Zero's hate

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How do you feel about Zero's hate? Is he justified because he has childhood trauma?

Zero's killings are justified since the only vampires he kills are the ones convicted by the association and those that pose a direct threat to humans.. Since he's playing by the rules I don't think his actions are wrong..

As for Kaname, I think we should reserve our judgments until after his plan is revealed. Even though his actions appear wrong at the moment I am sure Hino will come up with a good justification.. So I think all of us should wait for her to enlighten us on what Kaname is planning before labeling him as a cold blooded murderer.. His actions are not justified yet but I personally think they will be soon...

shizza24 wrote:Zero's killings are justified since the only vampires he kills are the ones convicted by the association and those that pose a direct threat to humans.. Since he's playing by the rules I don't think his actions are wrong..

As for Kaname, I think we should reserve our judgments until after his plan is revealed. Even though his actions appear wrong at the moment I am sure Hino will come up with a good justification.. So I think all of us should wait for her to enlighten us on what Kaname is planning before labeling him as a cold blooded murderer.. His actions are not justified yet but I personally think they will be soon...

I do not think that anyone here blames Zero about his job as a hunter, his hate or his intention to kill all purebloods, as he had stated, is the main subject. Now in the latest chapter he said to Kaien that he has no intention of going after Kaname since the scenario of Kaname killing all purebloods fits him. So there it is the simulation between the two (kaname-Zero) that Hino offers; if you codemn Kaname's actions (even at this premature stage), Zero falls with him (perhaps here its even worse since Zero's hate here is confirmed and lacks rational reasoning).
Plus, that can even contradict with Zero's priorities as a hunter and he should chase Kaname for the unjustified killings. So the justification that Zero's actions are legal ceases to exist. For Kaname we do not have an excuse here, so we may give him the benefit of the doubt but for Zero?
Therefore you can not blame the one without the other one, even though Zero's stance is coming far more openly than Kaname's, and if I wanted to drag it here, i would have the ultimate reason.

For Kaname we agree, let's not rush into assumptions. Let's play it safe, LOL.

shizza24 wrote:As for Kaname, I think we should reserve our judgments until after his plan is revealed. Even though his actions appear wrong at the moment I am sure Hino will come up with a good justification.. So I think all of us should wait for her to enlighten us on what Kaname is planning before labeling him as a cold blooded murderer.. His actions are not justified yet but I personally think they will be soon...

the magic word is yet. even if it's look like his actions aren't yet justified, but looking into vampire society, his actions can be justified.

1. vampires who kidnap small children at a master order *the master still unknown
2. at vampire soiree a pureblood vampire was killed by his fiancee with the purpose to gain power
3. later sara is visiting hanadagi to devour his heart and gain more powers
4. humans girls are turned into vampires by a bored pureblood *the same vampire at no 2 and 3
5. young females are kidnap and sold through an auction *master unknown

I am sure hino will explain to us why kaname's doing this, even if that can come after a year hino, have mercy

juliet wrote:

shizza24 wrote:Zero's killings are justified since the only vampires he kills are the ones convicted by the association and those that pose a direct threat to humans.. Since he's playing by the rules I don't think his actions are wrong..

As for Kaname, I think we should reserve our judgments until after his plan is revealed. Even though his actions appear wrong at the moment I am sure Hino will come up with a good justification.. So I think all of us should wait for her to enlighten us on what Kaname is planning before labeling him as a cold blooded murderer.. His actions are not justified yet but I personally think they will be soon...

I do not think that anyone here blames Zero about his job as a hunter, his hate or his intention to kill all purebloods, as he had stated, is the main subject. Now in the latest chapter he said to Kaien that he has no intention of going after Kaname since the scenario of Kaname killing all purebloods fits him. So there it is the simulation between the two (kaname-Zero) that Hino offers; if you codemn Kaname's actions (even at this premature stage), Zero falls with him (perhaps here its even worse since Zero's hate here is confirmed and lacks rational reasoning).
Plus, that can even contradict with Zero's priorities as a hunter and he should chase Kaname for the unjustified killings. So the justification that Zero's actions are legal ceases to exist. For Kaname we do not have an excuse here, so we may give him the benefit of the doubt but for Zero?
Therefore you can not blame the one without the other one, even though Zero's stance is coming far more openly than Kaname's, and if I wanted to drag it here, i would have the ultimate reason.

For Kaname we agree, let's not rush into assumptions. Let's play it safe, LOL.

Well I don't think Zero's choosing not to go after kaname is illegal... Sure it's his job as a hunter to go after dangerous vampires but I think he can choose which of the vampires on the list he wants to hunt down first. so if he chooses to go after vampires other than Kaname then I don't think it is illegal...

And as I stated earlier I don't think we should judge Kaname yet, because his intentions aren't known...

shizza24 wrote:

Well I don't think Zero's choosing not to go after kaname is illegal... Sure it's his job as a hunter to go after dangerous vampires but I think he can choose which of the vampires on the list he wants to hunt down first. so if he chooses to go after vampires other than Kaname then I don't think it is illegal...

And as I stated earlier I don't think we should judge Kaname yet, because his intentions aren't known...

I was referring to the case Zero chooses to ignore or to overview the HA orders, openly for his own benefit ( a part of that intention is already exposed. It would be interesting to see if we would act as such if the HA would press him to chase Kaname and supposedly stop him. Would Zero stand his position or would find a way to go over it?

But the main point is that Zero's ethics here (internal ethics) already agrees with kaname's supposed intentions. So the suspense would be to see, how Zero would deal with such orders and which way would he prefer to go. Hino offers a good twist here, should we expect for more?

@juliet: To say that Kaname's plan benefited Zero is what I was arguing against.
Zero wanted to kill himself in the beginning when he thought that becoming a Level e vampire was inevitable. After Shizuka's death, he started living only for Yuuki (not healthy but it's something) and then no more suicidal thoughts from him until after he found out about his part in Kaname's then Rido's plans. Zero's tragedy was caused collectively by Shizuka, Rido, and Kaname.
Sure Zero got his life in the end but by then he didn't care about it after realizing how prominently it has been played with by purebloods. Kaname is not the source of his tragedy but he played a part in it.

juliet wrote:

shizza24 wrote:

Well I don't think Zero's choosing not to go after kaname is illegal... Sure it's his job as a hunter to go after dangerous vampires but I think he can choose which of the vampires on the list he wants to hunt down first. so if he chooses to go after vampires other than Kaname then I don't think it is illegal...

And as I stated earlier I don't think we should judge Kaname yet, because his intentions aren't known...

I was referring to the case Zero chooses to ignore or to overview the HA orders, openly for his own benefit ( a part of that intention is already exposed. It would be interesting to see if we would act as such if the HA would press him to chase Kaname and supposedly stop him. Would Zero stand his position or would find a way to go over it?

But the main point is that Zero's ethics here (internal ethics) already agrees with kaname's supposed intentions. So the suspense would be to see, how Zero would deal with such orders and which way would he prefer to go. Hino offers a good twist here, should we expect for more?

I think that despite how his mentality works, Zero is always the one who plays by the rules. Even though he openly declared his intention to kill all the purebloods he hasn't taken out even one and that is because he is following the rules and hence would not go on a pure-blood killing spree just because of his hatred. He makes every possible use of the opportunities that arise while still following the rules, f.e. he chose to ignore Kaname because technically not going after him is not illegal since Zero can always involve himself in other assignments. I think if it were a direct order from the HA then Zero would not have defied it just because it didn't suit his purposes. He would have gone after Kaname regardless because not doing so would mean breaking the rules. He would have figured out another way to achieve his goal then..

Snow wrote:@juliet: To say that Kaname's plan benefited Zero is what I was arguing against.
Zero wanted to kill himself in the beginning when he thought that becoming a Level e vampire was inevitable. After Shizuka's death, he started living only for Yuuki (not healthy but it's something) and then no more suicidal thoughts from him until after he found out about his part in Kaname's then Rido's plans. Zero's tragedy was caused collectively by Shizuka, Rido, and Kaname.
Sure Zero got his life in the end but by then he didn't care about it after realizing how prominently it has been played with by purebloods. Kaname is not the source of his tragedy but he played a part in it.

I think that Zero wanted his life after killing Rido, because he is rescued by the level-e nightmare (that would cost him his life) and I do see him with difficulties coping there (due to his story) but I do not see him wanting to commit a suicide (in comparison with the period that he had no hope).

shizza24 wrote:

I think that despite how his mentality works, Zero is always the one who plays by the rules. Even though he openly declared his intention to kill all the purebloods he hasn't taken out even one and that is because he is following the rules and hence would not go on a pure-blood killing spree just because of his hatred. He makes every possible use of the opportunities that arise while still following the rules, f.e. he chose to ignore Kaname because technically not going after him is not illegal since Zero can always involve himself in other assignments. I think if it were a direct order from the HA then Zero would not have defied it just because it didn't suit his purposes. He would have gone after Kaname regardless because not doing so would mean breaking the rules. He would have figured out another way to achieve his goal then..

And that (the bolded part) would have saved Zero's virtue?

To tell you the truth I do not see Zero bothering with Kaname here, because Kaname's actions fit Zero's scenario. Apparently they can be both wrong here or even right (even though the ones intentions are unknown, and the other ones are still wrong but anyway...) and only Yuuki remaining there to save the co-existence. And that makes me wonder how Hino is going to save the day for the two males of VK? because profoundly Kaname needs a solid excuse, and Zero's judgement about his killing desire is wrong with or without official HA's official order.

I know his hatred isn't a good thing but he isn't using it as an excuse for committing evil or bad things so I think Zero's actions are alright since he does not cross the limits laid by rules and the law..