Zeki or Yume?

First topic message reminder :

If you like Zero or Kaname then I guess you are either Zeki or Yume. Which one do you prefer to see and why?

PurusBloodLamia wrote: Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

When you say yuuki calmed down when she drank zero's blood you meant her thirst was quenched? If you do you amuse me

First off all yuuki said her head calm down, not that she was sated, or that her thirst was quenched.
Also, after she drank zero's blood she said I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for.

And according to Never deffinitions

1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past, present, or future.
2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

yuuki never wished zero's blood in the past - if the situation was confused in chapter 51/52 - her confusions cleared up the moment she tasted zero's blood - she never wished his blood.

How can her thirst to be quenched by the blood of a man she NEVER wished for Doesn't a vampire in love want to drink so much from his/her mate to the point to devour her/him?

Until now yuuki has these kind of thoughts for kaname, and about Zero "I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for."

Why Yuuki thirst wasn't quenched by kaname I discussed in the past already - bored to repeat the same thing.

SassyKnight wrote:For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

I do not know at which panels you're reffering to. The panels who showed below has no connection with it. I would be pleased if you would show the specific panels.

Shoujo-zo18: For vampires biting each other is a sign of love

Really? It's normal for vampires in love to share their blood, and feels their feelings this way, but are others situations which have no connection with romantic love.

>>> a level E vampire having an unconsciouness girl into his arms. since she was in that predicament I can guess that level E drank some of her blood. Guess this is called 'love for food'.

>>> shiki's mother drank blood from her son's neck. does this mean she has/had romantic feelings for her son

>>> zero drank blood directly from kaname's neck. if we would follow your logic then zero has romantic feelings for kaname By the way, didn't their dislike is mutual? so what kind of love they shared

>>>Kaname drank ruka's blood. All of us knew she was a replacememt for yuuki. for 10 years kaname starved for yuuki's blood, his only one.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him.

Apparently you forgot yuuki's words after she woke up as pureblood:

"In all this time I was in love with my brother."

Yuuki would have left with kaname even if zero wouldn't have reject her, because kaname is the one she's in love with.
I don't see Zero's name in that sentence.

Also, before kaname leaving to kill the council she initiated a kiss, giving reassurance to kaname she would come back into his arms.

Zero was the one who was always by her side,

Really? if he was always on her side then why he didn't accept her pureblood nature, and why he didn't say "I don't want to be enemies with you." or "I won't kill you next time."

Zero was the one who rejected yuuki, and expressed his wish to be enemies, not yuuki.

But do not understand wrong, even if zero would have accepted yuuki immediately this doesn't mean she would have stayed with zero. the difference it would have made is that she wouldn't have been emotianaly wrecked.

and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

Yuuki left with the man she was in love with. it's normal to leave with the man you love, and not stay with another one you know you don't have romantic feelings for, and who by they way called you his enemy.

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Noticing kaname feels alone doesn't mean she's looking at him, observe him, and has some sort of understanding about kaname?
She looked into his eyes and noticed he feels alone - did kaname said something to yuuki about his loneliness?

But did she go to the extremes to help Kaname that she did to Zero?

Kaname wasn't helpless like Zero. Beside, kaname wasn't at risk to fall to level E - yuuki had no reason to flutter her neck in front of kaname.

But even if yuuki gave her blood to zero and said she won't regret, she still felt a pain in her chest. Also, according to Zero's words yuuki wanted her blood to be drank by kaname and not zero.

PS: the rest of your post, I would reply later - currently bored to type more.

I won’t go in details answering on the same old and worn out issues over and over again first of all cuz many of these supposedly issues have been answered from the manga itself so it is pointless and second cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

And since the manga itself it is apparently not enough I’ll use the author’s own words about Yume and Zeki from the art book>>

1. About Zeki:





2. About Yume (NOT REQUESTED):








I think my words are needless

Note though that the latest depiction with which Hino sensei WANTED to show that Kaname and Yuuki BELONG together was included AGAIN in the last volume 15 i.e. in a volume where Yume is physically separated … so I guess it is still valid. *cough*

But I’ll answer on this one cuz it seems like the new motto >>

Understanding In One Another

They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other

I’m fine with this. Then when Yuuki said >>

1. Yuuki to Zero: “I know what you want to say … “there is no point in this game of school.” …
Our viewpoints won’t match, ALWAYS as before …”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/10
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/11

>> was right and she was perfectly understanding Zero.

2. Yuuki’s thoughts: “Level end … Zero is falling to level E. He himself says that he is alright but the truth is … Or is it … “I wanted only your blood” … that’s not it … that was in the past … Zero must have detached himself from those feelings … so that’s not it.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/14
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/15

>> so according to Yuuki’s very well understanding about Zero … Zero is falling to Level END and he has no romantic feelings for her.

And bottom line … how she failed so miserably to understand Zero’s feelings for her (as many fans still believe) since they can read each others eyes??? OR she knew about his feelings and still rejected him?

***********************

@Aya-chan well said!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:I believe they only started having a proper developed relationship when she was "Human", But even when Yuki admired Kaname from afar, ZeKi was the main focus in the first arc. (Like the forbidden act and her trying to delay Zero's falling to Level E) I believe ZeKi was always there ever since Yuki first met Zero.

With when yuuki was a child you do have a point, as at a young age she wouldn't have fully understood, but it doesnt mean that she didnt care about him deely back then. With zeki being the main focus i have to disagree, personally i found both pairs had focus for different reasons and different situations. I found romantically Yume had the focus, Zeki had the focus in the terms of allies and a friendship that was pretty close later leading to the question on Yuuki's feelings over this closeness (though yuuki is yet to confirm her feelings).

ZeKi developed more in the first arc, because how she always lived with Zero and went through challenges, struggles and most of all grew with him; The story focused on THEM most of the first arc. They both knew each other's good and bad sides, their strenghts and weaknesses. They both comforted and helped each other. They were the perfect setup for friends, realizing they're more than just friends, but they kept keeping it to themselves...

Yes zeki were very supportive of each other always have been and still are being very supportive now towards each other. But yume is supportive too, not in the way zeki is as the situationa dn relationship is different.

Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

This is something i wanted to pick up on. If we think about what yuuki said a part(or chunk) of her heart was attached to zero. Yuuki had already drank from kaname for a year hence the part of her heart he filled was satisfied, zero's part was not. After yuuki had drank from zero all her heart was filled so i think it was obvious she would have some satisfaction. So looking at it from this its both guys who gave her full satisfaction in that her thirst died down. But then yuuki’s words after she drank from zero I found very telling. It seemed almost like a realisation to me.

But there is also the argument stating that a vampire craves, lusts after their loved ones blood all the time. It’s one I agree with a lot due to the facts and other vampires we have seen in the manga. Aya-chan has just explained this well above, so best to refer to her post.

ZerosBloodyRose wrote:What about these new happenings though.
With Zero saying he will defend Sara and letting Sara drink his blood. I can't remember but has Zero drank Saras blood yet?

With zero saying he will defend sara and gives the impression he is on sara's side, though the reasons to his actions are yet to be revealed. It probably has roots from what sara told zero added to his own dislike of Kaname previously.

There is a case too for zero maybe protecting yuuki in saying he won’t let her go to harm sara. Like keeping her away from the bad person really. It’s hard to say but i dont think zero would join forces with a pureblood without from his perspective a solid reason. I truly hope it isnt just out of his dislike for kaname as i won’t be pleased if i am honest.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:Yes, Yuuki may have had her crush on Kaname from afar, bumping into him now and then during her school years, but Zero was always with her...Zero was always the one she was concerned about. ( She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him. Zero was the one who was always by her side, and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

This is where I majorly differ. Yuuki didn’t have a “crush” on Kaname she was/is in love with him. Yuuki’s words to Kaname when he changed her “I’ve been in love with my brother this whole time.” Not crush, not like, LOVE.

Yes Zero was by her side a lot which is understandable they lived together and had a strong bond. Kaname couldn’t be as near to Yuuki for her own protection. One the council may get a tad suspicious, two for him it would be far too tempting being so near her. Yuuki was also concerned about Kaname too. Like you said in your post with Yuuki’s own words

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Why notice or mention he is lonely if you don’t care or are concerned about the other person?

You seem to be putting a lot on Kaname being the one to sort of “force” Yuuki to be with him, that’s the impression I get from what you said above. This isn’t the case though. Yuuki made a choice herself to be with him, I highly doubt if she had said she didn’t want to go he would have forced her as he can’t really deny her anything. We saw this before the fight with Rido. Yuuki wanted to stay and fight and she stood up to kaname saying she would stay or she would never forgive him. Kaname let her have her way. Also remember Yuuki’s words in the Kuran mansion when Hanabusa was willing to get her letter to Yori. Yuuki stated she didn’t want to endanger the place where her and kaname stayed. She wanted it to stay safe for both of their sakes. This shows one yuuki’s concern and her caring for Kaname.

Which brings me to also to the point...Zero recently did the same to Yuuki...he forced her to drink his blood when he knew she needed it, because he cares about her... so tell me why does everyone keep giving Zero the bad rap for that situation, but when Yuuki did it back then, there was no problem? Oh yea...was it because "Kaname was letting him live only to protect Yuuki"?

Personally it didn’t bother me about Zero forcing Yuuki to drink. She needed it. It wouldn’t be the way I would go around doing it but its zero’s way and he had good intentions at heart so I don’t feel he can be condemned here.

Typically if it's Kaname's will, then it's ok... according to some biased fans.

Erm…Kaname aint an angel. No-one in this manga is, all have done something we could point out as moral wrong, or just wrong in our own view of the world and behaviour.

I won't say who but they know who they are. The same people who say they understand your views and then turn around and deny the facts one presents.( such as your lovely pictures & quotes presenting important scenes between Zero & Yuuki.) That's a fan in denial my friend, wouldn't you agree? ^^

Even if someone can see your point of view doesn’t mean they will agree with it. I can see where some people have got their views/ideas/interpretations from but I don’t always agree.

Solid facts shouldn’t be denied but with Zeki all we know is there is a strong bond. Yuuki is yet to define how she truly feels about Zero. Until that time its more our views on how we see or interpret what is said. Its like with Yume I know several people deny the fact it’s a mutual love regardless of evidence, love declarations etc. Some believe Yuuki has her feelings mixed with family love or pity. It’s a difference of views and opinions.

Shoujo-zo18 - I use this method because it's easier, but I have replied to things in bold. ^^

aya-chan wrote:

PurusBloodLamia wrote: Also, Yuki calmed down after she drank Zero's blood, which she always feels un-satisfied after drinking Kaname's.

When you say yuuki calmed down when she drank zero's blood you meant her thirst was quenched? If you do you amuse me

First off all yuuki said her head calm down, not that she was sated, or that her thirst was quenched.
Also, after she drank zero's blood she said I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for.

And according to Never deffinitions

1. Not ever; not at any time; at no time, whether past, present, or future.
2. In no degree; not in the least; not.

yuuki never wished zero's blood in the past - if the situation was confused in chapter 51/52 - her confusions cleared up the moment she tasted zero's blood - she never wished his blood.

How can her thirst to be quenched by the blood of a man she NEVER wished for Doesn't a vampire in love want to drink so much from his/her mate to the point to devour her/him?

Until now yuuki has these kind of thoughts for kaname, and about Zero "I drank the blood of a man I NEVER intented to wish for."

Shoujo-zo18 - If she NEVER wished for his blood, then obviously she changed her mind xD Not only did she accept Zero's offer.... but she refused the wrist that was offered to her... and LUNGED for his neck!!

Why Yuuki thirst wasn't quenched by kaname I discussed in the past already - bored to repeat the same thing.

SassyKnight wrote:For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

I do not know at which panels you're reffering to. The panels who showed below has no connection with it. I would be pleased if you would show the specific panels.

Shoujo-Zo18 - I couldn't find the scene but she may be refering to the fact that even though her thirst will be partially quenched by kaname... it can't be completely quenched "because even now, there's one chunk of my heart that's still attached to a link that I can't cut...one chunk of it is still attached to zero." A direct quote from yuuki. If you want proof, here. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-30/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
But the fact that Yuuki's thirst won't be thoroughly quenched by Kaname... she can't forget it, so the thought of the act of drinking of Kaname will remind her of that...

Shoujo-zo18: For vampires biting each other is a sign of love

Really? It's normal for vampires in love to share their blood, and feels their feelings this way, but are others situations which have no connection with romantic love.

>>> a level E vampire having an unconsciouness girl into his arms. since she was in that predicament I can guess that level E drank some of her blood. Guess this is called 'love for food'.

>>> shiki's mother drank blood from her son's neck. does this mean she has/had romantic feelings for her son

>>> zero drank blood directly from kaname's neck. if we would follow your logic then zero has romantic feelings for kaname By the way, didn't their dislike is mutual? so what kind of love they shared

>>>Kaname drank ruka's blood. All of us knew she was a replacememt for yuuki. for 10 years kaname starved for yuuki's blood, his only one.

Shoujo-zo18 - Ok, so I worded it wrong...excuse me. But I got the Idea from Kaname himself... " A vampire's thirst can only be quenched by the blood of their loved one." http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-29/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html So yes, drinking blood, or more specifically satisfying the thirst, has to do with love. Or do you deny the knowledge of your all-mighty Kaname? As for your Level E reference... I said vampires biting each other...not humans. And Kaname obviously knows his thirst won't be fully quenched by Ruka because the one who's blood he wanted was Yuuki's. But it "partially" quenched it... he only drank her blood to get rid of the urge to drink from Yuuki. But vampires need blood to survive... otherwise the Blood Tablets wouldn't have been invented as an alternative. So he quenched his vampiric urge for blood... but he can only be fully satisfied by Yuuki's blood. I didn't say it applies to all situations did I? I didn't say any time ever that a vampire bites a vampire it's a sign of love... I only said " vampires biting each other is a sign of love" going by the logic that their thirst can be quenched by the one they love... Kaname's logic, not mine. You're the one who applied it to every situation possible.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:She didn't choose to stay with Kaname until he started keeping her by his side,asking her to be his lover, turned her back into a pureblood and asked her to come live with him.

Apparently you forgot yuuki's words after she woke up as pureblood:

"In all this time I was in love with my brother."

Shoujo-zo18 - Yes, but the fact remains that during her stay at the academy she was more often with Zero than with Kaname. She didn't make the firm decision to stay by his side until he asked her to. Even Yuuki says for those 10 years she could only admire him from afar http://www.mangareader.net/104-58423-12/vampire-knight/chapter-66.html Ah... correct me if i'm wrong but they went to the same school right....? All that time...? Kaname was depriving HIMSELF of Yuuki...she was within reach the whole time; the fact that he says he went without her for ten years...means he does not accept her "human side" as the real Yuuki.

Yuuki would have left with kaname even if zero wouldn't have reject her, because kaname is the one she's in love with.
I don't see Zero's name in that sentence.

Shoujo-zo18 - I never said Yuuki wouldn't have gone with Kaname if Zero didn't "reject" her. Yes, Zero couldn't deal with the fact that she's a vampire... but obviously he's gotten over it or he wouldn't feel the need to hold her back from Kaname and embrace her, right? That's not what someone with hate and murderous intent does... So obviously that issue's in the past he has shown his feelings for Yuuki so I don't know why that even keeps being brought up... it's useless to talk about that now. Its a null and void argument.

Also, before kaname leaving to kill the council she initiated a kiss, giving reassurance to kaname she would come back into his arms.

Zero was the one who was always by her side,

Really? if he was always on her side then why he didn't accept her pureblood nature, and why he didn't say "I don't want to be enemies with you." or "I won't kill you next time."

Zero was the one who rejected yuuki, and expressed his wish to be enemies, not yuuki.

Shoujo-zo18 - You misunderstand... I wasn't speaking figuratively. I meant LITERALLY Zero was by her side, during most hours of the day and night while together at cross academy. This only changed when Kaname asked her to be his lover and started finally attempting to see her more often. If he truely cared for her human side then he could have done this earlier on... but he actually waited this long, until he knew that danger was close at hand and she would soon have to turn back into a vampire.

But do not understand wrong, even if zero would have accepted yuuki immediately this doesn't mean she would have stayed with zero. the difference it would have made is that she wouldn't have been emotianaly wrecked.

and Yuuki abandoned him to be with the man who always treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he had fought for "For ten years..." and deserved because it was his right of lineage.)

Yuuki left with the man she was in love with. it's normal to leave with the man you love, and not stay with another one you know you don't have romantic feelings for, and who by they way called you his enemy.

Shoujo-zo18 - Yes, she went with him by her choice, but I didn't say anything aimed at Yuuki did I? You didn't even acknowledge that i said Kaname treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he fought for and deserved because it was his right of lineage. I say this because he mentions at one point that their father and mother ( not really his parents though...) were married, and they should be too because it is pureblood tradition.

She mentioned once "I wonder why...Kaname has such a lonely look in his eyes..."

Noticing kaname feels alone doesn't mean she's looking at him, observe him, and has some sort of understanding about kaname?
She looked into his eyes and noticed he feels alone - did kaname said something to yuuki about his loneliness?

But did she go to the extremes to help Kaname that she did to Zero?

Kaname wasn't helpless like Zero. Beside, kaname wasn't at risk to fall to level E - yuuki had no reason to flutter her neck in front of kaname.

But even if yuuki gave her blood to zero and said she won't regret, she still felt a pain in her chest. Also, according to Zero's words yuuki wanted her blood to be drank by kaname and not zero.

Shoujo-zo18 - Are you implying that Zero was helpless? She could have let him deal with it on his own...he didn't WANT any help...he didn't want to hurt her. He actually supressed his vampire urges for 4 whole years instead of becoming a Level E... WITHOUT any help. That's pretty impressive. But she insisted on helping him, because she cares so much about his well-being... Now, if she thinks Kaname has a problem...why doesn't she confront him about it and be as forceful and willing to help as she is with Zero? You may be right that Kaname's problems aren't so great as he would need her help... but don't demean the fact that Yuuki is kind and caring and helped a friend in need when he didn't even as for it.
PS: the rest of your post, I would reply later - currently bored to type more.

Shoujo-zo18 - Please do, since it caught your interest so much as to use so many quotes from me. ^^

cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

this is true because Yuuki and Zero were never a couple, so how fans do know how they would be as a couple and they compare that with a true relationship? THey can't is wishful thinking on their part that Zeki as a relationship could work but its exactly the same thing like us saying that Zeki would not work.

A true comparison could be made only to the stage where Kaname and Yuuki were still a potential couple to be...

-still they earn to the points : more passion and open love declarations, obvious showing love interest for each other, tense, agony and mystery...

Zeki and Yuuki as a potential couple: they lack all the above features...that's why their relationship does not seem to drive to something higher than friendship.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
Shoujo-zo18 - Please do, since it caught your interest so much as to use so many quotes from me. ^^

I sense a note of sarcasm here...

Shoujo-zo18 - If she NEVER wished for his blood, then obviously she changed her mind xD Not only did she accept Zero's offer.... but she refused the wrist that was offered to her... and LUNGED for his neck!!

First of all she was coerced to accept his blood. Didn't zero said he would destroy her school game? Also, she was hungry and worried she won't be able to do her job as kuran.
Yuuki going to his neck instead of his wrist, it stays in her instincts as vampires. Vampires drink blood from the neck - the blood flows better there

I couldn't find the scene but she may be refering to the fact that even though her thirst will be partially quenched by kaname... it can't be completely quenched "because even now, there's one chunk of my heart that's still attached to a link that I can't cut...one chunk of it is still attached to zero." A direct quote from yuuki. If you want proof, here. http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-30/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html
But the fact that Yuuki's thirst won't be thoroughly quenched by Kaname... she can't forget it, so the thought of the act of drinking of Kaname will remind her of that...

Saw the link but I cannot see the connection between the panel you gave me, and the quote I quoted.

SassyKnight wrote:
For Yuki to think about Zero when being bitten by Kaname just proves how strong their relationship really is.

In that scene I don't see Yuuki being bitten by Kaname at all. Guess your eyes see something else.

Ok, so I worded it wrong...excuse me. But I got the Idea from Kaname himself... " A vampire's thirst can only be quenched by the blood of their loved one." http://www.mangareader.net/104-2179-29/vampire-knight/chapter-51.html So yes, drinking blood, or more specifically satisfying the thirst, has to do with love. Or do you deny the knowledge of your all-mighty Kaname? As for your Level E reference... I said vampires biting each other...not humans. And Kaname obviously knows his thirst won't be fully quenched by Ruka because the one who's blood he wanted was Yuuki's. But it "partially" quenched it... he only drank her blood to get rid of the urge to drink from Yuuki. But vampires need blood to survive... otherwise the Blood Tablets wouldn't have been invented as an alternative. So he quenched his vampiric urge for blood... but he can only be fully satisfied by Yuuki's blood. I didn't say it applies to all situations did I? I didn't say any time ever that a vampire bites a vampire it's a sign of love... I only said " vampires biting each other is a sign of love" going by the logic that their thirst can be quenched by the one they love... Kaname's logic, not mine. You're the one who applied it to every situation possible.

We can exclude my example with the level E vampire, but my other three examples stands on.

First of all you said vampires biting each other is a sign of love", you did not say vampires in love biting each other is a sign of love.
since you said "Vampires" not adding limits to your statements, hence you generalized your statement - in short you said that all vampires who are biting each other is a sign of love.

In the future do not generalize your statements!

Also, kaname said "A vampire thirst" - to me it sounds like he generalized the statement - it applies to all vampires.

If he truely cared for her human side then he could have done this earlier on...

Kaname did care for her human side so much that he wanted to turn her into a human again if the situation require it.

but he actually waited this long, until he knew that danger was close at hand and she would soon have to turn back into a vampire.

The one who made the first step in breaking the spell was yuuki, not kaname. what kaname did was to easy her awakening. if he wouldn't have done that she would have been driven mad.

correct me if i'm wrong but they went to the same school right....? All that time...? Kaname was depriving HIMSELF of Yuuki...she was within reach the whole time; the fact that he says he went without her for ten years...means he does not accept her "human side" as the real Yuuki.

You don't want to know my first thought when I read 'that'.

Please do not compare kaname with zero. The one not accepting yuuki's other nature was zero - evidence showed by manga.

Kaname accept yuuki the way she is: human or vampire; a part of her heart still tied to zero or not; kaname loves the yuuki with a kind heart. for kaname yuuki is his only one, human or not.

He said "I love you more than anyone else in the entire world" to the human yuuki. if he wouldn't have accepted human yuuki he could have wait to say those words to the vampire yuuki - but he said them to the human yuuki.

You didn't even acknowledge that i said Kaname treated her as a possession to be protected and won over. The prize he fought for and deserved because it was his right of lineage. I say this because he mentions at one point that their father and mother ( not really his parents though...) were married, and they should be too because it is pureblood tradition.

A man being possesive with the woman he loves is normal - you would find this in all shoujo manga.
However, for kaname yuuki is not a trophy he won at poker game.
First of all kaname doesn't force yuuki in doing things - he don't have the intention of forcing her to marry him.

Chapter 36, volume 8: Kaname to Aidou and Akatsuki

She is the child who was born to become my wife. If Yuuki still wishes so...

Now, if she thinks Kaname has a problem...why doesn't she confront him about it and be as forceful and willing to help as she is with Zero?

Currently she doesn't have the time to go after kaname.

>>>she has a troublesome vampire in cross academy's grounds - sara. yuuki had a lot of troubles dealing with the chaos sara caused.

>>>when yuuki repeated her wish to go after kaname to stop him she was stopped by someone else. Recently when she said she would deal with sara and then she would go after kaname, yuuki was stopped by ZERO.

@Nina: totally agree with your post

juliet wrote:

cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

this is true because Yuuki and Zero were never a couple, so how fans do know how they would be as a couple and they compare that with a true relationship? THey can't is wishful thinking on their part that Zeki as a relationship could work but its exactly the same thing like us saying that Zeki would not work.

A true comparison could be made only to the stage where Kaname and Yuuki were still a potential couple to be...

-still they earn to the points : more passion and open love declarations, obvious showing love interest for each other, tense, agony and mystery...

Zeki and Yuuki as a potential couple: they lack all the above features...that's why their relationship does not seem to drive to something higher than friendship.

No one ever said that Zeki is an official couple, are you saying we aren't allowed to support the pairing? That it shouldn't exist? There are numerous reasons to enjoy it, our views are grounded and have inspiration... There are reasons to consider the possibility of them becoming a pair, and believing they look good together. We didn't just come up with it out of thin air, now...an unbelieveable fan-pairing that wouldn't be as widely supported might be Yuuki and Aidou, or Kaname and Zero, anyone other than the main trio. All the main issues resolve around Kaname, Yuuki, and Zero, and Yuuki has close ties with both... This was obviously bound to create a love triangle. Hino wrote it that way on purpose... It's part of the reason the series is so popular if you can't tell - all the drama between the relationship of yuuki, kaname and zero.

"-still they earn to the points : more passion and open love declarations, obvious showing love interest for each other, tense, agony and mystery..."

- You don't call a kiss an open love declaration? Then I wonder what could be considered as one to you o.O Just because Yuuki didn't reciprocate the feelings at that time doesn't make it any less significant. It was proof that Zero loved her and wanted her to atleast know before she left him forever... which he truely thought would happen. " I believed somewhere in my heart that you would walk alongside Yuuki..." Meaning he had given up. No reason to believe that Yuuki would care about him at all after leaving him. But he is not aware of how she cried for him afterwards... saying "I don't want to be your enemy." he is not aware of her telling kaname " A part of my heart still belongs to zero..." and he's not aware that her thirst can't be fully quenched because of this. Zero had no intention of stealing her away...he gave up honorably and he gets criticized for it.

- Showing of love interest.... well Zero has wanted to kiss her once before but chickened out. Then later on, he did actually kiss her. We don't know Yuuki's feelings but she obviously cares enough about him to cry for him after learning about his tragic past from Kaname. ( even though it's not 100% true, Yuuki believed it, and she felt so emotionally distressed for Zero. She stopped him from attacking kaname because she didn't want him to go out of control and get hurt...) So we know she cares for him still, but no one can say for sure that they KNOW for a 100% fact that she isn't starting to fall for him as more than friends. You can't read Yuuki's mind can you? When you go without something for a long time, it only makes you want it more.... Yuuki might be missing Zero so much that she is starting to realize she's falling in love with him. You don't know and I don't know.

- Agony and mystery....? Wasn't that what the whole first arc was about? Zero was running away from Yuuki and acting strange....Yuuki found out it was because he was a vampire. (mystery solved) Yuuki got upset because she emotionally hurt zero by what she had said... "It was like a beast in human form...." Which is exactly what he felt like. Yuuki made Zero stay when he wanted to run away....she promised to be his ally. That was a very agonized/dramatic scene. Also Yuuki saying she will save Zero by letting him drink her blood. And then Yuuki was getting upset over the "mystery" of her past...Zero went with her to help her find things out. He even came to ask her if she was still worried about it later that night... The only difference between Yume & Zeki is that Zeki went through the agony & mystery together And Kaname is not going to help Yuuki solve the mystery this time because HE is the one creating it...

nina wrote:I won’t go in details answering on the same old and worn out issues over and over again first of all cuz many of these supposedly issues have been answered from the manga itself so it is pointless and second cuz I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

And since the manga itself it is apparently not enough I’ll use the author’s own words about Yume and Zeki from the art book>>

1. About Zeki:





2. About Yume (NOT REQUESTED):








I think my words are needless

Note though that the latest depiction with which Hino sensei WANTED to show that Kaname and Yuuki BELONG together was included AGAIN in the last volume 15 i.e. in a volume where Yume is physically separated … so I guess it is still valid. *cough*

But I’ll answer on this one cuz it seems like the new motto >>

Understanding In One Another

They UNDERSTAND one another so much that they can read each others thoughts...ZeKi may not be a romantic relationship, but it is a strong relationship in which both of them understand each other

I’m fine with this. Then when Yuuki said >>

1. Yuuki to Zero: “I know what you want to say … “there is no point in this game of school.” …
Our viewpoints won’t match, ALWAYS as before …”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/10
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/11

>> was right and she was perfectly understanding Zero.

2. Yuuki’s thoughts: “Level end … Zero is falling to level E. He himself says that he is alright but the truth is … Or is it … “I wanted only your blood” … that’s not it … that was in the past … Zero must have detached himself from those feelings … so that’s not it.”
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/14
http://www.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/71/15

>> so according to Yuuki’s very well understanding about Zero … Zero is falling to Level END and he has no romantic feelings for her.

And bottom line … how she failed so miserably to understand Zero’s feelings for her (as many fans still believe) since they can read each others eyes??? OR she knew about his feelings and still rejected him?

***********************

@Aya-chan well said!

Truer words have never spoken, Nina. Excellent deductions on showing the official pix (according to Hino-san herself) between Zero and Yuuki (Cross) and Kaname & Yuuki (Kuran). We all know that Yuuki realizes that Zero is falling to Level END. The only cure for Zero to permanently stop the falling into the end level for good is to drink Hio's blood.

And to Aya-chan, Juliet and Blood... six (2 each) thumbs up for all of you. I'm completely speechless as of right now, except the only forbidden love that we all know is evidently Kaname AND Yuuki (when she was turned human more than a decade ago). Let's all hope that the true love conquers all when she shines the light on Kaname's darkest hour.

I suppose if it's what the author wants then no one else's opinion matters right? As if Hino is that selfish, she would be shocked right now, I'm sure She always attributes her success to the fans, without them, her stories would mean nothing... and she realizes that Zero and Kaname are her most popular characters ( even IF she prefers Kaname - She does enjoy that he bares a resmblence to another character of hers from another story...) She might like Kaname & Yuuki together but she likes Zero too...she loves all her characters. Therefore I still say its up to her how it all ends, but I don't think she'd actually root for a specific pairing all-out openly to the fans, because she too would like to see how it all ends, and won't give away any spoilers. Any good story-writer will use twists and unexpected events to capture the readers' attention, so don't be so sure it will end how you want just because she put a couple pretty comments on her artwork, that makes no sense at all. I have never once read in her sidebars in the manga OR her interviews that she favors Kaname & Yuuki. Go find me ONE excerpt by her that says that....

No one ever said that Zeki is an official couple, are you saying we aren't allowed to support the pairing? That it shouldn't exist?

No, we did not say that...please read again...

what Nina said and what i also supported...

nina:

I can’t find any meaning to compare a CANON pair like Yume with a FANON supposedly pair like Zeki.

How someone can compare something real and with substance with something nonexistent?

me:

THey can't is wishful thinking on their part that Zeki as a relationship could work but its exactly the same thing like us saying that Zeki would not work.

So no one said that fans can not support pairings to be or pairings in general but you can not judge them as a pairing realistically speaking or create arguments just as they were a canon pairing, simply because they are not.

example: saying that Zeki would be so great together whereas Yume is boring (I am just bringing a very common argument here) is an opinion but more than this where is the reality in this opinion since there is no ZEki as a pairing where you can judge how they would be inside of a relationship? we are talking about thin air there, don't we? (all that I know this part of the sentence has the same significance as me supporting the opposite).

nobody says that you can not support or state your opinion but we also state to that opinion our thoughts; that its a total hypothetical opinion, in reality zeki can not be compared to yume because Zeki and Yuuki never passed to the next stage in order for anyone to form an opinion about them as a couple. That's a fact, we don't say that to argue over it, because there is nothing about it to argue...they are not just in the same level to be compared...

now about the rest parts of your post:

You don't call a kiss an open love declaration? Then I wonder what could be considered as one to you o.O Just because Yuuki didn't reciprocate the feelings at that time doesn't make it any less significant.

Yes you are calling the first arc (how many volumes?) "that time"...when did she do it and i missed it?


When people are in love emotions flow, they need to be expressed...where is that expression? you can not just make a character choosing a person without first showing the course of feelings that led him/her there....there is not such fundamental basis in Yuuki for Zero since all of her thoughts revolve around Kaname thus her feelings belong to another man...who also aches for her and silently suffers...

so do you now see how a Yume-to-be shadows a-Zeki-to be with the gravity that the author puts on Yuuki's and kaname's mutual feelings?
Don't they earn at this point? Of course they do because the love of the two is more powerful, grounded and well-expressed than the anticipation-expectation of the one.

But he is not aware of how she cried for him afterwards... saying "I don't want to be your enemy." he is not aware of her telling kaname " A part of my heart still belongs to zero..." and he's not aware that her thirst can't be fully quenched because of this. Zero had no intention of stealing her away...he gave up honorably and he gets criticized for it.

" A part of her heart" where she missed Zero as a friend and Yuuki was not taking blood through her fangs. An ambiguous declaration hidden again behind a bunch of excuses...that deteriorates the intense of any feelings, any originality or clarity of thought, sorry that's Hino's very known method in order to throw the LT in the script just to light up sparklers that she extinguishes again some pages later...

So before Zero gets aware of these lines, make sure that he is filled with the continuation and the new updates of confessions that follow ;

"If you do devour what you desire you'll be driven insane" "But the vampire inside me does not care. This desire is so pure, it can't be hidden".

Who again gains the impressions of "love" and "intense" and "clarity?"

Because here there is no ambiguity, its a raw feeling that comes chapters later to erase and in my opinion even to eliminate any gravity that the lines that you used had.

Zero had no intention of stealing her away...he gave up honorably and he gets criticized for it.

Because even Zero recognized the intensity of these feelings and the mutual love of the couple, he was the one drinking Yuuki's blood during the first arc and he even considered himself a lost cause.

Yuuki might be missing Zero so much that she is starting to realize she's falling in love with him. You don't know and I don't know.

Yes that's a prophesy and a "wishful thinking", therefore you are actually saying what I am saying and you just turn back at making circles resulting at the conclusion that we made and you seem to disagree at the beginning but at the same time you are using it as your defense (how paradox that is!)

you can not express an opinion about the future, thus again I shall remind you that this debate started from the arguments that comparing yume to zeki is not possible since zeki is not a couple. So as you say the future only can tell...that's exactly our point; how do we know what kind of couple zeki would be? more healthy, open, vibrant? we can't know therefore we can not compare. That's why i also suggested the comparison to be made in the "coming together" stage where we see a potential Yume and potential Zeki and like i said Yume wins. Now you are throwing me an argument of the future to defend what? an already taken path with an hypothetical path? not possible.

if we go jumping from past (events) to future (assumptions) and we try to create arguments, how realistic or even fruitful discussion is that? its leading nowhere..better to find a common ground and leave statements about the future be so.

Agony and mystery....? Wasn't that what the whole first arc was about? Zero was running away from Yuuki and acting strange....Yuuki found out it was because he was a vampire. (mystery solved)

The only difference between Yume & Zeki is that Zeki went through the agony & mystery together And Kaname is not going to help Yuuki solve the mystery this time because HE is the one creating it...

A mystery that was solved in the first four chapters...as for your statement about Kaname as i remember Zero's condition had been kept as a secret for four years (Yuuki and Kaname are only one year together and Kaname's secret is not dangerous to Yuuki's life as it was living with a level-e). Neither Zero helped Yuuki to solve any mystery, it actually came out on his own since he had lost control of himself.

Furthermore Kaname is a mystery on his own...and his overall protection and interest about Yuuki had always been a mystery towards her> so again the script landed in him loving her, in her hiding her feelings of love because he was a different kind> revolving around love altogether.

And the same route it follows now since we know that Kaname has stated that the "the objective had always been the same only the path changed", when Kaien had reminded him that in the past he had wanted to sacrifice himself for Yuuki's welfare and that later on he thought they would be walking on the same path. So again the mystery and the agony is motivated by love> that's the motive used (as in the first arc) and its mutual. Again all these elements (and the above) are combined together to picture a loving couple passing hard times, and fighting each one with his own weapons.

So where does Zeki come in with such an intensity and motivation? i see their struggle to survive as friends but as a couple-to-be where are these elements? Currently I do not see them in script.

If Yume dominates and Zeki isn't even recognized as an actual couple, then what is the point of even creating this topic? To prove your point and dominate over Zekis? My opInion won't change because most of what all of you are saying is largely opinion mixed with fact. You believe strongly that only Yume can exist, and that Zeki has no grounds at all for even considering being a couple.... you don't see things the way we do, and I really don't feel like explaining it for the thousandth time because no one ever listens, they just try to disprove it and shoot it down. I will wait and see what happens. And I will be ready to laugh in your faces so hard if Zeki wins and all of your novel posts were meaningless. Having said that, I will not be commenting on anything more concerning this immature Zeki vs Yume battle until the next chapter is released and there is more to work with...I'd like to see the outcome of things, but I have never once denied any one's pairing entirely, that is just very selfish and immature.... I will say it again, as i always do.... heck i'll even make it so you can read it.

I DO NOT KNOW, OR BELIEVE 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT ZERO WILL END UP WITH YUUKI, NOR THAT KANAME WILL END UP WITH YUUKI. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BOTH ARE LEGITIMATE AND WORTH DEBATING OVER, HOWEVER I WILL NEVER DENY THAT ONE EXISTS AND HAS A CHANCE. MAY THE BEST MAN WIN, I IN PARTICULAR JUST HAPPEN TO BE ROOTING FOR ZEKI.

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:If Yume dominates and Zeki isn't even recognized as an actual couple, then what is the point of even creating this topic? To prove your point and dominate over Zekis? My opInion won't change because most of what all of you are saying is largely opinion mixed with fact. You believe strongly that only Yume can exist, and that Zeki has no grounds at all for even considering being a couple.... you don't see things the way we do, and I really don't feel like explaining it for the thousandth time because no one ever listens, they just try to disprove it and shoot it down. I will wait and see what happens. And I will be ready to laugh in your faces so hard if Zeki wins and all of your novel posts were meaningless. Having said that, I will not be commenting on anything more concerning this immature Zeki vs Yume battle until the next chapter is released and there is more to work with...I'd like to see the outcome of things, but I have never once denied any one's pairing entirely, that is just very selfish and immature.... I will say it again, as i always do.... heck i'll even make it so you can read it.

I DO NOT KNOW, OR BELIEVE 100% WITHOUT A DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT ZERO WILL END UP WITH YUUKI, NOR THAT KANAME WILL END UP WITH YUUKI. I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BOTH ARE LEGITIMATE AND WORTH DEBATING OVER, HOWEVER I WILL NEVER DENY THAT ONE EXISTS AND HAS A CHANCE. MAY THE BEST MAN WIN, I IN PARTICULAR JUST HAPPEN TO BE ROOTING FOR ZEKI.

Ι am sorry but what are you shouting about here? to the fact that we said that Zeki does not exist as a couple? is this so hard to accept it? if it did why they do not have a relationship? this is a reality. I am really doubting if you are reading what we post and what we mean. Say all you want and write it with even more capitals to make your point even more obvious, but first answer to what we write and not to what you think that we write. I am trying to state that as gentle and polite as it can be...

obviously your post refers to something that is not stated here...

Shoujo-Zo18 wrote: I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT BOTH ARE LEGITIMATE

Well that’s the point … some of us DO NOT acknowledge that both pairings are legitimate cuz obviously are not. The one it is an official CANON pair and the other FANON.

So starting from that point … aren’t equal. Ofc you can debate on whatever you want and support that Zeki WILL (not currently but in the future) prevail but this doesn’t mean also that we should agree with your arguments.

I guess you can see the difference between respect(your right to state your opinion) and agree(with your opinion).

Okay i think we need to calm down a little. This is only a manga remember its not life or death.

I think we should move on with discussion. We won't ever agree on the pairings that much we know as fact. We are all interpretting this differently, i dont think on this we will ever see eye to eye. So lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that until we get more in future chapters.

I have to say that I agree with Shoujo... EVERYTHING I say about ZeKi is shot down or proven wrong and SOME of you can be very rude to me...Im just saying how I feel and HOW do I get treated? LIKE CRAP!

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!! Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN!

I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY

Sassa... I love you. That is all. ^^ <3

Yes Finally someone says something!!!!

Hehe...Thanks guys ^^

Look people, I dont know why you guys have to fight with us and quote every letter and disagree. We too are people taking pride in the ship that we recognize and I ask that you give respect. I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. In chapter 79 I believe it was Yuuki who specifically said " I have to stop Kaname " which in my opinion means he is not doing a good job keeping what I would say a Good Relationship...

I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it. I dont think we all should be fighting but when times are ridiculous as this then it starts to get out of control.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

You are immediately bashing/flaming and you also ignore a moderators recommendation, you are forcing the rules on your own with your behavior or do you intend to put the blame again on us for being rude when you overview totally the moderation’s suggestions? That is a post above yours;

I think we should move on with discussion. We won't ever agree on the pairings that much we know as fact. We are all interpretting this differently, i dont think on this we will ever see eye to eye. So lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that until we get more in future chapters.

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!!

Is this the way that you are suggesting that we should respect you? By disregarding posts like yours or sentences like this

And I will be ready to laugh in your faces so hard if Zeki wins and all of your novel posts were meaningless. Having said that, I will not be commenting on anything more concerning this immature Zeki vs Yume battle

This is part of the post that Shoujo-zo made in response to my post that did not contain any personal neither general bashing elements and I deliberately overviewed it (because if I had wanted I could have answered with the real RUDE tone that you seem to use) but you are not dropping the issue.

We are doing our best to ignore your bashes but facing an argument or an extended debate (and here we had not even started) you are self-exploding over a sea of emotions for fictional pairing without being able to sustain the argument state.

Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

After swallowing down the bashing, now the next recommendation is to shut up? I see that you tend to confuse respect with silence and bashing attitudes with opinions.

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN! I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

And you are stating all of the above in order to argue over what? Do you understand what you read? If you disagree over an argument, make sure that you understand the argument, because right now you are bashing and flaming WITHOUT even touching what we said and stated. Just for the reference;

nobody says that you can not support or state your opinion but we also state to that opinion our thoughts; that its a total hypothetical opinion, in reality zeki can not be compared to yume because Zeki and Yuuki never passed to the next stage in order for anyone to form an opinion about them as a couple. That's a fact, we don't say that to argue over it, because there is nothing about it to argue...they are not just in the same level to be compared...

A true comparison could be made only to the stage where Kaname and Yuuki were still a potential couple to be...

better to find a common ground and leave statements about the future be so.

Ofc you can debate on whatever you want and support that Zeki WILL (not currently but in the future) prevail but this doesn’t mean also that we should agree with your arguments.

I am literally speechless (but not surprised) to see that are moving in circles and you are even flaming us and ignoring the moderation and the rules of the proper behavior in the forum in order to state what? what we actually stated before you at the above posts? So what’s the fuss about? To bash us for an opinion that we actually supported before you? What are you disagreeing with? With your own opinion that we supported above as well?

Perhaps a better reading could help you…in the future time, not to expose yourselves so easily or at least resulting in bashing attitudes when it really worths the trouble, right now all of this self-explosion is over nothing. But since you want this go on and feel free to burn yourself more...

I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it.

The same things that I said above, that you are ranting here (in contrast to what you write) goes for you too. You are all self-exploding like a balloon of hot air without even understanding what we said, because its obvious that you did not.
Since you are appealing to fairness, I suggest considering the fact that this is an open forum and anyone can write and support through arguments his/her points. The lack of disagreement from the Zeki’s part is not my problem to solve. I’ve been to too many forums and I never asked from the forum to solve my problems. Anymore demands about an argument that we first supported?

Haha things are still as lovely here as ever, aren't they? To answer to the topic, what I support right now is, um... bloodredhead's comment:

Okay i think we need to calm down a little. This is only a manga remember its not life or death.

I think we should move on with discussion. We won't ever agree on the pairings that much we know as fact. We are all interpretting this differently, i dont think on this we will ever see eye to eye. So lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that until we get more in future chapters.

Cosign.

juliet wrote:

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

You are immediately bashing/flaming and you also ignore a moderators recommendation, you are forcing the rules on your own with your behavior or do you intend to put the blame again on us for being rude when you overview totally the moderation’s suggestions? That is a post above yours;

I think we should move on with discussion. We won't ever agree on the pairings that much we know as fact. We are all interpretting this differently, i dont think on this we will ever see eye to eye. So lets just agree to disagree and leave it at that until we get more in future chapters.

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!!

Is this the way that you are suggesting that we should respect you? By disregarding posts like yours or sentences like this

And I will be ready to laugh in your faces so hard if Zeki wins and all of your novel posts were meaningless. Having said that, I will not be commenting on anything more concerning this immature Zeki vs Yume battle

This is part of the post that Shoujo-zo made in response to my post that did not contain any personal neither general bashing elements and I deliberately overviewed it (because if I had wanted I could have answered with the real RUDE tone that you seem to use) but you are not dropping the issue.

We are doing our best to ignore your bashes but facing an argument or an extended debate (and here we had not even started) you are self-exploding over a sea of emotions for fictional pairing without being able to sustain the argument state.

Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

After swallowing down the bashing, now the next recommendation is to shut up? I see that you tend to confuse respect with silence and bashing attitudes with opinions.

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN! I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

And you are stating all of the above in order to argue over what? Do you understand what you read? If you disagree over an argument, make sure that you understand the argument, because right now you are bashing and flaming WITHOUT even touching what we said and stated. Just for the reference;

nobody says that you can not support or state your opinion but we also state to that opinion our thoughts; that its a total hypothetical opinion, in reality zeki can not be compared to yume because Zeki and Yuuki never passed to the next stage in order for anyone to form an opinion about them as a couple. That's a fact, we don't say that to argue over it, because there is nothing about it to argue...they are not just in the same level to be compared...

A true comparison could be made only to the stage where Kaname and Yuuki were still a potential couple to be...

better to find a common ground and leave statements about the future be so.

Ofc you can debate on whatever you want and support that Zeki WILL (not currently but in the future) prevail but this doesn’t mean also that we should agree with your arguments.

I am literally speechless (but not surprised) to see that are moving in circles and you are even flaming us and ignoring the moderation and the rules of the proper behavior in the forum in order to state what? what we actually stated before you at the above posts? So what’s the fuss about? To bash us for an opinion that we actually supported before you? What are you disagreeing with? With your own opinion that we supported above as well?

Perhaps a better reading could help you…in the future time, not to expose yourselves so easily or at least resulting in bashing attitudes when it really worths the trouble, right now all of this self-explosion is over nothing. But since you want this go on and feel free to burn yourself more...

I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it.

The same things that I said above, that you are ranting here (in contrast to what you write) goes for you too. You are all self-exploding like a balloon of hot air without even understanding what we said, because its obvious that you did not.
Since you are appealing to fairness, I suggest considering the fact that this is an open forum and anyone can write and support through arguments his/her points. The lack of disagreement from the Zeki’s part is not my problem to solve. I’ve been to too many forums and I never asked from the forum to solve my problems. Anymore demands about an argument that we first supported?

You are mixing my posts with other peoples posts? And then you say that we are even ignoring our posts and being the bad guys . I have no control what other people say so I dont think you should add parts of my post and make it look like Zekis are hypocrites... I AM paying attention to your posts and I respect that your a moderator but the ships we like are the complete opposite so of course we are going to disagree with each other. Honestly there is no point in fighting because we will never come with an equal solution. I DO ask you though to not fuse my words with the words of another person and try to shoot both of us down because of it. Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

You are mixing my posts with other peoples posts? And then you say that we are even ignoring our posts and being the bad guys. I DO ask you though to not fuse my words with the words of another person and try to shoot both of us down because of it. Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

I see that you still refuse to let go of the issue....let me see now who is mixing what words?

SassyKnight wrote:I have to say that I agree with Shoujo... EVERYTHING I say about ZeKi is shot down or proven wrong and SOME of you can be very rude to me...Im just saying how I feel and HOW do I get treated? LIKE CRAP!

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!! Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN!

I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Yes Finally someone says something!!!!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Look people, I dont know why you guys have to fight with us and quote every letter and disagree. We too are people taking pride in the ship that we recognize and I ask that you give respect. I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. In chapter 79 I believe it was Yuuki who specifically said " I have to stop Kaname " which in my opinion means he is not doing a good job keeping what I would say a Good Relationship...

I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it. I dont think we all should be fighting but when times are ridiculous as this then it starts to get out of control.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

Are these my posts? Or I am the one cheering Sassy's aggressive and flamming speech here?
Or perhaps I am the one controlling who you cheer?

There are two parts here; the first part was the flamming and the rude tone with which Sassy talked taking a lead after her friend Shoujo who started a rather non justified attack out of nowhere while we were discussing the Yume vs Zeki subject.

You cheer and applaude these behaviours, and you are tossed the "3 to 6 zekis against yume" subject here -totally irrelevant to any debate done in this thread- I answered to both matters to close that subject.

And the other part is the initial subject for which you all started the flaming and the aggressive/defensive attitude after my latest post where i explained why I believe that Yume can not be compared with Zeki as a COUPLE.

You also ran in the defense mode without any absolute reason to take out your complaints.

(why? because we stated that Yuuki and Zero are not a couple but they are not, are they? did we state that you can not support them as a pairing? NO! On the contrary, we actually said and supported that you can support them as a potential couple. Why not now? simple because if you judge Zeki as a couple NOW, you are falling in the pit called reality - you do not know how they would be as a couple- no manga evidence- so how do you compare them?) and from there, you are answering on your own that Zeki can exist and that you support them. Did we say otherwise? So to whom do you answer?

What's the reason of the attack and the cheers?

1. You cheer a defensive/flamming post that answers to something that we never stated? Why do you throw oil to fire? This is a flaming aggressive behavior and you openly supported it and added to it, not even with a relevant argument, but with a general complaint that is irrelevant to the thread and to the forum, since there is freedom of speech and personal will. We do not oblige people to write...

Anyway, when you are cheering such behaviors and you address general complaints on a thread that discusses the zeki vs yume matter, and you find the opportunity to support your friends and openly take side, please do not tell me

[/b]Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

because what is fair also screams with cheers.

2. This is a discussion thread about Zeki vS Yume...not the personal space for you or any other to make attacks and flame the forum. If you have run out of arguments, then stop the discussion, don't swift direction trying to throw the ball elsewhere. The best approach towards this would be such matters and complaints to be erased. You can use pm to tell your personal complaints, the moderating team is obliged to take them into consideration because that's her role. Consuming the space of the threads in this way,
also shows disrespect towards other members that do not want to read irrelevant posts but only the core point of each thread.

Please lets close that subject here, since is time-consuming and leads to nowhere (I think that this is the second time that it is asked), we can all be aggressive if we want but this is not the case. If you have any more arguments about the Zeki vs Yume subject, lets continue, either wise please preserve your personal attacks that do not concern and the readers for other moments and more "heavy matters". You do not want to lose all of your arguments so soon...there i am making you and 'time-economy" , seriously if you want to discuss matters or complaints of personal nature only through pm, or the posts shall be erased and this closes the issue here for me.

juliet wrote:

You are mixing my posts with other peoples posts? And then you say that we are even ignoring our posts and being the bad guys. I DO ask you though to not fuse my words with the words of another person and try to shoot both of us down because of it. Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

I see that you still refuse to let go of the issue....let me see now who is mixing what words?

SassyKnight wrote:I have to say that I agree with Shoujo... EVERYTHING I say about ZeKi is shot down or proven wrong and SOME of you can be very rude to me...Im just saying how I feel and HOW do I get treated? LIKE CRAP!

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!! Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN!

I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Yes Finally someone says something!!!!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Look people, I dont know why you guys have to fight with us and quote every letter and disagree. We too are people taking pride in the ship that we recognize and I ask that you give respect. I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. In chapter 79 I believe it was Yuuki who specifically said " I have to stop Kaname " which in my opinion means he is not doing a good job keeping what I would say a Good Relationship...

I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it. I dont think we all should be fighting but when times are ridiculous as this then it starts to get out of control.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

Are these my posts? Or I am the one cheering Sassy's aggressive and flamming speech here?
Or perhaps I am the one controlling who you cheer?

There are two parts here; the first part was the flamming and the rude tone with which Sassy talked taking a lead after her friend Shoujo who started a rather non justified attack out of nowhere while we were discussing the Yume vs Zeki subject.

You cheer and applaude these behaviours, and you are tossed the "3 to 6 zekis against yume" subject here -totally irrelevant to any debate done in this thread- I answered to both matters to close that subject.

And the other part is the initial subject for which you all started the flaming and the aggressive/defensive attitude after my latest post where i explained why I believe that Yume can not be compared with Zeki as a COUPLE.

You also ran in the defense mode without any absolute reason to take out your complaints.

(why? because we stated that Yuuki and Zero are not a couple but they are not, are they? did we state that you can not support them as a pairing? NO! On the contrary, we actually said and supported that you can support them as a potential couple. Why not now? simple because if you judge Zeki as a couple NOW, you are falling in the pit called reality - you do not know how they would be as a couple- no manga evidence- so how do you compare them?) and from there, you are answering on your own that Zeki can exist and that you support them. Did we say otherwise? So to whom do you answer?

What's the reason of the attack and the cheers?

1. You cheer a defensive/flamming post that answers to something that we never stated? Why do you throw oil to fire? This is a flaming aggressive behavior and you openly supported it and added to it, not even with a relevant argument, but with a general complaint that is irrelevant to the thread and to the forum, since there is freedom of speech and personal will. We do not oblige people to write...

Anyway, when you are cheering such behaviors and you address general complaints on a thread that discusses the zeki vs yume matter, and you find the opportunity to support your friends and openly take side, please do not tell me

[/b]Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

because what is fair also screams with cheers.

2. This is a discussion thread about Zeki vS Yume...not the personal space for you or any other to make attacks and flame the forum. If you have run out of arguments, then stop the discussion, don't swift direction trying to throw the ball elsewhere. The best approach towards this would be such matters and complaints to be erased. You can use pm to tell your personal complaints, the moderating team is obliged to take them into consideration because that's her role. Consuming the space of the threads in this way,
also shows disrespect towards other members that do not want to read irrelevant posts but only the core point of each thread.

Please lets close that subject here, since is time-consuming and leads to nowhere (I think that this is the second time that it is asked), we can all be aggressive if we want but this is not the case. If you have any more arguments about the Zeki vs Yume subject, lets continue, either wise please preserve your personal attacks that do not concern and the readers for other moments and more "heavy matters". You do not want to lose all of your arguments so soon...there i am making you and 'time-economy" , seriously if you want to discuss matters or complaints of personal nature only through pm, or the posts shall be erased and this closes the issue here for me.

Ah yeah I see it now, we have been over the edge sometimes. My apologies to you and the others haha we just got carried away and I speak on behalf of Shoujo and Sassa too. I understand you are one of the main moderators on the sight and from the way you just put it, we did cheer for Sassa as she blew like a bomb From here on out we call peace for Yumes and Zekis until the next big moments between the couples. Once again I apologize for my flaming, as I look at it now, a Yume is just another VK fan just with a different vision. Hopefully one day this gap between us will come together

~~~Lamia

PurusBloodLamia wrote:

juliet wrote:

You are mixing my posts with other peoples posts? And then you say that we are even ignoring our posts and being the bad guys. I DO ask you though to not fuse my words with the words of another person and try to shoot both of us down because of it. Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

I see that you still refuse to let go of the issue....let me see now who is mixing what words?

SassyKnight wrote:I have to say that I agree with Shoujo... EVERYTHING I say about ZeKi is shot down or proven wrong and SOME of you can be very rude to me...Im just saying how I feel and HOW do I get treated? LIKE CRAP!

I do not care what some of you say about ZeKi, because I swear I will keep rooting for ZeKi until the very end, and laugh my head off if ZeKi IS endgame and all your posts are worthless...Sorry Im just saying how I feel on this forum and I dont get treated well...And believe me I DONT like how I am being treated!!

I also wanna say to some of you YuMes to STOP being rude to my other mates who are ZeKis like me...PLEASE respect their views and STOP treating them like crap!!! Put yourself in our shoes and think how you would feel!! And seriously, you DONT NEED to write a novel post for EVERYTHING us ZeKi's say that isn't what you believe...RESPECT US AND WE WILL RESPECT YOU!

I think that BOTH couples have a chance...But ZeKi is what I BELIEVE IN!

I am saying how I feel...And ZeKi DOES have romance and it DOES have a chance of being endgame...END OF STORY

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Yes Finally someone says something!!!!

PurusBloodLamia wrote:Look people, I dont know why you guys have to fight with us and quote every letter and disagree. We too are people taking pride in the ship that we recognize and I ask that you give respect. I mean its 3 Zeki fans against like 6 Yume fans on this sight and frankly I dont think the numbers are fair. In chapter 79 I believe it was Yuuki who specifically said " I have to stop Kaname " which in my opinion means he is not doing a good job keeping what I would say a Good Relationship...

I really dislike that every thing that we say is shot down immediately and the fact that we are not ranting on your opinions also adds to it. I dont think we all should be fighting but when times are ridiculous as this then it starts to get out of control.

My final answer is that Zeki will have their moments and nobody can deny that.

Are these my posts? Or I am the one cheering Sassy's aggressive and flamming speech here?
Or perhaps I am the one controlling who you cheer?

There are two parts here; the first part was the flamming and the rude tone with which Sassy talked taking a lead after her friend Shoujo who started a rather non justified attack out of nowhere while we were discussing the Yume vs Zeki subject.

You cheer and applaude these behaviours, and you are tossed the "3 to 6 zekis against yume" subject here -totally irrelevant to any debate done in this thread- I answered to both matters to close that subject.

And the other part is the initial subject for which you all started the flaming and the aggressive/defensive attitude after my latest post where i explained why I believe that Yume can not be compared with Zeki as a COUPLE.

You also ran in the defense mode without any absolute reason to take out your complaints.

(why? because we stated that Yuuki and Zero are not a couple but they are not, are they? did we state that you can not support them as a pairing? NO! On the contrary, we actually said and supported that you can support them as a potential couple. Why not now? simple because if you judge Zeki as a couple NOW, you are falling in the pit called reality - you do not know how they would be as a couple- no manga evidence- so how do you compare them?) and from there, you are answering on your own that Zeki can exist and that you support them. Did we say otherwise? So to whom do you answer?

What's the reason of the attack and the cheers?

1. You cheer a defensive/flamming post that answers to something that we never stated? Why do you throw oil to fire? This is a flaming aggressive behavior and you openly supported it and added to it, not even with a relevant argument, but with a general complaint that is irrelevant to the thread and to the forum, since there is freedom of speech and personal will. We do not oblige people to write...

Anyway, when you are cheering such behaviors and you address general complaints on a thread that discusses the zeki vs yume matter, and you find the opportunity to support your friends and openly take side, please do not tell me

[/b]Thats the reason why I wonder if this is fair because the other Zeki fans and I are completely different people even though they are my friends.

because what is fair also screams with cheers.

2. This is a discussion thread about Zeki vS Yume...not the personal space for you or any other to make attacks and flame the forum. If you have run out of arguments, then stop the discussion, don't swift direction trying to throw the ball elsewhere. The best approach towards this would be such matters and complaints to be erased. You can use pm to tell your personal complaints, the moderating team is obliged to take them into consideration because that's her role. Consuming the space of the threads in this way,
also shows disrespect towards other members that do not want to read irrelevant posts but only the core point of each thread.

Please lets close that subject here, since is time-consuming and leads to nowhere (I think that this is the second time that it is asked), we can all be aggressive if we want but this is not the case. If you have any more arguments about the Zeki vs Yume subject, lets continue, either wise please preserve your personal attacks that do not concern and the readers for other moments and more "heavy matters". You do not want to lose all of your arguments so soon...there i am making you and 'time-economy" , seriously if you want to discuss matters or complaints of personal nature only through pm, or the posts shall be erased and this closes the issue here for me.

Ah yeah I see it now, we have been over the edge sometimes. My apologies to you and the others haha we just got carried away and I speak on behalf of Shoujo and Sassa too. I understand you are one of the main moderators on the sight and from the way you just put it, we did cheer for Sassa as she blew like a bomb From here on out we call peace for Yumes and Zekis until the next big moments between the couples. Once again I apologize for my flaming, as I look at it now, a Yume is just another VK fan just with a different vision. Hopefully one day this gap between us will come together

~~~Lamia

agreed! lets move on...

Yes, sorry guys...I really can get frustrated and angry and just say the wrong things...But as Juliet said, lets move on ^_^

I have always believed that ZeKi was always on a level that YuMe just cannot reach...ZeKi can communicate without words, and know each others feelings but keep it all to themselves...But to be able to see into each others eyes and know that person better than anyone else, is TRUE love to me

And what Kaname said here really gives me the indication that he no longer needs Yuki any more:
http://i32.mangareader.net/vampire-knight/67/vampire-knight-1752629.jpg
"I'm done hesitating...I made my choice only once to stay with you...However, I am going to fulfil my original plans..."

By this statement Kaname said he made his decision to stay with Yuki only once...And he wants to achieve his original goals...Hmmm...It seems to me that Kaname perhaps thinks it's finally time for him to just kill every Pureblood for the sake of coexistence, and then when the time comes, turn Yuki into a human and leave her in Zero's care...That's the only way I see it...Because what will Kaname do? If his desire is no longer Yuki then maybe he wants to die?

Kaname probably knows that sooner or later Yuki WILL have no more hope for living...