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    The ancestor theories

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    Administration Team
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    The ancestor theories

    Post by Administration Team on Mon May 10, 2010 6:58 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    What are your theories about Kaname's ancestor past? Is he running out of guilts about something?

    kanachanimmortal
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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by kanachanimmortal on Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:20 pm

    nina wrote:
    Duskola wrote: The only thing that I would find strange is that - from what I've read until now - it seems to me she's somewhat "logical" rofl in what she writes, that is, if reincarnation would be possible in her "world", then she would have showed us something like that, instead of reviving pure blood raising from their coffins. BUT obviously, with Hino you can't know until the very end, so maybe she kept the biggest power of PB secret so that she could make us all a BIG SURPRISE in the end!

    Ah I have thought about that too, and you are right on this observation. But even IF Hino would use the reincarnation “trick” or something similar to that (since it is supernatural you never know what mechanism she can think of lol) that doesn’t necessarily means that it is a power or a procedure that ALL PBs can perform, neither Hino is obligated to show that this can happen regularly.

    Where she can base on? >>

    1. That not ALL PBs have the same powers … their abilities varied. For example Shizuka could “manipulate” plants … we saw that she was standing beside a blooming sakura in the middle of winter when she attack at the Kiryuus, but this power was unique… we didn’t see any other PB to do the same. Either way I think it was Aidou who had said very early in the story that only the PBs themselves know their powers hence their abilities differ.

    2. The PBs’ progenitors (like Kaname, HW and ALL the first breed of PBs who appeared 10000 ago) had superior powers than PBs of second, third generation etc. Now we know that only Kaname has left from the progenitors and no one else thus and he is the most powerful being.
    BUT IF Kaname had a wife in the past that woman it is very possible to have been a progenitor herself i.e. that she possessed superior abilities as well … powers that the current PBs do not have. So even in the extreme scenario that the soul of his past wife could return taking Yuuki’s body that doesn’t mean that the same could happen with the rest of the PBs who have died.

    Because as also you pointed out >>

    I have to say - again - that I thought the same thing to solve my "reincarnation matter", that Jurika really decide to "make new life", but that for PB "making new life" means "reviving in new bodies" the souls of the ancestors. PB's reproduction rules may really be different from human's ones. From this perspective, Kaname jr's death is terrible... but definitely his soul will revive when the right moment comes?

    I agree … if they could do it then they could bring back and the baby Kaname. Here can only play the excuse that the soul of the past wife was a progenitor hence there was a way to do it. But it’s not obligatory that Juuri and Haruka knew who would bring into life either way… it could be the soul who did it… why? Because Kaname was awakened… >> soulmates that were seeking to reunite <3

    There is another clue that could support that this procedure isn’t something that can happen “easily” or that never happened before and that IF it happened is something unique that even Kaname didn’t know how it could happen… >>

    1. If to bring back in life a dead PB was something that all the PBs could do then I think Kaname with his superior powers would have done it IF he had lost his wife tragically in the past.

    2. His talk with Rido at the mausoleum … Rido there rhetorically asking Kaname “what he was waiting in that coffin?” … Kaname denies that he was waiting something but it is apparent that Rido was right on this … he indeed was waiting something even if that hope was tiny and with no guarantee that would come true yet he chose the slumber over an instant death.
    So, what IF Kaname was waiting for his past wife to “return”; basing his little hope only on a premonition of a young vampire girl from the future???
    If so then it proves that EVEN in the case that Yuuki is the reincarnation of his past wife he didn’t know for sure that this could happen hence neither HOW this could happen, making this event unique >.<

    And here’s my fairytale triggered of the fated love that Hino often uses ^^
    Spoiler:

    Firstly I was wondering about the decision that Juuri and Haruka took to reproduce. When they brought to life their firstborn, the baby Kaname, they were nearly 3000 years old. Even for PBs they are considered as old vampires which led me to think that their decision perhaps wasn’t taken lightly but after long thought … due to the conditions of VK world; or even due to the tragedies that the Kuran clan had faced in the past; … they surely had many reasons to think twice about that decision.
    The point is that they gave me the feeling that this decision wasn’t easy for them.
    If so; then the tragic and horrible fate that their firstborn faced and so did they, I think that would have been an additional strong factor which would have made them even more skeptical to give birth to another PB later i.e. Yuuki.
    So; why they took the decision to reproduce again and in fact very soon after their tragedy? >> Could be cuz of Kaname; the awakened ancestor? Because they knew from the very beginning who was that baby that they found beside the empty coffin.
    What I mean is that if they didn’t have Kaname, i.e. if Rido had only killed their firstborn without awakening the ancestor then perhaps they wouldn’t have brought into life a second child. But they did … and not only they did it but they left their child into Kaname’s hands and care…
    And when the young Kaname revealed to Cross his thoughts about sacrificing himself to turn Yuuki again into human … Cross told him that this wasn’t what Juuri and Haruka would have wanted…

    Thus I used to say that Kaname and Yuuki were fated to be together not because it happened to be born as siblings but Yuuki was born exactly because Kaname was there… ^^
    She was born to be his wife not because she was his “sister” but because he was there…
    Now if to all these we add and the metaphysic speculation that Yuuki “came back” to him then we have the perfect love story of two soulmates!


    Not to mention that IF Yuuki is a reincarnated progenitor this could add more reasons as of why she should be protected with extreme measures, keeping her existence secret, or why she was such a target, or even maybe why she could have a unique power, or why Kaname afraid that she can sacrifice herself etc.

    Oh, well, I'll go to the topics you linked to have further infos, thank you!!!!! ;)

    You are welcome Very Happy and if you have time and the appetite you can read Juliet’s fic … it is a great mature story fu fu fu (~_^) (you would fallen in love with Kaname even more!!! If that’s possible hahaha) and it’s based on the reincarnation theory.

    even if a single of it is true,this totally kicks out a zeki ending. Surprised

    me likey sFun_cheerleader2

    very nice explanation and logical much though i am still very much in doubt of a reincarnation in the story.
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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by Duskola on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:16 pm

    nina wrote:Ah I have thought about that too, and you are right on this observation. But even IF Hino would use the reincarnation “trick” or something similar to that (since it is supernatural you never know what mechanism she can think of lol) that doesn’t necessarily means that it is a power or a procedure that ALL PBs can perform, neither Hino is obligated to show that this can happen regularly.

    Where she can base on? >>

    1. That not ALL PBs have the same powers … their abilities varied. For example Shizuka could “manipulate” plants … we saw that she was standing beside a blooming sakura in the middle of winter when she attack at the Kiryuus, but this power was unique… we didn’t see any other PB to do the same. Either way I think it was Aidou who had said very early in the story that only the PBs themselves know their powers hence their abilities differ.

    2. The PBs’ progenitors (like Kaname, HW and ALL the first breed of PBs who appeared 10000 ago) had superior powers than PBs of second, third generation etc. Now we know that only Kaname has left from the progenitors and no one else thus and he is the most powerful being.
    BUT IF Kaname had a wife in the past that woman it is very possible to have been a progenitor herself i.e. that she possessed superior abilities as well … powers that the current PBs do not have. So even in the extreme scenario that the soul of his past wife could return taking Yuuki’s body that doesn’t mean that the same could happen with the rest of the PBs who have died.


    You're right, the past wife of Kaname probably was, together with him, the most powerful of all PB. If we suppose Yuuki is connected/is the reincarnation/is her, this is consistent, because clearly everyone wants to keep her powers secret even to her. This implies that her powers must probably be enormous. If she used these powers for good or for evil in the past, we cannot know. What makes me sad, is mostly the fact that nobody lets her choose completely. That is, protecting her is really a great sign of love. But if she truly is the reincarnation of Kaname's wife, she surely would want to spend her time with him, or to collaborate with him for a better world. She surely put every effort to be born in the exact time when he was alive again. Why should he throw away everything without asking her what she thinks about it? "My dear, you're born again, but now I have to make some difficult decisions. What about making them together?". I know he did something she probably wouldn't forgive (maybe he had to kill her in the past?). But if I was in Yuuki's shoes, and if I had to act until the very end without knowing anything, well. I wouldn't feel very good. This must be a new chance for her. She's not a baby anymore. How can this be a chance of changing their fate, if she remains unaware of her true self? Why everyone has to choose what is best for her? I would be very, very angry for this. I would want to make my own decisions, not to be some sort of unwitting child. Let's hope that from now on she will remember everything and be the strong true ancestor of Kuran's House.

    Spoiler:

    nina wrote:
    Firstly I was wondering about the decision that Juuri and Haruka took to reproduce. When they brought to life their firstborn, the baby Kaname, they were nearly 3000 years old. Even for PBs they are considered as old vampires which led me to think that their decision perhaps wasn’t taken lightly but after long thought … due to the conditions of VK world; or even due to the tragedies that the Kuran clan had faced in the past; … they surely had many reasons to think twice about that decision.
    The point is that they gave me the feeling that this decision wasn’t easy for them.

    Yes, and we know this for sure, as when Rido comes for Yuuki Haruka says this clearly to Juuri, that they thought about it very carefully before deciding to create a new life. And it's true, as you say, that this would justify every precaution they take to keep her secret.

    BUT I would be angry in any case, if I would discover my whole past at 17 and if I knew everyone (my parents, Kaname, Kaien) wa perfectly aware of who I really am. I would understand their wishes, but if my beloved one would decide to do it alone without consulting me - well. I would save him, then give him a good beating. Sgrunt.

    Go Yuuki! >_<°

    Thanks for the topics you reported, @nina, as soon as I'm a bit free from my job @_@ I would surely take a look!!! Very Happy


    P.S.: I thought about this, too. If we suppose that Kaname met his wife AFTER the mirror-in-despair scene. Why should he cry above that mirror, and why he's in Kuran's mansion? So, he must have met her BEFORE both that scene and the memory she sees Yuuki within. BUT if she met her BEFORE. Then why he's grieving for HW's goodbye in that scene? Sob. What a mess ç_ç



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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by Shoujo-Zo18 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:07 am

    Administration Team wrote:What are your theories about Kaname's ancestor past? Is he running out of guilts about something?

    Hmm... My theories about Kaname the ancestors past? I think,and this is just my humble opinion.... that he and the Ancesstress ( or "Hooded Woman" if you will... ) were lovers, and that he has been guilty of letting her die in his place for all of these 10,000 years and that is why he has been doing everything he has been doing.... for her, not for Yuuki. Yuuki was just a distraction... ^^
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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by juliet on Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:29 pm

    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    Administration Team wrote:What are your theories about Kaname's ancestor past? Is he running out of guilts about something?

    Hmm... My theories about Kaname the ancestors past? I think,and this is just my humble opinion.... that he and the Ancesstress ( or "Hooded Woman" if you will... ) were lovers, and that he has been guilty of letting her die in his place for all of these 10,000 years and that is why he has been doing everything he has been doing.... for her, not for Yuuki. Yuuki was just a distraction... ^^

    Just guilts for the ancestor? then why didn't he replaced her long ago? I mean that does not actually blend all the way with his behaviour. I think that he felt guilts in the first place but then she had assigned to him a role and that role became important.

    I do not know though if her awakening was accidental or part of his plan> this would change the view of Kaname's actions entirely, if it was accidental then simply his plan messed up and had to take the responsibility and replace her, if he had planned it then it was in order to be the metal > a more subtle way to kill all purebloods as he said to Yuuki.

    He also told her that Rido's attack that night at the Kuran mansion started it all > if i remember correctly > so that means that he had decided to make a safer world for her and kill all purebloods that night (see and the promise that he gave to her that night while holding her at his arms). I do not know why you guys neglect all of these issues and just put the weight on the ancestor. In order to draw a conclusion you have to bring all pieces together (scattered here and there) and blend them all to get a whole picture.

    So if solely doing it for the ancestor then what about these pages above - Yuuki's words that she is the root- his promise to her and bla bla,,,bla,, ?






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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by Shoujo-Zo18 on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:41 pm

    juliet wrote:
    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    Administration Team wrote:What are your theories about Kaname's ancestor past? Is he running out of guilts about something?

    Hmm... My theories about Kaname the ancestors past? I think,and this is just my humble opinion.... that he and the Ancesstress ( or "Hooded Woman" if you will... ) were lovers, and that he has been guilty of letting her die in his place for all of these 10,000 years and that is why he has been doing everything he has been doing.... for her, not for Yuuki. Yuuki was just a distraction... ^^

    Just guilts for the ancestor? then why didn't he replaced her long ago? I mean that does not actually blend all the way with his behaviour. I think that he felt guilts in the first place but then she had assigned to him a role and that role became important.

    I do not know though if her awakening was accidental or part of his plan> this would change the view of Kaname's actions entirely, if it was accidental then simply his plan messed up and had to take the responsibility and replace her, if he had planned it then it was in order to be the metal > a more subtle way to kill all purebloods as he said to Yuuki.

    He also told her that Rido's attack that night at the Kuran mansion started it all > if i remember correctly > so that means that he had decided to make a safer world for her and kill all purebloods that night (see and the promise that he gave to her that night while holding her at his arms). I do not know why you guys neglect all of these issues and just put the weight on the ancestor. In order to draw a conclusion you have to bring all pieces together (scattered here and there) and blend them all to get a whole picture.

    So if solely doing it for the ancestor then what about these pages above - Yuuki's words that she is the root- his promise to her and bla bla,,,bla,, ?

    So why did Kaname say, "Killing purebloods is her will." Referring to the Ancestress? That is what made me think that everything was not only for Yuuki, but that Kaname had been following a lifelong goal, to fulfill her goal as well. I say that Yuuki was a distraction, because Kaname obviously didn't want to go through that pain again and so he put his all into protecting her, because of the fresh memory in his mind of what had happened to the Ancestress. (His methods of "protecting" aren't what I'd prefer, but that's Kaname ^^;) His "master plan" to protect Yuuki may have begun with Rido, but I think that Kaname re-realized his "Original Plan" when he saw that the world still wasn't safe even after Rido. He needed to rid the world of purebloods as he had originally intended to, and had found a solutiong to by working with the Ancestress to figure out formulas on how vampires could be killed.... "he" was the one who had wanted to become the original metal, but she took his place... Well, he couldn't currently take her place, so he needed to do what he could and kill purebloods by hand, and then when the time was right, by relieving the Ancestress of her position, he planned to "succeed her".



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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by juliet on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:31 am

    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    juliet wrote:
    Shoujo-Zo18 wrote:
    Administration Team wrote:What are your theories about Kaname's ancestor past? Is he running out of guilts about something?

    Hmm... My theories about Kaname the ancestors past? I think,and this is just my humble opinion.... that he and the Ancesstress ( or "Hooded Woman" if you will... ) were lovers, and that he has been guilty of letting her die in his place for all of these 10,000 years and that is why he has been doing everything he has been doing.... for her, not for Yuuki. Yuuki was just a distraction... ^^

    Just guilts for the ancestor? then why didn't he replaced her long ago? I mean that does not actually blend all the way with his behaviour. I think that he felt guilts in the first place but then she had assigned to him a role and that role became important.

    I do not know though if her awakening was accidental or part of his plan> this would change the view of Kaname's actions entirely, if it was accidental then simply his plan messed up and had to take the responsibility and replace her, if he had planned it then it was in order to be the metal > a more subtle way to kill all purebloods as he said to Yuuki.

    He also told her that Rido's attack that night at the Kuran mansion started it all > if i remember correctly > so that means that he had decided to make a safer world for her and kill all purebloods that night (see and the promise that he gave to her that night while holding her at his arms). I do not know why you guys neglect all of these issues and just put the weight on the ancestor. In order to draw a conclusion you have to bring all pieces together (scattered here and there) and blend them all to get a whole picture.

    So if solely doing it for the ancestor then what about these pages above - Yuuki's words that she is the root- his promise to her and bla bla,,,bla,, ?

    So why did Kaname say, "Killing purebloods is her will." Referring to the Ancestress? That is what made me think that everything was not only for Yuuki, but that Kaname had been following a lifelong goal, to fulfill her goal as well. I say that Yuuki was a distraction, because Kaname obviously didn't want to go through that pain again and so he put his all into protecting her, because of the fresh memory in his mind of what had happened to the Ancestress. (His methods of "protecting" aren't what I'd prefer, but that's Kaname ^^;) His "master plan" to protect Yuuki may have begun with Rido, but I think that Kaname re-realized his "Original Plan" when he saw that the world still wasn't safe even after Rido. He needed to rid the world of purebloods as he had originally intended to, and had found a solutiong to by working with the Ancestress to figure out formulas on how vampires could be killed.... "he" was the one who had wanted to become the original metal, but she took his place... Well, he couldn't currently take her place, so he needed to do what he could and kill purebloods by hand, and then when the time was right, by relieving the Ancestress of her position, he planned to "succeed her".



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    yes I agree with all the above, Kaname did find in ancestor's will the way to create a safer world but that does not mean that he did all that he did just to replace the ancestor (meaning he did not do what he did actually for her), living Yuuki aside, whereas we know that he was craving for Yuuki all along (see so many references in the manga).

    I actually think (from a love side point of view) that Kaname had only started to fall in love with WH when she died...then moved on with his existence fulfilling the task that she appointed to him... (i would not say no to a HW- Kaname fanfiction though Razz )

    the family chapter (with who and why he created the Kurans) is still empty - could it be the ancestor?

    still there are no references plus she was against purebloods - so how did she made some more?

    What I mean to say with that is that this kind of bond that Hino gives us about Kaname and HW, does not convince me that it went higher than the bond that he created all these years with Yuuki, otherwise he would not have gone ( I think) and at the trouble of rescuing her.






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    Re: The ancestor theories

    Post by purebloodking_forever on Fri Aug 09, 2013 9:51 pm

    Hiii interesting opinions hereee . i personally think that Yuuki is someone Kaname had 'seen' in his past as a glimpse of the future, he was sure that shes gonna be his first love. That was why he slept for thousands of years just to cure his broken heart because o HW's death, someone he ruly respect and care fore(not romantically) and also with a little hope that there will be someone who will cure his pains and loneliness for thousands of years..not to mention his bloodlust...

    i have another qsn ..might be off-topic..
    We all do know that Kaname is well respected in the vampire society, even the hunters are afraid of him, but what i really wanna know is that whether these nobles knew that he was the ancestor? The progenitor of vampires? or issit because he is merely a kuran. In other words do they know that he is not the original kaname but the awakened ancestor kaname?

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