Is there a chance for Zero and Yuuki to come together?

Li.llium wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:
@Zero being on Sara's side, honestly i see it more like a mutual agreement then being actually allies. They are both so different with lots of different view points that it won't last long. I expect Zero to turn on her in the coming chapters, if he's his own master time to stand up and fight for what he believes in for his reasons and not others.

Yes, blood, for now, it's just business. But I have a little suspicion that Zero will be very frustrated because he could not defeat Kaname. It was a humiliation. So I will not be surprised if he decides to drink more of sara´s blood. Although the initial motivation will not be to stay on her side, invariably, in this case he will be controlled by her.

Bloodredhead wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:Kaname has killed, whatever reason he had, dosen´t change that fact. Thats my opion.

Now this whats gets me, regardless of his reasons it seems you won't listen or forgive yet with other characters who have killed and given reasons its been alright cos you accepted their reasons. For example Zero has killed, so has Kaien, Yagari, Aidou etc yet i its fine with them due to their reasons. So my question really is why treat Kaname so differently? O.o Sorry, but if your not even going to give him a chance to wait for his reasons to then make a decision, yet give the other characters a chance, i do find that very biased.

@Zero being on Sara's side, honestly i see it more like a mutual agreement then being actually allies. They are both so different with lots of different view points that it won't last long. I expect Zero to turn on her in the coming chapters, if he's his own master time to stand up and fight for what he believes in for his reasons and not others.

VampireCythia wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:Kaname has killed, whatever reason he had, dosen´t change that fact. Thats my opion.

Now this whats gets me, regardless of his reasons it seems you won't listen or forgive yet with other characters who have killed and given reasons its been alright cos you accepted their reasons. For example Zero has killed, so has Kaien, Yagari, Aidou etc yet i its fine with them due to their reasons. So my question really is why treat Kaname so differently? O.o Sorry, but if your not even going to give him a chance to wait for his reasons to then make a decision, yet give the other characters a chance, i do find that very biased.

@Zero being on Sara's side, honestly i see it more like a mutual agreement then being actually allies. They are both so different with lots of different view points that it won't last long. I expect Zero to turn on her in the coming chapters, if he's his own master time to stand up and fight for what he believes in for his reasons and not others.

Saying Kaname has killed, is biased? I feel like I´m being viewed like a Kaname hater, which I aren´t. People have different views on kills in this manga. I personaly don´t view Kaname as "bad" because he has killed.

I want to have a reason why he has killed. Like others.

If Zero killed someone I would be very confused, but I wouldn´t defend him without a good reason to do so.

If you think I´m biased because of this go ahead and think like this.

Bloodredhead wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

Now this whats gets me, regardless of his reasons it seems you won't listen or forgive yet with other characters who have killed and given reasons its been alright cos you accepted their reasons. For example Zero has killed, so has Kaien, Yagari, Aidou etc yet i its fine with them due to their reasons. So my question really is why treat Kaname so differently? O.o Sorry, but if your not even going to give him a chance to wait for his reasons to then make a decision, yet give the other characters a chance, i do find that very biased.

@Zero being on Sara's side, honestly i see it more like a mutual agreement then being actually allies. They are both so different with lots of different view points that it won't last long. I expect Zero to turn on her in the coming chapters, if he's his own master time to stand up and fight for what he believes in for his reasons and not others.

Saying Kaname has killed, is biased? I feel like I´m being viewed like a Kaname hater, which I aren´t. People have different views on kills in this manga. I personaly don´t view Kaname as "bad" because he has killed.

I want to have a reason why he has killed. Like others.

If Zero killed someone I would be very confused, but I wouldn´t defend him without a good reason to do so.

If you think I´m biased because of this go ahead and think like this.

I didnt say that it was biased to say he has killed, what i was stating was from your post it came across as no matter what his reasons, you wont listen really. And my point was you have let other characters explain their actions even though they have done things that we could all re-coil back from, yet with kaname you dont seem to be giving him a chance to give his reasons. Thats how your post came across to me. I just feel kaname should be given an opportunity to explain before he's judgeed and hung out to dry, we gave the other characters the same curtesy so why not him?

And i didnt say you were a kaname hater, *looks back at posts* nope never said it or wrote it.

VampireCythia wrote:Hino hasn´t explained Kaname´s behaviour yet. And I already said I don´t view him like that. Sorry If I sounded biased. But I didn´t say I wouldn´t let him as a character explain his action. I don´t remember ever saying that. I didn´t say you said I was a Kaname hater, I felt like I was one, with what you wrote.

I said what I said because I first of all, Kaname hasn´t explained yet, So I think it´s okay for people to don´t like him right now. I respect people´s opion if they still like him. I don´t either hate him or love him really. If I like his character by the end, it´s because he has explained a reason for his doings.

Bloodredhead wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:Hino hasn´t explained Kaname´s behaviour yet. And I already said I don´t view him like that. Sorry If I sounded biased. But I didn´t say I wouldn´t let him as a character explain his action. I don´t remember ever saying that. I didn´t say you said I was a Kaname hater, I felt like I was one, with what you wrote.

I said what I said because I first of all, Kaname hasn´t explained yet, So I think it´s okay for people to don´t like him right now. I respect people´s opion if they still like him. I don´t either hate him or love him really. If I like his character by the end, it´s because he has explained a reason for his doings.

Fair enough just when you said "no matter his reasons" it does come across as you weren't going to let him explain, so thanks for clarifiying. ^^

Yes i can understand why people dont like him at the moment, but i do feel alot are jumping the gun with him.

VampireCythia wrote:

Bloodredhead wrote:

VampireCythia wrote:

Saying Kaname has killed, is biased? I feel like I´m being viewed like a Kaname hater, which I aren´t. People have different views on kills in this manga. I personaly don´t view Kaname as "bad" because he has killed.

I want to have a reason why he has killed. Like others.

If Zero killed someone I would be very confused, but I wouldn´t defend him without a good reason to do so.

If you think I´m biased because of this go ahead and think like this.

I didnt say that it was biased to say he has killed, what i was stating was from your post it came across as no matter what his reasons, you wont listen really. And my point was you have let other characters explain their actions even though they have done things that we could all re-coil back from, yet with kaname you dont seem to be giving him a chance to give his reasons. Thats how your post came across to me. I just feel kaname should be given an opportunity to explain before he's judgeed and hung out to dry, we gave the other characters the same curtesy so why not him?

And i didnt say you were a kaname hater, *looks back at posts* nope never said it or wrote it.

Hino hasn´t explained Kaname´s behaviour yet. And I already said I don´t view him like that. Sorry If I sounded biased. But I didn´t say I wouldn´t let him as a character explain his action. I don´t remember ever saying that. I didn´t say you said I was a Kaname hater, I felt like I was one, with what you wrote.

I said what I said because I first of all, Kaname hasn´t explained yet, So I think it´s okay for people to don´t like him right now. I respect people´s opion if they still like him. I don´t either hate him or love him really. If I like his character by the end, it´s because he has explained a reason for his doings.

VampireCythia wrote:

If Zero killed someone I would be very confused, but I wouldn´t defend him without a good reason to do so.

Kaname has killed, whatever reason he had, dosen´t change that fact. Thats my opion.

Oh gosh I need to get out of this forum, it´s suffocating here. *Leaves this forum and don´t intend to return for a while*

yuuki kiryuu wrote:Vampire knight is probably one complicated manga, a lot of things can happen I do believe things will get better for zero, even if you think he is acting wrong, he is not on Sara's side he wanted to have an advantage from so called "alliance" and although that's not the best choice but he wanted to fulfill his vengeance, he is an ordinary vampire no special powers, but he can get stronger, I'm just longing for the moment when zero bites yuuki just like all times (the reason I like VK so much!).

Now my opinion on yuukis feelings: she loves kaname, we already know that and that is the only thing that she's done so far, from her very old memories, the only thing that she knows is that she has to love kaname that is beyond if he is her brother or watherver, but as for Zero, I think her feelings are stronger than frienship or fraternal she can't realize or just keeps back those feelings but it is possible that she loves both in a different way, she loves kaname passionately and zero in a tender way.

I'm pretty sure who's actions are bad guy even if he had a reason or not..but in the end it will be a "I told you so!" thing, and don't be so harsh with zero! just a thought

poor thing how can yo not love him, he is so cute!

By yuuki kiryuu :

but it is possible that she loves both in a different way, she loves kaname passionately and zero in a tender way.

mariangie wrote:A detail some people are forgetting .

Killing vampires is not a crime under human eyes .

The story had make this clear .

Human values and vampire values differ .

Of course for the rest of vampires , kaname killing his own kin is a crime . For humans / vampire hunters is not only okay if this happpens . They consider a good deed killing the ones who attack / with the potential to harm / kill humans .

For the humans who know about the existance of vampires . A lot even consider vampires only to be use for their talents and contributions in science , athletics and similar fields . To discart them when not usefull. Or to even consider vampires for experimentation or other thinsg unethical to do to humans .

Of course this doesn't justify Kaname's actions under any vampire eyes . Unless he ends giving a very good explanation . But by human standards ; Kaname is exactly performing what a great majority of humans would like to happen .

**************************

About Zero saying he is his own master .

How I understand this is :
Zero knows all his recent actions had being chosen by his own free - will .

Zero believes this time nobody forced to made any choice . That he now had the strength to get his revenge against Kaname . Killing Kaname and erase the thing he hates more in the world using the same weapons Kaname given him in the past : Kaname's blood and Bloody Rose .

But I think Zero tried to grab more than he could hold . Because after he saying he has full control of the situation . Including his own powers and Bloody Rose . Kaname just turn the situation to his favor . Showing Zero that he wasn't the one at control as he thought .

*************************

By yuuki kiryuu :

but it is possible that she loves both in a different way, she loves kaname passionately and zero in a tender way.

You are saying Yuuki way to love Kaname includes her lusting for him . She cares about Zero . But no passion in Yuuki's love for Zero .

Basically what I can understand is . If Yuuki ends with Zero as couple . They will treat each other more as friends than as lovers . Kind a boring end if Zeki happens with Yuuki showing having most tender loving feelings for Zero .

If Yuuki trully loves Zero more ; she needs to be more passionate about her displaying her feelings to Zero very soon . Now is the time for doing so . As Kaname is trying to get her out of his life forever . But what is happening in reality . The most impetuous and impulsive love displays from Yuuki to any of the guys are to Kaname .

mariangie wrote:A detail some people are forgetting .

Killing vampires is not a crime under human eyes .

The story had make this clear .

Human values and vampire values differ .

Falc0n wrote:

mariangie wrote:A detail some people are forgetting .

Killing vampires is not a crime under human eyes .

The story had make this clear .

Human values and vampire values differ .

yup, what I get from this story at the moment is that killing the purebloods is okay b/c it’s the solution to the problem of co-existence. as long as your good pureblood love is alive, killing the rest for the greater good is fine.

-Kaname made his research to create the weapons and help the humans kill the fools... but does he really want them all dead regardless of whom ?? (except Yuuki of course) thus sacrificing himself too at the end as justice ? or is he acting as a god judging who should live and who should die ? < either way killing a bunch of purebloods was his idea in the first place as ancestor. It’s necessary to achieve his co-existence ideology.

but IF killing ALL purebloods is his TRUE intention, under that light I can’t see him making children with Yuuki bringing new more purebloods to life, even if Yuuki convinced him to live. That would be very lame and illogical. plus he can’t be sure that no one of his linage will be evil like Rido.


-HW came to realize that Kaname was right about the purebloods being the root of the problem and thus she sacrificed herself in his place < she wished for it too.. for all purebloods to die and she went first.


-Hunters wants all pureblood dead regardless of their personality. Even Kaien in his old days thought soo too. < for humans sake, it was for the best.


-Kaien cross now probably the only one believes that no life should be killed good or evil and sheltered both Touma and agreed to shelter Sara < he’s the only one against killing them


-Ichiru told Zero to live on and fulfill his goal. What goal ? killing the purebloods, no ?


- Zero wants to kill the purebloods


-Yuuki is Hino’s justice. Yuuki aided and wanted her uncle Rido dead. Held her artimis and offered the reaper service so no human will suffer if they want to die. And what she heard and saw about Kaname’s killings didn’t make her horrified by the act and her love for Kaname surpassed it < it’s no big deal if some vampires die, just get your love back.

So Why exactly does she want Kaname to stop now ? to simply have him back home safe and alive to warm her bed ? Or to stop the killings like Kaien ? which factor is “mainly” pushing her to “find/stop Kaname” ? is it love.. or justice ? And which one will surpass the other at the end ? would she stand in Kaname’s way if Kaname is about to kill Sara, Touma, Isaya or any other pureblood ?

That’s a very important question I want Hino to answer. I’m eager to see Hino’s justice in full action.

Falc0n wrote:

mariangie wrote:A detail some people are forgetting .

Killing vampires is not a crime under human eyes .

The story had make this clear .

Human values and vampire values differ .

yup, what I get from this story at the moment is that killing the purebloods is okay b/c it’s the solution to the problem of co-existence. as long as your good pureblood love is alive, killing the rest for the greater good is fine.

-Kaname made his research to create the weapons and help the humans kill the fools... but does he really want them all dead regardless of whom ?? (except Yuuki of course) thus sacrificing himself too at the end as justice ? or is he acting as a god judging who should live and who should die ? < either way killing a bunch of purebloods was his idea in the first place as ancestor. It’s necessary to achieve his co-existence ideology.

but IF killing ALL purebloods is his TRUE intention, under that light I can’t see him making children with Yuuki bringing new more purebloods to life, even if Yuuki convinced him to live. That would be very lame and illogical. plus he can’t be sure that no one of his linage will be evil like Rido.


-HW came to realize that Kaname was right about the purebloods being the root of the problem and thus she sacrificed herself in his place < she wished for it too.. for all purebloods to die and she went first.


-Hunters wants all pureblood dead regardless of their personality. Even Kaien in his old days thought soo too. < for humans sake, it was for the best.


-Kaien cross now probably the only one believes that no life should be killed good or evil and sheltered both Touma and agreed to shelter Sara < he’s the only one against killing them


-Ichiru told Zero to live on and fulfill his goal. What goal ? killing the purebloods, no ?


- Zero wants to kill the purebloods


-Yuuki is Hino’s justice. Yuuki aided and wanted her uncle Rido dead. Held her artimis and offered the reaper service so no human will suffer if they want to die. And what she heard and saw about Kaname’s killings didn’t make her horrified by the act and her love for Kaname surpassed it < it’s no big deal if some vampires die, just get your love back.

So Why exactly does she want Kaname to stop now ? to simply have him back home safe and alive to warm her bed ? Or to stop the killings like Kaien ? which factor is “mainly” pushing her to “find/stop Kaname” ? is it love.. or justice ? And which one will surpass the other at the end ? would she stand in Kaname’s way if Kaname is about to kill Sara, Touma, Isaya or any other pureblood ?

That’s a very important question I want Hino to answer. I’m eager to see Hino’s justice in full action.

Li.llium wrote:This phrase should not be considered out of context. There are lists of vampires who must be killed. This prevents an indiscriminate killings. Kaien said it to Zero in a bonus. Only dangerous vampires come in this list. So, it is implied that although killing a vampire is not a crime, this vampire must be killed only if he is on wanted list.


Taking it to Kaname, Hanadagi´s, Hio´s Nagamichi´s deaths hasn´t apparent reason. Considering he said he wants the death of each PB, here, there isn´t difference whether if he is who is killing or Sara. At this point, to Yuki, who represents justice, these deaths should not happen.

But I think these people are part of a terrorism committe (except nagamichi). Because Kaname told to Hio "I'm tired of you doing the same things you did before" something like this.

There is an incomplete information here, since I do not know what "they" are doing.

In any case, my personal opinion is that Kaname chose the surest path to peace. The safest way is the absence of PB. It is not the way most fair or good.

But I like to see blood. Minus zero´s :3
So, I pity only Isaya (although I think Isaya'll kill himself). I'm not saying Kaname is fair. I just think there are many leve-E in the world. Perhaps these vampires had turned many humans into vampires in the past. Or they were connived with it. And the safest way is the end of PB. It isn´t the initial desire of HW, but she is not against that point.

I think we´re out of thred issue ._.