanks for clearing that up Although Im still wondering if Sara will make Zero drink HER blood, if shes wanting him to be her weapon against Kaname. I think it was mentioned in another thread but some people are saying they believe Saras blood makes them fall 'in love' with her, which maybe true. Takumas always been loyal to Kaname and suddenly there on other sides? or who knows maybe he really does love her o.o but theres also the girls Sarah changed who seem to be infatuated with her...Who knows

SassyKnight wrote:Why ZeKi Is Better Than YuMe IN MY OPINION ARGUMENT

I believe that ZeKi has ALOT more chemistry than YuMe, even though it may not be romantic. Here are some of my arguments and reasons why Zero is better for Yuki and why ZeKi is likely to be endgame...

1. Yuki's Involvement With Zero..

Yuki was most the time concerned and worried about Zero's well being and his lust for blood.

Words and thoughts from Yuki about Zero...
"I will be his ally." "The Headmaster said theres nothing to worry about, but that man said he'd kill Zero...Zero can't tolerate blood tablets, so his body will continue to lust for blood...And his mind is being eaten away..." "I cant...do anything either...Zero..." "Yuki...Its alright..." His words echo in my head... "It's alright..." From Volume 2 Official Book

"I wonder when I started to have fewer of those nights..." (Yukis Nightmares) "It was when Zero came to live with us...Zeros suffering made me feel like I had to do something, that I shouldn't focus on myself anymore...I was so desperate to help..." "It's not fair..His wounds run so deep...But I..." "I haven't been able to protect him...I've only hurt him instead..." Volume 6 Official Book

At the very least I didn't want Kaname to be ashamed of me...That was at the very heart of my behavior...I didn't realize how deeply rooted it was inside of me...Then what about that time? "I'm sorry.." We'll do the most forbidden act of all..Even if he hated me or shunned me...I wanted to save his life...I didn't want him to die. Then...What about that time? I've hurt Zero many times...This must be my punishment. (Yuki thinks her turning into a vampire must be her punishment for hurting Zero) Volume 8 Official Book

2. Not Wanting To Be His Enemy
Even after saying she DID want to be his enemy, she CLEARY stated that she does not. "Zero...Are you really all right? I don't want to be your enemy! Was this the only way? I'm Sorry...I'm sorry I'm a vampire..." Volume 10 Official Book

Resolutions quietly pile up...Concealing my crying heart. (So Kaname is the resolution for her that conceals her crying heart IMO) And even at the Kuran Mansion with Kaname, she was STILL thinking about Zero. "I wonder...What your thinking about right now..." Volume 11 Official Book

3. Understanding In One Another

For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is. ( Shoujo-zo18: For vampires biting each other is a sign of love... it's equivalent to thinking of another man while kissing the one in front of you) They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other. Example of ZeKi understanding:



"Your thinking about those records that burned up in the society headquarters...." - Zero (Zero knew what she was thinking about and how she was feeling about it)

Even in these later chapters ZeKi STILL seems to understand one another Its amazing how ZeKi can communicate without words which is a level YuMe would never reach IMO.




Yuki is basically saying that its her fault and Zero is saying it's not <3...And Zero is saying for her not to cry for him... Awww And hopefully Yuki will get off her butt and stop Kaname like shes been saying for the last 10 chapters... XP

Well anyway, I hope you YuMes can understand my views for ZeKi and discover how beautiful ZeKi is... Thank you for taking the time to read this!

Yes, Yuuki may have had her crush on Kaname from afar, bumping into him now and then during her school years, but Zero was always with her...Zero was always the one she was concerned about. ( She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him. Zero was the one who was always by her side, and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.) She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..." But did she go to the extremes to help Kaname that she did to Zero? Did she offer..no...force herself on him to drink her blood and make him feel at ease, even if he couldn't bear the guilt? Which brings me to also to the point...Zero recently did the same to Yuuki...he forced her to drink his blood when he knew she needed it, because he cares about her... so tell me why does everyone keep giving Zero the bad rap for that situation, but when Yuuki did it back then, there was no problem? Oh yea...was it because "Kaname was letting him live only to protect Yuuki"? Typically if it's Kaname's will, then it's ok... according to some biased fans. I won't say who but they know who they are. The same people who say they understand your views and then turn around and deny the facts one presents.( such as your lovely pictures & quotes presenting important scenes between Zero & Yuuki.) That's a fan in denial my friend, wouldn't you agree? ^^

PurusBloodLamia wrote: Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

When you say yuuki calmed down when she drank zero's blood you meant her thirst was quenched? If you do you amuse me

First off all yuuki said her head calm down, not that she was sated, or that her thirst was quenched.
Also, after she drank zero's blood she said I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for.

And according to Never deffinitions

1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past, present, or future.
2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

yuuki never wished zero's blood in the past - if the situation was confused in chapter 51/52 - her confusions cleared up the moment she tasted zero's blood - she never wished his blood.

How can her thirst to be quenched by the blood of a man she NEVER wished for Doesn't a vampire in love want to drink so much from his/her mate to the point to devour her/him?

Until now yuuki has these kind of thoughts for kaname, and about Zero "I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for."

Why Yuuki thirst wasn't quenched by kaname I discussed in the past already - bored to repeat the same thing.

SassyKnight wrote:For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

I do not know at which panels you're reffering to. The panels who showed below has no connection with it. I would be pleased if you would show the specific panels.

Shoujo-zo18: For vampires biting each other is a sign of love

Really? It's normal for vampires in love to share their blood, and feels their feelings this way, but are others situations which have no connection with romantic love.

>>> a level E vampire having an unconsciouness girl into his arms. since she was in that predicament I can guess that level E drank some of her blood. Guess this is called 'love for food'.

>>> shiki's mother drank blood from her son's neck. does this mean she has/had romantic feelings for her son

>>> zero drank blood directly from kaname's neck. if we would follow your logic then zero has romantic feelings for kaname By the way, didn't their dislike is mutual? so what kind of love they shared

>>>Kaname drank ruka's blood. All of us knew she was a replacememt for yuuki. for 10 years kaname starved for yuuki's blood, his only one.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him.

Apparently you forgot yuuki's words after she woke up as pureblood:

"In all this time I was in love with my brother."

Yuuki would have left with kaname even if zero wouldn't have reject her, because kaname is the one she's in love with.
I don't see Zero's name in that sentence.

Also, before kaname leaving to kill the council she initiated a kiss, giving reassurance to kaname she would come back into his arms.

Zero was the one who was always by her side,

Really? if he was always on her side then why he didn't accept her pureblood nature, and why he didn't say "I don't want to be enemies with you." or "I won't kill you next time."

Zero was the one who rejected yuuki, and expressed his wish to be enemies, not yuuki.

But do not understand wrong, even if zero would have accepted yuuki immediately this doesn't mean she would have stayed with zero. the difference it would have made is that she wouldn't have been emotianaly wrecked.

and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

Yuuki left with the man she was in love with. it's normal to leave with the man you love, and not stay with another one you know you don't have romantic feelings for, and who by they way called you his enemy.

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Noticing kaname feels alone doesn't mean she's looking at him, observe him, and has some sort of understanding about kaname?
She looked into his eyes and noticed he feels alone - did kaname said something to yuuki about his loneliness?

But did she go to the extremes to help Kaname that she did to Zero?

Kaname wasn't helpless like Zero. Beside, kaname wasn't at risk to fall to level E - yuuki had no reason to flutter her neck in front of kaname.

But even if yuuki gave her blood to zero and said she won't regret, she still felt a pain in her chest. Also, according to Zero's words yuuki wanted her blood to be drank by kaname and not zero.

PS: the rest of your post, I would reply later - currently bored to type more.

I won’t go in details answering on the same old and worn out issues over and over again first of all cuz many of these supposedly issues have been answered from the manga itself so it is pointless and second cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

And since the manga itself it is apparently not enough I’ll use the author’s own words about Yume and Zeki from the art book>>

1. About Zeki:





2. About Yume (NOT REQUESTED):








I think my words are needless

Note though that the latest depiction with which Hino sensei WANTED to show that Kaname and Yuuki BELONG together was included AGAIN in the last volume 15 i.e. in a volume where Yume is physically separated … so I guess it is still valid. *cough*

But I’ll answer on this one cuz it seems like the new motto >>

Understanding In One Another

They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other

I’m fine with this. Then when Yuuki said >>

1. Yuuki to Zero: “I know what you want to say … “there is no point in this game of school.” …
Our viewpoints won’t match, ALWAYS as before …”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/10
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/11

>> was right and she was perfectly understanding Zero.

2. Yuuki’s thoughts: “Level end … Zero is falling to level E. He himself says that he is alright but the truth is … Or is it … “I wanted only your blood” … that’s not it … that was in the past … Zero must have detached himself from those feelings … so that’s not it.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/14
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/15

>> so according to Yuuki’s very well understanding about Zero … Zero is falling to Level END and he has no romantic feelings for her.

And bottom line … how she failed so miserably to understand Zero’s feelings for her (as many fans still believe) since they can read each others eyes??? OR she knew about his feelings and still rejected him?

***********************

@Aya-chan well said!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:I believe they only started having a proper developed relationship when she was "Human", But even when Yuki admired Kaname from afar, ZeKi was the main focus in the first arc. (Like the forbidden act and her trying to delay Zero's falling to Level E) I believe ZeKi was always there ever since Yuki first met Zero.

With when yuuki was a child you do have a point, as at a young age she wouldn't have fully understood, but it doesnt mean that she didnt care about him deely back then. With zeki being the main focus i have to disagree, personally i found both pairs had focus for different reasons and different situations. I found romantically Yume had the focus, Zeki had the focus in the terms of allies and a friendship that was pretty close later leading to the question on Yuuki's feelings over this closeness (though yuuki is yet to confirm her feelings).

ZeKi developed more in the first arc, because how she always lived with Zero and went through challenges, struggles and most of all grew with him; The story focused on THEM most of the first arc. They both knew each other's good and bad sides, their strenghts and weaknesses. They both comforted and helped each other. They were the perfect setup for friends, realizing they're more than just friends, but they kept keeping it to themselves...

Yes zeki were very supportive of each other always have been and still are being very supportive now towards each other. But yume is supportive too, not in the way zeki is as the situationa dn relationship is different.

Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

This is something i wanted to pick up on. If we think about what yuuki said a part(or chunk) of her heart was attached to zero. Yuuki had already drank from kaname for a year hence the part of her heart he filled was satisfied, zero's part was not. After yuuki had drank from zero all her heart was filled so i think it was obvious she would have some satisfaction. So looking at it from this its both guys who gave her full satisfaction in that her thirst died down. But then yuuki’s words after she drank from zero I found very telling. It seemed almost like a realisation to me.

But there is also the argument stating that a vampire craves, lusts after their loved ones blood all the time. It’s one I agree with a lot due to the facts and other vampires we have seen in the manga. Aya-chan has just explained this well above, so best to refer to her post.

ZerosBloodyRose wrote:What about these new happenings though.
With Zero saying he will defend Sara and letting Sara drink his blood. I can't remember but has Zero drank Saras blood yet?

With zero saying he will defend sara and gives the impression he is on sara's side, though the reasons to his actions are yet to be revealed. It probably has roots from what sara told zero added to his own dislike of Kaname previously.

There is a case too for zero maybe protecting yuuki in saying he won’t let her go to harm sara. Like keeping her away from the bad person really. It’s hard to say but i dont think zero would join forces with a pureblood without from his perspective a solid reason. I truly hope it isnt just out of his dislike for kaname as i won’t be pleased if i am honest.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Yes, Yuuki may have had her crush on Kaname from afar, bumping into him now and then during her school years, but Zero was always with her...Zero was always the one she was concerned about. ( She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him. Zero was the one who was always by her side, and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

This is where I majorly differ. Yuuki didn’t have a “crush” on Kaname she was/is in love with him. Yuuki’s words to Kaname when he changed her “I’ve been in love with my brother this whole time.” Not crush, not like, LOVE.

Yes Zero was by her side a lot which is understandable they lived together and had a strong bond. Kaname couldn’t be as near to Yuuki for her own protection. One the council may get a tad suspicious, two for him it would be far too tempting being so near her. Yuuki was also concerned about Kaname too. Like you said in your post with Yuuki’s own words

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Why notice or mention he is lonely if you don’t care or are concerned about the other person?

You seem to be putting a lot on Kaname being the one to sort of “force” Yuuki to be with him, that’s the impression I get from what you said above. This isn’t the case though. Yuuki made a choice herself to be with him, I highly doubt if she had said she didn’t want to go he would have forced her as he can’t really deny her anything. We saw this before the fight with Rido. Yuuki wanted to stay and fight and she stood up to kaname saying she would stay or she would never forgive him. Kaname let her have her way. Also remember Yuuki’s words in the Kuran mansion when Hanabusa was willing to get her letter to Yori. Yuuki stated she didn’t want to endanger the place where her and kaname stayed. She wanted it to stay safe for both of their sakes. This shows one yuuki’s concern and her caring for Kaname.

Which brings me to also to the point...Zero recently did the same to Yuuki...he forced her to drink his blood when he knew she needed it, because he cares about her... so tell me why does everyone keep giving Zero the bad rap for that situation, but when Yuuki did it back then, there was no problem? Oh yea...was it because "Kaname was letting him live only to protect Yuuki"?

Personally it didn’t bother me about Zero forcing Yuuki to drink. She needed it. It wouldn’t be the way I would go around doing it but its zero’s way and he had good intentions at heart so I don’t feel he can be condemned here.

Typically if it's Kaname's will, then it's ok... according to some biased fans.

Erm…Kaname aint an angel. No-one in this manga is, all have done something we could point out as moral wrong, or just wrong in our own view of the world and behaviour.

I won't say who but they know who they are. The same people who say they understand your views and then turn around and deny the facts one presents.( such as your lovely pictures & quotes presenting important scenes between Zero & Yuuki.) That's a fan in denial my friend, wouldn't you agree? ^^

Even if someone can see your point of view doesn’t mean they will agree with it. I can see where some people have got their views/ideas/interpretations from but I don’t always agree.

Solid facts shouldn’t be denied but with Zeki all we know is there is a strong bond. Yuuki is yet to define how she truly feels about Zero. Until that time its more our views on how we see or interpret what is said. Its like with Yume I know several people deny the fact it’s a mutual love regardless of evidence, love declarations etc. Some believe Yuuki has her feelings mixed with family love or pity. It’s a difference of views and opinions.

Shoujo-zo18 - I use this method because it's easier, but I have replied to things in bold. ^^

aya-chan wrote:

PurusBloodLamia wrote: Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

When you say yuuki calmed down when she drank zero's blood you meant her thirst was quenched? If you do you amuse me

First off all yuuki said her head calm down, not that she was sated, or that her thirst was quenched.
Also, after she drank zero's blood she said I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for.

And according to Never deffinitions

1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past, present, or future.
2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

yuuki never wished zero's blood in the past - if the situation was confused in chapter 51/52 - her confusions cleared up the moment she tasted zero's blood - she never wished his blood.

How can her thirst to be quenched by the blood of a man she NEVER wished for Doesn't a vampire in love want to drink so much from his/her mate to the point to devour her/him?

Until now yuuki has these kind of thoughts for kaname, and about Zero "I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for."

Shoujo-zo18 - If she NEVER wished for his blood, then obviously she changed her mind xD Not only did she accept Zero's offer.... but she refused the wrist that was offered to her... and LUNGED for his neck!!

Why Yuuki thirst wasn't quenched by kaname I discussed in the past already - bored to repeat the same thing.

SassyKnight wrote:For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

I do not know at which panels you're reffering to. The panels who showed below has no connection with it. I would be pleased if you would show the specific panels.

Shoujo-Zo18 - I couldn't find the scene but she may be refering to the fact that even though her thirst will be partially quenched by kaname... it can't be completely quenched "because even now, there's one chunk of my heart that's still attached to a link that I can't cut...one chunk of it is still attached to zero." A direct quote from yuuki. If you want proof, here. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-30/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
But the fact that Yuuki's thirst won't be thoroughly quenched by Kaname... she can't forget it, so the thought of the act of drinking of Kaname will remind her of that...

Shoujo-zo18: For vampires biting each other is a sign of love

Really? It's normal for vampires in love to share their blood, and feels their feelings this way, but are others situations which have no connection with romantic love.

>>> a level E vampire having an unconsciouness girl into his arms. since she was in that predicament I can guess that level E drank some of her blood. Guess this is called 'love for food'.

>>> shiki's mother drank blood from her son's neck. does this mean she has/had romantic feelings for her son

>>> zero drank blood directly from kaname's neck. if we would follow your logic then zero has romantic feelings for kaname By the way, didn't their dislike is mutual? so what kind of love they shared

>>>Kaname drank ruka's blood. All of us knew she was a replacememt for yuuki. for 10 years kaname starved for yuuki's blood, his only one.

Shoujo-zo18 - Ok, so I worded it wrong...excuse me. But I got the Idea from Kaname himself... " A vampire's thirst can only be quenched by the blood of their loved one." http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-29/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html So yes, drinking blood, or more specifically satisfying the thirst, has to do with love. Or do you deny the knowledge of your all-mighty Kaname? As for your Level E reference... I said vampires biting each other...not humans. And Kaname obviously knows his thirst won't be fully quenched by Ruka because the one who's blood he wanted was Yuuki's. But it "partially" quenched it... he only drank her blood to get rid of the urge to drink from Yuuki. But vampires need blood to survive... otherwise the Blood Tablets wouldn't have been invented as an alternative. So he quenched his vampiric urge for blood... but he can only be fully satisfied by Yuuki's blood. I didn't say it applies to all situations did I? I didn't say any time ever that a vampire bites a vampire it's a sign of love... I only said " vampires biting each other is a sign of love" going by the logic that their thirst can be quenched by the one they love... Kaname's logic, not mine. You're the one who applied it to every situation possible.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him.

Apparently you forgot yuuki's words after she woke up as pureblood:

"In all this time I was in love with my brother."

Shoujo-zo18 - Yes, but the fact remains that during her stay at the academy she was more often with Zero than with Kaname. She didn't make the firm decision to stay by his side until he asked her to. Even Yuuki says for those 10 years she could only admire him from afar http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-12/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html Ah... correct me if i'm wrong but they went to the same school right....? All that time...? Kaname was depriving HIMSELF of Yuuki...she was within reach the whole time; the fact that he says he went without her for ten years...means he does not accept her "human side" as the real Yuuki.

Yuuki would have left with kaname even if zero wouldn't have reject her, because kaname is the one she's in love with.
I don't see Zero's name in that sentence.

Shoujo-zo18 - I never said Yuuki wouldn't have gone with Kaname if Zero didn't "reject" her. Yes, Zero couldn't deal with the fact that she's a vampire... but obviously he's gotten over it or he wouldn't feel the need to hold her back from Kaname and embrace her, right? That's not what someone with hate and murderous intent does... So obviously that issue's in the past he has shown his feelings for Yuuki so I don't know why that even keeps being brought up... it's useless to talk about that now. Its a null and void argument.

Also, before kaname leaving to kill the council she initiated a kiss, giving reassurance to kaname she would come back into his arms.

Zero was the one who was always by her side,

Really? if he was always on her side then why he didn't accept her pureblood nature, and why he didn't say "I don't want to be enemies with you." or "I won't kill you next time."

Zero was the one who rejected yuuki, and expressed his wish to be enemies, not yuuki.

Shoujo-zo18 - You misunderstand... I wasn't speaking figuratively. I meant LITERALLY Zero was by her side, during most hours of the day and night while together at cross academy. This only changed when Kaname asked her to be his lover and started finally attempting to see her more often. If he truely cared for her human side then he could have done this earlier on... but he actually waited this long, until he knew that danger was close at hand and she would soon have to turn back into a vampire.

But do not understand wrong, even if zero would have accepted yuuki immediately this doesn't mean she would have stayed with zero. the difference it would have made is that she wouldn't have been emotianaly wrecked.

and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

Yuuki left with the man she was in love with. it's normal to leave with the man you love, and not stay with another one you know you don't have romantic feelings for, and who by they way called you his enemy.

Shoujo-zo18 - Yes, she went with him by her choice, but I didn't say anything aimed at Yuuki did I? You didn't even acknowledge that i said Kaname treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he fought for and deserved because it was his right of lineage. I say this because he mentions at one point that their father and mother ( not really his parents though...) were married, and they should be too because it is pureblood tradition.

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Noticing kaname feels alone doesn't mean she's looking at him, observe him, and has some sort of understanding about kaname?
She looked into his eyes and noticed he feels alone - did kaname said something to yuuki about his loneliness?

But did she go to the extremes to help Kaname that she did to Zero?

Kaname wasn't helpless like Zero. Beside, kaname wasn't at risk to fall to level E - yuuki had no reason to flutter her neck in front of kaname.

But even if yuuki gave her blood to zero and said she won't regret, she still felt a pain in her chest. Also, according to Zero's words yuuki wanted her blood to be drank by kaname and not zero.

Shoujo-zo18 - Are you implying that Zero was helpless? She could have let him deal with it on his own...he didn't WANT any help...he didn't want to hurt her. He actually supressed his vampire urges for 4 whole years instead of becoming a Level E... WITHOUT any help. That's pretty impressive. But she insisted on helping him, because she cares so much about his well-being... Now, if she thinks Kaname has a problem...why doesn't she confront him about it and be as forceful and willing to help as she is with Zero? You may be right that Kaname's problems aren't so great as he would need her help... but don't demean the fact that Yuuki is kind and caring and helped a friend in need when he didn't even as for it.
PS: the rest of your post, I would reply later - currently bored to type more.

Shoujo-zo18 - Please do, since it caught your interest so much as to use so many quotes from me. ^^

cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

this is true because Yuuki and Zero were never a couple, so how fans do know how they would be as a couple and they compare that with a true relationship? THey can't is wishful thinking on their part that Zeki as a relationship could work but its exactly the same thing like us saying that Zeki would not work.

A true comparison could be made only to the stage where Kaname and Yuuki were still a potential couple to be...

-still they earn to the points : more passion and open love declarations, obvious showing love interest for each other, tense, agony and mystery...

Zeki and Yuuki as a potential couple: they lack all the above features...that's why their relationship does not seem to drive to something higher than friendship.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
Shoujo-zo18 - Please do, since it caught your interest so much as to use so many quotes from me. ^^

I sense a note of sarcasm here...

Shoujo-zo18 - If she NEVER wished for his blood, then obviously she changed her mind xD Not only did she accept Zero's offer.... but she refused the wrist that was offered to her... and LUNGED for his neck!!

First of all she was coerced to accept his blood. Didn't zero said he would destroy her school game? Also, she was hungry and worried she won't be able to do her job as kuran.
Yuuki going to his neck instead of his wrist, it stays in her instincts as vampires. Vampires drink blood from the neck - the blood flows better there

I couldn't find the scene but she may be refering to the fact that even though her thirst will be partially quenched by kaname... it can't be completely quenched "because even now, there's one chunk of my heart that's still attached to a link that I can't cut...one chunk of it is still attached to zero." A direct quote from yuuki. If you want proof, here. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-30/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
But the fact that Yuuki's thirst won't be thoroughly quenched by Kaname... she can't forget it, so the thought of the act of drinking of Kaname will remind her of that...

Saw the link but I cannot see the connection between the panel you gave me, and the quote I quoted.

SassyKnight wrote:
For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

In that scene I don't see Yuuki being bitten by Kaname at all. Guess your eyes see something else.

Ok, so I worded it wrong...excuse me. But I got the Idea from Kaname himself... " A vampire's thirst can only be quenched by the blood of their loved one." http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-29/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html So yes, drinking blood, or more specifically satisfying the thirst, has to do with love. Or do you deny the knowledge of your all-mighty Kaname? As for your Level E reference... I said vampires biting each other...not humans. And Kaname obviously knows his thirst won't be fully quenched by Ruka because the one who's blood he wanted was Yuuki's. But it "partially" quenched it... he only drank her blood to get rid of the urge to drink from Yuuki. But vampires need blood to survive... otherwise the Blood Tablets wouldn't have been invented as an alternative. So he quenched his vampiric urge for blood... but he can only be fully satisfied by Yuuki's blood. I didn't say it applies to all situations did I? I didn't say any time ever that a vampire bites a vampire it's a sign of love... I only said " vampires biting each other is a sign of love" going by the logic that their thirst can be quenched by the one they love... Kaname's logic, not mine. You're the one who applied it to every situation possible.

We can exclude my example with the level E vampire, but my other three examples stands on.

First of all you said vampires biting each other is a sign of love", you did not say vampires in love biting each other is a sign of love.
since you said "Vampires" not adding limits to your statements, hence you generalized your statement - in short you said that all vampires who are biting each other is a sign of love.

In the future do not generalize your statements!

Also, kaname said "A vampire thirst" - to me it sounds like he generalized the statement - it applies to all vampires.

If he truely cared for her human side then he could have done this earlier on...

Kaname did care for her human side so much that he wanted to turn her into a human again if the situation require it.

but he actually waited this long, until he knew that danger was close at hand and she would soon have to turn back into a vampire.

The one who made the first step in breaking the spell was yuuki, not kaname. what kaname did was to easy her awakening. if he wouldn't have done that she would have been driven mad.

correct me if i'm wrong but they went to the same school right....? All that time...? Kaname was depriving HIMSELF of Yuuki...she was within reach the whole time; the fact that he says he went without her for ten years...means he does not accept her "human side" as the real Yuuki.

You don't want to know my first thought when I read 'that'.

Please do not compare kaname with zero. The one not accepting yuuki's other nature was zero - evidence showed by manga.

Kaname accept yuuki the way she is: human or vampire; a part of her heart still tied to zero or not; kaname loves the yuuki with a kind heart. for kaname yuuki is his only one, human or not.

He said "I love you more than anyone else in the entire world" to the human yuuki. if he wouldn't have accepted human yuuki he could have wait to say those words to the vampire yuuki - but he said them to the human yuuki.

You didn't even acknowledge that i said Kaname treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he fought for and deserved because it was his right of lineage. I say this because he mentions at one point that their father and mother ( not really his parents though...) were married, and they should be too because it is pureblood tradition.

A man being possesive with the woman he loves is normal - you would find this in all shoujo manga.
However, for kaname yuuki is not a trophy he won at poker game.
First of all kaname doesn't force yuuki in doing things - he don't have the intention of forcing her to marry him.

Chapter 36, volume 8: Kaname to Aidou and Akatsuki

She is the child who was born to become my wife. If Yuuki still wishes so...

Now, if she thinks Kaname has a problem...why doesn't she confront him about it and be as forceful and willing to help as she is with Zero?

Currently she doesn't have the time to go after kaname.

>>>she has a troublesome vampire in cross academy's grounds - sara. yuuki had a lot of troubles dealing with the chaos sara caused.

>>>when yuuki repeated her wish to go after kaname to stop him she was stopped by someone else. Recently when she said she would deal with sara and then she would go after kaname, yuuki was stopped by ZERO.

@Nina: totally agree with your post