What is wrong with Zero chapter 67? Zero's weakness as a pawn in Sara's plans?

Did you notice how the horses startled at one point when Zero wake up after dreaming Yuuki?

What is wrong with him? I keep associating this image with Hino insistence/hints in showing to us Yuuki's bracelet into several past chapters. Any theories?

I had written ealier about it. I think he needs Yuuki's blood so he is beginning falling into level-E again. Maybe Sara had already realised her plan concerning blood tablets and they are efectless now?

What I do not understand with my simplified logic is that he is a vampire, yes? Yes...Shouldn't the horses been reacting to him in the first place? Probably yes, but as they seem to be trusting or sensing him as being tamed they do not react to his normal vampire presence. So why do they go wild all of the sudden? They sense that he is losing control of himself? I was almost certain before that he will not fall again but after seeing more and more opinions I do realize that we have no certain evidence of that provided by the script. Perhaps Zero is being taken over more and more of his vampire side?

Zero's vampire side might be taking over , in the last chapters you see him gulping so many blood tablets, his like kaname during haruka and juuri's burial (i think).

Do you remember a beast depicted like a shadow at the walls when after Zero had conumed Ichiro and he was leaving the cell? Did you ever wonder what was that?

Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

faih wrote:Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

I had also considered it like a metaphor like how strong he had become after taking Ichiro's blood but now at the stable where the horses are going wild when he goes craving over blood, I am starting thinking that perhaps a part of Zero is like a "beast" indeed so when it takes over him (the human side), the animals sensing the predator that craves over blood startled.
And I actually wonder if that means that Zero is far more vampire or becomes more like a vampire than ever before and Hino tell us in that way that he is indeed imbalanced.

Another point; Do you remember how his hand was trembling when sensing Yuuki at the ball behind the door? Stable vampires purebloods, nobles, even though may not starve do not tremble (unless I do not remember a scene like this..)

juliet wrote:

faih wrote:Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

I had also considered it like a metaphor like how strong he had become after taking Ichiro's blood but now at the stable where the horses are going wild when he goes craving over blood, I am starting thinking that perhaps a part of Zero is like a "beast" indeed so when it takes over him (the human side), the animals sensing the predator that craves over blood startled.
And I actually wonder if that means that Zero is far more vampire or becomes more like a vampire than ever before and Hino tell us in that way that he is indeed imbalanced.

Another point; Do you remember how his hand was trembling when sensing Yuuki at the ball behind the door? Stable vampires purebloods, nobles, even though may not starve do not tremble (unless I do not remember a scene like this..)

yeah, something like that did happen.. here (page14-15): http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=Vampire%20Knight/Vampire%20Knight%20c055/014.jpg&server=nas.html
his hand became agitated when zero was thinking about yuuki touching him there. Maybe it's just the vampire inside him that craves too much about yuuki's blood. i don't know..there's not much information on this subject i think.

I always thought that the part with the trembling hand was as a side effect of having consumed the Kuran's blood (like when holding the Bloody Rose, when Zero turned against Kaname -after killing Rido- and Kaname proved that he could control Bloody Rose) but now that you mention it and I'm thinking it over again, I think you're right...Probably is that he's in the maximum point of craving for Yuuki's blood...and since he isn't a pureblood (like Kaname was) maybe physically he's side effects are worst (than those Kaname had during the 10years Yuuki was away)

faih wrote:
yeah, something like that did happen.. here (page14-15): http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereading/?image=Vampire%20Knight/Vampire%20Knight%20c055/014.jpg&server=nas.html
his hand became agitated when zero was thinking about yuuki touching him there. Maybe it's just the vampire inside him that craves too much about yuuki's blood. i don't know..there's not much information on this subject i think.

Thank you for providing the link Faih , I am starting to think that all this "trembling" and "animals startling" things are hints to show us that Zero does efforts to control his vampire side. I am not sure if that means that he will fall in level e or something but something tells me that when Sara is going to change the tablets we will see Zero in greater trouble trying to control his more "beasty" or "vampire" side...
If this is the case (looks higly like it) then I am afraid that Sara could use Zero as her pawn to consume Yuuki's antivampire powers...and with them she can kill Kaname and all vampires including Yuuki as well.
I am making scenarios I now that, but Zero's trembling and weakness are quite inspiring...Don't you think? Or how else the vampire inside of Zero could be used as a pawn in Sara's plans?

juliet wrote:
Thank you for providing the link Faih , I am starting to think that all this "trembling" and "animals startling" things are hints to show us that Zero does efforts to control his vampire side. I am not sure if that means that he will fall in level e or something but something tells me that when Sara is going to change the tablets we will see Zero in greater trouble trying to control his more "beasty" or "vampire" side...
If this is the case (looks higly like it) then I am afraid that Sara could use Zero as her pawn to consume Yuuki's antivampire powers...and with them she can kill Kaname and all vampires including Yuuki as well.
I am making scenarios I now that, but Zero's trembling and weakness are quite inspiring...Don't you think? Or how else the vampire inside of Zero could be used as a pawn in Sara's plans?

hmmm....I don't think he's falling to level e...He had had blood from 2 Kurans and also Shizuka's blood through Kaname and Ichiro, so he can't fall into level-e. BUT through the whole anime and manga, we keep hearing about the "true dark nature" of vampires (like the things Rido as a vision? told to Kaname in the secter chamber or the beast-vision that has appeared in some chapters). Maybe Kaname is able to control this dark nature because of his experiences through the ages but Zero is a young vampire, not a pureblood as I already said- which makes him more vulnerable, and hasn't been fed for quite a while...I think that all these lead to the conclusion that his "beasty" side as you said, is surfacing...

As for Sara, using Zero would be a very good plan to get to Kaname. Yuuki still has feelings for him and if he was in danger she'd surely go for him....and Kaname would go after her to protect her...So the only thing Sara has to do, is get Zero and the rest will follow!

anna wrote:

juliet wrote:
Thank you for providing the link Faih , I am starting to think that all this "trembling" and "animals startling" things are hints to show us that Zero does efforts to control his vampire side. I am not sure if that means that he will fall in level e or something but something tells me that when Sara is going to change the tablets we will see Zero in greater trouble trying to control his more "beasty" or "vampire" side...
If this is the case (looks higly like it) then I am afraid that Sara could use Zero as her pawn to consume Yuuki's antivampire powers...and with them she can kill Kaname and all vampires including Yuuki as well.
I am making scenarios I now that, but Zero's trembling and weakness are quite inspiring...Don't you think? Or how else the vampire inside of Zero could be used as a pawn in Sara's plans?

hmmm....I don't think he's falling to level e...He had had blood from 2 Kurans and also Shizuka's blood through Kaname and Ichiro, so he can't fall into level-e. BUT through the whole anime and manga, we keep hearing about the "true dark nature" of vampires (like the things Rido as a vision? told to Kaname in the secter chamber or the beast-vision that has appeared in some chapters). Maybe Kaname is able to control this dark nature because of his experiences through the ages but Zero is a young vampire, not a pureblood as I already said- which makes him more vulnerable, and hasn't been fed for quite a while...I think that all these lead to the conclusion that his "beasty" side as you said, is surfacing...

As for Sara, using Zero would be a very good plan to get to Kaname. Yuuki still has feelings for him and if he was in danger she'd surely go for him....and Kaname would go after her to protect her...So the only thing Sara has to do, is get Zero and the rest will follow!

those are very good theories, and i had never thought of them..i agree with the last paragraph, but nothing of these will happen, because kaname will kill Sara beforehand, right?? Right?????
ooh..but it would be good for the plot, so... anyway, i don't thing anything bad is going to happen to the main characters as long as kaname is around..he and zero are going to protect yuuki, kaname and yuuki are going to protect zero, and all will be good! (my girlie-optimistic side came out )

I am really wondering how vulnerable Zero is going to be when Sara changes the tablets...TOO VULNERABLE I THINK!!
They hardly sustain him now that means that if altered nothing but Yuuki's blood will do and then BUMP...
Yuuki has a weak heart and I do not think that when it comes down to salvation she would even think it about sharing her blood with Zero to keep him sane (just imagine that if Zero is assigned to solve Sara's-kaname's case, Yuuki may also follow him around to learn more about the truth behind Kaname's actions and Zero in such a frenzy state will no longer be able to go on with the task appointed to him unless he finds a comfort in Yuuki's blood which blood can be the ultimate purpose of Sara (the anti-vampire power) and perhaps that's where she aims mostly. (otherswise she can not confront Kaname).
Zero's weakness can work indeed in favor of Sara unintentionally of course. Well the continuation if so does sound exciting...
@Faih I really like your girly optimistic side but you said it yourself in a previous post that hunters will be probably after kaname's tail to see what is going on..so I am not seeing him around that much until he goes on and execute his plan...but let's all hope that they will all make it safe to the end...wishful thinking!

faih wrote:Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

That's a nice point of view.
I was wandering why Hino keeps repeating the scene with Zero, stable and Wakaba?

libra wrote:

faih wrote:Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

That's a nice point of view.
I was wandering why Hino keeps repeating the scene with Zero, stable and Wakaba?

Are you hiting towards a Zeri? (Zero-Yori?) direction or something else?

juliet wrote:

libra wrote:

faih wrote:Maybe it was a metaphor. It could mean that Zero, after consuming Ichiro, came closer to his "beast" side..

That's a nice point of view.
I was wandering why Hino keeps repeating the scene with Zero, stable and Wakaba?

Are you hiting towards a Zeri? (Zero-Yori?) direction or something else?

That's a lovely thought... Not that this Zero guy will ever lay his eyes on sweet Yori, but every time I see them, I love the way they look together and I keep wondering why all the fuss from Hino if there's nothing going on there...

Spoiler:

juliet wrote: I am starting to think that all this "trembling" and "animals startling" things are hints to show us that Zero does efforts to control his vampire side. I am not sure if that means that he will fall in level e or something but something tells me that when Sara is going to change the tablets we will see Zero in greater trouble trying to control his more "beasty" or "vampire" side...
If this is the case (looks higly like it) then I am afraid that Sara could use Zero as her pawn to consume Yuuki's antivampire powers...and with them she can kill Kaname and all vampires including Yuuki as well.
I am making scenarios I now that, but Zero's trembling and weakness are quite inspiring...Don't you think? Or how else the vampire inside of Zero could be used as a pawn in Sara's plans?

I suspect Zero is only temporary stabilized as a Level D vampire . Horses could smell humans and vampires as different . Horses hate and fear vampires ( except for a few that appear to be risen since babies near vampires : EX. White Lily ). I think Level D vampires ( ex - humans ) smell as humans to horses . So Zero usually smell as human to the horses . But during the story , sometimes Zero smell as vampire . Probably when he is losing control of himself .Losing the remains of his humanity . Maybe when starting to manifest symtoms of falling to Level E .

It appears Sara needs a vampire hunter at her side . She wants to be the new Vampire Queen . But she can't use anti - vampire weapons . In a fight with another pureblood , the best result she could expect is a draw . In the case of fighting Kaname or Yuuki , she could even die . Her best candidate is Zero . She knows he is a vampire hunter - turned - vampire . She knows he had drank the blood of 2 Kurans' pureblood vampires . So a possibility is Sara offering Zero to help her for a common cause ( Kill Kaname ??????????????? )

mariangie wrote: So a possibility is Sara offering Zero to help her for a common cause ( Kill Kaname ??????????????? )

How I missed your post here? This is quite intriguing...I can only assume that Sara would find a way to use Zero without Zero knowing that Sara is using him...We saw her attempt to lure him and failed, at least at that field Zero I do not think is going to allow her to toy with him.

But with the relatively course of action there are things happening, Kaname is already considered "dangerous" and I suspect that Zero will take the case in order to prove and his hunter/president to be abilities. So Zero will probably work for Sara pointing his attention againts Kaname. Is Sara's plan to generate a dispute between the two men/a war so that Zero kills Kaname on her behalf? It could go so because Zero has already expressed his desire to terminate all purebloods and only asking for a legal reason to do so.
Now Kaname has given him a reason (>what is Kaname really pulling here?)
Anyway you get my point, this course of actions certainly benefits Sara but even so she will have to go under cover to achieve such a plan...

Thanks for the link buddy! sweet..

I feel a little sorry for Zero now.... First Shizuka, then Kaname uses him as a pawn in his own plans to destroy Rido, and now this talk of Sara making 'poor young hunter-san' a part of whatever plan she's contriving....?? Poor guy He just keeps getting used

Well, it's just a matter how you see it...

for me Kaname did not use Zero because, as I have said in the past, I do see Zero's actions (to kill Rido) to be the same even if Kaname was not in the picure. From the moment that Rido was the master mind that led to the death of Zero's parents (through Shizuka), Zero would not let him like that. So when he gets up from that cell he also has his own reasons to kill Rido, apart from Yuuki of course, but since Yuuki is in obvious danger the two motives collide with each other in perfect timing.
In most of the case (to make my point) it is Zero's initial feelings both for his brother's and parents' death and Yuuki that led him in killing Rido and finally protecting (through it) Yuuki and releasing Kaname from Rido.

So in Sara's case again I am thinking the same; that Sara is going to take advantage of Zero's feelings towards purebloods (hate that is, specially for Kaname) in order to benefit herself.

In the first case Zero's feelings played an important role, in reality they were to the advantage of all, it led to good acts...
a). Kaname was released
b) the academy was saved
c) Yuuki was safe
d) it saved Zero from falling to level-e

So there we see that his feelings made good results...

Back to Sara again, Sara's intentions are not good and she does not intend to save anyone, she intends to destroy..
so this time around the reverse needs to happen.
Zero should overcome his feelings so that his physical power won't lead to destructive actions.

It's not in sara's hand I believe, but in Zero's realization to see it, that his feelings can be manipulated to service bad reasons, and stop it. I also believe that Yuuki is the one that can shake him up. He already has started realizing that Yuuki has not change that much as a pureblood...it's a long way but it's a start.

useing some one is useing them, rather they would have dont it on there own or not, rather it was for there own good or for good intentions, kaname used zero and also used the night class as well as the school it's self.
Useing what you need to use to complete your goals is the sign of a good leader, there is no reason to deny him useing people, we all use people even in every day life. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Kaname need a way to protect yuki and to break him self free of rido, he was then shown a means to do so and used that means. It might sound cold but it is logical.
Hell zero needed a means to keep his hunger in check, yuki offered her blood to him to do so, so zero used yuki to keep his hunger in check, even thought she offered and insisted on the matter he was still useing her to fullfill his needs.

rumland wrote:useing some one is useing them, rather they would have dont it on there own or not, rather it was for there own good or for good intentions, kaname used zero and also used the night class as well as the school it's self.
Useing what you need to use to complete your goals is the sign of a good leader, there is no reason to deny him useing people, we all use people even in every day life. It is nothing to be ashamed of. Kaname need a way to protect yuki and to break him self free of rido, he was then shown a means to do so and used that means. It might sound cold but it is logical.
Hell zero needed a means to keep his hunger in check, yuki offered her blood to him to do so, so zero used yuki to keep his hunger in check, even thought she offered and insisted on the matter he was still useing her to fullfill his needs.

Ah..this is a very old debate. Kaname used Zero/did not use Zero, it's turning into a classic one

I do not know if I make my point clear but first is has to do with the kind of meaning you are assigning to the word "used". I have run into a lot of negative meanning.

Anyway, to make my point further clear, what Kaname did with Zero has nothing to do with what Zero did.
Zero is the one whose feelings led him to this actions…so it is irrelevant if Kaname/Yuuki/the nightclass students had a benefit from it which is the effect of his decisions.
But if we say that Kaname used Zero it sounds like Zero was manipulated/handled to act like that from Kaname, in this case, Zero should not even take the credits of his actions since he obviously was led like the children to do something and he was the victim of the story, having no responsibility over his actions.

But I do not see it that way.

If Zero was the victim, he was the victim of his own condition-level e that led him in biting Yuuki and getting attached to her so his feelings later developed stronger than the initial friendship they had.

Kaname had nothing to do with that, what Kaname did was to allow a condition he could not bear but he had to for everyone’s sake.

Zero when dealing with Rido was totally rensponsible/master of his actions. He knew about Yuuki, he knew that she would be leaving with Kaname, he knew that Rido had killed his family and his brother. His feelings led him there. He allowed to his feelings to take over and the decision to kill Rido was instantly born.

And to bring that in the current condition with Sara, it’s the same thing.

Zero’s feelings for purebloods are the A feelings, if someone like Sara (just by pussing him a bit more) can take use and advantage of that feelings to pull her plan against Kaname and Yuuki, Zero will be the victim of his own feelings, not Sara’s in reality. And because of that his solution will be to realize it and control his feelings in order to act as he must. That is of course my opinion.

I agree with rumland. Kaname used Zero and Night Class to realise his own plans. Despite useing people is considered as nothing good, I think in that case he had enough reasons to do that.
Firstly, he didn't use them as a doll which doesn't have own will, but he forecasted their action and he used this knowlege.
Secondly, he didn't hurt anyone due to his behaviour. he saved Yuuki, helped Night Class, did Zero stronger and safe from fall to level-E.
Thirtly, he limited his ruleing of another. Do you remember a scene, when Takuma came to kill his grandfather? Kaname was here but he didn't try to stop Ichijou in spite of fact, he couldn't be sure of result this fight. It would be better for him to revenge Ichijou by himself and keep loyal servant whose Takuma was. But Kaname knew that his friend needed to try for respect himself.

well Kaname's words imply that he used Zero, but his actions didn't.

First he told Yuki this, "If he had taken your blood, he should at least be of some use.."

then to Zero, "You will become Yuki's shield... I know you won't betray her"

Kaname also made Zero drink his blood, but that was to save him so he can continue being pawn. I don't see other options if he didn't drink Kaname's blood except death by insanity. Zero was in a way, then, indebted to Kaname, but Kaname only said Zero should protect Yuki. Anyway, does Zero really need to be told to do that, protect her? He had already been protecting Yuki even before Kaname told him this. The point is Kaname did not use force or powers to control Zero into doing that, because Zero also wanted to do that.

when zero was in the prison cell, kaname went to visit him and told him of his purpose to kill Rido. told. i dont know whether or not he manipulated him, but that doesnt appear to be the case, since after that, ichiru went to visit him and told him he died because of Rido. Zero, enraged, went to avenge his brother, and in the sense, fulfills Kaname's words and his role as his pawn.

There was no external force Kaname applied to Zero so he would be "used". I like to think its more that the circumstances worked well in kaname's favor and his prophecy came true because of that, however in terms of "using" zero in a way that he is forced into being used against his wishes, that is not the case.

It's more like "Zero was used in Kaname's chess game"